Comments on: The DIFFERENCE Between Assurance of Salvation and CALVINISM’S Perseverance of the Saints https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/12/18/the-difference-between-assurance-of-salvation-once-saved-always-saved-and-calvinisms-perseverance-of-the-saints-once-chosen-always-chosen/ Discerning Biblical Answers for Christians in Todays World Fri, 11 Dec 2020 08:55:14 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Deborah (Discerning the World) https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/12/18/the-difference-between-assurance-of-salvation-once-saved-always-saved-and-calvinisms-perseverance-of-the-saints-once-chosen-always-chosen/#comment-496339 Fri, 11 Dec 2020 08:55:14 +0000 http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=11658#comment-496339 In reply to Christo.

Dear Christo

Please quote me next time so I can get a good idea of what you are speaking about. Sorry, I wrote this many years ago, and we have answer thousands of questions since on all different topics. I get a little confused as I can’t remember everything. 🙂

After reading your comment a number of times I do believe, well….I think… I understand what you’re trying to saying.

You said “I wanted to see on what grounds you could turn his comment on Hunt being a 1 Point Calvinist against him”

Prof Malan did not believe in Once Saved, Always Saved. He believed you would lose your salvation. Prof Malan said that Dave Hunt was a 1 point Calvinist who believed in the
P of the TULIP for Perseverance of the Saints.

The problem is Dave Hunt is NOT a 1 point Calvinist and neither did Dave Hunt believe in the P of the TULIP for Perseverance of the Saints.

There is a very big difference between Calvinism’s Perseverance of the Saints and having biblical assurance of ones salvation aka once saved always saved.

In fact Calvinism’s Perseverance of the Saints is is the exact opposite of biblical assurance of salvation. Hence my article that clearly explains the difference between the two. Calvinists have to continually strive / persevere in their works aka Lordship Salvation and never have assurance that they are in fact one of God’s Elect chosen before the foundation of the world.

]]> By: Christo https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/12/18/the-difference-between-assurance-of-salvation-once-saved-always-saved-and-calvinisms-perseverance-of-the-saints-once-chosen-always-chosen/#comment-496338 Thu, 10 Dec 2020 18:13:08 +0000 http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=11658#comment-496338 You leave me very puzzled. I came here from the page where Prof Malan refutes Calvinism. I wanted to see on what grounds you could turn his comment on Hunt being a 1 Point Calvinist against him. There I could not see how he condones moderate Calvinists. He does say there are those and in man’s nature you will surely find them. We do not all understand or even know the details of, say, our faith. Profs are called that since they nitpicked their subject, even though still fallible. Refer Ravi Zaccharias on cultural Christians. On Point 5, his first comment is this;”The Bible teaches otherwise”. His references there has exactly the same trend as yours to John 15:4 here. As usual I marked my Bibletime reading a few verses before the quoted one. I read in several Bibles, English and Afrikaans. From the first verse it is clear by, not what Paul, Peter, John or with all due respect, whoever else said, but what Christ Himself says; “1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the farmer. 
2 Every branch in me that doesn’t bear fruit, he takes away. Every branch that bears fruit, he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 
3 You are already pruned clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 
4 Remain in me, and I in you. As the branch can’t bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, so neither can you, unless you remain in me. 
5 I am the vine. You are the branches. He who remains in me and I in him bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 
6 If a man doesn’t remain in me, he is thrown out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them, throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 
7 If you remain in me, and my words remain in you, you will ask whatever you desire, and it will be done for you”.

So, according to Christ Himself it has nothing to do with the character of God, but with His actions consequential to what we decide.

A few notes out of my own life. Calvin’s teaching go directly against Christ Himself as seen in John 3:16. This is not just a nice verse, it is key to the Gospel.  The original sin was not disobedience. It was that we, Eve then Adam, decided to distrust God. We first think then we do. Adam, as man in the house, failed to check with God first. This is where our redemption is in question. Do we trust God or not? Repentance is a process. It starts with our recognition and admission that we are sinners. Giving our hearts to Christ is just the beginning. You have to accept Christ as your ultimate Saviour as well. God says if you fall in sin, it’s OK, He knows we can make honest mistakes and errors, but if you indulge in it, it’s definitely NOT OK. We don’t even tell the same joke to the same people twice. Reading 3:16 again, it struck me that God respects us and our free will. He offers and is committed to our redemption as can be seen in Isaiah 43:1 and 45:4. However; since God is free will itself, how can he deny us that? This is the conundrum He faces. He needs to “convince” us to decide by free will to follow Him and accept His salvation. The main issue is our trust He lost in Eden. Nothing better than a sick soap opera. We fell for nothing else but malicious gossip, even though God honoured His commitment to us by visiting in the evening breeze.

