Joyce Meyer is a Little God With a Big Christ Consciousness

Joyce Meyer little God with Big Christ consciousness

Joyce Meyer is a Little God With a Big Christ Consciousness

Joyce Meyer is admired by so many people, especially women, it’s actually quite ridiculous.  I think it’s mainly because she speaks like a psychologist. So watching her on TV or reading her books is like lying on that big leather sofa in a psychologists office and you get to speak you heart out all they while they tell you how to manage your life.  I also think that many women wish they could be like her.

Now lets get down to the nitty gritty.  Have you noticed how quickly Joyce Meyer speaks.  She is a bullet train.  You can’t keep up with what she is actually saying!  She mis-quotes scripture just as fast.  This is such a brilliant tactic.  She does not give you any time to take in what she is ACTUALLY saying.  Of course I can’t apply this to her books, because everyone reads at a different pace.  But she still mis-quotes scripture, and she knows no one will actually check to see if what she is quoting really lines up to the truth.  Sneaky Sneaky.

Why do false teachers always come up with such clever means of deceiving people.  Because Satan is actually very clever and knows exactly how to stop you from thinking for yourself and will always prevent you from going to the Bible to see if what he says is actually so.  Which of course it never ever will be true, for he is the father of lies.

So Joyce Meyer is a Word of Faith / Latter Rain and Emerging Church preacher (Yes Emerging, it’s a shock I know) .  She constantly preaches positive confessions.  If you speak good things into your life, then good things will happen.  If you speak positive things, then positive things will happen.  This is exactly the same as the Law of Attraction or Law of Return which IS Occult teaching.

Wiccan Rede

It works on the same principle as witchcraft’s The Wiccan Rede – “If no harm is done, do as you will”.  Or the Emergents;  The Golden Rule  – “Do unto others as you would have them do to you”.  So whatever energy a person puts out into the world, be it positive or negative, it will be returned to that person three times. But this also depends on what you believe and is not necessarily threefold. It could be more, like a hundredfold in Word of Faith teaching lol.  So what is the Eastern philosophical term for all this?  The Law of Karma!

Positive Confession is actually a spell.  You are casting a spell by ‘confessing’ what you want.  All you don’t have is a wand, but you do have a Joyce Meyer spell book.  All Joyce Meyer’s is short of is a hat and a broom.

Word of Faith doctrine

Years ago Word of Faith entered the public scene with massive revivals through the likes of William Branham et al.  The ‘religion’ of Word of Faith is a culmination of Metaphysical cult ideas mixed with Orthodox Christian teaching.   But no one knew this back then, everyone raised their hands and said, ‘Hallelujah!’  Church became exciting, the spirit was moving and people were being ‘saved’ left right and centre.  The Baptists were old school, the Methodists, well no one was really sure what they believed, but the Charismatics…well, they were genuine men and women of God.

Word of Faith teaching ±70 years ago contained 90% genuine Christian teaching.  ±30 years ago it contained 80% genuine Christian teaching.  Now they are 99% false teaching.  It’s so bad that they now openly proclaim the Little God teaching i.e.,  All is God and God is in All (Pantheism/Panentheism).  They have taken scripture in the bible and twisted it completely, with no shame what-so-ever!

So when the bible tells us that when you are genuinely saved, the Holy Spirit comes to abide in you and you are then continuously filled with the Holy Spirit as you grow in your faith and become like Christ.  They on the other hand are actually referring to the fact that you actually become a Christ.  That you can do what Jesus did, that you can now have the SAME authority as Jesus did by speaking your god faith out loud!  That as you grow in knowledge you move up the Transcendental ladder and will one day be on the same level as Jesus Christ.  Of course they did not preach this message outright ±20 years ago, and would deny that this is what they actually meant (some of them not even sure what they meant).  NOW they openly say it, but still have the audacity to deny that this is what they really mean.  How stupid do they think we are?  Well it seems most meet their expectations.

Ever wondered why Word of Faith teachers always have such lavish stage settings of gold chairs, gold ornaments and ridiculous over the top bling.  Are they trying to recreate heaven?  Are they little gods in their heaven on earth?  Just a thought.

