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The General Conversation Section – If You Don’t Know Where to Say it, Say it Here!

Icon Warthog Icon75 The General Conversation Section   If You Dont Know Where to Say it, Say it Here!

GeneralConversationSection T The General Conversation Section   If You Dont Know Where to Say it, Say it Here!
This is the General Conversation Section.

If You Don’t Know Where to Say it, Say it Here!

Under this section you can discuss anything you want.

It can be a Q & A section or a ‘Have you heard’ section…

But please do try and stick to commenting under the relevant Article before commenting here.

 

 

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525 comments to The General Conversation Section – If You Don’t Know Where to Say it, Say it Here!

  • harry

    The concept of God must be defined. Many talks about god but they talk of a very different god. Therefore it is important that we know Him by name. The name of God Most High the one and only.
    Associating God with the Olumpics is bad news.
    The olympics is dedicated to Zeus and he is not Almighty God.
    What is the real name of the Living Almighty Most High God?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    harry

    >> The concept of God must be defined…… therefore it is important that we know Him by name. The name of God Most High the one and only…….What is the real name of the Living Almighty Most High God?

    Nope harry, that’s not the point, Satan will counterfeit everything that God does, he even uses the name of Jesus for his own purposes. You need to be GENUINELY SAVED and receive the Holy Spirit in order to know the REAL GOD OF THE BIBLE. Please read this article which explains how the Biblcal Holy Spirit works compared to the Unholy Spirit Fire.

  • harry

    what I meant here was that all religions talks about “god” but this god is not the same as the Almighty God. We had the case where a Hindu prayed and I knew that he was not praying to the same God who created the heavens. The propblem is others do not know this even if they are Godfearing Christians. Many people are still being deceived becuase of a lack of knowledge. This is one of them. Satan uses the word “god” for all and not the true and holy Name of Him El Elyon.By using “god” he can unite them all under one word or deity. that is why we must educate and pray and teach truth vs satan.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Harry

    Are you caught up in what is called the ‘Hebrew Roots movement’? The premise of the Hebrew Roots movement is the belief that the Church has veered far from the true teachings and Hebrew concepts of the Bible. The movement maintains that Christianity has been indoctrinated with the culture and beliefs of Greek and Roman philosophy and that ultimately biblical Christianity, taught in churches today, has been corrupted with a pagan imitation of the New Testament gospels. Hebrew Rooters have the assumption that the Church has lost its Jewish roots and is unaware that Jesus and His disciples were Jews living in obedience to the Torah.

    >> Yet the Ten Commandments and other laws are still standing.
    They are all repeated in the new Testament by the Apostles.

    What other laws??? Hebrew Rooters involved advocate the need for every believer to walk a Torah-observant life. This means that the ordinances of the Mosaic Covenant must be a central focus in the lifestyle of believers today as it was with the Old Testament Jews of Israel. Keeping the Torah includes keeping the Sabbath on the seventh day of the week (Saturday), celebrating the Jewish feasts and festivals, keeping the dietary laws and learning to understand the Scriptures from a Hebrew mindset. They teach that Gentile Christians have been grafted into Israel, and this is one reason every born-again believer in Jesus the Messiah is to participate in these observances.

    Hebrew Rooters also seem to think that every name in the bible is now not good enough to say in English and must be said in Hebrew…So the name of Jesus is not good enough, it must be Yeshua for instance…hmmm.

    Harry, do you keep the sabbath?

  • The Hebrew Roots movement fall into the track of legalism, a separate area part from the Hebrew Roots Movement is the Sacred name movement or the ebyonites who believe that the name of Jesus is a curruption from the word Zues so when you pray you should pray Yehosua.

    This is rubbish and nothing more then superstitious I had one guy tell me when if you pray to Jesus your praying to Satan.

    Any way I found a good site on this

    The sacred name movement is a religious movement which began in the late 1920s and early 1930s. It grew out of division within the Church of God, Seventh Day.
    The primary and therefore the namesake concern of this movement is both the written and the oral use of the name Yahweh, or one of the other many English forms of the Hebrew name of God. From this emphasis derives the name, Sacred Name Movement.
    While the most popular English form of the Name comes to us as Yahweh (Yahshua for Jesus), in Hebrew Bibles it is hwhy and in early Hebrew manuscripts and engravings, hwhy. By most scholars, it is represented in English as YHWH. By some YHVH.
    For many sacred name people, a secondary concern is the disparagement, in varying degrees, of the name of Jesus. This disparagement extends to Chr_stians and Chr_stianity (sic) for refusing to use the Hebrew only sacred names and for being full of pagan practices.

    ERROR # 1
    THE ORIGINAL PRONUNCIATION OF THE
    TETRAGRAMMATON CAN BE DETERMINED
    WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY.

    Many sacred name teachers believe and very vocally teach that unless one uses the Hebrew name and only the Hebrew name for God, he or she will be eternally damned. It should be noted that not all sacred name teachers are so dogmatic.
    While this exclusive view is taken by most SN teachers, they themselves do not know the original Hebrew pronunciation of God’s name. They admit as much by the variety of names used within the movement and by individuals repeatedly changing the name they hold sacred.
    By some sacred name people, our Creator is called Yah Veh, Yahh, Yahweh, Iahueh, Yahwah, and Yaohu. By others he is spoken of as Yahuwah, Yahuah, and more than a score of even less likely names.
    Jesus is called Yahshua by most sacred name folks. But, more and more are beginning to use Yahushua. By some he is called Yasha, by some Yeshua, by some Yaohushua, by some Y’shua, by some Iahushua, by others Yehoshua, YAHVAHSHUA, and even Yhwhhoshua.
    Confusion! Error!

    ERROR # 1
    THE ORIGINAL PRONUNCIATION OF THE
    TETRAGRAMMATON CAN BE DETERMINED
    WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY.

    Many sacred name teachers believe and very vocally teach that unless one uses the Hebrew name and only the Hebrew name for God, he or she will be eternally damned. It should be noted that not all sacred name teachers are so dogmatic.
    While this exclusive view is taken by most SN teachers, they themselves do not know the original Hebrew pronunciation of God’s name. They admit as much by the variety of names used within the movement and by individuals repeatedly changing the name they hold sacred.
    By some sacred name people, our Creator is called Yah Veh, Yahh, Yahweh, Iahueh, Yahwah, and Yaohu. By others he is spoken of as Yahuwah, Yahuah, and more than a score of even less likely names.
    Jesus is called Yahshua by most sacred name folks. But, more and more are beginning to use Yahushua. By some he is called Yasha, by some Yeshua, by some Yaohushua, by some Y’shua, by some Iahushua, by others Yehoshua, YAHVAHSHUA, and even Yhwhhoshua.
    Confusion! Error!

    JESUS SPOKE THE NAME YAHWEH

    One of the keystone doctrines of the sacred name movement is that our Savior preached and taught the name Yahweh to the Jewish people of his time. One or another sacred name group may say Jesus taught one or another of the numerous possible English transliterations of hwhy. Numbers of sacred name people believe the primary mission of Jesus was bringing the name Yahweh to the world.
    It is supposed that the Messiah spoke this name often to the Jewish people, taught the importance and pronunciation of this name to his followers, said it and read it when he referred to the Old Testament, and used this name when he addressed God. Sacred name teachers boldly assert that Jesus was arrested, tried, and killed because he said the name Yahweh.
    Are these claims true? Did Jesus ever once utter the name Yahweh? Sacred name teachers gamely admit that according to what is written in the Holy Scriptures he did not. However, they believe the Scriptures are wrong.
    Welcome to the sacred name movement.

    ERROR # 5
    THE NAME JESUS ETYMOLOGICALLY
    DERIVES FROM THE NAME ZEUS.

    A long held and regularly used false teaching among more than half of sacred name movement assemblies and individuals is that the Greek word for Jesus means son of Zeus or has a meaning otherwise connected with or derived from the word Zeus. There are a number of variations on this fanciful teaching, a favorite being that Jesus means Healing Zeus.
    It is especially sad to see sacred name converts, who have no idea of the source of their information, promoting this error.
    In spite of the fact that the teaching cannot be backed by research, many in the movement believe it simply has to be true.
    The teaching is purely and simply a lie, a fabrication. This falsehood began in the teachings of some of the pioneer preachers of the movement. It continues among preachers and teachers who are movers and shakers in the movement today.
    This doctrine and its continued propagation epitomize other false teachings of the sacred name movement. Even after it has time and again been proven false, many still cling to it.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Thanks Miguel!

  • harry

    Deborah
    I have my own view on my faith and I do what is expected from me acording to the Word of God. I do not agree with most people and not with the hebrew roots. How sure are you that you are on the right track. After all that I have read here aperson is completely lost if they listen to anyone who does not agree with you.
    I believe God and the Word of God. The whole of the Bible is his laws and commandments and my news for the future. I read and follow that and will lsiten to someone and test it with the word and reject if the word does not agree with it.
    I have no holier than thou image and will not judge anyone on what they preach. I will just reject it and ignore it in the future. The Holy spirit is my teacher and not the views of man.

  • harry

    What is wrong with keeping the Sabbath and what is wrong in keeping Pesach and Sukkot or even any one of the feasts of God. Be carefull what people say is cancelled that is NOT in the Word of God. Paul said that Jew and gentile is one in Messiah. The word of God is clear, if they want to cancel things then so be it. Just do not judge me if I can’t find the cancellation in the Word of God. Each to his own interpretation as well. You interpret it like this they interpret it like that.
    I do agree that there are certain views / interpretations that is far gone and those I will reject because there is written proof that they are wrong.
    I keep the feasts of God not the Jewish feast and I keep Sabbath as it also existed before the Ten Commandments. I do not keep christmas and Easter that is evil days that was taken into the church.pagan worshippers.
    I believe that Jesus Chirst is the son of the Living God and that He died for my sins and for the salvation of the world. I believe that i must be born again and that I must be baptized in water. And so I do.
    If its not in the Bible its not good.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    harry

    >> not with the hebrew roots

    You lie, you do..

    Have you ever read Galations? Do yourself a favour…

  • harry

    You have no right to call me a liar.
    I have notning to do with them and have not been in contact with them.
    I do not know what they teach or preach.
    You do not know me.
    Do yourself a favour and stop judging!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Harry

    Please pay attention, ‘Hebrew Roots’ is not an organisation but a DOCTRINE. What you do, as a GENTILE following JEWISH LAW is termed as Hebrew Root theology.

    Now, I am not judging you Haryy, get a grip of yourself, I am pointing out the facts here. Did you go and read Galations? I bet you didn’t. Let me help you out and point out that just because it’s IN THE BIBLE Harry, as you stated, does not mean you as a Christian now have to DO IT.

    Galatians 3:1-14

    Justification by Faith

    3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

    5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

    The Law Brings a Curse

    10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

    13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”, 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    Now Harry, so you see that as a Gentile you are to BELIEVE BY FAITH? and that you are CURSED if you follow the LAW. Jesus died to FULLFILL the LAW Harry, and you are making a mockery of Him, buy not believing in FAITH but instead following the LAW which JESUS came to fullfill.

    The 10 Commandments are written into our minds and our hearts:

    Hebrews 8:10

    10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

    2 Corinthians 3:6

    6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

    The 10 commandments are written into our hearts Harry when we become children of God… but what about the SABBATH? Well this is very simple to answer Harry in light of what Galations 3 says.

    THIS is the Gospel Truth of the matter:

    1) Jesus Christ kept the Sabbath because HE WAS THE LAW – (Jesus Christ kept the Sabbath because HE, was the Law of the Sabbath.)
    2) Jesus Christ taught the Sabbath by having kept the Sabbath because he was still on earth and Lord of the Sabbath Day on earth.
    3) When Jesus was crucified many miraculous things took place, one of these being that Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law and it was written in our hearts (all 10 commandments)
    4) Jesus became our Sabbath REST in all born again Christians – we do not need to WORK anymore to keep this commandment because the HOLY SPIRIT now abides in each and every born again believer.

    Hence all truly born again believers keep all 10 commandants.

    If you keep the Sabbath Harry, you are dishonoring Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit that abides in you because Jesus is your REST. By keeping any LAW you are in effect saying that you are not interested in the fact that Jesus came to die for you. You prefer the OLD COVENANT, and not the NEW COVENANT that Jesus Christ has given you.

    The bible has some HARSH WORDS for people like yourself Harry, for trying to be a Jew when you are not (READ GALATIONS AGAIN Harry)

    Revelation 2:9

    9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

    Now Harry, the problem here is a big one, because you either have the Holy Spirit ABIDING in you and HE will chastise you, warn you, that what you are doing is wrong and you need to stop and BELIEVE JESUS THROUGH FAITH AND FAITH ALONE. Or you carry on in your ways and follow false doctrine.

    I have given you enough biblical proof, to prove that you are on the wrong track and I SINCERELY PRAY that you listen to the Holy Spirit’s voice on this matter and change your ways, instead of being cursed.

  • Deborah,thanks for revealing these things.We seemingly caught up in things that are designed in such a way that we fit ourselves in,thinking that we know whats happening but only to find that there is hidden agenda to what we have involved our selves in and that we don’t know and don’t want to be a part of it.Sport has chosen as one of the things that unites people.In a South African soccer world cup there was lots of occult signs than u can count,even the death of Mr Mandela’s grand daughter it is said that it was a sacrifice by Mandela to the god of darkness which is satan.So sport is one way of uniting people in error.Thanks again Deborah.

  • harry

    Who said that I am a gentile?
    You do not know me.
    I am blessed not cursed and I am closer to God than ever before.
    I am blessed every day and the Spirit of God abides in me.
    even if the law is written in your heart it is still there.
    Even Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and therefore I honor him by keeping to his sabbath.
    The Holy Spirit protects and keeps me.

    “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (I John 2:4)

    He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.John 14:21
    Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.Rev22:14

    For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus…. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Gal. 3:26,29).

    Rev. 14:12 “Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.”
    I rest my case
    Goodbye
    I am blessed and saved.
    Will not argue with you on this any longer,

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Harry

    Even if you were Jewish Harry, when you get saved you are to MOVE AWAY FROM THE LAW because you now fall under the NEW COVENANT and you are JUSTIFIED BY FAITH – covered by the Blood of Jesus Christ.

    Galations says if you practice one law you need to practice the whole lot, so when are you going to start sacrificing Harry?

    You quote the following scriptures

    “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (I John 2:4)

    He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.John 14:21
    Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.Rev22:14

    Rev. 14:12 “Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.”

    The word commandments here Harry is NOT THE LAW, it’s everything that is contained in the WORD OF GOD, but read in CONTEXT of all scriptures together, not hand picked verses here and there to suit yourself.

    You quote this scripture…

    For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus…. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Gal. 3:26,29).

    When you become a Child of God, you become Abrahams’s seed (this is spiritual) NOT PHYSICAL. You do NOT now become a Jew. You are still a Gentile. There is a terrible theology called REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY that states that every born again Gentile replaces 1 Jew. And that the church today have the right to Jerusalem because the church is Israel. This is utter garbage to say the least.

  • Lis Jensen

    I don’t understand, that so many Christians are following the Catholic trend now. Not the belief, but the trend, like Icons, Lectio Devina etc. Do yuo have something about that?

    Blessings,
    Lis Jensen,
    Denmark.

  • Paul

    Hi Liz.
    It is not so surprising considering the Ecumenical movement and TV Evangelists. Also, when the protestant churches were formed, they still clung and still cling to many R.C. beliefs and trends.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hi Lis

    This is the trend, becuause all religions (including Pentecostals and Charismatics) will lead back to Rome in the Last days (and we are in those Last Days). Read this article about the Vaticans Evangelization plan to convert Pentecostals and Charismatics to Chatholics without them even knowing it. The New Evangelical – Evil fit for a New Dark Age And then you have the Emergent movement who sneaky sneaky brought in things to the church such as Prayer Stations, Lectio Devina, Labyrinths, and much more to snare the Christian into the practice of mystic practices. Then you also have this unholy FIRE that they call down from heaven in pretty much all Pentecostal and Charismatic churches that is being transferred to people at churches and included in this FIRE you hear a lot lately about people speaking about the ‘heart of God’ – well this is all Catholic and this unholy spirit that is falling on people is going to lead people right back to Rome when Rome finally takes it’s stand with iron teeth and forces itself on the world at being the only world Religion. See this article for all the details: The Biblical Holy Spirit vs.The False Unholy Spirit of Fire

  • Vincent

    I have just finished reading an article on The Berean Call, they are addressing the very same issue=P
    I see a trend of a separation of believers becoming more steadfast and the uncertain falling by the wayside into the lost catagory.
    Sola Scripture

  • michael

    Topics are often been innundated with irrevelavent data…or so it seems but most of my comments have been aimed at the main core of all spiritual problems. One of them of them has been sadly neglected but it is indeed one of the most important and that is the question of divorce. Such an important subject that the church has got it it all wrong despite the fact that the Saviour Himself gave very clear instructions and so did Apostle Paul. This is a subject that is paramount to all believers and sadly been neglected with the result of far reaching spiritual problems. A topic that should in this context be addressed very sternly and aggresively.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Michael

    You are absolutely right, maybe I will do an article on that one soon :)

  • Poully

    [deleted]

  • Paul (Continue in His Word)

    Hello Debs,

    I listened to a preacher the other day preach that Hell (the litteral hell the Bible speaks about) is in the Core of planet earth (inner/outer core). He went on to say that the lava and gas that come out of volcanic eruptions are actually hell fire from the core of earth.
    Of course he gave full proof with Bible verses and such. I left very puzzled as I am not fully convinced. I will re-listen to the sermon and I will post his Bible references here. I need to study the subject by myself and let the HS guide me into the truth about IS THE PHYSICAL LOCATION OF HELL REVEALED IN SCRIPTURE AND IF YES, WHERE IS IT SITUATED ?

    Paul

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Paul

    That is a good question. Is the physical location of hell revealed in scripture… I have no idea, it’s not something I have looked into.

    Please post that guys bible references, because it would be interesting to see.

  • Marion

    I want to know…who’s the guy? That will tell a lot!

  • Paul (Continue in His Word)

    Sequel of my above comment about Volcanoes and Hell :

    I want to say that this preacher is a beloved brother. Yet this does not mean that he cannot be in error, in which case we need to approach him with love and point his error (if it is the case) so that he will correct it and not spread it. Until a person is found to be a wolf in sheep’s clothing (ie a false brother), I believe we should not expose his errors and name him in public without having contacted him and given him the opportunity to explain and/or correct himself.

    Here are the 8 KJV references this preacher used to prove his doctrine of Hell being in the core of planet earth:

    #1 Isaiah 14:9-15
    (9) Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
    (10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
    (11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
    (12) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    (13) For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    (14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
    (15) Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

    #2 Pro 15:24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

    #3 Deu 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
    (Note: “Set on fire the foundations of the mountains” is interpreted as volcanic eruptions)

    #4 Isaiah 5:14-15
    (14) Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
    (15) And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:

    (Note: Hell is ever enlarging itself to contain the multitudes who die without Christ)

    #5 Ezekiel 31:14-18
    (14) To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.
    (15) Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him.
    (16) I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
    (17) They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
    (18) To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord GOD.

    (Note: “the nether parts of the earth” means “the heart of the womb of the earth”)

    #6 Numbers 16:30-35
    (30) But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.
    (31) And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them:
    (32) And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.
    (33) They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
    (34) And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also.
    (35) And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense.

    #7 Luke 16:19-26
    (19) There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
    (20) And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
    (21) And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
    (22) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
    (23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
    (24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
    (25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
    (26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

    #8 Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

  • Kate Akele

    Nice addition! What’s your opinion on ‘eyewitness’ accounts of those who ‘went’ to hell and back? it’s slightly on the rise here in Naija and the surprising thing is, these accounts match despite the time line and the different geographical locations. Just curious!

  • Hanelie

    Sadly, despite the vast amount of very useful information available here, I am still deeply saddened by what I see here.

    I have to agree with Paul’s opening sentence above. Humans, and that includes Christians, will get things wrong sometimes. Even those who have been given authority by God. Luckily, though, we (all born-again Christians) have the Holy Spirit to teach us right from wrong. After all, Scripture teaches us not to trust princes (Ps. 145:3) and that we need no teacher other than the Holy Spirit:

    “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, HE WILL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and bring to your remembrance all things that I have said to you.” (John 14:26)
    “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH …” (JOHN 16:13)

    Lastly, I would like to know how discernment is defined here? I seem to see so many references to study and research that it almost appears as if that is the basis of it (but that might be a skewed impression)?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hanelie

    Firstly I am sure Paul is speaking about a genuine Christian who is preaching on something that will not affect ones FAITH or SALVATION etc. There is a difference between someone preaching blatant false teaching and following a completely different gospel other than the one preached by Jesus Christ, to making a slight mistake on something very very small.

    >> Lastly, I would like to know how discernment is defined here?

    Discernment comes by the Holy Spirit and Holy Spirit only.

    John 14:26; “But the Comforter, who is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”

    John 16:13; “However, when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.”

    Are we to study to find ourselves approved? Be like the BEARENS were who studied the scriptures day and night?

    2 Timothy; 2:15 “Study to show yourself approved to God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Acts 17:11; “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

    Everyone on this website that has been exposed, have been exposed because their entire doctrine, everything they believe in is false, not just a little bitty bit of it that needs correction. No their entire beliefs are twisted around a false gospel and they are preaching this false gospel to thousands of other people, and leading multitudes to hell.

    There is a new kinda love today and it is one that says that “Brotherly love goes deeper than doctrine”, that we must all just accept each others views and then hug each other and hopefully someone will change – but to which side no one knows. We all know which way the world is heading so one can clearly make a bet and say the huggers will succumb to the Emergent way of love and unity and it’s false teaching very quickly.

    Genuine LOVE is preaching the gospel truth and nothing but the truth to those in serious error, and they will fight and shout and kick and scream, but it if they refuse to listen, (John 3:20; “20 For everyone that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.” ) it shows that there is no light in them. As for the people who listen to the false teachers and prophets that need to hear the truth, the same goes for them. Many are caught up in a trap and need a way to escape and reading the truth about the teachings of their so called prophet or Apostle has helped many get on their knees and seek Jesus Christ in earnest.

    What does the bible say we must do about these people who are causing such harm to the body of Christ?

    Mark Them Which Cause Division

    Romans 16:17-18 “17Now I beseech you, brethren, MARK THEN which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.”

    Do Not Tolerate Wicked People

    Revelation 2:2-3 (Amp) “2 I know your industry and activities, laborious toil and trouble, and your patient endurance, and how you cannot tolerate wicked [men] and have tested and critically appraised those who call [themselves] apostles (special messengers of Christ) and YET ARE NOT, and have found them to be IMPOSTORS AND LIARS. 3 I know you are enduring patiently and are bearing up for My name’s sake, and you have not fainted or become exhausted or grown weary.”

    1. Clearly tells us we are not to tolerate wicked men
    2. Clearly tells us we are to TEST (1 John 4:1-6)
    3. Clearly tells us we are to CRITICALLY APPRAISE
    4. Jesus warns us about these so called ‘apostles’ who are nothing but liars and impostors.
    4 We are told to MARK those who cause division (Romans 16:17-18)

    As Christians We Must Judge Righteously

    As Christians we do not judge a person’s life, i.e., sin, because we are all sinners (Matt 7:1)., we judge righteously according to the Word of God. The Bible commands us to judge fellow Christians teachings and their fruit. Those in the church we are to judge according to the Word of God. Those outside of the church we show them the error of their ways, preach the gospel to them and then leave them in God’s hands. We are also commanded to judge/test their teachings/doctrine to make sure it is correct and that it ties up with scripture.

    There are many verses in the bible where we are told to JUDGE/TEST:

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 (Amp); “21But test and prove all things [until you can recognize] what is good; [to that] hold fast.”

    Matthew 7:15-20 (Amp); “15Beware of false prophets, who come to you dressed as sheep, but inside they are devouring wolves. 16You will fully recognize them by their fruits. Do people pick grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17Even so, every healthy (sound) tree bears good fruit [worthy of admiration], but the sickly (decaying, worthless) tree bears bad (worthless) fruit. 18A good (healthy) tree cannot bear bad (worthless) fruit, nor can a bad (diseased) tree bear [excellent fruit [worthy of admiration]. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire. 20Therefore, you will fully know them by their fruits.”

    1 Corinthians 5:12-13 (Amp); “12What [business] of mine is it and what right have I to judge outsiders? Is it not those inside [the church] upon whom you are to pass disciplinary judgment [passing censuring sentence on them as the facts require]? 13God alone sits in judgment on those who are outside. Drive out that wicked one from among you [expel him from your church].”

    1 Corinthians 14:29 (Amp); “29 So let two or three prophets speak [those inspired to preach or teach], while the rest pay attention and weigh and discern what is said.”

    John 7:24 (Amp;) “24Be honest in your judgment and do not decide at a glance (superficially and by appearances); but judge fairly and righteously.”

    Titus 1:9-16 (Amp;) “9He must hold fast to the sure and trustworthy Word of God as he was taught it, so that he may be able both to give stimulating instruction and encouragement in sound (wholesome) doctrine and to refute and convict those who contradict and oppose it [showing the wayward their error]. 10For there are many disorderly and unruly men who are idle (vain, empty) and misleading talkers and self-deceivers and deceivers of others. [This is true] especially of those of the circumcision party [who have come over from Judaism]. 11Their mouths must be stopped, for they are mentally distressing and subverting whole families by teaching what they ought not to teach, for the purpose of getting base advantage and disreputable gain. 12One of their [very] number, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, hurtful beasts, idle and lazy gluttons. 13And this account of them is [really] true. Because it is [true], rebuke them sharply [deal sternly, even severely with them], so that they may be sound in the faith and free from error, 14[And may show their soundness by] ceasing to give attention to Jewish myths and fables or to rules [laid down] by [mere] men who reject and turn their backs on the Truth. 15To the pure [in heart and conscience] all things are pure, but to the defiled and corrupt and unbelieving nothing is pure; their very minds and consciences are defiled and polluted. 16They profess to know God [to recognize, perceive, and be acquainted with Him], but deny and disown and renounce Him by what they do; they are detestable and loathsome, unbelieving and disobedient and disloyal and rebellious, and [they are] unfit and worthless for good work (deed or enterprise) of any kind.”

    1 John 4 (Amp); “1BELOVED, DO not put faith in every spirit, but prove (test) the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.”

  • Hanelie

    Thank you for the detailed response to my question, Deborah.

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Firstly I am sure Paul is speaking about a genuine Christian

    That is what I had assumed too.

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    There is a difference between someone preaching blatant false teaching and following a completely different gospel other than the one preached by Jesus Christ, to making a slight mistake on something very very small.

    But, when is it very, very small, and when not? When Paul was corrected by Peter, was his mistake very, very small? Or could it possibly have mislead the Jewish believers? If it was so small (as to insignificant), why did Paul correct him publicly? If we want to be technical about it, Peter was “teaching and following a completely different gospel other than the one preached by Jesus Christ”, but did that make him a false prophet (apostel)? Surely not.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hanelie

    Small in my mind would be for instance, where is hell? I mean, where is hell… if it’s in the middle of the earth our out somewhere in the universe it does not matter. Will it mislead people into believing an entirely false gospel? Well that all depends on who is doing the preaching and what the rest of his ‘beliefs’ look like. If he distorts what hell is and who it’s meant for etc, then we need to wave a big red flag. Now please I am using this example of ‘where hell is” as an EXAMPLE. I have not ‘studied to show myself approved’ on this subject (I am busy researching it at the moment) so don’t know the answer as yet, it could very well be a major issue and lead off into a whole other doctrine I am unaware of – and I am sure there is just someone out there who is just waiting to jump down my throat because of this.

    So, going back to your first comment you said, “I am still deeply saddened by what I see here……..Humans, and that includes Christians, will get things wrong sometimes.” and now your second comment, “But, when is it very, very small, and when not? When Paul was corrected by Peter, was his mistake very, very small?……If it was so small (as to insignificant), why did Paul correct him publicly?”

    I’mmmmmmm just a little confused as to what you are trying to ask me. You are giving me mixed messages.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Ahhh Hanelie

    I thought I knew you from somewhere…your ‘mixed message’ spirit was easy discernible.

    You have commented on this blog before and gave me a hard time.

    7 Comments here: as-christians-we-must-judge-righteously, — here you tell me that I should not call out false teaching
    4 comments here: unconditional-election-and-total-depravity-are-gnostic-teachingshere you tell us that you are a Calvinist
    3 comments here: delightfully-deceptive-new-age-ministries-for-woman-on-the-increaseHere you can’t see anything wrong with new age teachings.

    Please don’t comment again.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Paul

    Ok I have gone to do my research since your comment and inbetween answering Hannelie (the Emergent). It’s quite simple really…

    There are quite a few theories on the location of where hell could be. The TRADITIONAL theory is that hell is in the centre of the earth, however other theories are now saying that hell could be in a black hole in outer space.

    In the OT the world hell is Sheol meaning ‘pit’ and ‘grave’ and in the NT is it Hades meaning ‘unseen’ and Gehenna meaning the ‘Valley of Hinnom.’ Both Hades and Sheol refers to a temporary abode of the ungodly before Judgement (Psalm 9:17; Revelation 1:18). Gehenna refers to the eternal state of punishment for the ungodly, Mark 9:43; “43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched”.

    The notion that hell is below us or maybe in the center of the earth comes from verses such as Luke 10:15; “And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell”. However thrust ‘down’ more than like denotes condemnation rather than a physical direction. The witch of Endor say the spirit of Samuel “coming up out of the ground” 1 Samuel 28:13-15, but this is just a vision and nothing else.

    Before Jesus ascended into heaven Ephesians 4:9; “He also descended . . . into the lower parts of the earth.” Some believe ‘the lower parts of the earth’ is a reference hell in the center of the earth. I check the 1611 KJV and it definitely says Jesus descended into “the lower parts of the earth” The NIV says, ““he also descended to the lower, earthly regions.” this translation does not give reference to His location after death.

    The idea that hell is in a black hole is based on the fact that science has discovered that a black holes are places of great heat and high pressure, and nothing, not even light can escape. Walt Disney presented the concept of hell as a black hole back in 1979 where characters passed through a black hole and the villain finds himself in a fiery place of torment, while the other bodies appear to enjoy ‘heaven’. Of course we don’t go by what TV says let alone Walt ‘Illuminati’ Disney, so I myself think this concept is bogus, even if science does give stats that could present something fiery hot.

    As for the ‘lake of fire’ spoke of in Revelation 20:10-15; when the earth is destroyed by fire (2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 21:1), another theory goes that God will use that burning earth as the everlasting place of torment for the ungodly. This to me sounds crazy, because where exactly will the new earth be during the Millennium.

    Conclusion, hell is a literal, REAL, place of torment, and it will be everlasting. Where it is I am not sure, but it very well might be in the center of the earth.

    I think the big thing we should worry about is not where hell is, but make sure we don’t land up there :)

  • Hanelie

    `Deborah,

    I still pray for you.

    I have never called myself a Calvinist; you did. Go read that thread again.

    [Edited by DTW: You said that you go to a Calvinist church, but don't believe yourself to be a Calvinist, yet you go to the lions den each Sunday... because you feel God has called you there. Whey God has called you to a false church, only the Lord alone knows. You said, "I am in this church, because this is where God has called me to work. It is not where I had wanted to be. I do not go there to grow – that I trust Christ and the Holy Spirit for, and yet I have grown as a result of some of the preaching there< . I have often questioned some of it too. I fellowship in many places, so that is not why I go there either – yet I have had great fellowship there too. I cannot work there if I am angry and hateful. Maybe that is why God is walking this road of love with me. I have been called to love the ones that have been misled, to lead them back though love (that is how He lead me back)." ---- You have been called to love people who have been mislead? Hmm That's not biblical. Love is preaching the gospel! So instead of making friends, you should be preaching the gospel to these people in the Calvinist church who are misled that they find Jesus Christ.]

    I have never approved of new age teaching (and never will). See if you can find a quote of me approving it. You won’t.

    [Edited by DTW: Hannelie said here, "In her book “A message of Hope”, Retah calls on Christians to forgive, set free and bless even those who have wronged them. She also tells readers to judge her teaching against the Word and the testimony of the Holy Spirit." and "On Retah: I have read one of her books and listened to some of her cd’s. I thought they were scripturally correct and rather bold – calling Christians to do the hard things (look inside our own hearts)." Retah is part of the NAR and has a son who communicates with spirit called wisdom.

    I never said we are not to call out and correct false teaching. I did not agree with the way it is done here.
    [EDITED by DTW: And what way is what exactly?]

    You seem to enjoy exposing Christians as false teachers. How could that be?

    [EDITED by DTW - Exposing Christian as false teachers? That will be the day...Please name all these Christians I am exposing as false teachers... seriously, please name these Christian people I am exposing as false teachers. I am guessing it's got to do with Calvinism.]

    I wonder what you would have called Peter had he lived (and erred) today. Because, let’s be honest: his mistake was no small one; it went to the heart of the gospel. He was a Christian who had made a BIG mistake. The size of the mistake can not be the deciding (judging) factor.

    [EDITED by DTW, if time was back then 2000 years ago I was lucky enough to have Peter as my friend (who I could point out issues to, and vice versa) because Peter and I both followed Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour]

    You’ve misconstrued everything I have said (except for the time I gave you praise). I wonder why.

    [EDITED by DTW - You have not praised me Hannelie, and no I've misconstrued nothing, I'm just clearly beginning to understanding your agenda.]

  • Paul (Continue in His Word)

    Thanks Debs for your response.

    You are right about the issue of a brother/sister “making a slight mistake on something very very small”, versus “someone preaching blatant false teaching and following a completely different gospel other than the one preached by Jesus Christ”.
    For example, when Bill Johnson (and Co) teach that “Jesus was born again”, you immediately need to run for your life and expose him as loud and clear as possible.

    In replying to Hanelie, you said:
    >>I have not ‘studied to show myself approved’ on this subject (I am busy researching it at the moment) so don’t know the answer as yet, it could very well be a major issue and lead off into a whole other doctrine I am unaware of.

    That is exactly my fear about this whole speculation about the location of Hell, and it can lead to more questions without answers and more speculation that can lead people outside of Scripture.

    I believe sometimes we should simply rely on Deut 29:29:
    “The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.”

  • Paul (Continue in His Word)

    Retry of my above post (I’m trying to use the HTML tags):

    Kate Adele wrote:
    Nice addition! What’s your opinion on ‘eyewitness’ accounts of those who ‘went’ to hell and back? it’s slightly on the rise here in Naija and the surprising thing is, these accounts match despite the time line and the different geographical locations. Just curious!

    I would say: What the Bible says about Hell is sufficient to me. God did not say that from time to time some people will go to Hell and then come back to tell us what they saw. That is blind mysticism, and the believer is wise not to go there. You should be aware that we are in the end-times, and the Devil and seducing spirits (spirits of deception) are active as never before.

    The same goes for Heaven. (Debs has some good articles here about trips to Heaven, visions of Jesus, angels visitations…)

    2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    2Tim 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

  • Hanelie

    [deleted]

  • Colin Ford

    Deborah/Paul,
    There is an article on http://www.thefreepressonline.co.uk where Alan Franklin it’s proprietor/editor has a piece which comments on Terry James (Rapture Ready) thrice coming back from the dead.
    I would be interested to hear any comments on this.
    I apologize in advance for not being able to post the link on to your site. My IT skills are very lacking!

  • Colin Ford

    I didn’t realize that by typing the www. address in your comment box would provide a link to Mr Franklin’s website.
    By the way, the little mugshot icon on the left looks just like me!

  • Burning Lamp

    The location of hell question is a bunny trail and a diversion. What is really important is to share the Gospel so people won’t go there whereever it is!

    As I understand it, there is a temporary holding place called Hades and at White Throne Judgement the unsaved will be thrown into the lake of fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels. Hades is a place of torment, but nothing compared to the hell of the future.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Colin

    I don’t follow after what man thinks only what the bible says, so if Terry James who ever he is deceived in other areas of his life, that is not my problem.

    Do you follow Kim Clement who agrees exactly with what you say about pre-trib? http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/06/29/false-prophet-kim-clement-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/ Go read it and see what he says and you will see that you two might be able to go bowling together on Saturday nights.

    Let me tell you a story, when I was saved I knew nothing of Christianity, in other words, I was not brainwashed by WoF or Calvinism or any other doctrine. I had a clean brain for God to work with. I sat with my bible and my laptop and I prayed and studied for years learning the Gospel Truth as the Holy Spirit taught me. My eyes were opened and the flood of information came pouring in, and by the guidance of the Holy Spirit I knew what was false and what was truth. And one of the many things I found myself studying was the rapture directly from scripture and understanding eschatology and where Israel stands in the end times and that there will be a 7 year tribulation period in which the church does not go through. Those 7 years are for Israel, when God turns his attention back to His people as the gentile world attacks Jerusalem form all angles.

    Now you can believe what ever you want, but please do not try and tell me that because some false teacher preached the rapture, now the rapture must be false. Of course it would be a wonderful ploy of Satan to discredit the rapture, just like the rest of the Gospel of Jesus by having false teachers preach certain areas correctly, while others incorrectly. Now regarding your views; if you want to dump me in the camp with false teachers, then I can label you in the camp with the Roman Catholic Church because they deny a pre-trib rapture as well – in fact you are following the exact eschatology of the RCC.

    So after you go bowling with Kim Clement you can have tea with the Pope ;)

  • Hanelie

    [I'm deleting this one too please do not comment again. The last time you were here you gave me a hard time and you are doing it again, you accuse me of calling Christians false teachers, well.. I do not. I asked to to tell me who they were and you did not. If you can't answer me then please leave. I am not interested in listening to your 'Emergent' love story.]

  • Paul (Continue in His Word)

    Franklin Graham is bringing the carnal monstruosity called “Rock the River” to Ottawa on Sept 29-30.
    A well meaning “christian” colleague of mine told about it and invited me. (I used to fellowship with this friend and with the ecumenical crowd at my workplace, but since last year I have SEPARATED from them)

    “Rock the river” is a two-days mega rock concert fit for this evil age.
    The news of the event can be found here:

    Back in 2009, a pastor wrote the following article about it : “Franklin Graham: Minister of Christ or Priest of Baal?”
    http://www.pccmonroe.org/neo-evangelicalism/2009.08.14.htm

    I AM SICK AND HURTING INSIDE FOR MY FRIEND AND FRIENDS AND ALL THOSE IS THIS CITY WHO ARE GOING TO BE PUSHED DEEPER AND DEEPER INTO DECEPTION.
    If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?
    Oh God open the eyes of those who truly belong to you, that they may see. And for those that are lost, please save some. Lord help me and enable me to warn and help those that I can.

    I would like to gather some true believers in the city, to go tot the sidelines and preach the gospel of Christ and bear biblical witness against this satanic event.

