Caught Up By Jesus Christ Or Caught By A False Christ

39 Responses

  1. Pieter says:

    Hi there (I know this is from left field, but is a letter/response/question to a lot of your articles)
    First off all thank your for this site. As a “baby” Christian, still learning the Word of God, I do find this site very helpful and have read many of your articles. Now before I ask a question just a very brief background to me being reborn by the grace and blood of my savoir and Lord Jesus Christ.
    I grew like most Afrikaans men, up in a conservative Christian household. Like most I did the Sunday school thing learned about Jesus, prayed, read my Bible, but all through my teens I never truly understood Gods message for me. Then came my twenties! Ag the parties, the booze, the so called “good” times. Jesus, God and Religion became distant memories, but in hindsight today I know He was still knocking. Now don’t get me wrong I was never a “bad” person, no drugs, sleeping around or any of those stuff, but an unsaved sinner none the less. Met my lovely wife and we tried to attend church, but again we were of the World. We worried of the World, finances, houses, cars, debt and so forth were the centre of our lives. We never admitted it, but the World and the forces within that world held us hostage. Still Jesus was Knocking…
    A couple of years ago before my twenties changed to a 30 I started searching for God. Yeah I know it sounds awful that one “Searches” for God, but that’s what I did within my ridiculous quest to understand God with a human mind! To make a long story short, I read allot on theology (from almost all the church groups), other religions, everything man has to say about religion. BUT NOT THE WORD OF GOD! In any case this all lead me to becoming something of a borderline atheist, to almost considering catholic religion, to even supporting an emergent theology. Still Jesus was knocking…
    Today I struggle to find that exact moment in time when God took me back to His Word. I cannot recall how it happened; I just remembered I continued to pray to God for the truth.
    Enough about me! As a humble man who would be the first to admit that I do not know everything in God’s Word as yet, but do know a bit about theology, and because I do see you guys at DTW as true brothers and sisters in Christ, I want to ask you something. Humbly if I am wrong in anything I am saying please rebuke me, as Paul did to the great apostle Peter. Its you’re right.
    If we look at the end times, theology clearly distinguish between 3 types of thoughts. Pre-millennialism, A- millennialism and Post-millennialism. For my question I am ignoring A- millennialism, which in essence is just sitting on the fence. I believe Christianity as a religion is basically divided because of the end time prophesies and whether you believe in Pre or Post millennialism. Fundamentalists/conservatives hold to Pre-millennialism where the Word of God shows us about the tribulation to come. There will be no great revival, and in fact Christians will suffer greatly for their religion. Now there is more than enough scripture in the Gospels and in the books of the Apostels to literally support this. On the other hand we have the Post-millennial supporters who believe that the apostasy and tribulation was already completed during the times of the early Christian church. Times of Nero and the mark of the beast being that of Nero ect. We do see scripture like 1 Cor 15:24, Dan2:35, Dan 2:44 which tell us about a great Kingdom of God. Therefore there is justification for a revival (at least in their eyes I presume). I am not sure I am making sense! My question is this is any of these important for our salvation? Does it matter to which one of the end times prophesies we are looking at or believing in? I cannot find anywhere that belief in how the World will end is necessary for salvation? (again if I am wrong please rebuke/correct me). If not what is then so wrong about a revival? (Please note I am not a supporter of revival theology, but do have Gods Great Commission in the back of my mind when asking the question). Where does the Great Commission fall in?
    Sorry I know this is a long letter and do not wish to take any of your time. To be honest I am not 100% sure yet what my standpoint is, although in my heart of hearts I do believe Jesus warned as many times on what is to come. I pray and ask only to learn the truth through the Holy Spirit and the Written Word of God and since you have never given me reason to doubt, I do ask the question.
    God bless you and be with you in your work for Him.

  2. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Hi Pieter

    No none of these are important for our salvation. Jesus does however tell you to constantly watch and pray and look for HIM. And as time draws nearer you will KNOW the time for Jesus’ return is near. Jesus requested that we carry on living live as if you would a normal day. Don’t fret. Jesus says he WILL PROTECT US. And I believe HIM WHOLEHEARTEDLY on that one :) So look at this topic as being more of a puzzle to solve than anything else. I am pre-trib. I believe Jesus is coming back before things get bad. Will we have to go through some persecution? Possible? To what degree? I dunno. This is why I warn the way I do, I don’t want my loved ones left behind to face unimaginable horrors at the hands of a mad man. But if it happens that way for me too, I wont denounce my faith in Jesus just cos I mis-understood…nope I just keep plodding along and relying on HIM.