So here is Joyce Meyer teaching the Little God teaching.  Notice how she first says she does not agree with the teaching and then goes on to agree with the teaching and then quotes scripture (very fast of course) to back-up the teaching.  They have to make sure you will never keep up.

Why do we not notice these oh so obvious things?  Or do we notice these things and instead of being utterly disgusted we push them aside and make like we did not hear it? All the while it’s been embedded in our subconscious.  Like subliminal messages of, “it might come as a shock, but you know you like it”.

A little god

The god with a little g that we are supposed to be as per Joyce Meyer is The Christ consciousness that the Occult teach we all have inside of us.  And Word of Faith / Latter Rain teach the exact same thing. They just speak the message differently, using different examples and different terminology.  But it’s the exact same New Age idea.   She speaks about Jesus Christ, but she is NOT speaking about the real Jesus Christ of the Bible but the Occult Christ that embodies all religions and allows us to think we are gods (big or small g it does not matter).  For all is God and God is in All.

New Age teaching is not new!

It’s ancient satanic knowledge that has been purposely made known, let out of the proverbial Pandora’s box in order to ensnare the entire world at just at the right time in history – the end times.  What once was a secret is no more.  Now you can get The Secret first hand at your local Christian book store, step by step instructions on how to ascend to god level.

I have transcribed the Joyce Meyer video, cos reading at ones own pace will hopefully help you take in what she is really saying.

Joyce Meyer teaches little god teaching:

“He and I were listening to a set of tapes by one man, he explained it like this….and I think this kinda gets the point across.  [note: wonder why she does not mention Creflo Dollars name as he proposed the little God theory quite a while back]

He said:  “you know, why do people have such a fit about God calling His creation His creation? His man, not his whole creation but His man, little gods? If He is God what’s He gonna call them?  But the god-kind! I mean if you as a human being have a baby you call it a humankind, if, if cattle have another cattle, they call it cattle kind.  So I mean, what’s God supposed to call us? Does not the bible say we are created in His image?” (Amen from the audience).

Now you understand I’m not saying you are God with a capital G.  That is not the issue here!  So don’t go trying to stone me or yell blasphemy at me.  The bible says, right here in John 10:34…let’s read this again, well lets just start again from verse 32. (Notice how she reads the Bible at Mach 1 speed)

“Jesus said to them, My Father has enabled Me to do many good deeds. [I have shown many acts of mercy in your presence.] For which of these do you mean to stone Me? The Jews replied, We are not going to stone You for a good act, but for blasphemy, because You, a mere Man, make Yourself [out to be] God. Jesus answered, Is it not written in your Law, I said, You are gods?”  (Joyce adds by saying, “little g” to the end of the verse.  Note:  This verse is taken from the Amplified bible)

So men are called gods by the law, men to whom gods message came and the scripture can not be set aside, cancelled or broken, or annulled.  Now if this is true, (Joyce is now referring to Jesus speaking) “You say of the the One whom the Father consecrated, dedicated, set apart for Himself, and sent into the world, you are blaspheming because I said I am the Son of God!  See when He began to say, “I’m the Son of God”, then they began to yell blasphemy.

Well I want you all to know that you are sons and daughters of All Mighty God. (Amen from audience). He has birthed us, we are born again, new creatures in Christ Jesus. We need to understand who we are, and what it is we’re supposed to be doing. And if we can get that revelation refreshed in us, but stay in some realm of balance, then I believe that God can use us in this last hour for many mighty acts and in the process we can give Him all the glory.

Oh I tell you I feel good about this. Don’t you feel good about it? (Amen from the audience).

I wish you had an amplified bible in front you but if you don’t then you may just have to listen here. If we study Psalm 82:

“GOD STANDS in the assembly [of the representatives] of God”  (Joyce then interrupts and says, “That’s us you know, see I’m a representative of God.  The bible says that God stands in the midst of those representatives. She then carries on with the verse). “…in the midst of the magistrates or judges He gives judgement [as] among the gods.” (She ends verse saying “little ‘g” then continues).  “…How long will you [magistrates or judges] judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? [pause, and calmly think of that]!” Verse[sic] 3,  (Joyce adds: He might as well just add here, “this is why I’ve given you power”) “…that you can do justice to the weak (poor) and fatherless; maintain the rights of the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy; rescue them out of the hand of the wicked”.

