What is Hyper Dispensationalism?
Dispensationalism is a religious interpretive system for the Bible. It considers Biblical history as divided by God into dispensations, defined periods or ages to which God has allotted distinctive administrative principles. According to dispensationalist theology, each age of God’s plan is thus administered in a certain way, and humanity is held responsible as a steward during that time.
Wikipedia – Dispensationalsim
Classic Dispensationalism
First of all, let me say that we at Discerning the World are classic-dispensationalist. We believe that Biblical history is divided by God into dispensations to which God has allotted distinctive administrative principles. Throughout time circumstances change, and therefore, God’s instructions change. I believe in a consistent literal and plain interpretation of scripture; the distinctiveness of Israel and the Church; and that the underlying purpose of God in the world is the glory of God. You could certainly expand on that further, but I think that captures dispensationalism succinctly.
The question then becomes, what is meant by hyper-dispensationalism?
The term is not new or made up. Hyper-dispensationalist make a very sharp distinction between the ministry of Christ and the Apostles, with a further sharp dividing between Paul’s teaching and that of Peter and the other Apostles. Here are some (but not all inclusive) characteristics of hyper-dispensationalism:
1. Hyper-dispensationalist believe that the four Gospels are entirely Jewish and contain no direct teaching for the Church. However, Hebrews 2:3-4 says that the same gospel of salvation preached by the Apostles was preached by Christ. In addition, 1 Timothy 6:3 shows that Christ spoke directly to the Church age.
2. Hyper-dispensationalist also believe that the Book of Acts was also largely Jewish. Hyper-dispensationalist believe that Jews were given a second chance to receive the Gospel in Acts. They teach two different Churches are viewed in the Book of Acts and the true Pauline church started in either Acts Chapter 9, 13, or 28 (depending on who you talk to.) But at the end of Acts, Paul is still preaching about the Kingdom as seen in Acts 28:23. Paul also preached the Kingdom in the Epistles in 2 Thessalonians 1:5 and 2 Timothy 4:1.
3. Hyper-dispensationalist believe that the mysteries given to Paul are a different revelation from that give to Peter and the other Apostles. Only Paul’s writings are for the Church today (and not all of Hebrews, James, Peter, and John’s epistles.) However, Paul said that the church is built on the foundation of the Apostles (plural!) and not just himself in Ephesians 2:20. Paul also said the mysteries were revealed to the Apostles (plural!) and prophets in Ephesians 3:5. Peter saw no distinction 2 Peter 3:1-2, 15-16. Paul certainly had unique revelations about the Church, but it didn’t contradict the general epistles.
4. Hyper-dispensationalists believe the Gospel preached by Paul is different that the one taught by Peter. Peter preached salvation through the blood of Christ, by God’s free mercy, the new birth, and eternal security 1 Peter 1:2-4. Acts Chapter 15 plainly states that all the Apostles agreed on the Gospel. Paul said they all preached the same Gospel 1 Corinthians 15:11-14.
5. Some (not all) Hyper-dispensationalist believe that baptism and the Lord’s Supper were given before Paul received the Church Age mysteries and thus are not for today. Certainly, baptism and receiving the Lord’s Supper are not necessary for salvation. Salvation is by grace alone apart from any works. And yet, Paul did baptize some (1 Cor 1:13-17) and Philip and Peter baptized two Gentiles (Acts Chapters 8 and 10). So why be baptized? Baptism is supposedly an outward action based on an inward reality. Baptism is a testimony that the participant has trusted in Christ as Savior and they are identifying himself/herself by submitting themselves to baptism. Baptism is not necessary. I think it is a matter for the individual to decide if they want to be baptized or not. I don’t think one should actively preach/teach AGAINST baptism.
6. Finally, some Hyper-dispensationalist believe that there are different ways of salvation based on faith plus works, in the Old Testament and for Tribulation saints.
Well, that’s enough for now. I could go into more detail but that adequately covers what hyper-dispensationalist believe for our purposes here. I guess the biggest problem I have with hyper-dispensationalism is the implication that Jesus’ own teachings in the Gospels are not binding or applicable to the Church. I cannot imagine calling myself a Christian and in the next breath saying the words of my Savior are not applicable to me. That is “wrongly dividing” the word of truth.
Thanks to John for allowing us to use his comment as an article.
See all articles on Kingdom Now Theology / Dominionism
So, my wife came across this site after listening to some absolute satanic nonsense on Sid Roth about the gal and her son the car accident etc. That wrote a book about MANY false things! This is some of the very reasons OUR apostle Paul warned us this side of the cross, in 2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. This is the very ungodliness that leads people astray from the truth of God’s word “rightly divided”. 2 Timothy 2:15 In laying some background here. I was raised Catholic, went into charismatic, assemblies of God, word of faith you name it for YEARS! My wife is a PK raised by an assemblies of God preacher father, who came out of heretic Billy Grahams teachings! I rubbed elbows for YEARS with the Copelands, Jesse Duplantis, and the rest of his crew as well as people like Kim Clement, and so many others week after month after year!
5 years ago my wife and I began to learn how to study the bible CORRECTLY! It’s ALL written FOR US, BUT not all written TO US! No matter how much you’ve been told, THINK, claim whatever, you are NOT Israel, spiritual Israel nor have ANY of the promises of the fathers nor ANY covenants! Yeah I know this riled some up already. Don’t come back with that Jesus loves everybody, or I don’t have his love in my heart, or I’ve never experienced a move of the Holy Spirit. Sorry on ALL those accounts I’ve been up to my eyeballs in Satan’s lies and parlor tricks.
Just to say this that may shock many of you, but MOST are not even saved nor know HOW they are saved! Yeah I know, I’M not the judge, BUT, scripture is MY credentials the KJB. Such as,
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is the ONLY way anyone is saved this side of the cross.
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you THE GOSPEL which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
BY WHICH ALSO YE ARE SAVED, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Notice Paul’s words THE GOSPEL and BY WHICH YE ARE SAVED? Verses 3/4 is the FINISHED cross work of Christ! AND Ephesians 1:13 supports this,
Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Again, notice Paul’s words, GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION? as well, all you who falsely believe that you need to conjure up, invite in, ask to come around whatever when speaking of the Holy Spirit, well, IF you by belief, faith and trust the GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION, then scripture says we are SEALED with the Holy Spirit. He goes EVERYWHERE you go! The Bible is SIMPLE if you allow it it to be. So moving on…
Allow me to NOW begin by stating that obvious scriptural fact that MOST do NOT understand and is NOT obvious to MOST that Paul is our
1 Timothy 1:16 PATTERN. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
That his words are COMMANDMENTS of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
That men WILL be judged according to his gospel. ( not that he came up with it it was given to him by Jesus Christ.)
Romans 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
That should set the stage for my comments I hope, because if you in fact reject Paul, you are rejecting Jesus Christ himself!!
When studying the Bible we must not only be spiritual, we must be dispensational. We must know who is speaking, to whom and what are the circumstances. Otherwise we mix law/prophecy with grace/mystery. YES mystery. The mystery gospel given to Paul
Romans 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was KEPT SECRET since the world began,
God in His INFINITE WISDOM, kept the secret of salvation coming to the gentiles!!! Why?
Because,
1 Corinthians 2:7-8
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
I also want to say that ANY of our opinions, suppositions, experiences, so called miracles etc. mean NOTHING! It’s the TRUTH of God’s word, again, RIGHTLY DIVIDED! If you cannot explain or even answer anything regarding the various things the host of this site has exposed on this site, using SCRIPTURE, using SOUND DOCTRINE for THIS SIDE OF THE CROSS, then you are doing just that, giving your thoughts or opinions. If you STUDY “rightly divided” ( you’ll hear me say that a lot) 2 Timothy 2:15, you will see the stark differences of what Jesus and the 12 were teaching and the 12 were INSTRUCTED BEFORE Jesus went to the cross, and what He gave Paul for AFTER the cross. It’s black and white.
Some examples are:
Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
So WE were NOT even included until Israel fell and were temporarily blinded,
Romans 11:11
I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Then you have scripture such as Peter in Acts 2:22 addressing who? Oh yeah ISRAEL
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know
Also Acts 3:19 telling again who? ISRAEL to WHAT?
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
repent so their sins can be BLOTTED out when the times of refreshing come. (Jesus’ return) Their sins are NOT forgiven yet!
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
But wait that’s NOT what PAUL says,
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast
And that God no longer what???
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
and God did what?
Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you ALL trespasses;
So, our sins are FORGIVEN? Yet, multitudes ask forgiveness, ask Jesus in their heart, make him Lord of their lives, say the so called sinners prayer ALL to no avail when it is simple, belief, faith and trust in His death, burial and resurrection! Forgiveness and salvation are 2 DIFFERENT things! God did the forgiving at the cross, we GET the FREE gift of salvation by accepting and believing that!! SIMPLE!!
Anyway, I hope this posts and MANY will 2 Timothy 2:7 CONSIDER and not blow these things off or think you are smarter than or whatever. I don’t know everything but God’s word is infallible, inerrant BUT again I’ll say it we MUST 2 Timothy 2:15 in order to get UNDERSTANDING!!
Some GREAT resources in RIGHTLY DIVING from the KJB.
There is so much more to say, BUT this was long winded enough.
Good luck!! You never dying souls could lay in the balance!
Thank you Bobby!
OH and by the way Jeremae,
The ONLY way to be saved this side of the cross is belief and trust in the FINISHED cross work of Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
and Ephesians 1:13 seals us!!
Nothing more required. Nothing more to be added. We do NOT get water baptized this side of the cross. Nor Tithing I’ll ad a couple of links that will help you with this!
