Are Prophets for Today or has Prophecy Ceased?

Deb,

[EDITED by DTW: Removed text not applicable to this topic]

Please read the following information re the GREEK in 1 Cor. 13:8. If you are really looking for truth, then I don’t see how you can deny this important & necessary presentation re the tenses in the GREEK translations.

Here are the definitions of the words in 1 Cor.13:8 for you & your readers in their proper GREEK tenses.

IF THERE ARE TONGUES, THEY WILL CEASE: eite glossai, pausontai; (3PFMI): (1Cor 13:1; 12:10,28, 29, 30; 14:39; Acts 2:4; 19:6 )

Tongues (1100) (glossa) in the NT is used literally to refer to the tongue as a part of the body, and figuratively to refer to speech (1Jn 3:18, in Lxx of Pr 25:25, Pr 31:26) particular languages or dialect as spoken by people group (Acts 2:11 referring to the language of Cretans and Arabs, in Lxx of Ge 11:7 where God confused man’s language at Babel because they had the same language Ge 11:6 and self-centered motives Ge 11:4).

Glossa – 50x in 47v in the NAS – Mk. 7:33, 35; 16:17; Lk. 1:64; 16:24; Acts 2:3f, 11, 26; 10:46; 19:6; Rom. 3:13; 14:11; 1 Co. 12:10, 28, 30; 13:1, 8; 14:2, 4, 5, 6, 9, 13, 14, 18, 19, 22, 23, 26, 27, 39; Phil. 2:11; Jas. 1:26; 3:5f, 8; 1 Pet. 3:10; 1 Jn. 3:18; Rev. 5:9; 7:9; 10:11; 11:9; 13:7; 14:6; 16:10; 17:15. NAS = tongue(25), tongues(25).

Cease (3973) (pauo [word study] from which we get English “pause”) means to cause something or someone to cease from some activity or state and so to come to an end. Paul’s point is that all three of these supernatural gifts (and perhaps other supernatural gifts as well) will eventually become unnecessary, the timing of this cessation being one which is quite controversial (See notes below by David Guzik and the link to John MacArthur which seem to be at opposite ends of the interpretative spectrum regarding cessation of tongues).

Tongues (with the same figurative meaning) are mentioned again in the next chapter 15x in 14verses (1 Cor 14:2, 4, 5, 6, 9, 13, 14, 18, 19, 22, 23, 26, 27, 39)

David Guzik comments on this somewhat controversial section discussing first that…

That which is perfect (in 1Co 13:10) – Paul says when that which is perfect has come, then the gifts will be “discontinued.” But what is that which is perfect? Though some who believe the miraculous gifts ceased with the apostles say it refers to the completion of the New Testament, they are wrong. Virtually all commentators are agreed that which is perfect is when we are in the eternal presence of the Perfect One, when we are with the Lord forever either through the return of Christ or graduation to the eternal. The Greek word for perfect is telos. Considering the way the New Testament uses telos in other passages, it certainly seems to be speaking about the coming of Jesus (1Co 1:8; 15:24; James 5:11; Rev 20:5, 7; 21:6; 22:13).

Many who believe the miraculous gifts ended with the apostles (such as John MacArthur – For Dr MacArthur’s view see his series of sermons on the miraculous gifts) claim since the verb will cease is not in the passive, but in the middle voice, it could be translated, tongues will stop by themselves. Their analysis sounds scholarly, but is disregarded by virtually all Greek scholars.

Even if this translation is correct, it does nothing to suggest when tongues will cease. John MacArthur claims, “tongues ceased in the apostolic age and that when they stopped, they stopped for good.” But this passage doesn’t tell us “tongues will stop by themselves,” and it tells us tongues will cease only when that which is perfect has come.

John Calvin was one who thought the will cease spoke of the eternal state. “But when will that perfection come? It begins, indeed, at death, because then we put off many weaknesses along with the body.” (Calvin)

In his use of will fail and will cease and will vanish away, Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, is not trying to say that prophecies, tongues, and knowledge have different fates. He is simply writing well, saying the same thing in three different ways. They will end, but love never fails.

“There is virtually no distinction between the two Greek verbs that describe the termination of both prophecies and tongues. True, the verb with prophecies is in the passive voice (believers are the implied agents), while the verb with tongues is interpreted as the active voice. The difference is only a stylistic change and nothing more.” (Kistemaker) (David Guzik. The Enduring Word Commentary on 1Corinthians 13)

IF THERE IS KNOWLEDGE, IT WILL BE DONE AWAY: eite gnosis, katargethesetai. (3SFPI): (Jeremiah 49:7; Hebrews 8:13)

Knowledge (1108) (gnosis, root word gnos – see below) in simple terms is the possession of information of what is known. Gnosis describes the comprehension or intellectual grasp of something. Gnosis refers to knowledge gained by experience in contrast to intuitive knowledge. Gnosis is an “experiential knowledge,” and not a mere passing acquaintance.

The English dictionary definition states that knowledge is the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association. It describes an acquaintance with or understanding of something (the NT uses of gnosis most often referring to spiritual/divine knowledge). Knowledge is the clear and certain perception of that which exists. Knowledge describes information and/or skills acquired through experience. Knowledge is that which is or can be known and applies to facts or ideas acquired by study, investigation, observation, or experience.

Gnosis can also stand for the content of what is known or what one knows (as in Ro 2:20, Ro 15:14, 1Co 1:5, 8:1, 7, 10, 11, 2Co 11:6). Some say that gnosis is “fragmentary knowledge” as contrasted with epignosis [word study] (which reflects a fuller participation of the learner in acquiring and “experiencing” the knowledge or gnosis).

The Greek root word is reflected in the basic English word “know” (which is an English form of the root word, gnos). More clearly this root gnos is seen in such words as “ignorance” (of knowing), “agnostic” (one who claims that God is unknowable), and the word Gnosticism which Webster defines as “the the thought and practice especially of various cults of late pre-Christian and early Christian centuries distinguished by the conviction that matter is evil and that emancipation comes through gnosis.” The current “New Age Movement” manifests many of the characteristics of ancient Gnosticism.

The difference between knowledge and wisdom is said to be that knowledge is the understanding of truth, whereas wisdom is the ability to apply what truth has been learned.

The Homan Treasury of Key Bible Words has an insightful comment on the difference between oida (eido) knowledge and gnosis (and the corresponding verb ginosko) knowledge noting that…

The Greeks had two words for knowing, oida and ginosko (the noun form of which is gnosis). Oida, related to the Greek word for “seeing,” denotes “perception” and “absolute knowledge.” Once something is known, it is known for good—nothing can be added to it. ginosko (gnosis) denotes “inceptive and ongoing knowledge.” It designates ongoing, personal knowledge, which implies a relationship between the person who knows and the person who is known (Ed: Which is why many definitions of gnosis refer to it as “experiential” knowledge). (Gnosis) knowledge can grow and mature. By way of illustration, we can “know” (oida) someone’s name immediately, but it will take a lifetime to really “know” (ginosko/gnosis) that person. (Holman Treasury of Key Bible Words: 200 Greek and 200 Hebrew Words Defined and Explained)

Hiebert in his comments on 2Peter says that gnosis

speaks of a practical knowledge that admits of expansion and enables its possessor to discern between right and wrong in facing the duties of life. In order to maintain a balance, practical intelligence and moral insight must govern a resolute and aggressive faith. This knowledge stands over against the spurious “knowledge” of the false teachers (described in 2Peter). The cure for false knowledge is not less knowledge but a knowledge characterized by moral insight. The operation of such knowledge distinguishes the believer’s conduct from his former life in spiritual ignorance (1Pe 1:14-note).

