Understanding the Trinity: God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit

Trinity - God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit

Understanding the Trinity is actually very easy and I will explain it to you today.  I will also explain the false teachings out there on what the Trinity is not, so you can understand what you are possibly believing in and change to the correct understanding of what the Trinity is.

The Trinity is ONE God existing in three separate Persons.  Now realise this just because we say three Persons does not mean there are three separate Gods, there is only ONE God. Now the world Trinity is not found in the bible, it is only a word used to describe  the “trinue” Godhead, that being three co-external,  co-existent Persons who make up ONE God.   So it’s not the word Trinity that is of importance, it’s what it represents that’s important.

The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is ONE God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of THREE SEPARATE PERSONS.  See here: (Genesis 1:1,26;3:22;11:7; Isaiah 6:8,48:16,61:1; Matthew 3:16-17,28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14).

  • In (Genesis 1:1), the plural noun for “Elohim” is used (that meaning more than one). In( Genesis 1:26,3:22,11:7 and Isaiah 6:8), the plural pronoun for “us” is used.  “us” denotes that there is more than one person at the same time.
  • In (Isaiah 48:16 and Isaiah 61:1), Jesus Christ the Son is speaking while making reference to the God the Father and the Holy Spirit.
  • Compare (Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19) to see that it is the Jesus Christ the of Son of God speaking.
  • (Matthew 3:16-17) describes Jesus Christ’ baptism. Notice in this passage that the Holy Spirit descends on Jesus Christ the Son while GOD the Father proclaims from heaven that He is happy with His Son.
  • (Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14) are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

3) In the Old Testament the members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in a number of scriptures.

  • Capitalized ‘LORD’ is distinguished separately from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4), in other words, The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7,12;Proverbs 30:2-4).
  • The Holy Spirit is distinguished separately from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from ‘God’ (Psalm 51:10-12).
  • Jesus Christ the Son is distinguished separately from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9).

In the New Testament

  • In the book of John, Jesus Christ the Son speaks to the God the Father about sending a Helper, that being the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17).  This tells us that Jesus was not part of the Father or the Holy Spirit but separate.
  • Remember all the occasions in the bible where Jesus Christ speaks to God the Father.  Was He speaking to Himself?  No.  He was speaking to the other person in the Godhead, His Father.

4) Now each Person in the Trinity is God, God the Father (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). God the Son (John 1:1,14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). and God the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16). But they are not separate GODS as I mentioned earlier, they are all ONE.

5)  There is actually subordination within the Godhead.

  • The Bible teaches us that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son.
  • Jesus Christ is subordinate to God the Father.

This is how their relationship works and it does not deny the deity of any person within the Godhead.   Concerning Jesus Christ the Son see (Luke 22:42; John 5:36; John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14).  Concerning the Holy Spirit see (John 14:16,14:26; 15:26,16:7, and most importantly see  (John 16:13-14.)

6) The individual persons of the Godhead have different tasks.

  1. God the Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11);  divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus’ human works (John 5:17;14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.
  2. Jesus Christ the Son is the advocate through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1,16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through Jesus Christ the Son, who functions as His advocate/agent.
  3. The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15;Ephesians 3:5;2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6;Titus 3:5;1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus’ works (Isaiah 61:1;Acts 10:38).  Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Trinity of God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit

The doctrine of the Trinity has caused much division throughout the history of the entire Christian church, must of it causing Christians to fall of the narrow path and follow deceptive doctrines.  The main aspects of the Godhead are clearly explained in the Word of God that being;  God the Father who is a Spirit (John 4:24), God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are 3 separate Persons within the Godhead and this is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity.

Biblical Trinity vs. Catholic Trinity

Neither Catholics or Jehovah Witnesses understand the difference between 1st Century Biblical Trinity vs. 4th century Creedal Trinity and apparently neither do many Christians today who appear to be very confused on this issue.

  • The Catholic Trinity denies the Bible doctrine of the subordination of Jesus Christ Christ to God the Father.
  • The Catholic Trinity speaks where the Bible was silent in explaining how God is three in one.
  • The Catholic Trinity goes beyond the simple Bible truths of the deity of Jesus Christ and the personality of the Holy Spirit and speculates the “mechanical make-up” of God on almost an “atomic level”.

