Springbok ‘Healed’ by T.B. Joshua Sadly Pass Away
Springbok ‘Healed’ by T.B. Joshua Sadly Pass Away
If only people would just read the Word of God when it comes to the warning signs of spotting false teachers. I just hope that springbok Ruben Kruger saw the truth of the matter before his passing and that he had not fallen any deeper into deceptive doctrines passed off as genuine Christianity. Let these stories be a warning to all who love the truth, to heed God’s warning of entertaining false doctrines that can lead to spiritual destruction if not repented of.
T. B. Joshua is a witchdoctor who uses witchcraft (obviously) to heal people, among other horrendous deceptions. His manner is satanic, he does not at all preach the genuine Gospel, but a poisoned version. His entire setup is based around con-artistry.
[T. B. Joshua] Once asked by one of his disciples if he is a man of God, his answer was: “Brother, I can not answer you this question. It will be self-righteous if I should say I am a man of God. But let my works testify of who I am.”
[All emphasis added to articles below by DTW]
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Blow for Springbok Ruben Kruger
2000-12-17 – News24 – © 24.com
A week that started with great expectations for Ruben Kruger and his wife, Lize, ended in heartache on Sunday when Ruben was told at the airport that his wife was to lose the baby about which they were so excited.
Lize met him at the airport and the two then went to a clinic in Pretoria where she underwent tests. Although she is brave about the loss, her husband was visibly upset when he was told.
He is, however, positive about his healing. “I no longer have to drink my chemo pills”, he said on Sunday. He believes his healing started on Sunday already when he arrived at the synagogue.
After he had said Kruger was healed of a malignant brain tumour, “Prophet” T.B. Joshua also gave him an oil to rub on the place where the tumour was. Kruger said he should undergo further examination in January, but he would still decide about it. “I will take the Lord’s lead.”
When Rapport spoke to Kruger earlier this week in Lagos, he excitedly told about his experience at the synagogue.
He had tackled many people during his rugby days. He also came down hard himself – he could take it like a man. But what happened in Lagos was bigger than him. He cried like a man.
“You cannot describe the feeling to anyone who has not experienced it. It was an unbelievable, or should I say believable, experience.”
Before leaving for Lagos, Kruger told his doctor, Pieter Slabbert, not to be worried because he would return cured. Until the healing service on Wednesday from 06:00 to 0930, Kruger did not know what to expect.
“I heard about people being cured, I watched videos of miracle cures, I believed I would be cured and still there was a big doubt deep within me.”
Kruger and his wife are celebrating their seventh wedding anniversary quietly at home. Lize says after so many days in the heart of Africa, she is going to make boerekos for her husband.
– Rapport
Source: (link no longer available)
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See Youtube video below of springbok Jaco being ‘healed’ by T.B. Joshua. (Read below article FIRST, before you watch the video!)
Triumph and despair
When serious injury threatened to end his rugby career, the tough Afrikaner, Jaco van der Westhuyzen, turned to the only man who could save him: a Nigerian faith healer
by Xan Rice
Sunday 8 February 2004 – © Guardian News and Media Limited
Sure, I believe in miracles. I’ve seen them with my own eyes. From an early age I was very religious. Both my parents were Dutch Reformed Christians. But it was not until 2000 that faith healing and T. B. Joshua, the Nigerian they call ‘the Prophet’, came into my life. I had just broken into the Springbok team when I ruptured my posterior cruciate ligament playing against Western Province one Sunday in August 2000. The doctor took X-rays and said I needed to have an operation that Wednesday. I was really down, because I desperately wanted to go on the end-of-year Bok tour.
Here I must give credit to my wife. Her family are charismatic Christians, which means they stand up in church, clapping and singing. She, or rather her brother, had shown me this video of the Nigerian faith healer T. B. Joshua. I saw all the miracles he performed, such as curing people with HIV, freeing people from their wheelchairs, healing those with cancer. My wife said to me: ‘You’re pretty religious. Your faith is strong. I think you should give it a go.’ I was sceptical at first and I wasn’t too sure about the miracles. I read about them in the Bible but I thought: ‘Can this be true?’ Still, I decided not to have the operation and to take a leap of faith instead.
Our church group landed in Lagos on a Sunday. We drove for about 45 minutes before coming to a very basic church site – 10 people to a wooden bench. It was just phenomenal to see how primitive Christianity can be while at the same time remaining so powerful. At each service, there are between 10,000 and 20,000 people, mainly poor blacks. Their riches are their faith. At five o’clock in the morning, there are 3,000 people queueing outside the church gates to get the best seats.
For the first few days we had discussions with the disciples and talked about religion and its power. Then, on the Saturday, ‘the Prophet’ came out and delivered his message to the congregation, even though there were people in the church, scared of his powers, who wanted to kill him. It was a real eye-opener. But these doubters could not get near him. He said to us: ‘There’s somebody here who wants to kill me.’ If the guy does not come forward, the Prophet will identify him and the person ends up confessing to what he was planning.
Towards the end of the service about 300 of us gathered in what they call the ‘healing line’. The Prophet walked down the line, identifying illnesses. When he came to me, he said I should remove my leg brace. He looked at me and it was like he had x-ray vision, like he could see immediately what was wrong with my knee. Moving his hands around as if he was tugging a rope, he seemed to pull out all the dirt and other stuff that was in my knee. Then he said to me: ‘Stand up and run.’ The brace had been on for weeks and running should have been impossible. Well, I trusted my faith and started to run – and at full speed. There was no pain.
Back home I had another x-ray, and it showed the ligament was fine. The doctor could not believe or explain it. News of what happened started to spread and the wife of Ruben Kruger, the former Bok and Blue Bulls flanker, called me. Ruben had a brain tumour and his wife wanted me to take him to see T. B. Joshua. We went back to Lagos, Ruben’s brain tumour was healed and he has had no more symptoms since then.
All the time, T. B. Joshua stressed that it was not him doing the healing, but the Holy Spirit operating through him. And we did not have to pay for anything, not even food. He even gives people money to buy plane tickets. He did that with me. Another Bulls and Bok player, the young lock Wium Basson, had developed terminal cancer and also went to see the Prophet. But he died soon after coming back to South Africa. You know, initially when I went to see T. B. Joshua it was for a quick fix, to make the Bok tour. Maybe Wium felt the same. I know for certain that he did not know the Lord as well as he should have at that time. If your faith is not right, the Lord will tell T. B. Joshua not to heal you. But Wium did make peace with God in Nigeria and that, for me, was the miracle. In going to see the Prophet, he probably saved himself from going somewhere else when he died. Luckily in South Africa religion is important; we often pray before matches. Most of my team-mates were not too sceptical about the faith healing. A few of the guys did give me some stick, teased me, but, really, I did not mind. I knew truthfully what had happened to me out there.