    Jesus says He is the blessed hope. ‘Blessed hope’ for what if we are all going to go thought the trib and come out second best in the end. I think the story of Enoch toughed my heart greatly, as God just took him away before the great flood. Also remember a lot of the trib is for Israel and God’s chosen that they will realise their mistake and return to Him. This of course does not include the Latter Rain church of today who for some unknown reason thing they are Israel…*coughs*…and *splutters*…

  3. Pieter says:

    Thank you so much for your respons. Please bear with me as I will in future ask alot of questions which might seem silliy…haha.

    Kind regards
    P

  4. Michael Anthony says:

    Pieter,

    I could be facetious and say “don’t worry about it, we will explain it to you on the way up (rapture)”.

    I will echo DTW.

    There is a blues song sung by a blind street singer (Blind Willie Johnson) in the 1920’s. After many years I still cannot get the tune out of my head…
    “…keep your lamp trimmed & burning, see what the Lord has done.
    “…keep your lamp trimmed & burning, For the Lord is almost come.
    Sister don’t get worried, brother don’t get worried. For the work is almost done.
    ..almost over, almost over…”

    Something like that. BTW, K.M Williams does a nice version and so does Darryl Mansfield & Glenn Kaiser. Deborah, that would be in A and C. And both are Calvary Chapel dudes (Yey).

    You could, in an over-simplistic sense, say that there are two types of Christians; those that expectantly await the return of our Lord and Saviour and those that do not. From what I have seen there is hardly a praise and worship song that addresses this, I had to find such songs in the rough so to speak.
    There is a crown promised in the Gospels to those that earnestly expect the coming of our Lord Jesus. Christians should, by their very nature be watching, praying and expecting his soon return.

    Watching – see the political spectrum and false religious kingdoms organise themselves into global organization(s). Watch the church… watch that great turning away from the (simple) truth as warned about in 2 Thess. Watch biblical events unfold, watch the Middle East. One big watch; Israel back in their land *Ezekiel 36,37 in the latter days. This is THE biggest single event in prophecy that adds weight to the fact that we are living in the latter days. Also, according to 2 Peter a massive, escalating denial of Christ’s coming. (Watch people and modern Christian movements say and teach the exact opposite)

    Praying – Pray that you are counted worthy to escape the coming judgement (as per Jesus own words). Pray that you be not deceived, or caught up in silly ideas and doctrines. Pray that the Holy Spirit gives you clear understanding pertaining to bible prophecy. In fact don’t believe me, pray, pray, pray.

    Remember that Israel missed the first coming, yet they had (amongst many others) Daniel’s prophecies declaring to the very day he rode into Jerusalem. Jesus held them accountable for not searching the scriptures and KNOWING the time of his coming – the result? Spiritual Blindness (only in part though). You could apply that today…

    Eschatology is very important, 26% of the bible is prophetic. Your salvation does not depend on it, the completed and sufficient work for us done by Jesus Christ our Lord does. We also believe in the sufficiency of scripture, according to the author of the book (the Holy Spirit) we have sufficient detail.

    *we could have a revival in terms of Christians waking up to the times we are living in. We are seeing massive salvations in Muslim countries etc (don’t worry CNN, NBC, BBC etc won’t cover such things) , but we are seeing apostasy grow in the ‘Christian’ countries and the escalation of counterfeit revivals.

    Watch & Pray.

    Again, watch and keep praying.

  5. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Pieter

    Nah not to worry, a good conversation always becomes a great conversation :) Ok, on this blog, only about 8% of the time haha…actually make that 5%. Entertainment value however is higher.

  6. Michael Anthony says:

    Ok, so another Columbo moment.

    I am currently doing Chuck Missler’s commentary (verse by verse)on Ezekiel. (Talk about a nerd fest). Anyway, God made Ezekiel do some pretty weird stuff to get Israel’s attention (ask me later). Hosea was another. Anyway, each of these actions represented where Israel was spiritually, think of it as a children’s play with profound meaning.

    So, not to miss the detail; my bluesman BLIND Willie here was really physically blind (there were a few blind blues singers that sang amazing Christian songs with amazing lyrics at that time). Which means that I see God doing something here too – dude was physically blind but he could really see. But that’s my opinion of course.

    I have mentioned this on this site before.

  7. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Michael

    It’s too early in the morning to understand what you have just written lol.

  8. Pieter says:

    Thanks guys for the explanation

    Godd bless all of you.

