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Chuck Smith Stuns Radio Listeners By Encouraging Woman To Abort Baby

Pastor Chuck Smith Stuns Radio Listeners By Encouraging Woman To Abort

Written by Operation Rescue | Posted February 11, 2011

Operation Rescue urges Calvary Chapel’s Pastor Smith to retract his advice and apologize to his listeners

Commentary by Troy Newman and Cheryl Sullenger

Costa Mesa, CA — Pastor Chuck Smith, founder of Calvary Chapel, shocked listeners on Tuesday on his “Pastor’s Perspective” call-in radio program when he encouraged a tearful mother to abort conjoined twins.

The caller, who identified herself as “Nicki from Riverside”, indicated that her babies share a body but have two heads and that she was being pressured by her doctors to abort them due to their assessment that the babies would likely not survive the pregnancy or live beyond a day if carried to term. At no time did Nicki indicate how far advanced her pregnancy was or that her life was in danger from the pregnancy.

Choking back tears Nicki told Smith and his co-host Dan Stewart, “My heart does – never wants to have an abortion, but I don’t know what to do. I don’t know — I don’t know what direction to go to right now. I’m really praying hard and trying to believe that the Lord is going to do what He’s going to do with these two little ones, and I don’t know what to do.”

It is obvious to us, with our combined 45 years of experience working with abortion vulnerable women, that Nicki did not want an abortion but was seeking some spiritual affirmation and encouragement that would help her amidst the pressure from her secular doctors to take the lives of her innocent babies. She got none from Smith and Stewart, who told her that God would not condemn her if she chose abortion.

“It’s awfully hard to actually suggest abortion,” said Smith. “But, you know, I’m sure that, uh, in a case like this where the life expectancy is just, you know, is so bleak, and all, that I’m sure that the Lord would not condemn her if she went ahead and had an abortion at this early stage of the development of the fetus.”

(Audio clip of Feb. 8, 2011, radio conversation)

Smith then went on to misuse the Biblical story found in John, Chapter 8, of the woman caught in the act of adultery and taken to Jesus for judgment. Jesus told the crowd who sought to condemn her, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” After the crowd disbanded in shame, Jesus told the woman, “Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.”

The way Smith used this passage, he was implying that abortion is sin, but that if she went ahead and sinned in this case, God would not hold it against her. There is no basis in traditional Christian theology to support Smith’s misuse of this incident in Scripture. Jesus told the woman to “go, and sin no more,” not to continue her sin with the expectation that God would not hold her to account.

While we respect Chuck Smith’s long service to God and his work in reaching the lost for Christ, his advice to Nicki regrettably showed extremely poor pastoral judgment. His answer was dead wrong, and could lead others to sin and error, along with a life-time of grief and remorse.

The Bible never condones the shedding of innocent blood nor does it allow for the taking of life based on the unfortunate circumstance that someone is sick. Instead, the Bible is full of recommendations to pray and fast for the sick.

Smith and Stewart attempted to “clarify” their advice to Nicki the following day on the Pastor’s Perspective broadcast, but in doing so only made a bad situation worse.

(Audio clip of Feb. 9, 2011, radio “clarification.”)

“I am totally opposed to abortion,” stated Smith. “I believe it is a great sin. I do believe that the 50-plus million children that have been aborted in the United State since the Roe verses Wade is one of the greatest sins of America, and I think that we’re going to be judged for it.”

However, in the next breath, Smith betrays his emphatic pro-life confession.

“I do not believe in abortion as it is being practiced today. However, there can be extenuating circumstances,” Smith continued.

Smith and his co-host then go on to completely mischaracterize the conversation with Nicki the previous day.

We hate to use the word “lie” but there is no other term for what the two pastors said next.

“As the lady said yesterday, the doctors were saying that her life was in jeopardy and carrying the babies, er, uh, baby that is in her womb with two heads, that the baby would not be able to survive more than five minutes after the birth, and that her life was jeopardized by it and she has a little two-year old daughter and I would say in a situation like that with these extenuating circumstances, that God would be gracious and forgiving. But that isn’t endorsing abortion at all…I’m totally opposed to abortion for just any reason, but I believe in being reasonable.”