Back home, and I think here in Britain, too, religion can become too commercialised. Often it’s not something you really believe in: it’s just something that’s there, that you do to make you feel good. I think it would be good for faith to play a bigger role in rugby, where there is a stigma that players are merely hard blokes without feelings.
Was it strange for a white Afrikaner to seek help from a black Nigerian faith healer? I think the older generation, such as my grandparents, would have found it very difficult to fathom. But for me a person is a person and everyone has a soul. Whether you are black, white, brown or yellow we are all the same in that respect. I never thought of T. B. Joshua as a lesser person than me. In fact, I envy him because he has such a deep, meaningful relationship with God.
Now I’d love to go back to Nigeria and get my spiritual batteries recharged. During the weeks we were there you could feel the presence of the Lord the whole time, even as we slept. Whenever I hit a bad patch in rugby or my life, I just think back and remember what that was like. The big thing I’ve learnt is that this life is just a dress rehearsal for what’s to come.
The life facts
Jaco Nicolaas Boshoff van der Westhuyzen was born in Nelspruit on 6 April 1978. A boy wonder, he made his Super 12 debut at fly-half for the Natal Sharks in 1997, at the age of 19, and won an international call-up against New Zealand three years later. He has since worn the Bok jersey eight times and played at full-back against England and the All Blacks in the 2003 World Cup. Last year’s South African Super 12 player of the season joined Leicester Tigers for their 2003-04 campaign.
Source: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,1140742,00.html
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Former Springbok Wium Basson dies of cancer
April 22 2001 – © Independent Online
Former Springbok lock Wium Basson died at his Pretoria home yesterday. He was 25.
Basson, who played for the Blue Bulls, was diagnosed with terminal cancer late last month.
Doctors could not do anything to help him and gave him a few weeks to live.
Basson flew to Lagos, Nigeria, to consult a faith healer, T. B. Joshua, who was reputed to have healed a range of illnesses, and had helped rehabilitate former Springbok flyhalf Jaco van der Westhuizen, who had torn knee ligaments.
Basson undertook the pilgrimage to The Synagogue with 130 other South Africans who had various illnesses. He returned disappointed on Friday. Although he had queued for hours, the faith healer did not see him.
Basson had played 48 games for the Bulls and toured with the Boks to Argentina, France and England in 1998, but his career was ended abruptly by a serious neck injury last season.
Basson was the third Blue Bulls player to have been hit by a life-threatening illness in the past six months.
Bok lock Krynauw Otto’s career was ended in August by bleeding on the brain, while Reuben Kruger is being treated for a brain tumour.
– Own Correspondent
Source:
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Springbok 1995 World Cup hero dies
Jan 28, 2010 | By Sapa
Ruben Kruger, former Springbok, Free State and Blue Bulls flanker, passed away after a protracted battle with brain cancer.
Kruger, a 1995 Rugby World Cup winner, would have turned 40 on March 30. He was diagnosed with a brain tumour soon after his playing career ended in 1999.
Kruger had fought back from a broken leg suffered in a Tri-Nations match in 1996 to earn selection to the 1999 World Cup squad and fought his recurring illness with typical bravery and stoicism.
Nicknamed the “Silent Assassin” by coach Kitch Christie during the 1995 Rugby World Cup, he scored a controversial try in the semi-final played in a deluge against France in Durban but was denied what appeared to be a certain try by referee Ed Morrison in the Ellis Park final.
Considered the kingpin of the side, he was named SA Rugby Player of the Year for 1995.
Kruger, who hailed from Vrede in the Free State and went to Grey College, is survived by his wife Lize and two daughters Zoe and Bella.
Kruger made his debut for the Springboks against Argentina in 1993 and went on to play 36 Test matches for South Africa, scoring seven tries. At provincial level he was a stalwart of both Free State and the Blue Bulls.
Kruger had battled the brain tumour since 2000, where he blacked out during a game and it was diagnosed.
After the initial operation to remove the tumour seemed to be a success, Kruger found a few years later that the tumour had resurfaced, but battled on against it with a strength that was a hallmark of his playing days.
He was in the news again early in 2009, when he had to be airlifted from Bloemfontein after feeling ill while returning with his family from holiday in Herolds Bay. A massive five-hour operation followed, where doctors said they had removed “90 percent” of the tumour in the operation.
The tumour was described “as the size of a man’s fist”.
Sadly for Kruger, the tumour was too sensitively placed to completely remove, and it resurfaced in June 2009 when he blacked out while driving and was involved in a car accident.
This past week Kruger began feeling unwell again and was admitted to hospital, where family and friends waited until the end.
Source: (link no longer available)
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Springbok Ruben Kruger sterf
2010-01-28 – by Amy Johnson – Nuus24 – © 24.com
Kaapstad – Die voormalige Springbok- en Bulls-flank Ruben Kruger (39) het sy jarelange stryd teen kanker verloor.
Kruger is gisteraand oorlede.
Dokters het in 2000 ‘n breingewas by hom diagnoseer en in 2007 en 2009 het hy breinoperasies ondergaan waartydens gewasse verwyder is.
Hy het van 1993 tot 1999 as Springbok-flank uitgedraf en was deel van die seevierende Wêreldbeker-kampioenspan van 1995.
Kruger is ook in 1995 as Saru se speler van die jaar aangewys.
Hy het 36 keer vir die Bokke uitgedraf en sewe drieê gedruk.
Aan die einde van sy rugbyloopbaan het hy ‘n kameraverkoopsman geword en het ‘n Minolta-franchise in Pretoria besit.
Kruger laat sy vrou Lize en twee dogters Zoê (7) en Isabella (4) agter.
‘n Aanhanger op sy Facebook-blad skryf: ” Jammer oor sy afsterwe…ons weet jy is nou op ‘n beter plek sonder lyding en pyn! Dankie vir die voorbeeld wat jy gestel het! Rest in peace”.
– Nuus24
Source: (link no longer available)
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Deborah
Deborah
I truly hope and pray, that This will OPEN eyes. It is heart breaking to read these things but, It must be said and Warnings issued. Deceiving spirits are rife!!!! and people are becoming, blinder every hour. Deceiving spirits everywhere! We can only look up to our Lord Jesus for strength, and not look around in this world.