  9. Pieter says:

    Hi Guys!
    One question/statement…. For the past couple of months I have followed a woman named Monica Dennington on YouTube. Now when I first stumbled upon her teaching, I had no problem and it also helped me back to the Word of God. But now…
    See she have these video series/seminars, and her latest one is about the seven Spirits of God, build on what we read in Revelations. But through this “series” she has now denounced the Trinity (because the word “Trinity” does not appear in the Bible) and now in her last video she proclaims the Holy Spirit to be feminine and the Wife of God.
    The problem is she uses Scripture to support het claims, using Proverbs 8 as the creation of the Holy Spirit and also because the Hebrew word for Spirit is “Ruwach” which is in essense feminine. Her video gives more explanations. (She argues that the Spirt of Wisdom = Holy Spirit therefore wisdom as referred to in Proverbs 8 is a woman thus =the Holy Spirit to be feminine)
    First of all is all of this true? Secondly what should a “baby” Christian like me do in instances like these? See she makes solid points from scripture to back the claims. Does one suddenly need to learn Hebrew in order to understand the Word of God? Is there anything one can read about this?
    Sorry to be such a bother about these things, and if you have written anything about Monica Dennington please refer me to it

    Thx
    P

  10. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Pieter

    About 2 years ago I saw her Youtube videos (tic toc ministries) and I thought it was ok. But something about her bothered me. Was it the hair colour? Hmmm I dunno she reminded me of someone who preferred the ‘darker’ side of life. Don’t want to judge her but that is how I saw it. So I just didn’t listen to her again.

    About a year ago I found out she has has many Roman Catholic views. Justification by works and faith is one of them. Now she denies the Trinity – THIS is serious. Her argument that the word trinity is not in the bible so that means Father, Son and Holy Spirit does not exist? Wow.

    Oh double WOW I see she is calling all Calvinists to repentance.

    As for the Holy Spirit being female – a triple WOW. Sounds like she has been reading that book The Shack. No where is the Holy Spirit mentioned as being female. There are no female Angels even, so how can she come to this conclusion. If the Holy Spirit is female that means God is male and female, mother and father and that is blasphemous.

    My word she has lost the plot completely.

    For a ‘baby’ Christian you are sure doing well by noticing the big errors. No you don’t need to know Hebrew, I don’t. BUT YOU DO NEED THE HOLY SPIRIT AS HE IS YOUR INTERPRETER – get yourself a decent study bible. A John MacArthur one is really cool.

  11. Pieter says:

    Dont want to sound like a tape on repeat mode, but again thank you.
    I believe that the Spirit has guided me to the Word and to your site.

  12. Michael Anthony says:

    Pieter,

    Here is one issue

    ‘…she makes solid points from scripture to back the claims’

    This is why basic hermaneutics is so important. You can make a case for anything using scripture out of context. Hebrew is the kind of language that a single word can have multiple meanings, depending on the word in front of it and the word after it (in other words, context). Greek is a more of a scientific language, it is very precise.
    But I suppose you don’t even have to go that far – the scriptures nowhere mention the Holy Spirit as ‘she’, and scripture is consistent with amazing accuracy. If anything is ‘so’ it has to be ‘so’ throughout the whole bible, not hidden here and there and it may mean this or it can also mean that. That is not biblical consistency.

    The best context is the WHOLE counsel of God, not a scripture here and another one there and therefore because this also can mean that we can conclude that x means y. That is biblical sleight of hand coming from this woman.

  13. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    …. she makes solid points from scripture to back the claims

    And that is exactly what these false teachers do, they make the most solid claims to back up their nonsense. One of my rules of thumbs is, when they whip out powerpoint, start drawing diagrams, bring out the meanings of words in Greek or Hebrew to prove a point then I throw my hands in the air and say, ‘that’s it! I am outt here’.

    When people start to have to prove Scripture and things in Scripture to make a point as to what they are trying to teach you then warning bells needs to start going off. I am of course speaking about Orthodox Christian teaching that the ‘minister’ is now trying to debunk. I won’t have a problem if someone drew the measurements of Noah’s ark on a board and tried to work out how many animals could fit inside lol. Not that I would ever do anything like this…erm.

  14. Pieter says:

    Hi Michael

    As an Afrikaans boytjie I firsts had to look up the meaning of “hermaneutics”…lol

    But truly thank you, I agree with what you are saying.

    And Deborah…

    you are so right, was watching the TBN channel a while back (it’s sad but actually laughable to what those guys get up to), and it was about their number 1 subject of prosperity. Same thing take one or two snippets of the Bible where the Lord promises a blessing and wha-la we have a justification to live as we want and chase money…
    Same with Islam, they take Deut 18:18 and bam we are now talking about Mohammad…

    At the end its actually so sad and deceiving…

    God Bless.