  • Colin Ford

    Deborah,
    Many thanks for your advice. However I must reject it!
    The Roman Church is a whore church which is unbiblical to it’s core. I could write pages and pages here on it’s many, many errors, but that would be pointless, because you, and most contributors here, would, I hope know this. And besides, this is why ecumenism is wicked, because in all its forms, it leads to Rome.
    As for Mr Clement, I certainly shall not go bowling with him, unless of course he repents of his ways…
    I only mentioned the article on the Free press homepage (pre-trib teacher) because it was pertinent to the thread.
    Of course you cannot ‘chuck the baby out with the bath water’, and say that just because some are in agreement with certain doctrines, that they are necessarily in agreement with everything! You would be no doubt aware of your common agreement with the Roman Catholic Church i.e;Abortion,euthanasia,homosexuality,and much else etc.
    My problem with the pre-tribulation, any moment, secret rapture teaching, however, is that I cannot find it in the bible. But of course if you carve up the Word, and say large parts of Matthew 24 and other Scriptures are ‘not for the Church’, then miss apply 1 Thessalonians 4.16 as well, then all sorts of errors will occur.
    I still get e-mails etc from pre-tribulation rapture teachers because I used to believe in this teaching myself. Clearly and obviously everything they teach is not wrong! I believe Mr Franklin however is wrong to endorse Terry James book.
    BTW,I do NOT believe that the Church has replaced Israel; we have a common salvation….

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Colin

    >> My problem with the pre-tribulation, any moment, secret rapture teaching, however, is that I cannot find it in the bible. But of course if you carve up the Word, and say large parts of Matthew 24 and other Scriptures are ‘not for the Church’, then miss apply 1 Thessalonians 4.16 as well, then all sorts of errors will occur.

    “…and say large parts of Matthew 24 and other Scriptures are ‘not for the Church’”??? Err Hulo! Who says this? You do, not I or any other person I know. You’ve asked this before and I told you, no, and now you say it again…as if you never heard me the first time.

    —> So…Speaketh to the Handeth.

    You do not understand end time eschatology properly therefore you are twisting things, not me. I think you should first focus on the fact that you follow the false doctrine of Calvinism – get that sorted and maybe everything else will follow suit.

    Now please, go comment on a blog that cares for your false teaching and that includes Calvinism. This blog is not here so that you can come and fill it with your false teaching Colin!

  • Hanelie

    Deborah, I reacted too strongly. Please forgive me. None of us like being accused of things we don’t think we did. That is no excuse for my behavior though – I (as we so often do) did exactly what I held you guilty for, acting without love.

    I give you “a hard time” as you call it, because I am trying to understand. Where I am wrong, please point it out. I might not accept it straight away, but I will take it with me to test against the Spirit and the Bible. I am still learning and will always be. As we all should be.

    But, please remember that we come from different backgrounds. Most of us have been exposed to some (often huge amounts) of deception. It is not something you work through in a moment. I have uncovered layers of it in my life, only just to find yet deeper layers of it at a later stage. Deception doesn’t come to us a a single lie, but a constellation of lies with layers and layers of traditions and half truths (or even 99% truths) working together to undermine the true message of Christ. Depending on where we are in the process of uncovering the lies we had come to believe as truth, some things might be hard for us to swallow. It might take time and we might need to have patience with one another. So, as you question me and my perspectives, I might question yours.

    I heard a teacher make an interesting statement yesterday: that we define Truth as a thing (idea, ideology, theory, etc.), while it is a person: Christ. He used John 8:32 and John 14:6 to make an argument about the importance of having a relationship with Christ. Maybe that caught me because of where I come from – the intellectual approach of Calvinist congregations which often favour understanding Christ over knowing Him. So, I am still finding strongholds from my reformed upbringing in my thoughts.

  • Hanelie

    I am not trying to wear you down, I think a grammatical error on my side might have given you the wrong idea. I’m sorry.

    I am NOT in reformed congregation. I was, and was lead out of it by the Holy Spirit. Although, I had been freed from its bondage (thankfully!), the Holy Spirit still shows me remnants of its strongholds in my life daily (such as the need to understand and explain, while faith is to believe what you cannot see or explain). I have felt the brunt of speaking the Truth in my previous congregation long before I left, but I didn’t want to leave just because it was easier for me. And, I believe there were certain things the Holy Spirit still had to teach me while I was there.

    I know you do not want me to comment anymore, so at the risk of really trying your patience, I have a question for which I have used the search function on the site, but I was not allowed access to the linked article.

    What is an “emergent”? I’ve Googled, but can’t seem to find a single, simple definition.

    Oh, also, why should I study the Latter Rain (NAR) movement?

    Thank you for tolerating me a little longer.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dear Hanelie

    I ask you nicely to please do the following: First read the following article: I am not saying you are not save, I am just saying, you need to touch up on how to have a genuine RELATIONSHIP with Jesus Christ, because without the relationship, you have nothing. Then…pray and ask Jesus to open your eyes to the truth of the complete doctrine of Calvinism, every inch of it. Then you are to go and study the doctrine of Latter Rain (New Apostolic Reformation), every inch of it, go and study this doctrine and learn what it’s about, let the Holy Spirit teach you what is ERROR and what is truth. Take your bible and study! Pray and ask Jesus to guide you in all earnest because time is running out Hanelie, He is coming back soon, and you I am afraid are sitting on the fence.

    You also need to leave the church you are attended, UNLESS you start to preach the GOSPEL truth to the people you fellowship with, otherwise you are doing nothing but feathering your own desires of having friends. TRUE LOVE is preaching the Gospel truth AT ALL COSTS. And if they kick you out Hanelie, you did the job that God sent you to do. But you can only preach the truth, if you yourself know the truth.

    My website is full of articles, read them or don’t. But please if you do anything, pray and ask that Jesus opens you eyes to the truth and QUICKLY. You say the Holy Spirit shows us things slowly… well you are wrong, He does not. He leads us into ALL TRUTH and very quickly. Jesus does not have time to mess around. It’s us who mess around with Him. If you want to know the truth Hanelie, He will show you, until then you will remain in darkness.

    When I was saved I learned the Bible and theology (self taught with the guidance of the Holy Spirit in only 2 years. The flood of information came pouring in because I was willing and eager to listen to the Holy Spirit, submit to Jesus in every area of my life and NOT MAKE EXCUSES. Jesus Christ is my authority and He is the one I look to minute every day and He guides me to preach the truth and get past the myriad of nasty comments that get thrown at me daily, many I delete that you don’t see.

    Satan tries to wear me down daily by telling me that I speak nastily to others when I DO NOT. The problem is that the TRUTH hurts and this is what get’s people and this is what upsets people. But if I don’t speak the truth no one will.

    You say you question my perspectives, but have not once asked a single biblical question, pertaining to my articles. All you have done is judge me and say I do not love and accuse me of hate. Instead of going to study to show yourself approved as to why I write about the things I do, no you jump down my throat about because you perceive I write unlovingly to people. It’s your opinion Hanelie. It’s what you perceive Hanelie. I am not unloving, I do not write unloving to people.

    You know what the bible says about genuine Christians who have the Holy Spirit abiding in them? It says they can ‘recognize’ each other by the words they speak. Why can you not regonise that this is a Christian website? As I said before, the Holy Spirit does not leave us in the dark, He is quick to teach us, He is quick to show us the truth. He is quick to show us that what we are hearing or reading is the Word of God.

    Now I have spoken the truth to you for the last time. There is more than enough info on this website for you to learn WITH THE GUIDANCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

    You don’t need to comment again because the chances are I have answered the question already in the comments section.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hanelie

    >> What is an “emergent”

    Emergent Church is a mixture of New Age paganism, eastern mysticism and evangelical dominionism (Latter Rain NAR movement)

    >> Oh, also, why should I study the Latter Rain (NAR) movement?

    You need to study what this is because this is what the so called Christian church IS today. Every church you go has been taken over by Latter Rain (NAR) or will still be a combination of Word of Faith and Latter Rain.

    If you study this movement you will understand the way the world is moving and why it will join the Roman Catholic Church and welcome the anti-Christ.

  • Hanelie

    Thank you, that helps. That is also why I have not joined any other “church” or denomination, but am waiting for the guidance of the Holy Spirit instead. I’ve seen and read quite a bit about the move back to the Roman Catholic “church”. Sad, dark and dreadful. It’s not “easy reading”.

    You called me an “emergent”. Why? I am asking because it might be that you have picked up on something (some mental remnant of the deception I had been freed from) which I still need to submit to the Holy Spirit.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hanelie

    There is a lot more to being Emergent than just my basic explanation. Emergents want to LOVE and throw the gospel of Jesus Christ out the window at the same time. I called you an Emergent because you were portraying this exact type of vibe. Love, love, love was all you could speak about but yet you could not fault me on a single bit of anything I had said based on the Word of God.

    You see there is an antiChrist ‘spirit of love’ that is going around the world right now that is imposing itself on unbelievers and Christians alike; on unbelievers it says they must unite, does not matter what they believe, and for the Christians it says they must love their so called ‘brother’ no matter what deceptive doctrines they preach. This is a lie from Satan.

    I had someone called Miste call me a murderer yesterday because I don’t love my bretheren according to her (she was speaking about Paul Washer – A Calvinist), She quoted the following scripture to me out of context of course.

    1 John 14-16 “14. We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not abideth in death. 15. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 16. Hereby know we love, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.”

    My reply to her was that the brother that is spoken of here is a GENUINE CHRISTIAN, not false ones. That you can’t just pull out a verse and use it out of context with the rest of the Word of God. The rest of the Word of God states emphatically that you need to ABIDE in SOUND DOCTRINE and if you don’t then you are not a child of God.

    If you PREACHING ANOTHER GOSPEL —> (“which is really no gospel at all”) carries an anathema: “let him be eternally condemned!” (see Galatians 1:6-9)

    Now as a Christian, you do not kill, harm, hurt, cause grief, to anyone because of the Holy Spirit abiding in you and the commandments that are written into your heart! We love everyone, we forgive those who hurt us. The call for a Christian is to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and because of that Jesus said, Matthew 10:22.”And you shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved.” Matthew 10:22 and John 15:18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first… and there are many more verse like this.

    The Emergent prefers love over truth, they prefer you to keep quiet over preaching the gospel, they prefer hugs and coffee and having dialog over stuff that has no spiritual impact in someone’s life, but preach the gospel and you lack love, you are a hater. Emergents get very sad very quickly because they just can’t seem to see the LOVE on this website and at the same time can’t see the same Jesus in me that’s in them. Well I should flipping well hope not, because I am a born again Christian and they are well…. pagan.

  • Hanelie

    Absolutely, we need both: love and truth. Sadly, “love’ (as it has been redefined by the enemy) has become a safe hiding space for those of us shirking our Christian responsibility (and a substitute for Christianity).

    Now, luckily, I was blissfully unaware of the whole “Emergent” thing, so you calling me that was just a curiosity. Had I known more about the term, I might have experienced it as hurtful. I guess, ignorance was bliss this time. :)

    I have absolutely no doubt that the one world church movement and all things related are yet more lies. The Bible is really clear that “all roads do not lead to Rome”. And I really can’t stand the “peace” sign that is suddenly on everything, especially on items targeted at children.

    Oh, Deborah, how I wish I could sit down over a cup of coffee with you. ;) Not to talk about silly things, but because each time you respond, I have more questions. Love, for example. I’d love to talk a lot more about love, but we can’t keep this going indefinitely.

  • Hanelie

    I’ve spend some time reading various threads here this morning, and as always, I have come away with a heavy heart. What a sad world of deep deception we live in. I wish there was no need to hear it all. As I struggled through the info, seeking the Lord’s guidance in it, I was reminded of Hos 4:6. I had always taken this to mean knowledge of Scripture, so it did not make sense at first, but then the Lord reminded me of another scripture: Ps 146:3. As long as I do not put my trust in men, but in God, I cannot be deceived. What a relief. How wonderful to have a God that encourages.

    And then, as I was writing this, another scripture came to mind: 1 Cor 1:12-13. Are we reminding fellow Christians of this often enough?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hanelie

    >> I was reminded of Hos 4:6. I had always taken this to mean knowledge of Scripture but then the Lord reminded me of another scripture: Ps 146:3. As long as I do not put my trust in men, but in God, I cannot be deceived.

    Hosea 4:6 “6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.”

    No Hanelie, “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge”, that knowledge is the Word of God. Jesus is the Word. The Word is Jesus. You quote Pslam 146.3, which is all very well, but one can put their trust in God all they like, but if they do not open their bible and read the Word of God with the Holy Spirit in their life they lack knowledge in every sence of the word. The Bible is but just a book if one does not have the Holy Spirit abiding in you, guiding you, illuminating scriptures for you (illuminating the biblical way that is).

    I am interested Hanelie for you to answer the question I asked you a while back where you stated I accuse Christians of false teaching. I want you to tell me who these Christians are. Name them please.

  • Hanelie

    We’re saying the same thing. :) Maybe I’m just not eloquent enough?

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    You quote Pslam 146.3, which is all very well, but once can put their trust in God all they like, but if they do not open their bible and read the Word of God with the Holy Spirit in their life they lack in every sence of the word. The Bible is but just a book if once does not have the Holy Spirit abiding in you, guiding you, illuminating scriptures for you (illuminating the biblical way that is).

    That is exactly what I meant, what “putting my trust in God” means to me. I don’t mean hiding behind trusting in God. I really mean trusting in God. Having a real relationship with Christ, through the Holy Spirit abiding in me. That is hard at times; I have to believe things I cannot see, I have to be sure that I really TRUST God (after years of deception undermining that very principle). Why do so many people rather follow other people? Because it’s easier, it sort of absolves them from that responsibility of getting to know Christ themselves, I think. Any relationship takes commitment, time (and correction).

    I chose to just refer to God in my quote above, because to me that implied that I was trusting Him to lead me though the Bible and the Holy Spirit. Sorry, I could have been clearer.

  • Hanelie

    Wow, I just read the “the-antichrist-is-not-just-about-islam” thread, and the last to posts there (by Deborah and Marion) is exactly what I was trying to say here.

    The thing is, I hate reading about all the false teaching. I also think there is a risk of becoming obsessed with it; I know people who are – Satan will do anything to prevent us from having a real relationship with Christ! But, I cannot just ignore it either. That’s why I struggled reading it. Hence, being reminded of Hos 4:6, didn’t at first make sense to me – I was gaining knowledge about other people, not Christ! That’s why the next to scriptures were so special. I am still in awe each time the Holy Spirit speaks to me. And how beautifully He does: using Ps 146 and 1 Cor 1 (which was what I needed to hear today) to remind me that our walk should be about a relationship with Christ. If it is about that, I will be protected from deception.

    Maybe I should not have shared that here today. I just thought there might be others who feel like I do and how might be encouraged by it.

  • Hanelie

    Deborah, accusing you of taking joy out of exposing Christians was a perception, and a thoughtless and unfair one, unbecoming of the Christian conduct I am called to exhibit. Please accept my apology. I still plan to answer your question in greater detail, but I don’t want it to be unfair or unguided again. In the meantime, let it suffice to say that this website has affected my spiritual growth positively. Amongst others, I had learned (what I had always known, but probably never really understood) that we cannot turn a blind eye to sin, far less to deception. Christ didn’t, and we should follow His example. He sternly corrected His disciples, sometimes repeatedly. He was very decisive and strict with the Pharisees, and showed them little patience. And, He wept for the heavy laded and mislead sinners.

    I want ask about something else though: Christmas (and Easter). Have you ever though to of putting together something on either or both of these?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hanelie

    Nooooooooooooo problem :)

    >> I want ask about something else though: Christmas (and Easter). Have you ever though to of putting together something on either or both of these?

    Yip, but I run out of time get side tracked to other things.

  • Hanelie

    ^^All, well the right time will come if you need to do it. There is a lot about it on the web anyway. Recent readings of some of that have me thinking that the traditions called “Christmas” are an amalgamation of various (not just one) pagan belief system. (The Bible is quite clear about following the traditions of men.) I actually told my husband that I need to put it in a table or something for myself to get a better grasp and to be better at making the case against it when I need to. Amazing, how strongly Christians will oppose you on this one, while at the same time complaining about the commercial nature of it. Deception everywhere.

    I still need to read more about Easter before I can speak about that with any authority.

  • Dan

    Hi Deb, thanks for a great website and the hard work you put into this. I’m still fairly new at this and I don’t know my bible well. I work in the music industry and duo to the line of work I’m in, it is demanded from me that I drink and socialize a lot! I have however made the decision to quit this industry (end of July) and to start aligning my life with the will of God.

    My wife is a buddhist, but she’s open to learning about God. I don’t know enough to start teaching her. She’s from an Asian background and to them, they simply can’t see why they need to “swop” buddha for a “western God”. Therefore I thought it’d be good to first show her about all the prophecies in the bible and how they came true. Teaching her about what is really going on in the world right now and the coming kingdom of God and how the bible predicted it all. Before I introduce her to Jesus and what he’s done for us. Jesus’ disciples asked Him ‘when these things will come to pass’ and He started telling them about the things that’s going to happen in the future. The sign they should be on the lookout for.

    Could you please point me in the right direction as far as articles on this site goes? From when the jews lost their land, to returning, to the European countries that will become a union up to where we are as far as bible prophecy is concerned in our current day? I think we might have missed the deadline for the rapture because we both still have so far to go and so much to learn, but I can’t give up. I love her and I don’t want to see her lost for good while I was the priest of my home.

    Thank you

  • Hanelie

    Oh, Dan, you know that Jesus will give you the words and direction, and I am sure Deborah and others will be able to offer advice as well. And, I am sure, many of us will carry you in our prayers too. How amazing to find someone prepared to really, really make a stand to Jesus in the way you plan to do.

    I don’t have any advice, sadly. But, I was wondering: have you ever read “I dared to call Him Father” by Bilquis Sheik. She was not buddhist, but Muslim, but came to know God without any Christian ministering to her (at first). She was simply lead, step by step, scripture by scripture, by God Himself. And, she made the really hard choice of becoming a Christian in Pakistan, at the cost of losing her family, standing, wealth, etc.

    My husband, this morning, told me that we should probably get all our “papers” from the “church” we belonged to in order to fully leave it. It is a prayer answered. Freedom. It’s a big step too, especially for him. He had been involved in commissions and things there, and had been in it all his life. I hadn’t been – tried a fwe other places as student. It is also only step 1. I thought I had no idea what step 2 was, but realized it is to simply stay in Christ and trust the Holy Spirit for guidance. I cannot see myself joining any other big-name church hastily, or at all. At the same time, a friend who had left the “church” years back had invited us for dinner tomorrow and told me that she had decided to invite along another couple who had walked a similar road. Coincidence? I think not.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    Ok, first things first, I ask you to read this thoroughly because it explains everything about salvation and repentance of sin so wonderfully.

    Understand that you need to make a FULL and UTTER commitment to God, no half measures or thoughts of going back. And by quiting your line of work, you to must ask Jesus for sincere repentance and ask Him to break any demonic influence it has over your life (because there most definitely is), this includes getting rid of your worldly music, etc.

    To be honest I would first work on getting your life sorted out with Jesus Christ before you start speaking to your wife. And the good news is Dan, the Holy Spirit works quickly :) The moment you come to Jesus and accept Him into your live with a genuine heart, never wanting to return to the world, the Holy Spirit will enter you, and then He will begin to teach you, and quickly. You will find you have this incredible desire to learn the truth, and the Holy Spirit leads us into ALL TRUTH , all the time. He will show you what to read, and you will discern what is truth and what is error because you will have the ability to discern because of the Holy Spirit abiding in you.

    You will hear his voice as a gentle whisper (like a 2nd conscience is you will) as He guides you. Get yourself a decent bible, one that has a chain reference as you are going to need it. A KJV or a NKJV will be fine – In fact the 2 parallel to one another is even better. Before you were saved you found that the bible meant nothing to you, after your salvation, the Holy Spirit illuminates (the biblical way) your mind and all of a sudden when you read the bible it all makes sense.

    And no Dan you are not too late for the Rapture, God knows when the very last person that needs to be saved must be saved before He returns to fetch His bride, He will not leave anyone behind.

    I have plenty of info on my site, and I can recommend you other websites as well with good learning info.

    In the mean time I will find some information as to why the Buddhist God is not the same as the God of the bible, that you can give her to read. You might want to print this out: http://www.truegospelofjesus.org/articles/Buddhism-AFalseReligion.pdf (please note I only endorse the article)

    Then there is this DVD: 25 Messianic Signs that is EXCELLENT: 1h:44m long

  • Dan

    Hanelie & Deborah thank you for taking the time to comment. I will definitely check out all the links you provided. Deborah, I gave my life to Jesus when I was still a kid. I do believe the Holy Spirit is in me because I have been protected and guided out of a lot of trouble. The big problem for me was I never had anyone to guide me as to how to study the bible by myself. Always relied on the church and then when that didn’t work out for me, I gave up. Never stopped believing in God but I stopped trying to know Him. Now I’m at a crossroad in my life, I had to make a decision. Give up trying or give everything. ‘Cuz I’m not happy with my life. It isn’t all what it could and should be. I’m pretty sure it’s the Holy Ghost that brought me to your site, and it’s He who told me to quit my job, and it was He who told me two days ago to quit smoking and stop drinking. I struggle to sleep at night, there’s an urgency I feel inside of me to STOP and get ready. The time has come. Today is the last work related party I have to attend. I can’t wait to start over.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    Oh no, I am not saying you are not saved, I too gave my life to Jesus when I was a child, but then went off the rails as a teenager. Then hit rock bottom at the age of 30 and became genuinely born again around this time. I too had the Holy Spirit calling me my whole life, when I think back…there were times I heard Him, but ignored Him.

    I just want you to read that article because it explains salvation and what it means very very well. It is very possible that the Holy Spirit has been calling you your whole life and now is the time to make a full commitment to Jesus. And there is nothing wrong with re dedicating your life to Jesus quietly in your room. In fact I urge you to, because you have been living a life of sin, and you need to repent of this. Once you have asked Jesus for forgiveness for your life you have been living, you will start a-new, you will be born again, a NEW CREATURE in Christ Jesus. Remember you want to have a relationship with Jesus and you are going to be asking for forgiveness a lot because we are sinners and even after we are saved, we are still sinners, the idea is that through the chastisement of the Holy Spirit we sin less.

    >> The big problem for me was I never had anyone to guide me as to how to study the bible by myself.

    That’s the thing, you wont need anyone to guide you in helping you to study the bible, when you go down on your knees and recommit your life to Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit will enter you and HE will become your TEACHER.

    When you open your bible and start reading, start at the New Testament, everything will become clear. As you start to read articles on biblical matters, all of a sudden in your spirit you will know what what you are reading is the truth (this is because of the Holy Spirit) – but a warning there is so much FALSE doctrine out there its scary, but the Holy Spirit will teach you what is truth and what is error.

  • Dan

    Thanks Deborah.

  • Dan

    There’s no such thing as ‘Christian Rock music’, because the very basics of Rock comes from Blues. And Blues have it’s roots firmly in voodoo worship where the drumming patterns are used to put you in a trans. Which artists can you recommend to listen to?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    To be honest I don’t recommend any. Even your ‘Christian worship music’ is tainted by people who profess the name of Jesus but are only doing it to make money (selling cd’s)

    I was very much into heavy music before I was saved, so I now do not listen to any music voluntarily. It was something that I gave up to follow Jesus Christ totally. I tried to find a replacement, but worldly music, be is classified as Christian is still worldly. People listen to it to satisfy their feelings, emotions, their flesh – they say they are praising God, but they are not, they themselves are enjoying the tune, not God.

    Sing to Jesus in your own privacy, with your own words, not someone else’s (who had a different meaning to their words).

  • John Chingford

    Hi Dan

    Following on from what Deborah said ….

    I wrote an article for that very reason that you gave, to help those like yourself get into Bible Study. Please look through this following article:
    [removed]

  • Dan

    Thanks John, I’ll check it out. Deborah I hear you on that. I guess I’m gonna have to write my own;-)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    >> I guess I’m gonna have to write my own;-)

    If you can, go for it. I sing in private for 2 reasons, 1) I suck, 2) I suck ahaha

  • Hanelie

    I was just wondering: any of you familiar with the work of Frank Viola (The Untold Story of the New Testament Church, Pagan Christianity, Reimagining Church, etc.)?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hanelie

    I am familiar with Frank Viola and he is New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) who merged with the worst of the worst Emergents.

    —————-

    The Other Side of Emergent:

    “Religious leadership must end its intellectual and imaginative failure to think through what it is doing in the light of the new emerging cosmology, which is hospitable to spirit-matter theories and mindbody experiences.” – Leonard Sweet[1]

    Today is the launching of a new book, co-authored by Leonard Sweet and Frank Viola. This marks the open marriage of the Emergent movement with the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR).

    Sweet and Viola’s book, Jesus Manifesto, is subtitled “Restoring the Supremacy and Sovereignty of Jesus Christ,” and it pushes the envelope on redefining Jesus, including “You can be a Jesus Manifest.”[2] A quick glance at the lineup of key endorsers for this book includes a list of who’s who in Emergent, the Latter Rain cult, neoevangelicalism and the New Apostolic Reformation.

    In recent posts on this blog we have noticed that emerging church leader Leonard Sweet has links to the NAR.[3] The co-author of his book, Frank Viola, also has roots in the NAR. He has been connected with the House2House group, a movement that is ostensibly about “house” churches, but in reality is concerned with building the networking apostolic cellular model of church for the purpose of building the kingdom of God on earth. This is the same Dominionist goal that is characteristic of the NAR: “This amazing network of churches is rapidly transitioning as a network to embrace the simple church models that the Lord is blessing all around the world,” leading to the “transforming work of God in bringing people to Christ. . . leading to dramatic advances of the Kingdom of God.”[4] John Arnott of the Toronto “Laughing Revival” has been a notable contributor to the House2House magazine.[5] [Emphasis added]

    A key name associated with Frank Viola is Heidi Baker, whose frequently appears with her husband Rolland. They flourish in the New Apostolic Reformation and can often be found on the Elijah List (chief organ for the NAR)[6] and OpenHeaven.com (a radical Dominionist group).[7] The Bakers spoke at the Global Awakening “Voice of the Apostles” conference, October 28-31, 2009 along with other NAR apostles Randy Clark, Che Ann, Bill Johnson and John Arnott.[8] Heidi was featured along with Latter Rain cult leader Rick Joyner at his MorningStar Ministries “Harvest Fest” held September 24-30, 2009.[9] The list of interconnections and associations with the NAR could go on and on… [Emphasis added]

    Neil Cole is another well-known name associated with Frank Viola and the House2House movement. He is also connected with Leadership Network.[10] Furthermore, Frank Viola’s book Organic Church: Growing Faith Where Life Happens is endorsed by such notables as Bob Buford (head of Leadership Network) and John Maxwell.[11] [DTW note: Bob Buford has been working since the mid-1990s to create a youth culture based on “emergent” theologies called the Emergent Church – a mixture of New Age paganism, eastern mysticism and evangelical dominionism. Bill Bulford is friends with Ken Blanchard, a major proponent of mysticism. Well-known church growth guru Peter Drucker consulted to Bob Buford as well as Rick Warren.] [Emphasis added]

    Leonard Sweet endorsed one of Frank Viola’s earlier books, Reimagining Church: Pursuing the Dream of Organic Christianity, by connecting it to the idea of “God’s Dream,” an increasingly common metaphor.[12] Viola has also authored From Eternity to Here: Rediscovering the Ageless Purpose of God, described as “a whole new way of looking at the Scriptures, at Jesus, at the church, and at me,”[13] and endorsed by such Emergent leaders as Leonard Sweet, Brian McLaren, Dan Kimball, Shane Claiborne and many others. [Emphasis added]

    Characteristic of all of these recent emerging convergences, a MANIFESTO accompanies the agenda being promoted jointly by Sweet and Viola. It is called “A Magna Carta for Restoring the Supremacy of Jesus Christ a.k.a. A Jesus Manifesto for the 21st Century Church.” This Manifesto does not hearken back to the written Word of God in order to follow Jesus or His teachings. Instead it speaks of “implantation and impartation” and “incarnation.” This is based on imaging, imagining, visualization, meditation, and following a “Presence,” even using the term “cosmic Christ.”[14] The document also makes this amazing statement – an example of psycho-spiritual biblical revisionism: [Emphasis added]

    “The Bible does not offer a plan or a blueprint for living. The “good news” was not a new set of laws, or a new set of ethical injunctions, or a new and better PLAN. The “good news” was the story of a person’s life, as reflected in The Apostle’s Creed. The Mystery of Faith proclaims this narrative: “Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again.” The meaning of Christianity does not come from allegiance to complex theological doctrines, but a passionate love for a way of living in the world that revolves around following Jesus, who taught that love is what makes life a success . . . not wealth or health or anything else: but love. And God is love.” [Emphasis added]

    It also seems to claim we are Christ:

    Jesus Christ cannot be separated from his church. While Jesus is distinct from his Bride, he is not separate from her. She is in fact his very own Body in the earth. God has chosen to vest all of power, authority, and life in the living Christ. And God in Christ is only known fully in and through his church….

    We, collectively, as the ekklesia of God, are Christ in and to this world.[15] [Emphasis added]

    All of this is a very quick overview, and there is much more that could be said. There are many more connections and associations. The key point is the context of this new book by Sweet and Viola. It isn’t just Emergent! This represents that much-anticipated, much touted New Apostolic Reformation great convergence, the many streams coming together into one big river!

    It was inevitable that the NAR would eventually openly connect with the Emergent Church. First, they are related historically in many diverse ways, some of which we have previously documented on this blog.[16] Second, and more obviously, the aberrant beliefs of the New Apostolic Reformation are nearly identical to those of the emerging church movement in some of the following ways:

    **The same Gnosticism, mysticism and altered states of consciousness. The belief that we are evolving to a higher order body of believers here on earth, and that if we would just jump through various mystical or restructuring hoops, paradise or “culture” would be renewed.

    **The belief that we can transform the Earth and restore it to pre-Fall conditions — either via a green environmentalism return to paradise (George Otis, James Rutz, Ralph Winter), or by building the kingdom of God on earth where Christians will reign and rule and finally “get it right” by imposing their kingdom authority on the whole planet (Dominionism).

    **The belief that God has assigned certain men with special abilities or supernatural powers to be rulers and kings, Apostles and Prophets (aka “leaders”) now on earth, in this present age.

    **The belief that the church should realign into a networking downline marketing “apostolic”/cells/small groups for a more “authentic”or “original” New Testament structure.

    **The deconstruction (de-emphasis, denigration or mangling) of solid biblical theology and practice, and the concoction of new theologies augmented with old/new extra-biblical practices.

    **The belief that God is giving his church new revelations, new understandings, or “fresh words” for these times, especially by including old manuscripts, mystical writings, supernatural incidents, extra-biblical traditions and sources, etc.

    **The idea that we are somehow responsible for bringing back Jesus either literally and physically, or that we are evolving or “incarnating” into little christs and/or one big cosmic Christ.

    **The idea that onerous and manipulative psycho-socio and scientific technologies are benevolent tools to bring in the kingdom on earth, including even altering the basic nature of man.

    This is not a complete list, but it does present an important overview.[17]

    In conclusion, it is important to remind readers that Len Sweet has always played a pivotal role in charting a 21st century course for reinventing Christianity. As Chief Scout of Leadership Network’s “Exploring Off The Map expedition” in 2000, he worked alongside New Age gurus like Margaret Wheatley, Ken Blanchard and Peter Senge to chart “NEW MAPS FOR AN ANCIENT FUTURE.”[18] This is not a new role for him, and he is still right on course. In this regard, Leadership Network has also played a pivotal role, not only launching the Emergent movement, but also giving a platform for the New Apostolic Reformation consistently throughout the past few decades. But that’s a topic for another time. . . . [Emphasis added]

    The Truth:

    “But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.” (Galatians 6:14)

    source: http://herescope.blogspot.com/2010/06/other-side-of-emergent.html

    Note: Articles posted by DTW are not an endorsement of the author, their website, ministry or any links therein. Readers are cautioned to use discernment at all times and test everything by the Word of God.

  • Hanelie

    Oh, Deborah, thank you for the detailed answer. I’m starting to be able to see the Emergent message this around me. Ouch. Ouch.

    But this explains a few things. I read Pagan Christianity – found some of it useful, but was mostly disappointed with it. I was signed up on Frank Viola’s blog, but it didn’t “sit” quite right with me – just couldn’t put my finger on it, so I never read any of the posts. This is sickening, really. :(

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hanelie

    Don’t worry, you will learn quickly as the Holy Spirit shows you. And soon you will spot them like flies. Be happy that you can see the truth :)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hanelie

    Now also pay attention to the difference between the New Age love and genuine Christian love – this is the spirit I spoke about a while ago, that has take over the world, to love, but it’s not Christian love, it’s satanic love.

  • Hanelie

    Oh yes. I see now what you meant and why you responded to my earlier posts as you did. I don’t know what to say even: things are just becoming crystal clear and (as you have said) very quickly. Sickening. Really.

    I spoke to someone this weekend who knows a minister who does not believe that Christ is God. When asking him what he preaches then (since he leads a congregation, she says he said: “Ah, you know, love and things like that.”

  • Myfanwy Brown

    Debs,

    Have you heard of a man called Bob George? If you have, can you tell me what you know about him?

  • Hanelie

    John Chingford wrote:

    I wrote an article for that very reason that you gave, to help those like yourself get into Bible Study. Please look through this following article:
    http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/how-to-study-bible-and-why-learn-how-to.html

    Thank you for this, John. I read through it (will certainly use it) and scanned some of the other links you have. About a year ago, the Lord lead my husband and myself to drop all the “Bible study” devotional books we were using and focus on the Bible instead. As we embarked on this, we realized how poorly we knew the Bible! Your Bible study questions will be a great help.

  • Estelle

    Hello :)

    The New age ‘love’ reminds me of Rob bells book, Love Wins.
    (didn’t read it, but heard him in an interview talking about the book)
    It basically came down to 2 things for me. 1. He doesn’t want to believe there is a hell and 2. He believes in a universal god.
    (In that way he probably thinks no-one is going to hell (saved or unsaved), as “love conquers all”)

    The new age love for me = making a universalised god who wouldn’t be so cruel as to not send you to heaven.

    Got this quote from a link:
    http://www.christiantoday.com/article/rob.bells.love.wins.only.presents.half.the.truth.theologian/27751.htm

    “A staggering number of people have been taught that a select few Christians will spend forever in a peaceful, joyous place called heaven, while the rest of humanity spends forever in torment and punishment in hell with no chance for anything better,” Bell writes.

    “It’s been clearly communicated to many that this belief is a central truth of the Christian faith and to reject it is, in essence, to reject Jesus.

    “This is misguided and toxic and ultimately subverts the contagious spread of Jesus’s message of love, peace, forgiveness, and joy that our world desperately needs to hear.”

    Just adding my thoughts…

  • Hanelie

    ^^I also saw the interview – made me very uncomfortable. It seems everywhere I turn these days, Rob Bell’s name pops up. I even found him on the website of a “new” church in Stellenbosch today.

    It suddenly occurred to me that I could possibly ask a question that has been bugging me for a while here. Eastern Orthodox art often depicts Jesus holding up two fingers. A minster in the church we used to go to told the congregation that Jesus was making the “V” peace sign as a symbol of what He has done for us. This was after my eyes were opened for all the lies and deception, but right at the beginning of this new walk. I immediately recoiled. I don’t like any hand or other signs and this one (together with the other common peace sign) is right at the top of my list. When this minister later said the same about another Eastern Orthodox painting, I did some research and asked some questions. One of the answers I got was that the 2-finger depiction in Eastern orthodox art often refers to the two pillars of the church: the Holy Scriptures and the Holy Tradition. According to the sources I found this “V” sign is definitely from the occult.

    Do any of you have more information on any of this? I assumed, at the time, that the minster was confusing the issues and adding his own layman’s interpretation to be cool and fashionable – to impress the kids, though my kids were hardly impressed and made their dismay so clear that we had to silence them. That said, in general, this minister was rather well informed about art interpretation (often used it in services). So, the more I thought about it, the less things were adding up. Now, I am starting to wonder: was he just deceived or was he deliberately deceiving? There seems to be a bigger picture, a bit of an Emergent agenda, here (he also once told my husband that he couldn’t preach about sin because then people would not come to church).

    And, as I am writing here, and I think back to that time, it is with shame that I put my kids through that and that I silenced them when they were speaking the truth and that I didn’t leave the congregation right then.

    I can surely just ignore all of this – but my mind tend to keep going back to things that seem just a little out of place … and many of my friends are still in that congregation. Knowing what I now know, what I have learned here, I can not keep quiet then, can I?

  • Louise

    Hi there

    It would be nice if you guys had a section giving us a little bit of information on yourselves and your statement of faith. It’s important to know exactly what people believe upfront before reading their views.

  • Dan

    Hi Deborah, I have a quick question. I have read through almost the whole new testament since my last comment here and soon I’ll be starting with the old testament. But something confuses me bit. Which of the promises in the bible are for the jews only? The way I understand it is that the new testament is for everyone, but parts of the old testament was for the jews only. How can I tell which ones I can take as my own and which ones would be taken out of context if I do? Thank you.

  • Rulof Jordaan

    [delete]

  • Vincent

    Some opinion regarding the topic around about the 27th June, the hebrew name of Jesus, read Isaiah 59:17 and take a look at the word salvation H3444 Stong has it as yeshû‛âh, but if you spoke greek it would be Iesous. But regardless by which you prefer, if you don’t know Him or He says He doesn’t know you (Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.)
    If you do not know Jesus, you do not have access to the Father (Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.)

    If you call yourself by any other name that is not of (Christ/Christos/Messiah), by my opinion you may have a problem, I’m not going to list the names, those groups know what I mean.

    We serve a jealous God who does not accept you if you do not accept His salvation, His Son.
    He is and shall always we the Beginning and the end and Centre of our faith in Him.

  • Dan

    Hi Deborah, I just want to say how great God is. In the past 14 months, I have experienced a true and living God. No longer is it just an idea, a religion – He’s real. If you remember just a few postings ago where I mentioned God came knocking at my heart, telling me it’s time to turn my life around. Quit drinking, quit what I was doing and quit my line of work. Well it sounds easy enough, but for me it involved moving to a new country as well with a pregnant wife;-) No house, no work and just over a $1000 in my pocket. My wife moved a month before me, duo to airline restrictions for pregnant woman. I prayed and I asked God to get me there in time before she gives birth. I didn’t want to miss the birth of my first born. My wife’s water broke a few hours after I arrived. Two days later I get a call from somebody inviting me for an interview, I sign the contract 15 min into the interview. I haven’t touched a drink, or smoked (cigarettes or dope) for about 6 weeks now. We have a nice place to live, we both have transport. God provided ALL of it. When He moves, there’s no stopping Him. He is amazing.

  • Flip vd Merwe

    Hi I would like to have your opinion as fellow christians regarding the following preacher and his lectures:
    http://archive.org/details/MarkWoodman-GodsFinalCall1-21

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    That is great news, God looks after his own, especially when you have given your ALL to him. Carry on the same Godly path your have chosen Dan and it will only get better, spiritually.

  • Marion

    Mark Woodman is a 7th day Adventist…that tells us everything we need to know.

  • Myfanwy Brown

    Hi Dan,

    What an amazing testimony of God’s goodness! When I just have faith and believe, and do the Lord’s will, even when I don’t have a clue how things will work out, everything falls into place.

    God bless and may you continue to walk in His light and love with faith.

  • edddycs

    Just a question I check in time to time to see if anything new “articles’ is posted -i almost thought this site had died. Whats up?