In our area there is a small church at a prominent high school in the Wilgers(they use the school hall), where the pastor visited T B J about 4 months ago. The pastor brought back some of this “holly water” for the congregation !!
The manifestations of demonic spirits must have been rife! I dont have to say more.
Deborah great post done thank you.
Blessings
ps i want to say so much more but the article speak for itself.
I am not surprised… This is the next thing I have wanted to mention nl. when you deal with with TB Joshua and Kobus van Rensburg and all these “satanic” healers, You might be healed temporary But it always comes at a price !
What you sow in the flesh, you WILL reap in the flesh!
When you put your trust in Satan for healing, then He will let you down because he is a lair !
Jesus did not have a healing ministry. The healings that he did was for a different purpose… I don’t have time now but I will expand and explain this in greater depth tomorrow .
I feel sad because so many people are still putting their trust in the physical and not the Spiritual.
People, we worship Hin in SPIRIT and TRUTH… NOT the Physical and Truth !
Jean
“You might be healed temporary But it always comes at a price !”
Yes one just opens the door for more demonic spirits to enter.
SO MANY people run after prophets, healers, other miracle workers! if only all these MANY people will DISCERN before the time, look at the open facts before hand – many would not fall into the trap of being ‘demonically healed’! (ahhh, I can hear how many has words coming up in their hearts to lash out against me now….)
it is important that readers of this article go back to all the articles written on TBJ on this blog, as to understand the whole subject.
You cannot serve two gods. You will either receive (serve) the one, and reject the other… TBJ bowed before every service (he still does) in his backroom before a picture that says there is no other god than Allah. fullstop.
I was quite ill this past 2 weeks. I spend much time alone at home reading Bible and praying – repentance being a big part of it – Holy Spirit brought much conviction about unconfessed sins of the past – so I kinda like ‘worked’ through my life….
It dawned on me that most people don’t even think about the real fact of life, which is – we are born to die – because of the real desire to live which is like ‘build-in’ in all that live. and yes Jean, it brought me to the same Scripture, what you sow in flesh, you’ll reap in flesh. what you sow in Spirit, you’ll reap in spirit.
so I’ve made the turn (again) in my life, to focus on sowing in the spirit… because only then one knows that that which you’ll be reaping is everlasting and eternal.
Oh, yes, I’m healed now (dr reports) and going full speed into every day and that which the LORD God is guiding me to do in that day. I laid down the human urge to lay down treasures here on earth, and have asked Him to let me hear His voice to lead people back to ‘the real Him’ not the counterfeit Jesus and church-playing.
cecilia
Elmarie
>> The pastor brought back some of this “holly water” for the congregation !!
Ah the holy water that he gets from turning water into ‘The Blood of Jesus’
During the “Blood of Jesus” ritual, TB Joshua blesses the water that pours from 12 taps and drinks from it himself. Thereafter people are healed as they drink the water, and evil spirits flee when the water falls on them. People go mad and push and shove to drink the ‘Blood’ of Jesus.
This is so satanic. No I know someone will come along and say, but the water is not really turned into Blood. It does not matter. What he is doing here is the Mass of the Roman Catholic church – just the TB Joshua version of it (water into wine and then blood, just misses out the wine part…anyhow it does not matter, it’s still utterly satanic).
So instead of communion being symbolic in remembrance of Jesus Christ, the Catholic wine and bread actually become blood and flesh. They transform the ‘sacrificial victim’ into the blood and body of Christ. It’s supposed to be a miracle and called transubutation.
In each mass the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is repeated over and over and over again. They continuously crucify Jesus Christ – Hence he is permanently nailed to the crucifix.
Partaking in this ritual you are actually consuming Christ. It’s horrendous to say the least. Nowadays they just take the wafer as Rome decided to just incorporate the wine and bread into the wafer.
Hey Deborah thanks for the excellent post. I for one can personally testify about the strange power that the prophet generates.
See this i posted last night:
http://foundthetruth.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/rip-ruben-kruger/
Blessings
Deborah
Yes thank you!. You are confirming the dangers !!
It is a bad bad place to be !!!
it actually makes me sick to my stomach to think people are so so very blind not take heed on this. Some will actually just laugh it of.
Thanks Corne
PS, you didn’t reply to my comment under the rapture article… just wondering what you thought.
How could people imagine like this,T.B Joshua heal this ma fine and he was healed, for a very long time. no body say anything after the healing but when he died people are now saying trash to blackmail the man in the synagogue,is really bad .let us appreciate the grace of God in the life of T.B Joshua.he is a great man of God.
cecilia
>>>SO MANY people run after prophets, healers, other miracle workers! if only all these MANY people will DISCERN before the time, look at the open facts before hand – many would not fall into the trap of being ‘demonically healed’! (ahhh, I can hear how many has words coming up in their hearts to lash out against me now….<<
The MANY is what bothers me. They don't know what DISCERNMENT is or mean. When they start to ask questions on teachings about DISCERNMENT they are told some sloppy story that is twisted.
I attended ribbon embroidery class, with a group of Christian ladies 15 or so in class. When I started sharing my testimony with them all went well, BUT when I told them I am buzy learning about DISCERNMENT and Testing things changed.
1John 4 1 and 1Th 5.I .
I also asked them weather they felt comfortable with the TBN and other channels on tv, because I just had a problem with most of the programs a very uneasy feeling. I could immediatly feel a heavy curtain drop. No one was prepared to talk about the subject. I was told that it is a subject for theologians too complicated for us plain Christians and it is not expected of us as plain Cristians to be that well read. The one lady's words where "Oh no Elmarie dont go there". It is so so sad to see people walk into this type of danger because of false teachings.
But then I was very gently led away from this group by the Holy Spirit.
Paso
>>How could people imagine like this,T.B Joshua heal this ma fine and he was healed, for a very long time. no body say anything after the healing but when he died people are now saying trash to blackmail the man in the synagogue,is really bad .let us appreciate the grace of God in the life of T.B Joshua.he is a great man of God.>>
The “healing” was in fact all over the newspaper tabloids. He was not the only man who passed away, Wuim Basson also passed away very shortly after his visit to this synagogue.
Mr Kruger was not healed for a very long time, infact he was in and out of the hospital during his sickness.
Blackmail ? or Big Warning Alarms, about this man TBJ and his synagogue, You decide. This man is satanic full stop.
Do you know the full story about Mr Kruger and others. Paso?
Say no more.
I can only pray for you.
a little history about Wuim Basson who also passed away, very shortly after his visit to the TBJ synagogue at link below.