It is a simple case of enough is enough! Since we are made in His image what else can you expect? Taking a leaf out of corporate experience, if you let the company down, you get fired! Free will is never suspended. Nietsche junior died insane once he recanted on Christ. This just hits me now. How can we have an equal and honest personal relationship with God if we are not as committed as He is? If we do not keep up our side of that bargain?

]]> By: Deborah (Discerning the World) https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/12/18/the-difference-between-assurance-of-salvation-once-saved-always-saved-and-calvinisms-perseverance-of-the-saints-once-chosen-always-chosen/#comment-462492 Mon, 11 Dec 2017 10:46:06 +0000 http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=11658#comment-462492 In reply to hemraj.

Dear hemraj

What about it?

]]> By: hemraj https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/12/18/the-difference-between-assurance-of-salvation-once-saved-always-saved-and-calvinisms-perseverance-of-the-saints-once-chosen-always-chosen/#comment-462467 Sun, 10 Dec 2017 16:07:04 +0000 http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=11658#comment-462467 what about the teaching of james who says that man is not saved by faith only but by work
or the verses apostle paul wrote work out for your salvation with fear and trembling

]]> By: Wayne Jack https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/12/18/the-difference-between-assurance-of-salvation-once-saved-always-saved-and-calvinisms-perseverance-of-the-saints-once-chosen-always-chosen/#comment-237261 Mon, 18 Mar 2013 02:34:43 +0000 http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=11658#comment-237261 Hi friends I’m asking for help finding Bibles for the family. We all have ones that need to go.

I tried to find another one here NIV(1984), KJV http://www.christianbook.com/zondervan-niv-bible-bonded-leather-black/9780310939009/pd/939009?event=57355NIV|169342|57355
but they all seem to do this > 2008 a 25% revision to the over 20,000 in-text study notes? Why do they need to revise??? …I know why I just don’t agree with it.

I have several, the one I use the most is an amplified zondervan that I’ve had for 20+ yrs. and I have compared much scripture to KJV here http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=wife&s=Bibles&p=24 and found that its accurate 80-90% of the time, it’s the other 10-20% that concerns me. I don’t want another zonder because of the (10-20%) and fact they are a large publisher.
My wife is not an adiv Bible reader so I was trying to find one easy to read and understand and large print (11 or 12min)
so hopefully she will become an avid reader. I want another one too and ones for my sons and daughter, then I was quickly reminded why I haven’t bought one yet which is because of the difficulty finding one that hasn’t been revised, twisted or tortured. Christianbook has over 45 different translations in there bible finder, ridiculous. I have spent hrs doing this, it shouldn’t take hrs, lol

I’m getting very frustrated trying to find ones that aren’t revised.
A bible site recommendation please?

God Bless and thank you in advance,

Wayne

]]> By: John Chingford https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/12/18/the-difference-between-assurance-of-salvation-once-saved-always-saved-and-calvinisms-perseverance-of-the-saints-once-chosen-always-chosen/#comment-232299 Wed, 09 Jan 2013 17:27:21 +0000 http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=11658#comment-232299 Hi Dan (as promised). Also Carolyn this may answer one of your old questions/statements also.

Regarding Hebrews 10:26-31 especially verses 26-29

“If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?”

If you consider the whole book of Hebrews and the history behind why the book was written, you will understand what the writer meant by “If we deliberately keep on sinning”. The sinning he is referring to is the sin of returning back to the OT laws. They were acting like the sacrifice of Jesus was not enough and that they needed to follow the law also (like Catholics today).

“no sacrifice for sins is left”. Of course, if they do not consider the absolute perfect sacrifice as sufficient then what other sacrifice can replace it? There IS NO OTHER sacrifice good enough.