Smith is speaking out of both sides of his mouth. One cannot say that abortion is justifiable with one breath then say that he is not endorsing abortion with the other. This kind of double-talk only serves to create confusion amongst believers. The Bible is clear; innocent bloodshed is not reasonable, it is sin.

As far as his version of Nicki’s story, the audio recording proves that she never said her life was in jeopardy or that the babies could not survive more than five minutes after birth. She repeatedly referred to her babies in the plural sense.

Smith referred to them as a “fetus” on the first day and later as “a baby with two heads,” language that served to dehumanize the twins in much the same way as abortionists do to justify their actions.

“It wasn’t about a deformity there, it was about something being life-threatening,” said co-host Don Stewart who went on to say that Smith was trying to explain her options in a “lose-lose” situation.

It was grieving to hear Stewart in such an obvious and blatantly deceptive damage-control mode.

Perhaps Smith and Stewart have forgotten that God is the Giver of Life that He alone numbers our days. The two men completely discount any thought that these babies might be given to Nicki and her husband to bring glory to Himself.

Take the example of Abigail and Brittney Hansel, conjoined twins that have been the subject of a special on TLC. Abigail and Brittney share one body.

A YouTube video clip shows them celebrating their 16th birthday, each getting a driver’s license, and discussing the possibility of one day being mothers.

The girls are shown on another video clip answering questions about their condition. “How did you get this way?” one of the girls read off a list. “God made us this way,” answered the other.

Yes, God made them that way, and he made Nicki’s twins the way they are. If God decides to take their lives before birth or decides to give them long, productive lives like the Hansel twins, that is up to Him. It is not up to us to stand in the place of God and dictate the time and matter of death of innocent human beings, created in His image. Scripture calls that murder.

The least Smith and Stewart could have done was refer Nicki to a peri-natal hospice, such as the one operated by Choices Medical Clinic in Wichita, Kansas. Programs like these counsel families facing terminal diagnoses for their pre-born babies. They help the families cope with the stressful days ahead, support families through the grieving process, facilitate healing all the while allowing the families to show their babies dignity and love during their short lives.

Smith and Stewart owe their listeners a true Biblical perspective. We understand that people make mistakes, but when a mistake is made, we expect men of integrity own up to it and to do what they can to make it right. These men owe Nicki and their listeners a retraction and an apology.

Given the devastating consequences that could follow Pastor Smith’s unbiblical response to Nicki’s situation, perhaps he is at a time in his long and illustrious career that he should consider refraining giving further extemporaneous advice on call-in shows like Pastor’s Perspective.

Learn more about Peri-Natal Hospice Programs.

Hat tip to Tim & Terry Palmquist

source:  www.operationrescue.org/

——————-

Calvery Chapel is unfortunately a haven for erroneous teachings and strange going-ons.  But no one seems to ever say anything about them.  Maybe it’s time!

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29 comments to Chuck Smith Stuns Radio Listeners By Encouraging Woman To Abort Baby

  • sylesa

    deborah , i agree whole-heartedly. I think that the key-word here is integrity. Making the error of giving unbiblical advise is one thing, however the deception in covering it up is quite another. Also , he can not pull down with one hand what he is lifting with the other. The bible says that our lives are in Gods hands to decide and abortion is wrong or it isn’t. The bible makes it clear that it is wrong. The fear of man brings a snare every time!

  • Burning Lamp

    There are a lot of Calvary Chapel pastors who follow the straight and narrow. They will soon have a decision to make as the leaven grows and the reputation continues to be tarnished. Old loyalties must give way to loyalty to the Lord above all. There are many ministries that have in the past been solid as the Rock – then they became a part of the Great Apostasy we see in our day.

    It is sad and grievous to acknowledge that ministries we have known and loved and respected no longer deserve our allegiance. But we cannot serve two masters.

  • Burning Lamp

    Sylesa, you said:

    Also , he can not pull down with one hand what he is lifting with the other.

    Such an excellent observation. This is a sign of a double-minded man and the Bible warns against this.

    This has been a fatal flaw here – not wanting to offend someone – not calling out error – being pragmatic – the end justifies the means. It is all human flesh in origin.