Some scholars state that gnosis is a knowledge which may be concerned with the intellect without affecting the character. Wayne Barber offers a parallel thought in his discussion of the two varieties of gnosis in Scripture, human and spiritual gnosis.

(1) HUMAN GNOSIS (cp GNOSTICISM) = These men were in the church but as 1Jn 2:19 teaches “They went out from us, but they were not really of us”. The Gnostics claimed one could find knowledge apart from God. (and they were right…just check out any encyclopedia.) But the gnosis that directs a believer’s life is found only in God’s Word. This is not to say that we don’t need human gnosis (e.g., instruction on how to drive a car or program your VCR!) but the believer puts a priority on the Biblical variety of knowledge in order to live that they might be equipped to live the Christian life. We need Spiritual Gnosis and/or spiritual revelation from God in order to live this supernatural “Christ” life (Shift the letters in Christian and you have “A” ” “Christ” “In”!). Human gnosis allowed the people to go to church, to not feel bad about sin, not to even have to obey and yet to still be called “religious”! We see this “human gnosis” in many churches today. Another synonym for gnosis is humanism, an ancient “-ism” that has not changed much since the fall of man in the Garden of Eden. Remember that whatever gnosis you are inputting into your mind, will determine the quality of your behavior and conduct. What you believe will show itself in how you behave.

(2) SPIRITUAL GNOSIS = that which comes from knowing and experiencing Christ through obedience to His Word. Remember that the only way you will receive this spiritual gnosis is by being sold out to Him. In John 7:17 Jesus declared that…

If any man is willing (thelema [word study]) to do His will, he shall know (ginosko – know by experience) of the teaching (doctrine = didache [word study]), whether it is of God, or whether I speak from Myself.

This verse teaches a powerful principle: if you ”do” (obey) the teaching, then (and only then) will you really “know” the teaching! How many people do you know that really have spiritual “gnosis”? Be careful! Don’t look at how much a person knows about the Bible. Look at their walk and it won’t take you thirty seconds to determine whether or not they have true spiritual knowledge or whether they are walking in human wisdom.

Here is a Scriptural Example that helps us understand the difference between human and spiritual gnosis. In Philippians 3 Paul had just given his ”pedigree” and warned the Philippians to beware of the dogs, etc and that he put no confidence in the flesh (), although Paul had a right to ”brag” humanly speaking in his fleshly achievements.

Phil 3:8 “More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing (KJV = of the knowledge or gnosis) [Paul is not talking about knowing Him in the sense of experience. He’s talking about the “finished product” of the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. And Paul was no slouch but he was still willing to discount it all for this great value!] Christ Jesus my Lord for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish in order that I may gain Christ…”

What is the principle? Paul counted them lost before he lost them. This is part of the call to be a disciple…they were willing to leave everything to follow Jesus (see Mt 4:20,22, 10:37, Lk 14:27, 14:33) Paul put aside everything in his life for the gnosis or knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. How was he going to get it? By counting everything as loss, by losing it. Then selling out totally to this knowledge, he experienced it as he walked in absolute obedience to Christ. This is a beautiful picture of how you get gnosis….this is something that only comes when you’re walking in the light (the “FM frequency” of Christianity). How many people do you know who are living on the “AM Band”?(Adapted from notes from a lecture by Dr Wayne Barber)

Renn summarizes gnosis as a word that is…

concerned primarily with human knowledge. Lk 1:77; 11:52; Ro 15:14; 1Co 8:7; 12:8 express the knowledge of salvation. Ro 2:20 refers to knowledge gained from the law. Ro 11:33; 2Co 4:6; 10:5 mention human knowledge of God; and 2Co 2:14; Php 3:8; 2Pe 3:18 speak of the knowledge of Christ. A number of references point to knowledge in an unspecified way (e.g., Ro 15:14; 1Cor. 13:2, 8; 2Co 6:6; 8:7; Ep 3:19; 2Pe 1:5, 6). 1Co 14:6 speaks of spiritual truth, and Col 2:3 cites knowledge that is derived from Christ. (Expository Dictionary of Bible Words: Word Studies for Key English Bible Words Based on the Hebrew and Greek Texts)

Vincent (commenting on 1Ti 6:20) states that

Gnosis (knowledge) was the characteristic word of the Gnostic school, the most formidable enemy of the Church of the second century. The Gnostics claimed a superior knowledge peculiar to an intellectual caste. According to them, it was by this philosophic insight, as opposed to faith, that humanity was to be regenerated. Faith was suited only to the rude masses, the animal-men. The intellectual questions which occupied these teachers were two; to explain the work of creation, and to account for the existence of evil. Their ethical problem was how to develop the higher nature in the environment of matter which was essentially evil. In morals they ran to two opposite extremes—asceticism and licentiousness. The principal representatives of the school were Basilides, Valentinus, and Marcion. Although Gnosticism as a distinct system did not reach its full development until about the middle of the second century, foreshadowings of it appear in the heresy at which Paul’s Colossian letter was aimed. It is not strange if we find in the Pastoral Epistles, allusions pointing to Gnostic errors; but, as already remarked, it is impossible to refer these allusions to any one definite system of error” (Word Studies)

Gnosis – 29x in 28v in the NAS (Notice where the majority of uses of gnosis are found! 16x in letters to one church!) – Lk. 1:77; 11:52; Ro 2:20; 11:33; 15:14; 1Co 1:5; 8:1, 7, 10, 11; 12:8; 13:2, 8; 14:6; 2Co 2:14; 4:6; 6:6; 8:7; 10:5; 11:6; Ep 3:19; Php 3:8; Col 2:3; 1Ti 6:20; 1Pe 3:7; 2Pe 1:5, 6; 3:18 and is rendered in the NAS as knowing(1), knowledge(27), understanding way(1).

Luke 1:77 To give to His people the knowledge of salvation by the forgiveness (aphesis) of their sins,

Comment: This context refers to spiritual gnosis regarding salvation, specifically revealing that forgiveness of sins is the heart of salvation. God saves sinner from separation from Him and from eternal hell only by atoning for and forgiving their sins. {For more on forgiveness see studies of the main words – Forgive (grant, freely give, bestow) (5483) charizomai ; Forgive (863) aphiemi; Forgiveness (859) aphesis}

Luke 11:52 “Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key (the correct interpretation of God’s word) of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered (koluo [word study] = cut off, restrained, prevented) those who were entering.”

