Dear Renette

I’ve read your article before and what is sad is that you have taken the same lies propagated by others and re-printed them. You don’t actually understand Dispensationalism at all because instead of studying it thoroughly to find the truth in scripture you have re-hashed out all the errors from others who didn’t take the time to study the bible either. How can you critique something you don’t even understand? Tom did 4 articles by Paul Benson, read them if you care to.

Dear Klippies

You said “We must be careful to separate Muslim Allah from Satan”

Satan is not a piece of stone. That stone is just an oversize idol representing Allah who is Satan.

1 John 2:22 “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.”

This is not just Islam but every religion that is NOT Christian including Roman Catholicism which all stem from Nimrod and Babylon. This verse is not talking about THE antichrist but every person who “denieth Jesus is the Christ” is an antichrist.

1 John 2:21-26 (KJV) “21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.”

Walid Shoebat is a Catholic. Walid Shoebat is purposefully laying all the blame on Islam, when he does not realise that it’s Rome who created and controls Islam to do it’s dirty work. Rome and Islam are Babylonian brothers, with the Catholic Babylonian brother dominating it’s little Islamic brother to create all the havoc while the big Catholic brother plays world peace maker.

http://shoebat.com/2013/06/12/them-damned-catholics/

Dear Ida

You said “Why is everybody talking about Eschatology when this is about freemasonry in the church? Huh”

Because that’s the direction the conversation took… Wink/

Christine (Justina) Erikson wrote

I’m going to try to make it simple for you, and I’m very tired right now so I am trying to make it simple for me. . . .

a wedding is where you get married, and up to that time you are betrothed or engaged to get married, before that you are sizing each other up and then make the commitment level of betrothal.

Nothing is more simpler than the meaning of the word “wedding” in Luke 12:36. However, you refuse to accept the most simple of the simplest.

You really don’t have to educate me on the marriage custom of the Near East, especially the Jewish custom. Any simple old guy like myself knows that – in the Jewish marriage custom – “betrothal” and the “wedding” proper differ in regard to the time frame but are exactly the same with regard to its eternal substance.

In 2 Corinthians 11:2 the word for “espoused” or “betrothed” is “harmozō” and in Luke 12:36 the word for wedding is “gamos.” The word “ἁρμόζω” (betrothed) means to join or to fit together or to GIVE one in marriage to someone. Paul is saying in effect, “When I proclaimed the Gospel to you and you received it and Jesus became your only Saviour, I joined you to Him. I fitted you to Him as a carpenter would fit things together. I espoused you to Him.”

The word “γάμος” (wedding, “gamos”) is the wedding proper or the final consummation of the wedding. At the translation of the church (all the true believers) Christ appears as a Bridegroom to take his bride unto Himself, so that the relationship that was pledged at the “betrothal” (“harmozō”) may be consummated and that the two might become one for all eternity.

It ties in perfectly with the marriage custom of the Jews. First the couple is “betrothed” (or engaged, as you said) and then the knot is tied (when the wedding proper takes place). The bride is betrothed to the bridegroom; the bridegroom returns to his father’s home where he prepares a place for them to live; he returns secretly like a thief in the night at midnight and snatches her away to live with him forevermore.

You wrote,

RULE NUMBER ONE: all this stuff you are focusing on is analogy, not literal central but using something people knew about to help tell them about something that cannot be entirely explained easily. So you can’t get bogged down in details.

Post-tribulationists and and Post-millennialists have a god they call “ANALOGY.” To them the book of Revelation is merely a series of analogies. Remember, an analogy or a symbol cannot be an analogy or a symbol without literalness. They merely describe a literal event or events in symbolic form.

That’s your whole problem! You have never studied the details, the result being that you don’t know what you are talking about. Instead you have become bogged down in a miry marsh of lies , for instance that Pre-tribulationism is a new doctrine, arising in the last hundred years, and therefore to be rejected because it is not apostolic.