  • John Chingford

    Hanelie wrote:

    John Chingford wrote:

    I wrote an article for that very reason that you gave, to help those like yourself get into Bible Study. Please look through this following article:
    [removed]

    Thank you for this, John. I read through it (will certainly use it) and scanned some of the other links you have. About a year ago, the Lord lead my husband and myself to drop all the “Bible study” devotional books we were using and focus on the Bible instead. As we embarked on this, we realized how poorly we knew the Bible! Your Bible study questions will be a great help.

    Your very welcome. Thanks for letting me know. Please let me know how you get on. Sorry I have not replied earlier but I have only just noticed NOW that you wrote this.

  • Robbie

    Flip, Mark Woodman is a Seventh Day Adventist that died recently… false prophet who lures people with what seems to be the truth.
    Oldest trick in the Book.

    Good to see post moving again Debs :-) missed you!

  • Robbie

    Hi Myfanwy

    I personally suspect Bob George from “people to people ministries” and “real answers real life”?
    His “I am” and “who am I” sermons are typically Emergent.

    He was not easy to trace until I found his you tube sermons under P2P ministries and “real answers real life”

    He quotes half verses and makes a sermon of it…
    I am sure Debs will have more to say.

  • Dan

    In Matthew, Jesus gave his disciples the tools they need to go and preach the gospel. Those tools included raising the dead, why don’t we see that happening in modern times? In today’s world?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    edddycs

    I have been very ill – on and off, which has been very annoying for me, but this time I hope to be back again full steam ahead :)

  • John Chingford

    Hi Burning Lamp

    All (and I mean ALL) my emails to you are being returned by daemon as “delivery failed”. It takes 24 hours EVERY time to get that notice.

    I am writing here because I do not know how else to contact you to let you know. I understand (in the past) Deborah was unable to contact you by email. Could I ask that you set yourself up with another email provider such as yahoo?

    I also have not received any emails from you for several days. It is rather frustrating.

    God bless

  • John Chingford

    Hi Dan

    The clue could be that raising the dead was given as a gift to the apostles. The apostles were given as “sent out ones” in the infant days of the church with a special dispensation to be miracle workers until the foundations of the church (the people of God) were established. It appears that the miraculous died out with the death of the apostles. Remember it was ONLY the apostles that Jesus told to heal the sick, raise the dead etc.

    Today there are many self appointed apostles who are trying to recreate the time of the early church by self effort, satanic activity etc. I read on Peter Wagner’s (the biggest 21st century “so called” apostle) website that “the end justifies the means”. Basically he was saying that ANYTHING which wins people into the church is acceptable because the end justifies the means. That thinking is unbiblical and totally false as it leaves the door open for demons.

    These apostles ARE NOT real apostles and cannot be anyway, because Jesus only appointed 12 apostles for a set period of time because the church did not have the full scriptures.

    Having said these things, I do believe that God may still raise the dead on very isolated occasions if the gospel is preached say to a tribe who have NEVER had exposure EVER to the gospel.

    Also, it appears that TRUE miracles were linked to Israel being a nation. The miracles seemed to have come to a halt around the time when the Jews were exiled out from Jerusalem in 70AD. It could be that miracles will be established again AFTER the rapture of the church. Book of Revelation mentions the 2 witnesses (during the Tribulation) working miracles, so the latter rain of the Holy Spirit COULD happen around that time AFTER the church has been raptured.

    What do you think Deborah?

  • Myfanwy Brown

    Thanks so much for looking into that Robbie! I will have a look online. It is a long story, but an old schoolfriend of mine sent me two of his books to read and when I told her we are not singing from the same hymn sheet..she cut me off. I was very heartsore as we are both from Africa, and we went to school together, we were best buds.. she moved to the USA and later I moved to SA, now living in the UK!! We had been out of contact for more than 30 years..and she does that to me?? Then I realised what was at work.. very sad.

    Thanks again!

  • Myfanwy Brown

    Debs Debs!! I have been praying for you my sweetheart..I am also being attacked from all sides.. health and other troubles! Praise God for my true Christain friends, you are my family..mine have turned against me.

    Love ya sister..keep doing the good work, you are an inspiration and a blessing to me!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dear Myfanwy, thank you so much! I know you are praying for me and I really appreciate it, I do. I am doing ok :) Coming back online one step at a time.

  • Dan

    Hi John, thanks for explaining it so clearly. Now I get it. So our job as christians is not to try and heal the sick and perform these mirales. It’s to live like God wants us to so that other people can see God in us. And to minister where we can?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    Oh boy, you ask a question that involves some serious study and not just reading. You need to get a chain reference bible because all verses are linked together right across the bible, OT and NT. The Bible is like a big puzzle and not just a book to be read, for eg, prophecy in the OT is repeated in the NT or completed in the NT. For instance you want to study a topic, lets say, The Blood of Jesus. Go to the Topical index and search for all the places the Blood of Jesus appears, and search for those verses, and read those passages. But now there are the chain verses linked to those verses that you need to look up and read as well, so you look for those verses, ALL THE WHILE the Holy Spirit GUIDES YOU and SPEAKS TO YOU and gives you INSIGHT into what you are reading. And so you go on. While you are studying the about the Blood of Jesus, the Holy Spirit might show you something that He wants you to look up and study, something that catches you eye, and off you go studying those verses. Well that is how I started, it stated with 1 verse and branched out…

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    That’s it! :) If we are sick we go directly to Jesus in prayer, no middle man needed.

  • John Chingford

    Hi Dan

    You are almost right. Personally I do not discount that God still works in the miraculous because Jesus is “the same yesterday, today and forever”. The key is for believers to “abide in the vine”. Jesus said “without me you can do nothing”. That is an eternal truth. Humans can do things in their own strength but CANNOT achieve anything of eternal worth. All we can do is the physical which is temporal. Jesis (in us) can transform lives spiritually and produce fruit that lasts.

    We need to stay close to Jesus, spend time in prayer and in devotional bible study. In turn Jesus helps us to grow in grace and in the knowledge of Him. We also (in His strength) apply the Bible to our lives so that we develop our relationship with the Lord and learn how to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit. Read Hebrews 5:14 “But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evilJesus said “my sheep hear my voice”. He didn’t say “lambs” but “sheep” i.e mature lambs. However He did say to Peter “feed my lambs”.

    It should be the responsibility of mature sheep to teach the lambs but today there is so much apostasy with great number of wolves (not sheep)that lambs are having to feed themselves direct from Jesus.

    Remember that faith comes FROM God, not from ourselves. The Word of Faith con preachers are trying to whip up faith within ourselves by self effort. That is NOT the faith Jesus is talking about and will not result in lasting benefit. We cannot whip up faith inside us by self effort.

    The holy Spirit will grant you faith in the miraculous only when/if He wants you to do so. Until He does so it would be fruitless and damaging to expect a miracle from your own faith.

    The Word of faith group (and many others) preach to have faith in our faith. The truth is that all we need is to have faith in God. It is God who is a God of miracles. We need to believe in God that He is the one who does the miracles – not us. We can only move in the miraculous if HE grants us the faith IN HIM to do so and (as always) always check what you believe the Holy Spirit is telling you with whether it lines up with the infallible Divinely inpired Word OF God (the Bible) says.

  • Burning Lamp

    Hi John,

    I have sent you a couple of e-mails from other addresses. Let me know if they come through.

    Blessings,
    BL

    Also Myfanwy, thanks for your faithful prayers for this ministry – praying for you also.

  • Robbie

    Myfanwy you are so welcome.

    I am the RS of A too.
    About your friend.. When it comes to truth, Jesus did not come to bring peace but a sword, to divide.
    just stay in line, we are part of prophecy :-)

  • Tarshish

    Hie Deborah,how can you know for certain that God is calling you,what are the signs?Because I believe that God is calling me into the discernment ministry but I’m just not ready for the heat and the critisicm I will get from people.I feel like I’m fleeing from God.Please Advice.Thanxs

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Tarshish

    1) Do you know the bible well? Can you answer every question that is thrown at your accurately – because God will hold you accountable.
    2) I know I am called to do this because when I am not doing this I am miserable, I feel lost, but when I am working for Him, I am being filled daily by the Holy Spirit; as the Holy Spirit works through me, I do the typing, He gives the answers that I sometimes do not know.
    3) The criticism is hard, and it takes it’s toll on me. But through prayer, God gives me the strength to carry on, and on and on.
    4) Worst is to be befriended by people who are wolves, but they lie making you think everything is ok, when deep down you know it isn’t and then when you expose them….that is the worst.

  • Hanelie

    John Chingford wrote:

    We need to stay close to Jesus, spend time in prayer and in devotional bible study. In turn Jesus helps us to grow in grace and in the knowledge of Him. We also (in His strength) apply the Bible to our lives so that we develop our relationship with the Lord and learn how to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit.

    Oh, yes!! I read this with such joy, because it is what God has been reminding me of over and over again the past few weeks. And, here I get it again today.

    Remember that faith comes FROM God, not from ourselves. The Word of Faith con preachers are trying to whip up faith within ourselves by self effort. That is NOT the faith Jesus is talking about and will not result in lasting benefit. We cannot whip up faith inside us by self effort.

    If we look around us (especially in “organised church”), we’ll see how we’re being pulled away from away from a relationship with Christ constantly, making Christianity just another works-based religion. It can seem so right – so in line with what we had been “taught” in church, which makes it incredibly deceptive and very dangerous. I think it is really one of the areas where we all have to pray for discernment very day.

  • Tarshish

    Thanks Deborah you are doing a great job.I was once trapped deep in the deception of Pentecostalism but God set me free and made me realize the truth.Your site as well as other sites like this helped me lots in my search for the truth.It was hard leaving Pentecostalism,but its now over a year and by the grace of God I have recovered from the deep wounds I was given by those merciless wolves.It hurts knowing that you were deceived, It hurts knowing that you wasted your time and effort furthering the devil’s agenda while you thought you were furthering God’s agenda, It hurts knowing that you were used by the devil and you led some people deep into the devil’s net.At the time I left I was really angry and hurt and everything seemed meaningless.I thank God because he was with me all the time and he healed my heart and added purpose to my life. I believe God is calling me to expose those ravening wolves in sheep’s clothing.They are really deceiving many people,and once you are under their power,its really hard to leave.I like your statement “Worst is to be befriended by people who are wolves, but they lie making you think everything is ok, when deep down you know it isn’t and then when you expose them….that is the worst.”.Thanks for the advice

  • Redeemed

    Tarshish, there is no doubt that the call to alert the Church and exposee the deeds of darkness and the wolves that are ravaging the Church is a very difficult and challenging one.

    It might be helpful to you to read about Jeremiah, the weeping prophet and also the others whom God called to declare His truth. The office of prophet ceased and is no longer in operation today, but their spirit is in operation today and the gifting is so vital to the health of the Church.

    Along with it goes a great deal of rejection and even hatred, but this is the case of all God’s truth – it is often not readily received. But there will be some that will welcome it as a drink of water in a desert.

    That ministry is a lonely walk, just as it was with Jeremiah and his counterparts. But our Lord walked a lonely path and was rejected. The most important thing is obedience to what God has called you to do. As Deborah says, the test is that “fire in the bones” that Jeremiah speaks about. There is no peace if it does not get expressed. Fear comes from the enemy and you can expect attacks and opposition. But again, obedience to God’s call is paramount and wisdom is needed to determine the certainty of that call. There is no doubt that it is needed.

    When you expose a popular teacher who tickles the ears, it will most likely be viewed as being critical and you most likely will be misunderstood. Just as some have accused Deborah of jealousy when exposing Joyce Meyers. She has to allow that to roll off like water on a duck’s back. Only God can give the strength to do that.

    Be careful that you speak the truth in love and that you get your facts straight. And be sure you are grounded in sound doctrine including eschatology. Beware of the error of Calvinist/Reformed doctrine that is being promoted even by so-called “discernment” ministries. Satan will try to trip you up and you will be a prime target. But remember, He Who is in you is so much greater than the enemy. Don’t depend upon your flesh – it will fail you.

    May the Lord grant you wisdom and make His calling for your life clear.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Tarshish

    >> It hurts knowing that you were deceived, It hurts knowing that you wasted your time and effort furthering the devil’s agenda while you thought you were furthering God’s agenda

    It does hurt, but you know what… THANK JESUS for showing you the truth :) because now you know! Millions of others don’t. See what you went through as a lesson in life that God allowed to happen because He would use you one day to help people escape out of what you went through. If you want to do what I am doing, you don’t need to have a comments section, you can just write articles based on biblical truths.

  • edddycs

    @Debbie ,not nice sounds like you are under attack this has happened more than once.
    You also need a succession plan (back up).But well done and chin up.

  • Dan

    Thanks John, much appreciated.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    edddycs

    >> not nice sounds like you are under attack this has happened more than once.

    Nope, this is something I have had since birth and its gotten worse since I’ve grown OLDer lol. I deal with my ailments and Jesus gives me the strength to pull through every time.

    I have thought about a back up plan many a time, the last time I gave people access to my website; their mission was to take it over (they were under cover Calvinists conning me big time), anyhow, I will ask around my trusted neighborhood and see what I cam come up with :)

  • Redeemed

    edddycs, you have picked up on how difficult a ministry that doing a site like this is and Deborah presses on as best she can despite the obstacles. She has been betrayed by those she trusted. I don’t know of a discernment ministry that has a “backup” plan in the event of their illness or demise for whatever reason. There are so many wolves and clever deceivers.

    Those who are on the “front lines” of discernment need prayer support but so seldom get it because people are so few and far between who understand the importance of the ministry and how critical the need for intercessory prayer.

    Those who have frequented this blog for any time know that when there is a hiatus it is probably due to illness and that should prompt us to lift Deborah up in prayer.

  • edddycs

    @Redeemed, i agree and i encourage you all who are faithful The Lord always has a plan,and he provides a way and or a person.
    I do find this site a ‘coal face site’ in time to come it will be a ‘go to jail or deny site”
    I am also an “outcast” in my community to the “christian hood” as they do not like to read and understand the bible for what it is – there has to be a way to make money out of it and also to gain self glorification.
    @ Debbie you need only make an admin appointment so that the conversation continues you need not give total control.
    This is going to sound radical but I would like to see local leaders who talk and preach another Christ also exposed here,and the money beggars,like local AOG South Africa.
    Allan Bagg Bay Church, and so on.
    Chow

  • Hanelie

    Reading some of the above, I was suddenly reminded of something I read in a sermon (about the Beatitudes) recently. I’m not sure if it will have nearly the same impact quoted out of context, but I am going to try anyway. Talking about the first Beatitude, he he quotes Leonard Ravenhill’s definition what it is to be poor of Spirit and thus approved of by God: ‘This is a man who has no ambitions, and therefore he has nothing to be jealous about. This is a man who has no reputation, like the Lord Jesus Christ himself – bless His name – therefore he has nothing to fight about. This man has no possessions, so he has nothing to worry about. He has no rights, therefore he suffers any wrongs. He’s already dead, therefore no-one can kill him’.

    Being so different is no easy task and certainly is something we can only do with the help of the Holy Spirit. It really is dying to self. The quote above is a striking description and highlights just what it is we are called to do, but at the same is quite a comfort to me. Isn’t this freedom? And peace – to trust God as my judge.

  • Rista

    Hi, maybe there is someone who also visit this site who can help. I am looking for a church – even if it is a homechurch – in the Paarl or Northern suburbs of Cape Town areas where I can have fellowship with other discerning believers. A church that uses the Bible as the only book for everything they believe, as guidance for the way we are supposed to live and who measure other books against the Bible before suggesting it as reading\study material. A church that do not molly-coddle its people but do the straight talk thing when necessary without caring whether whomever feel the sting of the words will leave the church and take their money with them. I’ve left the church I grew up in after I discussed my concerns with the leaders and they felt that my concerns was ‘taking things too far’ and told me that I may not judge. I really miss the company of people who feel and uderstand the way I do about the Lord, His Word and the price He paid for us. I am so tired of hearing the ‘Yes, BUTs . . .’ that cater for our carnal selves and make excuses for us to keep living the way we do after we are born again because the true way is too ‘harsh’ and ‘judgmental’.

    Tnx and God bless!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hanelie

    >> Leonard Ravenhill’s definition what it is to be poor of Spirit and thus approved of by God: ‘This is a man who has no ambitions, and therefore he has nothing to be jealous about. This is a man who has no reputation, like the Lord Jesus Christ himself – bless His name – therefore he has nothing to fight about. This man has no possessions, so he has nothing to worry about. He has no rights, therefore he suffers any wrongs. He’s already dead, therefore no-one can kill him’.

    Leonard Ravenhills definition of being poor in spirit is wrong…

    Jesus is speaking of being “poor in spirit”; i.e., being SPIRITUALLY poor. Jesus is only interested in our spiritual realities not with material possessions, etc.

    Matt 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    To be poor in spirit is to recognize your utter spiritual sinful nature before God. It is understanding that you have absolutely nothing of worth to offer God. Being poor in spirit is admitting that, because of your sin, you are completely spiritually destitute and can do nothing to deliver yourself from your dire situation; hence you need Jesus Christ as your Saviour. Jesus is saying that, no matter your status in life, rich, poor or middle class for that matter, you must recognize your spiritual poverty before you can come to God in faith to receive the salvation He offers.

    I dunno who this Leonard Ravenhill guy is, but clearly he lost the plot on that one. His definition sounds quite socialistic.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Rista

    I will give your email address to someone down that side of the world, I hope he can help you.

  • Hanelie

    Oh no! That’s why I said I was worried that it might not work out of context! Because that is exactly what it was about – being aware of your utter sinfulness and that there is nothing you can bring to God to earn salvation. I’ve seen so many incorrect uses of the phrase “poor in spirit”, that it was really a great joy to find someone explaining it like this … and I was just as excited now to see you giving the exact same description. :D

    The pastor used Ravenhill’s definition to make it practical in a different way, to bring it home, or to illustrate something of we as Christians live in the world as a result of this. I did not see (because of the context in which it was used) any reference to material wealth in it. I read in it instead something about a way of thinking, and a way of being – not to having or not having material possessions, but rather to your relationship with them. It is not about me, my possessions, my ambitions, my good name, but about God. So, when people call me names because of what I believe, it’s not about me; I don’t have to protect myself, because it is about something bigger than me. Not sure if that makes sense.

    This is how this pastor summarizes the first three beatitudes:
    1. the first is about understanding your utter sinfulness (intellectually)
    2. the second is about that intellectual understanding moving to your heart and becoming an emotion
    3. the third is about being okay with others knowing that about you

    So it is knowing that we are sinners (unable to help ourselves), mourning the fact that we are sinners and being willing to be seen as sinners. I found it quite a powerful way of thinking about it.

  • Hanelie

    Oops, I should have added that I was a sloppy in how I posted that quote. The pastor never said that Ravenhill’s words was a definition for being poor in spirit! I just checked. I started typing a longer post – in shortening it, I didn’t really think it through and the meaning got changed. Sorry. :(

    Of course, you are right, it is NOT a definition of being poor in Spirit. I don’t know in what context it was used originally, but here it was used in reference to Paul’s words in 1 Cor 4:13:

    1 Corinthians chapter 4 and verse 13, I want you to see this, Paul the apostle – he says this is the secret: ‘Being defamed, we entreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day’ – who’s he talking about? The filth of the world – if someone came up to you, or was in the prayer meeting and you heard them praying ‘the filth of the world’ you’d think they were describing the sin of the world, or perhaps the sinners of the world. But Paul uses this word and that’s not what he’s describing as filth of the world, or offscouring, he’s describing himself! He reckons himself as the filth of the world – if I can say it, the scum of the world – why? Because he is willing to be reckoned a fool for Christ, because he reckons himself nothing, because he’s poor in spirit.

    Leonard Ravenhill said: ‘This is a man who has no ambitions, and therefore he has nothing to be jealous about. This is a man who has no reputation, like the Lord Jesus Christ himself – bless His name – therefore he has nothing to fight about. This man has no possessions, so he has nothing to worry about. He has no rights, therefore he suffers any wrongs. He’s already dead, therefore no-one can kill him’. My friend, this is beautiful: he is the scum of the world for Christ.

    You see now why it made me think of recent posts here. :)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hanelie

    That makes more sense!! :) I retract my comment about Leonard Ravenhill.

  • Rista

    Tnx Deborah, appreciate! 8^)

  • Bettye

    What about 119 Ministeries?? Their website is testeverything.net.. Anyone know about this?

    [EDITED by DTW - Bettye, I moved this from the Chuck Missler article to the General conversation topic :)]

  • Osito

    Hi Deborah,

    Do any-one of you know what is this IFCC INDABA?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Osito

    IFCC EXECUTIVE WORKING DOCUMENT
    HISTORY OF IFCC TO WHERE WE FIND OURSELVES

    At the IFCC National Pastors Conference August 2010 it became evident that there was an
    urgent need to re-examine the structures of the IFCC which seemed to have lost its
    effectiveness! Structures should never inhibit, stifle growth and progress as they are here to
    serve us. The challenge we are facing is to get back to the cutting edge of what God wants
    to say and do!

    Eighteen years ago the IFCC was in a similar situation when structural changes had to take
    place to embrace political changes to become relevant and be on the cutting edge of God’s
    purposes. We called a ‘Bosberaad’ of the then existent leadership to seek the way forward.
    At this meeting a parting of ways took place, and the IFCC was changed from a “Fellowship”
    to a “Federation.” Many left the IFCC, struggling to embrace the changes that needed to take
    place in our Churches
    with a proper representation in the leadership of the IFCC.

    In the last 18 years the IFCC has been socially significant as our Churches sought to become
    effective in their communities. The IFCC became a prophetic voice in our communities as
    well as nationally on the political front. There were only a few ‘mega churches’ at the time,
    whereas today, there are many. The uniqueness in which the IFCC churches grew was a far
    better representation embracing people from all cultural groups. Our Churches found a way
    to love and accept one another in Christ, which brought great healing amongst people.
    In the midst of the above we have somehow lost our prophetic edge and are not being as
    relevant as we should and could be. It is for this reason that a need has arisen to seek the
    Lord to lead us into a new dispensation. The time has come for the Church to once again be
    the prophetic voice in our nation, leading the way in righteousness and giving direction on
    critical issues irrespective of the response!

    At this ‘Indaba’ the IFCC must be courageous in discussing the necessary structural changes
    in order to facilitate a greater harvest. The IFCC requires a leadership that is committed to
    each other in love, accountability, respect and embracing our differences while looking to
    Jesus Christ to bring revival in our time. This way we can confidently hand over the baton to
    the next generation knowing that we have finished the work Jesus has given us!
    PREAMBLE

     The IFCC is an International Federation of Christian Churches and/or Ministries who
    believes that the Holy Scriptures have sole authority on all matters of faith and their
    interpretation. This is commonly known as “Evangelical” as contra-distinguished from the
    “Unitarian” and “Roman Catholic” interpretations.

     “Federation” is understood to mean a system of government wherein a group of selfgoverning or autonomous churches/ministries unite and associate for certain specified
    mutually beneficial functions and purposes. In so doing, the churches/ministries agree to
    cede, assign and/or waive certain limited aspects of their independence or autonomy to
    enjoy the greater benefits of the federation, in this case the IFCC.

     The Churches in IFCC and the Church plant action has grown phenomenally. This requires us
    to re-visit the present IFCC structures and make the necessary changes to continue the
    phenomenal growth, church plant action and fulfill our responsibility in the Great
    Commission!

    This is nothing but Rick Warrens Purpose Driven Church and New Apostolic Reformation / Latter Rain (Dominionism) in action It would appear this FEDERATION has been spearheading the church in the anti-Christs direction for some time now. What interests me is that many people found that what they want to do unacceptable and left their ‘fellowship’…. “Many left the IFCC, struggling to embrace the changes that needed to take place in our Churches” just shows you that what ever their game plan is it is NOT Biblical.

  • Marion

    Bettye…from what I can see, they are “Hebrew Roots” cult…watched a couple of their videos…they recommend the works of someone named Michael Rood. You can find info about him and what he teaches here:

    http://www.seekgod.ca/1roodbreakup.htm

    (use of any link is not an endorsement of any site – informational only)

    [EDITED by DTW - Marion, I moved this from the Chuck Missler article to the General conversation topic :)]

  • Hanelie

    Different topic: A brief word of warning to anyone who have young children/teenagers re the movie “Brave”.

    I actually hold the view that pretty much everything that comes from Hollywood is to be frowned upon. Yet, in an unguarded moment, I allowed my daughter to go see “Brave”. Upon returning home, she very quickly told me that she felt uncomfortable in the movie because it had a witch. That night, she woke from a nightmare (when she gets nightmares or unexplained headaches, it usually is a sign of exposure to some form of occultic elements).

    The next day, we worked through the Christian armour again, and we talked through the event, also what to do should she ever find herself in a similar situation in future. I was amazed at her spiritual insight as we talked through the movie, and really glad that she picked up the problem with it immediately. A very good friend (of similar Christian views as ours), the same night, made the same mistake.

    I learned again that we cannot let our guard down, not even for a moment.

  • Bettye

    Oh my… Wow was I ever off… Thank You so much.. I will get the hang of researching stuff on the internet.. Again thank you for your discernment..

    [EDITED by DTW - Bettye, I moved this from the Chuck Missler article to the General conversation topic :)]

  • Osito

    Hi Deborah,

    Sorry but i lost the privelage of asking question when i was at crc, so if i ask to many question just tell me to slow down. I can see on this site you answer a lot of question and it must be a lot of work. When i aksed the people at crc something it took them +- 4 months to came back with a stupit answer.

    Rick warrens has he anything to do with the IFCC? Becuase i see crc is also now part leader of the IFCC.

  • Bettye

    I love the fact I know have people to bounce things off of… I hear a lot about Jesus coming to fulfill the law but not to get rid of it. And I have heard that we should still be honoring the Sabbath just like we still try to follow the other of the ten commandments. I was not raised that way at all (raised IFB) and wouldn’t even know how to start. If we don’t have to, then why not… I don’t mean like going to church on Saturday but trying to honor it the way the bible portraits.

    [EDITED by DTW - Bettye, I moved this from the Chuck Missler article to the General conversation topic :)]

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Hi Bettye

    Please read this article to explain the Sabbath day. You can read all the comments as well if you want. WARNING: SDA Evangelistic Drive, AMAZING DISCOVERIES 2010 @ Mosaic Theatre (10 Nov – 4 Dec) it explains how we as born again Christians view the Sabbath day.

  • Alf Hutchison

    Deborah may I ask all of you on this site a Question please ..it is for a study I am doing …”What day was Jesus crucified on”?… Let us for the moment agree to disagree n the timing of the rapture …

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Alf

    The Bible does not exactly state on which day of the week Jesus was crucified. There are two most held views, the one being that he was crucified Friday, the other on Wednesday. Some, others say it was actually Thursday.

    To be honest, it does not effect me as to what day Jesus was crucified on, what does effect me is that He was crucified and His shed blood washed away my sins :)

    I have noticed that Calvinists have this ‘thing’ about trying to figure out what day Jesus was crucified on… are you a Calvinist?

  • Alf Hutchison

    [deleted by DTW - I have decided to delete all your comments Alf, sorry please do not comment again, they will be deleted!]

  • Alf Hutchison

    To answer your question I am A Baptist Deborah… originally Methodist.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Alf

    If you know, then why ask? You said…”it is for a study I am doing?” But you seem to know the answer, so why ask? Hmm?

  • John Chingford

    John said: Of course Alf is a Calvinist. Mick is clearly looking to Alf for support of his Calvinistic Augustinian Church fathers viewpoint. As I pointed out on http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/10/02/not-wrath-but-rapture-will-the-church-participate-in-the-great-tribulation/#comment-224627
    Calvinists/Catholics are wrong because they base their theology on the teachers who Paul warned about in Acts 20:30:

    “Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.”

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Baptists/Calvinists – samething…

  • Myfanwy Brown

    Debs, the reason Alf is asking is because he thinks he can ‘catch you out’ somehow. This is Alf Hutchison’s MO I am afraid to say! I would not even go there if I were you Alf, you are wasting your time. The real truth is spoken on this site, and Debs, John, BL and others here are full of wisdom and discernment. You won’t get away with trying to flog your false teachings on DTW!!

  • Redeemed

    Alf, do you mind my asking which “flavor” of Baptist you are? There are many varieties of Baptist. Thanks.

  • Redeemed

    To answer Alf’s question and one has to wonder just why he is bringing this up out of the blue, but it is an important question because it relates to the fulfillment of prophecy concerning our Lord. Churches commonly celebrate “Good Friday” and this is really inaccurate. It is true that the most important thing is to recognize why the Lord died and was sacrificed for us.

    A Friday crucifixion would not allow the days necessary for Christ to be in the grave until His resurrection on Sunday morning. Jesus said the Scripture must be fulfilled, all things are written in the law and the prophets about Him and must be fulfilled. It was written that He would be 3 days and 3 nights in the grave. There is no way to get 3 nights from a Friday afternoon crucifixion, Friday night-Saturday night, to a Sunday morning resurrection. John Chapter 19, says that Jesus was on the cross at the very time that the Passover lambs were being slain. It was the 10th of Nissan when they took the lambs out of the flock and observed them for 4 days to make sure they were without spot and blemish and acceptable for sacrifice. Exodus 12:6, very clearly says:
    6 Now you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month. Then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at twilight.

    He rode into Jerusalem on the 10th of Nissan, just as Zechariah 9:9 foretells, on what we observe as Palm Sunday.

    “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!
    Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!
    Behold, your King is coming to you;
    He is just and having salvation,
    Lowly and riding on a donkey,
    A colt, the foal of a donkey.

    The Word says the Lamb had to be slain on the 14th day of the month. If Jesus is going to be who He claimed to be, that’s going to be on Thursday, the 14th, Palm Sunday is the 10th, the 14th is Thursday, and He was crucified when the lambs were being slain. He was in the grave 3 nights—Thursday, Friday, Saturday and the days of Friday, Saturday and part of Sunday, exactly as the Bible said.

    It’s very important that the Scriptures be fulfilled. The Jewish leaders said that they had to take Jesus down from the cross because the Sabbath was imminent. This is where there is often confusion. It was not the regular Saturday Sabbath. 19:31 says, Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

    It was a special Sabbath, observed every 7 years, not the regular Saturday Sabbath. Thursday afternoon, they would call it before sundown would be evening, the lambs were slain. Then, after sundown they were roasted with fire and the Passover observed. That is the first day of a 7-day Feast of Unleavened Bread, it is a High Sabbath. It was a High Sabbath, a special Sabbath, and the next day was another Sabbath, Saturday.

    I don’t know how Alf comes up with Christ being crucified on the 13th day of the month because that would contradict what the Bible says.

    Scriptures from NKJV

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Myfanwy

    Yes, I figured this out, hence I am deleting all his comments.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Redeemed

    Yes, there are soooooo many types of Baptists. Alf did reply (which I deleted) and say he was not Calvinist, but then to be honest I don’t think he knows what he believes to be honest. One thing we do know is that he preaches doctrines that are off the charts heretical and totally antisemetic. So can we believe him when he says he does not hold to Calvinist teachings? Me thinks not.

  • Alf Hutchison

    [deleted]

  • Alf Hutchison

    [deleted]

  • Alf Hutchison

    ONE word PATHETIC

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Alf Hutchinson

    Yes Alf, the evil doctrines you preach are PATHETIC.

  • Hanelie

    I have a question (and a few vaguely/unrelated points sparked by some of the conversation here and elsewhere on this blog): what does the term ‘evangelical’ refer to. I have searched this site and found many references to it, but no definition. I ‘googled’ it as well, found theological / linguistic definitions, but that’s not what I am looking for.

    That made me think that a list of terms and ‘definitions’ (all the words I come across here … emergent, baptist, calvinist etc.), would be nice, but it would become very long very quickly, I am afraid. :)

    I followed the conversation about Halloween (not a tradition that has really caught on where I am before, but it is starting to rear its ugly head here now, with halloween fun runs etc.) Equally worrisome to me is what happens with Christmas and Easter. Neither are Christian celebrations, although many people are fooled to think they are. And in these cases, they (including their completely pagan rituals such as easter eggs and bunnies, christmass trees and santa claus etc.) are celebrated by and in churches!

    Lastly, re the above: we know that we will be persecuted (harassed, ill-treated, etc.)if we really follow Jesus. Let’s hold on to Mat 5 – blessed are those that are persecuted for the sake of His name.

  • Sherry B.

    Deborah-I’ve been a Christian for almost 40 years, and EVERY “teacher”. “pastor”, “writer” I ever followed has managed to fall by the wayside in big ways. I have come to see that they are indeed “ministers of Satan” who appeared to be preachers of righteousness for this very time we live in. I appreciate anyone who is a true Berean, because the Word of God and His Holy Spirit are the ONLY guides we need when it comes to the Truth. Thank you for fighting the good fight! Just want to encourage you in your work.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Thank you Sherry B!

  • Redeemed

    Sherry B., I would like to clarify one thing about your last statement. God did give the gift of teaching for the benefit of the Church. I have been a believer for going on 60 years, (not that we’re competing, LOL) and I have seen more of them come and go, especially in the last 10 years or so. Some whom I considered solid Bible teachers. What they taught then WAS solid and Spirit-led, but then they let in some leaven and that leaven grew and tainted their ministry and I had to cross them off my list.

    As time went on, I found that I benefited from what I lovingly call “the dead guys”, those who are what they were and the work they left is solid. I have friends who have become disgusted by false teachers and have taken to studying the Word and have decided to entertain no teachings whatsoever. Two of them have concluded from their studies done in isolation that the pre-trib rapture is false doctrine! I have seen others I don’t know personally but have so-called discernment blogs fall into the same trap. I’m not saying that God cannot reveal the Bible to those in isolation, but when good teaching is available, I believe it is there for a purpose. Now we must be good Bereans and listen to the Holy Spirit to discern. But a good expositor of the Word can be very helpful, especially in explaining passages that can be difficult. Would you agree?

  • Redeemed

    Hanelie, yes some of those terms that get thrown around can be confusing and they mean different things to different people considering the context in which they are used.

    Many people and organizations call themselves “evangelical” but in fact they are not. Evangelical to me means that the focus is on evangelism, sharing the Gospel of Christ, fulfilling the Great Commission. Now there are many activities being done today and described as “evangelical” but they preach a compromised Gospel. A true evangelical will preach the true Gospel and then provide for new converts to be established in the truth and discipled. That is the full intent of the Great Commission.

    Af to Calvinism/Reformed, that is simple. A belief based on TULIP or any part thereof. One can look up what TULIP means and it will be apparent. I think Deborah has done a great job of exposing Calvinism on this blog.

  • Hanelie

    Thank you, Redeemed. I used to think that all these terms (and what people call themselves) didn’t matter. I no know better. What you call yourself says a lot of who you are and want others to think you are. And understanding what things like the Emergent Church movement, NAR, Calvinism etc is an dis about, helps one to understand what you are seeing and spot the deception.

    What you said above about teachers is really sad, but it is what we have been warned about. Luckily we have the best helper in the Holy Spirit. We recently had such a case with a speaker at the school my daughter goes to. One mother did a bit of research, and warned the rest of us. During my own research on the speaker (who had, on occasion, preached to the church I used to attend), I couldn’t miss the liberal trade marks of the Emergent movement. We learned form this that we need to be far more “vigilant”, not trusting the school’s choices because we trust/like the teachers organised the event.

  • Sherry B.

    Redeemed- Yes, I do agree that a good expositor of God’s Word can be very helpful. However, I am NOT finding any today, as they all seem to slip in that tiny bit of heresy that might go unnoticed if one does not read/listen very carefully. The truly Godly teachers are dead-this I agree.

    As to people who’ve come to the conclusion that there will be no pre-trib rapture by studying on their own, they are either of that persuasion already, read/listened to too many false teachers today, or they are not looking for the places where it is mentioned directly, indirectly in the New Testament, or by “types” in the Old Testament.

    Our faith in anything that God has said or done in His Word is that precious gold He so values in His people. Everything we do, say, and believe must be based on His Holy Word and His Holy character as He has shown in His Word. I do not understand all of His Word, but I believe it because He has said it. One thing that has helped me is to daily ask for HIS wisdom, discernment, and understanding, and as James says, He will gladly give these things to those who but ask, with no reproof.

    The apostasy today is meant for the time we are living in. It is also a TEST for God’s people to truly believe only in Him and in His Word. It’s extremely hard to live in this world full of deception and liars, and Jesus Christ and His Word are the refuge for those who would live Godly in Him. I give unbelievers a “pass” because they know not what they do. But to those who deliberately deceive while pretending to be “of God”, there is no pass nor any redemption, and Jude nailed it as to their end.

    You and I are “old warriors” in God, and I never “compete” with any true fellow Christan-LOL! Rather, I believe we “sharpen” one another in our faith in Him and in His Word. Contending for the faith is a JOY to me, as I sense it is for you and Deborah and others.

  • Dan

    I’m keeping a close eye on this event – Austere Challenge 2012. America IN Israel with lots of loaded guns.

    [Edited by DTW: added link: http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_10_25/Austere-Challenge-2012-US-Israel-hold-anti-missile-drills/

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    LADY GAGA’S NEW PERFUME CREATED USING BLEND OF HUMAN BLOOD, SEMEN, & POISONOUS EXTRACT

    “If you have ever doubted the truly satanic essence of the infamous Lady Gaga, then you need look no further than her new perfume, which is expected to debut this fall. According to the Boston Globe and various other sources, the new Gaga scent, known as “Fame,” was created using a sample of Gaga’s own blood, as well as semen from another unknown donor. The blend apparently also contains a highly-toxic plant extract that is known to kill humans.

    It could all just be one big demonic publicity stunt to market the ugly black liquid packaged in an alien-like, egg-shaped bottle held by what appear to be slender claws. But several sources confirm that Gaga literally used her own DNA to create the scent, which included offering up a blood sample that was actually added to the fragrance batch. Where the alleged semen came from, though, is still unknown. http://worldtruth.tv/lady-gagas-new-perfume-created-using-blend-of-human-blood-semen-poisonous-extract/

    We are definitely in the days of Noah. What’s next…

  • Redeemed

    Just when one thinks that Lady Gaga could not get more wicked…….this is beyond disgusting. What a depraved soul.

  • Myfanwy Brown

    Debs, this is an interesting article on sport from that site. Post if you like : )

    http://members.ozemail.com.au/~rseaborn/football.html

  • Michael

    When I read the topics posted on DTW one thing stands out above all…in that it is a contest between truth and lies.

    Also what stands out is the love and inclination that human flesh is drawn by a force towards lies. Sin has it roots in lies…Satan’s deception in the garden of Eden…subtle suggestion and reason…”Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, has God said, you shall not eat of every tree of the garden?” Gen 3:1.

    The discerning that Debs does is a huge contribution towards Christians getting back on track…yes it will cause disunity but who wants unity without the security and foundation of truth. Even interpretation if it’s only 1% wrong can be dangerous…but the deceivers purposely mix truth with error and create confusion.

    The bottom line is…get truly saved with repentance…turn…die to the old self and ACCEPT the Lord Jesus’s dying on the cross for your sins…then read your bible for spiritual food and guidance…Jesus promised He will send the Holy Spirit (the Comforter) to help you.

  • Myfanwy Brown

    Debs did you get around to reading the link I posted above? If you did, are you unhappy with what it says?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Myfanwy…

    No sorry, I forgot to approve your comment. I didn’t read the article in it’s entirety..

