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	Comments on: What to EXPECT in the Last Days	</title>
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	<description>Discerning Biblical Answers for Christians in Todays World</description>
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		<title>
		By: John Andrews UK/Ireland		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-293794</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Andrews UK/Ireland]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://discerningtheworld2.wordpress.com/?p=5398#comment-293794</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Angus Buchan&#039;s agenda must be to enrich himself. Money has probably become his prime motivator. He is &quot;merchandising an adulterated gospel&quot; to the deceived who buy his books, daily devotionals, &quot;bibles&quot;, DVDs and encourage others to do the same. 

It seems that this aspect of the false teachers is not given enough attention. A preacher without a conscience is despicable in my opinion. I recall a booklet that was available with the title &quot;Ten ways to get rich&quot; and yes &quot;Start your own church&quot; was up there........]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angus Buchan&#8217;s agenda must be to enrich himself. Money has probably become his prime motivator. He is &#8220;merchandising an adulterated gospel&#8221; to the deceived who buy his books, daily devotionals, &#8220;bibles&#8221;, DVDs and encourage others to do the same. </p>
<p>It seems that this aspect of the false teachers is not given enough attention. A preacher without a conscience is despicable in my opinion. I recall a booklet that was available with the title &#8220;Ten ways to get rich&#8221; and yes &#8220;Start your own church&#8221; was up there&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-293754</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://discerningtheworld2.wordpress.com/?p=5398#comment-293754</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-293720&quot;&gt;John Andrews UK/Ireland&lt;/a&gt;.

John Andrews UK/Ireland,

Thank you. You have done a good work in exposing the basis for false revivals. I agree. Indeed God allows false teachers and their false doctrines to come among his children to test them and see whether they really love Him with all their heart, soul and mind.

&lt;blockquote&gt;If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. (Deut 13:1-3)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Most Christians would probably say that Angus Buchan and many other false teachers do not encourage people to go after other gods. However, they do encourage people to follow another Jesus which is nothing else than another god. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (2 Co 11:1-4)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The most dangerous deceiver is the &quot;Christian deceiver&quot; who constantly uses the Name of Jesus and even quotes Him frequently but very subtly and deviously alters his Gospel to suit their agenda. What is their agenda? Their agenda is to bring in the Kingdom of God in here and now. What they don&#039;t seem to realize is that they are not bringing in the Kingdom of God but the kingdom of Antichrist.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-293720" >John Andrews UK/Ireland</a>.</p>
<p>John Andrews UK/Ireland,</p>
<p>Thank you. You have done a good work in exposing the basis for false revivals. I agree. Indeed God allows false teachers and their false doctrines to come among his children to test them and see whether they really love Him with all their heart, soul and mind.</p>
<blockquote><p>If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. (Deut 13:1-3)</p></blockquote>
<p>Most Christians would probably say that Angus Buchan and many other false teachers do not encourage people to go after other gods. However, they do encourage people to follow another Jesus which is nothing else than another god. </p>
<blockquote><p>Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (2 Co 11:1-4)</p></blockquote>
<p>The most dangerous deceiver is the &#8220;Christian deceiver&#8221; who constantly uses the Name of Jesus and even quotes Him frequently but very subtly and deviously alters his Gospel to suit their agenda. What is their agenda? Their agenda is to bring in the Kingdom of God in here and now. What they don&#8217;t seem to realize is that they are not bringing in the Kingdom of God but the kingdom of Antichrist.</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Andrews UK/Ireland		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-293720</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Andrews UK/Ireland]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://discerningtheworld2.wordpress.com/?p=5398#comment-293720</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wow!.. I never expected so many sidetracks on the subject of the last days. I actually had to scroll back to the beginning to remind myself where our departure point was. Then I realized that I got to this blog in the first place because I believe that Angus Buchan is an awful deceiver of most (including professing Christians). 

According to Angus Buchan we are in a revival. Are we really? Is this revival then an end time revival as is implied by him and others? I would be cautious to venture into an area that the Bible warns is not for us to know. It is futile for us to speculate on when and for how long the end time/s will last and when the coming of the Lord will be.

 Matthew 24:36 (NKJV) “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only&quot;

Understanding the falsehood of preachers like Angus Buchan is well set out by reflections on www.goodnewsarticles.com that I have copied:

**There Must Be Heresies


For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are genuine may be made manifest among you.  (1 Cor. 11:19)

     God never creates or is pleased with heresy – for heresy is a lie about God.  Paul is simply saying that there are going to be heresies, and that God must allow them.  Why does God allow heresy, heretics, and false teaching in His church?

     He tells us:  In order that the genuine article might be proven or built.  For example, how do you know two plus two equals four?  Probably because you were taught that it does -- and you accepted it.  But if someone comes along claiming that two plus two equals five, now you are going to have to prove two plus two equals four.  Because you are faced with error, you must prove the truth – and if you do, your knowledge and faith that two plus two equals four will be strengthened.  Being faced with error was therefore an opportunity to prove the Truth.

     When a person who believes the Truth is faced with error – or when a person who believes error is faced with the Truth – they have a choice.  Do we want to know Jesus Christ?  If so, God will give us more than information.  He will give us revelation.  He will not only expose any error we believe, but He will expose the unbelief that is in our hearts that gave place for it.  We will be made genuine – made true unto God.  And if we already believed the Truth, our faith will be strengthened all the more because the Truth upon which it is built will be proven all the more.  There must be heresies – they are allowed by God so that we might be given cause to seek the Truth in Christ.

True Revival

     The term, “revival,” means, “to come alive again.”  But that suggests that there was once life, which died, but now must be revived.  Having said that, what is REVIVAL?  Revival is the bringing in of Jesus Christ -- as the Life.  (John 14:6)  During a real revival, Christ becomes OUR life, and thus, we become alive in Him.

      True revival is first judgment.  If God is to reveal Christ, then all that is contrary to Christ must be exposed and renounced.  Jesus isn’t going to simply show up and affirm what we have been doing.  Repentance, and a forsaking of all that has hindered Christ, will always be at the forefront of any revival.

      Then – real revival is a revelation of Jesus Christ to people in a personal, inward way.  CHRIST IN YOU becomes real.  Of course, we tend to think of revival as a big special event – as something God does once in awhile.  In fact, we should not need a revival.  If the Truth of Jesus Christ is being preached in season and out of season, people should be continually edified unto the forming of Christ in them.