Comment: This context also refers to spiritual gnosis regarding salvation. Legalistic teaching always takes away the key to this vital gnosis. Not only does legalism keep one from (to extend the metaphor of a “key”) opening the door of salvation initially (Jn 10:9) but also hinders the proper use of the gnosis which is vital to daily living of the supernatural in Christ (2Co 5:7, Gal 5:7, 3:1, 2, 3)

Leon Morris adds that “Instead of opening up the treasures of knowledge, the lawyers closed them fast. They turned the Bible into a book of obscurities, a bundle of riddles which only the experts could understand. And the experts were so pleased and preoccupied with the mysteries they had manufactured that they missed the wonderful thing that God was saying. They neither entered themselves nor allowed others to enter. There were ordinary people on their way to the knowledge of God until these teachers turned them away.” (Tyndale New Testament Commentaries)

Romans 2:20-note a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment (morphosis [word study] = an outline or sketch) of knowledge and of the truth

Comment: Here gnosis refers to “divine” (spiritual) gnosis, knowledge of God’s desire for man as laid out in His law which is “holy and righteous and good.” (Ro 7:12-note)

Romans 11:33-note Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!

Romans 15:14-note And concerning you, my brethren, I myself also am convinced that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge and able also to admonish one another.

MacArthur comments: He is not, of course, speaking of broad human knowledge but of the deep knowledge of God’s truth in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Believers in this church were doctrinally sound. They were well on their way to “attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Himself, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” (Col. 2:2, 3). Virtue and truth, here referred to as goodness and knowledge, are inseparable. (MacArthur, J: Romans 9-16. Chicago: Moody Press or Logos or Wordsearch)

1 Corinthians 1:5 that in everything you were enriched (ploutos = wealth, richness, possessions and gives us our English plutocrat, “a very wealthy person”!) in Him (in Christ), in all speech and all (all that was necessary to live this Christian life = nothing lacking) knowledge,

Comment: Speech refers to outward expression and gnosis refers to inward comprehension. As Albert Barnes says this gnosis refers to “the knowledge of Divine truth. They had understood the doctrines which they had heard, and had intelligently embraced them.” In short, they had apprehended the gnosis which related to “the great and deep things of God”. And since they had “all speech”, they had the . ability which God had given them to communicate this spiritual gnosis to others. This reference to speech and knowledge also alludes to the spiritual gifts with which the Corinthians were so richly endowed (cp 1Co 1:7, 2Co 8:7).

1 Corinthians 8:1 Now concerning things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge (in context this spiritual gnosis refers to an understanding of the true nature of idol worship) makes arrogant (literally “blows up” or puffs up, inflates obviously speaking of one’s pride! The corresponding noun refers to a pair of bellows!), but love edifies…7 However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled….10 For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol’s temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols? 11 For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died.

Comment: We often hear the aphorism “A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.” True but here Paul says that an abundance of “spiritual gnosis” can also be a dangerous thing, for it creates in the “gnosis bearer” a sense of superiority in spiritual matters. To have love without knowledge is not good, but spiritual gnosis without love is equally tragic for it makes one proud and self-satisfied.

John MacArthur has a helpful, pithy comment on the self “inflating” effect of gnosis – The truly well–rounded Christian thinks and acts in two ways: conceptually and relationally. He has the ability to understand biblical truths (Ed: “spiritual gnosis”) and the ability to relate them to people, to himself, and to others. He has knowledge plus love, because love is the medium through which truth is to be communicated. “Speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him, who is the head, even Christ” (Ep 4:15-note). Knowledge by itself brings arrogance, not maturity. Division in the church may be caused by problems of behavior as well as problems of doctrine. When some believers insist on exercising their liberty without regard for the feelings and standards of fellow believers, the church is weakened and frequently divided.

1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;

1 Corinthians 13:2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing….8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.

1 Corinthians 14:6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?

2 Corinthians 2:14 But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and manifests through us the sweet aroma of the knowledge (spiritual gnosis, gnosis of the gospel, the way of salvation) of Him in every place.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge (spiritual gnosis brings supernatural light into a lost person’s soul so that in this context the gnosis alludes to the Good News of Christ, the light of the world Jn 8:12, cp Paul’s experience Acts 8:3, 4, 5, 6) of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

2 Corinthians 6:6 in purity, in knowledge, in patience, in kindness, in the Holy Spirit, in genuine love,

2 Corinthians 8:7 But just as you abound in everything, in faith and utterance and knowledge and in all earnestness and in the love we inspired in you, see that you abound in this gracious work also.

2 Corinthians 10:5-note We are destroying (kathaireo [word study]) speculations (logismos [word study]) and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,

Comment: This is a key verse with which all believers should be fully conversant. The key aspect of this passage is found in the phrase “against the knowledge of God”. Spiritual warfare is not an ethereal battle with unseen demons per se (i.e., not a power struggle), but instead is a truth struggle, a battle over gnosis, the spiritual gnosis of God (as found in the Scriptures) versus the false, lying gnosis (including human gnosis as described above) of the evil one (cp Jn 8:44). Logically, it follows that the “battlefield” for this spiritual warfare is our mind! MacArthur given an added description of specious gnosis noting that “In 1Cor 3:20, he (Paul) called them the useless reasonings of the worldly wise —all the anti-biblical ideologies, false religions, and pseudo gospels spawned by Satan. Paul knew those fortresses well, having lived his entire life before his conversion in one of them. He was a zealous follower of the Judaism of his day, which had turned from its Old Testament roots and become a ritualistic system of works-righteousness.” (2Corinthians Commentary)

2 Corinthians 11:6 But even if I am unskilled in speech, yet I am not so in knowledge; in fact, in every way we have made this evident to you in all things.

Ephesians 3:19-note and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

Wuest comments on the “experiential” aspect of gnosis in the context of this verse writing that…”This love surpasses knowledge, gnosis, “experiential knowledge.”

That is, no matter how much the saint experiences of the love of Christ, yet there are oceans of love in the great heart of God that have not been touched by his experience.

One is reminded of the words of that saint of old who penned the following lines on the walls of his cell regarding the love of God;

Could we with ink the ocean fill,
And were the skies of parchment made,
Were every stalk on earth a quill,
And every man a scribe by trade,
To write the love of God above,
Would drain the ocean dry.
Nor could the scroll contain the whole,
Though stretched from sky to sky. (AMEN!)
(Revel in the words of this great hymn = The Love of God by Frederick Lehman)

The saints are to have an experiential knowledge (gnosis) of the love of God “in order that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.” (Wuest, K. S. Wuest’s Word Studies from the Greek New Testament: Eerdmans or Logos or Wordsearch)

Philippians 3:8-note More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,

Colossians 2:3-note in whom are hidden (Apokruphos means hidden from the common gaze, and therefore secret.) all (no exceptions!) the treasures of wisdom (sophia [word study]) and knowledge.