  • Myfanwy Brown

    No worries, read it when you can.. I would rather you read it before approving it : )

  • Micheline

    Hi Debs,
    I use the “Life Application Bible”. I bought it many years ago to assist me with passages I didn’t understand as it has explanations of the verses on each page.
    Is this Bible a good one to have?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Micheline

    Hmmmm, you know what, I do not think it is good to have a bible with commentaries because THEY give you their opinion of what the verse means. Instead use a normal bible and when you stumble upon a verse you don’t understand, use the internet to go and so a search for the what it means… then at least you will get a whole lot of ‘opinions’ as to what it means… but out of all those webpages 1 is bound to be correct, and that is the one that HOLY SPIRIT will tell you is correct :) Make sense? So you are not stuck to your Life Application Bible’s version…

  • Micheline

    Thank You Debs, much appreciated.

  • Rob Diamond

    Hi all.

    I am Rob Diamond and I live in Colorado. I just have a short observation to make following the elections. I see some states have passed same sex marriage and here in Colorado an amendment about being able to use marijuana was passed. It is just more of the same type of stuff which brings down judgment upon us.

    Isn’t it ironic that the recent storm was named SANDY? It is like the Lord is saying you have build your house upon the sand instead of the rock. so many people’s lives are not built on Jesus Christ, the solid rock.

    This election shows people are building their lives upon the sand and a big judgment storm is on it’s way.

    I pray for mercy, dear Lord.

    Rob Diamond

  • Noelene

    Hi,
    I have just got through your article on the alpha course and found it ver informative. I attended an alpha course 13 years ago and God saved me on that very course. My life has never been the same…….but do I advise others not to attend the course????????
    Shalom,
    Noelene

  • Micheline

    I have a question, if I may:

    What is the human being’s purpose on earth?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Micheline

    1) Accept Jesus as your Saviour
    2) Preach the gospel as best as you can with the gifts that the Holy Spirit given you.

    Rick Warren’s purposes all revolve around YOURSELF.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Noelene

    >> I attended an alpha course 13 years ago and God saved me on that very course.

    Were you slain in the spirit? What doctrine do you follow; Assemblies of God, Full Gospel, Apostolic, etc?

    >> but do I advise others not to attend the course????????

    No, I would not advise others to attend.

  • Micheline

    Debs,
    Thank you for your answer.

    The reason I asked this, is because I want to discuss this issue with my teenagers. As I was a teenager ‘once’, I remember the feelings I had towards following God….you know “Ag, if we follow Jesus there will be no more fun with our friends, no parties….actually, we can’t do what we want”.

    I want to explain to them that following Jesus does not take away the fun stuff in life. As peer pressure is such a big thing, as is fitting in, following Jesus might not be the number one thing on their list. I know they know and love Jesus, we brought them up that way, but that is just it – they were brought up that way – it hasn’t been an act of self discovery yet.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Micheline

    >> The reason I asked this, is because I want to discuss this issue with my teenagers. As I was a teenager ‘once’, I remember the feelings I had towards following God….you know “Ag, if we follow Jesus there will be no more fun with our friends, no parties….actually, we can’t do what we want”.

    I can only pray for you Micheline.

    >> I want to explain to them that following Jesus does not take away the fun stuff in life. As peer pressure is such a big thing, as is fitting in, following Jesus might not be the number one thing on their list. I know they know and love Jesus, we brought them up that way, but that is just it – they were brought up that way – it hasn’t been an act of self discovery yet.

    I know what I was like as a teenager and I gave my parents hell. I landed up in the occult for about 17 years. But it was through my mothers constant prayer and nagging at me ‘about Jesus’ in my younger years, that at the age of 30 cried out at the top of my voice, tears streaming down my face for Jesus Christ to save me. I repented of every single sin, changed my wicked ways and Jesus saved me, washed me in His precious Blood and delivered me from all Satanic bondage.

    Prayer Micheline, is the biggest weapon you have to fight the enemy, and because Jesus has conquered Satan already, all you need to do is remain firm and pray for your kids, DAY and NIGHT that no harm comes to them, that they hear the Holy Spirit’s calling (that they feel convicted) and that they turn their lives over to Jesus completely. Keep praying and keep speaking to them, even when they tell you to go away!!

    They must understand that when they give their lives to Jesus 100% all of a sudden the world seems very very worthless, and they wont even want to attend parties because Jesus opens their eyes to the evil, and they wont want to be partakers of this evil.

  • Aliki

    hi Debs, found a questionaire regarding Catholicism’s evangelization this morning and was wondering wheter you had seen it. Says it all. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/evangilization

  • Micheline

    Debs, only saw this now. Thank you for the advise.

    You said: “They must understand that when they give their lives to Jesus 100% all of a sudden the world seems very very worthless, and they wont even want to attend parties because Jesus opens their eyes to the evil, and they wont want to be partakers of this evil.”…HOW TRUE IS THIS!!!!!

    We have a year-end party coming up with clients, and I soooooo don’t want to go….for the first time in my life I feel like this.

    Another question: How do I explain the truth to a person who doubts that there is anything after death? Then ontop of it all, he believes that mere humans wrote the Bible and there could be mistakes. Can you direct me to an article or something that he can read….I don’t want to confuse him even more.

  • sue

    I saw this article this morning in a local newspaper. I think this young man shows a lot of courage.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    @ Riaan Kasselman: test test test

  • Micheline

    Debs and all DTW-ers,

    We have the list of all the “baddies” to avoid. Yet it seems that Christian Bookshops only sell the “baddies’” books.

    My I ask for any suggestions on good books to buy. I would love to give my family good and wholesome reading material…the-TRUTH-and-nothing-but-the-TRUTH-books.

    Can we have a list of “The Good Ones”?
    (P.S if there is such a list on DTW, I have missed it and do apologize)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Micheline

    You know, I actually don’t have a list of good people because I honestly do all my studying out of the Bible – the best authors ever :) However I was introduced to Dr Henry Ironside. Someone was kind enough to send me a parcel with a whole lot of his books and they are fantastic. The Holy Spirit confirms for me that what he says (so far what I have read) is the truth. Then there is also Dave Hunt from the Berean Call.

    Other than that, please just try read your bible instead and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you as you are reading the Bible. He will illuminate things for you and give you understanding that you never had before.

  • Redeemed

    Re: #177 – Sue

    Here is the rest of the story regarding Angus T Jones.
    He has backtracked on his statement in deference to his role on the 2 & 1/2 Men and their producers, etc.
    Also, here is part 2 of his video showing that he is one confused young man.
    He is sucked into 7th Day Adventism.
    But reportedly he is returning to the sitcom next year.
    http://www.deadline.com/2012/11/2-5-mens-angus-t-jones-slams-show-as-filth-urges-viewers-to-stop-watching/

  • Spencer

    Greetings to Deborah and others..

    So much content, so much to review. But so glad I made it over to this page. Thanks for the referral from the ‘other’ page… I’ll hold any comment or questions until I have a chance to go through all the content here…

    God Bless everyone…

  • Aliki

    Hi Debs, I would appreciate if you and the rest of the team would elucidate me on the following: luke 10:17 – 23 With special reference to v 18. Thank you

  • Redeemed

    @ Aliki:
    There are two possible trains of thought on this portion of Scripture and both may be correct.

    Jesus’ words to those He had sent out may have been a warning not to be prideful after they had experienced victory over demons. Pride is what caused the fall of Lucifer/Satan.

    Also, the final fall of Satan is yet to come when Michael and his angels deal with him. (Rev. 12:7-9) during the Great Tribulation.

    Not sure what prompted your question, but hope this helps.

  • Daniel Russell

    [delete - Dan I am not sure what you are trying to say, it just looks like you have copied and pasted from a book, ask a general question instead]

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Aliki

    Aliki I am going to quote Dr Henry Ironside on this one, because it’s easier for him to explain than me :)

    Hi Debs, I would appreciate if you and the rest of the team would elucidate me on the following: luke 10:17 – 23 With special reference to v 18. Thank you

    Aliki I am going to quote Dr Henry Ironside on this one, because it’s easier for him to explain than me :)

    Luke 10:1-24
    1 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him two by two into every town and place where he himself was about to go.
    2 He said to them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Therefore ask the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest.
    3 Go! I am sending you out like lambs surrounded by wolves.
    4 Do not carry a money bag, a traveler’s bag, or sandals, and greet no one on the road.
    5 Whenever you enter a house, first say, ‘May peace be on this house!’
    6 And if a peace-loving person is there, your peace will remain on him, but if not, it will return to you.
    7 Stay in that same house, eating and drinking what they give you, for the worker deserves his pay. Do not move around from house to house.
    8 Whenever you enter a town and the people welcome you, eat what is set before you.
    9 Heal the sick in that town and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come upon you!’
    10 But whenever you enter a town and the people do not welcome you, go into its streets and say,
    11 ‘Even the dust of your town that clings to our feet we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this: The kingdom of God has come.’
    12 I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town!
    13 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.
    14 But it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon in the judgment than for you!
    15 And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? No, you will be thrown down to Hades!
    16 “The one who listens to you listens to me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects the one who sent me.”
    17 Then the seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name!”
    18 So he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
    19 Look, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions and on the full force of the enemy, and nothing will hurt you.
    20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names stand written in heaven.”
    21 On that same occasion Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your gracious will.
    22 All things have been given to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son decides to reveal him.”
    23 Then Jesus turned to his disciples and said privately, “Blessed are the eyes that see what you see!
    24 For I tell you that many prophets and kings longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.”

      The Mission Of The Seventy — Luk 10:1-20

      We should recognize the fact that In this entire passage we have to do with a former dispensation, and we cannot carry everything in that dispensation over into the present age of grace. There are, nevertheless, important lessons here from which we may draw help and instruction as we seek today to do the will of God.

      We have already seen how the Lord commissioned the twelve apostles and sent them out to the cities of Galilee. Now we read that He appointed seventy others. These did not have the official standing that the twelve had. Their commission was for a limited time only, the period during which they would be going from city to city ere His final rejection by the people of Galilee. He sent them out two and two, because He recognized how much they needed fellowship with each other. The preacher in the book of Ecclesiastes tells us that two are better than one, for if one should fall the other can lift up his fellow; and so it seems to be according to divine order, generally, that Christ’s servants should labor two or more together. One alone might make many blunders and be discouraged, whereas two could confer together and each be cheered and encouraged by the other.

      As the Lord contemplated the multitudes who were as sheep without a shepherd, and to whom He desired His disciples to go with the message of the kingdom, He impressed upon them the need by saying, “The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few.” He bade them pray the Lord of the harvest that He would thrust forth laborers into His harvest. On another occasion, when He sat at Jacob’s well, after having revealed Himself to that poor, needy woman who had come to draw water, He turned to His disciples and said, “Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? Behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.” That great harvest-field was constituted of the multitude who did not as yet know Him as Saviour, Messiah, and Lord. It is still true, though we live in a different dispensation, that there are vast multitudes, not only in our own land but in all the regions beyond, who need Christ and who are waiting for the messengers of the Lord to go to them with the precious truth of the gospel. We may therefore apply His words to the present time as well as to the past. He still bids us to pray that laborers may be sent out to reap the harvest that is waiting to be garnered.

      In Luk 10:3-7 we have the direct commission given to the seventy. The Lord Jesus said, “Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.” They were to go in simple dependence upon Him, trusting in the power of God to sustain them, and not retaliating in any way if they were ill-treated. Neither were they to make provision for a long journey, for their mission would be ended within a very short time; therefore He added, “Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.” It would be folly to take these words out of their connection and make them obligatory upon servants of Christ today. The seventy were sent to the people of Israel; they were Israelites themselves. The nation was waiting for the manifestation of the kingdom, and these disciples were to go forth and proclaim the near approach of that kingdom. They had a right to expect entertainment and consideration from those to whom they carried their message. Because of the shortness of the time they were to hasten on their way, and were not to stop for the customary, lengthy, Oriental salutations. They did not need a large sum of money, extra shoes, nor clothing, because the circumstances in which they were found did not demand such provision. In this we may see how different were the circumstances in which they were placed from those in which the average missionary of the cross is found today.

      The seventy had a right to expect to be received by their Jewish brethren as they went to them to declare the presence of the King among them. The Lord said to them, “And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house. And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.” They went forth to proclaim the coming of the Prince of peace, and their salutation was in accordance with this. If the owner of the house was indeed a son of peace, he would gladly welcome His messengers. In that case they were to abide in this house during the time they preached in that particular city or village. If, however, the son of peace did not dwell there, that is, if there was no one in that home who was ready to recognize the mission of the Lord Jesus and to welcome His messengers accordingly, their peace would return to them, and the owner of the house would have lost his opportunity. Alas! When Christ came to the house of Israel the son of peace was not there, and so we read that, “He came unto His own, and His own received Him not.”

      These messengers were not out on a pleasure tour, and so they were warned against anything that would look like selfishness or the pursuit of personal enjoyment. They were to remain in the house where they were received, eating and drinking such things as were given to them, recognizing the fact that the laborer is worthy of his hire. They were laborers in Jehovah’s great harvest-field; it was for his people to receive and provide for them. They were not to go gadding about from house to house, seeking better entertainment. They had a perfect right to expect the people to receive them as the King’s representatives, and therefore they need not feel ashamed to accept whatever entertainment was given them; but they must not give way to indulgence.
      During this present age of grace, servants of Christ have no right or reason to expect the world to receive them into their homes or to provide for them in any way; and so this scripture, in the fullest sense, could not be applied to the present day. We read in the Third Epistle of John of traveling brethren, evidently ministers of the Word, who went forth for the name’s sake of the Lord Jesus, taking nothing of the Gentiles. The apostle Paul refused to seek his support in the way of taking gifts from the heathen world. He would far rather labor with his hands in order to properly provide for himself and those with him. Conditions were different while our Lord was on earth and ministering to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. His representatives were not trying to impose upon the people when they accepted the accommodations offered. They recognized that it was in this way the people responded to the message of the kingdom, and so whenever a home was opened to them they were to enter into it and gratefully accept the provision offered. It was the duty of the disciples to emphasize the grace of the King. The Lord gave them special power to work miracles in His name. Their message was ever the same: “The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.”

      The Old Testament prophets had spoken of this coming kingdom. They had told of One who was to reign in righteousness, and for centuries Israel had been waiting for His manifestation. Now the King was in their midst, and there were few who recognized Him. One can imagine these couriers going from place to place ministering to the needs of the people, and declaring, ‘The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you,” as the folk gathered together. “The Messiah has already appeared and calls upon you to receive Him. The kingdom of God is about to be established in your midst.” The great majority spurned the message and refused the claims of the Lord Jesus Christ and would not have Him reign over them. They knew not the time of their visitation, and so they lost their opportunity. Because of not entering into the blessedness of the kingdom, the time came when the Lord, as it were, shook the dust off His feet as a testimony against them, and said to them, “The kingdom of God is taken from you and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” And for the time being Israel has been set to one side, and there has been brought in an altogether new dispensation. During all this period those who know and love the Saviour are called to represent Him in the world. This is the time when God is taking out from among the Gentiles a people for His name. He is proclaiming peace by Jesus Christ, and though bloody warfare has marked all the centuries since Christ returned to heaven, those who have trusted Him have found lasting peace, even in the midst of trouble. They have proven the truth of the word, “Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Thee: because he trusteth in Thee.” The kingdom is still in the future. The Lord has gone into the far country to receive for Himself a kingdom and to return. Until the day of His Second Advent, His servants are to be busy calling on men to be reconciled to God.

      Our scripture deals with a very important time in Israel’s history. It was a time of crisis. Everything depended on the attitude of the people toward our Lord Jesus. Would they receive Him? If not, they must remain in their sins, and they would never enter the kingdom for which they had been waiting. There were comparatively few who opened their hearts and homes to the messengers and their message, but to them came blessing. As for the rest, they were left in their sins. The very dust of their cities was a witness against them. Nevertheless the fact remained that the kingdom of God had come nigh unto them.

      In the next few verses we hear the Lord pronouncing the judgments that were to come upon the cities in which He had done the most of His mighty works, which had the best opportunities to know Him, and yet had refused Him. Of all such, He says, “I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” From where He was standing He could probably see the cities of Chorazin and Bethsaida; and as He looked upon them, He said, “Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.” These cities, cities which had been blessed by the personal presence of the Lord, and whose people had seen His face, heard the wonderful words which proceeded out of His mouth, and beheld His mighty acts; yet had turned coldly away and even scornfully refused to acknowledge Him as King and Lord. Today Chorazin is merely a ruin, and until recently it could not be positively identified. I remember when traveling in Galilee I noticed some ruins off to one side as we drove down toward Samaria, and turning to my guide, I said, “I see the ruins of a city over there; do you know what city it was?” He was an Arab. He said to me, “That is the city that is called Chorazin in your Bible.” That is all that is left of it, because its people failed to receive the King when He came among them in lowly grace. Bethsaida still remains, but it is a poor, little fishing village on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. I was told it is almost impossible to find a Christian there.

      Capernaum was called our Lord’s own city, for there He made His home when in Galilee after leaving Nazareth. Surely the people there, who had every opportunity to become well acquainted with Him, would receive Him. But, no! He sadly exclaimed, “And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.” It was in Capernaum that the Lord had delivered some of His greatest discourses. The Sermon on the Mount was probably preached on the tableland just back of the city. It was there that He found Matthew the publican, and called him away from the tax-collector’s office to become one of His apostles. It was there that He restored Peter’s wife’s mother to health when she was sick of a fever; and there He raised the daughter of Jairus, and healed the poor woman who said, “If I may but touch His garment, I shall be whole.” Many other wonders had been done in that city, and yet its people rejected Him; and so, though exalted to heaven in privilege, it was to be thrust down to hell, that is, to hades, the unseen world. So completely was this prophecy fulfilled that for over 1500 years no one knew positively the site of the city of Capernaum. It is only within our own times that it has been uncovered. During those long centuries it was covered over with the sands of the desert, and travelers passing by saw only a low mound. But during the time of the First World War, a group of German monks, interned in their monastery on the side of that hill, began to dig in the ground, and little by little they uncovered the ruins of Capernaum. It is just as true of cities as it is of individuals: judgement comes if they spurn the mercy offered to them. It is a terrible thing to trifle with spiritual realities. “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.” These words are as true of cities and nations as of individuals.

      To refuse to accept the testimony of one who comes bearing the message of Christ is the same as refusing Him. Jesus said, “He that heareth you heareth Me; and he that despiseth you despiseth Me; and he that despiseth Me despiseth Him that sent Me.” We should realize that listening to one of God’s servants as he reads the Word of God is the same thing as listening to our blessed Lord Himself. What responsibility this puts upon us to take heed how and what we hear!

      In Luk 10:17-20 we read of the return of the seventy after they had fulfilled their mission. They evidently had experienced a wonderful time in spite of the indifference of many to them and to their message, for they returned to the Lord with joy, saying, “Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through Thy name.” He saw that they were too much taken up with their own accomplishments-and there is always the danger of those who preach the Word to take too much credit to themselves for any results that follow-but as these disciples talked of the subjection of the demons, Jesus looked forward in spirit to the hour when Satan will be finally cast out of the heavens, and He exclaimed, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” Then He added, “Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.” That He meant this to be taken literally is evident from what we read in the book of Acts, when the apostle Paul was cast on the island of Melita. He and his companions had made a fire in order to warm themselves, and a serpent came out of the fire and fastened upon Paul’s hand. He thrust the venomous beast into the fire and was unhurt, due to the preserving power of God over His own when they are actually in His will. This of course is very different from deliberately handling poisonous snakes as some fanatics have done in our day in order to demonstrate their faith.

      There is something far more blessed, however, than working miracles. That is the knowledge that one is right with God! The Lord Jesus told these exuberant disciples not to rejoice simply because demons were subject to them, but rejoice rather because their names were written in heaven. This is true of all who have trusted Christ for themselves. All such have their names written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, and these names will never be erased, but will remain for all eternity. — Dr Henry Ironside

      The Mystery Of The Incarnation — Luk 10:21-24

      It is noticeable that immediately after announcing the coming doom of the cities where most of His mighty works had been wrought, our blessed Lord is said to have rejoiced in spirit. Had He been dependent upon human conditions and worldly circumstances for His joy, as we so often are, He might well have been cast down and depressed when He realized how few there were who seemed to have any heart at all for His message, and who were ready to receive Him as the Messiah. But instead of being discouraged by man’s coldness and indifference, He manifested the truth of the Word most preciously. With glad heart He looked up to the Father with whom He had unbroken communion, and said, “I thank Thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in Thy sight.” He was content to know that the purpose of God was being carried out in spite of man’s rejection and enmity. Those who, by their fellows, were numbered among the wise and prudent, had failed to recognize the Messiah when He came in lowly grace, although they professed to be waiting for Him. The Lord’s appearance was not at all what they expected. They were looking for a great and mighty King; they were looking for One who would drive the Romans from the land of Palestine, re-gather Israel and set up His kingdom immediately, sitting on David’s throne. Instead, there walked among them a Man content to live in apparent poverty, with no certain dwelling-place, going about proclaiming the love of God for poor sinners and declaring that He had come to give His life a ransom for many! This was not at all the kind of Messiah these wise and prudent ones expected. And so their eyes were blinded, and their ears were closed against Him. The precious things He declared seemed foolishness to them. On the other hand, there were those in Israel who, as compared with the wise and prudent, were but babes in knowledge and intelligence. But to these simple ones the Son was revealed, and they learned to trust Him and saw in Him the promised One for whom their people had waited so long. This was all in accordance with God’s purpose of grace; and the Lord Jesus fully acquiesced in His Father’s will in this as in every other respect.

      In the next verse, which is also found in Matthew’s Gospel, we have brought before us in a very striking way, the mystery of the Incarnation. Jesus said, “All things are delivered to Me of My Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal Him.” What a rebuke are these words to those theologians who insist upon trying to explain in every detail the union of the human and the divine in Christ. It is quite proper that we should dwell upon what Scripture has declared, but when we attempt to go beyond Scripture, we are almost certain to fall into error; for it is just as true today as it was when Jesus first spoke the words, that, “No man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father.” The union of the human with the divine, the two natures in one Person, is beyond our comprehension. We know from Scripture that our blessed Lord was God the Son from all eternity, one Person of the ineffable Trinity. We know that He came from the glory that He had with the Father before the world was, and stooped in grace to be born into the world of a Jewish mother. Scripture insists upon the fact that this mother was a virgin. He had no human father, and therefore we may say that He was the Son of God in two senses: He was the Eternal Son, one with the Father before all worlds, and He was the Son of God as Man when born on earth. But in Him we see deity and humanity united in one blessed, adorable Person. To explain this is impossible. Faith receives it because it is revealed in the Word of God.

      Observe the difference between the statement He first makes concerning Himself and the second statement as to the Father. He tells us that no man knoweth who the Father is but the Son. However He immediately adds, “And he to whom the Son will reveal Him.” Our Lord Himself came to reveal the Father, who, apart from the Son and His revelation, never could have been known. The creation, of course, bears witness to His eternal power and Godhead, as we are taught in the first chapter of Romans, but it was Christ Himself who made known the Father’s name.

      This was one of the things hitherto kept secret which the Lord Jesus declared. In Deu 29:29, we read “The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.” Isaiah writes, “For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside Thee, what He hath prepared for him that waiteth for Him.” This is the passage that the Apostle quotes from the Septuagint in 1Co 2:9. But he immediately adds, “But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.” Many marvelous truths were hidden in olden times which, since the Advent of our blessed Lord, have been made known to His own. Some of these things He Himself revealed while on earth; others were opened up by the Spirit after Christ ascended to heaven. It is in view of these new unfoldings of divine truths which He came to give, that the Lord Jesus turned to His disciples and said to them privately, that is, He was not speaking to the world as such, but only to His own: “Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see: for I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.”

      It is a precious privilege indeed to be taken into God’s confidence and permitted to share His secrets. We know how friends on earth delight to share with one another certain secret things which they do not make known to strangers; and so our Lord Jesus looked upon His disciples as His intimate friends, and He delighted to open up to them precious things concerning the divine Fatherhood, the wondrous provision God had made for the salvation of the lost, and the preservation of His own.

      It is our privilege today to enter into and enjoy these hitherto secret things, now revealed to faith. We do not need visions or new revelations in order to understand and appropriate them. We discover them as we study the Word of God in prayerful dependence upon the Holy Spirit who inspired the writing of it.

      What we all need is to take the place of babes, to whom God may reveal His secrets. He delights to fill the hungry with good things, but the rich He sends empty away. If we come to Him self-emptied and wait on Him to feed us, we shall find, by faithful perusal of the Holy Scripture in dependence upon the Spirit, that wonderful things will be made known to us that otherwise we would never see. Time spent over the Word in a prayerful attitude will produce rich dividends in the way of leading us on into the knowledge of Christ and His truth. —Dr Henry Ironside

  • Redeemed

    There is something far more blessed, however, than working miracles. That is the knowledge that one is right with God! The Lord Jesus told these exuberant disciples not to rejoice simply because demons were subject to them, but rejoice rather because their names were written in heaven. This is true of all who have trusted Christ for themselves. All such have their names written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, and these names will never be erased, but will remain for all eternity. — Dr Henry Ironside

    Oh how the Lord used Dr. Ironside – because he was a humble man and SERVANT of the Lord. What a contrast to the prominent Christian leaders we see today. He would never welcome praise, but surely he would be pleased that he had been used of the Lord to enlighten His Word through the Holy Spirit.

  • Aliki

    @ Debs and Redeemed.

    I thank you both for love and time and effort and apologise for taking so long to respond.

  • eric

    Help me out. Where are the verses that tell me I am to test every. Word?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Eric

    Help me out. Where are the verses that tell me I am to test every. Word?

    Testing the Spirits – plus look at the other verses at the end of some of the verses I have added for you.
    1 John 4:1-6
    1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (Jer 29:8; Matt 24:4; Eph 5:6; Col 2:18; Matt 7:15-16; 1Cor 14:29; 1Thess 5:21; Matt 24:5; Matt 24:24; 2Pet 2:1; 2John 1:7;)
    2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses Jesus as the Christ who has come in the flesh is from God,
    3 but every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God, and this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and now is already in the world. ( 1John 2:22; 1John 2:18; 2Thess 2:7;)
    4 You are from God, little children, and have conquered them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
    5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world’s perspective and the world listens to them.
    6 We are from God; the person who knows God listens to us, but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit. (9 John 8:47; John 10:27;)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Aliki

    No worries, it is my pleasure :)

  • Redeemed

    @ Aliki:

    Thank you for your refreshing and kind words. All glory and honor go to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Blessings to you!

  • Sean

    Hi Deborah, I trust you are well.
    I know that this “gold dust, gem stone and angel feather” heresy is sweeping through the church at the moment – it seems everyone is running after some sign and some wonder!Is there any way, using the scriptures I can refute these things?
    Blessings.

  • Dan

    Hi Deborah, I gave my heart to God a few months ago, I started studying my Bible and it’s been going really well. My prayers get answered and I just can’t get enough of reading and studying the Bible. However, I’m surrounded with atheists and evolution theorists ALL DAY LONG! Appart from letting these people know that I’m a christian, I haven’t started witnessing to them yet. Dave Hunt says you have to be able to proof that the God of the bible is real. You can’t just expect people to believe in Him if you can’t back up any of your claims. I couldn’t agree more. That’s why I spend every free moment to study my bible so that I can be ready for their questions and arguments when I do start witnessing to them. But, this takes time. Especially since I live in a foreign country, churches conducting services in English are few and far between. I don’t have even one friend that shares my beliefs. However, this morning I read a verse that just took all the wind out of my sails. 1 John 4:1 – 3 If you’re scared to witness, it is not from the spirit of God. But by the spirit of the anti-christ. Does God take us on a path where He educates us first or do I have to start witnessing from day one, even if I have no idea what scripture means yet or where to find it? This is the first time I feel so bummed out since I became saved. Please advice. This is a pretty serious conviction.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    You need to read that verse in context with the whole council of God. If you are not ready to preach you are not ready to preach. All churches in fact tell people that they need to go out and start preaching to people once they get saved – I say this is the worst thing to do. Most people don’t even understand the gospel message of salvation in order to be able to tell others about it.

    God will take you on a journey where He will teach you through the guidance of the Holy Spirit and when the times comes for you to witness to someone, you will be ready. Do not rush into it. Get all your ducks in a row – make sure you can answer all these people’s questions, in fact study these atheists and evolution theorists – listen to what they say as to why God does not exist and then build your gospel message around those questions. Become a master in your field so to say. You are surrounded by these people for a reason. This is your project that God has given you! But be prepared as you don’t want to be in a situation that you can’t answer someone.

    Also remember this, the Holy Spirit needs to be calling the other person who you are preaching too as well, so pray and ask God for opportune moments to witness to the right people that your seeds are sewn.

    Another thing you can do with is open a blog aimed directly at atheists and evolution theorists to preach the truth to them, and through the comments section – there you will preach till your hearts content :)

    Make sense?

  • John Chingford

    Dan

    Although I do not specifically endorse the theologies of the site “answers in Genesis” It is a superb resource site for countering atheistic, evolutionary, false science ideas. You can find it on:

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/

  • John Chingford

    Dan

    We ARE all called to be witnesses of Jesus from DAY ONE. However, we SHOULD only tell people WHAT WE KNOW and not get caught up in discussions which we are temporarily ignorant about.

    The woman of Samaria IMMEDIATELY went about telling the people what Jesus had done in her life, so did the blind man etc etc. We are called to tell people that Jesus IS alive, risen from the dead and is with us and tell them what He has done for you. Witnesses means that we have seen the evidence and now testify of what we have seen and know.

  • John Chingford

    re comment 195 @ Deborah (Discerning the World):

    DAN, please check out my other blog which you could use (copy from) in your witnessing:

    http://www.lastdayschristianmessenger.blogspot.co.uk/

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    John & Dan

    Ah yes, sorry I misunderstood – witnessing about what Jesus has done for you and who he IS, is something we most definitely will do from the time we are saved. If you don’t want to talk about Jesus then there is something wrong.

  • Dan

    John & Deborah – Thank you both.

    “If you don’t want to talk about Jesus then there is something wrong.”

    Yup. Then there’s something wrong. It’s not something I want to do it’s something I feel I have to do. I’m very shy. But even around my friends (who I seldom see now) because they are ALL atheists. I get very nervous everytime when the opportunity arises. I’m scared of the rejection, scared of the consequences of witnessing at work. I’m being very honest here because I really want to be helped.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    Ahhh yes, the rejection. Well this doth come with the territory. And you are going to get slapped silly (literally speaking) through mocks and jeers and possibly even sworn at (like I was). When I was saved I made a conscientious decision to tell my occultic friends I was a born again Christian and that I could no longer be friends with them. I said to Jesus, “I am turning my life around right here and now, and I will start by the one thing I loved the most, my friends” – my friends kinda defined who I was. So I told them one evening and boy it did not go down well. I was sworn at, mocked, one even spat at me. One couple said I could remain friends with them but they did not want to hear the name Jesus EVER, but it was ok for them to blaspheme Jesus’ name all the time and I was not allowed to say anything about it. I said no. And I walked out. Being a born again Christian is sometimes a very LONELY life (until such time that you find a partner who is born again as well). You need to make a decision – pray and tell Jesus to give you the courage to speak to these people and give your the strength to take what ever they throw back at you – you never know you might find someone who is willing to listen. You only have to sew one little seed once. And you wont be fired because Jesus is in control of your job! He was the one who got it for you ;) Ever think about that? But having said all that – if you don’t want to speak to the people at your work, pray about it, ask Jesus what you must do? He will let you know.

    I am not good at speaking in public because of my disability, I get stressed out to quickly, end up having little seizures that people don’t understand and I forget what I want to say. So this blog is perfect for me because I can take my time when it comes to answering people and make sure I give the right answer.

  • John Chingford

    Hi Dan

    Debs is correct. You say that you don’t want to witness because of fear of the result. When Debs said “If you don’t want to talk about Jesus then there is something wrong” she was not referring to the “fear” factor. What she meant (surely) is that your love for Jesus is so great that you have a DESIRE to talk about Him. He is your Saviour, lover of your soul, your very spiritual life breath, so those who don’t get excited talking about Jesus or talking to Jesus are obviously lacking something important – maybe not born again. It certainly shows that they have not received the Holy Spirit.

    From what I read from your comments, YOU DO love Jesus and DO desire to talk about Him. Your problem is only that you have allowed fear to prevent you from sharing the message that you SO LONG TO SHARE.

    Would you desire to witness if it meant NO persecution? Of course you would! The key is to place yourself completely in God’s hands and trust Him entirely with the results. He has promised that you will not suffer MORE than you can cope with. If you step out and witness (in faith) He will give you the boldness and a JOY in doing so. As you step out He will fill you with the Holy Spirit and will take care of the outcome for you.

    How often did God (in the OT) and Jesus (in the NT) have to say “fear not”. Jesus said “fear not, I have overcome the World”. Jesus said “do not fear man, who can only (at worst) kill the body” Note: in brackets added by me for clarification. That may seem a big deal to you, but remember that LIFE AND DEATH is ultimately in GOD’S hands. They cannot do ANYTHING without God’s permission.

    The more you step out in boldness, the more help you will get from the Holy Spirit. That certainly is my experience. Jesus said “do not worry BEFOREHAND what you are to speak, for in that very hour, you will be given what to say”.

    God bless.

  • John Chingford

    Dan

    You quoted from 1 John 4:1-3 as evidence that you do not have the true spirit.

    Here is what it actually says. Let us look at the context:

    “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.”

    The context is about truth and false teachings. It is NOT discussing whether we are witnessing of our faith or not. The context is about WHAT WE PREACH. Do we confess the truth about Jesus or do we preach “another Jesus”. At the time John was writing that, there was a false religion (which originated in Babylon) called gnosticism. That religion declared that there was nothing good in the flesh. Only the spirit of man was good. They taught (as I understand it) that God could NOT have dwelt in a body, therefore Jesus was like an angel and his body did not rise from the dead. They effectively teach that Jesus was NOT God incarnate.

    This warning by John can be applied to any and every false religion that declares error/heresy about Jesus.

    I am sure that you believe in the TRUE Jesus. Therefore, those verses do not apply to you.

  • Truthful Conversation

    Dan,

    Welcome to DTW, but much more than that, welcome to the family of God!

    I know just what you mean. I used to shake when I was trying to share my beliefs with people at work. I used to be in my high school choir and I got extreme stage fright when we had to sing in public. My legs would shake so much I would almost fall over, LOL.

    One of the most difficult places to witness to people, is at work. You will have the fear that you might lose your job, or that people will mock you and reject you. I went through all that with the people I used to work with, you feel like an outsider and people are always looking for fault in your work. You just have to remember that Jesus knows how you feel and that He WILL protect you. God knows how hard it is for you, and I do not believe that He expects you to go rushing in where angels fear to tread! Keep praying and trusting God for opportunities to witness to your work mates and other friends. The Lord will open us these opportunities for you, and many times people will notice the change in you and they will come to you!

    As for you trying to teach non-believers, you cannot teach what you do not know. So it is good that you are reading and studing your Bible. Again, ask the Lord to bring verses to your memory and ask Him to do the talking for you. My personal experience is that when you STOP trying to do things on your own, and you BEGIN trusting Jesus, things fall into place.

    You can also tell people that you have recently been saved, and tell them about the difference Jesus has made to your life. If anyone tries to question you on things you do not know, tell them the truth, that you do not know, as you are newly saved. But you can always point them to someone who does know.

    I hope that you are blessed and encouraged on DTW. Pray for those that speak truth on here, in praying for others, you will gain strength.

    God bless you.

  • Dan

    Thank you so much Deborah, for taking the time and answering my questions. This blog is a life saver for me. I came very close to commiting suicide, cuz I had nowhere to turn. I started reading the articles on here and eventually picked up a Bible and started reading. Then one day, I asked Jesus to come into my life. I didn’t actually know what that meant but it felt like the right thing to do. If you’re gonna be reading the bible, you have to be holy. I accepted that I was ‘saved’. One thing bothered me the whole time though, I can’t witness to people about Jesus. Mostly because I don’t anything about Him because I rushed through the scriptures. And everytime I got to something about Jesus’ salvation, I kind of rushed through it again ‘cuz that’s not for me. That’s for the unsaved.’ Here I am, two days ago reading my bible and 1 John 4 pops up and it says: ‘Test the spirits. A person who is scared to witness about who Jesus really is, doen NOT have the spirit of God but the spirit of the anti-christ.’ And then followed 2 Cor 11 where Paul talks about ‘the other Jesus’ and ‘the other gospel’. Wait a minute, there’s ANOTHER Jesus? With ANOTHER gospel? That just pulled the rug right out from underneath me. (I was watching a video of Caryl Matrisciana at the time)

    Then I remebered all the Eastern meditation sessions I had and how I opened up my body for a Kunalini Awakening. I opened up my body to the snake. But then I ‘gave my heart to Jesus’ so what went wrong?

    Here I am now, it’s just after 3 in the morning and I’m praying. We’re so close to the rapture, and I’m praying, praying God please open my eyes so I can see that I’m on my way to hell! I’ve been deceived. I’ve been praying to the wrong Jesus all along. I’ve dedicated my life to him. Offered my kid to him the day she was born, a few months ago.

    I realize now, that this whole time that I’ve been reading the bible – was God reaching out to me. I’m not saved yet. The devil saw a gap, stepped in and has been worshipped since. Please pray with me that God will have mercy on my soul and open up my eyes so I can realize how deceived I really am. How can I pray to God to open up my eyes when there’s snake living inside of me, telling me that I’m fine. I’m saved. I’m on my way to heaven!

    Please pray for me.

  • Dan

    I was a member of an evangelical church once. I gave my heart to the Lord as a teenager, got baptised, filled with holy ghost and ‘spoke in tongues.’ I left a few years later questioning the very existence of God because of my experience there and I went and lived a rock ‘n roll lifestyle. Is this why I’m having trouble recomitting my life to God now? Because I’m one of those people Heb 10:26 – 31 talks about? Does that mean there is no salvation for me anymore? Please help to clarify.

    Thank you

  • John Chingford

    Dan, in case you missed my comment, here it is again.

    Dan

    You quoted from 1 John 4:1-3 as evidence that you do not have the true spirit.

    Here is what it actually says. Let us look at the context:

    “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.”

    The context is about truth and false teachings. It is NOT discussing whether we are witnessing of our faith or not. The context is about WHAT WE PREACH. Do we confess the truth about Jesus or do we preach “another Jesus”. At the time John was writing that, there was a false religion (which originated in Babylon) called gnosticism. That religion declared that there was nothing good in the flesh. Only the spirit of man was good. They taught (as I understand it) that God could NOT have dwelt in a body, therefore Jesus was like an angel and his body did not rise from the dead. They effectively teach that Jesus was NOT God incarnate.

    This warning by John can be applied to any and every false religion that declares error/heresy about Jesus.

    I am sure that you believe in the TRUE Jesus. Therefore, those verses do not apply to you.

  • John Chingford

    Dan, please also read this (just in case you missed it)

    You say that you don’t want to witness because of fear of the result. When Debs said “If you don’t want to talk about Jesus then there is something wrong” she was not referring to the “fear” factor. What she meant (surely) is that your love for Jesus is so great that you have a DESIRE to talk about Him. He is your Saviour, lover of your soul, your very spiritual life breath, so those who don’t get excited talking about Jesus or talking to Jesus are obviously lacking something important – maybe not born again. It certainly shows that they have not received the Holy Spirit.