False Revival

     For false revival to deceive, it has to look like true revival.  It is a terrifying and yet ironic thing that the end time apostasy is going to look like a great end time revival.  The Bible never promises an end time revival.  But there is plenty about an end time apostasy.

     Since God is not in a false revival, there must be a substitute that will look like God is in it.  That substitute is usually signs and wonders – people getting all worked up because they believe God has done something TO them.  No. The fact is, signs and wonders are never evidence of true revival.  God doesn’t merely want to do something TO us – He wants to reveal Jesus Christ IN US.

      There is an old saying, “Things always grow up to be what they really are.”  Look at the long term fruit of a revival and that will tell you whether it was of God.  The question is this:  Has Jesus Christ been revealed IN people as the outcome?  Using this as our guide, we would be hard pressed to find many revivals of the 20th century that could pass the test.  Most of the eventual outcome of these revivals have been to minimize Jesus Christ in favor of something else that is a substitute for Him.
 
Signs and Wonders

“An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah.”  (Mat 12:39)

     People most often seek after signs and wonders because they do not believe and trust God – they are always needing God to prove Himself to them.  In fact, Jesus says that this can be spiritual adultery – people put faith in experiences through signs and wonders rather than in Christ Himself.  They want things from God but not God Himself.

     The Pharisees of Jesus’ day were waiting for the Messiah.  They knew all of the Bible verses that spoke of Him.  They continually prayed that God would send Him.  But when He stood right in their midst they called Him a devil.  They did not recognize Him – despite the fact that He did many signs and wonders in front of them.  Did those miracles change them?  No.  The problem was that they did not want God or want the Truth.  They wanted a Messiah who would affirm their religion, affirm them, and exclude everyone else.  We can be guilty of the same unbelief.

     There are a number of ways to seek signs and wonders – this is not limited to seeking some fantastic miracle.  I could continually nag God to prove to me He is there in any number of ways.  But if Christ is being formed within me, and I have a growing inward knowledge of Him, He will be all the evidence that I need.  If I am raised in Christ, then the sign of Jonah – resurrection -- is the only evidence I will need from God.**

Above excerpt Signs and Wonders also from www.goodnewsarticles.com 

God bless and may Matthew 16 16-18 become your inspiration and the rest of God&#039;s word so that you will not expect to hear the truth from Angus Buchan who should be exposed (if at all possible in a fertile ground for false teachers/prophets such as we live in today). It has been a frustration that a number of Christians that I have tried to engage with will say &quot;You may be right&quot; but will not agree fully that Angus Buchan is  &quot;an audience manipulator and a liar (concerning miracles in &#039;The fables of Angus Buchan&#039;)&quot;


Matthew 16:16-18 (NKJV)

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!.. I never expected so many sidetracks on the subject of the last days. I actually had to scroll back to the beginning to remind myself where our departure point was. Then I realized that I got to this blog in the first place because I believe that Angus Buchan is an awful deceiver of most (including professing Christians). </p>
<p>According to Angus Buchan we are in a revival. Are we really? Is this revival then an end time revival as is implied by him and others? I would be cautious to venture into an area that the Bible warns is not for us to know. It is futile for us to speculate on when and for how long the end time/s will last and when the coming of the Lord will be.</p>
<p> Matthew 24:36 (NKJV) “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only&#8221;</p>
<p>Understanding the falsehood of preachers like Angus Buchan is well set out by reflections on <a target="_blank" href="http://www.goodnewsarticles.com"  rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.goodnewsarticles.com</a> that I have copied:</p>
<p>**There Must Be Heresies</p>
<p>For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are genuine may be made manifest among you.  (1 Cor. 11:19)</p>
<p>     God never creates or is pleased with heresy – for heresy is a lie about God.  Paul is simply saying that there are going to be heresies, and that God must allow them.  Why does God allow heresy, heretics, and false teaching in His church?</p>
<p>     He tells us:  In order that the genuine article might be proven or built.  For example, how do you know two plus two equals four?  Probably because you were taught that it does &#8212; and you accepted it.  But if someone comes along claiming that two plus two equals five, now you are going to have to prove two plus two equals four.  Because you are faced with error, you must prove the truth – and if you do, your knowledge and faith that two plus two equals four will be strengthened.  Being faced with error was therefore an opportunity to prove the Truth.</p>
<p>     When a person who believes the Truth is faced with error – or when a person who believes error is faced with the Truth – they have a choice.  Do we want to know Jesus Christ?  If so, God will give us more than information.  He will give us revelation.  He will not only expose any error we believe, but He will expose the unbelief that is in our hearts that gave place for it.  We will be made genuine – made true unto God.  And if we already believed the Truth, our faith will be strengthened all the more because the Truth upon which it is built will be proven all the more.  There must be heresies – they are allowed by God so that we might be given cause to seek the Truth in Christ.</p>
<p>True Revival</p>
<p>     The term, “revival,” means, “to come alive again.”  But that suggests that there was once life, which died, but now must be revived.  Having said that, what is REVIVAL?  Revival is the bringing in of Jesus Christ &#8212; as the Life.  (John 14:6)  During a real revival, Christ becomes OUR life, and thus, we become alive in Him.</p>
<p>      True revival is first judgment.  If God is to reveal Christ, then all that is contrary to Christ must be exposed and renounced.  Jesus isn’t going to simply show up and affirm what we have been doing.  Repentance, and a forsaking of all that has hindered Christ, will always be at the forefront of any revival.</p>
<p>      Then – real revival is a revelation of Jesus Christ to people in a personal, inward way.  CHRIST IN YOU becomes real.  Of course, we tend to think of revival as a big special event – as something God does once in awhile.  In fact, we should not need a revival.  If the Truth of Jesus Christ is being preached in season and out of season, people should be continually edified unto the forming of Christ in them.</p>
<p>False Revival</p>
<p>     For false revival to deceive, it has to look like true revival.  It is a terrifying and yet ironic thing that the end time apostasy is going to look like a great end time revival.  The Bible never promises an end time revival.  But there is plenty about an end time apostasy.</p>
<p>     Since God is not in a false revival, there must be a substitute that will look like God is in it.  That substitute is usually signs and wonders – people getting all worked up because they believe God has done something TO them.  No. The fact is, signs and wonders are never evidence of true revival.  God doesn’t merely want to do something TO us – He wants to reveal Jesus Christ IN US.</p>
<p>      There is an old saying, “Things always grow up to be what they really are.”  Look at the long term fruit of a revival and that will tell you whether it was of God.  The question is this:  Has Jesus Christ been revealed IN people as the outcome?  Using this as our guide, we would be hard pressed to find many revivals of the 20th century that could pass the test.  Most of the eventual outcome of these revivals have been to minimize Jesus Christ in favor of something else that is a substitute for Him.</p>
<p>Signs and Wonders</p>
<p>“An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah.”  (Mat 12:39)</p>
<p>     People most often seek after signs and wonders because they do not believe and trust God – they are always needing God to prove Himself to them.  In fact, Jesus says that this can be spiritual adultery – people put faith in experiences through signs and wonders rather than in Christ Himself.  They want things from God but not God Himself.</p>
<p>     The Pharisees of Jesus’ day were waiting for the Messiah.  They knew all of the Bible verses that spoke of Him.  They continually prayed that God would send Him.  But when He stood right in their midst they called Him a devil.  They did not recognize Him – despite the fact that He did many signs and wonders in front of them.  Did those miracles change them?  No.  The problem was that they did not want God or want the Truth.  They wanted a Messiah who would affirm their religion, affirm them, and exclude everyone else.  We can be guilty of the same unbelief.</p>
<p>     There are a number of ways to seek signs and wonders – this is not limited to seeking some fantastic miracle.  I could continually nag God to prove to me He is there in any number of ways.  But if Christ is being formed within me, and I have a growing inward knowledge of Him, He will be all the evidence that I need.  If I am raised in Christ, then the sign of Jonah – resurrection &#8212; is the only evidence I will need from God.**</p>
<p>Above excerpt Signs and Wonders also from <a target="_blank" href="http://www.goodnewsarticles.com"  rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.goodnewsarticles.com</a> </p>
<p>God bless and may Matthew 16 16-18 become your inspiration and the rest of God&#8217;s word so that you will not expect to hear the truth from Angus Buchan who should be exposed (if at all possible in a fertile ground for false teachers/prophets such as we live in today). It has been a frustration that a number of Christians that I have tried to engage with will say &#8220;You may be right&#8221; but will not agree fully that Angus Buchan is  &#8220;an audience manipulator and a liar (concerning miracles in &#8216;The fables of Angus Buchan&#8217;)&#8221;</p>
<p>Matthew 16:16-18 (NKJV)</p>
<p>16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”</p>
<p>17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robbie		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-267075</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robbie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Sep 2013 17:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://discerningtheworld2.wordpress.com/?p=5398#comment-267075</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Roelie and the rest...

Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John all repeatedly warned such men would rise up— ESPECIALLY among Christian churches—and lead many astray. They warned that not only would there be many False Prophets and teachers, there would be many followers of them as well. 

Many have been incorrectly taught that false teachers don&#039;t exist, that practically everyone is saved, that essentially any doctrine is acceptable if sincerely believed, and that basically any level of morality is satisfactory. 


These doctrines are popular for obvious reasons. They are easy to understand, easy to like, and easy to follow. 

But Jesus contrasted the &quot;easy path—which He said leads to destruction—with the difficult &quot;narrow path&quot; that leads to eternal life. His was a message of warning and great caution. He cautioned His followers to be on the lookout for False Prophets, and warned them these prophets would appear as sheep, but would in fact be wolves. 

Tragically, few people ever bother to do their homework on their own preachers, a fact that misguided preachers and televangelists have used to keep millions in their blinded state.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roelie and the rest&#8230;</p>
<p>Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John all repeatedly warned such men would rise up— ESPECIALLY among Christian churches—and lead many astray. They warned that not only would there be many False Prophets and teachers, there would be many followers of them as well. </p>
<p>Many have been incorrectly taught that false teachers don&#8217;t exist, that practically everyone is saved, that essentially any doctrine is acceptable if sincerely believed, and that basically any level of morality is satisfactory. </p>
<p>These doctrines are popular for obvious reasons. They are easy to understand, easy to like, and easy to follow. </p>
<p>But Jesus contrasted the &#8220;easy path—which He said leads to destruction—with the difficult &#8220;narrow path&#8221; that leads to eternal life. His was a message of warning and great caution. He cautioned His followers to be on the lookout for False Prophets, and warned them these prophets would appear as sheep, but would in fact be wolves. </p>
<p>Tragically, few people ever bother to do their homework on their own preachers, a fact that misguided preachers and televangelists have used to keep millions in their blinded state.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-262225</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Aug 2013 19:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://discerningtheworld2.wordpress.com/?p=5398#comment-262225</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-262141&quot;&gt;Roelie&lt;/a&gt;.

Roelie wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Really! You would dare to presume to know what God would call people for?! I dare say the proof is in the pudding. If God did not call him, how do you explain his success?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What do you mean by success? The very fact that you are praising, glorifying and elevating a man, proves that he is NOT successful. Furthermore, having accepted his teaching that there is creative power (positive or negative) in your words also proves that he is NOT successful. Yes, he may be successful in leading people astray but he is definitely not successful in presenting the truth to them. 

I really don&#039;t have the time to present you with the opportunity to glorify Angus Buchan. I am not in the business to elevate man and devaluate Jesus Christ. Cheers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-262141" >Roelie</a>.</p>
<p>Roelie wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Really! You would dare to presume to know what God would call people for?! I dare say the proof is in the pudding. If God did not call him, how do you explain his success?</p></blockquote>
<p>What do you mean by success? The very fact that you are praising, glorifying and elevating a man, proves that he is NOT successful. Furthermore, having accepted his teaching that there is creative power (positive or negative) in your words also proves that he is NOT successful. Yes, he may be successful in leading people astray but he is definitely not successful in presenting the truth to them. </p>
<p>I really don&#8217;t have the time to present you with the opportunity to glorify Angus Buchan. I am not in the business to elevate man and devaluate Jesus Christ. Cheers.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-262224</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Aug 2013 19:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://discerningtheworld2.wordpress.com/?p=5398#comment-262224</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-262153&quot;&gt;Roelie&lt;/a&gt;.