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Modalism – God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are not manifestations:

There are some false teachings out there, one in particular called Modalism or Sabellianism.  Modalism is a:

Sabellius (fl. ca. 215) was a third century priest and theologian who most likely taught in Rome, but may have been an African from Libya. Basil and others call him a Libyan from Pentapolis, but this seems to rest on the fact that Pentapolis was a place where the teachings of Sabellius thrived, according to Dionysius of Alexandria, c. 260. What is known of Sabellius is drawn mostly from the polemical writings of his opponents.

Sabellius taught that God was single and indivisible, with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being three modes or manifestations of one divine Person. A Sabellian modalist would say that the One God successively revealed Himself to man throughout time as the Father in Creation; the Son in Redemption; and the Spirit in Sanctification and Regeneration. (Because of this focus on God’s revelation of himself to man, Modalism is often confused with Economic Trinitarianism).  [Emphasis added]

However, Gregg Allison explains modalism was first, tt wasn’t started by a third-century teacher from Rome named Sabellius…but

“introduced by Praxeas in Rome, articulated by Noetus of Smyrna and his disciples Zephyrinus and Callistus (both bishops of Rome), and popularized by Sabellius”   —  Gregg Allison, Historical Theology (p. 235).

Also known as “modalistic monarchianism,” this heretical view:

“… held that there is one God who can be designated by three different names-‘Father,’ ‘Son,’ and ‘Holy Spirit’-at different times, but these three are not distinct persons. Instead they are different modes (thus, modalism) of the one God. Thus, God can be called ‘Father’ as the Creator of the world and Lawgiver; he can be called ‘Son’ as God incarnate in Jesus Christ; and he can be called ‘Holy Spirit’ as God in the church age. Accordingly, Jesus Christ is God and the Spirit is God, but they are not distinct persons.” (Ibid., 235-36). [Emphasis added]

Since the Councils of Nicaea (325) and other councils, modalism has been understood by everyone and by every major branch of orthodox Christianity to be heretical. –

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Does anyone still believe in Modalism ?

Well yes, Oneness Pentecostalism (also known as Apostolic Pentecostalism or One God Pentecostalism) refers to denominations and/or believers, all of whom believe in the  nontrinitarian theological doctrine of Oneness. This movement rose up around 1914 and claims an estimated 24 million followers today.

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit

Oneness teaching asserts that God is a singular spirit who is one person, not three divine persons, individuals or minds. “Father”, “Son” and “Holy Spirit” are merely titles reflecting the different personal manifestations of the One True God in the universe. When Oneness believers speak of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, they see these as three personal manifestations of one being, one personal God:

Father: The title of God in parental relationship

Son of God: God incarnate in human flesh;[2] “Son” refers to either the humanity and the deity of Jesus together, or to the humanity alone, but never to the deity alone[7]

Holy Spirit: The title of God in activity as Spirit

Oneness teachers often quote a phrase used by early pioneers of the movement – “God was manifested as the Father in creation, the Son in redemption, and the Holy Ghost in emanation.”

Oneness theology sees that when the one personal and omnipresent God manifests or reveals himself, it is in a personal way. Oneness theology sees the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as one transcendent, personal, omnipresent God manifesting himself in three personal and distinct ways or forms to redeem and sanctify sinful and lost humanity, and also that all the fullness of the deity resides fully in the person of Christ. (Col. 2:1-10) — Wiki Oneness Pentecostalism

and

Oneness Pentecostalism teaches that God is one Person, and that the Father (a spirit) is united with Jesus (a man) as the Son of God. However, Oneness Pentecostalism differs somewhat by rejecting sequential modalism, and by the full acceptance of the begotten humanity of the Son, not eternally begotten, who was the man Jesus and was born, crucified, and risen, and not the deity. This directly opposes Patripassianism and the pre-existence of the Son, which Sabellianism does not.

Oneness Pentecostals believe that Jesus was “Son” only when he became flesh on earth, but was the Father before being made man. They refer to the Father as the “Spirit” and the Son as the “Flesh”. But they believe that Jesus and the Father are one essential Person. Though operating as different “manifestations” or “modes”. Oneness Pentecostals reject the Trinity doctrine, viewing it as pagan and un-Scriptural, and hold to the Jesus’ Name doctrine with respect to baptisms. They are often referred to as “Modalists” or “Sabellians” or “Jesus Only”. Oneness Pentecostalism can be compared to Sabellianism, or can be described as holding to a form of Sabellianism, as both are Nontrinitarian, and as both believe that Jesus was “Almighty God in the Flesh”, but they do not totally identify each other.  —http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism

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T D Jakes is a Modalist: 

T. D. Jakes is part of the Oneness Pentecostal movement.

– The Potter’s House website says this in their doctrinal statement:

“There is one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in three manifestations: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”  [Emphasis added]

– According to a 2000 article from Christianity Today, when asked about the doctrine of the Trinity, T. D. Jakes responded:

TD Jakes - Modalist - God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit

“The Trinity, the term ‘Trinity,’ is not a biblical term, to begin with. It’s a theological description for something that is so beyond human comprehension that I’m not sure that we can totally hold God to a numerical system. The Lord said, “Behold, O Israel, the Lord thy God is one, and beside him there is no other.” When God got ready to make a man that looked like him, he didn’t make three. He made one man. However, that one man had three parts. He was body, soul, and spirit. We have one God, but he is Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Spirit in regeneration.”  [Emphasis added]

– In a response to the above Christianity Today article (also from 2000), Jakes used this illustration to define his understanding of the Godhead:

“Though no human illustration perfectly fits the Divine, it is similar to ice, water and steam: three separate forms, yet all H²O. Each element can co-exist, each has distinguishing characteristics and functions, but all have sameness.”  [Emphasis added]

Later, in that same article, Jakes denied that his use of the word “manifestations” was rooted in modalism:

“The language in the doctrinal statement of our ministry that refers to the Trinity of the Godhead as “manifestations” does not derive from modalism. The Apostle Paul himself used this term referring to the Godhead in 1 Timothy 3:15, 1 Corinthians 12:7, and 1 John 3:5-8 [sic]. Peter also used the term in 1 Peter 1:20. Can this word now be heresy when it is a direct quote from the Pauline epistles and used elsewhere in the New Testament?”

– However, many Christians were not convinced. In a 2001 article, again in Christianity Today,  TD  Jakes says:

“And God said, ‘Let us. Let usssssss … ‘” says Jakes, and then digresses: ” … One God, but manifest in … three different ways, Father in creation, Son in redemption, Holy Spirit in regeneration. And God said, ‘Let usssssss … ‘”  [Emphasis added]

There we have it again, modalism, this is the view of those in off Oneness Pentecostals, which describes TD Jakes.

– A 2002 Christianity Today article further explained that evangelicals have always regarded Oneness Pentecostalism as being outside the boundaries of orthodox Christianity, noting that “orthodox Christian theologians believe Oneness theology is guilty of the heresy of modalism.”

– In a more recent interview –  2010 interview –  T. D. Jakes suggests that he wants to distance himself from Oneness Pentecostalism. However, he is still very confused when it comes to the Trinity. After prancing around the issue, Jakes finally comes out and says says:

“I believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I believe that they are three Persons. I believe that in a way that Persons is a limited word for the Godhead. And even those who adhere to that say that to be true. But I think the issue is that they are distinctive. There are things that can be said about the Father that couldn’t be said about the Son and then the Holy Spirit… I believe that. I’ve grown into that, but I came into a Pentecostal church that happened to be Oneness. They loved me at a time that my father died. I became friends with them and in covenant with them and embraced them. And though I don’t agree with everything, and they don’t agree with everything, they’re evolving as a people.’

It actually doesn’t matter what TD Jakes says, he is still a false teacher and is unbiblical on a multitude of other issues besides this issue.   Another things is this, people don’t “evolve”.  As a born again Christian you know the truth as the Holy Spirit tells you what is wrong and what is right and He will not lie to you about how the Trinity is comprised; that being 3 separate co-existing, co-external Persons:  God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit as one God.

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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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“The Trinity is not in the Bible and neither was there any LOVE before the creation of all things. ONE being played a little game of taking on different modes or forms so that He may express love FOR HIMSELF. First He took on the mode of the Father, and then abandoned that mode to take on the form of the Son, and then that of the Holy Spirit until He decided to remain fixed in the mode of the Son, Jesus Christ.”

Redeemed

Paul, how can you call promoting a book by a false teacher, Tom Raddatz stimulating a genuine debate? You spoke highly of this book and practically begged Deborah to read it and said it had turned your life upside down. You were right, it has deceived you. I exposed it because I did not want others to be deceived.

Just because a certain term is not in the Bible does not mean that another term cannot describe the CONCEPT. Those who deny the Rapture also say that word is not in the Bible.