    From what I read from your comments, YOU DO love Jesus and DO desire to talk about Him. Your problem is only that you have allowed fear to prevent you from sharing the message that you SO LONG TO SHARE.

    Would you desire to witness if it meant NO persecution? Of course you would! The key is to place yourself completely in God’s hands and trust Him entirely with the results. He has promised that you will not suffer MORE than you can cope with. If you step out and witness (in faith) He will give you the boldness and a JOY in doing so. As you step out He will fill you with the Holy Spirit and will take care of the outcome for you.

    How often did God (in the OT) and Jesus (in the NT) have to say “fear not”. Jesus said “fear not, I have overcome the World”. Jesus said “do not fear man, who can only (at worst) kill the body” Note: in brackets added by me for clarification. That may seem a big deal to you, but remember that LIFE AND DEATH is ultimately in GOD’S hands. They cannot do ANYTHING without God’s permission.

    The more you step out in boldness, the more help you will get from the Holy Spirit. That certainly is my experience. Jesus said “do not worry BEFOREHAND what you are to speak, for in that very hour, you will be given what to say”.

    God bless.

  • John Chingford

    Dan

    I send those 2 comments again URGENTLY because of what you wrote in your last 2 emails.

    You clearly need reassurance.

    Jesus said “how much more will the Heavenly Father give GOOD gifts to those who ask” He also (in context) said “if you ask for an egg will he give you a snake” and “how much more will the Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask”.

    Dan, Tthe Lord is not in the business of playing games with us. If you asked Jesus into your life and believed on Him as your personal Saviour then He WILL give you the Holy Spirit as a seal of your eternal salvation. Once a person comes to faith the OLD is replaced by the new creation in you. “the old has passed away”. You are no longer controlled by the enemy but have been cleansed Totally by Jesus. You now belong to another master JESUS.

    Hebrews 10 is NOT talking about believers losing their salvation. I will discuss this with you more later regarding what Hebrews 10 is discussing IN ITS RIGHT CONTEXT.

  • Dan

    Oh thank you so much John & Truthful Conversation for clearing this up. I have been sitting here behind my desk since 3 this morning, (it’s now 3:45 PM my time) reading, studying, praying. Not knowing what to believe. I live in a foreign country where churches conducting services in English are few and far between. I really, really thought that I was missing the bus here and I had no one to ask. I actually feel quite embarrased now. How could I doubt when I was so sure that I was praying to the right God and that He IS answering my prayers? Thank you so much again Jon & Truthful Conversation. You have no idea how relieved I am. God bless

  • John Chingford

    Dan

    Also be aware that the enemy (devil) is called the “accuser of the brethren” because he accuses us that we are not really saved. he is a liar and cannot actually remove our eternal security “nothing can separate us from God’s love” once we are saved, all he can do is try to convince us that we are not saved because it weakens us (as believers) in our testimony/witness if we believe the lies. The scriptures say that “greater is HE that is in us that he that is in the world”. That is saying that the enemy (devil) is limited in what he can do to us BECAUSE we have the Holy Spirit within.

    WE ARE SEALED and eternally protected. Do not believe the thoughts that come to your mind IF THEY ARE UNSCRIPTURAL. The BIBLE tells us the truth for example NOTHING can separate us from God’s love, that is IN Christ Jesus. If we have faith in Jesus for our salvation then nothing can separate us.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    Regarding Deliverance. What I would request you do is make a list of everything you did in your past (including the Kundilini thing) and ask Jesus for forgiveness of each and every single sin in your life (that you can remember) – that is if you have not done so already – to break any chains Satan has over you. Satan loves to hang on to us via things we have done where we have opened a door to let him into our life and we need to shake him off of us through the power of Jesus Christ’s mighty Name and close that door.

  • John Chingford

    Dan

    regarding Hebrews 10:26-31 especially verses 26-29

    “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?”

    If you consider the whole book of Hebrews and the history behind why the book was written, you will understand what the writer meant by “If we deliberately keep on sinning”. The sinning he is referring to is the sin of returning back to the OT laws. They were acting like the sacrifice of Jesus was not enough and that they needed to follow the law also (like Catholics today).

    “no sacrifice for sins is left”. Of course, if they do not consider the absolute perfect sacrifice as sufficient then what other sacrifice can replace it? There IS NO OTHER sacrifice good enough.

    “but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God

    The key words here are “enemies of God”. Born again believers (including you) ARE NOT ENEMIES OF GOD. The writer was using a bit of sarcasm or irony to show how ludicrous it was to return to OT law and animal sacrifice. He was showing them that there was nothing to be gained by it because (in sarcasm) he is saying, if you want to live like that (like the unbelievers) then you should understand that these unbelievers will be consumed so why follow their ways, do you also want to be consumed?”

    However, he goes on to say “How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?”

    He again is referring to those unbelievers that they will be severely dealt with for rejecting the ultimate perfect sacrifice. He is also pointing out that if unbelievers will be severely dealt with then what about believers who do the same thing? It is a rhetorical question in showing the logic that believers living like that makes no sense and will cause them to ALSO be punished by God. However, punishment of bellievers is WHOLLY different from the punishment of unbelievers. Believers will NOT be sent to hell but will be chastised by a loving Father. The key word is “deserves” to be punished.

    However, in chapter 12:6 it says “because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son”. Punishment does not mean hell for a believer.

    Then in the context of chapter 10 it says in verse 39 “But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved”. All born again believers are “those who believe and are saved” PERIOD!!!

    The writer to the Hebrews was specifically using a hypothetical argument to make a major point to the Judaizers in their midst who were troubling the true believers, advising the believers to NOT follow them. Why??? Because of all the reasons he gave throughout the book of Hebrews.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    Noooooooooooooo need to feel embarrassed – REJOICE! :) I am so happy you found this blog!

  • Dan

    Deborah, regarding your comment “Regarding Deliverance” – I do that daily now. Thank you. John, thank you for taking the time to explain. Much appreciated.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    There you are, we thought you had run away :) Happy you are back!

    Yes asking Jesus for forgiveness of our sins on a daily basis is crucial and mentioning what they are is also important. If you are having problems in certain areas ask Jesus to help you overcome these sins. Sometimes it might take a long time. For instance it took me months of praying and praying and praying for Jesus to deliver me from smoking (after I was saved). But I did not give up. In fact the more I tried to stop smoking by myself I found that I smoked MORE. So it was futile that I try stop smoking by my own flesh. I needed JESUS to rectify the problem.
    One day after praying and begging and pleading Jesus delivered me from smoking – what a miracle that was. My husband and I cried together as we thanked Jesus. My husband was so excited because he did not smoke and I was driving him out of the house lol. I started smoking when I was young out of rebellion and now as a Christian it was something that I had to stop, but only with Jesus’ help was it possible.

    We will ALWAYS be sinners (every day we will sin just by thinking the wrong things), but we will strive to be holy to the best our our ability and pleasing to Jesus. And this is not ‘works’ We are not working for our salvation. When we are saved, ‘conviction’ from the Holy Spirit and ‘repentance of sin’ comes with the package :)

  • salty

    Does anyone here ever discuss money/wealth?
    I have read Tithing – Are you really robbing God if you don’t? but this is not what I’m referring too. thx

  • Kenneth

    Reading thought some of the articels here I have a question.

    Which church should I go to as it seams that all churches are bad.

  • Kenneth

    I just mean that according to the articles here i am confused as to which church to go to and if I should go at all?

    Surely it is biblycal to be part of a Church, of the Bride of Jesus Christ?

  • Petrus

    tsalty wrote:

    Does anyone here ever discuss money/wealth?
    I have read Tithing – Are you really robbing God if you don’t? but this is not what I’m referring too. thx

    money is always an sensative toppic.

    Luke 16:9
    IN this scripture Jesus is trying to tell us that we must be willing to give money so that more people can hear the gospel and when you die you will meet those people in heaven who got saved because you were willing to give

    Matt 6:21

    Here Jesus is trying to tell us that if you put your treasures in the kingdom of God then your heart will be there also, but if you are not willing to give your money with an open heart to the kingdom of God then obviously your heart is not really in God’s kingdom

    Acts 2:44-45

    These poeple gave all their possessions

  • Dan

    Deborah, John & Truthful Conversation – I just wanted to thank you again for your love and support. And just to know that I can come here when I need a friend that knows what’s going on;-) Thanks for that. I am witnessing whenever I get a chance now. I’m also losing friends faster than you can say Jacky Chang, but the good thing about losing a friend is, they continue to live in your heart and memories. May God bless you.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Kennith

    We are in the Last Days Kennith. The chances of find a good church to go to is minimal. There are good ones out there but I can’t tell you where they are. You need to look for them. And use your discernment at all times.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    You have many friends here that you will one day meet in heaven! *hugs*

  • Kenneth

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Kennith
    We are in the Last Days Kennith. The chances of find a good church to go to is minimal. There are good ones out there but I can’t tell you where they are. You need to look for them. And use your discernment at all times.

    What Church do you attend?

    I think its important for a church to have a vision.

    Prov 29:18

    and the Gospel of Jesus must be part of the sermon every time.

    Also a church that prayes together stays together.

    and Love, the most important.

    Because

    Once the Gospel of Jesus has been heard over the all the world, then the end will come.

    Mat 24:14

    Church can also just be some believers who get together to praise and worship and fellowship and communion.

    1 Cor 11:23-26

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Kenneth

    A vision? You sound like Rick Warren’s Purpose Drive Church :)

    “A church that prays together stays together?” Really? Where does it say that in the bible?

    How about following the truth and nothing but the truth? A church that follows false teaching is not a church, no matter how much you pray.

    I attended a small home church until recently, when I realized that some of the members were quite heavy into mysticism – amazing what you find out when you question people directly.

  • Kenneth

    Dan wrote:

    I was a member of an evangelical church once. I gave my heart to the Lord as a teenager, got baptised, filled with holy ghost and ‘spoke in tongues.’ I left a few years later questioning the very existence of God because of my experience there and I went and lived a rock ‘n roll lifestyle. Is this why I’m having trouble recomitting my life to God now? Because I’m one of those people Heb 10:26 – 31 talks about? Does that mean there is no salvation for me anymore? Please help to clarify.
    Thank you

    Hi Dan

    You can always turn back to Jesus.

    The sins we did and our own unforgiveness is what makes it difficult to recommit. Find a friend you trust and confess those sins you did in secret to him/her and ask Jesus then for forgivenes which He will do. If eny doors were opened because of your sins you need to ask Jesus to close them for you.

    Now, if you have unforgiveness towards someone, does not matter what wrongs they did against you, you need to forgive then, and let them know you forgive them because then you will release them.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Kenneth

    Dan is ok now :)

  • Kenneth

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Kenneth
    Dan is ok now :)

    Amen

  • Kenneth

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Kenneth
    A vision? You sound like Rick Warren’s Purpose Drive Church :)
    “A church that prays together stays together?” Really? Where does it say that in the bible?
    How about following the truth and nothing but the truth? A church that follows false teaching is not a church, no matter how much you pray.
    I attended a small home church until recently, when I realized that some of the members were quite heavy into mysticism – amazing what you find out when you question people directly.

    Well I do not know who Rick Warren is.

    I am still new at church but our vision is basicly to bring the lost souls to Jesus and then to baptise and disciple them. Baptism is their own choice of course

    Its important to pray for one another and to pray together.

    Matt 18:19-20

    So what type of weird mystisicm were they into?

  • Kenneth

    I think its important to be in a Church

    Matt 16:18
    Matt 18:17
    Acts 2:47
    Acts 8:1-3
    Acts 9:31
    Acts 11:26
    Acts 12:5
    Acts 14:23
    Rom 16:1,4,5,16,23
    1Cor 4:17
    1Cor 11:16
    Col 1:18
    James 5:14
    Eph 3:21

    These are just some of the scripture in the NT about the church

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Kenneth

    You quote a whole bunch of verses but most of them don’t pertain to what you are trying to say.

  • Redeemed

    Kenneth, the Bible tells us not to “forsake the gathering together of ourselves”. In the current apostasy, many believers are not able to find a local church that teaches the Word and have to find fellowship any way they can.

    I don’t think you realize the extent of the apostasy and how hard pressed it is to find a church that teaches the true Gospel and the truth of the Word and holds to sound doctrine.

    If you are blessed with such a church that is wonderful, but from your comments, I would say that maybe you need to get up to speed on what is going on.

    Many believers are lonely and desire to be in a church but can’t find one that teaches the uncompromised Word of God and hasn’t gone Purpose Driven or emergent or dominionist, etc.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    >>Many believers are lonely and desire to be in a church but can’t find one that teaches the uncompromised Word of God

    That is only too true…. many are very very lonely and have searched and searched and come up with nothing.

    Besides, Matthew 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Those are Jesus’ Words and I believe Him.

  • Osito

    Hi Deborah,

    can you please tell me what is the difference between, storehouse, church, temple and synagogue?

    Thank you!

  • Dan

    Has anyone here read DISPENSATIONAL TRUTH by Clarence Larkin? Is it recommended? Thanks!

  • Redeemed

    Osito wrote:

    Hi Deborah,

    can you please tell me what is the difference between, storehouse, church, temple and synagogue?

    Thank you!

    Osito, Deborah probably has a much better answer, but I will try to cast some light on this. You are referring to an O.T. verse regarding the storehouse. It doesn’t really matter what they are referring to in the context of the N.T. church.

    Everything we have, all our possessions and blessings in our lives comes from the Lord. They are ALL His. Under grace, we are not commanded to give the Lord any certain amount. Some people still refer to the amount they designate to give back to the Lord as their tithe, but it is not legalism to do so. It may be 10% for one person, 15% for another or even 20%. It can depend upon whether one determines if it is on the gross or net, whatever.

    It is important that believers put the Lord first in their lives and that includes their finances. If someone is in a church, a local body where they fellowship and are fed,then they will want to support that work. Or they may also wish to support another ministry or missionary who is serving the Lord. It is all Spirit-led or should be. The Bible says that we should decrease while He increases in our lives. That means that we WANT to give more of our resources to the work of the Lord. It also could be to help the poor or someone in need.

    As long as the Lord leads, that is the important thing and that it is not a legalistically motivated action. The Word says that God loves a cheerful giver. That means that we get JOY from giving to the Lord and maybe it will require sacrifice from us for some luxury or non-essential in our lives or perhaps some way we may be wasting funds which is sinful.

    I hope this is helpful! I haven’t taken time to read through all comments regarding this, but hope what I said makes sense.

  • Redeemed

    Kenneth wrote:

    I just mean that according to the articles here i am confused as to which church to go to and if I should go at all?

    Surely it is biblycal to be part of a Church, of the Bride of Jesus Christ?

    Kenneth, just because a place is called a church with a little “c”, that does not mean it is in the Church with a big “C”.
    As to your confusion, really you have to sort it out with the Lord’s guidance. You should investigate a church to see if they teach the Bible, and have sound doctrine. If so, it would be worth a visit to check it out. Don’t be surprised if you can’t find such a place. They may sound good on the surface, but then you see red flags as to the teachers they endorse and the books they recommend.

    This calls for great discernment. Oftentimes it is worth a visit with the pastor to pick his brain and see what he believes. It should be a careful and prayerful process.

  • Hanelie

    Redeemed wrote:

    Many believers are lonely and desire to be in a church but can’t find one that teaches the uncompromised Word of God and hasn’t gone Purpose Driven or emergent or dominionist, etc.

    Oh, this really resonates with me. We left the “church” we were in a while ago and have been waiting for the Lord to guide us to a church since, but for now He keeps saying “Come to Me. Learn from Me.” I have realized that I really need Him to rework my entire faith vocabulary, that even words such as “faith” and “love” need to be redefined by Him as He meant it, and not as I had learned it.

    I also came across an interesting in the Afrikaans translation of the Bible. The word “kerk” (church) never appears in the 1953 translation. In each case “ekklesia” has been translated to “gemeente” (assembly).

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    Nope, I have not read it. But if you are going to read it, take your bible and have it ready and instead of reading this book, study it to see if what it says is true ok? A book might be 90% ok but there is 10% dodgy stuff and that’s what you need to pin point for your own safety.

  • Paul (Continue in His Word)

    Dan wrote:
    “Has anyone here read DISPENSATIONAL TRUTH by Clarence Larkin? Is it recommended? Thanks!”

    Dan, run away from this man. He is one of the most dangerous man I have ever read. I read some excerpts of the book and was HORRIFIED!
    This book is right from the pit of hell. Don’t buy it, don’t read it. don’t read anything written by this evil man.
    Let me give only 2 examples, and I will stop. There are tons of others.

    In that evil book, Larking teaches an old, pre-Adamic earth, with a pre-Adamic humanity that was allegedly judged and destroyed by fire by God.
    He teaches that the “Sons of God” of Genesis 6 were fallen angels who incarnated themselves to marry the “Daughters of men” and produce these giants (monsters) who must have been half demons/half men. Larking teaches that the same thing will happen in the end times (that is, in the days we are living). This is pure Satan worship, because what he is saying is that Satan has the power to create (to beget). God ALONE has the power to create. All things, visible and invisible were created by Him (Jesus) and for Him. He created the angels (spirit world) of which some fell and became demons, he created the visible world (see Gen 1:1-Gen 2:7). Satan never created nothing, neither visible nor invisible, and never will. he is a fallen angel. Jesus-Christ is the ONLY begotten son of God. he is the only one from the spirit world (God is Spirit) who incarnated Himself. And forever He will be The Son of God AND The Son of Man, sited at the right hand of God the Father. Amen.
    Dan, read the account of the man possessed by Legion in Mark 5:1-20, and compare with this satanic doctrine of demons incarnating themselves, and you will understand something of what I am talking about.

    Add to that the AUTHORITATIVE statement of none else than our Lord and Saviour Jesus-Christ Himself who said angels do NOT marry (remember, demons are fallen angels)

    Larking was a minister of Satan of the worst kind, masquerading as a minister of Christ.

  • Dan

    Thanks Deborah, will do. Can a christian be friends with atheists? I have witnessed to this person, he refuses to even listen. He’s asking me if Jesus is really so full of love, why I can’t be friends with him just because he doesn’t believe in God. I can tell this is really bothering him. Can someone please point me in a direction here as far as scripture goes?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    >> Can a christian be friends with atheists?

    Yes most definitely if its not going to affect your faith i.e., it’s not going to cause you to stumble. You will find out soon enough if your friendship with this guy is worth it or not… If you find that his darkness is encroaching on your light, you will have to walk away. That statement of ‘if Jesus so really full of love….why can’t yoube friends with him’ sounds like Satan talking to me. Why is this guy even bothered with Jesus’ love if he is an atheist. If he seems REALLY bothered then test him out, see where this goes, but I have a feeling it’s not going to go where you want it to and you are going to come off second best. Just letting you know… BUT then maybe a miracle happens and he listens to what you have to say to him!

  • Dan

    Thanks! That’s a big help.

  • Carolyn

    Paul: you said: “Larking was a minister of Satan of the worst kind, masquerading as a minister of Christ.”

    These are pretty serious charges to level at someone whose name you are spelling wrong. Have you read his book or are you going by hearsay?

    Even if we disagree with some of his ideas, is the man’s gospel of Christ correct? This is the criteria by which he should be judged. Are his teachings leading away from the doctrines of Christ? Is he adding to the gospel of salvation?

    There is much that we don’t know about what happened with the “sons of God” marrying the “daughters of men”. And today there is much being done behind closed doors in the area of biogenics and cloning from DNA “information” producing soulless, conscious-less, robotic-type individuals being passed off as humans. Another reason that judgment is near at hand. There are things we don’t know…for sure…and we should admit it. Facts are facts. Speculation is speculation on both sides of an argument.

    But be careful when you slap a label on someone because he has a few different ideas (apart from salvation) than you do. We are not to judge by unknowns and irrational arguments producing fear mongering and false accusations.

    If Larkin is a false teacher, produce logical, factual evidence, please.

  • Redeemed

    Reply to Paul’s #240

    Dan

    This comes from someone who calls Dave Hunt a wolf. Dan, I hope you will consider the source.

    Yes, Paul is correct that Larkin (not Larking) did subscribe to what is known as the “Gap Theory”. This has been a topic of discussion amongst Bible scholars for quite some time.

    I do not believe that this is grounds to outright reject Larkin’s teachings on dispensational theology and label him “a minister of Satan”. Again, I ask you Paul: Do YOU have any blind spots?

    You would have been correct to alert Dan about the “Gap Theory” but to pronounce judgment on Larkin based on this was arrogant on your part.

    I recommend Larkin for his excellent teachings on dispensational truth and his eschalogical views. It is rare to find such solid teaching today except in those who have passed from the scene. I highly doubt that Dan or anyone else would be harmed by Larkin’s “Dispensational Truth”.

    Those who condemn Larkin always return to the tired old argument of the Scofield/Darby influence. Another harsh critic of Larkin also puts H.A. Ironside in the same category and labels him as a false teacher, but manages to misspell his name repeatedly as “Ironsides”.

    I have personally been edified by both Ironside and Larkin, but always with their commentaries in one hand and the Word of God as the supreme authority in the other. I have not detected any checking of the Holy Spirit as I have read their commentaries, only a confirmation. I would never say they are perfect because the only perfect tool we have is the Bible in a proper translation.

    Paul, you are causing confusion and discord by your harsh and condemning comments about men of God who operated in the light they were given. I do not idolize them or venerate them – they would have rejected any attempts to do so and this is clearly reflected in their writings.

  • Carolyn

    Dan:

    From experience, I will tell you that you have a pretty good shot at expressing your views for the first couple of months, (I’m married to an unbeliever), but after that you will be shut down. You will put up (with accusations, abuse or malicious behaviour) or you will shut up.

    Another possibility is that he will simply be a distraction, taking up your time and your interests away from what is important (God’s Word and friendship with other believers). In one case, for me, the friend listened with rapt attention to what I had to say and we made a pact not to judge or control one another. However, I noticed that in the end, we both came under the influence of a third party who WAS willing to judge and control.

    Ezekiel 33:32
    Indeed, to them you are nothing more than one who sings love songs with a beautiful voice and plays an instrument well, for they hear your words but do not put them into practice.

    Read the verse below VERY carefully and prayerfully, because it means what it says and says what it means. I have learned this truth the hard way. To be “associated with” is different than being “close buddies”. My advice…be friendly but keep your distance. Guard your heart. Don’t be won over by human arguments…because truth is not ambiguous. Someone will end up influencing the other…and historically, bad behaviour corrupts good behaviour. Leaven corrupts the whole batch. Just some thoughts…

    2 Corinthians 6:14
    Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

  • Carolyn

    Paul, since I don’t want you to hate me, I want to soften my words to you. I realize that we all make mistakes. I made another one in my blog #244 to you when using the word “conscious-less” when I meant “conscience-less”. And because I make so many mistakes I am “pride-less”.

    I was just remembering that after leaving the Charismatic camp, I took up some of the angry, reactionary, accusatory words of those who seemed to be knowledgable in the discernment world. Now I understand that they were not. They were just venting their own propaganda.

    I did google Clarence Larkin and he sounds pretty orthodox. He died in 1924, so he is not available for comment and unable to defend the criticisms levelled against him, but his legacy is there for all to see.

    As you shared earlier, you were mixed up in a cult for a few years and are getting back into the more fundamental Christian blogosphere. How easy it is, when starting out in the discernment world, to take information at face value without checking out the facts for ourselves and to take up the taunts of controversial, argumentative people. We are learning to discern in love.

  • Paul (Continue in His Word)

    I want first to apologize to all those I have hurt by my comment about Larkin, and withdraw those comments. I was too offended and horrified by what I read in Dispensational Truth (http://servantsplace.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Dispensational-Truth-Clarence-Larkin.pdf).
    The thing is, I have become so allergic to false teaching, that I can be too quick to label someone a false teacher.

    Sure I have many blind spots. I am the chief of sinners. I sin daily. I am a hell deserving sinner, save the Grace of God through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ His Son.

    I would agree with Redeemed that he operated in the light he was given.

    My point about doctrine is this: If someone does not know, let him keep quiet and search the Scriptures. But what we see often is people put forward their “vain imaginations” and present them as doctrinal truths. That has been my observation. I believe that we have to make due diligence to make our doctrine 100% correct, be quick to correct ourselves when we find out or someone shows us our error. We better let the Bible speak for itself to everyone who is born of God and indwelt with the Holy Spirit of Truth. That is why I consider Study Bibles an abomination (ie Bibles filled with men’s thoughts ,ideas, interpretations). I have nothing against good commentaries provided they are not mingled with Scripture.

    And the following verse is a very important verse in Scripture.

    Deut 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

    God has not revealed everything to mankind in Scripture (of course there are no more new revelations today, apart from Scripture). God has not revealed to us when He created the spirits world (angels, heavenly hosts) because we do not need them to “do all the words of this law”. The secret things must remain to the Lord alone, and those that are revealed to us. Larkin went too far in his “vain imaginations” into the secret things of God.
    I think he landed in a territory where he will find common ground with those who believe in reincarnation or evolution or Aliens or calvinism for example. You just need to take some of his doctrines and just think a little bit about their potential necessary implications.

    Carolyn, if Satan had the power to create, he would fill this world with his creation in a split second. In the same manner, if Satan had the power to kill the lost (who are under his dominion), he would sweep them into hell in a split second.
    Do you believe Genesis 1? I know you do. See all the “after his kind”. Today science is trying to cause us to doubt God. I would say “let God be true and every man a liar”

    God help us.

  • Dan

    Thanks “Redeemed”, that is good and sound advice. I have decided to get a more solid foundation in the bible, before reading other material. @ Carolyn: (“associated with” is different than being “close buddies”. My advice…be friendly but keep your distance. Guard your heart. Don’t be won over by human arguments…) Thank you, this rings very true. This was my original thought thought and now you have confirmed it.

    Another question here I hope someone can help me clear up please. In (Joh 14:3)Jesus says He will go and prepare a place for us and then come back to get us so that we can be with Him. But He is coming back to establish His kingdom on earth? What is this refering to then?

  • Paul (Continue in His Word)

    Carolyn said:
    “There is much that we don’t know about what happened with the “sons of God” marrying the “daughters of men”.”

    Debs has a good article here about that topic. Also, reread my comment 240 above.

    Simply put, these “Sons of God” where fallen descendants of Adam (like you and me), who needed salvation by grace alone through faith alone in the Promised Seed of the woman (Jesus Christ).
    For them too, the Lord was “not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
    For them too “God so loved [them], that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever [they included, all human beings created by God] believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
    Do you see how Larkin’s doctrine will lean towards calvinism? “His” incarnated demons would of necessity have been predestined for the lake of fire…

  • Dan

    I have a question. On the day of the Rapture, the dead in Christ will arise and together with the bride – will depart for heaven. But with the Second Coming, ALL these people will return WITH Christ to live in His new Kingdom on earth? Is that correct? If so that means that all those verses in the Bible about Him “preparing a feast in heaven”, is refering to what we’ll be doing during the period AFTER the Rapture and BEFORE the Return to earth. Am I way off here? This also means that “going to heaven when you die” – is a myth. Because the scriptures clearly say “on that day the dead shall arise”?

  • Carolyn

    Paul…there are two sides to this argument. Who were the Sons of God? Were they angels transforming themselves into men? Why is there an obvious distinction made between the “Sons of GOD” and the “daughters of MEN”? What does it mean: they left their first estate?
    Jude 1:6
    And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    I think we can discuss these things but what we should NOT do, is to discount the thoughts of other Christians on the basis of our own bias. I have a bias toward thinking that the angels actually mated with humans. I will not be shaken from my point of view by use of sarcasm. I am not closed to other points of view. For me it is information resides in the circle of speculation. We are not seeing everything clearly. So it’s not that important for me to “win the argument”. I see a little at a time.

    Can we explain the UFO phenomenon? I believe they are demons masquerading as angels of light. What are they up to? Don’t know for sure. Can we explain the rise in occult phenomenon? No…but we can see it. We can observe that it happening. And biblically, it is related to the rise of evil in the last days.

    From my perspective, I see what’s going on today and the battle in the spiritual world is increasingly fierce. It revolves around Israel (God’s land which has become a cup of trembling to the whole world) and the rebirth of that tiny nation. I am watching with rapt attention. I can’t comprehend it yet, but I can predict the final outcome because the Bible tells us in no uncertain terms. Hallelujah!

  • Carolyn

    Dan, to me, figuring out the whole end times scenario is like a puzzle. First you find all the edge pieces and then you start filling in the story. Sometimes, you get a piece in the wrong place. It seemed to fit but then you find out it wasn’t quite right. As time goes on, more and more of the pieces fit and as the picture begins to come together, the excitement builds. 30 years ago, it was hard to know where to start…now we’re flying.

    Yes, Christ went to prepare a place for us. That’s a certainty.
    Being caught up to meet him in the air, a certainty.
    Marriage supper of the lamb…a certainty.
    Coming back with Christ ….a certainty.

    Your question: “Going to heaven when you die is a myth? First…answer me these questions:
    What does it mean to absent from the body and present with the Lord?
    How can God be in the past, present and future all at the same time?
    What is eternity outside of time?
    Is time simply “a measurement of change”?

    See how complicated it gets? What we need to deal with are certainties first…and then the unknowns will fall into place.

  • Redeemed

    Dan wrote:

    I have a question. On the day of the Rapture, the dead in Christ will arise and together with the bride – will depart for heaven. But with the Second Coming, ALL these people will return WITH Christ to live in His new Kingdom on earth? Is that correct? If so that means that all those verses in the Bible about Him “preparing a feast in heaven”, is refering to what we’ll be doing during the period AFTER the Rapture and BEFORE the Return to earth. Am I way off here? This also means that “going to heaven when you die” – is a myth. Because the scriptures clearly say “on that day the dead shall arise”?

    Dan, as I understand it you have it right. You ask good questions! I am not a Bible scholar by any definition, but will attempt to answer. Others may have better explanations.

    When someone dies their spirits are taken to be with the Lord but their physical bodies are still in the grave. The living Church will be raptured and given new glorified bodies instantly. The dead in Christ will be resurrected first and given new bodies. Their spirits are in heaven.

    The tribulation saints, those who are martyred for their faith during the Great Tribulation will receive their glorified bodies later.

    The Apostle Paul speaks of visiting the throne of God in 2 Corinthians Chapter 12. Also check out Philippians 1:23 where he reaffirms his greater desire to depart from his earthly life and be with Christ. That would not indicate that he would be asleep in the grave.

    There is a false teaching of “soul sleep” in cults such as 7th Day Adventism.

    One can speculate as to how those who have passed on now appear in heaven. That is a mystery, but the Bible often speaks of robes of righteousness. I prefer to think that the departed saints are clothed in the righteousness of Christ. What that looks like is empty speculation, but I trust that the Lord has them “covered”. LOL

  • JJ

    I have a question on 1 cor 13:10. The perfect the verse refers to, my understanding of this verse is that the perfect is the New Testamen, the Bible. I am correct in my understanding of this.

    Now verse 12 states “For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.”
    Some bible commentries suggest that verse 12 makes it unlikely that the perfect is the Bible. Does the perfect mean an imperfect age, and that the perfect will only happen at the Second coming of Christ?

    If we look at Eph 4:11-13 “11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,”

    The apostals, prophets, evangelists etc. were given to build the body of Christ to maturity. Does the maturity in eph 4:13 refer to the perfect in 1 cor 13:10. And does this maturity of the body of Christ also refer to 1 cor 13:12?

    In light of this verses, is the perfect the Bible, or the second coming of Christ? Is eph 4:13 also a reference to completion of the new testament, or the second coming of Christ?

    There seems to be different opinions around these verses. Your input will be highly appreciated.

  • Colin Ford

    Deborah,
    I think it good that Paul has retracted his language regarding Clarence Larkin.
    Indeed it was very, very strong! However, I can see where he was coming from, somewhat.
    Larkin, I understand, made a good living, selling many books and his celebrated ‘Prophetic Charts’.
    There seem to many self styled ‘Biblicists’ around who are quick to criticise others who hold to a different understanding of Scripture, and dare not question their own belief system.
    We need not add to the division that already exists in the body of Christ.
    Dispensationalism, from my understanding (and many, many others),is a man made system of theology, and many errant doctrines flow from it.
    Not least soteriology.
    A contributor of yours, Carolyn, touched on this very subject in comment 244.
    She quotes; ‘Is he adding to the gospel of salvation?’ To which my answer is a resounding ‘YES’.
    It is NOT just Larkin, it is Dispensationlism as a whole. It teaches two ways of salvation.
    Dispensationalism separates the Church from Israel, law from grace, and part of it’s core theology is that the Old Testament Saints are not saved by the blood of Jesus, but by the blood of bulls and goats.
    The Old Testament Saints will be among those who will rise first in 1 Thessalonians 4.16…

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Carolyn

    Please read http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/01/04/jacob-prasch-chuck-missler-preach-the-false-teaching-of-demonic-nephilim-returning-in-end-times/ it explains everything. There IS a correct Biblical explanation for the Nephilim and UFO’s etc etc etc.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    >> I have a question. On the day of the Rapture, the dead in Christ will arise and together with the bride – will depart for heaven. But with the Second Coming, ALL these people will return WITH Christ to live in His new Kingdom on earth? Is that correct? If so that means that all those verses in the Bible about Him “preparing a feast in heaven”, is refering to what we’ll be doing during the period AFTER the Rapture and BEFORE the Return to earth. Am I way off here? This also means that “going to heaven when you die” – is a myth. Because the scriptures clearly say “on that day the dead shall arise”?

    It’s not complicated as Carolyn would like to think. The Bible EXPLAINS EVERYTHING. You are correct in your thinking regarding the rapture and the marriage supper etc etc. Now…

    “There are some people who were caught up in the first Resurrection. At the time of Jesus’ resurrection, all the righteous dead who had lived from the day of Adam were also resurrected. To those who lived before the resurrection of Christ (See Matthew 27:52-53)

    The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).

    Until the final resurrection, though, there is a temporary heaven—paradise (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4) and a temporary hell—Hades (Revelation 1:18; 20:13-14). As can be clearly seen in Luke 16:19-31, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping. It could be said, though, that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is in paradise or Hades. At the resurrection, this body is “awakened” and transformed into the everlasting body a person will possess for eternity, whether in heaven or hell. Those who were in paradise will be sent to the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Those who were in Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not a person trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation. —http://www.gotquestions.org/soul-sleep.html (please note this is a Calvinist website so use caution when browsing)”

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Colin

    I say this again, YOU in your own mind THINK that dispensationalism teaches two ways of salvation. BUT IT DOES NOT. You do not understand what you are talking about. John already EXPLAINED to you that what you are talking is a load of rubbish, but yet you keep insisting on spewing your lies. You say, “Dispensationalism separates the Church from Israel, law from grace, and part of it’s core theology is that the Old Testament Saints are not saved by the blood of Jesus, but by the blood of bulls and goats.” RUBBISH! But you REFUSE TO LISTEN TO TRUTH. Now mention this again on this blog and I will ban you from commenting here again. You are like a little ‘false teacher’ on this blog – I’ve kept you here because I thought you would pay attention to BIBLICAL REASON but I see you are as blind as a bat.

  • Redeemed

    Colin Ford wrote:

    Deborah,
    I think it good that Paul has retracted his language regarding Clarence Larkin.
    Indeed it was very, very strong! However, I can see where he was coming from, somewhat.
    Larkin, I understand, made a good living, selling many books and his celebrated ‘Prophetic Charts’.
    There seem to many self styled ‘Biblicists’ around who are quick to criticise others who hold to a different understanding of Scripture, and dare not question their own belief system.
    We need not add to the division that already exists in the body of Christ.
    Dispensationalism, from my understanding (and many, many others),is a man made system of theology, and many errant doctrines flow from it.
    Not least soteriology.
    A contributor of yours, Carolyn, touched on this very subject in comment 244.
    She quotes; ‘Is he adding to the gospel of salvation?’ To which my answer is a resounding ‘YES’.
    It is NOT just Larkin, it is Dispensationlism as a whole. It teaches two ways of salvation.
    Dispensationalism separates the Church from Israel, law from grace, and part of it’s core theology is that the Old Testament Saints are not saved by the blood of Jesus, but by the blood of bulls and goats.
    The Old Testament Saints will be among those who will rise first in 1 Thessalonians 4.16…

    Colin, regarding Larkin, as far as I can see, he taught salvation by grace and faith correctly and did NOT preach a false gospel. I am sorry, but you are confused. Also, Larkin was not a man who served the Lord for personal gain. He was a pastor for many years but then dedicated himself fulltime to his written works and diagrams so he could keep up with the demand. He was not out hawking his wares – God stirred hearts and they were hungry for the truth. God gave him an uncanny ability to make illustrations and it was quite laborious as they were so detailed and reguired much care and study.

    The OT saints were saved by FAITH, that was the continuous thread throughout all the dispensations. The blood sacrifices were always to point toward the Lamb of God Who was sacrificed. Also, the OT saints were awaiting the Savior in the “bosom of Abraham” until He came for them after His crucifixion. They are now with Him in heaven.

    Colin, you just do not understand the true meaning of biblical dispensationalism and sadly, you seem to be confused about many things. If you could look past all the negative rhetoric, you would find the truth. I pray that you can and will.

  • Carolyn

    Debs:

    *crest fallen*

    I don’t mean to say it’s complicated…just that we complicate it by getting ahead of ourselves with our questions. When you start out in eschatology (the study of end times) you want to see the whole picture in the first sitting. God doesn’t work with us that way…he puts the picture together in a “faith” building way. It’s not just information. End times prophetic teaching is about God’s plans and purposes for mankind.

  • Dan

    Thank you to everyone who’s always been so helpful on this blog. I’m so thankful to the Lord for that. When I first started reading my bible, I read through the New Testament like a book. It was very interesting and I kept going. Now, the Word has come alive and it is impossible to put my bible down. Here’s another question I hope someone can help to answer please. When the Anti Christ arrives, will the Jews accept him as the Messiah? Is there scripture to support if so?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    Jews await a Messiah, but they are not looking for Jesus Christ, so the man to come and fulfill these prophecies for them, to us is the Anti-Christ – and they will accept him.

    ———-

    Judaism teaches that the messiah will fulfill the following prophecies:
    * The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)
    * Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
    * The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)
    * He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10)
    * The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with “fear of God” (Isaiah 11:2)
    * Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
    * Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
    * He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
    * All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
    * Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)
    * There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
    * All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
    * The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
    * He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)
    * Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)
    * The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
    * The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
    * Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
    * The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot
    * He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)
    * Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)
    * He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)
    * He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)

    —————

    Will the anti-Christ be a Jew or not, that I can not answer… he might very well be a fake Jew, someone with a fake Jewish lineage: John 5:43 and Jesus said, “I have come in my Father’s name and you have received me not. If another shall come in his own name, him will you receive.

    Anti-Christ will confirm a 7 year peace treaty (Start of Tribulation) and in the middle of the week (3.5 years) he will stand in temple and declare himself to be God: Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    When the anti-Christ enters the temple and declares himself to be God, Judeans must flee to the mountains: Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains

  • Dan

    I know a lot of people who used to go to church but couldn’t find God there. Too many false teachings, dead religious customs etc. We all know the drill. Some of these people have turned to Darwinism for answers, others just gave up searching all together. I don’t know if this is way off or not. Please help me if I am. Jesus was not crucified by unbelievers, He was crucified by the church leaders (Matt 20:18) In an effort to witness to these people, is it unbiblical to say that God exists outside of organised religion? “Organized religion” in the sense of dead, man – made systems.

