A Good Moral Soil

Tom (Discerning the World)

Tom Lessing is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

17 Responses

  1. Andy says:

    I always had a bad feeling about Ravi Zacharias, going waaaaaay back in years. I never could connect with him, there was always something that was a check in my spirit. This explains it clearly. He’s a tare from the enemy, to be propped up as some “authority on spiritual matters”, only to lead people to demonic false gospels that lead to hell like mormonism.

  2. Tse Ming Wai says:

    Ravi Zacharias? I have good impression about this person…

  3. Tse Ming Wai

    Jesus also had a very good impression of Peter and called him Satan when he did not speak according to God’s will.

  4. Tse Ming Wai says:

    It is very frightening to hear such leaders going astray. How many, in actuality, teachers or leaders are there in such list. I know Rick Warren is one of them. What about Alister Mcgrath.

  5. zellie says:

    And this makes Ravi a Mormon or a compromiser? What about all the Muslim audiences he addresses? Does this make him a Muslim or a compromiser? Here a man gets the opportunity to witness to thousands of Mormons : should he preach fire an brimstone and chop them off by the knees in an unloving manner ? I listened to all his sermons at the Mormon tabernacle. Did you? And you choose to quote one statement and put a lousy you-tube commentary from someone you most probably don’t even know and who even disguises their voice!!!

    Weet jy – ek woon nou al 14 jaar in die buiteland en as jy hier eensaam sit dan besef jy wat is afhankelijkheid op God en dat dit gaan om liefde – liefde vir God en liefde vir jou medemens – want sonder liefde is ons niks. En Suid Afrika sukkel so ‘n bietjie met die liefde- afdeling en daarom is dit so ‘n gemors daar.

    Ravi is a humble, God- fearing man. I can look at his works and the fruit that he bears and know this. I have an immense respect for what this man has done to spread the Word between hostile audiences world wide for probably longer than what you were alive. And he does have an accountability structure in place which includes close friends and other fellow christians at RZIM. I think they will correct him if correcting is necessary. And yes, doctrine is important but not everybody has an IQ adequate to do the detailed mathematics. And that is not wrong, it’s just the way God made them. So please keep Ravi out of the equation and focus on the obvious wolves that mislead the sheep. And do it with a humble, God fearing spirit and most of all – with love. Don’t chop off peoples noses and expect them to smell the roses!

  6. Katherine Courtney says:

    Excuse me for seeming ignorant but are you saying that Ravi Z. was promoting an ecumenical movement because as a precursor they said they were not meeting for that reason. I mean, the Mormon speaker said it as an introductory statement that this was not about an ecumenical movement but about the rising hate against the religious freedoms we are all facing in the west. I just watched it last night.

  7. Katherine Courtney

    The LDS Church is losing members at an alarming rate. More and more Mormons are beginning to realize they had been duped into believing anti-biblical doctrines and are leaving the church. The hierarchy of the church are using Ravi Zaccharias as a catalyst to stop the tide of dissenters.

    They may have said that their meeting with Ravi Zacharias was not an ecumnenical gathering but Ravi’s words “And so, what brings us together? As has already been said, yes we have our theological differences,. but I think it’s commendable that we find a common cause in trying to create a good moral soil in this culture and in this time” is ecumenical langauge to its very core. Don’t be deceived.

  8. zellie,

    You speak of love as though it is the only emotion needed to foster relationships. This is what the apostle of love, John, said of those who do not adhere to bibllical doctrine.

    Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. (2 Jn 1:9-11)

    Ravi Zacharias bid the LDS Church God speed when he said “And so, what brings us together? (2 Corinthians 6:14-18). As has already been said, yes we have our theological differences, but I think it’s commendable that we find a common cause in trying to create a good moral soil in this culture and in this time.” That’s not love. It is downright disobedience to God and his Word.

    If you don’t have the IQ to understand sound doctrine you’d better ask God to give it to you as soon as possible, lest you want to be a transgressor who does not abide in the doctrine of Christ. Even a child can understand the doctrine of Jesus Christ. You don’t need the IQ of a rocket scientist.

    When addressing Muslim audiences did he also say ““And so, what brings us together? As has already been said, yes we have our theological differences, but I think it’s commendable that we find a common cause in trying to create a good moral soil in this culture and in this time.”

    Ravi Zacharias is one of the most dangerous ecumenicists on the planet. When he is with Christians, he speaks like a Christian and when he’s with cultists like the Mormon Church he speaks deceiving words to pacify them and the evangelicals.

    Imagine Jesus or Paul or any of the other apostles standing in the midst of Pharisees and Saducees or any other cult of those days and say: “We have our theological differences but let us unite to create a good moral soil in this culture and in this time.” RUBBISH!