I was wondering, as I read all the posts agreeing that TB Joshua is a false prophet, where the deceived are with their posts defending him and then…Voila! Paso, you didn’t dissapoint me. It is as if you didn’t read any of the other posts and just went straight into defending a man that is being used by Satan to defile God’s word, not opening your eyes to the truth that is being presented right in front of you – post after post after post… Actually, you know what? It’s not even worth my time discussing this with you, because I can bet you that the next post you’ll put will be Matt 7:1 – Judge not…
Open your eyes and spend some time in the Word – and please just read the truth posted on here , so that you are able to discern good from evil and stop defending those exact men that are spreading heresy – you are helping them confuse other Christians in believing their false gospel and creating false converts that will NOT end up with our Lord Jesus.
that’s the Roman Catholic influence again. the priests (leaders) know. you don’t have to know. just follow them, do what they say… they know what they’re doing… and we all sing along… don’t question the song…
and the loyalty get so strong, that they will kill for their leaders’ sake.
cecilia
This incident happened a long time ago, but it influenced my ministry ever since. J., a young wife and mother, had stomach cancer, and her condition had seriously deteriorated. She vowed that she would get well, because she had faith. There were others, too, who spoke “the word of faith” over her. I said, “God can heal you if He so wills, but you need to say with Christ: ‘Your will be done, not mine.’” She screamed: “GET OUT! GET OUT!” There was nothing to be done but to leave. The scene is vivid in my memory. But the day before she died, she said to her mother: “Please, apologise to Rev. Scarborough on my behalf.” Her mother brought me the message, describing the deathbed scene to me in detail. This is theology that I often encounter, and it can have tragic consequences. God is sovereign. One can’t dictate to God, or tell Him how He should respond to faith or prayers. However, God’s love is sure, irrespective of one’s health. Sometimes, too, God may heal.
THE TRUTH ABOUT MIRACLES
The bible says that he is the same today and forever (Heb. 13 vs 8). His powers and abilities are as such, unchangeable and regular. This same reasoning applies to his abilities to heal, deliver, bless, and do all the things that he has promised to accomplish for mankind. With this in mind, it is very crucial to point out that the process of healing is incomplete if it is considered from the part of Jesus Christ alone. It I clear that on the one hand is Jesus, ever willing to heal, deliver, bless, and on the other hand is the receiver, who is expected to play a part. Simply put, Jesus Christ has a role to play as much as we have a role to play in the accomplishments of the promises that he has promised us. It is not all up to God, just as it is not all up us.
There are cases of people who have laboured for a very long time, searching for miracles and spiritual intervention. It would be in the interest of these classes of people to be fully aware of the fact that the bible strictly instructs that whosoever desires miracles must be willing to accept the fact they also have a part to play. This role is simply assembled in the believing and sustenance of the miracle afterwards. Except a man believes, he would not receive. One has to believe whole-heartedly for healing to occur.
It is also imperative to note that when it comes to the issue of miracles, there is also an aspect that involves the maintenance of the miracle. A person who seeks healing from God should know that first, they have to repent of their sins and then become a new being in Christ. Afterwards, when the healing is perfected, the individual would do well to self by imbibing the teachings of the words of God and its instructions. In the time of Jesus Christ, it was very common to hear him instruct the people who were healed to go and sin no more. Sin is the tonic in which the devil thrives.
In truth, receiving healing is not as difficult as sustaining it. Everybody can receive healing when they believe but not everybody can sustain the healing afterwards.
This is not trying to be conclusive, but an attempt to make people see that God is the ultimate. Sometimes, he decides to act in ways that are not easily by humans. In every situation, God is still saying something. I am very sure that whatever it is, God has decided to make the best decision for Ruben Kruger. It is obvious that he has had the opportunity to know and accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Saviour. I am thus very sure that he would be resting in the bosom of the Lord.
One of the books I have read in the past year is ‘Dances with Devils’ from Jacques Pauw. [The name should be familiar to South Africans]. It covers a whole spectrum of stories from Africa – journalistic stories, some undercover stories, tragedies etc. Chapter 12 is about TB Joshua [the chapter is called ‘Prophet of Doom’], an [actually overt] undercover story on this man’s ministry. You can argue that this is not a Christian perspective but the unscrupulous methods used in this ministry are astounding. Read it.
Michael Anthony
I did read that chapter 12.Interesting to see it from Jaques Pauws perspective, As he admits when asked the question. If he is a believer. His answer is No, on page 220.
Proof that this should Spell clearly Danger!! even to non believers !!
I dont have a problem with Joshua so much because I believe God can heal anyone …Jesus said many will come and do even greater miracles than He did…So if Kruger died and others it might not have been in Gods will for them to live any longer then they did…I saw him (joshua) through the grace of Jesus bring back a baby from the dead and I to this day cannot believe that Satan has any hold or claim to life and death..Only God has that power…
Sorry Debs we have to agree to disagree on this one :))
Yolandi,
Greater works than these is referring to salvation to many, not miracles. Salvation of unregenerate sinners is by far God’s greatest work. How many preachers can claim miracles greater than turning water into wine, walking on water, feeding thousands? It’s not what Jesus was referring to.
The golden rule is never judge anything by experience; satan can imitate any gift, sign or wonder. You make a judgement based on what they teach and their fruits. Yes, only Jesus Christ hold the keys to life and death. Need healing? Let the elders/other true born again Christians pray the prayer of faith, as outlined in the book of James. The gift of healing is for the whole body of Christ and elevates no one single person.
Yolandi
When Jesus said that many would do even greater things than he, we was referring to the disciples and apostles going out and preaching the gospel to places that Jesus would not be able to get too before His time was up. Jesus was not speaking about signs and wondres; this argument is so typical WoF. To go along with this claim means that we can do even greater miracles than Him is shocking – He is the Son of God, we are…..’nothing’.
Did you go to see TB Joshua? How and when did you see him raise a baby from the dead?
My question would be how does TB Joshua and Catholicism get lumped together?
@Deborah:
So instead of communion being symbolic in remembrance of Jesus Christ, the Catholic wine and bread actually become blood and flesh. They transform the ’sacrificial victim’ into the blood and body of Christ. It’s supposed to be a miracle and called transubutation.
– Transubstantiation. And ja is is quite a miracle. Its meaning is quite easily explained in scripture from both old and new testaments and the histories of the church.
In each mass the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is repeated over and over and over again. They continuously crucify Jesus Christ – Hence he is permanently nailed to the crucifix.
– Utter nonsense. That is not a Catholic teaching.