Roelie wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I stand by my point – that your words do have power.
Same goes for you prayers. They are also just words in the end.
So if you condone praying, you cannot condemn positive speaking.
If your words have no power, then prayer has no power.
If your words have no power, then any blessing you issue have no power.
If your words have no power, then any curse that is issued against you also have now power – so then why are you so concerned about witchcraft?
Your words have the power to alter your mindset and the atmosphere around you.
It will help you to walk in faith, and it is your faith in the end that alters your situation and allows God to move on your behalf.
There is nothing wrong or occultic about this teaching.
Obviously there is extremes, and this I will happily join in condemning – but accusing Angus of this far-fetched.
Please can we have some better examples of where he did this – except for an “Expect”-rant like in this article.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Roelie, I&#039;m quite happy to say &quot;carry on regardless.&quot; I don&#039;t have time to waste. 

You may have attended many so-called Mighty Men Conferences but you are acting like the silly women in 2 Tim 3:6-7.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-262153" >Roelie</a>.</p>
<p>Roelie wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>I stand by my point – that your words do have power.<br />
Same goes for you prayers. They are also just words in the end.<br />
So if you condone praying, you cannot condemn positive speaking.<br />
If your words have no power, then prayer has no power.<br />
If your words have no power, then any blessing you issue have no power.<br />
If your words have no power, then any curse that is issued against you also have now power – so then why are you so concerned about witchcraft?<br />
Your words have the power to alter your mindset and the atmosphere around you.<br />
It will help you to walk in faith, and it is your faith in the end that alters your situation and allows God to move on your behalf.<br />
There is nothing wrong or occultic about this teaching.<br />
Obviously there is extremes, and this I will happily join in condemning – but accusing Angus of this far-fetched.<br />
Please can we have some better examples of where he did this – except for an “Expect”-rant like in this article.</p></blockquote>
<p>Roelie, I&#8217;m quite happy to say &#8220;carry on regardless.&#8221; I don&#8217;t have time to waste. </p>
<p>You may have attended many so-called Mighty Men Conferences but you are acting like the silly women in 2 Tim 3:6-7.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Roelie		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-262153</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roelie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Aug 2013 12:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://discerningtheworld2.wordpress.com/?p=5398#comment-262153</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thomas Lessing (Watch and Pray / Waak en Bid) wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
If ever there was a man with great faith who believed that God will come through for him in a given situation or trial, it was Paul. And yet God did not come through for him in the way he expected or wanted Him to come through for him. In fact, God did exactly the opposite to what Paul wanted from God. I presume you already know this passage?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, I am well aware of this passage.


Whereas Paul boasted in his infirmities and his weaknesses so that the power of Christ may dwell on him, the Word of Faith fraternity (of which you seem to be a happy member) boast in the power of their tongue and words, which is, and I agree with Deborah, occultic to the core. It is NOT of God. 

I am not a WOF proponent per se. But they do have some truth in their teachings - satan likes to take doctrines to the extreme and make you fall into the ditch on the other side.
I do believe in positive confessions, and that your words do have the power alter situations or to bless people or to curse people.
I do believe that negative comments about your trials gives satan more / free-er access to heap some more burning coals on there, because you are giving him legal rights or access.
This is because your are not walking in faith - you are doubting and cursing your own situation.
Rom 14:23 NKJV - 23 ...; for whatever [is] not from faith is sin.
Anything you do that is not done in faith is sin, and God will not bless sin.
There are plenty of Bible verses that talk about the blessing you might expect through righteous living and staying within His will and commands.
And the inverse is also true, if you are walking in sin and doubt, you had better not expect God to come trough for you in anything.
Having said that; I do NOT believe that God is under any obligation to come through for you in all situations, or in the specific ways you speak over your situations.
I also believe a great deal of harm can indeed be done as you claim, where this is abused.
In my own situations I therefore use this sparingly and with caution. 
I will usually just say that I am confident that God will come through for me, or I&#039;ll issue a blessing, or I&#039;ll quote some scripture.
And I make a huge effort NOT to become negative or to issue statements to the effect that a disaster is sure to happen.
This is just inviting trouble, as you are NOT walking in faith.
I do not see this practice as occultic at all - it simply walking in faith and proclaiming it for your own and other&#039;s edification.


I know of many people who sought God’s favours and were told that they should merely utter positive confessions to prove the strength of their faith, who eventually fell away and turned their backs on God. They usually argue “I did exactly what the Word of Faith people told me to do. I used the power of my words to confess only positive things, but nothing happened. I am worse off now than what I was. Your God is a sham.” Your teaching of positive confessions and the alleged power of your words teach people to blaspheme God.


Look, merely uttering positive confessions won&#039;t do much - you have to really believe.
And even then, God will not always come through for you in the way you expect. 
Do I need to quote the scriptures that keep on knocking and the door will be opened (luk 11), or the parable about the judge and the widow that kept pestering him (luk 18)?
It is really sad that some people lost their faith through this - you should do your best to ensure a clear biblical teaching is given to them about these issues.
I agree, some WOF proponents do go overboard, but this is not what I nor Angus in anyway teach or condone.
But summarily condemning ALL WOF teaching as satanic or demonic is not really truthful, and is preventing people from walking in faith fully.
You do not truly believe something until you say so, and only once start to say so, will you do so.
It is the same with our faith - we do not really believe unless confess it, and it is only once we start confessing our faith that we can start doing our faith.

This is what Dave Hunt says about positive confessions and the so-called power of your words nonsense: ...
Awesome quote and I so agree with him when you take the WOF teaching to the extreme, and you try to make your thoughts magically realize in reality through repetitive confessions, for personal gain.
But this not what I nor Angus in any way teach, condone or advocate.

So, as you can see Dave Hunt agrees with Deborah that it is witchcraft and witchcraft, as you may know, will eventually be cast into hell together with all the shamans and witch doctors who practice witchcraft, that’s if, of course, they remain unrepentant.