    The compassion was clearly there and there was no bad intent, but Satan caused Scripture to be misapplied and bad advice given. We all make mistakes, but it would seem that the folks in charge are not convicted to make it right. There is still time – let’s pray they do the right thing and it is a valuable lesson.

    Any criticism of this action by those who are disturbed by it will probably be perceived as misunderstanding or falsely accusing the brethren and everyone will come out in defense.

    Sadly the enemy has a way of destroying a good work and naturally he will concentrate the hardest on those in leadership influential positions. I am convinced that we do not spend enough time in prayer for our pastors and those in leadership. Instead we come to idolize them and put them on a pedestal. This is doing them a great disservice.

  • Christian man

    I left Calvary chapel (Costa Mesa) years ago over these kinds of double-minded doctrinal stands. For example, I wanted to know the answer to a simple question from them, can I lose my salvation? They wouldn’t answer my question yes or no. Just that I had to “maintain” my salvation. What does that mean? They couldn’t define that either. So I left and went to a place that clearly stated how to get salvation and that it cannot be lost.

    Only later I found that, according to Calvary chapel teaching habits (in a book called “distinctives”), the key to Calvary chapel theology is to not want to offend either side of an argument, so you can reel more people in. But people like myself that actually read the Bible myself and that want a clear answer, will be dissatisfied with Calvary chapel sooner or later. They appear fundamentalist Bible-believing on the surface, but if you dig literally just a hair below the surface, compromise is all over the place with them.

    I was later brought in contact with several others in the same kinds of situations as myself, and here is another woman falling into the same category apparently.

  • sylesa

    Burning Lamp, so true, we do need to pray for our leaders. Maybe this minister will set things right, i hope so because he could be a great source of stumbling for many people. I cannot for my life understand how it is turned upside down, with people getting upset about anybody critisizing false teachings or error. This attitude is demonic and seems to have settled like a fog over the whole world!The scriptures are replete with warnings against false teachers and false doctrine!NOBODY can POSSIBLY read the bible and not see the many warnings given about this. Christ was VERY confrontational with the false teachers of His day, as well as warning His disciples about false teachers. we are told to contend for the faith. Paul withstood Peter to his face!And obviously, Peter being the man of God that he was he repented and got it right and the scriptures show his humble attitude toward Paul when he later writes about him and his writings in 2Peter 3:15-16 when he refers to”our beloved brother Paul” and goes on “As also in all his epistles, speakinging them of these things;in which are some things hard to be understood ,which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION. Seems as if correct doctrine matters and a godly man is able to bear a rebuke! I was a few days ago , reflecting on the times that my heart would be filled with pride and rebellion against what Gods Word was telling me that i was to do in particular situations in my life. I would pray and cry before the Lord and ask Him to help me to want to be willing and help me to be willing to do the right thing. I would tell Him of the pride in my heart, the hypocricy, the unforgiveness, whatever i saw i made no attempt to mitigate my guilt or hide the times when i had unbelief, God knew anyways. But as i cried and prayed, slowly, the Lord would change my heart and a willingness and a desire to do the right thing would come and my heart attitude in the thing that was rebellious would change and i was able to do what God said to do in His Word.I consider myself a very great sinner. Paul said that he was the cheif of sinners but i’m not sure he was.My outward life was not so much so by the worlds standards, but my heart was proud, i looked down on others less fortunate, i was unforgiving and at times hateful, and i know that when the bible says the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked, who can know it… i know and have a sense that in all that i see in my heart , i have never begun to see as God sees and i know that there is more in my heart than i am aware of. I am nobody, but i know how to call sin sin. As i was reflecting on these things , i thought about the “Apostle” from the church that i left. He caught wind of a complaint that he did not have a pastors heart.And on a Sunday morning he gave a sermon practically shouting it “i am NOT a PASTOR, I am an APOSTLE! And i see the pride but it would seem as if both he and his wife see nothing.And now as i sit here typing i am thinking about the apostle Paul who really was an apostle, and his heart. “…That i have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart, for i could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethern, my kinsman according to the flesh” Rom.9:2-3 and again “..My little children, of whom i travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you” How i wish to have a shephard like this! This is a servant heart! I was not raised in the church at all. I total about 7 years of churh in my life. I used to believe that “ministers of the gospel” loved the souls of men and especially those in ther congregation, i supposed. But now i know that this is not true. And it is a horrible knowing.You can’t unring a bell. As for those who oppose speaking against error, they are wiser than Paul who withstood Peter to his face, and are wiser than God who said to beware of false teachers who damn souls .”.Woe unto them who call evil good,and good evil;that put darkness for light,and light for darkness;that put bitter for sweet,and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own site!…”Isaiah 5:20-21 Doctrine matters because God says it does. Sin is sin because God says it is. And there are standards for those in leadership because God says there are. We cannot cloak their failure to rise up to that standard under the cloak that they are human. Indeed they are, and humans make mistakes! But , a man of God ought to be able to take a rebuke and correct it, we don’t lower the standard! Did not God know that they were human when he set the standard? Was not paul human? Peter was human? All the church fathers! Our leaders today, for the most part , are not of the Spirit of our church fathers! And how many WILL NOT speak out against error and false teachings, not to mention the many sheep fleecings!? And why not? Any shepherd that would not contend for the faith when only his reputation is on the line, and not EVEN his life, is no more than a HIRELING! But I see two ironies here. As the standard and quality of the “ministers” falls, their titles are rising! Apostle, SUPER Apostle, Prophet,ugh!And the other irony is this, the sheep such as Deborah and yourself are willing to stand up for truth even when you take abuse for it and even when it is not popular! Courage that the hirelings do not have.As for the above mentioned minister, i hope that he is not a hireling, time will tell. But if so well,excepting the advise he gave the young woman “…the scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses seat: all therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;but do not yeafter their works;for they say and do not” Matt,23:2-3