Partaking in this ritual you are actually consuming Christ. It’s horrendous to say the least. Nowadays they just take the wafer as Rome decided to just incorporate the wine and bread into the wafer.
– We take both the wafer/bread and the wine actually. Read John 6. The Jews thought so too.
Pax tecum!
Jonno
Jonno
Start googeling away and find the truth. Here is a little help for you where to get started so long.
JOHN 6
Did Jesus institute the Eucharist in Jn.6 as Roman Catholicism claims?
Some things to consider
The idea of a wafer that becomes Jesus each time it is baked is refuted by none other than Jesus Himself. If we read further in v.57- 58 He states the bread is Himself, His body, not a wafer baked in a bakery that will become Him by words spoken by a priest. We must distinguish the difference between the substance (who He was ) and the symbol He uses to describe Himself by, and the symbol taken afterwards (the communion that was the Passover).
The the same language in John 6 is used when He takes the bread in blessing and says take eat this is my body. It was a symbol of a spiritual meaning that the Jews practiced for 1,500 years. They knew exactly what He meant, the Passover. Kept in the context of the Passover service, we know that throughout the ceremony there is a consistent symbolism used to mean, “This represents that.” The salt water represents the salty tears and the Red Sea. The Charoseth represents the brick mortar. The parsley represents Israel in the springtime of her nationhood. The horseradish represents the bitterness of slavery, etc. The middle Matzah of the three (unleavened bread) represents His body and the third cup in the service represents His blood as it is the cup of redemption. In the context of the Passover, that is all that was intended, the word we find throughout the Passover observance is “remember.” This is a reference to the Passover that they were celebrating for 1,500 years to remember this meal as the deliverance from the bondage of their slavery in Egypt. Now Jesus applies this to Himself in their deliverance from the bondage of sin. Paul later states about the communion 1 Cor.11:24 “and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me” in the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” It no longer was applied to freedom from slavery in Egypt but freedom from sin. We remember this by what He has done by His death that took place only once (for all) on the cross- and we remember by looking forward to His promise of His return. Once He returns we will no longer take communion (the Eucharist).
John 6 refers to receiving Jesus as the Son of God by accepting His teaching about Himself you are feeding on the food for eternal life (see the requirements for being raised up at the last day-verses 39-40, 44, 54).
Read on further here please Jonno : http://www.letusreason.org/RC4.htm and read all listed under the heading of This Directory lists articles on the Roman Catholic Religion. http://www.letusreason.org/RCdir.htm
You have allot to keep you busy for some time now enjoy the reading 🙂
The arguments for your position makes reasonable sense at face value. however there are some things to consider:
1. The context – i.e. a literal vs a literalist interpretation
2. The use of rhetoric and in accordance to the custom of the time (This is not 21stC America)
3. The fulfillment of the Passover in the Last Supper
4. The Early church’s teaching on the matter
5. The fact that the symbolist view of John 6 is only about 500 years old, and originated (with regard the protestant tradition with Luther)
6. That Christ himself does not correct the Jews on their poor understanding of the illustration, while at the same time asking his disciples whether they wished to leave. How can a symbol cause such a stir and climax with such a tense moment?
An interesting question indeed. One which I fear cannot be solved with mere rationalizing, since there are mysteries which surpass the mind such as the Trinity and Incarnation…
What are your thoughts?
I have never heard TB Joshua claiming that he heals people. Jesus is the healer and your belief helps. Surely the guy died who said he was going to leave forever and who knew when he was supposed to die?
Vengii
T B Joshua claims many healings he even claims to have raised people from the dead. The man has been proven a Heretic and deceiver.
Clueless in Nigeria?
The Synagogue Church Of All Nations has About 100,000 members. T.B. Joshua (TB stands for Tenitope Bolegun) the founder is called a prophet and a healer. He is 38 years old, married and has children. He began his synagogue 10 years ago with only a handful of people and he now has the attention of many people because of the powers he exhibits. Q: Why members of The Synagogue greet one another: “Emmanuel”? A: “My God is a universal God, so He knew the mission He has entrusted me with. The members of the synagogue greet one another by saying Immanuel. This saying means that God was with Israel present in the person of Christ in his incarnation, not just some general God who is here today. While this greeting may not have much significance to us for those involved in his ministry it certainly raises some concerns.
http://www.letusreason.org/Poptea8.htm
And here is more proof TBJ LIES by using his video footage as a gimmick. He even has his victims sedated and make people believe he has raised someone from the dead. Now that is just downright demonic if you ask me. This story below just again proves that TBJ is a cheating lair and a deceiver from the pits of hell.
HOW BABA MARULI WAS ‘RAISED’
FROM THE DEAD BY T.B. JOSHUA
Bisola as a voice-over personnel, says:
“When the service was over, Joshua asked to see us and the coordinator, and requested that we should spread the news that Baba had died. Majority of the people, including the Caucasians, believed, and I wondered why. Some of them did ask questions whether the man died afterwards because they had seen him come around. We simply said that the man was dead, we were preparing him for the mortuary and that all of them will see when his remains would be taken with them back to South Africa . Furthermore, we informed them that we were waiting until the next morning when we would call Baba’s relatives to inform them. At the end of the day, some of them believed our story while others took it with a pinch of salt. At about 9.00pm, T.B. Joshua told the camera crew that he had an assignment for us after we had eaten and were rested. In the meantime, we were to set up the cameras in Baba’s room; because what he had been praying for, for years was going to take place that same day. All of us, including Kehinde, Azeez, and Michael junior, complied as usual without question. With projects like this, only his loyalists or people that he believed could not betray him were allowed to participate. At this time, Baba had been fed and was afterwards given a sleeping injection in his condition. This is to ensure that he wouldn’t remember what happened to him.”
“Around 2.00am, T.B. Joshua asked us to commence recording. I was taken aback when he laid flat on the unconscious old man for about 30 minutes as we began filming. He then left. It took Baba another 4 hours before he woke up, but the camera crew had to keep filming to accurately record the time of his awakening for the video merging process later in the studio. While on the man, T.B. Joshua had instructed us to insert cotton wool into Baba’s nostrils, ears, etc. When Baba finally began to come around, muttering in semi-consciousness due to the heavy dosage of sleeping pills administered earlier, people in the room began to act out a scene of rejoicing to complete the deception. Prior to this, several people had been invited to give false testimonies like: ‘Ah, Baba, you were dead yesterday. How did this happen?’, or ‘Praise the Lord! Baba was dead, but something happened in the night when the man of God finished service. He had said that we should not take Baba to the mortuary’. We also got a nurse to give false testimony claiming to be one of the people that performed a post mortem on Baba, and that they had inserted cotton wool into his nostrils because they had no hope of reviving him.
