Believe as thy wilt. You clearly do not have an ear to hear. I am done with you. Please do not comment here again.

HE THAT HATH AN EAR TO HEAR, LET HIM HEAR.

In love and for Christ’s sake,

Shane

My rebuke, that you are wasting my time, stems from your dogged refusal to admit your errors. But since you now have readily admitted your mistake with regard to the servant issue, you are no longer wasting my time – uh, maybe still just a little bit with your resurrection story.

The tribulation is not the wrath of God? Really? You must be kidding me. Who opens the very first seal and subsequently six more to usher in the seven-year tribulation on earth – Satan and Antichrist? Judgment and wrath are terms used in tandem and are equal in their meaning. Like most other Post-tribs you say that the tribulation is Satan’s and Antichrist’s wrath. Since when did God the Father give them the authority to judge in wrath? God gave his Son the authority to judge in his wrath (John 5:27) and NOT to Satan and Antichrist. That’s blasphemy. At any rate, Satan and Antichrist wrath is always aimed at believers alone and not their followers. In fact, their 666 mark will enable their followers to survive during the tribulation for some time. In fact, their followers will worship Satan’s Antichrist as being Christ. What kind of judgment is that on the part of Satan and his Anticherist? Judgment will be meted out upon the entire world and all nations, which means it is God’s wrath and NOT Satan’s and his Antichrist’s wrath.

Once again, if the rapture takes place simultaneously with Christ’s Second Advent, it follows that the dead in Christ (the saints who are going to be killed by Antichrist during the tribulation) must rise first, and then the saints who are still alive must be raised to eternal life in the twinkling of an eye. I have already pointed out that you cannot divide the Body of Christ into one section who are going to be changed from their corruptible to their incorruptible bodies and another section that is going to remain in their natural bodies to populate the Millennium. If a single resurrection at the end of the tribulation were true, we would have to remove 1 Thessalonians 4:15 from our Bibles. That’s one of the main reasons why the rapture cannot possibly occur at the end of the tribulation.

Job 14:12 does not support or even teach a pre-trib rapture or the timing of any kind of rapture, including the post-trib rapture. Job is not referring to the resurrection as per se a resurrection of a new body. He laments the fact that when a man dies, he cannot return to his original natural body, not in a million years, not even until the heavens are no more. In other words, NEVER. Barnes says:

“The heavens are the most permanent and enduring objects of which we have any knowledge, and are, therefore, used to denote permanency and eternity; see Psalm 89:36-37. This verse, therefore, is simply a solemn declaration of the belief of Job that when man dies, he dies to live no more on the earth. Of the truth of this, no one can doubt – and the truth is as important and affecting as it is undoubted. If man could come back again, life would be a different thing. If he could revisit the earth to repair the evils of a wicked life, to repent of his errors, to make amends for his faults, and to make preparation for a future world, it would be a different thing to live, and a different thing to die. But when he travels over the road of life, he treads a path which is not to be traversed again. When he neglects an opportunity to do good, it cannot be recalled. When he commits an offence, he cannot come back to repair the evil. He falls, and dies, and lives no more.”

Therefore, the purpose of Job 14:12 is to debunk the doctrine of reincarnation and NOT to substantiate the resurrection and its timing.

Moreover, Job could not have known anything about the rapture because the doctrine was kept hidden by God from the church until he revealed it to Paul. That’s why Paul called it a mystery. I am sorry, but your once-off universal resurrection and rapture at the end of the tribulation fall flat, time and again. However, I am very pleased to hear that you are not into the cult of Calvinism.

I haven’t posted a comment lately because of other responsibilities. I am somewhat unsure if I should continue corresponding with you, seeing how you so kindly asked me to stop wasting your time, but then much to my surprise, I saw that you hoped to hear from me, so I hope this post is welcomed.

I must say first of all, Tom, that you are entirely correct concerning the lost being servants of the most high King. Our Lord can and does use whoever he wills. Thank you much for the correction.
Having said that it doesn’t change the fact that it was believing Jews that went to Babylon. The plain reading Of Jeremiah sure conveys such.