Don’t be fooled by these charlatans! They lie in wait to deceive! Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
– about water baptism
– again more on baptism
– about tithing
– again more about tithing
Water baptism and tithing were LAW issues NOT for us!!!
Bobby :hi:
Thank you, and I placed those links into the little headings themselves.
Thanks Bobby. Excellent articles! Paul said:
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” (1 Co 1:14-17).
Paul baptized a few people as we see from the above passage. I don’t know the answer. Perhaps you can help. Why did he baptize them with water?
I followed the link that Bobby gave on water baptism to http://www.graceambassadors.com and I find something troubling on their doctrine page. It states that God gave Paul a “new, distinct gospel.” Really? Another gospel? I’ll have to read more from that website (when I get the time) but it hints of a wrong teaching called hyper-dispensationalism. Hope I’m wrong.
Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:
awesome hopefully they help! This understanding was hard at first until my wife and I let the Bible be TRUE! Rightly dividing!
Tom (Discerning the World) wrote:
Hopefully these help. 🙂
This question is often asked in order to undermine mystery truths revealed to Paul. Do not let it trouble you. Paul himself explains why.
Baptism is Jewish, and Paul was a Hebrew of the Hebrews (Phil 3:5).
Baptisms were part of the law as a purification for sin, and Paul knew the ‘perfect manner of the law’ (Acts 22:3).
Baptism was part of Jewish conversion practices (even for Gentiles), and Paul was ‘zealous of the traditions of my fathers’ (Gal 1:14).
The Twelve apostles were sent to baptize unto repentance and remission in the name of Jesus Christ, and the Lord sent Paul to preach forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ (Acts 13:38-39; Acts 26:18).
Paul was sent to minister to Jews also, and when he did he “became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law” (1 Cor 9:20).
Most of the recorded baptisms in Paul’s early ministry were among Jews and proselytes (Acts 16:14-15; Acts 18:7-8).
Paul circumcised Timothy, according to the law, “because of the Jews which were in those quarters” (Acts 16:3). He took a vow in Jerusalem for the same reason (Acts 21:21-24).
Why Paul Stopped Baptizing
There are many reasons why Paul would baptize, but the more important question concerning the place of baptism for today would be “why would Paul stop baptizing?”, or “Why did he not baptize all?”
Paul says, “I thank God I baptized none of you “, save a few, and “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel” (1 Cor 1:17).
John the Baptist baptized all in his ministry to Israel. The Lord commanded his twelve apostles to teach the law and baptize all nations (Matt 28:19-20). Peter’s message was “repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ”.
When Paul says Christ sent me not to baptize, he is confessing that he was not following Matt 28 or Mark 16 in his ministry, nor was he baptizing under the same command given to Peter.
Paul was sent to dispense the gospel of the grace of God to Jew and Gentile alike (Acts 9:15; 1 Cor 12:13).
Though he baptized some, he did not baptize all, because he was sent to preach the glory of the cross, and the Lord told him baptism would make the the cross of none effect.
“For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” – 1 Cor 1:17
Paul did not keep the law for justification nor did he baptize to obey the Lord. He used his liberty to help minister the gospel of grace to both Jew and Gentile.
Paul was not sent to circumcise, but he circumcised Timothy in order to minister to Jews. He does not circumcise Titus so that he could minister with a Gentile (Gal 2:3). He would later write circumcision avails nothing (Gal 5:2-6).
He goes to Jerusalem to minister to his kinsmen (Rom 15:27). He observes Pentecost to minister to his kinsmen (Acts 20:16). Yet, he teaches that one day is not above another and to boast in Christ not observation of days (Gal 4:9-11; Col 2:16).
He did not eat certain meats to minister to his kinsmen (1 Cor 8:13). Yet, he ate with Gentiles and taught that every creature is good to eat (Gal 2:12; 1 Tim 4:4).
He baptized Crispus (the chief ruler of the synagogue) in the name of the Lord Jesus, but he was glad not to baptize others that the Corinthians would know that the power of God unto salvation is in the gospel of Christ, and not in the baptisms of Peter, Apollos, or Paul (1 Cor 1:12-14).
He baptized some, and did not baptize others. In every case it was for the sake of the gospel of grace (1 Cor 9:22-23).
What Paul Knew
Paul knew the law, the traditions of Israel, and the ministry of the Twelve when he said that Peter, James, and John “added nothing” to him (Gal 2:6).
But Paul knew something those Jewish Baptists did not.
The Lord revealed to him the mystery of the one baptism that by one Spirit believers are identified as one body of Christ (Eph 4:4-6, 1 Cor 12:13). The Lord himself separated Paul to preach this mystery of Christ.
He was sent to preach the gospel to Jews and Gentiles, and he became all things to all men so as to save some with his dispensation of the gospel (1 Cor 9:17-23).
Paul spends his whole ministry making all men see the fellowship of this mystery, and doesn’t give a single instruction about water baptism. It was not required.
In every epistle he rages against the rudiments of the world, worldly ordinances, weak and beggarly elements, the works of the law, and traditions of men. Paul was not persecuted for water baptizing, he was in prison for what he said that replaced it (Eph 6:19-20).
Why did Paul baptize? He was a Jew ministering the Lord Jesus Christ to Jews. Baptism was a part of Jewish conversion practice. He ministered to Jews who wanted to convert. Why wouldn’t he?
Why did Paul stop baptizing?
Paul was sent to Gentiles with a gospel of grace without works, Paul stopped ministering to Jews, the Lord sent Paul not to baptize, and the preaching of the cross makes water baptism of none effect.
Yes, Paul did baptize some into water in his early ministry. In fact, Paul himself was water baptized by Ananias in Acts 9:18. Paul also circumcised Timothy (Acts 16:3), performed vows and head shavings (Acts 18:18), kept feasts (Acts 18:21), and even raised a man from the dead (Acts 20:10).
What we know is that water baptism did not begin at Paul. It had been in operation since the Mosaic Law and during Jesus’ earthly ministry and through Pentecost.
Secondly, Paul did not add anything to water baptism in meaning or in symbolism (see question on Romans 6:3-4).
Thirdly, Paul was given a dispensation of God that was ‘kept secret since the world began’ and so could not be the same message associated with water baptism (Rom 16:25, 1 Cor 9:17, Gal 1:11-12).
Lastly, Paul was eventually instructed by Christ upon further revelation not to baptize as is evident from 1 Corinthians 1:17.
“For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” – 1 Corinthians 1:17
Paul’s Multiple Revelations
It would be wrong to think that Paul received his dispensational information all at one appearance of Christ. At the very time of Paul’s first appearance Jesus left the door open to further revelations and instructions:
“…And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.” – Acts 9:6
Also, in 2 Corinthians 12:1 Paul declares that he “WILL COME to visions and revelations of the Lord.”
Six verses later he mentions that he has already received an ‘abundance of the revelations’ (2 Cor 12:7).
In Paul’s retelling of his conversion on the road to Damascus in Acts 9, he describes Jesus’ purpose for him in containing multiple revelations:
“But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, AND OF THOSE THINGS IN THE WHICH I WILL APPEAR UNTO THEE;” [emphasis added] – Acts 26:16
It is evident that Paul received multiple revelations of further instructions for this dispensation as his ministry progressed.
Paul and the Corinthians
It was in Acts 18:8 that Paul was ministering in Corinth and Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue and was baptized by Paul.
“And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized. ” – Acts 18:8
That this baptism was water baptism is evident from Paul’s discussion of the event in 1 Corinthians 1.
Nevertheless, the next verse in Acts 18 describes that right after this joyous occasion of many in Corinth believing Jesus appears to Paul.
“Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision…” – Acts 18:9
It has already been established that Jesus spoke to Paul often in revelations for further instruction and encouragement. In this revelation, no mention of water baptism is recorded.
However, that Jesus spoke to Paul about water baptism after Acts 18 is evident from the letter Paul wrote later to the very Corinthians that were baptized.
“I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. For CHRIST SENT ME NOT TO BAPTIZE, BUT TO PREACH THE GOSPEL: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. ” [emphasis added] – 1 Corinthians 1:14-17
Paul spent a year and a half teaching the Corinthians face to face and then later writes them thanking God that he did not baptize any of them except Crispus and Gaius and a few others.
Jesus’ Further Revelations
Paul states that he was sent not to baptize but to preach the gospel. It is then obvious that the gospel that Jesus told Paul to preach did NOT contain baptism.
This is contrary to the gospel of the kingdom taught by John the Baptist, Jesus (on earth), and Peter at Pentecost which all contained water baptism for the remission of sins.
Rather, Paul’s gospel was without water baptism but a spiritual baptism into Christ (1 Cor 12:13, Rom 6:3-4).
Why then did Paul baptize the Corinthians? The most plausible explanation is that it was done in ignorance which was subsequently remedied by further revelation and instructions of Jesus Christ about the clarity of his gospel.
What we can know now reading back through Paul’s experience with the Corinthians that just as Paul was not sent to baptize but to preach the gospel, so we are sent as followers of Paul.
“Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. ” – 1 Corinthians 11:1
By the way, Thank YOU tom!
Dear John :hi:
What is the difference between dispensationalism and hyper-dispensationalism? I am confused by this…
As far as I am aware and I might to wrong, hyper-dispensationalists don’t believe in communion as remembering Christ Jesus through breaking bread and drinking wine/grape juice.
Is this ‘new, distinct gospel’ that Paul and the other Apostles taught ie., the ‘gospel of grace’ not the very same gospel you and I believe in this dispensation of grace for the church, ie. the Bride of Christ? 🙂
[Edited by DTW: Tom has answered the question regarding dispensationalism and jumping right overboard into shark waters with hyper-dispensationalism]
Hi Boddy
Makes perfect sense regarding baptism.