  15. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Pieter

    Don’t worry, I had no idea what eschatology meant 5 years ago. Then I heard about hermeneutics and I thought I would never make it as a Christian. Then someone one day mentioned soteriology and in a group of about 10 people said, ‘what on earth does that mean?’ I saw the relief on others faces when he said the theological study of salvation. I laughed and wondered what big word I was going to learn next. I have learnt many big words since haha

    But I love to keep it simple, cos I always think back to the day when I was lost and searching, and found Jesus Christ and His gospel was so simple to understand. The gospel message is uncomplicated, simple, easy to understand, no rituals, no works, just faith and belief in Him, repentance of sin which results in an ever growing, loving, amazing and absolutely beautiful relationship with God through His Son Jesus Christ.

    I now have a blog and warn and try help people with Escapology.

  16. Isidore says:

    For prophecy fans: You will be astounded when you read a recent article entitled “Pretrib Expert John Walvoord Melts Ice.” It greeted my eyeballs on Dec. 29th when I spied it on Joe Ortiz’ excellent END TIMES PASSOVER blog.

  17. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Isidore

    Thanks for this. I have posted it as an article here: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/01/06/the-rapture-an-article-to-knock-your-socks-off/

  18. Amanda says:

    Holy Spirit
    Category: Life
    7307 Strong’s Concordance ruwach
    A feminine noun meaning spirit, wind, breath. The word is used to refer to The Spirit of God or The Word.
    The Spirit of God Is properly referred to as The Holy Spirit.
    The Spirit of The Lord has a part in Creating the universe; imparted life…
    Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters.
    Job 33:4 The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

    The Spirit imparts Wisdom for understanding.
    Isaiah 11:2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him–the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fEar of the LORD–

    Job 28:20-21 Where then does wisdom come from? Where does understanding dwell? it is hidden from the eyes of every living thing, concealed even from the birds of the air.

    2451 Strong’s Concordance chokmah
    A feminine noun meaning skillful, Wisdom, skill, experience, shrewdness.
    Proverbs 8:1 Does not wisdom call out? Does not understanding raise her voice?
    Proverbs 8:11 for wisdom is more precious than rubies, and nothing you desire can compare with her
    Proverbs 4:7 Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Though it cost All you have, get understanding.

    Proverbs 7:4 Say to wisdom, “You are my sister,” and call understanding your kinsman;
    269 Strong’s Concordance achowth
    Irregular feminine of 251; A sister (used very widely [like250], literal & figurative:–(an) other, sister, together.
    A feminine noun,, sister, beside biological , it refers to more intimate female relatives. SS of Solomon uses the word to refer to Bride..
    Song of Solomon 4:9 You have stolen my heart, my sister, my bride; you have stolen my heart with one glance of your eyes, with one jewel of your necklace.

  19. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Amanda (not the Amanda that usually comments on this blog with SOUND teaching)

    By saying that the Holy Spirit is feminine you are saying that Jesus Christ is feminine and so is God. For God the FATHER, Jesus Christ HIS SON and the Holy Spirit are ONE and 3 separate persons. The Holy Spirit descended on Mary and she gave birth to Jesus Christ the SON of God the FATHER. If The Holy Spirit is feminine, then so is God and Jesus Christ.

    The bride is symbolically ‘female’ (because genuine Christians are both men and women), and the marriage to Jesus Christ (is symbolic). If Jesus Christ is feminine then you have a Lesbian marriage. And again if the Holy Spirit is feminine then an abomination took place when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary. Disgusting.

    This whole feminine thing you are referring to is based around the cosmic universe and mother earth and is NEW AGE. I think you need to stop reading The Shack and get back to reading the Bible.

  20. Amanda says:

    Since the emergents have won the revolution and are now mainline, it is quite acceptable in church to refer to the spirit as ‘she’. Phyllis Tickle does and she did in Rob Bell’s church without a squeek from the men. The emerged church is perfect for those who want to get in touch with their feminine side. Since they do not believe the Word of God anyway and therefor cannot preach it, they might as well be girls if they want to.

  21. Pieter says:

    @Amanda (new one as DTW reffered to…)

    Sounds like you have been watching Monica Dennington’s videos… Now I also used to watch her and thought this girl is a great teacher of the word…but when she started with all these feminine Holy Spirit stories in her seminar “7 spirits of God” she lost me forever…thank God… it actually escalated to her claiming the Holy Spirit to be our mother god, the wife of God…

    Deception all over….