Comment: The word hidden is apokruphos which means hidden from the common gaze, and therefore secret. The Gnostics (or similar false teachers) in Colossae believed that a great mass of elaborate knowledge was necessary for salvation. That knowledge they set down in their books which they called apokruphos (our English apocrypha) because this gnosis was barred from “ordinary” men. Paul is saying,

“You Gnostics have your gnosis hidden from ordinary people, but Christians also have our gnosis, the difference being that our gnosis is not hidden in unintelligible books but is hidden in Christ and therefore open to all men by grace through faith.”

The truth of Christianity is not a secret gnosis which is hidden but, praise the Lord, a “secret gnosis” which is revealed.

1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called “knowledge ” (false or “anti-God” gnosis)–

1 Peter 3:7-note You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way (According to gnosis = With an intelligent recognition of the nature of the marriage relation), as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.

2 Peter 1:5-note Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,

2 Peter 3:18-note but grow (present imperative = make it the habitual practice of your life to keep on growing) in the grace and knowledge (gnosis) of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (cp Col 2:3). To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Gnosis – 42x in the non-apocryphal Septuagint – 1Sa 2:3; 1 hr 4:10; Esth 4:17; Ps 19:2; 73:11; 94:10; 119:66; 139:6; Prov 2:6; 8:9f, 12; 9:6; 13:16, 19; 16:7; 19:23; 21:11; 22:20f; 27:21; 29:7; 30:3; Eccl 1:16, 17, 18; 2:21, 26; 7:12; 8:6; 9:10; 12:9; Isa 11:2; Jer 10:14; 40:14; 51:17; Dan 2:30; Hos 4:6; 10:12; Mal 2:7

The use of gnosis in Hosea presents an immutable principle highlighting the importance of genuine, Biblical spiritual gnosis…

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge (Lxx = gnosis). Because you have rejected knowledge (Lxx = epignosis), I also will reject you from being My priest. Since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.

Here is another Lxx use of gnosis which presents an immutable, vitally important principle (one that all pastors would do well to carefully heed)…

Malachi 2:7 “For the lips of a priest should preserve (Lxx = phulasso [word study] = to guard as does a military sentry!) knowledge (Lxx = gnosis), and men should seek instruction from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

Compare – Ecclesiastes 12:9 In addition to being a wise man, the Preacher also taught the people knowledge (Lxx = gnosis); and he pondered, searched out and arranged many proverbs.

Here are some other uses of gnosis in the Lxx…

1Sa 2:3 “Boast no more so very proudly, Do not let arrogance come out of your mouth; For the LORD is a God of knowledge (Lxx = gnosis), And with Him actions are weighed.

Psalm 119:66 Teach me good discernment and knowledge (Lxx = gnosis), For I believe in Your commandments.

Spurgeon: Teach me good judgment and knowledge. Again he begs for teaching, as in verse 64, and again he uses God’s mercy as an argument. Since God had dealt well with him, he is encouraged to pray for judgment to appreciate the Lord’s goodness. Good judgment is the form of goodness which the godly man most needs and most desires, and it is one which the Lord is most ready to bestow. David felt that he had frequently failed in judgment in the matter of the Lord’s dealings with him: from want of knowledge he had misjudged the chastening hand of the heavenly Father, and therefore he now asks to be better instructed, since he perceives the injustice which he had done to the Lord by his hasty conclusions. He means to say — Lord, thou didst deal well with me when I thought thee hard and stern, be pleased to give me more wit, that I may not a second time think so ill of my Lord.

A sight of our errors and a sense of our ignorance should make us teachable. We are not able to judge, for our knowledge is so sadly inaccurate and imperfect; if the Lord teaches us knowledge we shall attain to good judgment, but not otherwise. The Holy Ghost alone can fill us with light, and set the understanding upon a proper balance: let us ardently long for His teachings, since it is most desirable that we should be no longer mere children in knowledge and understanding.

For I have believed thy commandments. His heart was right, and therefore he hoped his head would be made right. He had faith, and therefore he hoped to receive wisdom. His mind had been settled in the conviction that the precepts of the word were from the Lord, and were therefore just, wise, kind, and profitable; he believed in holiness, and as that belief is no mean work of grace upon the soul, he looked for yet further operations of divine grace. He who believes the commands is the man to know and understand the doctrines and the promises. If in looking back upon our mistakes and ignorance we can yet see that we heartily loved the precepts of the divine will, we have good reason to hope that we are Christ’s disciples, and that he will teach us and make us men of good judgment and sound knowledge. A man who has learned discernment by experience, and has thus become a man of sound judgment, is a valuable member of a church, and the means of much edification to others. Let all who would be greatly useful offer the prayer of this verse:

“Teach me good judgment
and knowledge.”

Proverbs 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge (Lxx = gnosis) and understanding.

Proverbs 8:10 “Take my instruction and not silver, and knowledge (Lxx = gnosis) rather than choicest gold.

Proverbs 21:11 When the scoffer is punished, the naive becomes wise; But when the wise is instructed, he receives knowledge (Lxx = gnosis).

Charles Bridges comments: The wise, though already taught of God; through his daily teaching thankfully receives increasing knowledge (gnosis). (Pr 1:5.) Among his most fruitful lessons are the instructions of the rod–instructions (mark the difference of the term)–not punishment. Often does the teaching rod seal the teaching law (Ed: the spiritual gnosis). (Bridges, C. Commentary on Proverbs)

Ecclesiastes 2:26 For to a person who is good in His sight He has given wisdom and knowledge and joy, while to the sinner He has given the task of gathering and collecting so that he may give to one who is good in God’s sight. This too is vanity and striving after wind.

Comment: Divine gnosis is a gift of God, bestowed on those who are good, not because they merit it but because God is gracious to give good gifts to His children. The unrighteous “worldly wise” person is devoid of divine spiritual gnosis.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might; for there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol where you are going.

Isaiah 11:2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him, The spirit of wisdom and understanding, The spirit of counsel and strength, The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.

Jeremiah 10:14 Every man is stupid, devoid of knowledge (Lxx = gnosis); Every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; For his molten images are deceitful, And there is no breath in them.

Jeremiah 51:17 All mankind is stupid, devoid of knowledge (Lxx = gnosis); Every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols, For his molten images are deceitful, And there is no breath in them.

Pulpit Commentary notes that this knowledge…

shall be only annulled in the sense of earthly knowledge, which shall be a star disappearing in the light of that heavenly knowledge which shall gradually broaden into the perfect day. (The Pulpit Commentary: New Testament; Old Testament; Ages Software or Logos)

Done away (2673) (katargeo – see above) means that it will be abolished. This however is not knowledge in general (which will become perfect) but the gift of knowledge.

Dear Deborah,

I am NOT claiming, that I have looked at everything. I am refering to your attitude of “I looked at all of this”. And I am NOT saying or insinuating that I am right and you are wrong. I refer to your attitude of you having allegedly “looked at all of this” and you now seem to believe that you are right and everybody else is wrong, who disagrees with you. This is the exact opposite of a humble spirit in my opinion.