Hi Deborah: I’ll get back with you in a couple of days. It’s been really busy at work (I’m self-employed and I have a very demanding boss 😀 . Didn’t want you to think I was ignoring you. John
Bobby Faulkner wrote:
I agree that true baptism is a spiritual one. However to say that it was “Paul’s Gospel” can, and in point of fact has already, confused many Christians to believe that there are two gospels – one which John the Baptist preached to the Jews, and the other which Paul preached to the Gentiles. The Hebrew Roots movement among Christians seems to use this as an argument against Paul who they claim did not preach the Gospel but another gospel. Bear in mind that the Law was given to the Jews as a shadow of things to come, and primarily as a “schoolmaster” to bring the Jews unto Christ.
As such, one may infer that John the Baptist’s water baptism was merely a “schoolmaster” unto repentance, reminding the Jews that entrance into God’s Millennium Kingdom on earth, which was promised to the Jews (Luke 1:30-33), required repentance (a change of mind). Hence his cry in the wilderness, “And Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2). Every Jew knew that their promised Messiah would establish his Kingdom on earth in their behalf (Deuteronomy 30:1-10). Jesus taught the Jews of this gathering in Matthew 24:31). He could not at that time declare to the Jews, “Repent and believe the Gospel” because it hadn’t been fully disclosed as it would be on the Day of Pentecost. It is interesting to note that John the Baptist did not say “Repent and be baptized” because, as you said, baptism in water is Jewish and every Jew knew that baptism in water was inexorably related to repentance. That’s why John the Baptist angrily told the Scribes and Pharisees, “But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?” (Matthew 3:7), because he knew they had no intention to repent. He also rebuked them for their belief that they had Abraham as their father and were, therefore, righteous and acceptable to the Lord. Hence his robust rebuke, “And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.” (Matthew 3:9).
The Gospel (singular) of redemption is and everlasting and unchangeable Gospel (Rev. 14:6). It has and never will change because it has always been and always will be salvation through faith alone in God’s Gospel embedded in the work of Christ Jesus on the cross, his resurrection, his ascension and his Parousia. Abraham was a gentile when he got saved 430 years prior to the giving of the Law (Galatians 3:17). However, in order for “salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22) to be fulfilled in Jesus Christ, God had to choose and separate a people unto Himself, make a covenant with them, give them his commandments, and promise them that a King and Messiah would come from them to die on a cross, not only for their own sins, but for that of the entire world.
I must in all humility differ from your statement: “Paul states that he was sent not to baptize but to preach the gospel. It is then obvious that the gospel that Jesus told Paul to preach did NOT contain baptism. This is contrary to the gospel of the kingdom taught by John the Baptist, Jesus (on earth), and Peter at Pentecost which all contained water baptism for the remission of sins.”
I would like to suggest that we rather call Paul’s peaching of the Gospel the fulfilment of John the Baptist’s Kingdom-water-baptism prophecy (Matthew 3:11). It is true, as I suggested earlier, that John the Baptist’s baptism with water was a sign of repentance unto receiving Him as their King and Messiah of their promised Kingdom. To illustrate how even Jesus’ disciples misunderstood their Master’s teaching on baptism, I would like to refer you to Matthew 20:22 when the mother of James and John asked Jesus to grant her two sons the best place in his Kingdom. “But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, ‘We are able.’” They were as ready and able to be baptized with his baptism as much as Peter was when he said he would never deny him, or as much as they all were when they were offended and forsook Him when He was crucified (Matthew 26:31). Jesus distinctly told them that they did not understand what they were asking for, and then promptly also said “Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:” (Matthew 20:23). What was He referring to?
He could only have been referring to Pentecost when the disciples and those in the upper room were all filled (baptized) with the Holy Spirit. It was then, at that moment, when they were baptized into the Body of Christ and which, may I add, gave them the power to fearlessly proclaim the Gospel and drink the same cup of persecution and suffering when some of them were martyred and crucified. I put it to you that water baptism cannot in any which way possible grant Jesus’ followers this kind of readiness to die for Him. It is for this reason that I cannot agree with your statement, “Paul states that he was sent not to baptize but to preach the gospel. It is then obvious that the gospel that Jesus told Paul to preach did NOT contain baptism. This is contrary to the gospel of the kingdom taught by John the Baptist, Jesus (on earth), and Peter at Pentecost which all contained water baptism for the remission of sins.”
There were not only Jews present on the Day of Pentecost. Many Gentiles were gathered there too. If Peter and his fellow disciples baptized them with water on that day, why did they also baptize believing Gentiles when it was only meant for Jews? The Gospel Paul preached on baptism was the one and same baptism that started on the Day of Pentecost.
Water baptism cannot possibly achieve this. Therefore, when Peter said “. . . and be baptized everyone of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins . . .” he did not mean “Come ye all so that we may baptize you with water.” He referred to the baptism of which John the Baptist spoke as the true baptism unto repentance and faith when he said,
I’m a little confused. What do you mean by “This is contrary to the gospel of the kingdom taught by John the Baptist, Jesus (on earth) . . .”?
Deborah
So great to hear!! It IS hard BUT if people will just read the Bible in context, know who is speaking, to whom, and what are the circumstances, THEY TOO would be hit by a ton of bricks!! 🙂
Thank you for allowing me to share on your site!!
It’s a battle for souls!
[Edited by DTW: Sorry Bobby, just removing links until we clear up what “grace ambassadors” really teaches regarding classic dispensationalism vs hyper-dispensationalism (Apostle Paul preaching ‘another’ gospel to what the other apostles taught) issue.]
Tom said
Ahhhhhhh now I understand… hyper vs non hyper. Thanks Tom! Wow, that’s quite an eye opener… I never knew that and to think I almost signed up for a study course and asked Tom to vouch for me. Now I see why Tom was hesitant, they were hyper-dispensational and I didn’t realise this – why? Because I didn’t look close enough at what they preached; it looked so biblical on the outside but inside it is not so biblical.
Hi John :friends:
LOL, no worries, but I think Tom has answered the question. Saved you oooooooooodles of time!
Bobby Faulkner wrote:
Well that’s OK it’s YOUR site. IF in fact you are using made up words such as HYPER dispensationalism as a negative. I’m sorry to hear that. IF, you are saying Paul preached another gospel meaning it is wrong, again, I am sorry for that. IF, I am misunderstanding your thoughts on this, well I’ll just say this, consider, you said yourself that you didn’t understand water baptism wasn’t for the church today. If in fact you were incorrect about that, could you also be incorrect about a viewpoint of Paul? Part of the issue is all these so called biblical scholars out there when we simply have the Bible in plain simple English. WORDS mean something, ESPECIALLY the words of scripture.
Paul’s gospel (not that he wrote it it was given by revelation from Jesus himself), IS “another gospel” NOT in the way Paul himself speaks of another,
Galatians 1:6-7
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
It is different than what Jesus and the 12 taught BEFORE the cross.
What Jesus taught himself and the 12 is starkly different than what he gave Paul. Doing as we are instructed scripture tells us to compare,
1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual
So, IF we do just that COMPARE then we can SEE the differences.
there are MANY scriptures to see that what Peter said for example vs Paul are totally different,
Peter,
Acts 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath SPOKEN by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Paul,
Romans 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was KEPT SECRET since the world began
black and white difference! Even consider MANY people’s go to scripture of John 3:16 at that point Jesus hadn’t even gone to the cross! AND, since they didn’t understand it anyway, why is it MULTITUDES quote it as a “salvation” scripture? Think about that one. Also, comparing scripture such as Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for MANY. vs 2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for ALL, then were all dead:
The 12 didn’t even understand the cross,
Luke 18:33-34
And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
Peter wanted to stop Jesus,
Mark 8:31-33
And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.
But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
Paul on the other hand,
1 Corinthians 2:7-8
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Galatians 6:14
But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Paul’s gospel IS the only gospel for ALL this side of the cross.
Is is evident from even a cursory reading of scripture God has “dispensed” different instructions throughout time.
The canon is closed and WE are the recipients of his LAST instructions!
Peter
Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
Paul,
Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
and it goes on and on, I could provide a boat load of scripture comparisons to PROVE THROUGH SCRIPTURE the vast differences between BEFORE the cross and AFTER.
Peter and Paul never taught the same gospel. When Peter taught the kingdom gospel at Pentecost, Saul was rejecting the Messiah. When Paul preached the gospel of the grace of God, Peter’s gospel of the kingdom to Israel was limited to the circumcision.
This not about Acts 2, Acts 28, mid Acts or whatever, it’s about letting God be true and every man a liar Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
and that RIGHTLY DIVIDED, 2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
None of ANY so called scholars, ecumenical geniuses, fellows with DR in front of their names and 3 letters in back of their names make ANY difference to me, UNLESS they are preaching the MYSTERY GOSPEL given to Paul without adding to or taking away. Most don’t even know they are saved through belief in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4!!!
We are not Israel, spiritual Israel and although scripture tells us 2 Timothy 3:16 ALL scripture is,
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
We MUST know where WE belong. We are NOT to keep ANY of Israel’s law program. The law was only ever given anyway to expose sin.
The church the body of Christ and OUR instructions to the church and OUR salvation doctrine is ONLY found in Paul’s epistles. Romans 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
We must ALL be fully persuaded on our own.
Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
John wrote:
Paul WAS given a DIFFERENT and DISTINCT gospel. All you have to do is compare verses with verses what Jesus and the 12 were taught and given BEFORE the cross and what Jesus gave Paul AFTER the cross. I’d steer clear of made up words like hyper dispensationalism.
There are many gospels in the Bible I find it strange that people have difficulty understanding Paul was given one different from the 12. THEY were sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Paul to the gentiles. Anyway study it out!
