Rob Bell, Shane Hipps, Peter Rollins teaching Arts and Crafts?

rob bellShane HippsPeter RollinsZondervan Poets, Prophets and Preachers conference

Rob Bell, Shane Hipps, Peter Rollins teaching Arts and Crafts?  No, Never, Cant be!

Agenda of Poets, Prophets and Preachers conference:    Rob Bell   [Emphasis added below]

Sunday July 5

Rob Bell – The Original Guerilla Theatre:    throwing ourselves into this ancient, sacred art form with the absurd, naive, antiquated belief that the world needs inspiring, provocative, comforting, dangerous, healing, great sermons now more than ever

[DTW note:  What Rob Bell REALLY means here.   Ancient, sacred art = paganism, occult.  By art they actually mean the craft or ‘art of the craft’.  In short it means this:  The experience and feeling you can attain by following ancient sacred knowledge by practicing certain disciplines.

Monday July 6

Rob Bell – The Story We’re Telling:    sin, salvation, business, art, justice and the importance of beginning in the beginning

[DTW note:  they are saying that you have got to go back to the beginning, go back to where ancient knowledge originated from, where sacred arts originated from in order to move forward. How far do we have to go back? To the very beginning, of course. We, each individual person, needs to eat from the tree of life in order to gain knowledge.

Genesis 3:4-5   4 The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!   5 “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”]

Peter Rollins – Returning to the New – An Introduction to Transformance Art:   what do flash mobs, performance artists, and pirates have to do with Christianity? exploring how the church can act as an aroma of the coming kingdom ….

[DTW note:  The Aroma, Peter is talking about is the fragrance of the coming Christ (kingdom).  What he said is purely Buddhism/Eastern religious terminology for this would be the Fragrance of the Lotus (third eye/6th charka).  Lastly flash mobs, performance artists and pirates have absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. You however Peter Rollins, are more than welcome to act like a clown in your emergent circus.]

Shane Hipps – How Technology Shapes the Sermon:   the art of preaching evolves with every new technological innovation in a culture. do you know what is being done and undone by our technologies? 

[DTW note:  Shane believes that the message of Christianity has been evolving over time.  To the point it has now changed and no longer applies to Christians lives.]

Rob Bell – The Fig Tree and the Failure of Language:   moment, movement, mystery, and the science of homiletical architecture (alternate title: why some sermons work and others don’t)

[DTW note:  As per Rob, preaching will only work in this New Age of ours, if you turn the stories of the Bible into mystery, imagination,  magic, etc]

Tuesday July 7

Rob Bell – Fumbling Around with Your Radar:   tools, questions, approaches, and everyday 5 minute disciplines that have helped me understand where sermons come from

[DTW note:  The disciplines Rob is speaking about are things like:  meditation, contemplative prayer, centering, silence, circles, mantras, posture, yoga, etc, etc, etc]

Peter Rollins – For Those With Ears to Hear:  Parables and the Lost Art of Provocation:   an exploration of that theological dis-course that holds the power to send us hurtling off course and onto a new one  

[DTW note:  Peter’s attempt at a play on words here, what he means is that:  theological reasoning (questioning what the Bible has to say) holds the power to put us onto a NEW path]

Shane Hipps – You Are the Medium:   an exploration of the human being as God’s ultimate medium for his message. if the medium is the message, and you as a person are the medium, then what does that say about the message? 

[DTW note:  Shane is saying that we don’t need the Bible anymore, because we as humans hold the message of God within us.  Human beings are now the vessels, that carry the message.  Just something interesting to note:  A Medium (Channeller) in Spirit ism is also someone who has ‘something or someone’ speaking through them.]

Rob Bell – The One Thing I’ve Never Heard Someone Talk About That Has Changed Everything for Me

[DTW note:  Rob, would you like to talk about it?  Just get it off your chest, don’t write in circles anymore, just come clean, say what you mean!]

———-

Things said at PPP on Monday, taken from here:  Nuvuslumen.com

How image culture is shaping Christianity….In the image age we move from churches that look like traditional pew based…to more experiential, relational, and communal candle-circle situations.