  • sylesa

    Burning Lamp, sorry for my raving, i am very passionate for true doctrine and for coming against false teachers that i took it all out on the poor pastor at the top of the page,lol!

  • Valerie

    Wow Sylesa,

    Thank you for that powerful testimony.

    Unfortunately since we are all human, we are still deceived in some areas because we do not have perfect knowledge. That is why we need to speak truth to one another and help expose those areas that we have wrong thinking which does not line up with God’s Holy Word.

    But this one thing I know, my righteousness comes only by faith in the shed blood of Christ. Our goal is to seek His truth so that our thoughts become more like His thoughts.

    Blessings,
    By His Precious grace,
    Valerie

  • Burning Lamp

    Christian man, there are many CC pastors who do teach eternal security of the believer and give a very clear Gospel message. There are also rogue pastors who have gone off into error.

    The problem as I see it is that mixed signals are being sent. CC is not a denomination, but a loosely held fellowship. There is no accountability at the top or anywhere. When you have a good pastor who preaches the truth you have a good church. When the opposite is true, you have a mess.

    Too many have crossed over line of respect and made Pastor Chuck an idol without realizing it. By staying in the fold, they are risking coming under delusion.

  • Burning Lamp

    Sylesa, you needn’t apologize for comments about Pastor Chuck Smith. He is a very influential person and he has a duty to hold to the truth. Sadly, it appears that there is no intention to do that if it means backing down and admitting a mistake. And no one within the CC leadership or any pastor will not challenge him out of loyalty and respect and his advanced age. Often the greatest favor one can to for someone is to gently hold them accountable.

  • Christian man

    Burning Lamp, in response to your 5:42pm post, I heard that kind of thing said over and over. It isn’t easy to find a CC pastor that believes in eternal security. If you found one, they are just “disobeying” the distinctives according to CC Costa Mesa. The entire CC movement was built upon doctrinal compromise. That is where Chuck Smith is coming from, based on his own writings.