    Here is an example of Ravi Zacharias’ ecumenical streak from The Berean Call’s article “In the Name of Jesus” written by Dave Hunt.

    The language of Scripture is so clear that those who withhold the gospel from the Jews are guilty of willful disobedience.

    In addition to Hagee, there are other highly esteemed church leaders guilty of the same, among them apologist Ravi Zacharias. As the 2008 Honorary Chairman of the National Day of Prayer, Ravi composed a generic prayer suitable for anyone. It does not contain the name of Jesus, which was left out, we are told, “so as not to offend the Jewish participants.”

    Ravi Zacahrias in effect said “Sorry Jesus, you are not welcome at our Day of Prayer. You may have said so yourself that salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22) but they do not like you very much. So, for the sake of unity and good brotherliness with our Jewish friends, please vacate your seat immediately and leave our Day of Prayer.” If you ban Jesus Christ from your prayers, you no longer have a Mediator between God and man and it renders your prayers empty, fruitless and idolatrous.

    I recently posted a comment on the Jewish online paper “The Timnes of Israel,” quoting John 4:22. They didn’t even bother to place my comment. Why?

    (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompense unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness? (Romans 11:8-12)

    What did Jesus say?

    “Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.” (Mark 8:38)

    Jesus Christ Himself is ashamed of Ravi Zacharias and shame on you for revering and honoring Ravi the way you do. You are doing exactly what he is doing.

    Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.(2 Jn 1:9-11)

    Who are you going to obey – Jesus Christ or Ravi Zacharias? Hopefully you will make the right choice. Please don’t chop off your own nose and miss out on the beautiful fragrance of Jesus Christ. I can assure you that neither you nor Ravi Zacharias will smell the beautiful fragrance of Jesus Christ when trying to find a good moral soil together with the LDS Church. Forget it? God, who is unspeakably holy, will never allow anything of the kind.

  9. Tse Ming Wai

    How many false teachers? We don’t know. Jesus only said “And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.” (Matthew 24:11)
    (Mat 24:11)

  10. zellie says:

    1. “You speak of love as though it is the only emotion needed to foster relationships” : Is love an emotion? If God is love does that make God an emotion! Love is a commandment from God – you should do it whether you feel like it or not! And yes – if you have love you can foster any relationship.

    2. http://www.godandculture.com/blog/ravi-zacharias-responds-to-ndp-criticism

    3 “If you don’t have the IQ to understand sound doctrine you’d better ask God to give it to you as soon as possible ” I cringe at your intellectual arrogance. Thank God for your mental capacity and pray that he maintains it – it too is a gift from him. When you do have the gift of discernment – (which you most obviously have) …..remember to tread with care on fellow christians and unbelievers, remembering that our greatest commandment is love. How dare you use ” RUBBISH” in capital letters and how dare you imply that I ” revere” Ravi Z. I deeply respect him and the work he does for God and most of all – I can see the character of JESUS in him , but I know that he is a mere man – just as you are a mere, fallible creature. I only ” revere” God. You don’t know me from a bar of soap so don’t make assumptions based on a few words. I find it rather insulting.

    4. I am hardly to ever provoked to post in a forum. I do not find it a satisfying method of dialogue. Too impersonal and open for misconceptions. Therefore I now bid you farewell and will pray for your continued good work here, I rather enjoy the majority of the posts and am glad that amidst all the deception, there are still a few lights shining. God Bless.

  11. Zellie wrote:

    1. “You speak of love as though it is the only emotion needed to foster relationships” : Is love an emotion? If God is love does that make God an emotion! Love is a commandment from God – you should do it whether you feel like it or not! And yes – if you have love you can foster any relationship.

    Love without righteousness (ensconced in God’s doctrines) is NOT love. It is merely an emotion. If emotions (without faith in God’s doctrines) could foster a right relationship with God (without whom no other relationship can be meaningful), then it would not have been necessary for Jesus to die on the cross.

    What kind of blessing do you wish me when you call me arrogant?

    You are the one who first mentioned an IQ to understand the Gospel, not I.

  12. I wrote the following comment on the site you mentioned in your comment.

    I wonder what the consequences would have been if the disciples compromised the Name of Jesus Christ only once in their lives when they were commanded not to do so.

    Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us. Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. (Act 5:28-29.)

    Note carefully, they did not proclaim the Gospel in the Name of the Holy Father. They proclaimed the Gospel in the Name of Jesus Christ. Ravi Zachiarias excuses Himself with these words.