I stand by my point - that your words do have power.
Same goes for you prayers. They are also just words in the end. 
So if you condone praying, you cannot condemn positive speaking. 
If your words have no power, then prayer has no power.
If your words have no power, then any blessing you issue have no power.
If your words have no power, then any curse that is issued against you also have now power - so then why are you so concerned about witchcraft?
Your words have the power to alter your mindset and the atmosphere around you. 
It will help you to walk in faith, and it is your faith in the end that alters your situation and allows God to move on your behalf.
There is nothing wrong or occultic about this teaching.
Obviously there is extremes, and this I will happily join in condemning - but accusing Angus of this far-fetched.
Please can we have some better examples of where he did this - except for an &quot;Expect&quot;-rant like in this article.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I sincerely urge you to repent of your deception.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Look, I am not convinced yet, that I am under any deception.
The worst thing about a deception is that YOU DO NOT KNOW IT!
As a former atheist, I have a real passion to ensure this never happens to me again.
Which why I am subscribed to sites like this, so I can ensure that I am not deceived.
I find it a pity though that articles like this, with not a shred of real evidence is published, and an entire move of the Holy Spirit is condemned as satanic witchcraft. 
It really makes me question whom is really under the deception here.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas Lessing (Watch and Pray / Waak en Bid) wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>
If ever there was a man with great faith who believed that God will come through for him in a given situation or trial, it was Paul. And yet God did not come through for him in the way he expected or wanted Him to come through for him. In fact, God did exactly the opposite to what Paul wanted from God. I presume you already know this passage?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, I am well aware of this passage.</p>
<p>Whereas Paul boasted in his infirmities and his weaknesses so that the power of Christ may dwell on him, the Word of Faith fraternity (of which you seem to be a happy member) boast in the power of their tongue and words, which is, and I agree with Deborah, occultic to the core. It is NOT of God. </p>
<p>I am not a WOF proponent per se. But they do have some truth in their teachings &#8211; satan likes to take doctrines to the extreme and make you fall into the ditch on the other side.<br />
I do believe in positive confessions, and that your words do have the power alter situations or to bless people or to curse people.<br />
I do believe that negative comments about your trials gives satan more / free-er access to heap some more burning coals on there, because you are giving him legal rights or access.<br />
This is because your are not walking in faith &#8211; you are doubting and cursing your own situation.<br />
Rom 14:23 NKJV &#8211; 23 &#8230;; for whatever [is] not from faith is sin.<br />
Anything you do that is not done in faith is sin, and God will not bless sin.<br />
There are plenty of Bible verses that talk about the blessing you might expect through righteous living and staying within His will and commands.<br />
And the inverse is also true, if you are walking in sin and doubt, you had better not expect God to come trough for you in anything.<br />
Having said that; I do NOT believe that God is under any obligation to come through for you in all situations, or in the specific ways you speak over your situations.<br />
I also believe a great deal of harm can indeed be done as you claim, where this is abused.<br />
In my own situations I therefore use this sparingly and with caution.<br />
I will usually just say that I am confident that God will come through for me, or I&#8217;ll issue a blessing, or I&#8217;ll quote some scripture.<br />
And I make a huge effort NOT to become negative or to issue statements to the effect that a disaster is sure to happen.<br />
This is just inviting trouble, as you are NOT walking in faith.<br />
I do not see this practice as occultic at all &#8211; it simply walking in faith and proclaiming it for your own and other&#8217;s edification.</p>
<p>I know of many people who sought God’s favours and were told that they should merely utter positive confessions to prove the strength of their faith, who eventually fell away and turned their backs on God. They usually argue “I did exactly what the Word of Faith people told me to do. I used the power of my words to confess only positive things, but nothing happened. I am worse off now than what I was. Your God is a sham.” Your teaching of positive confessions and the alleged power of your words teach people to blaspheme God.</p>
<p>Look, merely uttering positive confessions won&#8217;t do much &#8211; you have to really believe.<br />
And even then, God will not always come through for you in the way you expect.<br />
Do I need to quote the scriptures that keep on knocking and the door will be opened (luk 11), or the parable about the judge and the widow that kept pestering him (luk 18)?<br />
It is really sad that some people lost their faith through this &#8211; you should do your best to ensure a clear biblical teaching is given to them about these issues.<br />
I agree, some WOF proponents do go overboard, but this is not what I nor Angus in anyway teach or condone.<br />
But summarily condemning ALL WOF teaching as satanic or demonic is not really truthful, and is preventing people from walking in faith fully.<br />
You do not truly believe something until you say so, and only once start to say so, will you do so.<br />
It is the same with our faith &#8211; we do not really believe unless confess it, and it is only once we start confessing our faith that we can start doing our faith.</p>
<p>This is what Dave Hunt says about positive confessions and the so-called power of your words nonsense: &#8230;<br />
Awesome quote and I so agree with him when you take the WOF teaching to the extreme, and you try to make your thoughts magically realize in reality through repetitive confessions, for personal gain.<br />
But this not what I nor Angus in any way teach, condone or advocate.</p>
<p>So, as you can see Dave Hunt agrees with Deborah that it is witchcraft and witchcraft, as you may know, will eventually be cast into hell together with all the shamans and witch doctors who practice witchcraft, that’s if, of course, they remain unrepentant.</p>
<p>I stand by my point &#8211; that your words do have power.<br />
Same goes for you prayers. They are also just words in the end.<br />
So if you condone praying, you cannot condemn positive speaking.<br />
If your words have no power, then prayer has no power.<br />
If your words have no power, then any blessing you issue have no power.<br />
If your words have no power, then any curse that is issued against you also have now power &#8211; so then why are you so concerned about witchcraft?<br />
Your words have the power to alter your mindset and the atmosphere around you.<br />
It will help you to walk in faith, and it is your faith in the end that alters your situation and allows God to move on your behalf.<br />
There is nothing wrong or occultic about this teaching.<br />
Obviously there is extremes, and this I will happily join in condemning &#8211; but accusing Angus of this far-fetched.<br />
Please can we have some better examples of where he did this &#8211; except for an &#8220;Expect&#8221;-rant like in this article.</p>
<blockquote><p>I sincerely urge you to repent of your deception.</p></blockquote>
<p>Look, I am not convinced yet, that I am under any deception.<br />
The worst thing about a deception is that YOU DO NOT KNOW IT!<br />
As a former atheist, I have a real passion to ensure this never happens to me again.<br />
Which why I am subscribed to sites like this, so I can ensure that I am not deceived.<br />
I find it a pity though that articles like this, with not a shred of real evidence is published, and an entire move of the Holy Spirit is condemned as satanic witchcraft.<br />
It really makes me question whom is really under the deception here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Roelie		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-262141</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roelie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Aug 2013 11:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://discerningtheworld2.wordpress.com/?p=5398#comment-262141</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Deborah,

thank you for publishing my comment again! You are under no real obligation to do so, so I respect your integrity.