  • sylesa

    Valerie, you are welcome! Sometimes i look around at all the “spiritual leaders” and i can see what the scriptures say about the REQUIREMENTS of elders and pastors and bishops ect., but for the most part, i don’t see it being displayed. Even though the leaders are human and are capable of making mistakes, they , if they are truly godly leaders would humble themselves and make it right.Peter did. Although we are all in a process of growing and learning, that does not negate the fact that in order for a person to be in a leadership position, he would have to have risen to the reguirements of scripture BEFORE being in leadership. This is not to censure or condemn the leader for being human but rather a protection to those who would follow after these leaders. The leaders are supposed to be of high character. God said this.And when it turns out that they are found not to be such, they need to be removed from leadership. Even though they can repent and be restored to God, that does not mean they can be restored to leadership because now they fail to be without reproach. David(and i know some people may point to David) was the king of Israel, he was not the prophet or priest. And David who showed deep humility and repentance and confession of sin when confronted , was nevertheless disqualified from building Gods House BECAUSE of the reproach of his sin against God and Uriah and Bathsheba. Clearly God forgave his sin, but he was still disqualified.Our leaders in the church today are all that the scriptures predicted they would be , aas well as those who wiil not endure sound doctrine and will follow after them. This pastor Chuck is wrong in what he did, and i hope he makes it right, but i don’t think that he has done something worthy of being removed from leadership according to scripture. I was not referring to him personally, just reading the article made me think about all the false teachers and charlatans in the public and private ministry today. I have struggled spiritually to come to the true knowledge because of hirelings who are not true shepherds of Gods flock , so it strikes at my own heart and gives me a great passion not only to know the Word for myself that i may be kept from deception, but also to expose these things. Thank you for your comment. Are you in the states?

  • sylesa

    Deborah, have you learned anything about that minister that is coming to my area from South Africa? I hope you are feeling well.

  • sylesa

    Valerie, I was also trying to make the point that our leaders ought to be of at least enough humility to admit when they have made a mistake and to call sin sin. Otherwise, how can one stand behind a pulpit and tell us to do it? I’m nobody and i know to call sin what it is in judging my own heart and ways. I may struggle with it , but in my heart ,I know the truth. Leaders LEAD , not SAY only. Thank God salvation is by grace, or i would certainly be undone!!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Sylesa

    Nope, not yet. Been a bit of a slow day today. I will get around it asap.

  • Brian

    Chuck and Don are men and, as such, make mistakes. Did they know that conjoined twins actually could live? It doesn’t appear that they did, or I’m sure they would have given different counsel. It’s pretty obvious to me that their words to Nicki were genuine and they wanted to give the best counsel for everyone involved. Would any of us given Nicki the perfect advice in this tragic situation? I don’t think I could have.

  • Burning Lamp

    None of us has the right to presume to play God with anyone. They should have refrained and told the woman to go with her husband (who was left entirely out of the equation) to speak with a local pastor for advice, someone who knows the family and can provide them with the support they need.If there was no such person in their life they could have spoken with her off air and put in touch with someone in her community who could pray with her and her husband about the situation and seek God’s guidance. This is a matter of life created by God and death here and that is in God’s hands. Certainly this is a most difficult situation. But recently there was a case of conjoined twins who were successfully separated and there are cases where conjoined twins have lived and have come to cope with their situation. If they are believers we know God allowed this for a greater purpose.

  • The issue with the woman on the phone was not that she could not handle giving birth to babies that shared the same body and would most-likely die soon after being born. The issue was that the mother’s life was at risk.

    If you listen to the first audio, you will hear that she fully believed that the babies were going to die and that her own life was in danger. You will hear her allude to this when she says she has a two year old and a husband. And no one else can say what HER doctor told her was wrong, just because there is a video of two joined twins who have lived.

    If the mother’s life was not in danger and the babies inside of her were not dying slow and painful deaths, I would have advised her to have the babies and let that which would happen, happen.

    But because the mother’s life was in danger and the babies were not expected to live, I believe that the issue was if they should risk the mother’s life too. And I believe that it would have been a sin to NOT save the mothers life. Mothers are not called to give their lives for dying babies.

    Also, if the babies were dying a slow and painful death in the mother, I believe it is the loving thing to do, to end the suffering (though I realize that was not the case here).

    It is very important to realize that there is a VERY humane way to separate a baby that is not expected to live, from a mother whose life is in danger if the pregnancy is not ended early. In cases of such medical emergencies, the baby is put to sleep with a shot (in the womb) and does not feel his/her death happen before the taking of the baby happens. It is humane. It is NOT like going into an abortion-on-demand baby-killing clinic and having a baby sucked apart limb by limb till death or burned with a saline solution till death. It is NOT an abortion-on-demand.