Dear Bobby :hi:
Hey :heart: hold yer horsies there will ya, and just calm down a little, we are not arguing with you we are trying to understand ok?
I came up with a little saying yesterday while taking to someone; “Debate does not equate to hate ®”
Sorry Darlene. That’s one of the reasons I often dislike written communication especially when it comes to discussing the Bible. My intent wasn’t as harsh as it seemed. Sometimes the guard goes up because literally about 98% of the time, people reject any conversation when it comes from Paul exclusively, or if it is outside of what denominations, popular belief and tradition has taught them so, it seems to always be an uphill battle when you start proclaiming Paul is OUR apostle for ALL this side of the cross, his gospel has exclusive instructions for the church the body of Christ (especially Ephesians), and OUR salvation doctrine which is NOT found in Matthew-John or anywhere else! Folks get riled up about that, and because my wife and I are so passionate about the truth “rightly divided” (2 Timothy 2:15) it often causes people to shut down to CONSIDERING as Paul states in 2 Timothy 2:7 and they automatically have their ‘go to’ scriptures to TRY to dispel Paul’s gospel or they simply become contextual critics.
It was extremely difficult at first to come to the realization that MOST are taught, including us at one time, Bible INCORRECTLY. When we compare verses with verses, it becomes starkly clear that there ARE differences in what Jesus taught, what he taught the 12 and THEIR instructions BEFORE the finished cross work and what Jesus gave exclusively to Paul AFTER the finished cross work.
I think I sited some scripture examples previously about Peter vs Paul. Some others are James vs Paul.
such as,
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (LAW)
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone (Law/works)
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead ( again, works)
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (works again)
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. ( and AGAIN, faith with WORKS=Israel’s law)
Paul on the other hand:
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (NO works NO law)
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. ( again, NO WORKS)
Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. ( FAITH alone NO works)
Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. ( again, NO works)
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. ( and AGAIN, NO works)
This goes on and on in comparing scripture with scripture in MANY other areas not just about works. Once we realized how we had missed these things, they started to jump off the pages!!! It’s awesome to have TRUTH from God’s written word “rightly divided”, rather than tradition, popular belief, etc. The house of cards falls, the bubble bursts, the box we got put in collapses, and we become CRITICAL thinkers! Those words that are often used about hyper, ultra dispensationalists are troubling to say the least. If scripture “rightly divided” bares out what we are studying isn’t that the important thing? When we see for ourselves scriptures that contradict that should be an indicator differences in INSTRUCTIONS to us. It’s not so hard once we really study. So many including us at one time like to say oh I read the Bible, they know some scriptures, can recite/parrot what they were taught by momma said daddy said preacher said, all the while NOT having UNDERSTANDING!! WE were there we get it! It’s also hard sometimes because we always want to DO something, be involved, help God out.
So, what can tend to take place is, plucking out verses that meet OUR expectations, OUR agendas, what we THINK or WANT God to be which can be a recipe for disaster.
We when take in most cases YEARS of what a well meaning preacher has taught us and we discover it’s WRONG via our OWN study, that is startling. Then couple that with the wolves out there and viola, we are confused and in mixed up doctrine (MUD). Law with Grace. Prophecy with mystery. ALL mixed together. That’s why we say, all of the Bible is written FOR us, BUT, it’s NOT all written TO us!
Satan is a MASTER at deceiving for millennia now. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. He started in the garden twisting what God INSTRUCTED Adam and Eve and he has gotten progressively MUCH better at it to present date! Satan could care less if people sit and listen to Joel Osteen, Billy Graham, Paula White, Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland etc. ALL the WRONG doctrine they teach as well as stuff they lie and make up, fits right in with what Satan wants! CONFUSION and souls going to hell THINKING they are saved!!
ANYTHING I say here and have said I CAN support with scripture again, “rightly divided” THAT is key, RIGHTLY DIVIDING!
When people say (not you), what about this, what about that, the Bible says, Jesus said, well, the Bible is a BIG BOOK. It says MANY things. Jesus said MANY things during HIS earthly ministry and HIS gospel of the KINGDOM on earth, and the gospel of the grace of God He gave Paul ( Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: ) HE gave this gospel to Paul and NO OTHER.
People were IN CHRIST BEFORE Paul’s gospel, just in different ways. Such as the Little flock, the lost sheep of the house of Israel through works, law keeping and believing IN HIS NAME since he had NOT gone to the cross and you find NO mention of the cross in Matthew-John. Again,
They didn’t understand it.
Luke 18: 32-34 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
AND THEY UNDERSTOOD NONE OF THESE THINGS: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
If we are doctrinal we MUST also for TRUTH be DISPENSATIONAL!
This isn’t ( not saying YOU say this) about Richard Jordan, Stam, or ANY other. It’s about what GOD has said vs what WE believe., and that RIGHTLY DIVIDED.
So, all that said, no hate here. Just a passion for the truth. I hope I have provided some good information to follow up and study.
Thanks again, for the voice here on your site.
Bobby
Hi Deborah, thanks for your patience. Been busy at work, but I do want to address the issue of hyper-dispensationalism since it has caught your attention and seemingly ruffled some feathers.
[Edited by DTW – John’s comment turned into article above, thanks John!]
PS. I do not want anyone to infer my critique as a personal attack. My comments are not intended as such. However, we should test every teaching against Scripture. None of us are beyond being deceived.
I do not know how that came out DARLENE instead of Deborah!! BIG typo. MY BAD!
Yes…I’ve been called many names but never Darlene :laugh: That was funny though.
Hi John
Thanks for the summarized version, I agree with you on the points you mention from a D view and not a HD view (sounds like were talking about the TVs :giggle: ).
Baptism can most certainly be a persons own choice, however I have found that if you tell someone it’s ok not the be baptised (dunked in water) those who believe in water baptism come on really strong and tell you that you are sinning if you don’t get baptised in water.
So us few who don’t see water baptism as necessary, we don’t get our tail feathers all in a knot about this – let it be your choice, but I don’t see why I have to be baptised twice 😉
And another question we must ask is where does one go to be baptised in this day an age? Calvinist church, Pentecostal church, Methodist church? Charismatic Catholic church? Hmmm. Thousands of people are baptised on a daily basis across the world under false religions, they are not born again (spiritually baptised by the Holy Spirit) but they surely did followed God’s commandment to be water baptised and because of that, they believe they are saved.
I actually want to move these comments to an appropriate article, because this is not the article to do it under. Can I please use your comment John as an article and then I’ll move all these comments under that new article?
I’ll move comments tomorrow and let ya’all know via email with link to where I’ve moved them too.
Bobby
Of those points John mentioned can you please tell us what you believe to be true? Or not true. Please go point by point, if you don’t mind.
It’s very easy to throw the words ‘rightly dividing’ the Word of God all over the place. Anyone from a Calvinist, to a tongue talking Pentecostal can say that (and probably say it in tongues too :laugh: )… it’s testing to see if what’s being said is true, that’s where the action of rightly dividing the Word of God takes place.
So shall we test?
Hi Bobby.
Was Abraham a Jew or a Gentile when he believed and God declared him righteous?
Tom (Discerning the World) wrote:
Better we let SCRIPTURE tell the tale.
In Genesis 15:6 God declared a man righteous without any evidence, proof, law, work, obedience, or sign that he would indeed be righteous.
“[Abraham] believed in the LORD; and [God] counted it to him for righteousness.” – Genesis 15:6
Abraham was ignorant about how God would do this. There was no law to obey, no work to perform, nothing for him to glory in. God intentionally left him ignorant about it (1 Cor 2:8-9).
Yet, it was clear that God’s statement was with gracious provision. How could God remain holy while declaring sinners like Abraham righteous? Something must be done.
Unknown to Abraham, Christ had to die to validate God’s statement. Christ could impute to faithful Abraham his righteousness, but he would not die for hundreds of years. Abraham was ignorant to all of this yet to be revealed mystery.
Until the time was fulfilled, God’s justification of Abraham was just a statement of promise, with its confirmation wrapped up in a hidden purpose to send Christ to die and resurrect.
Abraham could only trust God, and God never fails to keep a promise.
Every law abiding Jew knows of faithful Abraham, the father of Israel. Not one would place themselves above Abraham in greatness of faith towards God.
“Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead?” – John 8:53
Yet, if Christ had not died then the promise of righteousness made to Abraham was vain. If Christ had not resurrected then God’s statement of counting Abraham righteous without works was hollow.
For, on what basis was it then made? Then, how could a holy God say such a thing?
Abraham needed the death and resurrection of Jesus to be declared righteous by faith, and so do we who are saved by grace alone through faith alone.
If Christ had not died and resurrected then the promise of righteousness imputed to us is also vain.
“And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.” – 1 Cor 15:17
Without the death, burial, and resurrection, every man would be forever condemned in his sins along with Abraham.
The preaching of the cross declares how every man could be justified by his faith only.
That no one knew this mystery until it was first revealed to Paul explains why in the past righteousness by faith without works was unacceptable.
Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:
I tried to put my comments in and got a sucuri error??? Not sure what that is
[Edited by Deborah: Not sure why that happened…if it happens again please snapshot your screen and email the error to me so I can see what’s going on and contact Sucuri if need be.]
I understand what you are saying but, it’s really not what I believe for answers it’s what does scripture say “rightly divided”. By the way, the instruction of that came from Paul 2 Timothy 2:15 so, whether Calvinists or anyone else use it incorrectly is not my concern. What the instruction represents is dividing truth from truth not truth from fiction. The whole Bible is true from cover to cover. There are truths BEFORE the cross, and truth AFTER the cross. THAT, is why we all need to compare spiritual things with spiritual RIGHTLY. 1 Corinthians 2:13
I sited scripture pretty clearly where scripture proves the gospel BEFORE the cross is absolutely different from AFTER given to Paul. Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to MY GOSPEL, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was KEPT SECRET since the world began,
Ephesians 3:2 Colossians 1:25
Peter is VERY clear on what HE states and was instructed,
Acts 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath SPOKEN BY THE MOUTH OF ALL HIS HOLY PROPHETS SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN.