[DTW note:  PPP is saying that the the Word of God has become an image, picture or imagination instead.  Because it’s no longer the truth anymore, and the truth is now inside each human being.  When you experience it, this new truth that is, through the human senses/faculties (hearing, sight, smell, touch, taste) you will feel the difference.  You will be able to relate what you have been taught and heard to what you can feel. 

It’s like experiencing a labyrinth, you will go around in circles; where the end is the beginning and the beginning is the end.  This makes you feel a bit bewildered and makes you think, ‘hang on, what’s going on here?’  So you go back, you retrace your steps and you find yourself at the same place you started at.  They told you this is would happen when you walk a labyrinth, but you needed to experience it for yourself to understand thereby acquiring ancient knowledge.

“Image based culture is to thank for Jesus becoming primary again…this is what is happening. We become what we behold.”

[DTW note:   The Word of God which is Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ which is the Word of God,  has now been shoved to the back and replaced with “Jesus the Image” or “Jesus of your imagination” as far as all those at PPP are concerned.  The Image Jesus has now become the primary focus. Because each person has the truth inside them, they become what they imagine, they can become like like Christ – a god.]

“…Our thinking patterns actually mirror the things we use to think with…”

[DTW:  PPP means this; once we have moved into the ‘new,’ our thinking actually goes back to the ‘old’, the way we used to think – like pagans where we worshipped creation and ourselves as part of creation]

“…Christianity is fundamentally a Communication Event. A God revealing God’s Self to the world. He used a variety of mediums to communicate that event: fire, scrolls, people, Jesus…

[DTW note:  NO!  God only used ONE way:  The Word of God.  The Word of God is Jesus Christ.  Jesus Christ is the Word of God.  The Words that God spoke in the Old Testament was Jesus Christ.  The Words that were spoken in the New Testament was Jesus Christ.  The Word that was written into the book called the bible after Jesus Christ the Son of God rose from the dead is still the Word which is Jesus Christ.  The Holy Spirit speaks through the Word of God and nothing else.  You CAN NOT remove the Word from Jesus Christ the Son of God and you CAN NOT remove Jesus Christ the Son of God from the Word.   If you remove on or the other you have nothing, absolutely nothing.

I do however wonder about this statement in more ways than one;  “He used a variety of mediums to communicate that event:  fire, scrolls, people, Jesus”  If we are to go back to go forward does that mean that we go back wards from Jesus, to people, to scrolls and then to fire”? 

So let’s go back wards from:

  • Jesus Christ (Word of God)
  • People (Speak new words, supposedly inspired by ‘god’)
  • Scrolls (New message is written down as being the ‘gospel’)
  • And it all ends in Fire

Hmmm….well…..um….*speechless*]

“…the METHODS always change but the MESSAGE stays the same. Translation of Greek/Hebrew into English is a new Method, but the Message hasn’t changed. Bedrock foundation of which we navigate the changes of culture and be faithful to the message God has been given throughout history.

[DTW note:  PP says that the methods (the mediums of communication) changes but the message stays the same.  Again we are to remove the Word of God because it’s not needed anymore; we have other methods of communication.]  Which is a load of rubbish.

“…what McLuhan taught us is that the MEDIUM IS THE MESSAGE. The way you say something matters as much or more than WHAT you say.”

[DTW note:  You see the Bible convicts people of sin, this is why the Bible needs to be removed by ‘PPP and Friends’ and replaced with people’s loving words instead, where there is no conviction of sin and no need to repent of sin, because there is no such thing as sin.  The Bible will soon be legally decaired hate speech. ]

“…Last supper: 12 people meet over wine in upper room and invite a guest to share what they believe and why…then it is their last supper. Omega course…12 week course in how to exit Christianity (in response to Alpha course) Lots of people wanting to exit…its about exiting toxic religion and getting to a place to ask any questions.”

[DTW note:  well, that’s pretty self explanatory.]

“A sermon is about helping people see this new creation with their own eyes.”

