I can settle your argument in a single sentence, asserting that Augustine was undeniably a key precursor to Roman Catholicism.

In a commentary on Psalm 33, he speaks of Christ holding His own Body in His hands at the Last Supper: “Christ was being carried in his own hands when he handed over his body, saying, ‘This is my body’; for he was holding that very body in his hands as he spoke.”

As you may know the Eucharist is a central doctrine, fundamental to the foundation of one’s salvation in Roman Catholicism.

Augustine of Hippo’s influence is so profound that he’s sometimes called “the Father of Roman Catholicism”.

Here’s why he holds that title:

Theological Contributions

1) Original Sin and Grace: Augustine’s teachings on original sin and divine grace became cornerstones of Catholic doctrine.(Grace meaning “Unconditional election; Limited atonement; and Irreesistable grace).
2) Sacraments: He emphasized the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and supported the necessity of infant baptism. He believed that infant baptism was salvific, particularly because it cleansed the infant from original sin.
3) Church Authority: Augustine strongly defended the authority of the Church and the primacy of the Roman See, aligning with what would later become central Catholic positions.

You may ask what has Calvin’s more than 1700 quotes of Augustine got to do with the issue. Well, it is as Paul said, “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.” [Gal 5:9]. Calvin always quoted Augustine favourably. Dave Hunt quotes Calvin to expose his heresies. If you can’t see the difference there’s no sense in continuing this discussion.

laura lee wrote:

I mean, what if the reprobate human beings who die and go to hell… came from hell in the first place as “sons of perdition”? I mean, what if those “innocent folks” who end up dying and going to hell… were really in their spirits DEVILS before they were made human?? I mean, what if things are not as they appear on the surface?? I mean, what if God is seeing something way deeper inside of human beings that causes Him to call some “tares” and others “wheat”; some “children of the devil” and others “children of God”… before they are even born or have done anything good or bad??

Stop your nonsense? The Bible is not based on WHAT IFS. It is based on facts. What if you were not saved and needed to repent?

I mean, what if it is true that they were already before of old condemned… as devils… and are now the seed of the serpent… children of the devil because they are devils incarnate really being made human beings??

What if God was infinitely kind and gracious in allowing the devils to be made human that God knew would never have ability to “choose Christ” in this life??

What if that is why they are pre-destined to hell… because they literally have no way to hear Jesus or choose Christ… and the elect are different and are not devils incarnate in their spirit man before this world was created??

I mean, what if people are not seeing the underlying truth…and are judging God on the basis of surface appearance that “all mankind looks alike”??

I mean, granted, Calvinism states that all mankind are the same, all mankind fell in Adam, God could have saved all mankind but chose to save only some. OK, definitely, that makes no Bible sense at all.

But what if the Bible is literal… and the reprobate are reprobate because they are LITERAL sons of perdition in their spirit man…and are LITERALLY devils incarnate in their spirit man… and thus the children of the devil LITERALLY… the seed of satan LITERALLY… do you still feel so sorry for them that they are predestined to hell as human beings… because it’s really true that there is no way that they can be saved in their human lifetimes??

I mean, what if the lake of fire really does destroy all evil on the last day… and they come through the fire saved??

I mean, what if that is why we are all here?? So the seed of the serpent… the sons of perdition… could be made human and come through the fire saved on the Last Day??

I mean, is God really such an “ogre” for double predestination, really, in that light??

I mean, what about the box that says God must not be Sovereign… or He would be a monster for predestining innocent babies to hell before they were born?? What if God was infinitely kind and gracious… for making them babies in the first place knowing they were by their own pre-existent spiritual states in perdition as sons of perdition… impossible to save in their human lifetimes??

Would you still say that God is disqualified from ruling over the earth because “you think double predestination is unloving”?? What if it’s a kindness of God they are here in the first place??

Are we honestly capable of judging God and ruling Him unfit to rule over all??

What’s your opinion??

http://www.reformation.org/jesuit-oath.html

http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/03/13/dave-hunt-and-the-book-the-power-of-the-spirit/

http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/03/22/mystery-babylon/

The old comments have been transferred by Debs to those 2 articles as it is a better place for them.

The thing is, that Tozer doesn’t have a great following. We don’t hear that Tozerites are opening churches. In fact no one even calls themselves Tozerites (that I’ve heard). But Calvin on the other hand, although also dead, has made great inroads into the philosophies of Christianity and has been around a much longer time. Branhamites (NOLR, NAR, IHOP) have also gathered a rather large following. The same spirits that began his movement, the same angel, Emma, that spoke to William Branham is still showing up today, as well as a myriad of others and speaking to those who follow his in his steps.

There are so many nightmare gurus today, why should we spend so much time on someone like Tozer? or “all the others”? If you want to discuss all the others, you shouldn’t be using this thread as an opportunity for your agenda.

This thread is about Calvinism and Catholicism. They are two cults that are bringing the vast majority of Christians into bondage and keeping them from simple faith through idolatry and extra biblical teachings. In the bigger picture of apostasy, ecumenists today will be the vehicle used to bring the charismatics back to the mother church. Too many have bought into the credibility and influence of these two anti-christ churches while being too intimidated to speak out against their doctrine because of fear. Fear of man has indeed proved to be the snare that has engulfed the weak in faith.

Many in Christian circles do not understand how this all came about or where it’s headed. The article being discussed has brought historical and documented evidence of the misguided and deceitful doctrines of Augustine flowing downhill. After the connections are made, it will be the responsibility of every individual to make their own decision to leave Babylon. Will they stay or will they go?

You astound me. You actually thought that TBC would IN A WEEK purge the book from their inventory? Puleeeeeeze!

Yes, there is leaven at TBC, but it is NOT corrupt or dangerous as are many others! Paul, you are OBSESSED with this book and you can’t just let it go! Debs closed down the thread about it and end of story, but NOOOOOOOOOO, you have to come over here and dredge it up again!

Then you start harping on Tozer again. Yes, Tozer would not be my choice. But is he at the top of the list as a dangerous deceiver? NO! Do I feel the need as a watcher on the wall to shout and call attention to him? NO! I won’t recommend him to anyone. If the occasion arises when I can in the course of conversation alert someone, YES!

I exhort you as a brother in Christ to shine your spotlight on the REAL & DANGEROUS enemies of the faith who are deceiving masses of people such as Roman Catholicism and Calvinism, the “social justice” friends of Rome, such as Rick Warren, and then the “feel gooders” such as Joel Olsteen. And what about the “Christian” networks that are anything but! There are real scary wolves out there ravaging the flocks as we speak. We can’t afford to waste our time swatting flies while killer bees are swarming.

you said >> “we could find something in every Christian’s life that was off base”.
I agree with that, but that is not what we are talking about here. It has nothing to do with TA’s personal Christian life (is he really a Christian?). It is about the gullible, men-trusting, men-fearing, men-exalting, men-following, blind, non-berean sheep, being deceived and led to other deceivers by him.

We have to speak the TRUTH in LOVE (Eph 4:15). We cannot compromise one for the sake of the other.

By the way, one week after TA wrote to Debs that they were scraping “The Power of The Spirit”, the book is still being offered on TBC’s website:
and William Law is still featuring in the list of authors:
http://www.thebereancall.org/store/Law%2C%20William

Paul

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