Spoken by and kept secret sound different because they are different.
To be continued. For some reason I got an error message so I will send my comments in sections. SORRY!
Also, Peter, Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you IN THE NAME of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. NO CROSS mentioned here.
Peter again, Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins MAY BE BLOTTED OUT, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
How about Matthew 12:31-32, Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN unto men.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN HIM, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
How about 1 John 1:9 . IF WE CONFESS OUR SINS, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, NEITHER WILL YOUR FATHER FORGIVE YOUR TRESPASSES
Vastly different from Paul,
Colossians 2:13-14 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having FORGIVEN YOU ALL TRESPASSES;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, NOT IMPUTING THEIR TRESPASSES unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. This is part 2 of my comments. ( from your request about John’s points.)
AUDIENCE and CONTEXT. Let me say it again, AUDIENCE and CONTEXT. Is CRUCIAL for understanding God’s DIFFERENT dispensations. Which by the way you probably know is simply instructions, house rules if you will.
AND, I need to address this is this way, John mentions again with the word hyper Disp. HD’S Find that word in the Bible. That is a man made word and definition. I believe the word dispensation ( a dispensing of instructions) is mentioned 4 times. 1 Cor., twice in Ephesians and once in Colossians. So to categorize someone based on what they believe to be God’s instructions as hyper or ultra to me seems derogatory. John’s quote: I cannot imagine calling myself a Christian and in the next breath saying the words of my Savior are not applicable to me. That is “wrongly dividing” the word of truth. I say that Misses the mark GREATLY since Jesus’ words are Paul’s 13 epistles.
1 Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD.
How about 1 Timothy 1:16
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, THAT IN ME FIRST Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, FOR A PATTERN to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting
What were Jesus and the 12 not capable or sufficient enough? Why was Paul needed to dispense NEW information? The canon could have been closed and no need for Paul’s being saved and writing 13 epistles. It WAS necessary to God who BEFORE THE WORLD had this master plan to put in action. 1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained BEFORE THE WORLD unto our glory: 2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN, Which he kept secret until Paul, 1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Also Luke 18:32-34 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken. The 12 didn’t understand the cross!
part 3 of my comments
To me, you cannot call yourself as John does a dispensationalist and say” I believe that Biblical history is divided by God into dispensations to which God has allotted distinctive administrative principles.” then turn around and NOT see the dispensation, that IS DIFFERENT given to Paul. Comparing scripture shows us that.
How about Jesus himself stating, Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. or John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. or Matthew 10:5-6 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel
Different instructions. Different dispensation. ALL had to go through Israel to be saved either by becoming a Jew or blessing them before the cross. Israel had commands to believe IN HIS NAME, be baptized (water), and sell everything they owned. Again, audience and context is important.
No longer are WE under any type of system that Israel was. They were temporarily BLINDED Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall SALVATION is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. They and their program was set aside until ‘ages to come’. AFTER we are caught up. 1 Thessalonians 4:17
The fact that Paul for a time preached to Hebrews is not a standard to set that he wasn’t given a different gospel.
MANY unfortunately like to use this as a reason Paul had the same gospel as the 12.
“Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.” – Acts 28:31
This verse is used as popular objection to mid-Acts right division, but it is not a very good one.
Remember Paul was a Roman citizen and the Hebrew of Hebrews he new the law better than most!
If you get a new job, does that mean you have forgotten everything you learned at your old job?
In your new job, do you fail to read, write, and do math, because you learned those skills in primary school, and not at your new job?
If your new job is in the same company, and under the same supervision as your old job, does that mean your new job is not new at all?
A new dispensation was given to Paul, but it does not mean everything Paul spoke or taught was new.
He uses the word “kingdom” throughout his epistles both during Acts and in his post-Acts epistles (to the dismay of the Acts 28ers). He mentions the word “kingdom” in his epistles more often than Peter, James, and John do in their epistles combined (13 vs 11, excluding Acts).
The mystery of God’s will revealed to Paul how all things would be gathered together in one in Christ (Ephesians 1:10). This was a mystery before Paul, but describes how God will reign in the fullness of times. God had revealed his purpose for the earth, but had never spoken about the things or positions in heavenly places belonging to the church.
When Paul mentions the kingdom, it is always in the future tense. This means the idea of a present kingdom of God come on earth is false. The kingdom of God is waiting for God to establish it in heaven and earth.
The gospel of the kingdom is the proclamation that the kingdom of God is at hand, or is here. Paul did not teach this gospel, knowing that the revelation of the mystery delays the coming of this kingdom to the future. He taught the reign of grace and the gospel of the grace of God. The gospel of the kingdom, and preaching the postponement of the kingdom is different.
Paul explained this delay causing interruption in the gospel of the kingdom. Peter acknowledges Paul’s explanation of the postponement of the kingdom, and that Christ is no longer sending the twelve to preach the gospel of the kingdom (2 Pet 3:15).
Paul taught the kingdom of God, but he did not teach the kingdom now.
Paul taught the kingdom of God, but he did not teach that the church usurps Israel’s covenants and promises.
Paul taught the kingdom of God, but he did not preach the gospel of the kingdom. He preached the gospel of the grace of God. They are different.
Paul taught the kingdom of God, but he did not preach the same message as Peter and the twelve. The difference is not found in what is the same.
Paul taught the kingdom of God, but he did not offer David’s earthly kingdom to Israel, nor to Gentiles. The kingdom of God can refer to dominions in heavenly places (Col 1:16).
Paul taught the kingdom of God in the context of the revelation of the mystery of Jesus Christ (Rom 16:25).
We know this because Paul did not only write about the kingdom of God, but also about a mystery of Christ (Eph 3:2-6).
If ANYONE cannot see through scripture the stark differences between Jesus’ teaching BEFORE the cross and Jesus’ teaching AFTER the cross through Paul, they do not want to.
So, I’ve said a LOT here. Bottom line for me is, MY OPINIONS, or MY BELIEFS do not matter unless they are based on SCRIPTURE rightly divided, studied and spoken in CONTEXT that where the eternal value is. We MUST know who is speaking, to whom, and what are the circumstances, otherwise we remain lost, confused and most likely frustrated by denominations, popular beliefs, traditions etc. Again, DEBORAH (got it right) 🙂 thank you for the voice here. and John, just as you said about YOUR comments, my statements according to scripture here are not an indictment against anyone personally. That said, I will NEVER compromise the 2 Timothy 2:7 understanding the Lord has given me and my wife and my brethren who may be considered hyper dispensationalists, that our apostle Paul, was given DIFFERENT instructions, and we are saved a different way than BEFORE the cross.
That’s why it’s called being a WORKMAN. This takes work to understand correctly!
Last of my comments. Sorry maybe too many words???
Bobby F. From what I see, your understanding of the new testament writers seem to be contradicting each other, right? I would have to disagree in that you are simply misappropriating the context of what is truly being said. What Paul was teaching is exactly the same as the other writers. The error usually comes when the writers, who ever they are, are given greater authority than Yeshua. Everything Yeshua taught is the same before and after His death and resurrection. The Law(Torah-instructions) didn’t change because Yeshua died. The keeping of the Law was never about Salvation, but obedience out of love. So the whole law is done away with its been fulfilled doctrine is very dangerous and it cause us to assert things in the context and by so doing we twist the Scriptures to our own destruction. Once we see clearly and understand the players involved -the whos who and the whats what – we see that they are all in agreement.
And to Tom: Abraham was never a Jew but Yes he was of the nations when called out by Yehovah. But because he believed: that is his cross-over moment(salvation). He became a Hebrew. If you belong to the Kingdom your not a gentile anymore. If you consider yourself a gentile you need to repent and believe and join team Israel.
Hope you don’t mind me jumping in the conversation, Shalom
Hi Jason,
I often ask questions to see where paople are REALLY comning from. Jesus did the same. Of course Abraham was a Gentile befdore he became a Hebrew.
Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
(Gal 3:15-18).
Bobby believes that Abraham never had a clue how to be saved, or rather, that Jesus would be crucified for his sins.
He wrote:
In Genesis 15:6 God declared a man righteous without any evidence, proof, law, work, obedience, or sign that he would indeed be righteous.
“[Abraham] believed in the LORD; and [God] counted it to him for righteousness.” – Genesis 15:6
Abraham was ignorant about how God would do this. There was no law to obey, no work to perform, nothing for him to glory in. God intentionally left him ignorant about it (1 Cor 2:8-9).
If we are all children of Abraham (Galatians 3:7) then we all must have the same Gospel (including Peter, James, John and trhe rest of the apostlers AND Paul of Tarsus).
I must say, I am very concerned about Bobby.
All the books of the bible preach the exact same message. Paul was teaching the exact same thing that all the other disciples preached, but at certain times there were things the other disciples didn’t quite understand.
Paul received revelation the others didn’t Paul also said the mysteries were revealed to the all the other Apostles. And all disciples/Apostles would have understood and believed the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Dfferent dispensations, but the gospel (even though some did not understand it at the time) all lead too and meant the exact same thing. To say that the other disciples did not understand the meaning of the cross and still to this day don’t means no Jew can come to salvation and be born again into the Bride of Christ.
Jews are children of Abraham, Gentiles (who are born again) become spiritual children of Abraham, Gentiles are spiritual descendants through receiving the faith of Abraham. Gentiles are not Jews and Jews are not Gentiles, in this dispensation (those who are saved) we all are the Bride of Christ and we are all inheritants of the promised land.