God has given us power and authority in these last days, that we might help hurting people. Let me ask you a question;  “When He empowered the twelve and He empowered the seventy what did He tell them?  Go preach the gospel, cast out devils, heal the sick? Every where you go help, hurting people!  We’ve got to understand that when power is delegated to us it is to help hurting people! (Amen from audience). It’s not for us to go and necessarily try to help ourselves all the time. But to help hurting people! And certainly you want to take authority over the enemy when he is coming against you. But the main thing is you want to help hurting people.

“Verse 5, …[The magistrates and judges] know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in the darkness [of complacent satisfaction];  (Joyce adds: “Now this is interesting…”) …all the foundations of the earth [the fundamental principles upon which rests the administration of justice] are shaking.”

I was listening to a man teach this week and he said that because people are not taking their proper places. Because God’s people are not taking their proper places everything on the earth is out of balance. All the foundations of the earth is supposed to be built upon are shaking in this hour. Cos God’s people are not taking their proper places! We’ve let the devil have what belongs to us! (Audience responds with approval).

Verse 6;  “I said, You are gods [since you judge on My behalf, as My representatives]; indeed, all of you are children of the Most High.”

It is important that we know who we are and that we walk with that power consciousness.”

And if that does not convince you that the Christ she speaks of is NOT the Jesus Christ of the Bible but the New Age Christ.  Then have a look at this:

[DTW emphasis and notes in green below]

Are you a Joyce Meyer Ministries fan?

If you enjoy Joyce Meyer’s teachings and want to hear God’s loving Voice within you in a very clear and recognisable way, you’re in the right place!

Joyce Meyer is a true blessing to millions of people all over the world who desire to deepen their relationship and communication with God. As a leading Christian evangelical teacher, Joyce Meyers clearly demonstrates her deep and abiding relationship with Jesus Christ through the way she lives, as well as through her many inspiring and life changing books. Joyce Meyer is a testament that God speaks to each of us, regardless of our personal backgrounds or challenges in life.

But there is something important that you may not realise.

God speaks to each of us exactly where we are.

What does that mean?

It means that God speaks to us exactly where we are on our path.

Let me give you an example.

Imagine a row of seven people sitting in front of you: a 6-year-old child, a physicist, a Catholic priest, a rebellious teenager, a mother of 10 children, a Buddhist monk, and a police officer. Now imagine that each one of these people asks God the same exact question. It could be about anything…. What would be in the highest good for me to say or do as I walk past this beggar on the street? What is my true purpose in life? What message would you have me impart to this group of elementary school students on career day? How can I best serve the world? Is it my highest good to invest in the stock market? What should I say or do when someone yells at me or threatens me?

Regardless of the question, do you know what each person is going to hear when they ask God the same question as everyone else?

They’re going to hear something totally unique to them. The 6-year-old child will not receive the same answer as the rebellious teenager, the Catholic priest, or the police officer. The mother of 10 will hear something different than the physicist or Buddhist monk. Each person has their own background, education, and belief system. Each one is learning their own unique lessons in life. Therefore, God will speak to each person exactly where they are on their path. One person may be learning about kindness or compassion, while another person may be learning about forgiveness, abundance, or self-empowerment. What one person needs to hear to re-connect with God [Note: The god of all beliefs/religions, all paths lead to the same god] and their True Self  [Note: Christ consciousness] is most likely different than what another person needs to hear.

In addition, we are constantly evolving and changing in our understanding and awareness. The lessons we were learning 10 years ago are most likely different from the lessons we are learning today. [Note: God says His Word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow].  In fact, who we are in this moment is different than who we were three months ago, three weeks ago, and even three days ago. Each time we open up to a deeper understanding and experience of Love and Peace in our lives, the fabric of our mind changes. We could probably ask God the same question every year for the rest of our lives and receive a different answer every time we asked because what we are learning and assimilating in each moment is different. [Note:  Emergent teaching that the bible can be interpreted any which way you want, depending on who you are, where you live and what mood you are in]. What we need to hear right now to restore ourselves to God is unique to this moment.