“When we showed the church the edited footage, where T.B. Joshua had laid on the man later that day, followed by the part where the old man revived, many shouted for joy claiming that T,B, Joshua is the Elisha or Elijah of our days. A lot of people were so happy having been deceived into thinking that it was what T.B. Joshua did that brought the old man back to life. They were all invited to come and see the old man even though he still needed some rest. As they came in rejoicing, Baba Maruli was unaware of the general excitement because the medical team had intentionally kept him slightly sedated and in a state of semi-consciousness. This was so that his account of the event would not be inconsistent with ours. This video has become one of the most popular recordings shown to visitors at the Synagogue. Some are impressed that T.B. Joshua raised the dead, many are deceived but those who understand video production business might suspect that this was just a gimmick.”
We read in the Bible :
Matthew 24:23-25 (Amplified Bible)
23If anyone says to you then, Behold, here is the Christ (the Messiah)! or, There He is!–do not believe it.
24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God’s chosen ones).
25 See, I have warned you beforehand.
Hello my friends. I want to give an advise for all of you: We need a real touch with the God creator of heaven and earth. If we find it, our life will change, and we will born again. Only until at that time we will understand that we never criticize on any person who serves God. So, if you do not like how Joshua does, then go you all and preach the gospel as Jesus did!. Do the same works that Jesus made! Preach to the people so they may be save, heal all the people that want it, please.
Thank You and God Bless You.
Mr Jose
What are you speaking about? Oh you are a TB Johsua worshipper…
Dont think you (people propagating this message)are a christian or even know the bible, don’t you remember what Jesus said to his people? Its not in your place to condemn or judge.
If they are satanic like you say, let God judge them. Remember the saying LET THE BAAL FIGHT FOR HIMSELF.
our God is neither blind nor deaf. You are too small to fight Gods battle
emeka
You DO NOT KNOW YOUR BIBLE my friend! Wake up before you stand before God and he asks WHY YOU DID NOT WARN to get your neighbour out of harms way – love your neighbour? REMEMBER?
As Christians We Must Judge Righteously
As Christians we do not judge a person’s life, i.e., sin, because we are all sinners (Matt 7:1)., we judge righteously according to the Word of God. The Bible commands us to judge fellow Christians teachings and their fruit. Those in the church we are to judge according to the Word of God. Those outside of the church we show them the error of their ways, preach the gospel to them and then leave them in God’s hands. We are also commanded to judge/test their teachings/doctrine to make sure it is correct and that it ties up with scripture.
There are many verses in the bible where we are told to JUDGE/TEST:
———–
1 Thessalonians 5:21 (Amplified Bible)
21But test and prove all things [until you can recognize] what is good; [to that] hold fast.
———–
Matthew 7:15-20 (Amplified Bible)
15Beware of false prophets, who come to you dressed as sheep, but inside they are devouring wolves.
16You will fully recognize them by their fruits. Do people pick grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?
17Even so, every healthy (sound) tree bears good fruit [worthy of admiration], but the sickly (decaying, worthless) tree bears bad (worthless) fruit.
18A good (healthy) tree cannot bear bad (worthless) fruit, nor can a bad (diseased) tree bear [excellent fruit [worthy of admiration].
19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire.
20Therefore, you will fully know them by their fruits.
———–
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 (Amplified Bible)
12What [business] of mine is it and what right have I to judge outsiders? Is it not those inside [the church] upon whom you are to pass disciplinary judgment [passing censuring sentence on them as the facts require]?
13God alone sits in judgment on those who are outside. Drive out that wicked one from among you [expel him from your church].
———–
1 Corinthians 14:29 (Amplified Bible)
29 So let two or three prophets speak [those inspired to preach or teach], while the rest pay attention and weigh and discern what is said.
———–
John 7:24 (Amplified Bible)
24Be honest in your judgment and do not decide at a glance (superficially and by appearances); but judge fairly and righteously.
———–
Titus 1:9-16 (Amplified Bible)
9He must hold fast to the sure and trustworthy Word of God as he was taught it, so that he may be able both to give stimulating instruction and encouragement in sound (wholesome) doctrine and to refute and convict those who contradict and oppose it [showing the wayward their error].
10For there are many disorderly and unruly men who are idle (vain, empty) and misleading talkers and self-deceivers and deceivers of others. [This is true] especially of those of the circumcision party [who have come over from Judaism].
11Their mouths must be stopped, for they are mentally distressing and subverting whole families by teaching what they ought not to teach, for the purpose of getting base advantage and disreputable gain.
12One of their [very] number, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, hurtful beasts, idle and lazy gluttons.
13And this account of them is [really] true. Because it is [true], rebuke them sharply [deal sternly, even severely with them], so that they may be sound in the faith and free from error,
14[And may show their soundness by] ceasing to give attention to Jewish myths and fables or to rules [laid down] by [mere] men who reject and turn their backs on the Truth.
15To the pure [in heart and conscience] all things are pure, but to the defiled and corrupt and unbelieving nothing is pure; their very minds and consciences are defiled and polluted.
16They profess to know God [to recognize, perceive, and be acquainted with Him], but deny and disown and renounce Him by what they do; they are detestable and loathsome, unbelieving and disobedient and disloyal and rebellious, and [they are] unfit and worthless for good work (deed or enterprise) of any kind.
———–
1 John 4 (Amplified Bible)
1BELOVED, DO not put faith in every spirit, but prove (test) the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.
Comment by Emeka; meka
28 January, 2011 at 9:02 pm
Dont think you (people propagating this message)are a christian or even know the bible, don’t you remember what Jesus said to his people? Its not in your place to condemn or judge.
Myriads of scriptures taken totally,utterly and ridiculously out of context…I heard these parrots of the devil for many years now…of course you have to know the chaff from the wheat and poison fron good food…this quote is stale and is evil because it lies ,Jesus would rebuke such a statement that would offend those still clinging and feeding their sins…I have been there …I know these parrots that put the naive and gullible in a weak and defenseless position by hearing untruths (scripture out of context).