Galatians 3:29 “And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Romans 4:13 “For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.”
And this land goes far beyond just physical land, a physical inheritance, but ALSO an ETERNAL INHERITANCE which is bestowed on ALL, Gentile and Jew alike (in this church dispensation) on those who have become his spiritual descendants through receiving the faith of Abraham.
However, I say it again, Gentiles are gentiles, Jews are Jews, some Gentiles who become Christian take it too far and land up in the Hebrew Roots movement (Pentecostals, NAR etc) where they think they now have to take on the customs of Jews (and follow people like Jonathan Cahn and Jacob Prasch etc) and so on and so forth and speak like them, behave like them, dance like them, pray like them. And now think they too have to move to Israel to physically take the land, or America is now Israel, or we are part of the lost tribes of Israel like a lot of white South African ‘Christian’ people think, etc, etc, etc. This is not right, this is not biblical, this falls under the title of replacement theology.
Bobby, you have come out of the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement, and jumped right overboard, you missed the ‘x marks the spot’ for rightly dividing the Word of God and now you are now wayyyyy on the other side, swim back this way Bobby.
Ahhh to many words in the comment me thinks…that’s why you’re getting the error.
Al righty, all comments have been moved across to this article. What a mission, but done :nod:
First off I am not mad, angry or anything else to get that out of the way. NO my feathers are not ruffled John.
So, after I spent HOURS and HOURS of research and citing scripture that after years I understand now after DEEP STUDY ( rightly divided whether YOU like that term or not) I get reduced to coming out of ( key words CAME OUT OF YEARS AGO) the charismatic, word of faith movements to I went completely overboard and swim back? WOW Talk about judging INCORRECTLY!!! Then I have Tom’s kudos about articles I sent ( just for him to later say for him he’s worried about me because of what SCRIPTURE says about Abraham and that Peter and the 12 had the SAME gospel as Paul which is false) then, to have this guy John send an article that DIFFERS from what I offered from scripture RIGHTLY DIVIDED and you make HIS commentary the end all be all, and the fact you claimed you were trying to understand rather than argue but it actually appears you already had your mind made up ( which I’m not surprised NOW that I see YOU think we are the bride of Christ among a few other wrong scriptural understandings) you didn’t even bother to dig in and compare the scriptures I offered that are painfully, obviously different from before and after the cross, that, tells me a lot. The truth isn’t for everyone. Most just want to be right and/or get people to co sign with them on THEIR agendas so they can feel good about their beliefs. I said it before, WE TOO were stuck in law teaching, wrong doctrine and believing that Matthew-John was for US, so i get it that people don’t understand. WE did not. BUT, once you REALLY STUDY and know who is speaking, to whom, and what are the circumstances, THEN our eyes get opened to the DIFFERENCES between what was REQUIRED before the cross, and AFTER. My wife said, you appeared to be curious about finding truth so I rolled with it. Looks like it fell on deaf ears. We have seen MANY who get that the Kim Clements, Joel Osteens, Rick Warrens etc. are wrong and out of the very same mind and mouth reject Paul as the apostle to the gentiles with a DIFFERENT gospel ( Romans 16:25 as an EX) Romans 2:16 1 Timothy 1:16 1 Corinthians 14:37 How anyone rejects Paul and his instructions that ARE different, is beyond me when they are presented with SCRIPTURE FACTS! I feel I was baited all along which doesn’t phase me. I press on with the TRUTH. Just because people sound good, look good, are great orators, are masters of writing words and conveying things to get people to think they are so educated and versed in a subject doesn’t make it so. ( JOHN) Let GOD be true! Romans 3:4 RIGHTLY DIVIDED. Actually I don’t know why I’m even stating all this as I’m sure you’ll squash it or maybe find another way to insult this HD. This isn’t my first rodeo. Also, lastly, as an observation, in ALL these articles I have been involved with here, all the arguments and contentions about water baptism, tongues etc. NOT ONCE have I seen it mentioned as I HAVE stated, how people are saved 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and Ephesians 1:13 seals us!! NO other way period this side of the cross. So, just so you realize I am NOT swimming back to where I once was. I didn’t go overboard, I GOT ONBOARD with Paul’s gospel! Which men WILL be judged by! Romans 2:16. Maybe YOU should consider to KEEP SWIMMING until the TRUTH registers RIGHTLY DIVIDED! I’ve BEEN where you are. I’ve BEEN where so many are BUT kept searching and my eyes were opened! Hopefully that day will come for you.
I’m 7 hours behind the rest of you (Alabama, USA) and I end up coming late to the party each day! A lot has transpired since the last time I looked with several new comments. One thing I would like to address again for Bobby: my comments were not meant to be pejorative or condescending. You were correct in one of your earlier posts when you said that sometimes in emails, texts, message boards, etc., comments come across as harsh when that was not the authors intent. When you are with someone in person, you get a better feel for what they’re saying by their expressions, voice inflection and tone. All of those are absent in written correspondence. When I used the term “hyper-dispensationalism” I did not mean for it to be disparaging. So, if you are insulted by that term I apologize. We all want to get to the truth and be good “Bereans” and sometimes that means we are challenged, just as the Bereans challenged Paul. I try to look at it more as “iron sharpening iron.”
Your friend in Christ,
John
Bobby
Would you say that the doctrine of the blood and faith in God’s Gospel can be applied to before and after the cross – the one being a faith in foresight and the other in hindsight? I ask this against the backdrop of what Paul writes in Hebrews 9:22: “And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. (Hebrews 9:22)
If Abraham’s sins were remitted (cancelled out) by the blood of the cross, and also Peter’s James’s John’s, Paul’s and the rest of the apostles’ did they all have the same Gospel? Of coarse God revealed his truth in different dispensations but there is one vital truth that runs through all of them, and that is the blood of the cross.
Unlike John, and many others on this sight who don’t mean to be disparaging when they proclaim the truth, I never aim to please men just because they feel offended or angry. For instance, Deborah asked John when he wrote “I don’t think one should actively preach/teach AGAINST baptism” that we should rather set the topic aside. I assume he was referring to the two or more articles I had written on baptism and feels that I am preaching AGAINST baptism. I notice that this clause was removed from the article. What happened to EARNESTLY contend for the faith? If we are going to whine, feel offended and be like little children who are forever “tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; (Ephesians 4:14), we may as well pack up and go. Yes , I am angry because I hate it when God’s sheep, and especially the little lambs are deceived by wolves in sheep’s clothing. John and Bobby, before you feel offended. I am not calling you wolves in sheep’s clothing. I am talking in general.
This verse appears in the Gospel of John, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (Joh 3:16). Is in NOT for you and your wife? By trrhe way, as you know Jesus spoke these words. Just a thought!
Tom: I do not look to please men, either. My intent in writing was/is to challenge ideas and to do so in a manner that people do not think I am attacking them personally. I believe in civil discourse, even if the other side turns ugly. Unfortunately, a lot of people DO take it personally when you challenge them on their beliefs (as you and Deborah well know!) And no, my comment about “preach/teach AGAINST baptism” is not referring to your articles on the subject. I haven’t read them yet.
Your friend in Christ,
John
I’m not sure who you are speaking to about whining but I for one am FAR from whining!! Ephesians 4:14 BACK AT YA MAN! You are extremely deceived and unwilling to see scripture for what it says RIGHTLY DIVIDED! YOU are all over the place. YOU are VERY deceived mixing doctrines, etc. John 3:16 did ya happen to notice Jesus had NOT gone to the cross yet. There is NOTHING in that statement about OUR salvation doctrine. AND Paul did NOT write Hebrews. How do we know? By Paul’s OWN words, 2 Thessalonians 3:17 The salutation of Paul with MINE OWN HAND, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.
That is scripture! AND as you keep speaking about Jesus’ words you refuse to see apparently PAUL’S gospel ARE Jesus’ words!
So, I guess it’s a surprise to you that John 3:16 does NOT contain the gospel that saves today!
So, lets talk about John 3:16 since you made it an issue.
Paul calls the preaching of the cross the power of God unto salvation (1 Cor 1:18-21). Without the cross the gospel is vain, but a trained bloodhound could not find the cross in John 3.
Jesus is talking about his origin from heaven in John 3:13 and shows that God sent his Son from heaven into the world in John 3:16. When God “gave his only begotten Son” in John 3:16, he was not speaking about his crucifixion.
Speaking of the cross, there is no mention of the blood of Jesus or the forgiveness of sins in John 3 either. Forgiveness of sins is spoken about at other times in Jesus ministry, but John 3 contains neither.
If the gospel is to be preached ought we not at some point speak about forgiveness through the blood of Jesus Christ?
All this for you to consider that John 3:16 may be too succinct as a gospel verse. Without the blood, propitiation, or substitionary atonement then John 3:16 is incomplete regarding the gospel that saves.
John 3:16 is not speaking about resurrection of Christ or anyone else. If John 3:16 can stand alone as the gospel, are we to neglect this important event? Paul says that if Christ did not raise from the dead then our preaching is vain (1 Cor 15:14).
It is no coincidence that John 3 is one of only two chapters that speak of being “born again”, and no where in the vicinity is the death, blood, or resurrection of Christ.
Both John 3:16 and being “born again” were messages to Israel before the mystery was revealed.
John 3:16 is a wonderful verse… if you are Israel looking for your Messiah. It speaks of God’s love, Jesus as the prophesied Christ, and the necessity of belief in Him for everlasting life. It says everything John (and Jesus) intended to identify for Israel who was their Messiah (John 20:31).
It is a tremendous verse to communicate the person of Jesus being Christ, but reducing the gospel we preach today to merely the person of Christ, removes the most important aspect of His finished work. This work had not yet been done, and would not be explained until revealed later to the church.