Carolyn

I listened to the debate between David Bernard and Gene Cook in one of the videos posted above. David Bernard had some good thoughts but I think Gene Cook kept to Scripture without inserting man’s thinking…I have to go with what I read in the Word of God.
1. God himself makes a DISTINCTION between the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.
2. When God created Adam, he said Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
3. If the Father is on the throne, who is that seated next to him? Again, God has made a distinction between two persons.

I think if we listen to men’s ideas, we can be swayed to think differently, but just reading the Word, it becomes plain enough that God is One in Nature and Character, but there are three distinct persons. Do we understand it perfectly? I know I don’t, but I believe it. Again, it is a matter of identity…the Father identifies himself in relationship as the Father both to the Son and to his regenerated children, Christ identifies himself as the Son of God and the Son of Man and the Holy Spirit identifies himself as the Spirit of Truth.

The problem, it occurs to me, is the divisiveness of the Oneness doctrine. Once again, if we just read the word of God, would there be this divisiveness on this issue? I think not. It’s over thinking that complicates and confuses.

God made the truth simple. The hard part is keeping it simple.

Edward

Well said Carolyn! I watched the videos too.

I would personally like to thank Paul for posting them. Those debates have done more to bear witness to the identity of the Biblical God, as He has revealed Himself to be in His Word, as held by the “trinitarian” understanding.

The “Oneness” defenders are blind, “read into” and “ignore” Scripture, and we see the fruit of their “teaching” – that being a brother, Paul being led away from truth into error. It is a clear demonstration that we are all vulnerable spiritually, when we follow men, rather than “filling” ourselves up with the pure word of God, and seeking understanding through the Holy Spirit, whose job is to open the Scriptures to us. Then we be children, “tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive” (Ephesians 4:14)

These “teachers” make it “sound” right – but it’s not – it’s seductive
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;” (1 Timothy 4:1,2)

We KNOW “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16,17)

Sad indeed, prayers. There is hope, doctrine, warning, and command here: “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (my comment: and this includes all twisted teachings of the “in the flesh” . All the cults admit that Jesus came in the flesh – the question is about “who” came in the flesh). This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath BOTH the Father AND the Son. IF there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” (2John 1:7-11)

Anon mouse

Thoughts on trinity!
The word trinity has become a stumbling block to many people. But this is the cornerstone for our Christian belief and our salvation.

OLD TESTAMENT/ OLD COVENANT PERIOD:

The time during which God made a covenant with Abraham and then gave the ten commandments to Moses. God spoke to people through his holy spirit.

Even though Jesus who is God’s word and the holy spirit existed along with the father from the beginning they were not explicitly expressed as trinity during the old covenant time.
Eventhough Jesus existed as the word from the beginning God designed a body for him when he came to this earth (Hebrews 10:5). We see that after Jesus offered himself as a sacrifice, he was seated at the right side of the father (Hebrews 10:12).

As a part of the old covenant when men disobeyed God and willfully obeyed satan an animal sacrifice was performed to atone for it. When man disobeyed God he sold his life to satan. So a blood was offered to redeem the life of the man as we know that life is in the blood. In the old testament it was a blemishless animal that was offered. But it became ritualistic and meaningless.

NEW TESTAMENT / NEW COVENANT PERIOD:

God wanted to pay a price to redeem mankind from satan forever. So he wanted to replace the animal’s blood with his own blood as a price once and for all. So he himself wanted to come to this earth and pay the price (Romans 8:3). But the father God is holy, he can not see sin and no one has ever seen him. So he sent his word in the form of a flesh to atone for the sins of men.

That’s why the incarnate word of God is called the son of God. (Just because the term son of God is used his birth cannot be compared to the birth of a human child. THIS TERM IS USED BECAUSE THIS IS THE CLOSEST TERM WE CAN USE TO MAKE HUMANS UNDERSTAND.

After Jesus death, resurrection and ascension the holy spirit was sent to the believers to empower them and guide them.

Jesus and holy spirit were sent by the father to fulfill his will on this earth! That’s why the three of them are going to witness about the work they did here on this earth (I John 5:7). This is also understandable by the command which God gave to Moses in which he said any issue should be accepted with the testimony of two or three witness (Deuteronomy 19:15).

That’s why it became important to explain God in terms of trinity in the new covenant period or the new testament period!!