  • Carolyn

    Dan, re comment #265: consider these verses:

    Acts 7:48
    Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

    Acts 17:24
    God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

    The Church is not a building. We sometimes meet in buildings. But the Church is Christ’s body, made up of individuals who believe God’s Word. In Acts, they met in homes, on river banks or wherever they could to strengthen each other’s faith, to sing hymns or study Scripture. Today we meet on the internet as well.

    The fact that people are not finding God in organized religious institutions should tell us the truth about it. He is not to be found there. He is found in a personal relationship as you read the Word…just what you are doing. The fact that you can’t stop reading the Word proves that you have a living faith that needs spiritual food. Read, my friend. Read for your life!

    Become convinced of what you believe first. Then you will witness naturally.

  • John Chingford

    re comments 256 and 260

    Hi Colin

    I would like to give a more simplified version of dispensationalism (as I understand it) bringing clarity to the subject.

    (Debs would you please also use this as a separate article because so many people get us completely wrong.

    Simplified Explanation of Dispensationalism

    A dispensation is a specific period of time different from other periods of time. It also could be described as various stages of history, in God’s dealings with mankind.

    For example, No-one can deny that there was a period of time BEFORE Christ and a period of time AFTER Christ. Therefore, that gives us at least 2 dispensations of time. Was the time before Christ the same or different from how things were afterwards? No-one can deny that there was a difference SURELY?

    It is just a question of describing what the differences were and to what extent. This at its basics is the thinking behind dispensational doctrine. The extent of these differences is debatable. Those who recognise these dispensations have wide and various views on these things. You cannot label us or put us in specific boxes because we all are dedicated to the theology of the BIBLE alone and therefore may interpret slightly differently, but we all recognise TRUTHFULLY that there ARE different stages in God’s dealings with mankind.

    I will now look beyond those 2 main dispensations, to break them into other stages.

    Can anyone deny that there was a period of time BEFORE the Law of Moses was introduced? Or can it be denied that there was a period of time before sin entered the world? (albeit very brief period of time). Can anyone deny that there was a period of time After the final OT book was written and the beginning of the NT times (approx. 400 years)? What about the VERY UNIQUE period of time period of time when Jesus lived on Earth and especially the period of 3.5 (or so) years of ministry? Then what about the period of time from the destruction of Jerusalem (AD 70) until now? Then what about the dark ages of the Catholic reign of terror? What about the period of time since the reformation? There are many more and they ALL have differences.
    These are all separate periods of time in which God was at work in different ways and through different stages. All of these stages can be joined together into ONE overall eternal plan of redemption for mankind (past, present, future).

    If you do not believe that God works in different ways, consider this text from Hebrews 1:1-2

    “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;”

    There you have it! “in time past”, “in these last days”. Here is mentioned 2 dispensations and He spoke in “divers manners” ie in different ways!!!

    Colin, do not discard dispensational doctrine JUST BECAUSE IT SEEMS irrational to you. The FACT IS the bible tells us that there were different stages in God’s whole plan of redemption and it is blatantly clear (anyway) when we look throughout history.

    He planned according to His foreknowledge of how man would respond throughout history based upon the freewill He gave them. The WHOLE plan was fulfilled (for ALL time (past, present, future) through Jesus, but until that perfect time of sacrifice everything else revolved around that once (and for all time) sacrifice. It STILL revolves around it. The dispensations simply show us the different stages or ways that God led mankind to that perfect time in history.

    It required and has always required faith, but for a period of time God gave the Law for the purpose of revealing how sinful man is and why he/she needs salvation. Jesus came to save us and NOW we are in a period of time spreading the good news and waiting for the Return.

    When we look at (and honestly admit that there is) so many different stages (periods of time) throughout the Bible years, why should it be so difficult to understand that there can be more periods to come, such as a rapture and the post church Tribulation age, followed by the Millennium reign of Christ?

  • Osito

    Dan, i think there s a lot of these churches where you would not find God but you will find a lot of money there.

    I was on dream week one s and the pastor told the people they must tithe that every one can drive merc s not only the pastors. They dont tell you it works the other way around. Like dont tithe and you drive merc and pastor not.

    It s all about the MONEY, i think if you take away the money you going to take a lot of these churches away.

  • Dan

    Thank you for the clear explanation Deborah.

  • Robbie

    Hey Dan.
    I know exactly how you feel/think. I found when one leaves a “dead” church one seems to grow faster spiritually. Most claim to be raising the dead while they can’t even stir the living?
    I am not saying all churches are dead. What I do know is that God does not reside in man-made buildings.

    The yes… I heard nasty things about the last days spirits of religion.

  • Dan

    Thanks again for the replies. I’m having difficulties with “The Armor of God” How do you put it on? How exactely do you use it? The Holy Spirit keeps reminding me about this and I know I need this more than ever. Can someone please steer me in the right direction? I’ve read (Ephesians 6:17))(1 Thess 5)I need a practical approach please.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    Yes the Armour of God is verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry important for a Christian…

    Please read: Scripture – Be of Sober Spirit, Take up the Full Armour of God read this article as well: The Armor of God (Ephesians 6:10-18)

  • Louise

    It has come to my attention that many well meaning Christians are forsaking the rapture and are turning against those of us who support it. The anger and jealousy they show towards those who support it has me reeling in shock and dismay. For those of you who know Alex Jones he has a new video out on the rapture. He is very much against it and through this video it is causing harm amongst the brethren. I took the liberty in listening to it for 15 minutes and found myself getting angrier and angrier. Yes, I opted out and did not finish listening to it. The 2 Baptist preacher who ranted over the fraud beliefs of the rapture allowed me to see that we will be hated for our beliefs, even from those who call themselves Christians. We who support and believe in the rapture are under persecution from our own and its going to get worse. So hang in there and put on the armour of GOD. Its going to be a rough ride in the next few years.

  • Hi Louise and anyone else who wants to answer these questions,

    If someone use to believe in the pre-trib rapture and all its wonderfulness then why would they turn away from it? Why would someone be jealous of someone who believes in the pre-trib rapture especially if they use to believe it themselves and has the option to keep on believing it? And why would someone be angry and become a hater toward someone who believes the pre-trib rapture if they once believed it themselves?

    The new video is not Alex Jones video it is created by someone else; Alex is just promoting it.

  • Colin Ford

    John,

    Thank you for taking the time to explain these things! However, I like your caveat; “as I understand it”. The problem is just that, there are multiple understandings of this theological system.

    I heartily agree with you that there are different dispensations throughout history.
    As you correctly say, ultimately there are only two major dispensations of time, before, and after the cross; even the secular world attests to this veritable fact, with the dating system and calendars etc.

    We look back to the cross, all the OT saints (without distinction) looked forward to the cross. 1 Peter 1.10-12 and Matthew 13.17 are Scriptures that verify this.
    As you rightly say there are indeed many, many distinct periods of time throughout history that can be classified as different dispensations. To avoid more confusion, when discussing THE theological system; I employ a capital D.
    Hebrews 1.1-2 clearly delineates the greater light we have today, we can look back to His finished work on the cross, and indeed God DID deal in ‘divers manners’ in different periods of time. Clearly there was a pre Mosaic dispensation, a Mosaic dispensation, and now there is a Church dispensation. There will be a millennial dispensation. Of course Dispensationalist theologians can, and do mark off periods of time in their various and different ways, to suit their schemes. E.W.Bullinger being the most extreme. I understand Harry Ironside even called his scheme ‘Satanic’!
    I don’t find dividing different periods of time into separate dispensations unbiblical. No, not at all, it is Dispensationalism as a theology that I disagree with. It is the root of this theology that is wrong; creating two separate people groups: The Church and Israel.
    The Dispensationalist, by his distinction between Israel and the Church, holds that the Church is a new phenomenon which is not at all a continuation or development of anything that has gone before. He views the Church as a new spiritual body of people, which began on the Day of Pentecost. He disagrees with Covenant Theology, which holds that on the Day of Pentecost God changed the outward administrations of the Covenant of Grace and began to admit great numbers of Gentiles into the body of His covenant people again. The Dispensationalist contends, rather, that God put one group aside and started fresh with a new group, and that these two groups are unrelated. He rejects Covenant Theology’s insistence upon ONE body of saved people.
    To quote Charles Ryrie, a noted Dispensational theologian; “Dispensationalism insists that the people of God who have been baptised into the Body of Christ and who thus form the Church are distinct from saints of other days or even of a future time”. (Dispensationalism today, Chicago, Moody Press).
    J.N. Darby,in his new theology, limited the spiritual benefits of union with Christ to the New Testament Church. They are the ones seated in the heavenlies not the Old Testament saints, Jews etc. Dispensationalists believe that their spiritual benefits do not cross the lines , whether past or future, of the time period from Pentecost to their pretribulation rapture.
    Yet how differently does the New Testament depict the Church! Does not the Bible describe the NT Church as a people made up of Jews, having historically received and embraced their promises in Christ, (albeit that this group within the nation is in the minority, the majority now being in blindness, Romans 11.7), and of Gentiles, who for the most part were not privileged to hear and partake of the grace of God, but are now made nigh, because of the good news of Christ, this same gospel, has been preached unto them! The gospel truths were formally almost the exclusive property of the Jews, in their types and prophecies, are now proclaimed throughout the world, the types and shadows being done away. Yes the New Testament indeed does present glorious truths to the Gentiles, yet these truths are not new. What is new is that Gentiles in large numbers are now partaking of the same blessings.

    The Gentiles had at one time been ‘aliens’ and ‘strangers’; now in Christ, they are no longer ‘aliens’ and ‘strangers.’ They have been bought nigh into ONE body! The Church! They have been brought from a lost and helpless condition to their glorious position in Christ. What have they been brought nigh unto? They are now part of the commonwealth of Israel, the covenant of promise:

    Wherefore remember that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world. Ephesians 2.11-12.

    The disciples are the foundation of the New Testament Church, and therefore all of Christ’s instructions to them in the Olivet discourse were to them, as members of His Body; the Church. But of course if Dispensational theologians accept this, which they cannot; for in doing so, it would then render the pre tribulation rapture doctrine totally untenable! The disciples would then have been puzzled as to why they were not made aware of the so-called ‘any moment’ pre tribulation coming, which according to the Dispensationalist theologians, was an exclusive revelation to Paul! So in order to try and validate Darby’s teaching, and remain faithful to the new theory, they have to discard such Scriptures as Matthew 16.18 and Matthew 18.17, and many others including the Olivet discourse etc, as being applicable to the Church.

    As regards the ‘new covenant’ prophesied by Jeremiah 31.31, which was given to the house of Israel and Judah, Harry Ironside suggested that the Church is not the recipient of the new covenant made with Israel, but that nonetheless she receives some of the blessings of this covenant. Does this not amount to double talk? This is just said in order to maintain the distinction between the Church and Israel. Indeed, how can the Church benefit from the new covenant, if she has no part in it? Surely we can see, that if we say that we are under the benefits of the Covenant, without being under the Covenant, is to clandestinely admit what is boldly denied?

    It matters not what men may say about Calvinism, Arminianism, Dispensationalism etc. What really matters is do these theological systems agree with what is plainly taught in the Word of God?

  • Redeemed

    Louise wrote:

    It has come to my attention that many well meaning Christians are forsaking the rapture and are turning against those of us who support it. The anger and jealousy they show towards those who support it has me reeling in shock and dismay. For those of you who know Alex Jones he has a new video out on the rapture. He is very much against it and through this video it is causing harm amongst the brethren. I took the liberty in listening to it for 15 minutes and found myself getting angrier and angrier. Yes, I opted out and did not finish listening to it. The 2 Baptist preacher who ranted over the fraud beliefs of the rapture allowed me to see that we will be hated for our beliefs, even from those who call themselves Christians. We who support and believe in the rapture are under persecution from our own and its going to get worse. So hang in there and put on the armour of GOD. Its going to be a rough ride in the next few years.

    I would expect this from Alex Jones – he is a phony and a shill. All Christians should steer clear of him.

    You are right, Louise, it is even so-called discernment sites that are now anti-rapture and anti-pretrib. They don’t just disagree, they are adamant and downright nasty.

    Then there are those who promote a “partial rapture”, meaning that whether or not you are taken will depend upon your behavior, whether you are godly enough or not.

    Then there are those who just simply don’t have an interest. I call them “panners”. They will just let it all “pan out”. Que sera, Que sera.

    It is a sad state of affairs, but it is just exactly what the Word said would be the conditions in the last days.

    We have to hold fast and not let ourselves get distracted and misled by those who are deceived.

    And stay away from Alex Jones and his ilk. There are wolves both in and out of the Church. It is a dangerous time, but remember our Redemption draws near!!! Maranatha! Even so come Lord Jesus!!!

  • Marat P

    Hello,

    I am new here. Could anyone explain what Isaiah 9:6 means by saying:
    And he will be called … Everlasting Father…

  • John Chingford

    Hi Marat P,

    Welcome!

    That passage is describing Jesus. Jesus carried within His body the whole fullness of God. He was God come in the flesh. Philip asked Jesus to show them the Father. Jesus replied by saying that He (in a sense) was the Father. Jesus said to the religious Jewish leaders “I and the Father are one”. Paul wrote in Colossians 2:9 about Jesus: “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”.

    Was Jesus the fullness of the Father? Of course not. Remember that there is JUST one God made up of 3 unique identities: the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. There is a Perfect unity and perfect equality and perfect completeness. The Son is the physical bodily manifestation of the all powerful, all knowing, all present everlasting God (Father) who fills the universe with his presence. Jesus is the manifestation of the Father willingly restricted to a human body for 33 (or so) years. He will forever be the physical manifestation of the everlasting, all poweful all present, invisible God.

    The Holy Spirit is the spiritual manifestation of the invisible God who convicts men and women of their sin pointing them to Jesus.

    So when you read Isaiah 9:6, this is what it means.

  • Marat P

    Hello John,

    Thank you for the explanation. I’ve been pondering about this place in the Bible, but I couldn’t find an explanation. To be honest, while I’ve accepted Christ 9 years ago, I have not necessarily greatly grown in knowledge of Scriptures. In fact, I might have regressed while attending Charismatic churches.

    Right now I am trying to find a good interpretation for how and when expect the end of the days, but obviously there is little consensus out there. For the past few years, I’ve had an ominous feeling about the future of this planet, and the more I live, the more I realize that the kingdom of heaven is at hand. I talked to fellow believers, but they seem more likely to believe Harold Camping or Mayans than me.

  • Keep Calm and Carry on

    What are your thoughts on Matt Chandler from the Village Church in Texas?

  • Wayne Jack

    Hi friends, history channel is doing a new bible series starting March 3rd. I have some concerns based on past performance with the history channel and who is producing the series. here is something (bottom > my comments) I posted in comments on FB to a Christian site praising the series, in addition the assistant pastor at church sent an email out all excited about the series. maybe I’m just over reacting. I have not sent my comments to the pastor, yet.

    Below is the the email I received from the pastor:
    HEADS UP. . . A WONDERFUL NEW TELEVISION MINI-SERIES BEGINNING MARCH 3 –

    Hello Everyone,
    Finally some decent television coming to a set near you. This mini-series does not begin until March 3rd but this will give all of us a chance to tell as many people as possible about this series. Let’s use this series to reach as many people as possible.

    The Bible is an epic five-week, 10 hour television mini-series premiering March 3, 2013 on the History Channel from Emmy Award winning husband and wife team, Mark Burnett and Roma Downey. For two hours each Sunday night millions of viewers will see the Bible come to life in a way never before seen. The final episode of the series will air on Easter Sunday and will feature the death and resurrection of Jesus. To help insure the accuracy of the miniseries, many Christian scholars served as advisors and hundreds of Christian leaders have given their endorsement. – (Outreach Magazine) “It is also a project close to Mr. Burnett’s heart. In the past couple of years the 52-year-old former paratrooper says he has become deeply religious, a transition he credits to Roma Downey, his wife since 2007. “It wasn’t until I met Roma that I truly understood my faith and it’s been a dynamic shift for me,” Mr. Burnett said. – Wall Street Journal “Famed television producer Mark Burnett tackles his projects with passion, but The Bible is a special labor of love. The 10-hour, five-part docudrama, which premieres March 3 on the History Channel, will span the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, presenting some of its best-known stories, including Noah’s Ark, the Exodus, Daniel in the lions’ den and the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus.

    Former Touched By an Angel star Roma Downey, Burnett’s wife and fellow executive producer, heads a large international cast in the role of Mother Mary. Keith David, an Emmy winner for voice-over performances, will narrate with a musical score by Oscar- and Grammy-winning composer Hans Zimmer. “In terms of importance, nothing we’ve ever done, not Touched By an Angel, not Survivor, not The Voice, not The Apprentice, none of this could possibly compare to The Bible,” Burnett says. “To us, as a family, we love the Bible.

    This is not a TV show to us. It’s images and sound and sacred text that people will still watch, way after our grandchildren are old people.” Since the entire Bible can’t be covered in 10 hours, the miniseries, which was filmed in Morocco, focuses on a select group of stories and features such compelling figures as Abraham, Moses and David. Some stories had to be compressed for artistic purposes. “In the end, what we’ve done is a meta-narrative, a grand narrative of emotionally connected stories. We know we’re not qualified to teach the Bible. We’re qualified to be good television producers and storytellers. By telling these emotionally connected, big stories, hopefully millions of people will reopen their Bibles,” Burnett says.

    Downey came up with the idea for the miniseries a few years ago. “It is our obligation to tell the stories as written,” he says. “The stories are so brilliant and compelling.” The project will have broad appeal, he says. “If you know the Bible, you’ll enjoy seeing the stories come to life. If you’ve never read the Bible, I think you’ll love the stories,” he says. “There’s a reason the Bible is the most widely read book in the world.” – USA Today

    my comments:
    Lets not jump into this head 1st it may be shallow water. If Mark Burnett and Roma were devout Christians who have given their life to Christ and repented of their sin, they would confess it. These two are “mega producers” and Satan controls the entertainment ind 100% in addition they are known to associate with ecumenicals, Calvinists who twist Scripture the Midrash Way which is New Apostolic Reformation. The Wall st. Journal (run by Illuminati) are praising Mark for his work here along with USA today and some others. that is a big red flag to me. Please use proper discernment and hopefully they don’t twist scripture to badly during this series as the History channel has done in the past. I could quote many things that both Mark and Roma have said that don’t support them as Christians but I think Christians should do their own homework. God Bless in the Mighty name of Jesus Christ.

    Please comment and thank you.

  • Robbie

    Keep calm

    I believe Matt is sharing his pulpit with Emergents. There is little difference between him and John Piper

    “Chander is a Reformergent Charismatic, he endorses Emergent New Ager, Leonard Sweet and Frank Viola’s book “The Jesus Manifesto”, he consistantly has shared the platform of the false teachers within the Emergent Church Movement , Saddleback “Conversations”, Acts 29 where he is a Board member (the denomination (yes it is) that has promoted planting a church in a gay bar), the inter-faith Elephant Room.”

    And there is more…

  • Redeemed

    Keep Calm and Carry on wrote:

    What are your thoughts on Matt Chandler from the Village Church in Texas?

    There is a movement afoot called “New Calvinism”. Traditional Calvinists/Reformed are not happy about this because it does not clearly identify the tenets of Calvinism/Reformed. In other words it is sneaky and one could say an emergent form of Calvinism.

    Be aware, the link provided leads to a Calvinist site no doubt about it. What sets it apart is that it is critical of their own which is quite unusual. I REPEAT the link given here is for “Information Purposes Only” and let the reader not be deceived that just because a Calvinist challenges another Calvinist that doctrinal truth is found there, because it is NOT.

    I would run as fast as I could from The Village Church and Matt Chandler and warn others. The statement of faith is fine window dressing and very cleverly stated the better to deceive.

    http://5ptsalt.com/2010/05/21/matt-chandler-new-calvinism-further-confusion/

  • Dan

    @ Marat P: “I will prove to you that I’m God by telling you what will happen BEFORE it happens. When it happens you will have to acknowledge that I’m God and that my word is true.” (Isaiah 46) Israel’s entire history as well as the political, economic and religious future of the world, united under one government – are foretold thousands of years ago. Bible prophecy forms the foundation of why Christians believe in God. Faith in God is built on the proof that the Bible is true, therefore God is real. God says to Israel and the Jews: “You are my witnesses to yourselves and to the world – that I am God” (Isaiah 43: 1+10) In fact nowhere in the bible does it say: “You should take it by faith”. Prophecy makes up about 30% of the Bible. Israel is God’s clock to the nations. One prophecy follows the other into fulfillment. If one of them is wrong, all of them are wrong.
    About 2500 years ago, Daniel received a prophecy about 4 kingdoms that would come. All four of them are history today. They were: The Babylonian; The Medo – Persian; The Greek Empire; The Roman Empire. The last one is of relevance to us today. 700 Years after Daniel, in 95 AD Apostle John got 3 more prophecies regarding the last kingdom (Roman). These are described in Revelation 12; 13 and 17. At that time, the previous 3 empires have come and gone just like Daniel had said they would. The Roman Empire was then at its peak. It too would fall but unlike the other three, it wouldn’t be conquered and replaced by another. Instead it would be revived many years later, just before the return of Jesus Christ. The Bible paints a clear picture of major events that will happen before Jesus returns. Some of the detail may be difficult to understand but the major events about the world’s religious, economic and political future are clearly spelled out in Revelation 13, 17 and 18.
    On October 27, 1986 – Leaders from all different faiths and denominations, from across the world, came together in Rome for the first Day of Prayer. A 160 leaders were present and every religion was represented except one, Evangelical Christianity. The pope called them “a sect”. Evangelical Christians believe that Jesus is “the” way to God instead of “a” way to God. “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me”. (Joh 14:6) The concept of “a” way to God, is paving the way for a Universal Creator / god to be accepted by the masses. Beware, be not be deceived into believing: “We all believe in the same god anyways. Let’s join hands for world peace”. According to Bible prophecy, a world religious figure will arise to prominence and do just that. He unites all the world’s religions into one universal religion. Creating a one world religion. He’s a miracle worker (Rev 13:11; 5:6) He is the False Prophet (Rev 19:20) and the Jews mistakenly accept him as their Messiah.
    A second figure comes on the scene. Where the first world leader is religious and unites all people under a one world religion, the second man is political and unites all the world’s people under a one world government. Not only does he unite the world under one political system, but he creates a single world financial system, that abolishes all private or individual business transactions that are not part of the global system. (Revelation 13:17) This leader is described in (Revelation 13:11).The idea of a one world government sounds like a solution to many problems. But the Bible tells us that it is not because the leader of this one world government gets his authority directly from Lucifer. (Rev 13:2) (Rev 12:9) The coming One World Government is a Luciferian Kingdom.
    Read the “Vatican Fulfills Biblical Prophecy” article elsewhere on this blog.

  • Dan

    Can anyone please shine some light on the resignation of the pope? Does the bible tell us anything about it? Thank you.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    Nope the bible tells us nothing about the Pope in particular, but the bible does reference the Roman Catholic Church as the “woman who rides the beast” in the book of Revelation. There is a lot of info out there about the next Pope supposedly being the next anti-Christ however when you examine the writers they are 7th Day Adventists and people who believe in amillennialism. As Christians our focus needs to be on Jesus only and not worry about these thing. I sometimes find myself wondering who the anti-Christ could be (especially) in situations like this, and then all of a sudden Biblical prophecy does not make sense because of people making up stories to fit Biblical prophecy. So I am then reminded by the Holy Spirit to stop WORRYING and focus my attention back to Jesus instead where there is peace of mind. We can’t change what is going to happen and thinking about it and trying to solve a puzzle that is probably unsolvable only caused us to stress out – Jesus want’s us to look to Him all the time and not focus our attention on the world. Now having said that, yes, the bible says we are to Watch and pray, by WATCHING what is going on (BUT) not getting ourselves caught up in the nitty gritties of trying to figure out who the anti-Christ will be, we will know that the time for Jesus RETURN is soon, very very soon :)

  • Dan

    I heard someone say something about this pope being the last pope or the next pope being the last pope and that IT IS BIBLE Prophecy. That’s why I asked. Thanks for clearing it up. Are you ok? The site was down for a day or two, I couldn’t get in, and then when I did get in, I couldn’t browse the site. Praying for you and for what you’re doing here. You’re a blessing to many;-)

  • Osito

    Hi everyone,

    I watch TBN last night and the pastor prayed for this women to get pregnand, but she was at home, so she and her husband had to put there HANDS on the TV SCREEN while the pastor was praying for them. She felt the power throught the tv screen.

    I just dont understand these people, POWER brought to you by DSTV.

    Well she got pregnand, lucky for them they had a tv and the DSTV rececption was good.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Osito

    Yes demonic spirits will travel if you accept them and their false teaching, but not actually through the tv (although they will make it appear that way, that power was transferred through the tv), but instantly through another dimension to get to you. They are in our atmosphere, millions of them, just waiting to pounce.

  • Dan

    242 >> Can a christian be friends with atheists?

    Yes most definitely if its not going to affect your faith i.e., it’s not going to cause you to stumble. You will find out soon enough if your friendship with this guy is worth it or not… If you find that his darkness is encroaching on your light, you will have to walk away. That statement of ‘if Jesus so really full of love….why can’t yoube friends with him’ sounds like Satan talking to me. Why is this guy even bothered with Jesus’ love if he is an atheist. If he seems REALLY bothered then test him out, see where this goes, but I have a feeling it’s not going to go where you want it to and you are going to come off second best. Just letting you know… BUT then maybe a miracle happens and he listens to what you have to say to him!”

    For a moment it looked like he was listening to me. But yes, I had to make a compromise. According to him I could talk about God but I had to realise that I was the only one that changed, no one else shares the same interest. Therefore I couldn’t talk about God whenever I wanted to, I had to know my place and time. At first I agreed to this because it sounded like good advice but it has affected my zeal to witness and I feel powerless as a result. I have ended this friendship yesterday and the backlash is just …wow!!! His response was: Him and his wife are now going to use this event as an example of why he doesn’t believe in God and he’s going to warn everyone I know to stay away from me and any other Christians. His wife is a Christian too. I just hope I haven’t damaged the image of Christianity and Christ and thereby any chance that he might have had in turning to God. His wife asks me where’s the love of Jesus? Which God am I praying to? Who gives me the right to judge etc. I really don’t know what to think. Did I make a mistake?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    What you did was the right thing. You see if you continued to hang around with this guy on HIS TERMS, you would slowly but surely find yourself converting back to your old ways or his ways. This is EXACTLY what Satan WANTS. Emergent dialogue does NOT WORK, especially if you are a born again Christian – you will come off second best.

    >> His wife is a Christian too.

    If she agrees with the way he is treating you, then she is not.

    >> I just hope I haven’t damaged the image of Christianity and Christ and thereby any chance that he might have had in turning to God.

    No, no and one more time NO :) Never! No person can do damage to Christianity and Christ and prevent others from turning to God. This is another lie that Satan is telling you to make you feel guilty for something you HAVE NOT DONE WRONG.

    It’s the Holy Spirit who calls people, and if people are willing to listen to Him, there is nothing you can do to interfere with that. Yes, negative things happen through-out our lives, but if an individual genuinely has a love for Jesus Christ they WILL accept Jesus sooner or later no matter WHAT NASTY news they heard down the road. Everyone has a BRAIN to REASON with, not everyone is stupid and will just slurp up ridiculous stories like you friend and his so called Christian wife are going to blurt out.

    His wife asks you, where is the love of Jesus (well first she follows a false Christ)

    You tell her that to compromise the Gospel is to make concessions or accommodations for someone who does not agree with a prevalent set of standards or rules. The Bible makes it clear that God does not condone compromising His standards:

    Psalm 119:1-4; “Joyful are people of integrity, who follow the instructions of the LORD. Joyful are those who obey His laws and search for Him with all their hearts. They do not compromise with evil, and they walk only in His paths. You have charged us to keep Your commandments carefully”

    As believers, we must “see to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ”

    We are also commanded to be “prepared to make a defence to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you …” (1 Peter 3:15). In other words, we are commanded not only to remain faithful to the Word but to defend it and correct those who are in opposition to it(2 Timothy 2:24-25).

    But you are being told to keep quiet, you are not allowed to speak the Gospel. You have to make concessions and I bet that he is allowed to speak his anti-Christ nonsense when-ever he wants, and you must just listen to it and agree?

    Its for this reason that the Bible says…

    Psalms 12:26 “The righteous should choose his friends carefully, for the way of the wicked leads them astray”

    1 Corinthians 15:33 – “33 Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”

    Now is your time to witness, you tell her that you pray to Jesus Christ the Only Begotten Son of God, born of a virgin, crucified, buried and physically resurrected 3 days later, He a ascended bodily into heaven. You tell her this is the Jesus Christ you pray too, who you repent of all your sin too, who you have a relationship with, and you tell her that when you got saved the Holy Spirit came immediately to made a home in you, and you became a new creature in Jesus Christ. You tell her that you have this unquenchable desire to speak to Gospel Truth to people, but you have been told to keep quiet) and this is something that Bible tells you you can NOT DO.

    And who are you judging? My word they are judging YOU for being a born again Christian and SILENCING you. They mock your Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by silencing you. And she calls herself a Christian? She should be ashamed.

    After you say that, you walk away.

  • Dan

    Thanks Deborah. It is SO nice to know I will always find support here;-)

  • Carolyn

    Hi Everyone…

    Miracles happen in their own good time….here’s a little story of what happened today at my grandson’s preschool and my daughter was there to witness it. I hope you don’t mind my sharing this on here, but we’re family…and I thought it might be time for a light hearted comment.

    Today my 2 year old grandson, Luke went to pre-school. At the end of the day, they were all given a little round sticker by the teacher. But, sadly, there were 7 children and she had only 6 stickers. The last little boy was stricken. He did not have a sticker. Oh, what would she do? The teacher searched through her bag and found a one-of-a-kind duck sticker which she triumphantly handed to the little boy. However, in solving one problem, she had now created another problem. A very young child, about 18 months old, became distraught out of proportion because he did not have a duck sticker. He wanted a duck sticker very badly and began howling. The teacher was undone. She was apologizing profusely…but wait, there’s more. The Luke-ster (as I call him), came up with the biggest surprise of all. He decided much too late that he did not even want his sticker. He walked up to the teacher and said abruptly. “Don’t want. Take it off!”, as he held out his hand and demanded that the teacher remove it.

    Moral of the story…wait for the miracle…don’t run ahead and produce your own…

  • Redeemed

    Carolyn, you have a way with words!

    What a cute story and what a clever and apt application!

    Thanks for giving us all a chuckle today.

  • Smiley

    Can you people share with me where you got saved?
    Gave your heart to Jesus?

  • Smiley

    Dan wrote:

    Can anyone please shine some light on the resignation of the pope? Does the bible tell us anything about it? Thank you.

    Seems these Catholics are all into idol worship, and the pope is one of them.

    The through about the Roman Catholic Church:
    satan tried hard to destroy the early Church, but the more satan killed disciples the more the church multiplied. That’s when satan decided to destroy the church from within and now we have the Roman Catholic Church which have multiple pagan idol worshiping hidden in there church like: the pope, like the Christmas tree and Santa Claus, rosemary beads, worshiping Mary and the saints, and many other things,…..

    Keep your focus on Jesus!!

    Be blessed

  • Smiley

    Robbie wrote:

    Hey Dan.
    I know exactly how you feel/think. I found when one leaves a “dead” church one seems to grow faster spiritually. Most claim to be raising the dead while they can’t even stir the living?
    I am not saying all churches are dead. What I do know is that God does not reside in man-made buildings.
    The yes… I heard nasty things about the last days spirits of religion.

    Yes, the spirit of religion.

    Any church that does not allow the Holy Spirit to move in a Church and Let people hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ and give then an opportunity to give there heart to Jesus.

    they are under the spirit of religion, doing what man wants and not what the bible says about the church, the bride of Christ

  • Estelle

    Smiley wrote:

    Any church that does not allow the Holy Spirit to move in a Church and Let people hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ and give then an opportunity to give there heart to Jesus.

    Okay, does the church allow the Holy Spirit to move? So if the church doesn’t allow it, then the Holy Spirit can’t move?

    That doesn’t even make sense? How can people or a church ‘allow’ God to move. God and the Holy Spirit doesn’t need anyone’s permission. God is Almighty, He can do whatever He wants, whenever He wants to.

  • Redeemed

    Smiley, the Holy Spirit does not force Himself upon anyone and can be quenched (suppressed)and grieved. He draws and convicts, but it is our choice whether to respond or not.

    Refer to I Thessalonians 5:19 which instructs us not to quench the Holy Spirit.
    Ephesians 4:30 warns us not to grieve the Holy Spirit.

  • Smiley

    You are correct Redeemed.
    I agree, It is our choice to respond to the Holy Spirit

  • Smiley

    Estelle wrote:

    Smiley wrote:

    Any church that does not allow the Holy Spirit to move in a Church and Let people hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ and give then an opportunity to give there heart to Jesus.

    Okay, does the church allow the Holy Spirit to move? So if the church doesn’t allow it, then the Holy Spirit can’t move?
    That doesn’t even make sense? How can people or a church ‘allow’ God to move. God and the Holy Spirit doesn’t need anyone’s permission. God is Almighty, He can do whatever He wants, whenever He wants to.

    If an alter call is not made, with other words, if the people in the church do not get a change to give their hearts to Jesus, then how can the Holy Spirit convict or work on your heart so you can give up, the Holy Spirit will ask us to do things but if we do not do it then what then?? We still have to spread the Gospel of Jesus. Yes God is in charge, but He works through us. Jesus last words to us is to spread the Gospel to all peoples. The Holy Spirit is our Helper. And if we are not Spirit led by led by what me think we must do then the Holy Spirit cannot operate. You quench the Spirit
    I Thessalonians 5:19

  • Redeemed

    Yes Smiley, it is our responsiblity to present the Gospel whether one-to-one or in the church and leave the results to God.

    The Bible says that the majority will not truly believe the uncompromised Gospel because it is contrary to man’s flesh.

    The problem is that people are not taught to share the Gospel and most pastors don’t preach the Gospel anymore because it offends.

    The Gospel calls for a response. The Holy Spirit draws and convicts, but a decision of acceptance is required on the part of the individual.

  • Dan

    I have been watching events in Syria and Israel very closely now for the past couple of months. I was convinced that what we’re witnessing is the buildup to the war of Ezekiel 38+39. However, according to Dave Hunt earlier this week, “the war of Ezekiel 38+39 is the Armageddon war.” I was convinced that a Peacemaker will arise from this war and unite all the world’s religions into one universal religion. Creating a one world religion. He’s a miracle worker (Rev 13:11; 5:6) He is the False Prophet (Rev 19:20) and the Jews mistakenly accept him as their Messiah. However, Dave Hunt makes a strong case here: http://www.thebereancall.org/content/will-there-really-be-armageddon
    Everything is in place for the False Prophet to arise now. But what would he actually have to do to convince the Jews that he is “their Messiah”?
    I thought this was also interesting, I don’t know if anyone else read this: http://www.israelandstuff.com/israel-reach-historic-agreement-with-vatican-seating-them-at-last-supper-site (I do not know this site, this was my first visit there)

  • Dan

    I love music but it’s SO hard to find good Christian music out there. I gave up and just when I stopped looking, I found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3auezDdZjw Blessings!

  • Rob Diamond

    Did you all hear that Dave Hunt died? He passed away on April 5.

  • This very unique article exposing Joel Rosenberg needs to be seen (I believe anyway) -

    http://ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2013/04/could-joel-rosenberg-be-first-created.html

  • Dan

    Just wanted to share a site that has been of tremendous help and a blessing in my Bible studies. Although the work of Darby is not easy to work through, the “Synopsis of the books of the Bible” – by J.N Darby is an absolute blessing. http://www.stempublishing.com/

    Blessings in Christ

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    Ah there you are :)

    I’ve never read any of Darby’s work.

  • Sharon

    The name of Jehovah God is what He told Moses…He is the GREAT I AM. God is not the “I Was”, He is not the “I will be.” He is the GREAT I AM. Get your self a King James Bible and read it. I promise you will find the One True God who has many names but all of them are contained in the name I AM. Peace, Gods peace to you.

    harry wrote:

    The concept of God must be defined. Many talks about god but they talk of a very different god. Therefore it is important that we know Him by name. The name of God Most High the one and only.
    Associating God with the Olumpics is bad news.
    The olympics is dedicated to Zeus and he is not Almighty God.
    What is the real name of the Living Almighty Most High God?

  • Zoe

    Greetings!

    Would like to get your opinion on Rev 21 V 1, I’m reading a NKJV, somone who God ‘speaks to regulary’ explained that the demons that were casted down to earth were, for the major part given residence in the sea, hence no more sea.

    Looking forward to your responce.

  • Sharon

    Hmmmm Deborah, I will have to disagree with you on this; Baptists and Calvinists are not the same thing. Now I will say there are some Baptists both Independent and Southern Baptists that are Calvinistic in their “theology.” But this old gal is about as far as one can get against the heresy of Calvinism. I would venture to say that not all Presbyterians are Calvinistic. My very best friend of 53 years turned Calvinistic back in 2004. She is truly one of the most Godley women I know… … but she has gotten herself caught up by this “every wind of doctrine” which is no doctrine at all.

    I am not a Calvinist and yet I believe God is Sovereign. I am not an Arminian because I believe in once saved, always saved. I am a blood-bought Daughter of the Most High God. I am a Baptist by conviction and yet I realize that not all Baptists will be in heaven. I am in love with my Savior, the One and Only Jesus Christ.

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Baptists/Calvinists – samething…

  • Sharon

    The word Church means: A called out assembly. As far as being unable to find a church, you will never find one that is perfect. But you will find a “remnant” of true believers. Don’t go into any church looking for what is wrong; look for what is right. None of us are perfect; so if you want a church that is perfect it would stop being so when I walked in. Peace to you and let the Holy Spirit guide you to a place of worship.

    Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

    Hanelie wrote:

    Redeemed wrote:

    Many believers are lonely and desire to be in a church but can’t find one that teaches the uncompromised Word of God and hasn’t gone Purpose Driven or emergent or dominionist, etc.

    Oh, this really resonates with me. We left the “church” we were in a while ago and have been waiting for the Lord to guide us to a church since, but for now He keeps saying “Come to Me. Learn from Me.” I have realized that I really need Him to rework my entire faith vocabulary, that even words such as “faith” and “love” need to be redefined by Him as He meant it, and not as I had learned it.

    I also came across an interesting in the Afrikaans translation of the Bible. The word “kerk” (church) never appears in the 1953 translation. In each case “ekklesia” has been translated to “gemeente” (assembly).

  • Sharon

    The location of Hell is in the center of the earth. The very core of the Earth is over 6,000 degrees! That is hot. Deut.32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. (the lowest hell)

    Psa_86:13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell. (again lowest hell.) Isa_5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
    Isa_14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
    Isa_14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Mat_11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell:
    Num_16:33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
    Pro_1:12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:

    Jesus spoke more about hell than heaven. I suppose because more will end up in hell than in heaven. I long for the day when Jesus will throw satan into the deepest, hottest place in hell. But that day isn’t today. I hate satan. But I love and praise my Jesus.