What does this have to do with Joyce Meyer?

Joyce Meyer is a beautiful soul and a wonderful teacher. She shares God’s Voice with millions of people all over the world in exactly the right way for them. But what if it were possible for you to hear God’s Voice just as clearly and intimately as she does?

What if you could experience God’s unconditional love for you EXACTLY AS YOU ARE?

What if you could learn to love yourself unconditionally, let go of ALL self judgement, fear, and guilt, and experience the freedom and peace of knowing that you remain exactly as God created you to be?  [Note: no such thing as sin anymore].  What if you could learn how to hear God’s Voice within you in a very clear and recognisable way so that you can receive the comfort, guidance, and healing that you seek in your life?

If your answer is YES, now is the time to take the next step and receive the unconditional love and guidance that God has to give you.

Here are the products offered by this website:  [emphasis added]

If you want to:
  • Transcend the world
  • Experience more happiness in your life
  • Recognise the divinity within all people
  • Remember your divine nature
  • Use the business of the world to awaken
  • Develop more consistency with your spiritual practises
  • See the world through God’s eyes
  • Understand the connection between being and creation
  • Fulfil your life’s purpose
  • Experience your divine innocence
  • Recognise your holiness
  • Discover your divine gifts
  • Uncover your heart’s desire
  • See the presence of God in all things
  • Experience Oneness
  • Live heaven on earth
  • Strengthen your creativity
  • Let go of unnecessary rules on your spiritual path
  • Develop more consistently with your meditation practise, and
  • Experience Enlightenment 
THEN….

Close your eyes as you listen to these guided meditations and allow the words of the Holy Spirit to gently guide your awareness ever deeper into the experience of your Divine Self!

source:  http://www.thevoiceforlove.com/joyce-meyer.html

New Age Spirituality

This website is dedicated to New Age Spirituality, Mysticism and Christ Consciousness (all Occult teaching). This website also thinks Joyce Meyer is the greatest thing since someone found holes in the moon.   If Joyce Meyer was preaching genuine Christian teaching, this website would have been dedicated to someone other than her.  The reason why they pick her as a beautiful, loving soul is because they are speaking the same language – they both believe the same Christ Consciousness Occultism.

NEVER EVER will genuine Christians agree in ANY WAY with false teaching.  And genuine Christians will NEVER EVER make excuses for wicked people’s behaviour either.  If you make excuses for them, then you belittle Jesus Christ. 

Conclusion:  

Joyce Meyer is just another Oprah Winfrey.  BUT Joyce Meyer is WORSE because she tells everyone she is a Christian, reads out of the bible and preaches to Christian audiences.   Oprah is at least honest and admits she is not a Christian and refuses the Bible in every way. At least with Oprah, we know what we are dealing with.   Joyce Meyer is conniving, lethal in her message, and a liar second to none.

Here is the Joyce Meyer Youtube video that I transcribed above:


Resources:

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_Three_(Wiccan))

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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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54 Comment authors
jannyRJDeborah (discerning the world)Mike Evansmelanie Recent comment authors
Redeemed
Guest
Redeemed

Like so many TV and international ministries, JM hides behind a facade of humanitarian endeavors. Just look around – there seems to be a pattern, doesn’t there? Humanitarian efforts are good when they are done in the name of the Lord with the motive of sharing the Gospel, but when they are done by a false teacher as a cover for their error, they become tainted and as filthy rags.

anna
Guest
anna

You are the deceivers

McPherson
Guest
McPherson

Reading your comments shows you read the bible with your own understanding, the bible is spiritual n must be read that way thats why you cannot understand Joyce Meyer. What she does is to try to make everyone understand, so she puts in examples. When we are born again we are children n he is our father. As for me I like joyce .!!!!

Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

McPherson,

I am sure you read your Bible spiritually with the result that you can agree with Joyce Meyer that she no longer sins. Are you also one of those who believe you no longer sin?