  22. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Pieter

    You know it’s only Wednesday and already I have had enough exposure to utter rubbish to last me a life time, or at least till the end of the week lol. I must get around to writing about this woman.

  23. Pieter says:

    you should

    But I shout If ya need help I know a bit about her…

  24. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Pieter

    Oh I thought you would never ask lol. Write me something in Word doc and I will post it as a separate article.

  25. Amanda says:

    You know it’s only Wednesday and already I have had enough exposure to utter rubbish to last me a life time, or at least till the end of the week lol.

    Come on, people! The week is but a puppy. And SAMS has just started!

    Amanda
    The old one.
    Dankie, Pieter.

  26. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Amanda

    This puppy is having serious problems staying awake. Please write us a short post on SAMS. And it’s not BOBS cousin that’s for sure.

  27. Amanda says:

    I added NOT my opinion only wat I studied & is Clearly in the books.. “Not of man but of God”

    2 Timothy 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the Word of Truth.

    John 6:53 Jesus said to them, “I tell you the Truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no Life in you

    This like many other of His teaching went over real good with the “teachers of the law”..
    Shalom

  28. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    Amanda

    Okie dokie then… maybe you should read some more. Cos God is not female. Stay away from The Shack. I told you this already.

  29. Elmarie A says:

    I agree with Deborah, TO STAY CLEAR OF THE SHACK. This book left me very very uneasy, I read it about, the time it was released. The story is so so may i call it SICK!!! As a Christian it was insulting to everyting we stand for.

    Blessings

  30. GrowingandLearning says:

    Jesus says that no one knows the day or the hour. We won’t know when He’ll come. If we take all this pre-trib, post-trib, whatever-trib stuff too seriously we miss the point. We can in many ways predict a round-about time of his return (a seven year treaty? Come guys, where is this actually in the Bible? Sure, it’s in commentaries and books and opinions, but it’s not so black and white in the Bible. I’ve read the verses, they can be read numerous ways.)

    This is a secondary doctrine. Solid eschatology does not have to be complicated or detailed, the basics are: Jesus will come again, we don’t know when, he will put all things right and judge the living and the dead. Those who believe will have eternal life. Outside of that we are speculating and trying our best to understand, but we must make sure we don’t miss the point.

  31. GrowingandLearning says:

    I said above: “We can in many ways predict a round-about time of his return”. I was saying this in the context that if we take all this trib stuff too seriously we can predict his return in some way. This is wrong. No one knows the day or the hour (and don’t say ‘oh we could know the year or the round-about time because Jesus only mentions a day or an hour, I’ve heard someone say that and that is seriously nonsense). Just thought that needed to be cleared up. When we talk of a ‘seven year treaty’ we are in effect saying we have an idea when he will return, because when the seven years or up or when we see people gathered against Israel etc. etc., we can have an idea that he is going to return any time then. I don’t think that’s right.

  32. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    GrowingandLearning

    >> a seven year treaty? Come guys, where is this actually in the Bible? Sure, it’s in commentaries and books and opinions, but it’s not so black and white in the Bible. I’ve read the verses, they can be read numerous ways.)

    Not a 7 year treaty. A 7 year tribulation. with the establishement of a peace treaty where Israel is divided and given to the Palestinians. What part of this massive on going saga did you miss on the news? lol. Half way through the anti-Christ set’s himself up in the temple in Jerusalem and declares himself to be God. this is the 2nd part of the tribulation called the great tribulation and this is the part that you do not want to be in.

    And it’s as clear as daylight in the bible.

    Anyhow GrowingandLearning. I think before you get all wrapped up in this topic, you need to go and find out what contemplative spirituality means. If you follow this teaching preached by 99% pastors and ministries nowadays you will find yourself in a spot of trouble. You commented under the Louie Giglio articles not knowing really what he preaches. So go find out, you have a mass library at your finger tips. Please, I am not joking.

  33. GrowingandLearning says:

    i’m just saying we mustn’t forget the point. Where does it say a seven year tribulation? Rev 13:5 and Dan 7:25, as examples, could be referring to a number of things. There are so many ways all these verses could be interpreted… and by making this our focus we can lose the plot. Preach the gospel and look forward to Jesus’ return, don’t sit and do maths with the book of revelation and look out for the antichrist’s return, or a number of antichrists. If post-trib, pre-trib, whatever trib is your focus you’ll lose the point. That is IMHO.

    I mentioned before that I do know what contemplative spirituality is, and don’t believe Louie Giglio is involved in it – even after your posts. Why are you so sure you know what contemplative spirituality is? Just asking.