Robbie, To answer your question, I am the pastor of GROUND OF TRUTH bible fellowship in Tomball, Tx. I an not affiliated with the church you mentioned nor the library you mentioned.
I have read some of the works of those you mentioned save David Pratt. I do not hold to Calvinism as taught today. I believe John Calvin would change his name if he were alive today.
Seems Calvinist have taken his teachings to a place where they somewhat vaguely resemble his teachings. From my readings of Spurgeon, I find him definitely not a candidate for today’s Calvinism. My conclusion of Spurgeon, though I am no authority, for I have not read all his writings, I sense he did not hold to LIMITED ATONEMENT and rightfully so. I do think a student of the bible could glean some things from Calvin and Spurgeon but I am no fan of Macarthur or Sproul. The last work I read of Sproul was straight from the mind of Sproul for it had very little if any scripture in it. Not even references.

Tom the resurrection occurs at the end of the great tribulation after the lights go out then at some point during the darknness the heavens depart then the resurrection takes place. Then the wrath of God begins during which many will come to faith in Christ and yes including many Jews. For scriptural support read attentively my last post.
The tribulation and the wrath of God are two different things. Read Rev. 12 especially Rev. 12:12 and Rev. 12:16-17. Read also Rev. 13:7 and compare to Daniel 7:21-22 and Daniel 8:24.
Now if you could explain to me how Job 14:12 and II Thes. 2:1-4 support a pre-trib rapture?

Tom, I hope you read my last post attentively considering the scriptures I listed. Though I may have blundered on the sevant thing please don’t discount the entire post for I put much thought into answering your question about natural bodied saints in the millenium.

Thanks for the dialogue and good night,
Shane

Hi Robbie. Thank you for your prompt response. Hopefully, we shall hear from Shane soon. However, I doubt it because he hasn’t responded to any of my most recent comments. He’s usually very quick to refute me. If he is knee deep into Calvinism his views on God’s sovereignty is very bleak, considering the fact that he believes God can only use saints to serve Him and not unbelievers.

What I wanted to know from Shane Shaddix…
– Is he a pastor at Imago Dei Baptist Church?
– Did he assist Daniel Akin (seemingly his protege) in updating Danny Akin’s theological library?

The library update refers to the following persons writings and sermons as “guide lines” or general references.
To name a few – David Pratt, John Macarthur, RC Sproul, Calvin, C H Spurgeon, et al…

Does he endorse those as “guides”?

If no… I humbly apologise for mixing him up with the wrong squad.

If yes … It explains a lot.

I have no idea what happened to your comment Robbie, I’ve looked everywhere. Can you please re-comment.

Shane Shaddix

I really think you should make a jolly good effort to read your Bible more carefully before you comment here again, lest you slip up as you’ve done here in this comment. Firstly, it is rather interesting that you should mention King Cyrus. You noted that the lost are not servants of the most high King. God’s people serve him. The truth is that God chose King Cyrus to serve him as his “shepherd” and “anointed.” Yet, God said of Cyrus that he did not know him. Cyrus was a pagan king, who did not wittingly serve God. He did not even know God. Yet He was still used by God as His minister (servant).

And in case you disagree (as usual), let me take you to Jeremiah 28 where God says that King Nebuchadnezzar, also a pagan king, was his servant. (Jeremiah 25:8-9). All rulers on earth are God’s servants, and guess what? Most, if not all of them, are unbelievers. (Romans 12:17-13:6).

Judas Iscariot, like all the other disciples, was chosen by Jesus to serve Him and to do all the miracles He commanded the others to perform. I dare you to tell me that he was saved.

Please stop wasting my time.

Shane Shaddix

Indeed, there will be saints who shall have come to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ during the tribulation, and who are going to enter the Millennial in their natural bodies. However, if you were correct in saying that only a single resurrection occurs at the end of the tribulation, then you cannot exclude those believers from the resurrection. Fact is that the rapture per se says, “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.” 

“For we say this to you by the Lord’s [own] word, that we who are still alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede [into His presence] those [believers] who have fallen asleep [in death].” (1 Thess 4:15 AMP).

If, as you maintain, that believing Jews and Gentiles who come to faith in Christ during the tribulation are one body, then you cannot possibly divide them into resurrected and non-resurrected believers. That’s precisely why the rapture cannot take place at the end of the tribulation. You will have to divide the living (natural bodied believers) from the resurrected believers, which, I may add, is what the false teachers had done in 1 Thessalonians 4.

Your tactic to try and impress me with your eisegesis of so many Bible passages isn’t working because you are using them totally out of context.