    It is a medical emergency, a TRUE medical emergency. And the shame is on any one who judges a mother for such a thing. And I believe that THAT is what Chuck Smith was meaning, when he spoke of the woman’s accusers in the bible. IF it is a sin to end such a pregnancy, that Jesus would not condemn her for it. –However, I do not believe it is a sin, to save a mother’s life and not letting her die too. –It was clear that the mother did not believe that the baby would live long, if at all outside of her womb; and her own life was at risk.

    And one more thing: I don’t believe that Chuck Smith was condoning sinning, because Jesus would forgive a true believer anyway. I think he was meaning, “IF” it was a sin, that Jesus would forgive a true follower of His. –But as I said, I don’t believe it is a sin to save a mother’s life, when the baby is not expected to live anyway.

    Debra…
    “Informing Christians” Journalist

  • Amorette

    To all: Debra sees it from a medical perspective, incorporating her understanding of God’s word – which is what we are supposed to do. Pastor Chuck Smith also made his assessment from a biblical and medical standpoint – both based on the information the caller provided upon calling in! Put yourself in the caller’s shoes, in the babies shoes, in the doctor’s shoes, then speak out, you may find it hard to express an opinion that will impact their lives.
    If all who condemn Pastor Chuck Smith are perfect, then wouldn’t they have given him the same mercy Christ showed every sinner regardless of their sin? Isn’t that what christians are supposed to do? God said to seek His Word for our own edification, plus He will answer if we seek! WE ARE ALL SINNERS AND FALL SHORT. That is why Jesus gave HIS LIFE! For you and me. Finally, if you do not agree with the pastor, do not follow him but also do not disparage his interpretation of God’s Word. It’s juast as valid as yours (don’t forget, he may have many more hours studying God’s Word than you do).
    From just another “less than perfect” forgiven soul striving to go and sin no more.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Amorette

    >> Finally, if you do not agree with the pastor, do not follow him but also do not disparage his interpretation of God’s Word. It’s juast as valid as yours (don’t forget, he may have many more hours studying God’s Word than you do).

    How emergent, (your interpretation is as good as anyone else’s) – there is only 1 correct interpretation.

  • Redeemed

    Those who defend Chuck Smith fail to see that he should have recused himself from the question and referred her to a local pastor who knew the woman and her husband. A radio call-in show is not the place to deal with such matters of life and death which involves spiritual, moral and medical aspects.

    And it could give others the wrong impression or even cause others to stumble.

    This is not the first time that Chuck Smith has rendered unbiblical advice on his “Pastor’s Perspective” radio program.

    For instance when he inferred to a caller that Mormons are Christians and also to another caller that Catholics are Christians and he didn’t even see the need to share the Gospel with his cousin who was a Mother Superior.

    This is not an isolated incident.

  • Larry H

    Wow, Sylesa, Burning Lamp, Christian man and others…you guys must be the reincarnation of the councils of Nicea and Trent rolled into one. You seem to think you have the rulebook and only you understand it – if anyone misses your mark – you are quick to condemn. Do you think these pastors are like the POPE – whatever they say must be directly from God? If this is what you are looking for, then you should join the Catholic Church. There is a lot more you can correct there…I’m sure you will be much happier. What you are trying to do to Chuck is what the people around the woman accused of adultery were wanting Jesus to do to her – condemn her. The radio host did say at the end for her to seek local church help and for the rest of us to pray for her …have you had time to do this, seeing you are so busy correcting Pastor Chuck. Ask yourself if what you are doing is uplifting to the body of Christ or is it self-flattering. Maybe you are seeking your reward here like the Pharisees…but I hope not. This is the first time I have ever written any reply to any post on the internet, but I was just so disgusted with your comments. Jesus did question whether He should cast pearls before swine – I’ll let you interpret that any way you like.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Larry H

    Maybe you need to know more about Chuck Smith see here: http://ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/