“but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God”

The key words here are “enemies of God”. Born again believers (including you) ARE NOT ENEMIES OF GOD. The writer was using a bit of sarcasm or irony to show how ludicrous it was to return to OT law and animal sacrifice. He was showing them that there was nothing to be gained by it because (in sarcasm) he is saying, if you want to live like that (like the unbelievers) then you should understand that these unbelievers will be consumed so why follow their ways, do you also want to be consumed?”

However, he goes on to say “How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?”

He again is referring to those unbelievers that they will be severely dealt with for rejecting the ultimate perfect sacrifice. He is also pointing out that if unbelievers will be severely dealt with then what about believers who do the same thing? It is a rhetorical question in showing the logic that believers living like that makes no sense and will cause them to ALSO be punished by God. However, punishment of bellievers is WHOLLY different from the punishment of unbelievers. Believers will NOT be sent to hell but will be chastised by a loving Father. The key word is “deserves” to be punished.

However, in chapter 12:6 it says “because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son”. Punishment does not mean hell for a believer.

Then in the context of chapter 10 it says in verse 39 “But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved”. All born again believers are “those who believe and are saved” PERIOD!!!

The writer to the Hebrews was specifically using a hypothetical argument to make a major point to the Judaizers in their midst who were troubling the true believers, advising the believers to NOT follow them. Why??? Because of all the reasons he gave throughout the book of Hebrews.

]]> By: John Chingford https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/12/18/the-difference-between-assurance-of-salvation-once-saved-always-saved-and-calvinisms-perseverance-of-the-saints-once-chosen-always-chosen/#comment-232298 Wed, 09 Jan 2013 17:23:25 +0000 http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=11658#comment-232298 DAN

I wrote a reply to you in the “General comments” section. I haven’t seen you replying for several days so am unsure if you saw the reply. As my comment has now left the list of “recent 45 comments” I decided to send it to you, again.

However, as the topic is more suitable to THIS article, I have placed it here instead. It will appear on my next comment.

]]> By: Carolyn https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/12/18/the-difference-between-assurance-of-salvation-once-saved-always-saved-and-calvinisms-perseverance-of-the-saints-once-chosen-always-chosen/#comment-232136 Mon, 07 Jan 2013 21:43:52 +0000 http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=11658#comment-232136 Debs, I can just see Christ saying to Rick Warren on Judgement Day. Where did you see the words “Purpose Driven” in my gospel?

Redeemed: A watered down gospel is so far off the mark that they not only miss it, they decimate it.

Purpose Driven and Free Grace is all about ME. The true gospel of salvation is all about Christ…the real one. I am a repentant sinner saved by grace, past, present, future….till this old mortal puts on immortality. Can’t wait for that day!

]]> By: Deborah (Discerning the World) https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/12/18/the-difference-between-assurance-of-salvation-once-saved-always-saved-and-calvinisms-perseverance-of-the-saints-once-chosen-always-chosen/#comment-232127 Mon, 07 Jan 2013 17:27:26 +0000 http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=11658#comment-232127 In reply to Redeemed.

I actually realised that the false teaching over at XPM is what Rick Warren preaches in his Purpose Driven books…Rick Warren insists on an non-repentant gospel – a sinner does not need to repent at any stage, they just need to ask Jesus into their lives, then ‘follow Jesus’ and He will sort you out. No conviction, no repentance required. Just Jesus. <--- That is a false gospel.

]]> By: Redeemed https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/12/18/the-difference-between-assurance-of-salvation-once-saved-always-saved-and-calvinisms-perseverance-of-the-saints-once-chosen-always-chosen/#comment-232125 Mon, 07 Jan 2013 15:37:13 +0000 http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=11658#comment-232125 Carolyn, Jack over at XPM is in his 80’s, retired from the ministry. He’s been reading the Bible through those distorted lenses for many a year so not likely to change now. Too bad he didn’t just ride off into the sunset and give it a rest.

He is a perfect example of coming so close to the truth but yet missing the mark. He could have missed it by a mile – same thing. But he apparently has snowed his followers who seem to be sincere folks who rightly denounce LS. But in so doing have fallen into another trap.

We can only hope that Holly will check back in here and see the mistake of linking to XPM.

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