Anybody who thinks T.B. Joshua is a true man of God needs to pray and read their bible seriously. The fact that one is doing miracles, healings and whatever DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE IS OF GOD the creator of heaven and earth. By the way, that is not judging him. It’s testing him and his works as the bible instructs. Satanists are able to do miracles and healings as well just like what pharaoh and his magicians did in the bible. Read Matt 7:21-23, Jer 23:16-40, @ Thess 2:9-12, 2 Peter 2, Rev 13:12-14. The apostle Paul had an illness and he prayed to God for healing but God told him that His (God’s) grace was sufficient for him (Paul). God’s will takes first place. Remember it’s all about Love and the coming heavenly kingdom. Most pple are running after false prophets like T.B. Joshua cause they want present life conveniences and temporary wealth and fame which Christ is against in Matt 6. T. B. Joshua is not a man of God, believe or leave it. May the God of heaven grant us discerning hearts and minds.
thank you frankie!!!!
I disagree with people who oppose T.B Joshua And Kobus. They all are God’s Sons and minister His Kingdom.If YOu all oppose them Show Your Real Teaching and Power of God Through His Only Word And Grace. Bye
the Word of God could be used against anyone on planet earth, and therefore would be found guilty. I believe the TB Joshua is led by the Spirit, who God Almighty values much higher than His Word.Who are you to judge him through God’s Word, when he is truely led by the Spirit.
God have Mercy.
shaun
During the time of Jesus on earth HE spoke in parables to confirm the prophecies of Isahiah, in hearing they will hear and not understand, seeing, they will see and yet be more confused. This saying was meant to those who think they know more than the ways of GOD (Pharisees ans Saducess- the supposed custodians of the law). Jesus HIMSELF was accused of using powers from Beelzebub the chief of demons. and Jesus also encouraged us to take heart, that if HE was accused how much more is HIS disciples. Did not not write to argue but for those who have made ridiculous comments concerning the MAN OF GOD Prophet TBJ, to read their bibles properly and understand the JESUS said this signs shall follow them that belief, in MY name they will cast out demons, heal the sick, even raise the dead.
satan cannot cast out satan, because Jesus said a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.
Francis
There is nothing more sad than someone that does not know the bible. You quote scripture out of context. And of COURSE one demon can replace another, and when he replaces himself he replaces himself with something BIGGER and many more!
[deleted by DTW – TB Joshua is a false prophet – see here for all proof TB Joshua – False Miracle Man and T.B. Joshua – The Deceiver and Kobus van Rensburg – Self Anointed Prophet and TB Joshua’s Evil Doings Finally Exposed!]
[deleted – TB JOSHUA ADVERT]
[deleted – TB JOSHUA ADVERT]
[deleted and blacklisted – TB JOSHUA ADVERT]
[deleted – You are very young and I think you should grow up]
Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men except against the spirit,so don’t blaspheme against the Holy Spirit that works through T.B. Joshua.
[deleted – Elizabeth, I am sorry to say but you are deceived]
I just want to share with you that I and my husband have distanced ourselves with a couple who often shared with us stories of love they have for TB Joshua as he (the hubby of the couple) had personally see the miracles happen. Finally after listening to these stories I asked him what he would have sad about the miracles that were done in Pharaohs palace when Moses was present. I am sick and tired of blinded Christians and quiet frankly they deserve whats coming to them. I am sick of Christians placing men and their demi gods on pedestals and yes I scream out in my sprit and say you who follow such men are deceived and have no right to call yourselves Christians. If I seem to operate in the flesh by what I say or said forgive me but truly I am fed up with stupid people. Thank you.
I have just read some of the feedback on your website. I find it some what amazing that the bible says these signs will follow those that believe…in my name they will lay hands in the sick and they will be healed. I have visited TB Joshua on four occasions and seen the power of God healing people. I have also visited Kobus Van Rensburg what an amazing preacher. It appears to me when people like them, believe the word and the manifestations of healing happen other believe this is of the devil. There appear to be to many confused Christians, What does the Bible say about healings? its all there. Why not take the time to visit TB Joshua and see for yourself there are no signs saying allah but only sound preaching on the word (Jesus) TB Joshua says “I am not the healer the healers name is Jesus Christ” Because someone was not healed is that TB Joshua’s fault?. Why look to man?
New Zealand
Shane wrote:
Mark 16:18 says “they shall take up serpents” as well. How’s about you going to a zoo and stay in a lethal serpent’s den for about two months. Remember you must sleep with it in your lap. And then, when you’ve finished, please let us know what a wonderful experience you had (that’s if you are still alive).
If you think Jesus Christ came to the earth just to heal people, then you’re worshiping the wrong Jesus. The prophet, John the Baptist, of whom Jesus said “Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist,” never performed a single miracle in his entire life. TB Joshua is a false prophet.
There is only one remedy for your itching ears, my friend – the truth. But I don’t think you will want to apply it to your life. So just keep on going to old TB and get yourself deeper and deeper into trouble.
Hello every body..
I’m mrs Roslyn Gaffane from Pretoria south Africa i have being on sick bed for 2 years now.i have being in many hospitals in this country but no doctor could cure my illness(CANCER) until one day i was watching Emmanuel TV (synagogue church of all nations) i saw how the man of God help many people i search for their email i contact them and explain all my problem them pray for me send me their new anointing water as i apply the anointing water that is the end of the sickness.. i’m the most happiest woman on earth now.. thank you so much Prophet T B Joshua.. in case any body have problems don’t hesitate to contact Prophet T B Joshua (synagoguechurchofallnations50@gmail.com)…..
mrs Roslyn Gaffane,
The most important thing to know is whether you will go to heaven when you die. Are you saved? If so, how were you saved? Do you mind telling us how you were saved?
mrs Roslyn Gaffane wrote:
mrs Roslyn Gaffane,
If you had cancer you have an opportunity to share with those one this blog any doctor/s in SA that tried to treat you. Give this blog their name/s (or the name of the hospital) and when you saw them. In good faith we will contact them to hear what type of cancer you had and at what stage it was. Then you would have been back to them to verify that your cancer has indeed been cured (taken away)? – we would like the follow up reports from the doctors. You cannot hide behind your “privacy” when you post on a blog about a healing in your own body.
You have to realize that we have no idea if you were genuinely healed. Anybody can type “that is the end of the sickness”. You expect people to actually believe a few words typed on a computer. I for one am very skeptical of your testimony which is very weak and does not impress without proof. Sorry to call you out on this – but you started to share with us, and you owe us at least a more convincing story than what you have given us.
Or are you like Angus Buchan who says: “You have to have a testimony – get one – because nobody can challenge you as “THEY WERE NOT THERE”?
Also – please answer Thomas Lessing’s questions of 5 September 2014 first – as it is very important!
You have a nice name, but even that we do not know whether it is the truth. This site functions to spread the truth and not the opposite.