Please put on your spiritual goggles to read the following passage from Scripture spiritually.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

Noel
Guest
Noel

Hello.
As a matter of interest, I like you Deborah, have the rather unpleasant job of trying to expose false teachings, as we are exhorted to do in the Scriptures.
It is an unpaid, thankless task and often leads to rudeness, even persecution, and threats.
it is also quite a lonely job,, and often one which is not actually chosen, but which just seems to happen.

But wait. Look at all the individuals in the scriptures who told the truth, and exposed false teachings. Most, if not all of them were ostracised, marginalised, disfellowshipped, and more often than not, actually killed.

Name one, yes, just one will do, where someone trying to expose the half truths of false religion, had a successful million pound ministry and was feted by everyone around them.

Certainly it was not Yahushua.

So be encouraged.

Greetings from England.

N

melanie
Guest
melanie

I knew how you feel DTW, when some people was coming against you.I was telling the pastor and the people at church that no where in the bible did people bind up demons or send demons to hell,but they accused me begin of the devil. I have told my parents twice that the stuff,they have begin doing and saying. They didn’t say or did anything evil, but say things such as I command you to go back to the pit off hell, you know things that are not in the bible. Anyway yesterday I was telling my parents that the whole laying hands slain in the spirit was unbiblical, and yet especially me dad did the whole ear plug in laaa I can’t hear thing.

melanie
Guest
melanie

@Deborah
All those people who say that your wrong, well how do they know that they’re not wrong, hey maybe you are wrong about this woman. However you did that you have did your study on Joyce Meyer, and not some false study from some false guide, so yeah those Joycers(Joyce Meyer followers) just hate the fact that you are shining the on their goddess. Matter of fact maybe it was God who exposed her, he was just using you as a vessel, am I’m right about that.

Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

melanie wrote,

@Deborah
All those people who say that your wrong, well how do they know that they’re not wrong, hey maybe you are wrong about this woman. However you did that you have did your study on Joyce Meyer, and not some false study from some false guide, so yeah those Joycers(Joyce Meyer followers) just hate the fact that you are shining the on their goddess. Matter of fact maybe it was God who exposed her, he was just using you as a vessel, am I’m right about that.

The Word of God is our final authority. Anything said and taught that are not in harmony with his Word is wrong, especially when the doctrine of salvation comes to the fore.

Anyone who runs on ahead [of God] and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ [who is not content with what He taught] does not have God; but he who continues to live in the doctrine (teaching) of Christ [does have God], he has both the Father and the Son. (2 John verse 9).

o Jesus said to those Jews who had believed in Him, If you abide in My word [hold fast to My teachings and live in accordance with them], you are truly My disciples. (John 8:31).

So, as you can see, it is God who exposes the false teachers. However, you must abode in the Truth (in the Bible) in order to be able to identify false teachers. If you don;t, you are not abiding in Jesus’ Word.

melanie
Guest
melanie

Thank you! Tom. It’s a shame that she begin attack for unmasking false teacher, preacher, prophets, and those who she expose get mad at her too. Why can’t these people say thank for warning them about these so call christians. Is it because they live in darkness and want to follow darkness only, and hate the fact that she is rightfully exposing a their so called shepherd/dess.