Could you please explain your comment: “That will be that day.”

I don’t understand what you mean.

I change my opinion very often and will continue to do so in the future, because I do NOT know everything, not by a long shot. In my experience do people who think they know everything about any specific topic shut out the Holy Spirit to reveal to them further truth.

May God bless you,
Matthias

Matthias, I agree with Debs – dispensationalism is not a trap – it is rightly dividing the Word of God. Without it confusion reigns – with it, there is order and understanding to the Scriptures.

Putting one’s faith in visions is not only dangerous, but foolish. The Lord has given us His Holy Spirit to teach us and lead and guide us through His Word and as we seek Him with all our heart. Remember, Mormonism was established on a vision.

Comment moved too correct topic: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/01/06/the-rapture-an-article-to-knock-your-socks-off/#comment-106797

Comment moved to correct topic: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/01/06/the-rapture-an-article-to-knock-your-socks-off/#comment-106798

Comment moved to correct topic: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/01/06/the-rapture-an-article-to-knock-your-socks-off/#comment-106800

Comment moved to correct topic: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/01/06/the-rapture-an-article-to-knock-your-socks-off/#comment-106803

Eric von Anderseck (leader of cult) – Comment removed due to extreme nature of false teaching – See this article for more info: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/02/28/mystery-christ-blowing-his-trumpet-at-mossel-bay-has-been-identified/

Brilliant! This makes a lot of sense. Thanks for posting.

Hi Deborah, There is NO BIBLICAL passages that refer to cessationism, How would you interpret the whole of 1 Corinthians 14? Paul clearly says to desire spiritual gifts, in v 1, and as for the verse regarding the following,

8 Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].

9 For our knowledge is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect), and our prophecy (our teaching) is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect).

10 But when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and superseded)

Means that when Christ returns and we are made perfect THEN the gifts will cease!

How else is God able to communicate with us? Jesus sent the Holy spirit so we can call upon him to hear God’s voice, That the medium in which we hear God. I know we have the Bible as God’s spoken word, I know the Bible is God’s truth. If what we “hear” from God isn’t matching with scripture we can reject it, if what we receive does match scripture we can accept it.

James ch1v5 says “if any of you lack wisdom let him ASK of God, that giveth to ALL MEN liberally , and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him” (KJV)

So that says God is able to speak to us directly through the holy spirit words of wisdom we ask for. When we are stuck.

If you think all supernatural gifts have ceased then you might as well say the supernatural gift of the holy spirit has creased as well and the supernatural gift of redemption and grace! COME ON! let us use our heads! Ask the Holy Spirit for confirmation, discernment and wisdom!

Let me offer a comment:

For the sake of argument, let’s take the view that the Bible is unclear and so there could be prophets today.

Fine. But if this is the case, we’d expect to see genuine cases where people prophesy things that come true. And we don’t see any, either in church history or the present day.

Ditto for speaking in tongues and healing.

It is a valid and accepted theological approach to use tradition, experience, and reason in situations where we have to choose between multiple possible interpretations of scripture. And this all suggests cessationism. It’s not certain, but it’s more likely than not.

Cessationism, for the sake of Helen, is the view that certain miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit existed to for a short period prior to the completion of the New Testament. It’s got nothing to do with salvation.

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Helen>> Means that when Christ returns and we are made perfect THEN the gifts will cease!BLLLLEEEEEEP! Wrong. That which is perfect is the bible 🙂 read the comments ABOVE where I explain this MORE CLEARLY.

What makes you think that which is made perfect refers to the bible?
That which is made perfect NOT that which is perfect! Made perfect- The Bible is perfect the word of God, so how could it be made perfect? maybe I’m being thick here !

Don’t get all silly and go Wrong blllleeep like a child ! We are adults not childern! Sorry to sound all cranky but I hate it when people do that! It is not necessary. I don’t do it to you!

IF THAY HAVE ENDED THEN WHY NOT EVANGELISTS WHY NOT TEACHERS WE HAVE THE TEACHER THE HOLY GHOST JUST ASKING

The answer to Pastor Mark Chinchen’s comment, which is a fair enough question, is rather simple: because God tells us so in the Bible! The prophets were until John, according to Jesus Himself [Luke 16:16]. Are we going to argue with Him?
I have heard many prophecies given by people claiming to speak for God. I can’t remember one, whether for a single person or the church or the world at large, to come true. As they were spoken in the Name of the Lord, those who spoke them were false prophets.
Benny Hinn set a date when God would destroy all the homosexuals in California. The date he gave passed years ago. California’s still full of homosexuals. Of course, maybe Hinn was actually correct and the rest of us are simply hallucinating. But I don’t think so.
If Jesus said the Law and the Prophets were until John, that’s good enough for me.

Hi All

@Deborah: I am a cessationist, definately, the scripture teaches that the gifts will end, just not at the time you think it will end. Did Paul not write in 1 Cor 1v7 “…that you would come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ”? This text explains the term in 1Cor 13v10. The scriptures cannot contradict itself, and context determines meaning. The text in 1 Cor 1v7 and “until that which is perfect is come” is the same event as both these texts speak of the gifts, and both these texts indicate a time of ceasing, written by the same writer, to the same audience, a couple of chapters apart. It is as if the Holy Spirit through Paul preempts the controversy over the timing of the cessation of the gifts, and gives us the answer in no uncertain terms before the question, so to speak. Don’t you just love the bible!
Now having said that, am I happy about how most misuse the gifts no, but niether was Paul, he never denied the gifts its place, he just wrote what he did to make sure it is done decently and in order. In fact he again says that we should covet to prophecy and forbid not the speaking in tongues (1 Cor 14 v38). And he writes this as a command of the Lord, And what does he say to those who would despise it “Let those who want to be ignorant, be ignorant!” Classic! I love the scriptures!

In Christ
g.

Dear Deborah and dear Martin Horan,
I do not agree with your argument based on your deduction of Luke 16: 16.
« The answer to Pastor Mark Chinchen’s comment, which is a fair enough question, is rather simple: because God tells us so in the Bible! The prophets were until John, according to Jesus Himself [Luke 16:16]. Are we going to argue with Him?…»

Can we discuss this other proclamation made by Jesus when John the Baptist ministry had already ended:
Matt 23:34 — New International Version (©1984)
« Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.»
You also agree with me that the book of Revelation is a book of prophecy, which is not ”less prophetical” than the book of Esaiah.
Yet, my dears, the author of Revelation, John the apostle, lived and exercised this prophetical ministry by the end of the first century, many decades after John the Baptist and Jesus had gone.
Now, tell me how you put Matt 23:34 and the book of Revelation together with what you are claiming !
The shame of our christianity to day, is the fact that people try to teach on topics that they don’t know or know very little.
I was trying to see a bit more into what Deborah wants to teach in her article, but I was suddently choked by the fact that in stead of correcting you Martin Horan, she reacts to your argumentation by saying this:
« Oh yes indeed… :
Luke 16:16 “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.” »

Does Deborah just want people who support her with any kind of argument, or people who present the truth accurately from a profound and consistent knowledge of the topic ?
Please see below, the same verse of Matt 23:34 in almost all the translations: Our lord is clearly calling them PROPHETS, and John the apostle was clearly just one of them. Then, if you are humble, then you will agree that that you need the Holy Spirit to help you understand what the Lord was saying in Luke 16:16.