[DTW note:  the message Satan is tryng to get across here is this;  the idea is that you need to help people realise they have the message within them.  Help them realise they have ‘Christ’ within them.  The goal is for them to see themselves as a new creation through God’s eyes or their own eyes (third eye located in the forehead/6th charka).

“The whole world is our rhetorical toolbox, because its all God’s”

[DTW note:  This is Panentheism] 

Some prefer the pantheistic belief whereas other prefer to believe in panentheism,  Here are the definitions.

  • Panentheism:  All (pan) is in God, yet God is transcendent over everything. (Notice the difference between panentheism and pantheism). Some would assume that as everything in the universe (positioned in God) evolves, this unbiblical God would also evolve and grow in knowledge and complexity.

Pantheism:  Everything is God and God is all. Since God is everything and everything is God, everything is sacred and interconnected.

“Preaching is a Transformational Art where you try to convince the social self the inner self.”

[DTW note:  As per PPP, ‘preaching’ is now called Transformational Art (lol).  Basically what they are saying  is there is only one way to preach in this new age of ours and that is to get people to realise they are Christ.  You need to convince the person on the outside to recognise the god on the inside]

Just one little other thing I want to add. 

Maybe Zondervan a division of Harper Collins should start by going backward, to move forward by asking Harper Collins to remove the Satanic Bible from their publications list:   http://www.harpercollins.com/book/index.aspx?isbn=9780380015399

And if need be Harper Collins can go back to their subsidiary company News Corporation and ask them if they can move forward by going back to the storeroom and throw away all the Satanic Bibles they printed recently, even the ones that go way back when.  

Once they do this we can move forward from there.  But somehow I don’t think we will see any movement at all.

Now that is what they call ‘Speaking in Circles’  it’s an art form that dates way back when…and is still used today

Please share:

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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Jerry

Wow. That’s a lot of…uh…information. Could you give us the Reader’s Digest version? thanks.

jerry

Discerning The World

Jerry

Nah, but I can give you a Bible?

Rick Frueh

Peter Rollins speaks in philosophical code speak and speaks precious little of redemption and atonement. He was asked what would he tell someone who asked him how he could know God, and he said he would tell them to go and serve the poor and see if he could find God there.

There lectures are very avante-guard and a mix of circular philosophy and interesting parabolic ideas but are void of the redemptive work of Christ and the necessity for the atonement for sin. The deception is in full force and Christianity has been redefined as redemption through humanitarian acts and not through the cross alone.

It is alluring and it soothes the conscience, but in the end, it is a way that seems right but whose path is spiritual death amidst laudable human benevolence.

Eugene Roberts

I don’t know if you know this already but Ken Silva’s youngest brother tragically took his own life. Please lift Ken, his family and his two nephews in prayer and keep them in your prayers during this time.

Amanda

There you go again.

Discerning The World

Eugene

I am sure Ken would appreciate Iggy’s prayers as well. Oh wait, that wont happen, Iggy has made a point of ripping Ken Silva to shreds on this Online Discernamentalist blog too. You know, the place where you comment too.

Eugene Roberts

Amanda, I’m sure Ken would appreciate your prayers as well.

AriseMyLove

I don’t know who Ken Silva is but I do know that it is complete witchcraft to make Christ or Christianity into “performance art”… [Edited by DTW: just adding a note here that Ken Silva from apprisingministries has nothing do with with any of this, it was Rob Bell’s buddie Peter Rollins who compared performance art to Christianity. The only reason Ken Silva landed in the comments section is because ‘Iggy ‘I love to hate you’ Itodyaso’ has been also giving Ken a hard time on his Discernamentalist Mafia blog too.]

When is preaching the Word a “performance” or “artifice”?

Aristotle taught that art necessarily imitates nature but I have yet to meet ONE modern Christian, oh maybe T Bone Burnett if he still believes — that is a truly gifted artist. And TBone led Dylan to the Lord back in the day, so Dylan qualifies for a hot minute of a couple of born again albums.

Other than that, I’m sticking with John Donne.

Who are these freaks?