  34. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    GrowingAndLearning

    >>Preach the gospel and look forward to Jesus’ return

    I have already said similar in my longer comment here: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/01/06/the-rapture-an-article-to-knock-your-socks-off/#comment-2730

    >> I mentioned before that I do know what contemplative spirituality is, and don’t believe Louie Giglio is involved in it – even after your posts.

    Go do your research, then come back… in fact lets go too the Giglio article(s) and you tell me point by point based on his articles why there is not one ounce of contemplative spirituality being taught by him?

    This way we will tell who knows what contemplative spirituality is and is not. Are you up to it? I’ve already stated my comments in the article, now you need to tell me why what I said is NOT true.

  35. Deborah (Discerning the World) says:

    GrowingAndLearning

    I know I am having probs with my internet connection. But you seem to have disappeared. Are you still up to telling me why what I said under all my Louie Giglio articles is NOT true?

    You are very quick to tell me I am wrong, yet can’t tell me why. Since being offline I have read 2 of his book which provides even more information as to what the believes.

    Have you managed to do any research so far on WHAT contemplative spirituality is? (hint: in this case we are looking at centering prayer).

    Or are you just going to ‘believe’ that he is kosher?

  36. Martin Horan says:

    I know I’m a bit late in the proverbial day getting into the feminine Holy Spirit argument.
    The grammatical terms masculine and feminine are purely that–grammatical terms! They have nothing whatsoever to do with the sex of what’s being referred to.
    Masculine, feminine and neuter have nothing to do with nouns like man, woman, boy, girl, dog cat, cow, bull, &c. In some languages a certain word can be masculine and in another language the same word will be a different gender. Actually, in the same language you can have synomymous nouns the gender of which changes regarding the specific noun.
    The argument of masculine or feminine in the Bible taken from the gender of the noun is absurd.
    The lines of Alexander Pope come to mind:
    A little learning is a dangerous thing;
    Drink deep or taste not of the Perian spring,
    For there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    While drinking largely sobers us again.
    Pope is merely pointing out here that jumping to conclusions without having all the facts it not a very sensible thing to do. It makes us appear foolish.
    To imagine that the gender of a noun in Hebrew or Greek is telling us the gender of God is quite foolish.

  37. Jamie says:

    In Exodus we read the history of Egypt and God’s wrath while the Hebrews ( God’s chosen ) remained in Egypt. I think we have to take all the bible in account to bring balance in truth and purity of the word united with the discernment of the Holy Spirit. God did not allow any of His wrath to come upon the Hebrew people while in the midst He was dealing out wrath to Egypt. You see when the blood is applied in obedience God’s hand protects us in the midst of His wrath to the ungodly.

  38. Jamie says:

    Martin, The gender of God is not a gender. The bible teaches God as being a Spirit. Now Jesus the messiah was a MAN, “masculine”. I’m sure you already know this.

  39. Martin Horan says:

    Thank you, Jamie. I do know that the Bible teaches God as being a spirit and that Jesus was a man. God is not a gender being a spirit, you appear to be saying. However, Jesus and God the Father Himself are identified in male gender terms. I am taking on Debs’ point with Amanda that God is not female or identifed in the Bible as masculine. I had a friend who got into Signs and Wonders who told me that if you dream of the Holy spirit and He appears as feminine. That’s nowhere in the Bible. People who come up with such ideas are going beyond Scripture.

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The following conditions does not mean that the authors of Discerning The World permit only opinions that are in agreement with us. This also does not mean that we fear dissenting opinions or ideas that are contrary to the beliefs that we hold (and/or that of the revealed Scriptures of the Holy Bible).

The following describes the Terms and Conditions applicable to your use of the “Comments” submission service at the Discerning the World website.

BY CLICKING THE “POST COMMENT” BUTTON FOR YOUR COMMENT, YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS AND ABIDE BY ALL OF THE RULES AND POLICIES SET FORTH HEREIN. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, DO NOT SUBMIT YOUR COMMENT TO DISCERNING THE WORLD WEB SITE.