Hi Thomas,

thanx for your response and input.

Look, I see no problem with Angus ministering to men specifically.
I believe as he claims, that he was specially called by God to mentor men. This is the &quot;anointing&quot; he received, and he was immensely successful because of this. He did the impossible, he got hundreds of thousands of mostly white men in south Africa, to stand together and commit to being the godly examples and leaders in their families that they are supposed to be.
Name one other ministry that has ever been so successful in South Africa - nay even the world!
What possible gain could satan have had by causing this?!

I think that we should endeavour to minister to everyone: woman, children, seekers, back-sliders, previous faith, new believers etc on their level. Each of these have very specific requirements and focus areas. I do not think a one-size fits all approach is best in all situations. Yes, there is value in a church setting where a message is shared for all, but there is just as much value in targeting specific messages to specific demographics. 

&quot;If Angus received a call to minister to men only, it was definitely not a call from God.&quot;
Really! You would dare to presume to know what God would call people for?! I dare say the proof is in the pudding. If God did not call him, how do you explain his success? Do you seriously attribute all Angus achieved to satanic rituals?? C&#039;mon man, what possible gain would satan get by strengthening the family and bringing reconciliation, emotional healing, and lifting up the man in the family to become the head and example to follow? You guys are seriously going overboard with this...

There is some merit in the argument for camp amenities - how many camps have you attended where a hundred thousand people or so showed up? How do cater for ablutions and showers for that many people at one venue?? You have no idea of the scale of this do you - you should have been there man! Seeing that many people together at one place for one purpose was an experience I&#039;ll never forget. Do yourself a favour and get the MMC DVD&#039;s and watch it. It will never be able to transfer the true thing / feeling of actually being there, but it should give you better idea on the scale of the whole operation - and it will also give you a better understanding on what exactly Angus preached about and what his message / ministry was.

Condemning all segregated camps, because some people choose to abuse it with false or incorrect teachings, is no reason to do so for ALL segregated camps. I mean what if Angus&#039;s camp was open for all? What would you be complaining about then? It would seem you are searching for reasons to denounce him, instead of encouraging and applauding him for such an amazing effort and what he achieved! Also note a major part of his huge success in reaching so many, is directly attributable to the fact THAT THERE WAS ONLY MEN PRESENT at the camp. The atmosphere that was created here just for men to be men - where father and son, and brothers and friends could just connect and speak honestly between themselves was priceless - it just would not have been the same with the women present. Is that so hard to understand??

Thomas Lessing (Watch and Pray / Waak en Bid) wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Roelie wrote:


Angus got the call from God to minister to men. And that is exactly what he did – and the blessings followed.

The command was and still is to make disciples of all the nations and to teach them everything He has commanded (Matthew 28:19-20). The nations include men, women and children. The separation of men and women in religious matters is an old Jewish and Islamic custom. That’s the reason why the disciples marveled when they found Jesus talking to a woman (John 4:27). In this episode Jesus shewed that his ministry was as equally important to women as it was to men. Paul, the greatest missionary who ever lived, followed Christ in this and also focused his ministry on men and women alike. There is no such thing as a ministry to men or women separately. I know of many so-called ministries to women. They attend many women camps (without their husbands) where some of the most horrendous charismatic heresies (such as slain in the spirit) and even New Age things are practiced. If Angus received a call to minister to men only, it was definitely not a call from God.

The argument that men’s conferences are inconvenient for women because there are not always appropriate and enough amenities available is preposterous to say the least. I attended many Christian camps in the past where both the husbands’ and wives’ particular needs were attended to.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Deborah,</p>
<p>thank you for publishing my comment again! You are under no real obligation to do so, so I respect your integrity.</p>
<p>Hi Thomas,</p>
<p>thanx for your response and input.</p>
<p>Look, I see no problem with Angus ministering to men specifically.<br />
I believe as he claims, that he was specially called by God to mentor men. This is the &#8220;anointing&#8221; he received, and he was immensely successful because of this. He did the impossible, he got hundreds of thousands of mostly white men in south Africa, to stand together and commit to being the godly examples and leaders in their families that they are supposed to be.<br />
Name one other ministry that has ever been so successful in South Africa &#8211; nay even the world!<br />
What possible gain could satan have had by causing this?!</p>
<p>I think that we should endeavour to minister to everyone: woman, children, seekers, back-sliders, previous faith, new believers etc on their level. Each of these have very specific requirements and focus areas. I do not think a one-size fits all approach is best in all situations. Yes, there is value in a church setting where a message is shared for all, but there is just as much value in targeting specific messages to specific demographics. </p>
<p>&#8220;If Angus received a call to minister to men only, it was definitely not a call from God.&#8221;<br />
Really! You would dare to presume to know what God would call people for?! I dare say the proof is in the pudding. If God did not call him, how do you explain his success? Do you seriously attribute all Angus achieved to satanic rituals?? C&#8217;mon man, what possible gain would satan get by strengthening the family and bringing reconciliation, emotional healing, and lifting up the man in the family to become the head and example to follow? You guys are seriously going overboard with this&#8230;</p>
<p>There is some merit in the argument for camp amenities &#8211; how many camps have you attended where a hundred thousand people or so showed up? How do cater for ablutions and showers for that many people at one venue?? You have no idea of the scale of this do you &#8211; you should have been there man! Seeing that many people together at one place for one purpose was an experience I&#8217;ll never forget. Do yourself a favour and get the MMC DVD&#8217;s and watch it. It will never be able to transfer the true thing / feeling of actually being there, but it should give you better idea on the scale of the whole operation &#8211; and it will also give you a better understanding on what exactly Angus preached about and what his message / ministry was.</p>
<p>Condemning all segregated camps, because some people choose to abuse it with false or incorrect teachings, is no reason to do so for ALL segregated camps. I mean what if Angus&#8217;s camp was open for all? What would you be complaining about then? It would seem you are searching for reasons to denounce him, instead of encouraging and applauding him for such an amazing effort and what he achieved! Also note a major part of his huge success in reaching so many, is directly attributable to the fact THAT THERE WAS ONLY MEN PRESENT at the camp. The atmosphere that was created here just for men to be men &#8211; where father and son, and brothers and friends could just connect and speak honestly between themselves was priceless &#8211; it just would not have been the same with the women present. Is that so hard to understand??</p>
<p>Thomas Lessing (Watch and Pray / Waak en Bid) wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Roelie wrote:</p>
<p>Angus got the call from God to minister to men. And that is exactly what he did – and the blessings followed.</p>
<p>The command was and still is to make disciples of all the nations and to teach them everything He has commanded (Matthew 28:19-20). The nations include men, women and children. The separation of men and women in religious matters is an old Jewish and Islamic custom. That’s the reason why the disciples marveled when they found Jesus talking to a woman (John 4:27). In this episode Jesus shewed that his ministry was as equally important to women as it was to men. Paul, the greatest missionary who ever lived, followed Christ in this and also focused his ministry on men and women alike. There is no such thing as a ministry to men or women separately. I know of many so-called ministries to women. They attend many women camps (without their husbands) where some of the most horrendous charismatic heresies (such as slain in the spirit) and even New Age things are practiced. If Angus received a call to minister to men only, it was definitely not a call from God.</p>
<p>The argument that men’s conferences are inconvenient for women because there are not always appropriate and enough amenities available is preposterous to say the least. I attended many Christian camps in the past where both the husbands’ and wives’ particular needs were attended to.</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-261976</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Aug 2013 18:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://discerningtheworld2.wordpress.com/?p=5398#comment-261976</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-261907&quot;&gt;Roelie&lt;/a&gt;.