Mike Evans
Guest
Mike Evans

Great article Deborah. No genuine minister of the gospel would be receiving endorsement from an openly New Age website. Joyce is no doubt a well-intentioned but self-trained Bible teacher who appears to collect doctrines from various false teachers and re-fashion them to her own ‘down-to-earth’ style. The fact that certain things which she teaches are valid (egs. the need to deny self-though her lavish lifestyle makes this truth a Pharisaical one coming from her lips; the importance of forgiving and being obedient to the Word regardless of feelings etc.) makes the added false doctrines even more persuasive and deadly. People who would never listen to Copeland or Dollar will receive the same leaven tailored for them by ‘straight-talkin’ Joyce’. (Thus her censoring of the source of her ‘little god’ teaching, a lie tsught openly by false minister John G. Lake, who influenced many including Kenneth Hagin, Copeland and the NAR false prophets Mike Bickle and Bill Johnson, who have resurrected the so-called ‘Healing Rooms’ which are daily wreaking havoc in the lives of many. An ‘angel’ -of course- led Johnson to do this when he visited the Lake house in Spokane and ‘grave-sucked’ the anointing from his burial site.)
By the way, I think your title for this article is very funny. Only last month I was shocked to see on the website of false prophet Jeremy Lopez (a buddy of Patricia King and many other dangerous and deluded NAR types) that the term ‘Christ consciousness’ is being openly bandied about. http://www.identitynetwork.net/apps/store/default.asp?view=profile&itemid=57888
The covert approach is gone. The false church is now boldly using New Age terminology.
This article from Charisma (which should correctly re-name itself Charismania) is an eye-opener. NAR supporters head up this magazine, and NAR authoress Jennifer Le Claire has an article on the ‘great awakening’ which is “on the horizon” and the (false) prophets and prophetesses (such as Cindy Jacobs,proudly pictured on this month’s cover) who are ‘speaking it forth’. Without a doubt, those of us who can see this stuff for the demonic deception that it is are in the minority and viewed as ‘the enemy’, the ‘scoffers’ which ‘God’ warned Beth Moore would try to “get in the way” of it. Could the rapture which these folk are denying be perversely viewed by these apostates as God’s judgment on those who refused to “get with the program”? Both the false, global church and the New Age movement (who have much in common spiritually) are predicting that those who oppose their one-world agenda will have to be gotten rid of.
http://www.charismamag.com/spirit/prophecy/24622-god-s-wake-up-call

Mike Evans
Guest
Mike Evans

P.S. I hope I am safe in assuming that people reading articles on this website know that Kris Vallotton, whose sermon on false prophets is posted above, is himself a false prophet of the NAR, being Bill Johnson’s Senior Associate pastor at the cult known as Bethel Church in Redding, CA. Here is a link to a good article on his heresies (if knowing he is a pastor at Bethel is not enough for some readers)
http://www.crossencounters.us/2013/10/bethel-church-false-gospel-of-kris.html

Deborah (discerning the world)
Guest

Hi Mike

Thank you for your comment. It’s really appreciated!

RJ
Guest
RJ

I’m coming to an older post/article, I realize.

Mike Evans, knowing your background, your input is GREATLY appreciated!!

And for those who accused you, Deborah, of “being jealous” of Joyce Meyer… rubbish! Or here in the States we might say, “hogwash”!! Good grief, I’m not jealous of her either — but rather I would NOT want to be standing in her shoes on Judgment Day, would you?!…

Pity, my women friends still just love Joyce sooo much! *sigh* Hey, why is it some 17-20 years ago I was head over heels about her, too…. yet now, to even SEE her on the TV station, it’s all I can do to QUICKLY change the channel? I hope that’s from better discernment!

Deborah, thanks for transcribing her video even though it’s been 6 years back… I’m not really a youtube person, so I tend to read… and it’s easier to inspect that way.

Quote from her own words: Oh I tell you I feel good about this. Don’t you feel good about it? (Amen from the audience). /END QUOTE

As the Bible says in the last days people will not endure sound doctrine, but will want their ears TICKLED. Boy, here’s a GREAT example of that!! “feel good”!!!….

And then, I all but GASPED at her last quotes: Verse 6; “I said, You are gods [since you judge on My behalf, as My representatives]; indeed, all of you are children of the Most High.”

It is important that we know who we are and that we walk with that power consciousness.” /END QUOTE

“power consciousness”?? I’ve always been vague and just plain ignorant RE: new age terms, but does this ever sound like new age!! Also that part about “children of the Most High” ~ oh my goodness!!! Reminds me soooo much of the demon possessed girl in Acts 16!!!!!

janny
Guest
janny

I listen to Joyce Meyer alot. study to show thyself approved. I have studied my dear. if you have any issue in believing what the scriptures says then you have a big problem and need help. I pray that your heart will be open and receptive for the word of God to penetrate and change you. Christ is the sure way to God. for in Him dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Tom (Discerning the World)
Admin
Member

Janny

This applies to you,

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (2Ti 4:3-4)

Robbie
Guest
Robbie

Mat 15:14: Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Mind the ditch Janny