    I began my prayer with “Holy Father.” No other worldview will begin that way. And actually the way I prayed it at the White House itself (it was the only venue I prayed it at) was “In your precious and Holy Name.” And “God’s Holy Name” is revered. And “Holy Father” has only one Name. It is not the Islamic god. It is not the pantheistic god. It is no other reference. It is, I think, people who really want to argue on the minutia and forget the bigger picture. They want to win a battle and lose a war.

    The fact remains that Congress was satisfied when the Name of Jesus Christ was not mentioned in Ravi’s prayer. This proves without a shadow of a doubt that “Holy Father” did not in the very least compromise their position on religious pluralism and allowed them to sail safely through the rough seas of potential threats such as law suits. Ravi Zacharias may try to duck and dive as much as he wants, the fact remains that his “Holy Father” prayer did not offend Congress or any other religious group, especially the Jews. Has he forgotten what Peter wrote?:

    Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 1 Pe 2:7-8)

    Ravi is trying to remove the offense of the cross in certain circumstances which is akin to being ashamed of Jesus Christ (Mark 8:38). Being ashamed of Jesus even ONCE begs shame and repentance.

  13. Fran says:

    Glad to read someone is making sure Ravi is on target. I have lived in India for the last 16 years and have often wondered why Ravi doesn’t do more work in his own land to reach his people for Jesus? Ravi was born and raised in India till his late teens. I do know he has several lending libraries in India but can’t say I see a bulk of work evangelizing or giving massive seminars on the foundations of the faith. I saw him at a big rally in South India many, many years ago and really didn’t find him compelling in speaking to his very own people but I will admit I am very bias against Indians that leave this country, India, for greener pastures in ministry when there is SO MUCH need right here. So many Indians haven’t heard the Gospel for the first time yet they run to countries where there are churches, Christian radio/TV, Bibles available everywhere and loads of great teachers/preachers. These people know the language and culture yet they don’t feel the need to reach Indians, which I will never understand why they don’t feel a burden for their own, and I am bias against that kind of behavior. Call it what you like but that is how I see it. And yes, there are a few exceptions to this view, I do realize that.

    I think that Americans go ga ga over anyone that comes from a different land and speaks in the USA. We are drenched in multiculturalism and to be honest, we rarely use the same yardstick on a foreign preacher that we use with a home-grown native preacher. Just the way we Westerners are, for some odd reason. And the other thing that bugs me is that many Christian Indians in America will loudly complain about the work we Westerners are doing in their land but they refuse to come back to India to do it the way they seem to think it should be done. They loudly criticize our efforts in reaching the lost in their lands and often turn Westerners against us, getting them to criticize what we are doing. I am baffled by it all. I can’t understand it and maybe that is a good thing.

    All I know is that Indians here are very proud of him and often say he is one ministry that India has exported. Many Christian Indians here would like to follow in his footsteps, which means we will have more Christian brain drain in a country that has millions that haven’t heard the name of Jesus once but know Coca Cola intimately.

  14. Karl says:

    Dear Bother Thomas

    Please check this out

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRyUycSmqIE&feature=youtu.be
    Ravi Zacharias on Mormonism Theology

    Thanka

    In Christian Love
    Karl

  15. Karl,

    What is your reason for me having to check out the video you referred me to?

    Zacharias tries very hard to vindicate his statement that we need a good moral soil for truth to prevail and sinners to be saved. That’s not true. Jesus and his disciples were smack bang in the middle of a regime whitch had no good moral soil whatsoever and its leaders were anything but providers for the best moral soil. And yet the Gospel flourished and spread like wild fire. Jesus’ Gospel flourishes where the darkness is its thickest and densest (Matthew 4:16).

    Zacharias suggests that politics can play to role in the advancement of the Gospel. When Jesus commanded us to pray for our leaders and those in authority, He meant that we should pray for their salvation and not their ability to provide a good moral soil. In fact, the clarion to seek unity among all religions is to provide a good moral soil. This is all done in the flesh and as you know the flesh availeth nothing. It means absolutely nothing.

    At any rate, Jesus did not command us to seek common ground on what a moral soil should be. He commanded us to preach the Gospel. What Ravi Zacharias said at the Mormon Tabernacle cannot help Mormons one single bit toward their salvation.

  16. Jon says:

    Thank you for posting this article. I watched some videos of Ravi Zacharias debating atheists and he had great counter arguments. He is regarded by some as one of the top Christian apologists around. What is also very troubling about Ravi Zacharias is that he appeared on Joyce Meyer’s tv show and called her a great teacher. Very disappointing coming from a well known Christian apologist. I’ve searched him on the web and came across this article. Good to know, thanks.

    The youtube link is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6UQNFqUJbQ

  17. Thanks Jon. Much appreciated.

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