    Burning Lamp wrote:

    The location of hell question is a bunny trail and a diversion. What is really important is to share the Gospel so people won’t go there whereever it is!

    As I understand it, there is a temporary holding place called Hades and at White Throne Judgement the unsaved will be thrown into the lake of fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels. Hades is a place of torment, but nothing compared to the hell of the future.

  • Sharon

    What I Believe…
    (smg 10-01-2009)
    I believe in the verbal, plenary inspiration of the Word of God (II Timothy 3:16-17), and its preservation in the King James Bible.
    I believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ (Matthew 1:23), and in His deity (I John 5: 6, 7)

    I believe in the Trinity of God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit. These three are one.

    I believe the Blood Atonement of Jesus Christ is necessary for the forgiveness of sin (Ephesians 1:7). The Blood Atonement of Jesus Christ was Sufficient for ALL and is Efficient to Those Who Believe in Jesus Christ by Faith. (1Timothy 4:10)

    I believe that Salvation is “repentance toward God and Faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ” (Acts 20:21). I believe that Salvation is “by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ plus nothing minus nothing. (Ephesians 2: 8-9).

    I believe that the entire Redeemed, once saved are kept by God’s power and are thus secure in Jesus Christ Forever. I believe that eternal life is the present possession of every believer (John 6:37-40, 10:27-30; Romans 8:1, 38-39; I Corinthians 1:4-8; I Peter 1:4-5; Jude 1, 2).

    I believe in the Local New Testament Baptist Church and its Independence under the Headship of Jesus Christ. (Colossians 1:18)

    I believe the “Blessed Hope” of our Lord’s return is Literal, Personal, Visible, Imminent, Premillennial, and Pretribulational (I Thessalonians 4: 13-17; Titus 2:13).

    I believe in the bodily resurrection of all mankind; the saved to eternal life in Heaven, and the unsaved to judgment and everlasting punishment in Hell. (Matthew 25:46; John 5:28, 29, 11:25-26; Revelation 20:5-6, 12-13).

    I am not a Calvinist, nor am I an Arminian. I am a Born Again Christian first & foremost. Then I am a Baptist by conviction. I am a follower of Jesus Christ my Savior and Lord.

    Louise wrote:

    Hi there

    It would be nice if you guys had a section giving us a little bit of information on yourselves and your statement of faith. It’s important to know exactly what people believe upfront before reading their views.

  • Sharon

    I have always thought that volcanos erupting was hell burping so as to take more people into it. People laugh when they hear me say that, but I just tell them to stop and think about it. JMO

    Paul (Continue in His Word) wrote:

    Sequel of my above comment about Volcanoes and Hell :

    I want to say that this preacher is a beloved brother. Yet this does not mean that he cannot be in error, in which case we need to approach him with love and point his error (if it is the case) so that he will correct it and not spread it. Until a person is found to be a wolf in sheep’s clothing (ie a false brother), I believe we should not expose his errors and name him in public without having contacted him and given him the opportunity to explain and/or correct himself.

    Here are the 8 KJV references this preacher used to prove his doctrine of Hell being in the core of planet earth:

    #1 Isaiah 14:9-15
    (9) Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
    (10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
    (11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
    (12) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    (13) For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    (14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
    (15) Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

    #2 Pro 15:24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

    #3 Deu 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
    (Note: “Set on fire the foundations of the mountains” is interpreted as volcanic eruptions)

    #4 Isaiah 5:14-15
    (14) Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
    (15) And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:

    (Note: Hell is ever enlarging itself to contain the multitudes who die without Christ)

    #5 Ezekiel 31:14-18
    (14) To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.
    (15) Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him.
    (16) I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
    (17) They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
    (18) To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord GOD.

    (Note: “the nether parts of the earth” means “the heart of the womb of the earth”)

    #6 Numbers 16:30-35
    (30) But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.
    (31) And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them:
    (32) And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.
    (33) They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
    (34) And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also.
    (35) And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense.

    #7 Luke 16:19-26
    (19) There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
    (20) And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
    (21) And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
    (22) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
    (23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
    (24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
    (25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
    (26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

    #8 Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

  • Sharon

    Deborah, if I may I would like to ask you a couple of questions. 1. Do you believe or not believe in what is called the Rapture of the true church of Jesus Christ? The word “Rapture” is not found in the Bible. But the truth of this “catching away” is in there. Some where else in this wonderful web site I gave the scriptures that pertain to such. 2.Do you believe that the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ is a different event than the rapture?

    I do enjoy coming to this site. But sometimes I find that some wish to “beat a dead horse.” This is YOUR blog. It belongs to know one but you. You have great insight into the Word of God. I cannot speak eloquently as you. I just kinda “blurt out” what I believe scripture says on most any given topic.I get way toooooo opinionated.

    No one should be attacking you, even if they totally disagree with you. One thing we Christians should have is respect for other Christians. What’s the saying, lets disagree without being disagreeable. This is what I do with my best friend of 53 years. She is a saved Calvinist and she knows the depth of my dislike for Calvinism. Whether we like it or not even a Calvinist has the right to be wrong. :o)

  • Sharon

    If I remember correctly when my mommy explained the “birds & the bees” to me over 50 years ago, it wasn’t television that made momma pregnant. Perhaps they turned off the TV early!:o) TBN is an abomination. Paul is a homosexual and Paul Junior is not Paul’s. As for Jan the purple haired woman that thinks she’s a Barbie Doll well I don’t know what to think of her other then she is crazy. Paul and Jan do not live together. They have separate homes. JMO

    Osito

    wrote:

    Hi everyone,

    I watch TBN last night and the pastor prayed for this women to get pregnand, but she was at home, so she and her husband had to put there HANDS on the TV SCREEN while the pastor was praying for them. She felt the power throught the tv screen.

    I just dont understand these people, POWER brought to you by DSTV.

    Well she got pregnand, lucky for them they had a tv and the DSTV rececption was good.

  • Sharon

    Franklin and Billy are both 33rd Degree Freemasons. That will tell you what god they serve,

    Paul (Continue in His Word) wrote:

    Franklin Graham is bringing the carnal monstruosity called “Rock the River” to Ottawa on Sept 29-30.
    A well meaning “christian” colleague of mine told about it and invited me. (I used to fellowship with this friend and with the ecumenical crowd at my workplace, but since last year I have SEPARATED from them)

    “Rock the river” is a two-days mega rock concert fit for this evil age.
    The news of the event can be found here:

    Back in 2009, a pastor wrote the following article about it : “Franklin Graham: Minister of Christ or Priest of Baal?”
    http://www.pccmonroe.org/neo-evangelicalism/2009.08.14.htm

    I AM SICK AND HURTING INSIDE FOR MY FRIEND AND FRIENDS AND ALL THOSE IS THIS CITY WHO ARE GOING TO BE PUSHED DEEPER AND DEEPER INTO DECEPTION.
    If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?
    Oh God open the eyes of those who truly belong to you, that they may see. And for those that are lost, please save some. Lord help me and enable me to warn and help those that I can.

    I would like to gather some true believers in the city, to go tot the sidelines and preach the gospel of Christ and bear biblical witness against this satanic event.

  • Sharon

    Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    This Old Testament verse means two things. First it is the prophecy concerning the Messiah, Jesus Christ being born. Then the Everlasting Father speaks of God the Father. Remember Jesus is God. The Trinity is God the Father, God the Son, & God the Holy Spirit

    1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

    Marat P wrote:

    Hello,

    I am new here. Could anyone explain what Isaiah 9:6 means by saying:
    And he will be called … Everlasting Father…

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Zoe

    No, I don’t think so, that is reading into something that is not there. The bible says that demons are in second heaven (space) with access to the first heaven (our atmosphere) and some angels are in prison as seen in 2 Peter 2:4. The Greek word translated “hell” which is Tartarus.

    “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea” (1). This verse reminds us of Isaiah’s prophecy, “For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind” (Isaiah 65:17); and “For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the lord, so shall your seed and your name remain” (Isaiah 66:22). The apostle Peter referred to this as well. After describing the destruction by fire of the heavens and the earth that now are, he said, “Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness” (2 Peter 3:13).

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Sharon

    >> Hmmmm Deborah, I will have to disagree with you on this; Baptists and Calvinists are not the same thing.

    Yes, I have come to figure this out over time. :)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Sharon

    I know the word Rapture is not in the bible. I have a zillion articles on the ‘catching away’ and our Lord Jesus’s Blesses Hope. I am constantly defending this and I am finding that more and more people are turning their eyes away from Jesus and to the world. They don’t believe He is coming back for His bride. I believe with all my heart that He is coming to take us home and very very soon. http://www.discerningtheworld.com/category/all-keywords/r-all-keywords/rapture-caught-up-the-first-resurrection/

  • Sharon

    Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

    It is odd how many Christians think that satan and the fallen angels are in hell. Not yet. They will be someday; but that day is not right now. satan is not omnipresent nor is he omnipotent. He can only be in one place at a time. But, he knows he will never be worshipped as God Almighty. There are some denominations that want to blamed satan for every thing that goes wrong. They have given him too much power over their lives. Yes, satan is a powerful being. But Praise God he is a defeated foe!

    I remember a pastors wife telling me that when people go looking under ever tree and bush for a demon they better be careful.

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Zoe

    No, I don’t think so, that is reading into something that is not there. The bible says that demons are in second heaven (space) with access to the first heaven (our atmosphere) and some angels are in prison as seen in 2 Peter 2:4. The Greek word translated “hell” which is Tartarus.

    “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea” (1). This verse reminds us of Isaiah’s prophecy, “For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind” (Isaiah 65:17); and “For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the lord, so shall your seed and your name remain” (Isaiah 66:22). The apostle Peter referred to this as well. After describing the destruction by fire of the heavens and the earth that now are, he said, “Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness” (2 Peter 3:13).

  • Sharon

    Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

    2Peter_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
    2Peter_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

    Zoe, it means exactly what it says. This old Earth is still under the sin curse and therefore won’t be fit to live on during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ. The heavens are also polluted. Not the heaven where God dwells, but the remaining two heavens (the planets and the other is where the birds fly. satan is the god of this world according to:
    2Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    Then there is this verse: Eph_2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

    satan is not in hell, not yet. He cannot be in different places at a time like God can. He is not all powerful, but he does have some authority here on earth.

    Once satan is cast into the deepest, hottest part of hell God will make a new heaven and a new earth where satan cannot taint it any more. We will have the ability to go from the New Jerusalem and the Earth during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ and probably forever will be able to do so.

    I do not write eloquently, but I hope maybe I helped you.

    Zoe wrote:

    Greetings!

    Would like to get your opinion on Rev 21 V 1, I’m reading a NKJV, somone who God ‘speaks to regulary’ explained that the demons that were casted down to earth were, for the major part given residence in the sea, hence no more sea.

    Looking forward to your responce.

  • Sharon

    The “Middle East” is the Christians time clock. God made a name for Himself in Jerusalem and He will ultimately protect and defend her. Keep watching Israel.

    Dan wrote:

    I have been watching events in Syria and Israel very closely now for the past couple of months. I was convinced that what we’re witnessing is the buildup to the war of Ezekiel 38+39. However, according to Dave Hunt earlier this week, “the war of Ezekiel 38+39 is the Armageddon war.” I was convinced that a Peacemaker will arise from this war and unite all the world’s religions into one universal religion. Creating a one world religion. He’s a miracle worker (Rev 13:11; 5:6) He is the False Prophet (Rev 19:20) and the Jews mistakenly accept him as their Messiah. However, Dave Hunt makes a strong case here: http://www.thebereancall.org/content/will-there-really-be-armageddon
    Everything is in place for the False Prophet to arise now. But what would he actually have to do to convince the Jews that he is “their Messiah”?
    I thought this was also interesting, I don’t know if anyone else read this: http://www.israelandstuff.com/israel-reach-historic-agreement-with-vatican-seating-them-at-last-supper-site (I do not know this site, this was my first visit there)

  • Sharon

    It was the “religious” people who did not believe in Jesus that had Him crucified. They wanted a Messiah who would rise up and end Roman oppression. They did not want the bloody Lamb of God. But we also must remember that no one took the life of Jesus Christ. Jesus freely laid down his life to atone for the sins of mankind. Read this: John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

    It was my sin and your sin and the sins of the WHOLE WORLD that he atoned for. For 2,000 years people that call them selves Christians have blamed the Jews for crucifying Jesus. Others want to blame the Romans.

    It doesn’t matter who literally place Him on the cross. What matters is that He did die on a very cruel cross. He died, was buried and Praise God He arose from the grave!

    As far as where to go to church I find that we will only get out of church what we put into it. Do we go expecting to hear from the Lord? Have we prayed for our Pastor that he will say what we NEED to hear rather than what we want to hear? Do we study the Bible to show our selves approved unto God? 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
    Or…do we have a fight with our spouse while on the way to church? Or…are we “late as usual” for the service? Or…do we enter into worship mad at God because He didn’t answer a prayer in the positive for us?

    Just like in Israel, God always had a remnant of true believers; so it goes with His church. I find that a lot of people get to church, plop themselves into a pew and sit there with the attitude…Entertain me God.

    We get out of a service what we put into it. JMO

    Dan wrote:

    I know a lot of people who used to go to church but couldn’t find God there. Too many false teachings, dead religious customs etc. We all know the drill. Some of these people have turned to Darwinism for answers, others just gave up searching all together. I don’t know if this is way off or not. Please help me if I am. Jesus was not crucified by unbelievers, He was crucified by the church leaders (Matt 20:18) In an effort to witness to these people, is it unbiblical to say that God exists outside of organised religion? “Organized religion” in the sense of dead, man – made systems.

  • Sharon

    I found another verse for you: Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    I believe there are certain angels that are just as the verse above says.

    Then there is this verse: Revelation 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

    Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

    I guess God has these angels reserved for the Day of Judgment. 1/3 of the Angels in Heaven followed Lucifer/Satan. Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, There are so many Angels that Gods word says they cannot be counted!

    Angels never appeared to be female. While they are sexless they always appeared as men, dressed in the clothing of the day. Yet when Abraham and Lot met these angels they knew immediately.

    Angels are not necked little cherub babies. Michael is an arch-angel of the warrior type. Gabriel is the angel to make announcements like to Mary that she would give birth to the promised Savior, the only begotten Son of the Most High God!

    Be at peace…His peace. Keep studying Gods word. Before you prepare to study, pray and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you. Jesus said that He, the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth.

    Zoe wrote:

    Greetings!

    Would like to get your opinion on Rev 21 V 1, I’m reading a NKJV, somone who God ‘speaks to regulary’ explained that the demons that were casted down to earth were, for the major part given residence in the sea, hence no more sea.

    Looking forward to your responce.

  • Sharon

    I see your name is Michael. That is the name of the man I was married to for 28 years and then HE decided to divorce me without scriptural grounds. Yes, there are scriptural grounds for a divorce. But any way…here in America the divorce rate among Christians is higher than that of non-Christians. That just ought not to be.

    Michael are you divorced? Do you know what it feels like to give yourself, your whole adult life to someone and you meant until death us do part? I do know what it feels like and frankly I would rather he died than to divorce me. The rejection factor has been for me simply awful. The divorce rocked my faith. It made me search, painfully search for who I now was and did I believe what I always said I believed.

    I am both a granddaughter and sister of Baptist preachers. My father was a Deacon for 60+ years. My mother was a wonderful Deacons wife who met all of the qualifications.
    If my grandfather were alive today he would be totally shocked at the progression of sin in this world.

    No matter how one tries you cannot save a marriage by yourself. No one knows to this day exactly why my “ex” divorced me. My son, nor my daughter knows the answer. I mean there is no such thing as a perfect spouse, but I kept my vows. He did not keep his.

    Yes, God hates divorce. Yes, I hate it too. But when someone has made up their mind to get a divorce nothing but their death will keep them from it. It is caused by the hardness of the heart just as Moses said. Jesus spoke about divorce a little. He has a much better attitude towards divorced people like me than some Christians do.

    NEVER judge a person because they’re divorced. No one knows what it’s like until one goes through it. It’s been 13 years since my divorce and I still have a tough day or two like our anniversary date or the divorce was final. It is a pain that only Jesus can heal.

    They say silver duct tape will fix anything. I say it will fix any thing but a broken heart. That job belongs to Jesus. Peace to you.

    michael wrote:

    Topics are often been innundated with irrevelavent data…or so it seems but most of my comments have been aimed at the main core of all spiritual problems. One of them of them has been sadly neglected but it is indeed one of the most important and that is the question of divorce. Such an important subject that the church has got it it all wrong despite the fact that the Saviour Himself gave very clear instructions and so did Apostle Paul. This is a subject that is paramount to all believers and sadly been neglected with the result of far reaching spiritual problems. A topic that should in this context be addressed very sternly and aggresively.

  • Sharon

    There are photos of him on the web that show him giving the devil horn salute. He is a Catholic and just keeps bringing up stupid stuff supposedly so we won’t see what the “Illumined Ones” are up to.

    Redeemed wrote:

    Louise wrote:

    It has come to my attention that many well meaning Christians are forsaking the rapture and are turning against those of us who support it. The anger and jealousy they show towards those who support it has me reeling in shock and dismay. For those of you who know Alex Jones he has a new video out on the rapture. He is very much against it and through this video it is causing harm amongst the brethren. I took the liberty in listening to it for 15 minutes and found myself getting angrier and angrier. Yes, I opted out and did not finish listening to it. The 2 Baptist preacher who ranted over the fraud beliefs of the rapture allowed me to see that we will be hated for our beliefs, even from those who call themselves Christians. We who support and believe in the rapture are under persecution from our own and its going to get worse. So hang in there and put on the armour of GOD. Its going to be a rough ride in the next few years.

    I would expect this from Alex Jones – he is a phony and a shill. All Christians should steer clear of him.

    You are right, Louise, it is even so-called discernment sites that are now anti-rapture and anti-pretrib. They don’t just disagree, they are adamant and downright nasty.

    Then there are those who promote a “partial rapture”, meaning that whether or not you are taken will depend upon your behavior, whether you are godly enough or not.

    Then there are those who just simply don’t have an interest. I call them “panners”. They will just let it all “pan out”. Que sera, Que sera.

    It is a sad state of affairs, but it is just exactly what the Word said would be the conditions in the last days.

    We have to hold fast and not let ourselves get distracted and misled by those who are deceived.

    And stay away from Alex Jones and his ilk. There are wolves both in and out of the Church. It is a dangerous time, but remember our Redemption draws near!!! Maranatha! Even so come Lord Jesus!!!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Sharon

    >> It is odd how many Christians think that satan and the fallen angels are in hell. Not yet. They will be someday; but that day is not right now.

    Um, there are some demons that are in hell, they were cast there back in Genesis (we do not know why, what their sin was.). If you read 2 Peter 2:4 it tells us so.
    2 Peter 2:4 “For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;”

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    SHARON

    >> As far as where to go to church I find that we will only get out of church what we put into it.
    >> We get out of a service what we put into it. JMO
    >> are we “late as usual” for the service? Or…do we enter into worship mad at God because He didn’t answer a prayer in the positive for us?

    Sorry to say but I disagree, and I mean this in the nicest of ways. If you live in an area where the churches are full flown Word of Faith, NAR, Calvinistic, and other cults, you are left with nothing. You can’t go to a cult and put into it and hope to get something good out out of it.

    Now for another example, you are a born again Christian, you attend a church but you are finding it increasingly more difficult by the week to listen to what the pastor is preaching because the HOLY SPIRIT is warning you what is being preaching is FALSE. So you go to the pastor (like many Christians have done before) and they tell the pastor their concerns. What happens, they are looked at as though they are mad. Then rumour spreads around the church that you are a trouble maker. You see the Holy Spirit can’t keep company a false spirit. You approach the pastor again to try and make peace, but still letting the pastor know that you are not happy with what is being taught. A couple of weeks go by and ‘you try desperately to ‘put into the church’ by trying to help here and there because you can feel the hatred and you hope that by helping out here and there things will change. But no matter how much you put into it, the bible says they are going to hate you and there is not point, you need to get outta there. So you leave. And you try the next church and the next church and the next church, and then you get labelled and church hopper and you feel bad about that, but the Holy Spirit tells you don’t worry, this is to be expected in these last days. And so as time goes you end up hopping home groups as well, because they start off ok and then dwindle off into false teaching. The only genuine Christians you know live so far away from you, the only way to fellowship is over the phone, via email, etc.

    So please be thankful that you have a pastor and a church! And don’t be so rigid against those who don’t. There are millions of born again Christians around the world looking for genuine fellowship and are struggling to find it because of the area they live in. They do what the can. They study with their husbands and fellowship with maybe one or two others that they can find. And Jesus accepts that! The apostles spent most of his life on the road and in prison being beaten, not lining up all prim and proper and on time for church… Jesus says Matthew 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” and He means it.

  • Sharon

    Those in the grave, the dead IN Christ will rise and we will be “caught up together” with them to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be. The “Rapture” of the church, the Bride of Christ is NOT based on our “works.” I have read that some believe that only those totally sold out to Jesus will go up in the Rapture. This is not true. Our Salvation is not based on good works. The keeping of our Salvation is not based on our works. So going up during the rapture will not be based on our works. Those like us who have received Jesus Christ as Savior will either go up in the Rapture or when we die we will be with our Lord Jesus. Here are some revealing words from the Apostle Paul:
    2Cor 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
    2Cor 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
    2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
    2Cor 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
    2Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    WE, the Saved will be at the “Judgment Seat of Christ. This Judgment is NOT to determine if we are Saved or not. (Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.)

    But we will be judged & rewarded for the things we did here in this life for the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    During the time of the 7 year Tribulation period we will be in heaven, receiving our rewards if any. Then we have the Marriage of the Lamb, our Bridegroom and we His Bride. But hold on… …at the end of the Tribulation. These next verses make this old Baptist gal shout Hallelujah!

    Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
    Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
    Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
    Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
    Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
    Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
    Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
    Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
    Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
    Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. AWESOME!

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Dan

    >> I have a question. On the day of the Rapture, the dead in Christ will arise and together with the bride – will depart for heaven. But with the Second Coming, ALL these people will return WITH Christ to live in His new Kingdom on earth? Is that correct? If so that means that all those verses in the Bible about Him “preparing a feast in heaven”, is refering to what we’ll be doing during the period AFTER the Rapture and BEFORE the Return to earth. Am I way off here? This also means that “going to heaven when you die” – is a myth. Because the scriptures clearly say “on that day the dead shall arise”?

    It’s not complicated as Carolyn would like to think. The Bible EXPLAINS EVERYTHING. You are correct in your thinking regarding the rapture and the marriage supper etc etc. Now…

    “There are some people who were caught up in the first Resurrection. At the time of Jesus’ resurrection, all the righteous dead who had lived from the day of Adam were also resurrected. To those who lived before the resurrection of Christ (See Matthew 27:52-53)

    The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).

    Until the final resurrection, though, there is a temporary heaven—paradise (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4) and a temporary hell—Hades (Revelation 1:18; 20:13-14). As can be clearly seen in Luke 16:19-31, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping. It could be said, though, that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is in paradise or Hades. At the resurrection, this body is “awakened” and transformed into the everlasting body a person will possess for eternity, whether in heaven or hell. Those who were in paradise will be sent to the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Those who were in Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not a person trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation. —http://www.gotquestions.org/soul-sleep.html (please note this is a Calvinist website so use caution when browsing)”

  • Sharon

    Deborah, the time of what you are calling “Paradise” is heaven. Remember this, the Old Testament Saints were in a place of what was called Abrahams Bosom. Then when Jesus Christ died he “lead captivity captive.”

    Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

    The following is how I have been taught concerning this. When the OT Saints died they were in a place of peace and rest. It’s like there is a place with two rooms. One room was Hell and the other Paradise/Abrahams Bosom. (Read Luke 16:19-31) I have heard people say that this true story was just a “Parable.” But proper names (Lazarus) are never used in Parables. So this is a true account of a rich man that died and went to hell. Read this mans description of the torments (plural) he was experiencing. But Lazarus was carried to Abrahams Bosom (that other “room.”)

    When Jesus died he went to this room/paradise where the Old Testaments Saints were and took them Captive and brought them out and he gave gifts to them. What were the gifts? I can’t tell you all of them because I haven’t seen heaven yet. But the greatest gift was Jesus Christ Himself! Since no man comes to the Father but by Jesus that included the OT Saints. They were NOT in hell, nor did Jesus go to hell as the Word of Faith false teachers teach. They were at rest until Jesus brought them out. His precious blood that he had just shed also atoned for the Old Testament Saints.

    I am not eloquent as you can plainly see here, but I gave as simple of example as I can. I see many young (not in age) Christians here at your site and that is a good thing. But the error that they have sometimes been taught is evident and sad. I know I don’t have all the answers, but I have enough of the answers to point them to Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that leads us into all truth. Truth will never contradict the Bible.

    When a New Testament Saint dies they do not go to a “temporary heaven.” That place was Abrahams Bosom. Up until Calvary the Old Testament was still in effect. But when Jesus poured out His precious blood on the Mercy Seat in Heaven the “room” where the Old Testament Saints were was closed! They immediately went to heaven. The thief on the cross that cried out to Jesus took a very fast trip to heaven! The other thief took a fast trip too but it was to hell.

  • Sharon

    I wish to add something to this conversation Michael. What may seem irrelevant to you in any particular topic may not be irrelevant to others. Your words concerning that Divorce should be dealt with here “sternly and aggressively” is just plain wrong. I mean no disrespect but why would you want to use a “blog” to chastise or even warn others about Divorce? If you’ve been through a divorce then you know the pain. If you have not been through a divorce then you have no clue of the pain and anguish the “innocent spouse” goes through. From the beginning of our separation I was and still am willing to take my share of the blame for my marriage breaking down. BUT…until the day I draw my very last breath I will take no blame for a divorce that I didn’t want and did all I knew to do to try to save my marriage.

    Too many Christians, maybe such as yourself, believe that “Divorce” very close to being the unpardonable sin. Yes, Jesus spoke about divorce and so did Paul.

    “I AM DIVORCED” that does not make me a second class citizen of the church or heaven.

    As you can see, I am very passionate about the issue of divorce. I am very passionate about my love and devotion to Jesus Christ. But to be aggressive on a “blog” is an insult. I hope it is obvious that Deborah and I are Daughters of the Most High God and HE alone is our Judge. God sees the “Big Picture” of our lives. He knew before I was born what would happen in my life and yet He still saved me and forgave me.

    Sharon wrote:

    I see your name is Michael. That is the name of the man I was married to for 28 years and then HE decided to divorce me without scriptural grounds. Yes, there are scriptural grounds for a divorce. But any way…here in America the divorce rate among Christians is higher than that of non-Christians. That just ought not to be.

    Michael are you divorced? Do you know what it feels like to give yourself, your whole adult life to someone and you meant until death us do part? I do know what it feels like and frankly I would rather he died than to divorce me. The rejection factor has been for me simply awful. The divorce rocked my faith. It made me search, painfully search for who I now was and did I believe what I always said I believed.

    I am both a granddaughter and sister of Baptist preachers. My father was a Deacon for 60+ years. My mother was a wonderful Deacons wife who met all of the qualifications.
    If my grandfather were alive today he would be totally shocked at the progression of sin in this world.

    No matter how one tries you cannot save a marriage by yourself. No one knows to this day exactly why my “ex” divorced me. My son, nor my daughter knows the answer. I mean there is no such thing as a perfect spouse, but I kept my vows. He did not keep his.

    Yes, God hates divorce. Yes, I hate it too. But when someone has made up their mind to get a divorce nothing but their death will keep them from it. It is caused by the hardness of the heart just as Moses said. Jesus spoke about divorce a little. He has a much better attitude towards divorced people like me than some Christians do.

    NEVER judge a person because they’re divorced. No one knows what it’s like until one goes through it. It’s been 13 years since my divorce and I still have a tough day or two like our anniversary date or the divorce was final. It is a pain that only Jesus can heal.

    They say silver duct tape will fix anything. I say it will fix any thing but a broken heart. That job belongs to Jesus. Peace to you.

    michael wrote:

    Topics are often been innundated with irrevelavent data…or so it seems but most of my comments have been aimed at the main core of all spiritual problems. One of them of them has been sadly neglected but it is indeed one of the most important and that is the question of divorce. Such an important subject that the church has got it it all wrong despite the fact that the Saviour Himself gave very clear instructions and so did Apostle Paul. This is a subject that is paramount to all believers and sadly been neglected with the result of far reaching spiritual problems. A topic that should in this context be addressed very sternly and aggresively.

  • Sharon

    I stand guilty for being rigid; so please accept my truly heartfelt apology. I also understand that you meant what you said in kindness. I forget that a lot of people that post here are not in America. We American True Christians are very spoiled. While there are a great many false teachers here there are also really rock solid churches too. God has used America/American Missionaries to get the gospel of Jesus Christ out to the world. Now America is swiftly becoming a Nation that missionaries will have to come here.

    America has had her share of the Jimmy Swaggarts, Jim Bakkers, Billy Graham and other false teachers. When scandals happen the world sees this and they believe that all Christians are like them. Some of these Wolves are shown to be what they really are so they leave America and head for Europe and other places, Like Todd Bentley…he is a nutty and dangerous wolf.

    There are a few examples of churches in Homes.

    Philemon 1:2 And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:

    Romans 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the first-fruits of Achaia unto Christ.

    1Corinthians 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

    I agree with you about not attending a church where false dogma is taught. What I can tell you about when people go in love to talk to a Pastor concerning something he said people will usually lose and as you say, the rumors start. I find also that if a woman is the one talking to the Pastor about their concerns, they WILL LOSE big time.

    Sometimes Pastors are not “female friendly” to their shame. Women have a vital role in the Church of Jesus Christ. In the Old Testament women were sometimes considered property. But Jesus changed all of that. He elevated women to a lofty and wonderful place. But then sometimes women take more authority than what Jesus permitted.

    The things I mentioned about praying for your Pastor, being on time…etc was meant for those of us here in our church. I have known of people that were those things I said. I am not a “Prim and Proper” old grump. :o) I am also a “late freak!” I hate being late for anything, even when it is something I don’t want to do.

    Hmmmmm I think I just changed topics! :o) Any way please forgive me. Email me some time and tell me where you live.

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    SHARON

    >> As far as where to go to church I find that we will only get out of church what we put into it.
    >> We get out of a service what we put into it. JMO
    >> are we “late as usual” for the service? Or…do we enter into worship mad at God because He didn’t answer a prayer in the positive for us?

    Sorry to say but I disagree, and I mean this in the nicest of ways. If you live in an area where the churches are full flown Word of Faith, NAR, Calvinistic, and other cults, you are left with nothing. You can’t go to a cult and put into it and hope to get something good out out of it.

    Now for another example, you are a born again Christian, you attend a church but you are finding it increasingly more difficult by the week to listen to what the pastor is preaching because the HOLY SPIRIT is warning you what is being preaching is FALSE. So you go to the pastor (like many Christians have done before) and they tell the pastor their concerns. What happens, they are looked at as though they are mad. Then rumour spreads around the church that you are a trouble maker. You see the Holy Spirit can’t keep company a false spirit. You approach the pastor again to try and make peace, but still letting the pastor know that you are not happy with what is being taught. A couple of weeks go by and ‘you try desperately to ‘put into the church’ by trying to help here and there because you can feel the hatred and you hope that by helping out here and there things will change. But no matter how much you put into it, the bible says they are going to hate you and there is not point, you need to get outta there. So you leave. And you try the next church and the next church and the next church, and then you get labelled and church hopper and you feel bad about that, but the Holy Spirit tells you don’t worry, this is to be expected in these last days. And so as time goes you end up hopping home groups as well, because they start off ok and then dwindle off into false teaching. The only genuine Christians you know live so far away from you, the only way to fellowship is over the phone, via email, etc.

    So please be thankful that you have a pastor and a church! And don’t be so rigid against those who don’t. There are millions of born again Christians around the world looking for genuine fellowship and are struggling to find it because of the area they live in. They do what the can. They study with their husbands and fellowship with maybe one or two others that they can find. And Jesus accepts that! The apostles spent most of his life on the road and in prison being beaten, not lining up all prim and proper and on time for church… Jesus says Matthew 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” and He means it.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Sharon

    I totally understand and I am very very happy that you understand :)

  • Sharon

    If you wish to keep the Law of Moses then feel free. But when you do then you must keep all the law. If you have an unruly child, then stone him/her. If you accidently use God’s name in vain then you must be put to death. You will have to purchase for yourself a whole lot of lambs and doves for sacrifices to cover your sins.
    the Sabbath was for Israel and was for the purpose of their perpetual covenant with God.

    harry wrote:

    What is wrong with keeping the Sabbath and what is wrong in keeping Pesach and Sukkot or even any one of the feasts of God. Be carefull what people say is cancelled that is NOT in the Word of God. Paul said that Jew and gentile is one in Messiah. The word of God is clear, if they want to cancel things then so be it. Just do not judge me if I can’t find the cancellation in the Word of God. Each to his own interpretation as well. You interpret it like this they interpret it like that.
    I do agree that there are certain views / interpretations that is far gone and those I will reject because there is written proof that they are wrong.
    I keep the feasts of God not the Jewish feast and I keep Sabbath as it also existed before the Ten Commandments. I do not keep christmas and Easter that is evil days that was taken into the church.pagan worshippers.
    I believe that Jesus Chirst is the son of the Living God and that He died for my sins and for the salvation of the world. I believe that i must be born again and that I must be baptized in water. And so I do.
    If its not in the Bible its not good.

  • Sharon

    Well here in America it is time for Wednesday night prayer meeting. So I will go get ready. Deborah if I could I would take you with me. You would see how folks that love the Lord and that worship God in Spirit and in Truth enjoy services.

    I can’t speak for all churches here but I realize how blessed we are in the USA. May we not take our freedom of worship for granted.

  • Sharon

    I personally believe that the reason some people are involved in these trends is because mankind has always wanted salvation on their own terms. Some want to participate in the Lord’s Supper or Communion every Sunday … etc. God made true salvation so easy for us. It wasn’t easy for Jesus but for us it is easy. Rather than make a thousand different ways to heaven, God made just one way, by grace through faith in Jesus alone. Nothing added, nothing subtracted.

    How many lost souls will stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgment and will say, but my church, my priest, my pastor…etc. God says, what did you do with my Son?

    Salvation is not by good works.

    Lis Jensen wrote:

    I don’t understand, that so many Christians are following the Catholic trend now. Not the belief, but the trend, like Icons, Lectio Devina etc. Do yuo have something about that?

    Blessings,
    Lis Jensen,
    Denmark.

  • Dan

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Dan
    Ah there you are :)
    I’ve never read any of Darby’s work.

    Hi Deborah, I’ve been busy “deciphering” Darby’s ‘Synopsis of the books of the Bible’. What a blessing, but my oh my – it’s old English. Plus he didn’t think before he wrote, he wrote in order to think.
    I still pop in here as often as I can;-) Everything going well? I can’t wait to get started on those two articles you’ve uploaded on Hebrews parts 1 + 2. I pray that you will continue to experience the power of the Holy Spirit in your life and in what you are doing here. Blessings in Christ!

  • Sharon

    Here is how I have heard this taught. When “that” which is perfect is come…etc. IS referring to the Bible. Remember at the time of this Letter to the Corinthian church they did not have the complete scriptures as we do. Greek and many other languages have “genders” such a Male, Female,& Neuter. English words do not have genders. Jesus is always in the Masculine gender; and the true Church of Jesus Christ is always in the Female gender (the Bride). But the Word of God is always in the neuter gender. So the word “that” tells us what the Apostle Paul was talking about, The Word of God. That which IS perfect is the Word.

    Remember there is no “New Revelation.” If you hear a teacher, preacher…etc. say they have a “New Revelation” from God…run, don’t walk, run from that person. They are truly a Wolf in Sheep’s clothing.

    Even what we do know in the word we know very little about Heaven and the things of God so will still see through that “dark glass.” But on the day we walk into heaven, we will know everything that Jesus Christ knows! Face to face, our Faith becomes sight! I feel a big shout of hallelujah coming from deep inside this old Baptist gal.

    As for your other questions I will leave it up to the All Wise Deborah, our handy, living, breathing Bible Commentator! :o)

    1Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
    1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
    1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

    JJ wrote:

    I have a question on 1 cor 13:10. The perfect the verse refers to, my understanding of this verse is that the perfect is the New Testamen, the Bible. I am correct in my understanding of this.

    Now verse 12 states “For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.”
    Some bible commentries suggest that verse 12 makes it unlikely that the perfect is the Bible. Does the perfect mean an imperfect age, and that the perfect will only happen at the Second coming of Christ?

    If we look at Eph 4:11-13 “11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,”

    The apostals, prophets, evangelists etc. were given to build the body of Christ to maturity. Does the maturity in eph 4:13 refer to the perfect in 1 cor 13:10. And does this maturity of the body of Christ also refer to 1 cor 13:12?

    In light of this verses, is the perfect the Bible, or the second coming of Christ? Is eph 4:13 also a reference to completion of the new testament, or the second coming of Christ?

    There seems to be different opinions around these verses. Your input will be highly appreciated.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Sharon

    You are correct, “When “that” which is perfect is come…etc. IS referring to the Bible”

  • Sharon

    Deborah, Last night at church my Pastor was talking about the condition of our World and in particular the USA. The newspapers are filled with scandals from Government, to supposed Churches that say they proclaim Jesus Christ as the only Savior.

    There is so much negativity that we can get burdened down with all of the corruption going on around us. Even here on your blog as you and others expose the works of darkness makes it sometimes depressing. (You do a great job!)

    No one has knocked Jesus off the Throne! He has not backed off from the affairs of mankind. OUR GOD, OUR SAVIOR IS STILL IN CONTROL! Nothing takes Him by surprise. He isn’t sitting at the Right Hand of the Father scratching His head and wondering, “How did that happen?”

    Governments around the world may turn against us, but look here: Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
    Sometimes His Kids can get bogged down with what is going on around us. Sometimes these things can even be frightening especially if you have kids and grandkids.

    When I find myself “fretting” over the evil in this world, I have to draw back, set my eyes on my King and find fulfillment in knowing the God of the Universe loved me so much and wanted me to live someday in heaven with Him, that He became the God/Man Jesus Christ, then died on a very cruel cross to redeem some wretch like me.

    I believe in the days ahead we will have to have a great deal of courage; the kid of courage that no matter what is going on around us and maybe even to us, that we will have to do as the following verse says: Matthew 17:8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

    It is 6:15 AM here in Louisiana (Central Time Zone in the USA) Let’s remember these two verses today: Psalm 30:5 For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning. & Psalm 118:24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

    Jesus loves us far more than we can even imagine! Have a great day!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Sharon

    Thank you for that encouragement. And you are so right. God knows that the world is turning evil, He told us this would happen and He told us to expect these things. Sometimes we just get taken-a-back because WE couldn’t think it could get any worse and then it does lol. It just means we are to hold onto Him tighter and tighter as time passes, until He comes to take us home.

  • Sharon

    Isn’t it awesome that the God of the Universe holds US tighter and tighter as time is swiftly passing and will soon come to an end. He will never, ever, absolutely never, ever let go of us! I feel a shout coming on! AMEN!