FATHER GOD:

The father God is the creator , holy, who cannot see sin and whom no one has seen (I Timothy 6:15,16). It is his will that happens in all the world (Ephesians 1:12; Matthew 6:10; II Timothy 1:9; Ephesians 1:9, 10).

JESUS:

Jesus is the incarnate word of God. I don’t see many people explaining about Jesus this way. But our fore fathers were familiar with it as we see in the Christmas hymn ” O come all ye faithful”. Every year we sing “Word of the father now in flesh appearing”

The father God honored his word above all his names (Psalms 138:2). None of the words of God is spoken in void. It accomplished its purpose and returns to the father (Isaiah 55:11)

Isaiah who prophesied about the birth of Jesus has also mentioned it in Isaiah 9:6-8 (particularly verse 8). Jesus is the word of God who became flesh or the word of God took the form of a man and was born in Bethlehem as a baby John 1:1-3, 14, I John 5:7; Rev 19:13, Hebrews 4:12, 13 (note these two verses talk about the word of God verse 12 starts with the word of God; verse 13 says nothing is hidden from ‘his’ eyes and not ‘its’ eyes.

He is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of God’s being Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:3. That’s why Jesus said whoever has seen him has seen his father. This is the reason why he is also called the son of God!

Because God created everything with his word, we also read that God created everything through Jesus (John 1:3; Hebrews 1:2; Colossians 1:16). In II Peter 5-7, it clearly says that the world was created by God’s word and through the same word it is going to be judged. We read in John 5:22 that the father has handed over the authority to judge to Jesus!

Jesus was sent to this earth to fulfill some actions in this earth decided by the father (Jesus does not do anything on his own will) John 5:19- 21; John 17:4; John 4:34; John 12:49, 50; John 6:37,38; John 5:36; John 15:10,15; John 5:17; John 6:45; Hebrews 10:7-10; John 14:10.

Father God has given authority over everything to Jesus (John 3:35; Colossians 1:16; John 5:27; John 13:3; I Peter 3:22; Ephesians 1:20 – 23) but after Jesus defeats all the enemies he will hand back the authority to father God (I Corinthians 15:24 – 26).

Because Jesus is the word of the father God, the word that comes out of the father God’s mouth is first conceived in the thoughts of the father God. Then it is spoken out. This is the very reason Jesus said his father is greater than him (John 10:29). This is also the reason why Jesus said he does not know the hour of his coming. Because Jesus is the word of the father, the word is realized only when it is articulated. That does not make Jesus any inferior to the father God. By commonsense will anyone say that a person’s word is greater or lesser than the person himself. The relationship between Jesus and the father is also similar.

Jesus is the incarnate word of God. The Bible is the inspired word of God. The Bible is the word of God written down by the inspiration of the holy spirit for our benefit (II Timothy 3:16, 17). This is why the Bible says we are born again through the word of God (I Peter 1:23). That’s why the Bible has got the same power which Jesus had! This inspired word of God which is the verses of the holy Bible is written in our hearts by the Holy Spirit (II Corinthians 3:3).

HOLY SPIRIT:

Holy spirit is the spirit of the father God who is sent to this earth to empower believers and to carry out the father’s will after Jesus left this earth (I John4:13; I Peter 4:14.

When Jesus was in this earth he was in the form of a human flesh 100% human 100% divine. (Hebrews 5:7,8; Philippians 2:5-9). Jesus was sent in the likeness of sinful flesh (Romans 8:3) Thats why Jesus said if anyone blasphemes against him that will be forgiven. Whereas there is nothing human about a holy spirit he is the spirit of the father god, thatswhy if anyone blasphemes the holy spirit there is no forgiveness in this life or after life!

The Holy spirit is a spirit. The holy spirit does not have a separate body, soul and spirit. The holy spirit is a spirit. He is the spirit of God. He does not have a body. He does not speak, listen etc. as understood by human mind. He convicts, inspires and instigates the heart of men. THE WORD “PERSON” IS USED BECAUSE WE DON’T HAVE A BETTER TERM TO EXPRESS HIS IDENTITY.

The holy spirit does not do anything on his own will but he fulfills the will of the father (John 16:13 – 15; Romans 8:27; I Corinthians 2:10-12). Can you imagine your spirit doing something different from what your mind thinks? If God, son and the spirit each had their own free will wont it cause confusion in the God head?