Roelie wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The same reasoning you use would apply to praying for help or blessings in a given trial. It’s also idle words I speak in prayer, so if I pray for something to happen, and it does, did my words cause it – and is it also witchcraft now? It takes a whole new level of faith to be able to boldly proclaim in front of witnesses, that your God will come through for you in given situation / trial – and I think this type of faith does please God if done from a pure heart, within His will...

&quot;If you sit at home expecting nothing – guess what you’re going to get: NOTHING!

&quot;I do Expect that my words are powerful, and I contain within them the power of life or death...&quot;

&quot;I do expect that should I proclaim God’s word within His will, that it indeed will come to pass. Failing to do so, means I have no faith.&quot; &lt;/blockquote&gt;

You really said some very strange and totally unbiblical things and I don&#039;t have the time to answer each and every one them. But your above statements are the cherry on the cake. If ever there was a man with great faith who believed that God will come through for him in a given situation or trial, it was Paul. And yet God did not come through for him in the way he expected or wanted Him to come through for him. In fact, God did exactly the opposite to what Paul wanted from God. I presume you already know this passage?

&lt;blockquote&gt;So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. But he said to me, &quot;My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.&quot; Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. (2 Cor 12:7-9)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Whereas Paul boasted in his infirmities and his weaknesses so that the power of Christ may dwell on him, the Word of Faith fraternity (of which you seem to be a happy member) boast in the power of their tongue and words, which is, and I agree with Deborah, occultic to the core. It is NOT of God. I know of many people who sought God&#039;s favours and were told that they should merely utter positive confessions to prove the strength of their faith, who eventually fell away and turned their backs on God. They usually argue &quot;I did exactly what the Word of Faith people told me to do. I used the power of my words to confess only positive things, but nothing happened. I am worse off now than what I was. Your God is a sham.&quot; Your teaching of positive confessions and the alleged power of your words teach people to blaspheme God.

This is what Dave Hunt says about positive confessions and the so-called power of your words nonsense:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Now, a little background to that [positive confession and the power of your words], there was something called, New Thought, that originated probably in the 1890’s. You could pretty much trace it to a place called, The Emerson School of Oratory. Out of The Emerson School of Oratory came Unity, School of Christianity--I mean, the influence that brought it about--Christian Science, Science of Mind, Religious Science, and so forth. And much of that is reflected in the Positive Confession Movement. It was called, New Thought, in those days, it was Emersonian ideas, you know, you create reality with your mind. Let me give a quick example here. Let’s say many Christians, probably most, but many Christians, when they pray they think faith is: if I can just believe that what I am praying for will happen, then it will happen, and they think that’s faith. Obviously, if things happen because you believe they will happen, that’s not faith that’s mind power. Faith is believing God will make it happen. Well, that brings another set of circumstances into the equation. Is it God’s will? If it’s not God’s will, it’s not God’s way, it’s not God’s time. You remember, we were criticized for what we said in The Seduction of Christianity. Now we talked about the occult influences in the church and we said, Occultism is any attempt to manipulate reality by mind-over-matter techniques. And I remember some of the staunch Christian cult watchers who said, Whoa, now that rules out prayer, that rules out God’s natural work, you know, it rules it out miracles. No, we’re talking about mind over matter, attempts to manipulate reality. And so if you can make things happen by believing they will happen, that is mind over matter, that’s positive thinking. Norman Vincent Peale--you can change your reality, you can change the universe by your thoughts. Now you begin to trust in these techniques that, by the way, are taught in the business world, they’re taught in public schools. I remember in those days we used to use this illustration: We would say, &lt;strong&gt;If a witch doctor came dancing down the isles of your church in his paint and feathers and fetishes and rattles, you would throw him out or you would at least try to convert him, but you wouldn’t let him teach your congregation. But when the witch doctor has put on a business suit and a tie, and he is using Christian words, but he’s teaching the same thing underneath the cover of these Christian words, unfortunately it isn&#039;t recognized.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So, as you can see Dave Hunt agrees with Deborah that it is witchcraft and witchcraft, as you may know, will eventually be cast into hell together with all the shamans and witch doctors who practice witchcraft, that&#039;s if, of course, they remain unrepentant.