MATTHEW 23:34

New International Version (©1984)
Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.

New Living Translation (©2007)
“Therefore, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers of religious law. But you will kill some by crucifixion, and you will flog others with whips in your synagogues, chasing them from city to city.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
“Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

International Standard Version (©2008)
“That is why I am sending you prophets, wise men, and scribes. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will whip in your synagogues and persecute from town to town.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Because of this behold, I am sending to you Prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will murder and you will crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and you will persecute them from city to city

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I’m sending you prophets, wise men, and teachers of the Scriptures. You will kill and crucify some of them. Others you will whip in your synagogues and persecute from city to city.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall you scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

American King James Version
Why, behold, I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall you whip in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

American Standard Version
Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:

Douay-Rheims Bible
Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:

Darby Bible Translation
Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes; and some of them ye will kill and crucify, and some of them ye will scourge in your synagogues, and will persecute from city to city;

English Revised Version
Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:

Webster’s Bible Translation
Wherefore behold, I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes; and some of them ye will kill and crucify, and some of them ye will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

Weymouth New Testament
“For this reason I am sending to you Prophets and wise men and Scribes. Some of them you will put to death–nay, crucify; some of them you will flog in your synagogues and chase from town to town;

World English Bible
Therefore, behold, I send to you prophets, wise men, and scribes. Some of them you will kill and crucify; and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city;

Young’s Literal Translation
‘Because of this, lo, I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes, and of them ye will kill and crucify, and of them ye will scourge in your synagogues, and will pursue from city to city;

In Conclusion:
whether there are still prophets today is some other debate. Whether their writings can become part of the holy Bible is out of question. But to say that God has not sent any prophet after John the Baptist and Jesus, this is a misunderstanding of Luke 16:16, creating a clear contradiction with what the above verse in Matt 23:34 says and with the book of Revelation. Yet, I am not saying that all those who claim to be prophets today are prophets.

Can someone please explain the other half of Jesus’ declaration?

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. (Luke 16:16, KJV)

If you’re trying to say that after John the Baptist there were no more prophets, then does that mean there is no more law as well? And if so, then how do you reconcile Jesus’ very next statement as well as what he said in Matthew?

And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. (Luke 16:17, KJV)

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (Matthew 5:18, KJV)

Obviously heaven and earth haven’t yet passed away so…?

Also, how would you tie in the first part of his declaration with the second? Since that time (after John the Baptist), the kingdom of God is preached and every man presses into it?

I happened upon this site through a link.

I must confess that I haven’t read any of David Wilkerson’s prophecies, although I understand that many call him a false prophet. Sound Christian.com/Rapture Ready describe him as an accredited false prophet. I may add that I am NOT a believer in the pre-tribulation rapture.
As I understand the Lord Jesus Christ’s words in Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13 etc, He warns us against deception and false prophets (we have them by the bucket load!). He never once tells us to listen to another prophet.(The canon was closed after the book of Revelation).
As said above God has spoken to us in these last days through the Lord Jesus Christ (Heb 1.2). The book of Revelation penned by John was, as my bible reveals to me God’s last revelation to mankind in this ‘Age of Grace’ or ‘Times of the gentiles’ that we are now in before the coming Day of the Lord and glorious Millennial reign.

We all have access to the Abiding Word of God and we can read the OT Prophets/NT prophetic Word in order to make sense of what is going on in this wicked world-there are many Christians that do this.
God tells us to ‘take heed’ of the prophetic Word- 2 Peter 1.19.

There were false prophets aplenty in Israel of old, how many more are there today in this Christian era?!

If only these self styled ‘prophets and teachers would’ take heed of James 3.1.

Some people set themselves up as God. They think they are always right. They think they know it all.

Hello. I have looked over some of your articles (a lot which are interesting) but couldn’t help but ask for explanations on this one. In the article it says Jesus was the last and greatest, of course I don’t have any problems with him being the greatest but if one looks in acts 13:1 (AMP), it reads “Now in the church (assembly) at Antioch there were prophets (inspired interpreters of the will and purposes of God) and teachers: Barnabas, Symeon who was called Niger [Black], Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a member of the court of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.” This means that there were prophets after Christ’s ascension, of course I still don’t believe that all prophets are real today. Appreciate your intentions and hope you can provide and answer soon. God bless you all.

Debs,
Can you reply to Dr Calvin’s comment http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/01/17/are-prophets-for-today-or-has-prophecy-ceased/#comment-218464.

He is a friend of mine of the pentecostal-charismatic denomination I used to be member of. I sent him this article about the cessation of the offices of apostles and prophets, and he was kind enough to read it and initiate a discussion about it with you and Martin Horan.

Oh, and maybe I can just add the following (same source as above), because it made me think of so much of what I have read and learned here.

I believe that we have caved in to the pressure today of the spirit of tolerance in our society. I really do, I believe we’re afraid! We’re afraid of the world and what they’ll do, we’re afraid of what our family and our friends will say: ‘He’s shoving religion down my throat again’ – and we cave in. We are caught, as the word of God says, ‘in the snare that is the fear of man’. We have listened to the prophets of modern evangelism who tell you not to speak of hell but of a ‘lost eternity’, to speak not of sin but of ‘mistakes’, to preach not the shed blood of Christ but only a ‘giving of a life for others’, to preach not a life of holiness but a ‘life of wholeness and happiness’ – it’s very subtle, isn’t it? But then we wonder why the light isn’t shining into the darkness. God, give us a fearless, fiery, fervent band of preachers and proclaimers and Christians who will resist unto blood, striving against sin!

What impresses me most about all of this is that we are being given just a glimpse of what will be unleashed after the Church is taken out of this world. It is being held back for now and those who believe Christians will go through the GT are underestimating the intense onslaught of evil that will be enjoying full freedom to come out with full force. It is beyond our imagination!

I do believe that many of these messages are subliminal, designed to condition the minds of mankind. It may serve a dual purpose as well – to send signals to those who are “in the know”.

The evil that is to come will most likely have a facade of benevolence in the beginning for those who are in chaos and grasping at straws.
The Bible indicates such.

We are seeing much confusion that seems to be escalating, even amongst Christians. I do think that eschatology is a major key and many have been deceived and detoured away from the truth. How one perceives what the Bible says about endtime events is quite consequential. Not regarding salvation, but in one’s effectiveness as a believer and one’s priorities as we near the end of time as we know it.