Paul called the Rapture a mystery which simply (made simple for you) means that it had never been revealed in the past and only became known when Jesus chose him to be the instrument by whom He wanted to reveal the Rapture. Do you reject the Rapture because it was unknown in the OT and even to Jesus Christ’s immediate apostles? Does their ignorance of the Rapture nullify the doctrine of the Rapture?

You wrote,

All this ranting about brides and weddings doesn’t sound like you or anyone else is doing that.

Again this proves that you know nothing about the imminent return of Jesus Christ at the Rapture. Your view that the wedding takes place after there is a new heavens and a new earth destroys the doctrine of imminency of the Rapture.

You wrote,

The church is also called the pillar and foundation of the truth. (needs a roof but these are the serious elements of a building.) it is the housing of the truth. What is the Truth? JESUS is the truth. The Holy Spirit in the Church feed us Jesus’ truth in the Scriptures and in GIVING US COMMON SENSE IF WE WILL RECEIVE IT, HINT, HINT

Indeed, common sense tells us that when Jesus returns from the wedding, He will be returning WITH his Bride and NOT to her because He is not going to present his Bride to his Father by proxy. The marriage of the Lamb is NOT going to be consummated by proxy. Now, that’s what I call common sense.

I really don’t have time to waste on people who refuse to use their common sense. I shall not reply to any of your comments again. In fact, I shall delete them as I did your previous common-senseless comments.

Christine

Christine
You say “could the pretrib rapture lie be not some harmless error, but be setting some up for a fake rapture for a fake jesus, to be grabbed by demons or a cult to be killed or worse?” A fake rapture? Please tell us how something like this would be pulled of?

real easy. already there have been people in 1844 a large group who sold all and went to some hill to wait the second coming and it didn’t happen, they went home okay, the russellites morphed into SDA and JW after that. but supposing some team had been waiting to kill them? or aliens in flying saucers to take them? or demons strong enough because of many blood sacrifices to kill them or take them into some parallel dimension?

or people looking to kill Christians without anything unusual except some fake imagery perhaps and “He is in the desert” or “open the door to the messengers and go with them” and they end up in a concentration camp.

No Christine, I asked you how the evil powers of the world going to pull off a false rapture where millions of people just vanish into thin air in the twinkling of an eye. Your answer is totally a load of nonsense. Rounding up people to put into concentration camps takes time Christine and everyone will notice and silly people waiting on a hill who don’t vanish because they are deceived is not an answer to my question.

The wedding is AFTER the last judgement (yes the ones reigning with Him do not go through this except perhaps to settle what they got coming good or bad for how they did their job but they are safe from the second death).

The wedding is AFTER there is a new heavens and a new earth.

a wedding is where you get married, and up to that time you are betrothed or engaged to get married, before that you are sizing each other up and then make the commitment level of betrothal.

RULE NUMBER ONE: all this stuff you are focusing on is analogy, not literal central but using something people knew about to help tell them about something that cannot be entirely explained easily. So you can’t get bogged down in details.

RULE NUMBER TWO: any of these parable analogies are not necessarily focused on who the bride is and that’s you and whoop dee doo. none of them are in fact, if I recall right, they focus on making sure you so behave and keep your mind that you won’t miss the party or won’t get punished for being a lousy servant but rewarded.

RULE NUMBER THREE: the rest of analogies and parables some more explicit than others, such as last judgement scenes incl. one parable about a man returning from a long trip and finding his servant has been beating those he was to care for, another about the talents, and the more explanation needing parable of the sower, not to mention the analogies of us “the bride” to branches on a vine, with warning that a branch that doesn’t cling to the core trunk (Jesus) withers, dries, doesn’t bear fruit, dies, and is cut out and thrown in the fire (yes you can lose your salvation, also a warning of the parable of the sower) ALL NEED TO BE PAID ATTENTION TO.

All this ranting about brides and weddings doesn’t sound like you or anyone else is doing that.