I sincerely urge you to repent of your deception.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-261907" >Roelie</a>.</p>
<p>Roelie wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>The same reasoning you use would apply to praying for help or blessings in a given trial. It’s also idle words I speak in prayer, so if I pray for something to happen, and it does, did my words cause it – and is it also witchcraft now? It takes a whole new level of faith to be able to boldly proclaim in front of witnesses, that your God will come through for you in given situation / trial – and I think this type of faith does please God if done from a pure heart, within His will&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;If you sit at home expecting nothing – guess what you’re going to get: NOTHING!</p>
<p>&#8220;I do Expect that my words are powerful, and I contain within them the power of life or death&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I do expect that should I proclaim God’s word within His will, that it indeed will come to pass. Failing to do so, means I have no faith.&#8221; </p></blockquote>
<p>You really said some very strange and totally unbiblical things and I don&#8217;t have the time to answer each and every one them. But your above statements are the cherry on the cake. If ever there was a man with great faith who believed that God will come through for him in a given situation or trial, it was Paul. And yet God did not come through for him in the way he expected or wanted Him to come through for him. In fact, God did exactly the opposite to what Paul wanted from God. I presume you already know this passage?</p>
<blockquote><p>So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. But he said to me, &#8220;My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.&#8221; Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. (2 Cor 12:7-9)</p></blockquote>
<p>Whereas Paul boasted in his infirmities and his weaknesses so that the power of Christ may dwell on him, the Word of Faith fraternity (of which you seem to be a happy member) boast in the power of their tongue and words, which is, and I agree with Deborah, occultic to the core. It is NOT of God. I know of many people who sought God&#8217;s favours and were told that they should merely utter positive confessions to prove the strength of their faith, who eventually fell away and turned their backs on God. They usually argue &#8220;I did exactly what the Word of Faith people told me to do. I used the power of my words to confess only positive things, but nothing happened. I am worse off now than what I was. Your God is a sham.&#8221; Your teaching of positive confessions and the alleged power of your words teach people to blaspheme God.</p>
<p>This is what Dave Hunt says about positive confessions and the so-called power of your words nonsense:</p>
<blockquote><p>Now, a little background to that [positive confession and the power of your words], there was something called, New Thought, that originated probably in the 1890’s. You could pretty much trace it to a place called, The Emerson School of Oratory. Out of The Emerson School of Oratory came Unity, School of Christianity&#8211;I mean, the influence that brought it about&#8211;Christian Science, Science of Mind, Religious Science, and so forth. And much of that is reflected in the Positive Confession Movement. It was called, New Thought, in those days, it was Emersonian ideas, you know, you create reality with your mind. Let me give a quick example here. Let’s say many Christians, probably most, but many Christians, when they pray they think faith is: if I can just believe that what I am praying for will happen, then it will happen, and they think that’s faith. Obviously, if things happen because you believe they will happen, that’s not faith that’s mind power. Faith is believing God will make it happen. Well, that brings another set of circumstances into the equation. Is it God’s will? If it’s not God’s will, it’s not God’s way, it’s not God’s time. You remember, we were criticized for what we said in The Seduction of Christianity. Now we talked about the occult influences in the church and we said, Occultism is any attempt to manipulate reality by mind-over-matter techniques. And I remember some of the staunch Christian cult watchers who said, Whoa, now that rules out prayer, that rules out God’s natural work, you know, it rules it out miracles. No, we’re talking about mind over matter, attempts to manipulate reality. And so if you can make things happen by believing they will happen, that is mind over matter, that’s positive thinking. Norman Vincent Peale&#8211;you can change your reality, you can change the universe by your thoughts. Now you begin to trust in these techniques that, by the way, are taught in the business world, they’re taught in public schools. I remember in those days we used to use this illustration: We would say, <strong>If a witch doctor came dancing down the isles of your church in his paint and feathers and fetishes and rattles, you would throw him out or you would at least try to convert him, but you wouldn’t let him teach your congregation. But when the witch doctor has put on a business suit and a tie, and he is using Christian words, but he’s teaching the same thing underneath the cover of these Christian words, unfortunately it isn&#8217;t recognized.</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>So, as you can see Dave Hunt agrees with Deborah that it is witchcraft and witchcraft, as you may know, will eventually be cast into hell together with all the shamans and witch doctors who practice witchcraft, that&#8217;s if, of course, they remain unrepentant.</p>
<p>I sincerely urge you to repent of your deception.</p>
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		By: Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/22/what-to-expect-in-the-last-days/#comment-261953</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Aug 2013 16:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://discerningtheworld2.wordpress.com/?p=5398#comment-261953</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Roelie wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Angus got the call from God to minister to men. And that is exactly what he did – and the blessings followed.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The command was and still is to make disciples of all the nations and to teach them everything He has commanded (Matthew 28:19-20). The nations include men, women and children. The separation of men and women in religious matters is an old Jewish and Islamic custom. That&#039;s the reason why the disciples marveled when they found Jesus talking to a woman (John 4:27). In this episode Jesus shewed that his ministry was as equally important to women as it was to men. Paul, the greatest missionary who ever lived, followed Christ in this and also focused his ministry on men and women alike. There is no such thing as a ministry to men or women separately. I know of many so-called ministries to women. They attend many women camps (without their husbands) where some of the most horrendous charismatic heresies (such as slain in the spirit) and even New Age things are practiced. If Angus received a call to minister to men only, it was definitely not a call from God. How do I know? Well, once again Matthew 28:19-20 tells us that biblical evengelization includes men and women. 

The argument that men&#039;s conferences are inconvenient for women because there are not always appropriate and enough amenities available is preposterous to say the least. I attended many Christian camps in the past where both the husbands&#039; and wives&#039; particular needs were attended to.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roelie wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Angus got the call from God to minister to men. And that is exactly what he did – and the blessings followed.</p></blockquote>
<p>The command was and still is to make disciples of all the nations and to teach them everything He has commanded (Matthew 28:19-20). The nations include men, women and children. The separation of men and women in religious matters is an old Jewish and Islamic custom. That&#8217;s the reason why the disciples marveled when they found Jesus talking to a woman (John 4:27). In this episode Jesus shewed that his ministry was as equally important to women as it was to men. Paul, the greatest missionary who ever lived, followed Christ in this and also focused his ministry on men and women alike. There is no such thing as a ministry to men or women separately. I know of many so-called ministries to women. They attend many women camps (without their husbands) where some of the most horrendous charismatic heresies (such as slain in the spirit) and even New Age things are practiced. If Angus received a call to minister to men only, it was definitely not a call from God. How do I know? Well, once again Matthew 28:19-20 tells us that biblical evengelization includes men and women. </p>
<p>The argument that men&#8217;s conferences are inconvenient for women because there are not always appropriate and enough amenities available is preposterous to say the least. I attended many Christian camps in the past where both the husbands&#8217; and wives&#8217; particular needs were attended to.</p>
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