  • Maria

    Wow, I read this comments and I cant help to think, how absurd to exchange harsh words over different takes on the late Pastor Chucks advise to this woman. I loved pastor Chuck, because He truly Loved God. And it makes me sad that people who call themselves Christians, (Christ like) would involved themselves in attacking one another. No wonder we are viewed as hypocrites by the world. We are all fallen beings one no better than the other, this is why Christ died for us, because we could never, ever make it on our own to be saved by our own merits. As believers mature ones, we are supposed to know better and be better than the rest of the world, where is the love for one another, where is the compassion and grace God constantly tells us to have. I think one of the biggest problems we have as Christians we constantly compare ourselves to one another instead of comparing our selves to Christ, perhaps if we did more of this we would see we don’t even come close to be what he has commanded us to be. As hard as Pastor Chuck try to follow Christ, he was not perfect and neither are any of you. Do not look up to people, but look up to Christ, because He is the only perfect one, in Him there are no mistakes. So stop criticizing and start praying harder because the time is a lot closer than we started. Jesus is just around the corner, and we better hope we are ready. Love one another as Christ first loved you

  • Marie wrote,

    As believers mature ones, we are supposed to know better and be better than the rest of the world, where is the love for one another, where is the compassion and grace God constantly tells us to have.

    Perhaps you can tell us where the compassion and grace was when Chuck Smith advised a mother to abort her twins. Abortion, my dear, is murder, whether you like it or not. And where is your compassion and grace in the murder (abortion) of two little babies?

    You wrote:

    I think one of the biggest problems we have as Christians we constantly compare ourselves to one another instead of comparing our selves to Christ, perhaps if we did more of this we would see we don’t even come close to be what he has commanded us to be.

    The Bible never tells us to compare ourselves to Christ. We are told to obey Him. (John 14:15; John 15:10) So, where has the love, compassion and grace gone to now when a Pastor tells a mother she can abort her twins. Not only he himself was disobedient but he also instructed someone else to be disobedient. What does God say?

    Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men [and women] so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:19).

    You wrote:

    As hard as Pastor Chuck try to follow Christ, he was not perfect and neither are any of you.

    Jesus never said that we should try to follow Him. He said: “Follow Me.” Period.

    I just love your little sentence “. . . and neither are any of you.” Why didn’t you rather write ” . . . and neither are any of us.” The fact that we are not perfect does not give anyone the right, including you, to pooh pooh sin and least of all to teach others it’s alright to sin – even the most heinous of sins imaginable. I have already shown you what God says in Matthew 5:19.

    Marie wrote:

    Do not look up to people, but look up to Christ, because He is the only perfect one, in Him there are no mistakes.

    Do not look up to people? Really??? Why then did Paul say:

    Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. (1 Corinthians 11:1).

    Dare we follow someone who taught others to abort their babies?

    Marie wrote:

    So stop criticizing and start praying harder because the time is a lot closer than we started. Jesus is just around the corner, and we better hope we are ready. Love one another as Christ first loved you.

    Are you going to pray harder for all the young women and teenage girls who are now going to have their babies aborted without any compunction just because a well-known and popular pastor told a woman she may abort her twins? That’s what happens when you follow the example of someone who gave the wrong advice.

    You wrote:

    No wonder we are viewed as hypocrites by the world

    Yes, Christians are seen as hypocrites by unbelievers of whom some of them have a far higher moral fiber than Christians.

    That’s why the Bible says,

    . . . the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. (Luke 16:8b)

    Me thinks you have a very strange idea of what love, compassion and grace really means.

    And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. (Ephesians 5:11)

    The advice of Pastor Chuck to a women to abort her twins was not from God but a work of darkness.

    This is what it looks like in Krugersdorp. Just about every lamp pole is polluted with these posters. And you don’t see anything wrong with someone advising mothers to abort their babies? You must be kidding me.

    Abortion

    .

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Maria

    Please read all articles on Chuck Smith here – if he was a Christian would he be doing the things he was doing in these articles?

  • John Andrews UK/Ireland

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Maria
    Please read all articles on Chuck Smith here – if he was a Christian would he be doing the things he was doing in these articles?

    These “shepherds” like Chuck Smith and many others have not “come in by the gate”.

    John 10 (NIV)

    10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.”