Some people mistakenly think that the Holy spirit has independent will and for that they quote I Corinthians 12:11. But if we read Hebrews 2:4 we see the same work being done by God. In I Corinthians it says holy spirit distributes the gifts to show how inseparable God and Holy spirit are in their decisions! When Peter says that Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit in the next verse we see Peter telling him that he lied to God. (Acts 5:3,4).

If a persons spirit is grieved the person is automatically grieved. We can read in Psalms when David says that his spirit is grieved. That does not make his spirit into an independent person. So if the holy spirit is grieved we grieve God automatically. But many insist that the holy spirit can be grieved alone.

Holy spirit is a subsistence of the trinity God and not a person as commonly used in human terms! We also should understand that as humans we are not able to send our spirits out of our body but the all powerful God can do that. Even satan also does a similar work by sending his evil spirit into this earth to accomplish evil works. We read an example of this in Mark 5:1-13.

Because the father God is omnipresent, omnipotent and eternal. His word (Jesus Christ) and his spirit (Holy spirit ) are also omnipotent, omnipresent and eternal. The father God created this world through Jesus his word which was brought alive by his spirit (the holy spirit). We can see this very clearly in the creation of Adam Genesis 1:26 – 28; 2:7,8.

IF ANYONE WANTS A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF THE TRINITY JUST
TAKE FEW MOMENTS TO THINK AND LEARN ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOUR BODY, THE PRODUCTION OF WORDS FROM YOUR MOUTH AND YOUR SPIRIT.

THE TRINITY CONCEPT BECOMES PRACTICAL, THE BIBLE COMES ALIVE AND NO ONE CAN DENY TRINITY!

I SINCERELY BELEVE THAT THERE IS NOTHING INCORRECT IN COMPARING THE IMAGE OF GOD AND THE IMAGE OF MAN BECAUSE GOD CREATED MAN IN HIS OWN IMAGE (GENESIS 1:26)!

Enoch

God is not a Trinity. Man is not a trinity. From Taylor’s book:

According to the Word of God, God formed Man’s body from the dust of the ground, breathed God’s breath of life (spirit) into Man’s body, and Man came alive, became a living soul; that is, Body + Spirit = Soul. Genesis 2:7 shows that The Trinity is a false doctrine. The Trinity, or any trinity, has 3 equal parts. This equation accurately reflects Genesis 2:7, and it demonstrates that body, spirit, and soul are not 3 equal parts. This equation says that body and spirit are two parts each by itself, but the soul is not a part by itself, for the soul is dependent on the other two parts, body + spirit. Can a body exist by itself? Yes. Can a spirit exist by itself? Yes. Can a soul exist by itself? No. A soul needs both body and spirit in order to come into existence, as this verse explicitly says.

Copyright © 2016-2017 Arthur Rain Taylor. All Rights Reserved.
Body, Spirit, Soul – An Exposition of Genesis 2:7
ISBN-10:0-9985753-1-3; ISBN-13:978-0-9985753-1-5
20-pages essay, $2.99 at iTunes, Barnes & Noble, etc.
.

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Enoch quoted from Taylor’s infamous book,

Can a body exist by itself? Yes. Can a spirit exist by itself? Yes. Can a soul exist by itself? No. A soul needs both body and spirit in order to come into existence, as this verse explicitly says.

Enoch, I suggest that you hire an earth removal company and visit your nearest graveyard to dig up every single grave. Then you will see that every single body in those graves are still alive, despite the fact that their souls and spirits have departed. Oh, and don’t be too concerned about the maggots feeding on their bodies because the notion that they are feasting ON dead bodies, is wrong. They are not feasting ON dead bodies; the living bodies are feasting WITH the maggots. And in case you don’t want to do this, it may be easier to read you Bible without those Taylor-made spectacles that are blinding you.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:26)

Johan Vermeulen

Hi Deborah

Thank you for the reply – I think that we see things the same way now for the most part. I just want to comment on Psalm 2, but before I do just a few things.

1. I have no problem to comment out in the open so I really dont know why you have to make statements like “You won’t comment out in the open because you have something to hide”. That is a definitive and conclusive statement, I really dont know why you have to make such a statement, but I leave it to you.
2. Yes I have no problem for my comments to be published or to comment further as long as it is possible for others to be edified by our conversation. The only reason I initially sent my question offline is that I thought that it was not related close enough to you original article – thats all.
3. You also said “I surmise you are an Angus Buchan follower. Tell me I am wrong. You quote Pslam 2 which appears to be a complete rebuke more than anything else, at the time Tom published his article on Angus Buchan.” No let me emphatically state that I am not an Angus Buchan follower. To me personally there are concerns that I have around his ministry especially his assosiation with NAR doctrine and “NAR prophets”. His latter rain/manifest sons of God assosiations are of concern to me and not scriptural. Also I really do not know why you would conclude that my reference to Psalm 2 was a rebuke of any kind. I am really dumbfounded on that statement.