Cecil Andrews

Pete Rollins hails from my neck of the woods over here in Northern Ireland and from personal encounters I wrote about him and his ’emerging’ IKON grouping in an article here:
[Edited: Cecil, I’ve posted your article as a post an replaced your link with mine, which will then lead back to you anyhow :)]

I hope it may be of help to those not familiar with Mr Rollins and his ‘ministry’

In Christ

Cecil Andrews
‘Take Heed’ Ministries

Amanda

Eugene Roberts has warned against discernment ministries like those of Ken Silva and Ingrid Schlueter as they divide the ‘body of Christ’. He has to bless them, though, because the LAW of LOVE binds him.

Will there be a warning to the ‘body of Christ’ about the statements made by Shane Hipps at the Poets Prophets Preachers conference hosted by Rob Bell, the hero of South Africa’s Prof. Stephan Joubert? Prof. Joubert assured the congregation at Kruinkerk that, even though Rob Bell looks strange, when he opens his mouth, it is the Gospel.

Some of the statements made by Shane Hipps:

) Practices of Energy

First understand Physical is the conductor of Energetic body. Like copper conducts electricity. How posturing body kinks the hose…and hinders God’s divine energy from conducting.

Can do exercises, yoga, ti-chi to retrain the body to unkink the energy.

Can develop techniques to uncover our essence. Most are silence and solitude.

Important to remember: the Essence is something you must eat and know…not read about and believe in. Big difference between believing and knowing.

Ways to taste our Essence: through breath. BREATH AND SPIRIT are one and the same…ancient language attests to this. We have separated two things never intended to be separate. Every time we see SPIRIT in the Scriptures we can replace with BREATH. If you want to know what God is really like, contemplate the nature of your breath…

In your Essence is a place of unending peace. You will always have it, no matter what happens, and you will always have it. It is the source of wisdom and compassion.

Our goal should be to cultivate our connection to our Essence in order to help people connect to God.

May we all continue to open ourselves, energy, and essence to experience God to better conduct God’s divine light into the world…

When you live in your essence is the gesture of the Spirit…waves on the same ocean. Wide open, free, unchanging, one with God.

Jesus developed mastery over the physical body through fasting, celibacy, carpentry; mastered energy by transmitting energy by healing, channeled anger to over turn tables, knew energy went from him when he was touched on cloak. Jesus also mastered ESSENCE. Had a commitment to develop access and aware of ESSENCE as us. His conviction Jesus essence and ours is not different…he just came to help us access it and be aware of it and develop it.

FATHER FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. Deep mastery of his Essence. Why about Essence? Body is LAND…Energy is OCEAN…Essence is the SKY. Cannot pierce or stab the sky. Only dwelling from this ‘place’ can you dwell in infinite peace. When you dwell in forgiveness it is inevitable to be in the Essence.

2:28—THE MEDIUM IS THE MESSAGE

Who we are…you and I are as a person is ultimately the message. Not just words. Who I am is the message. We’re gonna explore the medium of the Human being.

This is what divides the church. There are those who would embrace brother Shane in the name of LOVE and poetry and those who would reject his teaching as not Christian AT. ALL. Chris Rosebrough pointed out that we are not the message. We are the messengers, bringing the true Gospel about Jesus Christ to the world.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
(Joh 3:14-18)

Joe

I’m curious, did you make it to this event?

Discerning The World

Did you?

Discerning The World

There is also a lot of hypnosis at play here. They speak in circles. You spend most of the time wondering what on earth they are speaking about. And then all of a sudden you realise they are repeating themselves. They speak in riddles. They need to have a 3 day conference to tell people what they mean? And when people have left they are still not 100% sure, they are closer to the truth, and were given enough rope to go hang themselves with it by doing more reserach.

Give me 5 minutes and I would draw a better picture than Rob could ever muster and explain his intentions, his riddles and where he is going if he does not repent of his sin.

Discerning The World

Agree Amanda.

>> Eugene Roberts has warned against discernment ministries like those of Ken Silva and Ingrid Schlueter as they divide the ‘body of Christ’. He has to bless them, though, because the LAW of LOVE binds him.