    2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
    2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
    2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
    2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
    2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Sharon

    Thank you for that encouragement. And you are so right. God knows that the world is turning evil, He told us this would happen and He told us to expect these things. Sometimes we just get taken-a-back because WE couldn’t think it could get any worse and then it does lol. It just means we are to hold onto Him tighter and tighter as time passes, until He comes to take us home.

  • Sharon

    Deborah, which country do your reside in? Also, what is the prevailing attitude of people in your country about the USA? I know some people in other countries believe we are all arrogant war-mongers. That we believe we do not care about other people around the world.

    My country is not perfect in any sense of the word. Crime is rampant. Government whether local or national is scandalous. We are being “set-up” for the last days here. When I say “we” I mean Bible believing Christians that believe in the Rapture of the church are labeled as dangerous. My son is in the US Air Force. Our military men and woman have been labeled as dangerous too.

    But, when there is a National Disaster any where around the world it is the USA that rushes aid in to help the victims of that disaster. The citizens of the USA are the most generous givers to these causes as well. But when a disaster happens here we citizens hear, “serves them right,” or the USA can go to hell. I remember when Hurricane
    Katrina hit New Orleans, Louisiana Saudi Arabia sent ICE. They sent ICE! We made the sheiks over there rich. Without American technology they would still be riding to town on their camels.

    Then there are the countries that still love us and remember what we did for them during WWII. One of my Pastors from many years ago took a group of folks to the Philippines. The ladies of our church fill trunk loads of supplies for the folks in the jungle regions. We sent things for kids like Tylenol for Children, cough syrup, coloring books and crayons, Neosporin gel, Band-Aid bandages….just all kinds of stuff. One of the folks that went took his guitar which he ended up leaving there with a Native Pastor serving the folks in very remote places. Some how some cassette tapes of me singing Christian songs and a tape player with batteries. The jungle people loved the Americans. Some of the older folks remembered what America did to liberate them.
    But in Manila they hated us. Plus there were anti-American riots going on for what ever reason.

    I find it interesting that sometimes when you see on Television these folks that hate us, they are wearing American made clothing and shoes. Go figure.

    Any way, I was just wondering what the attitude was there where you live.

  • Sharon

    http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/ and another is http://www.blessedquietness.com/

    Deborah, the above web site is pretty good. I thought you might like to take a look at it. The second one mentioned is a good site. I have used his site many times while studying. He was a Missionary at one time some where in your area of the world.

    I hope you enjoy both of them.

  • Sharon

    Deborah, did you ever attend some sort of Christian College? Since I am not familiar with where you live I do not know what access you have to such places. When I was too rigid concerning church attendance I figure that if there are no good churches close to you that there may not be a place of Christian College learning. If you have not God has blessed you with a vast amount of wisdom. Knowledge comes from College, but wisdom comes from God. :o)

    I was just wondering.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Sharon

    >> Deborah, did you ever attend some sort of Christian College? Since I am not familiar with where you live I do not know what access you have to such places. When I was too rigid concerning church attendance I figure that if there are no good churches close to you that there may not be a place of Christian College learning. If you have not God has blessed you with a vast amount of wisdom. Knowledge comes from College, but wisdom comes from God. :o)

    I am from South Africa, and nope I have not attended any Christian College. All my studies have been with bible in hand and the use of the internet and the Holy Spirit. South Africa is a haven of Dutch Reformed Churches(Calvinistic churches) and Word of Faith churches and then every strange doctrine in between. I live in the very northern part of South Africa and I have done my rounds and found nothing so far. I am however fellowshipping with 2 other people. Because of my illness, I am not allowed to drive, so it kind of leaves stranded in getting around. So I do what I can when I can.

    I spend hours and hours reading and studying and praying and asking Jesus for guidance. Before I come online I pray and I ask Jesus to please guide my every thought and word on what to say to people. Sometimes I make mistakes, and I’ve notices it’s when I’ve become sidetracked and not focused.

  • Sharon

    I am happy you have two others to fellowship with. I believe and I do not mean this to sound arrogant, so if I do please forgive me. I believe that when a Christian lives with permanent disabilities it will make us either bitter or better. If we choose to become better then the Lord will surely use us. If we choose to be bitter then we are just plain bitter. Disabled people have no more of the Lord than anyone else in His family. But sometimes He has more of us but that comes with a price. Immature Christian compare themselves to other Christians. Oh I wish I had the faith of so-in-so. Or I wish I could do this like her. But would they be willing to “pay the price?”

    I’m sure you would love to be healed just as I would. But do I believe I am going to be healed in this life? No. Is that a lack of faith on my part? No way! My God is a God of miracles. We love a very big God! But back in the 70′s I prayed and said, Lord if you wish to heal me then go ahead. But if you can get more Honor & Glory from my broken body then so be it. I just ask for extra grace. He has never failed me yet.

    I am no “Super Christian.” I have fallen short of the Glory of God many times. I am so thankful He never said, “You must be perfect to live in heaven.” Praise God I was not born un the Law of Moses. I would never have made it to my present age of 58.

    Your comment of, “So I do what I can when I can.” Here is a wonderful verse about that very thing:Mark 14:6 And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me.
    Mark 14:7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
    Mark 14:8 She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.

    That is all the Lord requires of His kids. “She hath done what she could.” I just love that. He sure made the men shut up with that comment! :o)

    I pray God will continue blessing you with wisdom and knowledge. One day in Glory we will have to do lunch at the “Crystal River Café” in heaven. :o)

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Sharon

    >> Deborah, did you ever attend some sort of Christian College? Since I am not familiar with where you live I do not know what access you have to such places. When I was too rigid concerning church attendance I figure that if there are no good churches close to you that there may not be a place of Christian College learning. If you have not God has blessed you with a vast amount of wisdom. Knowledge comes from College, but wisdom comes from God. :o)

    I am from South Africa, and nope I have not attended any Christian College. All my studies have been with bible in hand and the use of the internet and the Holy Spirit. South Africa is a haven of Dutch Reformed Churches(Calvinistic churches) and Word of Faith churches and then every strange doctrine in between. I live in the very northern part of South Africa and I have done my rounds and found nothing so far. I am however fellowshipping with 2 other people. Because of my illness, I am not allowed to drive, so it kind of leaves stranded in getting around. So I do what I can when I can.

    I spend hours and hours reading and studying and praying and asking Jesus for guidance. Before I come online I pray and I ask Jesus to please guide my every thought and word on what to say to people. Sometimes I make mistakes, and I’ve notices it’s when I’ve become sidetracked and not focused.

  • Sharon

    http://ivarfjeld.com/

    I discovered the above web site just about an hour ago. The man does a good job of exposing the Vatican and the RCC.

    Another good info site is http://www.wnd.com it is World Net Daily [Edited: This is not a good website: They are pro-NAR and promote false teaching]

    Deborah, I pray you are feeling good today. We take each day as it comes and live for Jesus in each day.

  • Sharon

    Redeemed you are correct. The Holy Spirit is the most sensitive part of the Trinity and can easily be grieved. There is a man here in the USA that has a web site and he invites people to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. I have never gone to his web site, I just read about it. This young man has no clue as to what he has done. By this blasphemy he has doomed and damned himself to hell for all eternity as do the others that participate on his web site. I love the Holy Spirit. I love Him because He convicts my heart when I have sinned. He comforts me when I need it most, which is just about every day.

    Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

    Redeemed wrote:

    Smiley, the Holy Spirit does not force Himself upon anyone and can be quenched (suppressed)and grieved. He draws and convicts, but it is our choice whether to respond or not.

    Refer to I Thessalonians 5:19 which instructs us not to quench the Holy Spirit.
    Ephesians 4:30 warns us not to grieve the Holy Spirit.

  • Sharon

    I meant to add this verse to the above post concerning the Holy Spirit.

    Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Sharon

    http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/ and another is http://www.blessedquietness.com/

    Deborah, the above web site is pretty good. I thought you might like to take a look at it. The second one mentioned is a good site. I have used his site many times while studying. He was a Missionary at one time some where in your area of the world.

    The first one promotes The Harbinger and that is as far as I got – That Harbinger is false. Kahn is one of their contributors as well as Chuck Baldwin, a political junkie. Not a safe place. I was less than impressed with the 2nd link. A bunch of KJV ONLISM mishmash. I honestly would not frequent it.

    I have my places where I get good solid biblical teaching, I don’t need websites like these, but thank you very much for showing them to me :)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Sharon

    >> I believe that when a Christian lives with permanent disabilities it will make us either bitter or better. If we choose to become better then the Lord will surely use us. If we choose to be bitter then we are just plain bitter. If we choose to become better then the Lord will surely use us. If we choose to be bitter then we are just plain bitter.

    Ah but you see if you have the Holy Spirit abiding in you you should not be bitter about your disability. It’s not about what you choose, it’s about what the Holy Spirit inside you
    reflects out of you; and one of those things is not bitterness. Yes you can be sad sometimes about your disability because it’s debilitating and you can even get depressed (I suffer with the most excruciating headaches day in and day out and the pain just depresses me – this is a normal emotion for any person that is suffering from ongoing pain. But bitterness is something different. I’ve never once asked God why this has happened to me, I just accept it and I pray that He heals me or uses me and my disability. It appears the latter is what He is doing :) And I am grateful for that. I do not complain. Yes I ask him to take the pain away sometimes because sometimes it’s so bad that I am down and out for days on end and I cry. But bitterness or anything negative like that has never crossed my mind. I look to Jesus Christ each day to help get me through the day, and He does.

  • Sharon

    Both sites do have meat. I have been guilty sometimes of throwing out said meat with the bones when exposing something I personally believe is wrong. The first sight and it’s Harbinger stuff is one of the things I do not agree with. But there are many other things they have that are “Right on the Money.” The second site is a KJV only site. But he exposes many different false teachings. In his quest to “endure hardness as a good soldier of Christ he seems to be a bit too hard on some things. (2Timothy 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.) I too have been too “rigid” in my beliefs.” (I’m sure that surprises you :o)) I suppose all of us who love the Word of God, and study it on a regular basis love to believe that we are 100% right on every thing. For me if I get that way then I am no longer “teachable.”

    3John 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Sharon

    http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/ and another is http://www.blessedquietness.com/

    Deborah, the above web site is pretty good. I thought you might like to take a look at it. The second one mentioned is a good site. I have used his site many times while studying. He was a Missionary at one time some where in your area of the world.

    The first one promotes The Harbinger and that is as far as I got – That Harbinger is false. Kahn is one of their contributors as well as Chuck Baldwin, a political junkie. Not a safe place. I was less than impressed with the 2nd link. A bunch of KJV ONLISM mishmash. I honestly would not frequent it.

    I have my places where I get good solid biblical teaching, I don’t need websites like these, but thank you very much for showing them to me :)

  • Sharon

    Like you, I have not questioned God “why” about the disabilities I was born with. I just simply say, it is life here below on a sin-curse Earth. I freely admit that there have been others things I asked God the big “WHY.” Does He give me the answer, no. He just says, “trust me” and that I do. I believe our God is big enough that He can handle those times when in our weakness, our humanness (is that a word)that we ask Him the “WHY.”

    You and I have a few things in common. I used to have simply horrible Migraine Headaches. But when the pharmaceutical companies came out with excellent medications for them I went from 3 a week to may 1 in 3 months and even that was not as bad as before.

    I have seen Christians (I did not doubt them when they sais they were saved) that have been bitter. It is not a pretty sight. When a Christian is confronted with a personal problem or even a tragedy in their life I still believe they can choose to either be bitter or better. I believe it because I believe in the NON-CALVINIST Free Will. If a Christian chooses to be bitter it is then they offend the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit living in us has not pushed us into perfection… …not yet, not here.

    Like you, I am not bitter. I live my life one day at a time.

    3John1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Sharon

    >> I believe that when a Christian lives with permanent disabilities it will make us either bitter or better. If we choose to become better then the Lord will surely use us. If we choose to be bitter then we are just plain bitter. If we choose to become better then the Lord will surely use us. If we choose to be bitter then we are just plain bitter.

    Ah but you see if you have the Holy Spirit abiding in you you should not be bitter about your disability. It’s not about what you choose, it’s about what the Holy Spirit inside you
    reflects out of you; and one of those things is not bitterness. Yes you can be sad sometimes about your disability because it’s debilitating and you can even get depressed (I suffer with the most excruciating headaches day in and day out and the pain just depresses me – this is a normal emotion for any person that is suffering from ongoing pain. But bitterness is something different. I’ve never once asked God why this has happened to me, I just accept it and I pray that He heals me or uses me and my disability. It appears the latter is what He is doing :) And I am grateful for that. I do not complain. Yes I ask him to take the pain away sometimes because sometimes it’s so bad that I am down and out for days on end and I cry. But bitterness or anything negative like that has never crossed my mind. I look to Jesus Christ each day to help get me through the day, and He does.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Sharon

    >> I have been guilty sometimes of throwing out said meat with the bones when exposing something I personally believe is wrong.

    The thing is that this website is all exposing false teaching and staying on the narrow path. It’s my duty to warn people that things are problematic, not keep silent. So if a website SEEMS ok, but is actually not, then I will say something.

    For instance the http://ivarfjeld.com/ – great website on exposing the RCC but I picked up that he is anti pretrib – for anyone that is struggling spiritually a website like this will throw them off track and possibly lead them to another path.

    So I will throw the baby out with the bathwater on this website. Only those who are really spiritually sound will go to websites like the this and come out of them as sane as they entered.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Sharon

    >> If a Christian chooses to be bitter it is then they offend the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit living in us has not pushed us into perfection… …not yet, not here.

    Well said.

    Regarding the headaches; I wish they were migraines, then I would have something to take, but they are not migraines, it’s due to the Epilepsy, and the brain is so complicated and, and, and, and..

  • Sharon

    I know Chuck Baldwin. He and my “ex” started out at the same Bible College in Pontiac, Michigan USA in 1972; but in Chuck’s 2nd year he left and went to Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia USA. Yes he is off the deep end at times politically. But he is a good man, a good soldier of Christ. I really know his mother-in-law much better as we were very good friends. I remember when Chucks wife Sarah was just a baby and I helped care for her in the church nursery. That was in about 1973 or 74. Whew….I’m getting old! :o)

    Chuck pastored Crossroads Baptist Church in Pensacola, Florida USA for some where around 33 years. He was recognized by President Reagan for starting and having one of the fastest growing churches in the USA during the 80′s.

    Then he and his whole family some 25 or so of them moved about 3 years ago to Kalispell, Montana, USA and started Liberty Fellowship Church.

    I won’t recommend any more sites Deborah. I have to keep reminding myself that this site is not a sight in the United States of America. There are some people here on this site that I have no clue who they are and I surely do not understand the political climate in South Africa.

    3John 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Sharon

    http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/ and another is http://www.blessedquietness.com/

    Deborah, the above web site is pretty good. I thought you might like to take a look at it. The second one mentioned is a good site. I have used his site many times while studying. He was a Missionary at one time some where in your area of the world.

    The first one promotes The Harbinger and that is as far as I got – That Harbinger is false. Kahn is one of their contributors as well as Chuck Baldwin, a political junkie. Not a safe place. I was less than impressed with the 2nd link. A bunch of KJV ONLISM mishmash. I honestly would not frequent it.

    I have my places where I get good solid biblical teaching, I don’t need websites like these, but thank you very much for showing them to me :)

  • Sharon

    I truly feel for you…when your head hurts you hurt all over.

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Sharon

    >> If a Christian chooses to be bitter it is then they offend the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit living in us has not pushed us into perfection… …not yet, not here.

    Well said.

    Regarding the headaches; I wish they were migraines, then I would have something to take, but they are not migraines, it’s due to the Epilepsy, and the brain is so complicated and, and, and, and..

  • Sharon

    I’ve never been known for being sane! :o) I agree with you as it concerns young Christians. This comments I’m fixing to make is about me, not you. When I expose something to another Christian I want them to see it from the unction of the Holy Spirit & the Word of God teaching them. I don’t want them to believe or not believe something because Sharon said so. I am praying about an opportunity to teach a woman’s class at my church. I do not know yet if the Lord will permit it. If it is about me, then it will fail. But if it is all about Him then I will be used of Him. That is a burning passion I have. I want to be used in what ever capacity the Lord chooses for me at this point in my life.

    I tell people that I am not a teacher. I’m not a speaker. BUT I am a talker and I love to talk about the Word of God. I pray that my passionate love for Jesus Christ shows in what I “talk” and in my walk.

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Sharon

    >> I have been guilty sometimes of throwing out said meat with the bones when exposing something I personally believe is wrong.

    The thing is that this website is all exposing false teaching and staying on the narrow path. It’s my duty to warn people that things are problematic, not keep silent. So if a website SEEMS ok, but is actually not, then I will say something.

    For instance the http://ivarfjeld.com/ – great website on exposing the RCC but I picked up that he is anti pretrib – for anyone that is struggling spiritually a website like this will throw them off track and possibly lead them to another path.

    So I will throw the baby out with the bathwater on this website. Only those who are really spiritually sound will go to websites like the this and come out of them as sane as they entered.

  • Wayne Jack

    Obama White House Twitter account has turned the eagle UPSIDE DOWN on the President’s Seal. The wording is still right side up. Obama is upside down as a president. This is a Demonic sign and is a warning that the USA is about to be turned “upside down” soon. If anyone lives in the USA like I do, be prepared. My guess is that we will soon see some huge natural disasters like never before. Please pray for the USA. The Evil doers are toast.

    May the Mighty Lord Jesus keep us (believers) safe.

    God Bless everyone!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Really? What’s the twitter account name? This is what I found and I don’t see no eagle? https://twitter.com/whitehouse

  • Sharon

    I did not see anything you described. I am an American. Wayne, we don’t need a twitter account to tell us we’re in big trouble in the USA. As far as what you describe being a “demonic sign” I don’t know about that. We give satan too much credit sometimes. Is satan to blame for the problems that we have in the USA? Could it be that a few generations of Christians including this present generation are to blame? Churches have become “the place to be seen” like a country club offering ski trips, golf outings and the like. There is nothing wrong with having hobbies. But when they become the focal point of the church then something is very wrong and I won’t blame satan for that. We have some Pastors that teach that hell doesn’t exist and that your good works will get you into heaven. No, I won’t blame “signs” that may or may not be “demonic” for the condition of America.

    America has not cornered the market on sin either. The WHOLE WORLD is about to be shaken, not just the USA. There is strife in Russia, China, Africa, USA, Canada, Mexico, England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland and on and on and on. The biggest problem I see with we Americans is that we have become spoiled brats! Every one wants “their rights” and believe that their rights are more important than someone else’s rights. We have had an abundance of food for generations. We have been called the “bread basket of the world.” Our technology, especially in the field of medicine is unsurpassed. Our technology to get the oil out of the ground made every Arab Sheik rich and yet because of their “religion of peace” they hate all of us. But their nations will not be immune from the shaking of the earth that is coming.

    We as Christian citizens of the USA and every other country are going to need courage in the days ahead. If you believe as I do, that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, that He lived a sinless life, He died on the cross and shed His most precious blood for the sins of ALL mankind, that he was in the tomb for three days and rose again so that we might have eternal life and if we dare believe in the rapture of all true Christians then we will be considered the enemy. While scripture plainly and clearly teaches that we, the Bride of Christ, will NOT go through the Great Tribulation (Jesus is not a bride beater) but that doesn’t mean that we will be immune from a great persecution. That will happen all over the world not just in America.

    It is past time to stop worrying about our President. In Dan_4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men. It is God alone that give the kingdoms to who ever HE wills. Sure we have the right to vote, but in God’s political system HE appoints the rulers of the nations.

    Stop worrying about what is or isn’t demonic. Evil is every where so it doesn’t take much to know who tempts man to do evil and it isn’t God. Our time left here is about the purpose of life…To know God, To make Him known and thereby Glorify Him.

    Wayne, live the life God has given you. Don’t get bogged down with things of this world but in turn don’t be so heavenly minded that you’re no earthly good. God is faithful. He will go through the coming storms with us.

    Rest in His peace Wayne.

    Wayne Jack wrote:

    Obama White House Twitter account has turned the eagle UPSIDE DOWN on the President’s Seal. The wording is still right side up. Obama is upside down as a president. This is a Demonic sign and is a warning that the USA is about to be turned “upside down” soon. If anyone lives in the USA like I do, be prepared. My guess is that we will soon see some huge natural disasters like never before. Please pray for the USA. The Evil doers are toast.

    May the Mighty Lord Jesus keep us (believers) safe.

    God Bless everyone!

  • Claudia

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Really? What’s the twitter account name? This is what I found and I don’t see no eagle? https://twitter.com/whitehouse

    Hi Deborah,

    Scroll down…. it is hidden behind the text. Interesting.

  • Sharon

    oops, I meant Chucks daughter Sarah, not his wife. Her name is Connie.

    Sharon wrote:

    I know Chuck Baldwin. He and my “ex” started out at the same Bible College in Pontiac, Michigan USA in 1972; but in Chuck’s 2nd year he left and went to Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia USA. Yes he is off the deep end at times politically. But he is a good man, a good soldier of Christ. I really know his mother-in-law much better as we were very good friends. I remember when Chucks wife Sarah was just a baby and I helped care for her in the church nursery. That was in about 1973 or 74. Whew….I’m getting old! :o)

    Chuck pastored Crossroads Baptist Church in Pensacola, Florida USA for some where around 33 years. He was recognized by President Reagan for starting and having one of the fastest growing churches in the USA during the 80′s.

    Then he and his whole family some 25 or so of them moved about 3 years ago to Kalispell, Montana, USA and started Liberty Fellowship Church.

    I won’t recommend any more sites Deborah. I have to keep reminding myself that this site is not a sight in the United States of America. There are some people here on this site that I have no clue who they are and I surely do not understand the political climate in South Africa.

    3John 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Sharon

    http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/ and another is http://www.blessedquietness.com/

    Deborah, the above web site is pretty good. I thought you might like to take a look at it. The second one mentioned is a good site. I have used his site many times while studying. He was a Missionary at one time some where in your area of the world.

    The first one promotes The Harbinger and that is as far as I got – That Harbinger is false. Kahn is one of their contributors as well as Chuck Baldwin, a political junkie. Not a safe place. I was less than impressed with the 2nd link. A bunch of KJV ONLISM mishmash. I honestly would not frequent it.

    I have my places where I get good solid biblical teaching, I don’t need websites like these, but thank you very much for showing them to me :)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Oh my goodness, I see it! What the…

    Thanks, guys… my word.

  • cecilia

    I don’t know whether I could post this here, but here goes:

    Dear Deborah
    I am glad that you are merging with Waak en Bid!

    God works in mysterious ways, isn’t it?

    oh yes, I’ve read the post comment about the upside down eagle on the President’s seal in America, and came upon this page, which might interest you?

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2013/05/17/the-fallen-eagle-has-landed-with-a-thud/

    anyways, I’m always praying for you. the Lord God bless you and make you a blessing to others! c

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Heya C

    Of course you can post it here :) Thank you for the link that that article.

    love you!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Now that article on the ‘fallen eagle’ makes sense, but then why put the eagle on twitter like that? If you are in the whitehouse and you took a photo of the eagle on the roof you could do it facing the Right way in order the that eagle faces upright…

  • Sharon

    I looked at the site. Nothing surprises me about this administration. With that said, it really doesn’t matter. I love my country but I’m just passing through. The USA is not my final home. I believe we are in the very last of the last days and all of the conspiracy theories are always going to be there. The “Illumined Ones” the “Elite” hide in plain sight. There is symbolism all over the USA concerning the New World Order. The Olympics had symbolism every where. So if the “Elite” are hiding in plain sight in the USA and Great Britain then they hide in plain sight all over the world.

    This is nothing but a distraction for some Christians I know. There is nothing wrong with being Patriotic and loving one’s nation. Americans have had this rabid passion for politics and it gets dirty. So when we see our government corruption no matter what country we live in we have to remember that the Government is on HIS shoulders. He gives the kingdoms to who ever HE wills.

    Our duty as good citizens, Christian citizens is to pray for those in authority over us, whether we like them or not. But most of all we are to keep our eyes on Jesus Christ.

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Now that article on the ‘fallen eagle’ makes sense, but then why put the eagle on twitter like that? If you are in the whitehouse and you took a photo of the eagle on the roof you could do it facing the Right way in order the that eagle faces upright…

  • Robbie

    mmm makes me think of some church seals that changed the dove (supposed to represent the Holy Spirit) upside down and turn it into a kamakazi dove? (one that heads straight down)

    A resemblance would not surprise me… the church is also turned on it’s head. i e.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaanse_Protestantse_Kerk

  • Jean

    I love and forgive. Why do you post articles that claim I don’t because I am reformed? Do you know me?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Jean

    I know your doctrine and Calvinists agree that If they love Christ they then must hate unbelievers, I am according to you and unbeliever because I am not Elect. Please do some research on your own doctrine and then come back and tell me you ‘don’t love and forgive’. If after finding out the truth about Calvinism and you really do love and forgive, then you need to change doctrines and instead of being Elect, get Saved!

  • Redeemed

    Jean, please examine your beliefs. You may sincerely believe that you love and forgive, but what exactly do you mean by that?

    Firstly, do you believe that Christ died for all mankind or do you believe that He only died for certain ones? Do you believe in Limited Atonement?

    Do you believe that God loves everyone and desires that everyone be saved?

    Do you believe that God created some people with the intent of sending them to an eternal hell?

    The aim of this website is to help you, not attack you or any other Calvinst/Reformed person for that matter.

  • Sharon

    Our purpose is to Know God, Make Him known and thereby glorify God.

    Micheline wrote:

    I have a question, if I may:

    What is the human being’s purpose on earth?

  • Sharon

    As an American I am spoiled where good Christian music is concerned. Yes, we must be very careful because just as there is a Counterfeit Christianity with it’s Counterfeit “Savior” there is also Counterfeit Christian Music. To be safe in the area of music I find that the Great Hymns of the Faith are usually safe. But not all of them are scriptural.

    I came from a some what musical family. My dad lead the singing in the little Baptist church that I grew up in. I will post my very favorite hymn here. I have asked Deborah if it will be ok to do this from time to time as a source of encouragement for us. Any words of a song I post will no longer be under copyright so it will be ok. Plus all my favorites are scriptural. If I have the information I will tell the history of the hymn. So, here is my all time favorite hymn. IT IS WELL WITH MY SOUL

    This hymn was written after two major traumas in Spafford’s life. The first was the great Chicago Fire of October 1871, which ruined him financially (he had been a wealthy businessman). Shortly after, while crossing the Atlantic, all four of Spafford’s daughters died in a collision with another ship. Spafford’s wife Anna survived and sent him the now famous telegram, “Saved alone.” Several weeks later, as Spafford’s own ship passed near the spot where his daughters died, the Holy Spirit inspired these words. They speak to the eternal hope that all believers have, no matter what pain and grief befall them on earth.

    When peace, like a river, attendeth my way,
    When sorrows like sea billows roll;
    Whatever my lot, Thou hast taught me to say,
    It is well, it is well with my soul.
    It is well with my soul,
    It is well, it is well with my soul.

    Though Satan should buffet, tho’ trials should come,
    Let this blest assurance control,
    That Christ has regarded my helpless estate,
    And hath shed His own blood for my soul.
    It is well with my soul,
    It is well, it is well with my soul.

    My sin—oh, the bliss of this glorious tho’t:
    My sin, not in part, but the whole,
    Is nailed to the cross and I bear it no more,
    Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!
    It is well with my soul,
    It is well, it is well with my soul.

    And, Lord, haste the day when the faith shall be sight,
    The clouds be rolled back as a scroll,
    The trump shall resound and the Lord shall descend,
    “Even so” it is well with my soul.
    It is well with my soul,
    It is well, it is well with my soul.

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Dan

    To be honest I don’t recommend any. Even your ‘Christian worship music’ is tainted by people who profess the name of Jesus but are only doing it to make money (selling cd’s)

    I was very much into heavy music before I was saved, so I now do not listen to any music voluntarily. It was something that I gave up to follow Jesus Christ totally. I tried to find a replacement, but worldly music, be is classified as Christian is still worldly. People listen to it to satisfy their feelings, emotions, their flesh – they say they are praising God, but they are not, they themselves are enjoying the tune, not God.

    Sing to Jesus in your own privacy, with your own words, not someone else’s (who had a different meaning to their words).

  • Sharon

    You answered your question in your question. Jesus gave his disciples the ability to raise the dead. Those disciples went on to be called Apostles. The word Apostle means, One that is sent and they also knew Jesus Christ in person. Even the Apostle Paul knew Jesus in person on the road to Damascus. The miracle capability of the Apostles stopped when the last one died, the Apostle John. There are no true Apostles today since no one has seen Jesus Christ in person. Do miracles still happen? Yes, I do believe they do. First the best miracle of all is when a sinner realizes he/she needs a savior and then places their faith and trust in Him.

    I will give you an example of a miracle in the life of my father. My dad was given 4 days to live because he had both Pancreatic and Liver cancer. No one survives those cancers together. My dad lived for 12 more years! Did he go to a “faith healer.” NO! He was healed by God and God used my dad’s doctor to treat him with the proper medications. But eventually, in 2008 my dad went home to live with Jesus forever. Did his cancer return, nope! He died from double pneumonia. But now he is completely and totally healed forever. My momma died that same year and she is totally healed forever too. Praise God!

    Dan wrote:

    In Matthew, Jesus gave his disciples the tools they need to go and preach the gospel. Those tools included raising the dead, why don’t we see that happening in modern times? In today’s world?

  • Sharon

    I meant to say masculine, feminine and neuter. Oh well, I’m an American what can I say. :o)

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Sharon

    You are correct, “When “that” which is perfect is come…etc. IS referring to the Bible”

  • Wayne Jack

    Deborah that is the correct link. You can’t see it? It’s right in front of you. I don’t know how you can miss it.

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Really? What’s the twitter account name? This is what I found and I don’t see no eagle? https://twitter.com/whitehouse

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Wayne

    Read the comments properly! I didn’t see it at first, then I did and this is what I say. And it’s not right in front of you, you have to scroll down, and it’s hidden.

  • Dan

    Has anyone ever read any of Mark Cahill’s books? Are they sound? Please advice.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    Never even heard of him, sorry.

  • Redeemed

    Dan, regarding Mark Cahill.
    He is an evangelist and although I have not followed his ministry closely, there is good reason to believe that he is solid.

    Mr. Cahill came out firmly against Calvinism in 2010 and unleased a firestorm of wrath from both Calvinist/Reformed and others who accused him of “dividing the Body of Christ” when in fact he was spreading forth the truth.

    This is not an endorsement because I do not know this blogger, but he spells it out pretty clearly where Mr. Cahill is coming from and what he says dovetails with what Deborah’s and Tom’s site stands for.

    Until I hear differently, I would put Mr. Cahill in the “good guys” column.

    Here is the link: http://blog.savetheperishing.com/?p=523

  • Dan

    Thank you Redeemed for the feedback. Deborah, I wanted to make the following comment on “Back to Rome or is it Babylon?” However, it seems the comments section is closed or maybe there was a problem when I tried.

    We know that the next kingdom to be established on earth is not of God. According to the Book of Daniel it will come in the form of a revived Roman Empire.
    First, a world united under a single universal world religion, established with the arrival of the False Christ. He is Allah, Krishna, the Buddha, the Catholic Christ – basically any one of these the masses will feel comfortable with. Even the Jews mistakenly accept him as their Messiah because he brings peace to the Middle – East. This false Christ will then focus his followers’ attention to a prominent Political Leader.

    Second, this Political Leader unites the world under one political system and he creates a single world financial system, that abolishes all private or individual business transactions that are not part of the global system.

    The Boston Bombing, the Woolwich attack – are created events that will become more frequent because they have a desired objective in mind: get the people to demand tougher legislation that will deal with religious extremists. Once these laws are in place, they will be used to start persecuting the only religion that stands in the way of “a world united for peace,” under a one world religion: Evangelical Christianity.

    On October 27, 1986 – Leaders from all different faiths and denominations, from across the world, came together in Rome for the first ‘Day of Prayer’. A 160 leaders were present and every religion was represented except one, Evangelical Christianity. The pope called them “a sect”. Evangelical Christians believe that Jesus is “the” way to God instead of “a” way to God. “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me”. (Joh 14:6) The concept of “a” way to God, is paving the way for a Universal Creator / god to be accepted by the masses. “ANOTHER Jesus with ANOTHER gospel” as described in (2 Cor 11:4). Clearly this leaves no room for any “other Christ” – which makes their goal of unification impossible.

    http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/24/the-boston-bombings-and-the-cia-connection-graham-fuller-and-uncle-ruslan-tsarnaev/

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    >> I wanted to make the following comment on “Back to Rome or is it Babylon?” However, it seems the comments section is closed or maybe there was a problem when I tried.

    I think you can try comment there now.

  • Sharon

    It’s time for a hymn since I remembered to post them here instead of others places…I’m such a goofball! But Jesus loves me. Here’s an Oldie & a Goodie.

    When We All Get to Heaven
    Sing the wondrous love of Jesus,
    Sing His mercy and His grace.
    In the mansions bright and blessèd
    He’ll prepare for us a place.

    Refrain:

    When we all get to Heaven,
    What a day of rejoicing that will be!
    When we all see Jesus,
    We’ll sing and shout the victory!

    While we walk the pilgrim pathway,
    Clouds will overspread the sky;
    But when traveling days are over,
    Not a shadow, not a sigh.

    Refrain

    Let us then be true and faithful,
    Trusting, serving every day;
    Just one glimpse of Him in glory
    Will the toils of life repay.

    Refrain

    Onward to the prize before us!
    Soon His beauty we’ll behold;
    Soon the pearly gates will open;
    We shall tread the streets of gold.

    Refrain

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Sharon

    lovely!

  • Andrew

    Dear John, thank you for your support I appreciate it. Nou oor na ons vriend, Thomas.
    Thomas, Jy het Gen. 1:26 gelees en ek is seker, doelbewus nie die daaropvolgende vers 27 gelees nie, wat lees: En God het die mens geskape na Sy beeld; na die beeld van God het Hy hom geskape, man en vrou het Hy hulle geskape. Want dit bewys wat God bedoel het,(na Sy beeld en nie HULLE beeld, na die beeld van God het Hy, nie na die beeld van God het HULLE, vervang al die “Hy’s” met hulle soos jy glo, dan sien ons waar jy uitkom. Dit daargelaat. Jy kon nie my vraag beantwoord van hoe die beeld van die eerste Persoon van die Drie-eenheid lyk nie. Ek gaan jou nou voorstel aan die Beeld van God!” Hy is die Beeld van die onsienlike God, die Eersgeborene van die hele skepping; (16) want in Hom is alle dinge geskape wat in die hemele en op die aarde is, wat sienlik en onsienlik is, trone sowel as heerskappye en owerhede en magte — alle dinge is deur Hom en tot Hom geskape. (17) En Hy is voor alle dinge en in Hom hou alle dinge stand. Kol. 1 : 15 – 17
    Thomas, hier verwys Paulus natuurlik na Jesus. Die rede waarom Paulus met soveel oortuiging kan spreek word oa. in Kol.1:19 – 20, deur Paulus beklemtoon, “Want dit het die Vader behaag dat in Hom die ganse volheid sou woon
    (20) en dat Hy deur Hom (Jesus) alles met Homself (God) sou versoen nadat Hy vrede gemaak het deur die bloed van sy kruis—ek sê deur Hom –die dinge op die aarde sowel as die dinge in die hemele.” Jy is reg niemand het ooit God gesien nie, die eniggebore seun van God die het Hom verklaar. Joh. 1:18.

    Dit is juis omdat dit God se plan was om die mens op voetsool vlak te ontmoet, soos duidelik in die OU TESTAMENT plaasgevind het,
    en God mos geweet die mens kan nie Sy heerlikheid aanskou en bly leef nie en God is onsienlik want His Gees. Daarom dat Hy ’n Beeld, voorhangsel, noem dit wat u wil, tot stand gebring waarin Hy homself kon vergestalt, sodat Hy op ‘n persoonlike vlak met die mens kon kommunikeer, ek meen is dit so moeilik om te verstaan!

    Kol. 2:9, Want in Hom woon al die volheid van die Godheid liggaamlik (10) en julle het die volheid in Hom (Jesus) wat die hoof is oor alle owerhede en mag.
    God sê iewers in Hebreërs “ U is My Seun, vandag het ek U gegenereer…..! Hierdie genereer het gebeur om bg. vers te vervul.
    , 1Tim.2:5
    : Sê “Daar is een middelaar tussen God en die mens, die mens Christus Jesus”. Dit sê nie God die Seun nie, Maar die mens…
    Die terms: God die seun, God die Heilige Gees, die woord, drie-eenheid kan nie in die skrif gevind word nie. Alles mensgemaak!

    Het jy geweet dat die drie-een met die doop van Mat.28:19 deur
    DroomsK. Kerk aanvaar word.Ensoos jy verwerp hulle ook die
    Geloof in een God. Drie persone = drie gode in enige taal.
    God Bless.

  • Andrew on The Incomparable Christ

    Extract from a sermon preached in 1965 Robert Bayer
    Nowhere in the whole wide world, but in Jesus Christ can you find:
    Beauty, that can never be marred!
    Glory, that can never be clouded !
    Happiness, that can never be interrupted!Hope, that can never be disappointed!
    Joy, that can never be diminished!
    Life, that can never die!
    Light, that can never be darkened!
    Love, that can never be fathomed!
    Peace, that can never be understood!
    Purity, that can never be defiled!
    Resources, that can never be exhausted!
    Rest, that can never be disturbed!
    Righteousness, that can never be tarnished!
    Strength, that can never be enfeebled!
    Wisdom, that can never be baffled!
    You won’t find it in Buddha,-you won’t find it in Mohamma-you won’t find it in a false god of silver or gold!
    It only dwells in Him, Jesus!

  • Sharon

    I keep hearing this term “reformed” and I understand what is meant by it. There are Calvinists that love being called Calvinist like that gives them extra credit with God. Then there are Calvinist that don’t like to be called Calvinist so they say they are “reformed” in their theology.

    I have yet to ask someone what exactly needing “reformed” in the Lord’s True Church?
    Did John Calvin’s pulling away from Rome change Rome? No, nothing. Martin Luther and his nailing his opinions to the door at Whittenburg did that change Rome? Did he come out of Rome? No and No. So what was reformed, changed, made new…NOTHING changed the Lord’s True Church because it didn’t need to be changed. There were believers hidden in caves, in forests in the Italian Alps that never bowed the knee to the Whore system. They were persecuted both by Rome and the Calvinistic system.

    I get tired of hearing people say…I’m not a Calvinist, I am a Reformed Baptist. They are one in the same….A Calvinist by any other name is still…a…Calvinist.

    Jean wrote:

    I love and forgive. Why do you post articles that claim I don’t because I am reformed? Do you know me?

  • Dan

    Hi All, There are so many informing articles on here but I couldn’t find one on Jesus Himself. In Isaiah 46 God says: ‘I will prove to you that I’m God by telling you what will happen before it happens…’ Bible prophecy is the proof that God is real and Israel is His clock to the nations. I was wondering if anyone here knows where I can find a sound article on prophecy that proves that Jesus is the Messiah by fulfilling ALL the prophecies about Him. Can anyone help please?

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Dan

    >>There are so many informing articles on here but I couldn’t find one on Je