    This passage rings very true when we listen to a shepherd (preacher/teacher) and our ears pick up a ‘false note’. We are challenged (as is this site) when we speak out against a false teacher (or a compromiser) like Chuck Smith. If we study the bible (as compared to a little knowledge) we should become mature and steadfast. Discernment is one of the higher gifts operating today and is to be sought by all who would earnestly follow Christ, and him crucified.

    We have in “the church” today 3 basic kind of shepherds.

    Firstly, we have those that have been called and out of obedience follow the son of God. They are good shepherds of the flock, ever studying to show themselves approved.

    Secondly, we have the many false shepherds (they call themselves shepherds, apostles and prophets), that have appointed themselves (or their “movement” has pulled them in). I think we would agree that they have “climbed in some other way”? These should be avoided and also called out. We are not to have fellowship with them.

    2 John 1:7-11 ESV

    For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works. ”

    Thirdly, we have “hirelings” that choose “a career path” that is often a “legitimate” choice that is seen as “the right thing to do”. After all my grandfather was a dominee (reverend)? How much good do these (often morally correct) leaders of “a flock” do? Very little and much worse is the damage that they do! They have thus also been identified by our Saviour and Lord and he warns against them.

    John 10:11-13

    11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep”

    It is a good thing to realize that there are many shepherds that fall into the last two categories (many more than the good shepherds).

    May we strive to stay close to the truth, Christ, and Him crucified.

    Why do many follow after bad or false shepherds? They have not known the voice of the “true Shepherd”

    Do not be deceived. It is not insignificant that Jesus said “Very truly I tell you Pharisees”….

  • Maria

    I truly feel sorry for you. I am glad God if the ultimate judge and not you. This is the reason why there are always misunderstanding because people like you take something out of content and run with it. I will not respond again. But again I feel sorry for you. Pray for discernment and God’s love to fill your heart. Jeremiah 17;9 The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who knows how bad it is? 10 But I, the Lord, search all hearts and examine secret motives. I give all people their due rewards, according to what their actions deserve…. God is love, and you might think you are acting in love and righteousness, but you come across as very troubled. Sometimes we become so legalistic we forget who the enemy really is. God be with you, and give you HIS LOVE

  • Maria,

    Please answer me this: Are you OK with anyone, let alone a pastor of a big congregation, encouraging a woman to abort her twins?

  • John Andrews UK/Ireland

    Maria wrote:

    I truly feel sorry for you.(*deleted for space) God is love, and you might think you are acting in love and righteousness, but you come across as very troubled. Sometimes we become so legalistic we forget who the enemy really is. God be with you, and give you HIS LOVE

    Maria: Legalism is one thing, but following a false doctrine is very dangerous. We do show love by studying the Scripture to see if a man like Chuck Smith’s teachings, books and actions conform to biblical principles and sound interpretation of the Scripture.

    Chuck Smith’s actions have been highlighted and his doctrine out of his online teachings and books. He was an energetic man that did a lot of work. However his proclaimed views and teachings are clearly not sound. Something that is 50% truth and 50% false is just not good enough. Error leads the flock astray. Someone who shuts their eyes to a half truth is being led astray.

    He preaches “clouds without water” in that he gives hope in the form of a cloud – but the cloud never rains the “water of life” to quench your thirst. Also preaching love where you make false promises is not love, it is egotistical and dishonest. Did he know he was dishonest? If he was deceived and blind to error he “came in by another gate” and is a false shepherd.

    We cannot preach love where there is no real love. Neither can we preach peace, where there is no peace?

    Jer 6:13-15

    …13″For from the least of them even to the greatest of them, Everyone is greedy for gain, And from the prophet even to the priest Everyone deals falsely. 14″They have healed the brokenness of My people superficially, Saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ But there is no peace. 15″Were they ashamed because of the abomination they have done? They were not even ashamed at all; They did not even know how to blush. Therefore they shall fall among those who fall; At the time that I punish them, They shall be cast down,” says the LORD.…

    Do not be deceived. There are false teachers (check your bible on this – there are many). Have you identified any that do not measure up to God’s standard. If not, why not?

    And yes, we do our best to show true love. If you hurt for a season, but see the light and turn from a wrong path we will rejoice with you………

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