The church of today, the gospel for today, and our preaching of Jesus Christ for today was a mystery that had not yet been revealed in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. We now know the gospel of Christ that saves through the writings of the apostle Paul in such passages as Romans 3, or succinctly stated in 1 Cor 15:1-4:
“I declare unto you the gospel… by which also ye are saved… how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” – 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
John 3:16 is a good verse unless you are trying to preach the cross of Christ, the power of God unto salvation. Then, you might consider something in Paul’s epistles like Romans 5:8.
IF you continue this journey of deception friend, you have fun TRYING to endure to the end and HOPE your name is written in the Lambs book of life (Israel) while WE KNOW our sins are already forgiven, paid for, not imputed and WE will enjoy an eternity in heaven!! You had better wake up man. Seriously. Stop plucking, cherry picking or reading articles and dig in to SCRIPTURE before it’s too late!
Thanks, John, I appreciate your comment. I was just amazed to see that your sentence “I don’t think one should actively preach/teach AGAINST baptism” was edited out in the article. Civil discourses can often be hot, believe it or not.
And some days after Paul said unto Barnabas, Let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they do. And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was Mark. But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work. And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus; (Acts 15:36-39)
The word for contention is “paroxusmos” and means “as hot as an acetylene torch.”
Most people who are in error view word for word quotes from Scripture as a personal attack on them. That’s one of the signs of a false teacher. Read Bobby’s latest comment and you will see what I mean.
We (the apostles of God) are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us (the apostles); he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
(1Jn 4:6)
Now, this guy says Peter, John, and James had a different Gospel than Paul? Really! He’s not listening to the apostles. What does that make him and his wife?
By the way, you may find it interesting to read my articles on baptism.
Your brother in Christ
Bobby wrote:
IF you continue this journey of deception friend, you have fun TRYING to endure to the end and HOPE your name is written in the Lambs book of life (Israel) while WE KNOW our sins are already forgiven, paid for, not imputed and WE will enjoy an eternity in heaven!! You had better wake up man. Seriously. Stop plucking, cherry picking or reading articles and dig into SCRIPTURE before it’s too late!
I really think you and your wife are deceived in thinking that John 3:16 does not contain the Gospel (Good News). Do you really think God would issue such a stern warning in verse 36 if it did not present the Gospel, only 20 verses onward?
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)
Hi Tom and John
Tom said “I was just amazed to see that your sentence “I don’t think one should actively preach/teach AGAINST baptism” was edited out in the article.”
Huh? Something is missing? Ok, we have a new editor called Gutenberg and learning this thing is like literally trying to learn the printing press. I thought it was going to be easy…well…I take my words back Tom. I was trying to nest that picture of mine and it literally took me over an hour to figure it out, no thanks to any help from Google I might add. Each paragraph is in ‘blocks’ and I manged to accidentally delete paragraphs (blocks) left right and center during this process, as it’s now so easy to make a mistake and delete a paragraph it’s not even funny, and it appears that sentence went missing. And last night as I lay in bed thinking of the day, I realised… I didn’t check to see if the article in point or list format! So I’m gonna check that now, and then put that sentence back – I’ll look at previous revisions to see where it goes.
[Edited by Deborah – Ok it’s back, I just put it right at the end of paragraph 5. I checked the revisions and couldn’t find that sentence, so I’m not sure where it was supposed to go. So just put it at the end. 🙂 ]
Oh yay, I see it is in point format. Something worked…
Hi Debs, As you know I am not an IT fundi. I never thought of the possibility of the Gutenberg block problem. Anyway, no sweat and thank you. I haven’t used the Gutenberg myself thus far and am terrified that I may not be able to climb the new mountain.
Hi Bobby
You said “Paul calls the preaching of the cross the power of God unto salvation (1 Cor 1:18-21). Without the cross the gospel is vain, but a trained bloodhound could not find the cross in John 3. Jesus is talking about his origin from heaven in John 3:13 and shows that God sent his Son from heaven into the world in John 3:16. When God “gave his only begotten Son” in John 3:16, he was not speaking about his crucifixion.”
:horrified: So because John 3:16 doesn’t actually say cross or crucifixion or the blood of Jesus Christ it therefore doesn’t imply it either?
Ok lets go back a couple of verses shall we…
John 3:13-16 (KJV)
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
So there we have it, the cross, Jesus Christ and forgiveness of sin and His ascension into heaven in the Old Testament. Moses knew what it meant.
Num 21:7-9 (KJV)
7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people. 8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. 9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
So in the Old Testament in the book of Numbers we find the Israelites once again rebelling against God. God sends a plague of deadly serpents called ‘fiery serpents’ to the Israelites; the result of the snakes bite causes a terribly hot fever and it leads to death.
The Israelites cried out for mercy, so God instructed Moses to sculpt a brass serpent, put it on a pole, and hold it the pole with the brass serpent on in the middle of the camp. The Israelites who looked up toward the serpent on the pole were healed.
What does this mean? Why not just make a medicinal cure? Because no human remedy can forgive sin. Death was on the Israelite’s door step unless GOD gave them the remedy.
This incident in Israel’s history was a prefiguring of Jesus Christ on a cross, who was lifted up, who became sin for us. Salvation, forgiveness of sin (spiritual healing) and re-birth comes from simply looking at Jesus Christ on the the cross, placing our very faith in Him to forgive us of our sins.
The brass serpent was a symbol of sin and judgment in the garden of Eden, but the serpent was lifted up from the earth and put on a tree, which was a symbol of a curse (Galatians 3:13). The serpent lifted up then symbolised a cursed Jesus Christ on the cross who bore the sins of the world and who anyone who looks unto Him in faith are forgiven of their sin, just like the Israelites had to look up to the upraised brass serpent on the pole in the wilderness and they were forgiven of their sin.
Paul was reminding the Galatians that Jesus became a curse for us, although He was blameless and sinless as the spotless Lamb of God. “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
Now that’s RIGHTLY DIVIDING the Word of God! :like:
Tom
Actually it was a ‘me’ problem, user error, Gutenberg just helped me make the error :laugh:
AMEN and AMEN :like:
Wat ñ voorreg om sulke swaargewigte in debat met mekaar te ervaar.
Sou ñ mens ñ onskriftuurlike afleiding maak as jy sou praat van ñ AANGEPASTE EVANGLIE?
Die Evangelieverkondiging in die Evangelies [Mat-Joh.] was gerig op die Huis van Israel [Jode] en die Jode was ingestel op ñ teken [1 Kor. 1:22 want die Jode vra ‘n teken en die Grieke soek wysheid,] daarom is die waterdoop aan hulle as teken gegee ter vergifnis van sondes. Toe Johannes die Doper die waterdoop “ingestel” het, het hy dit gedoen om Jesus Christus aan ISRAEL te openbaar.[ Joh. 1:31 En ek het Hom nie geken nie; maar dat Hy aan Israel openbaar sou word, daarom het ek gekom en met water gedoop.]
Met die evangelie verkondiging aan die heidene, deur Paulus, was ñ teken irrelevant en slegs geloof was genoeg ter vergewing van sondes.
Om kognitiewe dissonansie te voorkom [by my] sal die aanvaarding van die begrip van AANGEPASTE EVANGELIE by my rus bring. Dit beteken dan nie dat ons van ñ ander evangelie praat nie. Of wat praat ek alles?!
Hoe dit ookal sy baie dankie vir al die leerstof wat so mildelik uitgedra word.
Hallo Laurens.
Dit sou beslis onskriftuurlik wees om te praat van ’n AANGEPASTE EVANGELIE?
“Aanpas (“adapt”) beteken om iets gepas te maak vir ’ nuwe doel; vir nuwe toestande of omstandighede. Die mens het nog altyd vanaf die begin gebonde gegaan onder sonde en verlorenheid. Watter deel van hierdie waarheid sal ons moet verander om aan te pas by ’n nuwe doel of toestande en omstandighede van die mens – die werklikheid van sonde of van verlorenheid, of albei? Sou ons ’n AANGEPASTE EVANGELIE as skriftuurlik aanvaar, dan moet ons Jesus se doel na die aarde ook verander, wat, soos jy behoort te weet, was om sondaars ter soek en te red. (Lukas 10:19). Op sy beurt sou dit noodwendig moes uitloop op ’n veranderde evangelie.
Ek is seker jy sal saamstem dat Jesus nog nooit verander het nie. HY was, is en sal ook altyd dieselfde wees (Hebreërs 13:8; Jakobus 1”17). Netsoos Jesus self, het sy evangelie nog nooit verander nie.
Broeders, ek spreek menslikerwys: selfs ‘n mens se testament wat bekragtig is, maak niemand tot niet of voeg daaraan toe nie. Nou is aan Abraham die beloftes toegesê en aan sy saad. Hy sê nie: En aan die sade, asof dit op baie sien nie, maar op een: En aan jou saad, dit is Christus. Maar ek sê dít: die wet wat vier honderd en dertig jaar later gekom het, maak die verbond wat deur God in Christus vantevore bekragtig is, nie kragteloos om die belofte tot niet te maak nie. Want as die erfenis uit die wet is, dan is dit nie meer uit die belofte nie. Maar God het dit aan Abraham deur ‘n belofte genadiglik geskenk. Wat beteken die wet dan? Dit is bygevoeg weens die oortredinge, totdat die saad aan wie die belofte gedoen is, sou kom; en dit is deur engele beskik deur tussenkoms van ‘n middelaar. En die middelaar is nie net vir een nie; maar God is een. Is die wet dan teen die beloftes van God? Nee, stellig nie! Want as daar ‘n wet gegee was wat krag het om lewend te maak, dan sou die geregtigheid werklik uit die wet wees. Maar die Skrif het alles ingesluit onder die sonde, sodat die belofte uit die geloof in Jesus Christus aan die gelowiges gegee kon word. (Galasiërs 3:15-22)
Hy wat julle dan die Gees verleen en kragte onder julle werk, doen Hy dit uit die werke van die wet of uit die prediking van die geloof? Net soos Abraham in God geglo het, en dit is hom tot geregtigheid gereken. Julle verstaan dan dat die wat uit die geloof is, hulle is kinders van Abraham. En die Skrif wat vooruit gesien het dat God die heidene uit die geloof sou regverdig, het vooraf aan Abraham die evangelie verkondig met die woorde: In jou sal al die volke geseën word. Sodat die wat uit die geloof is, geseën word saam met die gelowige Abraham. .(Gal 3:5-9).