Some will see the events described here and be filled with anticipation and encouraged to reach the lost and walk circimspectly before the Lord and be ready for His return. Others will become fearful and filled with dread and seek to prepare in fleshly ways. They may consider the former group as ill-prepared and being set up for destruction. This is part of the endtime confusion of the enemy.

That is not the topic of this thread, but it is related. All I can say brethren and sisteren lol is keep looking up – your Redemption draws nigh. Don’t let anyone rob you of the Blessed Hope.

Prophets do not exist today. The gift of prophecy is active today only to confirm what has been written in the Word of God. In my opinion the office of the prophet would be the modern preacher,teacher and pastor of a congretation which speaks the Word of God according to the SCripture which is the fullfilment of all prophecies.

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Helen

>> Means that when Christ returns and we are made perfect THEN the gifts will cease!

BLLLLEEEEEEP! Wrong. That which is perfect is the bible 🙂 read the comments ABOVE where I explain this MORE CLEARLY.

How do we explain Acts 13 where there are prophets after Christ ascended? Just asking… Maybe I’ve misunderstood…

Debora

You say that the perfect is the Bible?

You also say that there are no prophets, can you please explain Ephesians 4:10-15 then? He gave prophets, apostles, evangelists, pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints and then uses the word Till, so does that not then mean that apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers will be there until we all come unto a perfect man (us)?

Is the perfect that Paul speaks of in 1 Cor 13 not what is referred to in Eph 4:13, we that come to perfection, that we will be like Him, “unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ” a perfect man.

Because then we will see as in 1 Cor 13:12 states – For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I KNOW EVEN AS ALSO I AM KNOWN.

Face to face: when you look into a mirror you see your own face. If Christ is the perfect mirror of God and I see face to face in Him, will I not see who I am in Him. And I will see face to face when I am like Him, “unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ”.

What would be your thoughts on this?

For much of my life I had spoken in tongues and had supported the Charismatic movement, so essentially the office of the prophet had to be for today. I was encouraged by the Holy Spirit to study Gods word for myself. The word of God came alive and it breathed life into my dead brain cells. Oh how I spend many a day crying as I had been one of those many Christians who had spoken in tongues etc. Now I had to go to my family and tell them that i was a phoney and that whatever I had spoken was false. I had accepted all those teachings and now i had to undo years of false teachings. Thats fine as God was in control and when you know God is in control you have that deep inner peace and you smile through it all. The office of the prophet was for the foundation of the church and it ceased once the written Word had been made perfect. One of the issues that helped me put this matter to bed was the issue of prophets. I looked around THE WORLD and saw no fruit of a true prophet and that included Dave Wilkinson who I had once looked upon as a great man of God and he slipped up. He should have been stoned but thats another topic. The men of today who dare call themselves prophets hardly live the live found in the Old Testament that those men of God lived. I had to compare them and there was no comparison. Something was terrible wrong with that picture. So where are the prophets for today and who are they. I could not find one who could fit that bill. We have lowered the standard of Gods word by claiming that prophets are for today and we have stopped fearing God as they did way back. Too often we have been told that God is our “Big Daddy” and he just wants to put us on his lap and give us a big teddy bear hug. Oh no people we have taken the wrong turn in the road. Where is our reverence. Now thinking back when I heard a prophet speak in the church what lacked was that deep deep reverence and too often by the time we had gotten into the car the words of the so called prophet had been forgotten. Why. Because it was not from God. When God speaks he does it through his word and the Holy Spirit. Period. And whats more you will sit up and take notice.

Copied and Pasted…..Students of the Bible face a particular challenge with 1 Corinthians 13:10 where Paul wrote, “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.”
Some suggest that Paul was referring to the second coming of Christ while others say he meant the completion of scripture.

A Church Divided

Let’s begin with an overview of Paul’s letter to the Corinthian church. At the heart of all of their problems was the problem of division. Paul addressed that issue at the very start of his letter (1 Corinthians 1:11). As he continued, he pointed out a number of things which had either led to divisions among them or had been the result of their divisiveness.

For instance, they were divided over favorite preachers (1 Corinthians 1:12). They were divided because of their lack of concern for the poor (1 Corinthians 11:18-20). They were divided by their competition of spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12). Other smaller contentions existed as well.

Aside from their failure to deal with the sin among them (1 Corinthians 5), their core problem was that of division.

A Lesson on Love

Having that in mind, we come to the passage in question. In 1 Corinthians 12, Paul dealt with the issue of spiritual gifts. He taught them that different gifts were given in order that all members of the Lord’s body could function together as one.

It’s not surprising that Paul would next address the importance of love (or charity) in 1 Corinthians 13. First, he taught that those gifts which the Corinthians so valued were worthless without love (1 Corinthians 13:1-3). Second, he explained love (1 Corinthians 13:4-7). Third, he illustrated the supremacy of love (1 Corinthians 13:8-13).

Keep in mind, Paul’s primary objective was to teach the Corinthians to embrace this unifying love. The latter part of the chapter was not meant to be an exception. He wanted them to understand the significance of love as well as their need to grow in understanding and perspective.

Tongues, Prophecy, and Knowledge

Paul said that love will never become inefficient while prophecies will become inefficient, tongues will come to an end, and knowledge will become void (1 Corinthians 13:8). According to verse 10, this will happen when that which is perfect is come.

Perhaps we can already see the difficulty in formulating a timeline based on this passage. Paul encouraged prophecy and discouraged tongues in the very next chapter (1 Corinthians 14:1). In other words, Paul suggested that the end of tongues had come or was coming shortly while there was no end in sight for prophecy. Furthermore, at what point—either after the completion of scripture or after the second coming of Christ—would knowledge become void?

Some insight into the words Paul used there might be helpful. By prophecy, he could have been referring to the gift of divine revelation or he could have been referring to the reiteration of God’s word such as pastors and teachers do today. By knowledge, he used the word, gnosis, which implies a general knowledge as opposed to an intellectual knowledge (epistemon) or a deeper, precise knowledge (epignosis).

Obviously, prophecy by divine revelation came to an end at the completion of the Bible. However, prophecy by reiteration will not come to an end until the second coming of Christ. That term is not particularly helpful in discerning verse 10. Instead, let’s focus on knowledge.

Time to Grow Up

Skipping verse 10 for now, consider what Paul wrote next. In verse 11, he used himself as an example of one who was once childish in his understanding but later became a man. In verse 12, he explained how we do not see clearly but eventually clarity does come. If we consider those verses in light of one another, it is apparent that Paul was talking about growing in maturity.

If the knowledge he spoke of before means a general or basic understanding, then he was simply encouraging the pursuit of epignosis or a far more mature knowledge. As a matter of fact, Paul wrote in the next chapter, “Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men” (1 Corinthians 14:20).

Paul apparently felt that the Corinthians were in need of two basic things: love and a deeper understanding.