  1. Discerning the World owns and operates the DiscerningtheWorld.com site (the “Site”). Your use of the features on the Site allowing for submission of a “Comment” is subject to the following terms and conditions (the “Terms”). Discerning the World may modify these Terms at any time without notice to you by posting revised Terms on the Site. Your submission of a “Comment” to the Site following the modification of these Terms shall constitute your binding acceptance of and agreement to be bound by those modified Terms.
  2. By submitting a “Comment” you are accepting these Terms through your clicking of the “POST COMMENT” button.
  3. Discerning the World has the right, but not the obligation, to take any of the following actions, in Discerning the World’s sole unfettered discretion, at any time, and for any reason or no reason, without providing any prior notice:
    1. Restrict, suspend or terminate your ability to submit “Comments,” to the Site;
    2. Change, suspend or modify all or any part of the Site or the features thereof;
    3. Refuse or remove any material posted on, submitted to or communicated through the Site by you;
    4. Deactivate or delete any screen names, profiles or other information associated with you; or
    5. Alter, modify, discontinue or remove any comment off the Site.
  4. You agree that, when using or accessing the Site or any of the features thereof, you will not:
    1. Violate any applicable law or regulation;
    2. Interfere with or damage the Site, through hacking or any other means;
    3. Transmit or introduce to the Site or to other users thereof any viruses, cancel bots, Trojan horses, flood pings, denial of service attacks, or any other harmful code or processes;
    4. Transmit or submit harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, deceptive, fraudulent, obscene, indecent, vulgar, lewd, violent, hateful or otherwise objectionable content or material;
    5. Transmit or submit any unsolicited advertising, promotional materials, or spam;
    6. Stalk or harass any user or visitor to the Site; or
    7. Use the content or information available on the Site for any improper purpose.
  5. You retain the Copyright of any “Comment” you submit to Discerning the World. By submitting a “Comment” to Discerning the World, you agree to grant Discerning the World a irrevocable, non-exclusive, royalty-free, perpetual license to use the material or commentary that you have submitted, in any medium and in any manner that Discerning the World may, in its sole unfettered discretion, choose.
  6. By submitting a “Comment” to Discerning the World, you agree to comply with the following rules concerning such submissions:
    1.  You agree not to include in your “Comment”:
      1. Any false, defamatory, libelous, abusive, threatening, racially offensive, sexually explicit, obscene, harmful, vulgar, hateful, illegal, or otherwise objectionable content;
      2. Any content that may be seen as stalking or harassing of any other Site contributors;
      3. Any content that personally attacks an individual. (An example of a personal attack is posting negative comments about an individual in a way meant to demean that person. Note that posting your opinion about someone’s ideas, doctrine or actions is not a personal attack);
      4. Any content that discloses private details concerning any person, for eg., phone numbers that have not been made public, photos that are not in the public domain, residential address that is not public, ID numbers, Social Security numbers, email addresses that are not in the public domain, etc.;
      5. Any content that you know to be false, misleading, or fraudulent;
      6. Any use of profanity;
      7. Any content including advertisements or otherwise focused on the promotion of commercial events or businesses, or any request for or solicitation of money, goods, or services for private gain;
      8. Any content that contains software viruses or any other computer code, files or programs designed to interrupt, destroy or limit the functionality of any computer software or hardware or telecommunications equipment; or
      9. Any content directly or indirectly soliciting responses from minors (defined as anyone under 18 years of age).
  7. FAIR USE NOTICE:
    1. If any part of the “Comment” is not your original work, it is your responsibility to add the name of the third party, name the book with page number or a link (url) to the website where you obtained the information.
    2. Your “Comment” may contain Copyrighted material, the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. You are however allowed to make such material available in your “Comment” in an effort to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc.  This constitutes a ‘fair use’ of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this Site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to:http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.
    3. If you wish to use copyrighted material from a website or any other medium for purposes to add to your “Comment” that go beyond ‘fair use’, you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. (Fair Use means you may quote from copyrighted sources, but you may not publish the whole article, book, etc., in your “Comment”.)
  8. You are solely responsible for the “Comment” you upload, post, transmit or otherwise make available to others using this Web Site. Under no circumstances will Discerning the World be liable in any way for any “Comment” posted on or made available through this Site by you or any third party.
  9. You understand that all “Comments” on this Site are pre-screened or moderated. That means that every “Comment” needs to be approved by Discerning the World before it appears in the “Comments” section.  This is not an automatic process.  Discerning the World does this for SPAM reasons.
  10. Discerning the World has the right (but not the obligation) in their sole unfettered discretion to remove any “Comment” that is posted on or available through the Site. Without limiting the foregoing, Discerning the World has the right to remove any “Comment” that violates these Terms or is otherwise deemed objectionable by Discerning the World in its sole discretion.
  11. You understand that Discerning the World in their sole unfettered discretion is not obligated and can not be forced in any manner, be it legal or otherwise to remove any “Comment” that is posted on or made available through the Site by you.
  12. When submitting a “Comment,” you will be asked to provide your name and your email address. While Discerning the World does not object to your use of a pseudonym instead of your actual name, Discerning the World reserves the right, but not the obligation, to reject, change, disallow, or discontinue at any time any submission name that, in Discerning the World’s sole unfettered discretion, is objectionable or inappropriate for any reason. Discerning the World requires the submission of your email address, but Discerning the World warrants that it will not publish your email address to an outside third party without your consent.
  13. Discerning the World does not sell or rent your personal information to third parties for their marketing purposes. From time to time, Discerning the World may contact you personally via email. Notwithstanding the foregoing, you acknowledge and understand that the “Comments” feature of the Site is designed to permit users to post information and commentary for public review and comment and thus you hereby waive any expectation of privacy you may have concerning any likeness or information provided to the Site by you.
  14. You are solely responsible for your interactions with other users of or visitors to the Site.
    1. Discerning the World shall have the right, but not the obligation, to monitor interactions utilizing the “Comments” facility of the Site, between you and other users of or visitors to the Site. You acknowledge and agree that Discerning the World, or any third party shall not be, and you shall not seek to hold them, responsible for any harm or damage whatsoever arising in connection with your interaction with other users of or visitors to the Site.
    2. Discerning the World does not verify any information posted to or communicated via the “Comments” sections of the Site by users and does not guarantee the proper use of such information by any party who may have access to the information. You acknowledge and agree that Discerning the World does not assume, and shall not have, any responsibility for the content of messages or other communications sent or received by users of the Site.
  15. The Site contains content created by or on behalf of Discerning the World as well as content provided by third parties.
    1. Discerning the World does not control, and makes no representations or warranties about, any third party content, including such content that may be accessible directly on the Site or through links from the Site to third party sites.
    2. You acknowledge that, by viewing the Site or communications transmitted through the Site, you may be exposed to third party content that is false, offensive or otherwise objectionable to you or others, and you agree that under no circumstances shall Discerning the World be liable in any way, under any theory, for any third party content.
    3. You acknowledge and agree that the Site, and the contents thereof, is proprietary to Discerning the World and is protected by copyright. You agree that you will not access or use the Site or any of the content thereof for any reason or purpose other than your personal, non-commercial use.
    4. You agree that you will not systematically retrieve data or other content from the Site by any means, and you will not compile a database or directory of information extracted from the Site.
    5. You agree that you will not reproduce, distribute or make derivative works of the Site or any of the contents thereof without the express consent of Discerning the World.
    6. You hereby agree to indemnify, defend and hold harmless Discerning the World, its affiliates and licensees, and all of their officers, directors, employees, agents and representatives from and against any and all liabilities, losses, claims, damages, and expenses (including attorneys’ fees) in connection with any claim arising out of your use of the Site or violation of any of these Terms.

DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY/LIMITATION OF LIABILITY.

  • YOU EXPRESSLY AGREE THAT USE OF THE SITE IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK. NEITHER DISCERNING THE WORLD, ITS AFFILIATES, NOR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, OR LICENSORS WARRANT THAT THE SITE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED, TIMELY, SECURE OR ERROR FREE.
  • THE SITE IS PROVIDED ON AN “AS IS” BASIS WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO WARRANTIES OF TITLE OR IMLPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
  • THIS DISCLAIMER OF LIABILITY APPLIES TO ANY DAMAGES OR INJURY CAUSED BY ANY FAILURE OF PERFORMANCE, ERROR, OMISSION, INTERRUPTION, DELETION, DEFECT, DELAY, COMMUNICATION LINE FAILURE, THEFT OR DESTRUCTION OR UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO, ALTERATION OF OR USE, WHETHER FOR BREACH OF CONTRACT, TORTIOUS BEHAVIOR, NEGLIGENCE OR UNDER ANY OTHER CAUSE OF ACTION. YOU SPECIFICALLY ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT DISCERNING THE WORLD SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR THE DEFAMATORY, OFFENSIVE OR ILLEGAL CONDUCT OF USERS OF THE SITE OR THIRD PARTIES, AND THAT THE RISK OF INJURY FROM THE FOREGOING RESTS ENTIRELY WITH THE YOU THE COMMENTER.
  • IN NO EVENT WILL DISCERNING THE WORLD, ITS AFFILIATES OR ANY OF THEIR RESPECTIVE EMPLOYEES, AGENTS OR LICENSORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, EVEN IF THEY HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, ARISING FROM, RELATING TO OR CONNECTED WITH THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE SITE OR ANY OTHER MATTER ARISING FROM, RELATING TO OR CONNECTED WITH THE SITE OR THESE TERMS.

16. These Terms constitute the entire agreement between Discerning the World and you with respect to the subject matter hereof, and supersede any previous oral or written agreement between us with respect to such subject matter.

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