And frankly, you don’t see much such focus in Paul’s letters, maybe one or two quick references. A big long lecture however on the church as an ORGANIC CREATURE similar to a body from one view, or a Portuguese Man O War multi critter going to make one critter type thing from another view.

The church is also called the pillar and foundation of the truth. (needs a roof but these are the serious elements of a building.) it is the housing of the truth. What is the Truth? JESUS is the truth. The Holy Spirit in the Church feed us Jesus’ truth in the Scriptures and in GIVING US COMMON SENSE IF WE WILL RECEIVE IT, HINT, HINT.

have Jesus’ idea of a nice day.

Christine (Justina) Erikson

There is a huge difference between Jerusalem ‘PREPARED AS A BRIDE ADORNED FOR HER HUSBAND” and THE BRIDE (ALL THE BELIEVERS WHO HAD BEEN WASHED IN THE BLOOD OF CHRIST). The Bride is NOT prepared AS a Bride in heaven. She IS the Bride who has been prepared to be his Bride on earth.

What on earth is the difference between the Bride of Christ and BETROTHED to Christ? Really, you should learn what a wedding and a bride and a bridegroom and betrothed mean. They all refer to a wedding and a marriage. And Luke 12:36 distinctly says He returns FROM the wedding WITH his Bride. (Jude verse 14).

If your assertion that the Bride of Christ will go through the tribulation then precious few of his Bride will be alive at a Post-trib Rapture because God is going to give Antichrist the power to overcome and slaughter them (Revelation 13:7).

At any rate Jesus promised,

Rev 3:10: Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The word “from” in this instance does not mean to be kept safe within the zone or sphere of danger. It means He is going to remove the believers completely out of (from one place to another) the zone or sphere of danger. If it were true that He is going to keep them safe in the tribulation as He had done with Israel in Goshen, then Revelation 13:7 is a lie.

I don’t need to rethink anything. There is a vast difference between the persecution of the saints and God’s wrath falling on the wicked. You should rethink Revelation 3:10. Not only that, you should rethink what wedding, marriage, bride and bridegroom and betrothed mean. You will only learn to understand the Rapture when you have learned what these terms really mean.

The Christians who are going to be persecuted in the tribulation are NOT his Bride but Jews and Gentiles who are going to be saved at that time.

WOW, now you really have proven that you are confused. You obviously do not know what a wedding is? I assume that when you got married, you said to your husband, “Sweetie, you really should see this in context. You are not really my bridegroom. I am just testing you to see whether you are a worthy or unworthy servant of my wrath.”

The problem of your confusion is not context so much as failure to understand, that the bride of Christ has not yet been in the wedding. That doesn’t happen until after He comes back and has been here a long time. you are also taking analogies, which are many and varied therefore none of them exact let alone to what you are used to beyond a mere similarity, and treating them as absolutes.

Rev. 21:1, 2 “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
“And I john saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,PREPARED AS A BRIDE ADORNED FOR HER HUSBAND.”

St. Paul doesn’t say we ARE the bride of Christ he says we are BETROTHED to Christ, 2 Cor. 11:2. though he uses the word “espoused,” he says he did so to present you as a pure virgin to Christ, so this espousal is what we would call a betrothal. if you haven’t been presented to your husband yet, you can’t call it a wedding.

In any case, your argument falls flat because of centuries of persecution, which when we suffer we get a better resurrection than if we didn’t. Heb. 11:35. What is so unique about the antichrist’s persecution, what is new about being offered the choice of apostasy or death? nothing. and if he is killing such vast numbers that Jesus said no flesh would be left alive unless this were cut short, then he doesn’t have time for much torture and probably will use the guillotine a lot. Beheading is an easy way to die, only conscious a few seconds and not as much pain as a broken leg.

If your argument about not testing the bride (or bride to be) is true, then none of the persecutions from apostolic times to now would ever have happened. So you need to rethink everything.