Another name for this double speach is called being ‘two-faced’

jan(2)

There is a bit more to Shane Hipps talk:

medium of the human being.

First we have a body… don’t under estimate the power of a body. God himself emobdied. Our bodies are a powerful medium … and have three different aspects of the human being: physical, energetic, essential.

Physical: everything that’s … physical about us.

Energetic: this is the part can’t measure and interact with our 5 senses. The sensation going on… warm, radiant, open expansive, vast of anger, love, sadness, creativity, sexual (which is connected to life, creativity, connectedness) mental processes, presence, etc.. and these energies need to be cultivated, because they can atrophy. People have different footprint sizes of that energy (ie Rob Bell vs me).People experience those energies differently.

Essential: deepest part of who we are. Very different than the two. This one is unchanging. It is also unlimited. Open, boundless, always free. Nothing you can do to develop and expand. The only thing that changes is access to it. What changes is peoples awareness of their essence.

Example: Mother Theresa. Had an ordinary body, charisma/energy. But lived in this place of fearlessly, endlessing giving her life away. Lived with the same thing God was made of. Same DNA of the Divine. When you know you are made of the same stuff of God you are free.

Romans 8:11 – the very spirit who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you..that is my essence.
…..
Sounds like new age garbage to me.
That’s the second time that day Mother Theresa was mentioned. Mike Rollins “the violence of Christianity is fundamentally violent… against the principalities and powers. Mother Theresa and Martin Luther King ruptured the system”. [edited DTW: fixed sentence as per request]
Roman Catholism anyone..
also note the reference to DNA – that’s not the last time that one will surface.

Eugene Roberts

Amanda and Deborah

Ken Silva was quoted in this post and I wanted to inform you of this tragic event in the hope that you would join in prayer for him and his family. Can we please put our differences aside in this instance and pray that God’s grace and mercy through His Holy Spirit will comfort Ken and his family during this time?

Discerning The World

Tooo true!

J O Spies

Just for the record;

We are made up of BODY, SOUL and SPIRIT…

Body = Purely Physical
Soul = Emotions, Intellect, etc
Spirit = Breath/essence of man/controls our thoughts and actions

According to the Bible one can EITHER have the Spirit of Truth OR Spirit of Error – Neither both – NOR a mixture!

Greetings

J O

J O Spies

I forgot to mention that these so-called preachers and teachers are keeping themselves and others so busy with techniques on how to connect with God (or should I say “god”), they lead people away from the ONLY way to know what God has written and also inspired to be written…

Just stick to the Bible guys…

J O

Amanda

Ken Silva has both my prayers and my gratitude for warning the Body of Christ of the division in the church caused by false teachers. May the Lord Jesus Christ bless America for the sake of His steadfast witnesses: Ken Silva, Ingrid Schlueter, Chris Rosebrough, Todd Wilken, Todd Friel and many, many others, including the bold open air preachers. We in South Africa are blessed to be able to benefit from their hard work.

Discerning The World

jan(2)

that’s because it is new age (occult) teaching through and through…when will it end. *sniffs* never…just get worse day by day, hour by hour…

Joe

yep

Discerning The World

Great, then you should know what I am talking about.

Amanda

Eugene will keep the LAW of LOVE and bless his enemies and embrace emergents, even though what is taught in the name of Christianity is not Christian at all. You shall love your neighbour with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your imagination. This is the great and only commandment.

Discerning The World

I could not agree more.

Amanda

Because the Gospel of Jesus Christ is so offensive to natural man.

Amanda

So. is what Shane Hipps said the Christian faith or is it something else? In your opinion?

Joe

It depends. When a person talks about weightlifting is that Christian or is that something else? When someone talks about the best technique to use when running is that Christian or something else?

Discerning The World

Well it depends, when you know what your’re speaking about. In this case I have no idea what you’re speaking about.

Joe

By the way, Discerning The World, would you mind sharing your real name? I realize given your past brush with death threats and all that grave persecution you suffered in the name of being able to sling mud on the internet you may not feel comfortable but I’m a naive curious sort so I thought I’d ask.

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