That Which is Perfect

Getting back to the verse in question, what is that which is perfect? Perfect is translated from the Greek word, teleios. It could have a variety of implications so context is key to defining it. In the next chapter, as quoted before, Paul wanted them to be men in their understanding. The word, men, was translated from the exact same word as perfect in 1 Corinthians 13:10.

In short, Paul’s statement in verse 10 was relatively vague and likely did not allude to any particular event such as the completion of scripture or the second coming of Christ. He simply meant that once they had grown up in their spiritual understanding, they would see the importance of love and the foolishness of competing with one another in the use of spiritual gifts (especially tongues).

Prophecies would “fail” when their understanding of God’s truth matured. Tongues would “cease” when they grasped the deeper realities of God’s truth. Knowledge would “vanish” as it gave way to a far more profound knowledge of God’s truth.

Does 1 Corinthians 13:10 have any reference at all to the completion of scripture or the second coming of Christ? Perhaps both. The Bible is full of parallel lessons or teachings with a wide array of implications.

I wish to leave this with you.

The church is in trouble as people want the signs and wonders. The bible warned us that this generation seeks after signs and wonders. They want the experience but they don’t want to do the leg work which is to study the word for themselves. Once you begin to study seeking Gods truth the word is opened to you and its like peeling away the many layers. I have had so many “Eureka” moments .

Hello all this is Bible, Gods Word twisting.

All signs all Wonders is valied for today none is ceased, prophecy valied tongues signs wonders etc.

I must warn you what you do here is rejecting Gods Spirit and blashpheme God.

I warned you by email.

Repent.

Dear KC,
When God dwelt with me on the issue of tongues I was ready to receive I was in error so it was easy for me. My husband who had been a pastor did not feel that I was right and I never once argued the point with him and simply handed the matter to the Lord. My husband also began studying tongues and he realised that he had also been deceived. What we see is a counterfeit of the real tongues (language) that once was used for the unbeliever. The Jews alway wanted a sign and so tongues (language) was used for the unbeliever. The tongues we hear in church today is not of God. Satan has tricked the church but the true church has begun to come out of the faith Movement. Did you know that Hindus talk in tongues as do Catholics. Mormons talk in tongues. PLEASE research.

I pray you will receive what I am saying in love as I do not wish to argue but we MUST contend for the faith. I see the apostasty of the church as being tongue talking mixed denominations all becoming one under the New Religion that will come upon the world once the Bride hs been raptured.

As i write I am watching Rodney Howard Brown and his false teaching and I see he prays for the fire over people. Thats judgement. As is the Lake of fire. Amasing how the people flock and cry out to him to be touched. How so very sad. May God have mercy on them as he had with me.

Take care.

YvZ wrote:

I have a question for all people who label themselves prophets or apostles. Who gave them the title of prophet of apostle in these days, how does it happen? Do you just wake up one morning and decide that this is a good day to start being a prophet or apostle? Is it some famous preacher, teacher, evangelist or another prophet who decides that you are also now important enough in the eyes of God to serve as a prophet for Him? Or did God speak in an audible voice? Or is there some kind of institution who gives these titles to people? Just wondering…

The word “apostle” means follower. We should all be followers of or apostles of Christ. As for the prophet part I guess God has to reveal to each of his children who is or isn’t a prophet. God does still speak to those who will listen and a true child of God will always hear the word of God.

Hi Stephen, thanks for your explanation. Hmmm… ok, why is it then that only some people introduce or advertise themselves as an apostle, we are all Christians, should we all give ourselves the title of apostle to proof that we are Christians? Some people make the word apostle sound like a title they earned.

>> God does still speak to those who will listen and a true child of God will always hear the word of God.

I guess I was wrong then thinking I am a born again, Bible reading child of God, as I never hear His audible voice, or found a note somewhere from Him speaking to me, except for the scriptures in my Bible. Or maybe he just speaks to the charismatic, pentecostal, fire calling, faith healing, revival movements, where most of these ‘prophets’ are found.

Another guy said to me, he saw this vision in the sky… (I stopped listening right there, lol).

If someone comes to you and say – You know, God spoke to me today, and said you are now a prophet for Him. Would you really believe them? Why would God not tell you Himself? How do you know if they really serve the same God as you? You might just end up being a prophet for another god.

Nah, I am totally with DTW on this one. There is absolutely no way you can know for sure, that God commanded you to be a prophet – Mat 7:22-23

Another popular title teachers use to advertise themselves these days is Revivalist. Where was someone in the Bible called a revivalist??? Revival for what?

Deborah DTW,

I’ve read through some of your articles and exposition and pretty impress with your insight, and in many things you expound is in line with God’s Word and pretty much a confirmation to what I’ve asked God long ago, and that include all these, prophecy signs and wonders thingy you’ve expound for us. Great. So I’m with you in many of these cases, HOWEVER, it also seemed to dawn on me, sorry to sound offensive t, i can’t help but detect that you seemed to know-it-all when it comes to Biblical Truths. You seemed to have answers for almost every Biblical dilemma /situation….which is ODD if not downright contradictory to God’s Word. Coz for even you yourself has quoted in :

1 Corinthians 13: 9 (Amp)
For our knowledge is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect), and our prophecy (our teaching) is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect).

(scroll up above)

The world is anti-Truth and has ZERO tolerance for complete Truth and whoever that embodies complete Truth (the WHOLE ) is PURE ENEMY of this world and would be already killed /removed. Don’t believe me? Look what they did to The Whole TRUTH 2000 years ago? They nailed Him on the Cross!! The only thing was due to His DIVINE Nature He resurrected and conquered Death.

One can ONLY do that when one have ‘perfect & complete Truth’ which God clearly said none of us humans do. Yes there will be those who will possess more Truths or less Truth (depending on their sincerity to seek the Truth, how long , etc..but none will have complete Truth to have seemingly have answers to every Biblical dilemma / exposition).

So folks, be careful of people who seemed to have answers to every or almost all Biblical dilemma or exposition . I’m not saying they are all out to trap you or malevolent, some are, but some are sincere Christ followers but somehow they have UNINTENTIONALLY gone a bit over their own head without realizing it. Just saying.

Chantal Duvier.

You are the one who is completely wrong because you are reading into a verse which is not there. It is called eisegesis. You wrote:

If we examine Revelation 10:7, the Lord is raising up prophets as we speak for the last days.

“but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.”

He is not raising up prophets in these days as we speak because the sounding of the angel refers to the seventh trumpet which introduces the seven bowl judgments of God’s wrath in Revelation 16. It forms part of the seven-year tribulation with the Antichrist reigning as God over the entire world. The church (Bride of Christ) won’t be here then as she will have been raptured prior to the tribulation. The prophets spoken of here are Old Testamnet prophets whom God inspired to predict the final consummation of the mystery of God. This mystery is not a hidden truth but the final fulfilment of many Old Testament prophecies which refer to Chrit’s Second Advent to the earth (not the Rapture) and the inauguration of his glorious Kingdom of a 1000 years of peace on earth.

So, who gives you the right to command us to remove the article when you are in wrong and not us?