So to conclude. Yes I think we see things the same now scripturally. And the reason I quoted Psalm 2 (I dont understand why you say that I should have quoted Psalm 16 instead, I still believe that Psalm 2 is relevant) was that after I sent my question to you at first, I went back to the Bible and Psalm 2 put things in perspective for me. In Acts 2 the writer quotes Psalm 2 from verse 31 it states “he, forseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption” From the context it is clear that Psalm 2 is a prophetic Psalm to be fulfilled by Jesus, as He did.

So whilst Jesus body lay in the grave, His soul went to Sheoul/Hades. Yes He went to Abrahams bossom (Paradise), but from scriptures in Peter it seems he also went to the “bad part” (if I can call it that) of Sheol to proclaim his victory to spirits in prison. The Greek word used in Peter is proclaim, and not preach. So maybe he went to tell the demonic spirits in chains that the game was up for them. I dont know as I dont want to read anything into the text that it does not state. But Peter is clear that the Angels who did not keep their propper abode are bound. The way I uderstand it is that certain Angels are bound, but not Satan and his Angels as they are not yet bound as we see in scripture. It is clear that after Jesus went to Abrahams bosom he also went to the other side of Sheol to proclaim His victory.

Best Regards
Johan

Johan Vermeulen

Hi Deborah

I also want to make a correction and apology. Yes you are right I keep on referring to Psalm 2, but it is actually Psalm 16. This is just human error, in my mind I see Psalm 16 but I keep writing Psalm 2. Psalm 16 is what I referred to in my mind but in reality it is Psalm 16. That is my sincere mistake, am writing things to fast, should have double checked.

regards

John

Hi Johan: Jesus did not have to go to the “bad” side of Sheol to talk to the spirits there. If you recall Luke 16:24-26 Abraham spoke to the rich man across the great divide. They could see each other and talk to each other, but they couldn’t cross the great chasm. John

Johan Vermeulen

Dear Deborah

I have enjoyed this thread as it is a pivotal doctrinal issue and something that we Christians often think about and try to understand as best we can as humans. There has been a lot of good comments that have really been edifying.

I do however want to ask another question that you or some of the friends on this thread could maybe assist with. From a human perspective it is now easy for us to understand that Jesus sits on a throne in a glorified body next to God the Father, and He sits there as 100% God and 100% man. However Jesus told us that God is spirit. So I take that that God (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) was spirit since forever, and only Jesus now has a glorified body. That would mean that God the Father and the Holy Spirit still remains in spirit form. But we also see in Ezekiel and in Daniel visions of the Ancient of Days, God the Father. When I read these scriptures in my minds eye I see God the Father sitting on a throne. Now to sit on a throne would mean that God the Father’s lets say essence of being has a form, very similar to that of human beings. How do you guys see it, is that taking it too far? You know Mormons take things too far in this regard and that is not what I am saying. Any thoughts?

best regards and a great weekend
Johan

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

The Ancient of Days (God the Father) could not have been God if He was unable to sit on a throne just because He is spirit. In Psalm 2:6-9 we see God (the Ancient of Days) conferring on his Son the authority to rule the nations and receive their worship. In Daniel’s vision (13-14) Jesus approaches the Ancient of Days on his throne which is the fulfillment of Psalm 2:6-9. The Ancient of Day’s white clothing and hair are metaphorical language and speak of his unfathomable holiness.

Johan Vermeulen

Thanks Tom

I like the explanation that “The Ancient of Days could not have been God if He was unable to sit on a throne just because He is spirit” It makes perfect sense to me. I also learnt something re the connection between Psalm 2 and Daniels vision. I will study this further for myself. The Word of God is amazing, especially once you start to connect the right dots (allowing scripture to interpret scripture), just amazing considering that the books of the Bible were written over so many centuries but are so completely in harmony. Wow, God is great.

rgrds
Johan

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

HI Johan. You have the right attitude and that is to be a Berean studying the Bible for himself. Go fer it.

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