Proverbs 6:16-19 (NIV)
16 There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
This blog is a community of mostly genuine saved Christians who have a love for those that are lost in their unregenerate state (unsaved) and we also like to shine the light on false teachers and the deceived people that get caught up in their “lying wonders”. We would like to believe you, but that doesn’t mean we do not think – and examine – what is posted for all to see. It is called “Testing the spirits”
2 Thessalonians 2:9 (KJV)
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders
Hope you understand. I would have deleted your “advert for the prophet” that you speak of, but maybe this discussion was needed.
Joshua used pimps before to promote his demonic doctrines.
John Andrews UK/Ireland wrote:
How sad that you feel you have to take this position in “outing” someone. I, too have no idea if this woman is real or not, if her testimony is or not, and I understand if it is to be posted, it needs to be authenticated. But the tone, the attack you used… there was no love there. And to “seal” t with an apology of having to do it? I have no words. I pray she is telling the truth! I do not for one moment believe this “prophet” is real. I have watched many videos and “alarms” go off, but that does not give right to approach someone the way done. Love covers a multitude of sin…. even hers if this is not real.
Fe,
Would you rather have false apostles and prophets deceive unsuspecting people and lead them to hell? – which I assume you may think is real love. Or would you prefer to warn them from Scripture (which John Andrews UK/Ireland has done) and save them from hell?
By the way, the context of the verse you quoted is the following:
Please quote verses in their proper context. The verse does not say that unconcerned or random love covers a multitude of sins. It says that when you convert (turn) a sinner from his errors, then and then alone do you truly love them and do you cover a multitude of sins.
John Andrews UK/Ireland simply quoted from Proverbs 6:16-19 (NIV). So, are you going to tell Solomon when you see him – “there was no love there”?
Thomas Lessing (Watch and Pray / Waak en Bid) wrote:
Jean wrote:
John 10:10 tells us that satan (the enemy) comes to kill, steal and destroy. If you don’t classify sickness and disease under this category, I find it difficult to think what you would.
The Lord is The Healer. Christianity is founded on pagan doctrines like the trinity etc. which were not the Words of God that Jesus referred the spiritual leaders of his day to refer to, in order to know who he was. The paganism of Rome in the roots of christianity makes it a false system. Yes, I have been used to heal others – in all events in my own relationship and communication with The Lord – as He directed me. I have never been healed by any person praying or laying hands on me in a church. I have on the other hand seen demonic spirits on “great ministers.”
I give T.B. Joshua a wide margin in judging his work because I personally know that satan hates deliverance ministry. Do I believe there is deception in deliverance ministry – yes, I do. All the Holy Gifts and manifestations are twisted in reflection in the unHoly…
liz48 wrote
The Trinity (God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit) is a biblical doctrine no one can deny. However, your denial of the Trinity is a sure sign that you are not saved. Repent and believe the Gospel.
liz48
My goodness, tell me honestly what exactly do you believe if you insist that Christianity is actually pagan? Roman Catholicism is pagan, but genuine Christianity, being genuinely born again is NOT pagan. And who is this LORD you refer of when you say ‘The Lord is The Healer’?
You used to heal people you say, my arn’t you just special? And which Lord are you having a relationship with? You don’t mention Jesus Christ’s name, so The Lord can be a NEW AGE version of Jesus. You deny Jesus Christ by denying the trinity, the trinity is just a word! God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are 3 persons in One and this is very real.
>> I personally know that satan hates deliverance ministry.
Satan does not hate deliverance ministries, he loves them. He loves them because he is behind the false teaching fooling everyone that he can deliver them from demons; what is actually happening is the demon inside the person puts on the biggest act, even acts like it’s left the person, while the false faith healer adds more demonic forces to the unsuspecting person. The worst thing that can happen is that the person believes they have been delivered, gets totally caught up in the false doctrine of the faith healer (that’s another demon making sure you steer off course) and the person in the end NEVER hears the truth because they refuse to hear it. They die in the end from the same illness they went to the faith healer for deliverance.
Tell me, the people you ‘healed’ are they still alive? Be honest now…
While you are at it, are you a William Branham follower?
Liz48: You have a deceiving spirit that unfortunately is trying to confuse others that you are of the “way of truth”. You are confusing yourself to be a true Christian when you are so deluded that “you speak with a forked tongue”. Clearly you have no logical train of thought that can be discerned, but your allegiance is to a spirit that has deceived you, even Satan. Do not be surprised that that same spirit in you is squirming under the spotlight that you have attracted on yourself. You cannot discern the truth.
You cannot quote Scripture in context and try to choreograph falsehood as truth, but your mind is not able to say even what you are trying to portray. You are not able to post correctly and remove blockquotes between two posts and have them read as one that you respond to. Martin Horan and John Andrews posts have been portrayed as one. They both speak the way of truth and your arguments against them is like scrambled eggs – so is your doctrine and you speak in riddles that you, even yourself, cannot logically present as argument. Even Satan knows the Scripture, and from the beginning he twists the truth.
Tozer says: “Christless Christianity sounds contradictory but it exists as a real phenomenon in our day. Much that is being done in Christ’s name is false to Christ in that it is conceived by the flesh, incorporates fleshly methods, and seeks fleshly ends. Christ is mentioned from time to time in the same way and for the same reason that a self-seeking politician mentions Lincoln and the flag, to provide a sacred front for carnal activities and to deceive the simplehearted listeners. This giveaway is that Christ is not central: He is not all and in all.
Again, there are psychic experiences that thrill the seeker and lead him to believe that he has indeed met the Lord and been carried to the third heaven; but the true nature of the phenomenon is discovered later when the face of Christ begins to fade from the victim’s consciousness and he comes to depend more and more upon emotional jags as a proof of his spirituality.
If on the other hand the new experience tends to make Christ indispensable, if it takes our interest off our feeling and places it in Christ, we are on the right track. Whatever makes Christ dear to us is pretty sure to be from God”
You place your experiences and false gibberish and signs that are imagined or “manufactured by Satan. Those who preach Christ, and Him crucified are in another camp and “We cannot help you and surely you cannot help us with your “scrambled egg theology”.
But then you have not a clue what we are saying to you, and we are not “simplehearted” and our minds are sober. You are “drunk with a wrong spirit” and deluded. Are we harsh and unloving – no we just do not accept anything that would raise itself above Christ.
2 Corinthians 10:1-5 (KJV)
1 Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you:
2 But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
You “war in the flesh”, and are deceived to do so by a counterfeit spirit that is not of God.
Blessings
ps i want to say so much more but the article speak for itself.
Thank you Alexia