Die waterdoop is nie ingestel om Jesus Christus aan Israel te openbaar nie. Jesus Christus is gedoop sodat alles met betrekking tot die Wet vervul mag word. Jesus
Toe het Jesus van Galiléa na die Jordaan, na Johannes gekom om deur hom gedoop te word. Maar Johannes het Hom ernstig teëgegaan en gesê: Ek het nodig om deur U gedoop te word, en kom U na my toe? Maar Jesus het geantwoord en vir hom gesê: Laat dit nou toe, want só pas dit ons om alle geregtigheid te vervul. Daarna het hy Hom toegelaat. (Mattheus 3:13-15).
Christus word/is op baie plekke in die Ou Testament aan Israel geopenbaar. Hulle het geglo in die pre-bestaan (pre-existence) van Jesus Christus as die Seun van God en ook dat Hy sou kom om as Koning oor hulle in Jerusalem te regeer (Lukas 1:31-33). So-ook het Johannes die Doper van die pre-bestaan van Jesus geweet. Daarom sê hy in vers 30 van Johannes 1, “Dit is Hy van wie ek gesê het: Ná my kom ‘n man wat voor my geword het, want Hy was eerder as ek.” Hiermee het hy bely dat Jesus “EK IS” (YHWH) van die Ou Testament is wat Homself so aan Moses geopenbaar het (Eksodus 3:14). Maar, waarom sê hy in die volgende vers (31) “En ek het Hom nie geken nie?” Hoewel Johannes en Jesus familie was (Maria en Elizabeth was verwante – Lukas 1:36), het hy Hom nog nooit in die vlees ontmoet nie. Eers toe die Vader Hom aan Johannes geopenbaar het, het hy geweet wie Hy is (Johannes 1:29). Daarom sê die Skrif: “Dit is Hy wat deur water en bloed gekom het, Jesus die Christus; nie deur die water alleen nie, maar deur die water en die bloed; en dit is die Gees wat getuig, want die Gees is die waarheid.” (1 Johannes 5:6). Jesus het dus albei die ou Testamentiese vereistes vir reiniging vervul. In die Ou testament was dit fisiese skoon water en die bloed van diere (waarvan die toepassing deur geloof vooruitgesien het na die koms van die Lam van God – Genesis 22:8), en in die Nuwe Testament is dit die water (die Woord – Johannes 15:3; Romeine 10:17) en Sy eie bloed.
Die waterdoop is ook nie deur Johannes die Doper ingestel nie. Dit kom ’n lang pad en is reeds ingestel toe die volk Israel by die berg Sinai gereinig moes word met skoon water (Eksodus 19:10-11). Die “klere was” met water en die reiniging met die bloed van ’n onskuldige dier in die Ou Testament is die voorafskaduwing van die was van klere met die bloed van die Lam (Jesus Christus) in die Nuwe Testament (Openbaring 7:14). In albei gevalle was dit alleenlik geloof in die Lam van God wat red – die een in vooruitskouing na Sy koms en kruisiging en die ander in terugskouing op sy koms en kruisiging.
Baie,baie dankie. Die Here se seën julle toegebid.
Hi Deborah/Tom/and others
Can I just say that I like your website very much and I like what you are doing here. I came across it only recently and I enjoyed what I read so far. I was actually reading up on Calvinism on the got questions website and some things did not really make sense to me, that is when I ended up here. I need some help with something I have been struggling with recently. It might sound silly to someone who already knows and understand it better but, I am going to ask anyway.
It is sort of with regards to God’s sovereignty. If we read in the book of Revelations (the whole bible actually), we see that God has an ultimate plan for us and the universe and His Kingdom now and in future time. So do our efforts here on earth (for example evangelism) make any difference to the outcome of God’s plan? Let’s say for example that we all decide to abandon our faith and become atheists or evangelism is so effective that we convert everyone on the planet to Christianity (perhaps highly unlikely), will that not interfere with the plans that God made before He even created us and everything? Or was God 100 % sure that people will never be able to accomplish that even before creating us, hence that will not bother His plans? I personally think that might be the case.
I do not have a Pastor or a Dominee at this stage to talk to because I am sort of “between churches” at the moment. Not sure where to go anymore. I was always in the NGK but left some time ago because it has become such a “people pleaser”church.
Your response will be highly appreciated,
Kind regards,
Kobus :like:
Hi Kobus and thanks for your comment. I personally believe it is a misunderstanding and/or misrepresentation of who God is (of his character) that causes so much confusion, particularly in the area of how to marry or reconcile God’s sovereignty and man’s free will. How do you bring the two together without running down or even totally excluding the one in favour of the other? I am busy writing (or shall I rather say, struggling) to write an article in response to someone’s views on Calvinism in the light of “God’s election in the context of the God-gene and heredity.” Hopefully, you will be patient and some of your questions may be answered as soon as I have finished it. Jesus said:
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (John 17:3).
We dare not misrepresent the character of God because it leads to error and away from salvation.
Thank you very much for your response, Tom. Appreciated.
Yes sometimes I think too deep into it. As if I am trying to get into God’s head and see what the plan is. Just the thought of that is so ridiculous and to me, even sounds sinful. But I should just put my full trust in Him and try to understand scripture better because what we need to know as humans is all in there.
I look forward to your article and I am pretty sure I will learn something from it.
Thanks again.
Hi Kobus. I have finally written an article that might be of assistance to you in understanding the truth about Calvinism and the reformed doctrines better.
Mid-Acts is a bible fact in that there was no Gentile saved until Cornelius. Peter and the Jews that are with him are astonished because of this, that upon the Gentiles is poured out the Holy Ghost. When people get this right we can move on to greater discussions.
Greg wrote:
Really??? Ruth, who’s mentioned in the ancestral lineage of Jesus Christ (Matthew 1:5) was a Moabitess (Gentile). Wasn’t she saved? Rahab, an ex-Gentile whore, who is also mentioned in Christ’s lineage (verse 5) was also saved.
Nobody was saved to heaven until after the cross, they went to Abraham’s Bosom, or Hell. Until the shed blood, there is no New testament without the Testator death and shedding of blood=Jesus on the cross.
Greg, you know how to wiggle your way out tough spots, don’t you? You did not say “Nobody was saved to heaven until after the cross, . . .” You said initially “Mid-Acts is a Bible fact in that there was no Gentile saved until Cornelius.” At any rate, pre-cross and post-cross sinners were saved in exactly the same way. So, what the point?
Really Greg… and these go where?
Job had the assurance that although he was going to be eaten by worms, he would receive a new body and in that body would actually see God face to face, obviously conscious. In Job 19:25-27 he says that “For I know my Redeemer is living, and He shall rise on the earth at the last; and after my skin has been struck off from my flesh, yet this, I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and no stranger; though my reins be exhausted in my bosom.
Then there’s Isaiah 26:19: Your dead ones shall live, my dead body, they shall rise up. Awake and sing, dust dwellers; for the dew of lights is your dew; and the earth shall cast out departed spirits.
Here’s Dan 12:1-3, which is quite clear: And at that time, Michael shall stand up, the great ruler who stands for the sons of your people. And there shall be a time of distress, such as has not been from the being of a nation until that time. And at that time, your people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the Book. And many of those sleeping in the earth’s dust shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches and to everlasting abhorrence. And those who act wisely shall shine as the brightness of the firmament, and those turning many to righteousness as the stars forever and ever.
HYPER DISPENSATIONALISMMuch of your website is awesome 👏. But I’d like to encourage you revisit this subject.
I’m not here to argue but your understanding of Hyper Dispensation is falling
short of truth. It appears you seriously didn’t consider or study this clearly. It seems you found fault from the very start as many do. Hyper Disp does exists but not how you explained it. I’m 62 years old, was raised a Baptist, WAS a pentecostal, other various groups. Finally after many years of good and bad Biblical understanding, that got cleared up by understanding Right Division after years of much study.
Just like a KJB clears up a College Education.
Your post is misleading to other readers.
God bless,
Greg
Dear Greg
Seems like you’re an expert on the field because maybe it’s something you believe in? 🙂 Would you mind explaining to us the ins and outs of what you believe Hyper Dispenslationalism is, if you can do it in point form that would be fabulous. I’ve got a pretty good understanding of it, but would like to hear your view.
We are not here to argue either, unless it turns out to be unblibcal, then we will have to disagree and set the record straight.
Please debate Randy White on this issue in an open forum
Jesus message is about “restoring the world” through the twelve tribe rule, based in Jerusalem, a national gospel, a theocratic rule, foretold by the prophets, clearly has Jew and Gentile distinctions. Will last for one thousand years and into eternity.
Paul’s mystery gospel is about the “individual restoration”Has no Jew, Gentile distinctions. Is but for a Dispensation. Was not foretold by the prophets,. To understand you must never self applying doctrine meant for Israel and you must Rightly divide. Law and grace becomes very clearly understood.