milo wrote:

NO, Andy, the lake of fire is not eternal torment – the term in Revelation represents eternal death for those who reject the creator. Most of Revelation is symbolic. No it’s not plain and clear and it’s not from the Bible – NONE of the scriptures support this doctrine. The hell-fire doctrine came into being by the pagan religions. You are right that nobody has to be there, and nobody will be there.
…..and Jesus wants everybody in heaven – according to the Bible, the larger number of people will live on earth with Jesus being their King under God’s heavenly kingdom. There will be 144,000 from mankind who will go to heaven and be co-rulers with Jesus over mankind on earth.
Following some scriptures and thoughts for you to consider regarding the hell-fire doctrine:
The word “hell” is found in many Bible translations. In the same verses different translations read “the grave,” “the World of the dead,” and so forth. Other Bibles simply transliterate the original language words that are sometimes rendered “hell”; that is, they express them with the letters of our alphabet, but leave the words untranslated. What are those words? The Hebrew she’ohl’ and its Greek equivalent hai’des, which refer, not to an individual burial place, but to the common grave of dead mankind; also the Greek ge’enna, which is used as a symbol of eternal destruction. However, both in Christendom and in many non-Christian religions it is taught that hell is a place inhabited by demons and where the wicked, after death, are punished (and some believe that this is with torment).
Eccl. 9:5, 10: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all. All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going. (If they are conscious of nothing, they obviously feel no pain.)
Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out; he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.”
Eccl. 18:4 The soul that is sinning – it itself will die.
The concept of ‘soul,’ meaning a purely spiritual, immaterial reality, separate from the ‘body,’ … does not exist in the Bible.
According to the King James Version, Jesus was in hell after he died. Do you think Jehovah, his father, would put his only begotten son in a place of torment? My Bible renders that term “Ha’des,” which is correct. It simply means “death.” He was dead for three days before he was resurrected.
God told Adam in Gen: 3:19 that he was taken from the ground and that dust he was and to dust he will return. Eternal and lasting death was his punishment for being disobedient to his creator his creator – not eternal torment in some fire pit.
Rev: 20:13,14 talks about the sea and death and hell (hades) delivering up the dead in them. Notice that death and hell or hades is thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is symbolic for the second death or everlasting death, a death from which there is no chance of being resurrected.
1 Thess 1:9 and Matt 25:46 those who do not accept God and obey him will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction.
Romans 6:23 says the wages sin pays is death – not eternal punishment.
Romans 6:7 says he who has died has been acquitted from his sin. Death, not eternal punishment, is the penalty for sin.
What would you think of a parent who held his child’s hand over a fire to punish the child for wrong-doing? “God is love.” (1 John 4:8) Would he do what no right-minded human parent would do? Certainly not!
The hell fire doctrine is not found in the Bible, and the churches who teach this doctrine claim the demons will also be in this fiery abyss and will be the tormentors of humans thrown in there. How much sense does that make? Especially since Revelation talks about Satan and his demons being destroyed with everlasting death. Satan is the one responsible for all badness and wickedness. Why would a loving and just God allow him to continue living and tormenting?
Psalms 37:9-11 is just one of the many scriptures in the Bible that shows the evildoers will be cut off and the ones hoping in God will possess the earth. When Jesus was on earth, his message was about God’s Kingdom and how it would bring blessings to mankind. God created mankind to live forever on this earth without dying, but Adam and Eve sinned and we inherited that sin, which is why we grow old, get sick, and die. True Christens are foot-step followers of Christ and share the same message with people that he did. That is what God wants us to be doing. The hell-fire doctrine is a lie and Satan is responsible for spreading that lie. Lies about Jesus and God alienate people from them and that’s what Satan wants. He challenged Jehovah’s right to rule people from the beginning when he lied to Eve in the Garden of Eden. Jehovah will destroy him and all his demons, and his faithful ones will see his purpose fulfilled and see their loved ones resurrected back to earth and given a chance for everlasting life. So we all have a choice to make. We can choose Jehovah, the almighty creator, and have everlasting life, or we can side with Satan and his wicked lies, and be cut off from life eternally.

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:
Jean,
When you are finished send it my way and I shall post it. :)Louie Giglio doesn’t prey on children. If it is anyone. That is you. I know Louie Giglio personally, and the church he pastors is full of people ages 1-80 there are plenty of adults who follow Louie. I believe your being prideful about what he does.

Please answer this question:

Would you send anyone to Passion 2013?

Do you advocate the music group “Jesus Culture”?

Did you investigate the information I posted? If not here it is again:

I do not endorse this website because it is Calvinist, but that does not negate the collection of information on Giglio found here that I could not locate elsewhere done is such a comprehensive fashion.

http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/

Our holy God hates error and anything that distorts His Word – why should we not feel the same way while separating the sin from the sinner?

When you have done so, then you will be qualified to comment. Otherwise you are just giving your opinion.

Jean,

When you are finished send it my way and I shall post it. 🙂

Louie Giglio doesn’t prey on children. If it is anyone. That is you. I know Louie Giglio personally, and the church he pastors is full of people ages 1-80 there are plenty of adults who follow Louie. I believe your being prideful about what he does.

Justin, you should pray long and hard before presenting Giglio’s material to young minds for which you are responsible.

There are times when truth is spoken and it seems harsh, but we are to defend the faith for which our Lord suffered and died. It is like alerting someone of danger as a favor.

As for Giglio’s doctrinal statement, it is not a reliable guideline. In many cases it is just window dressing to cloak the error lurking behind.

If you do research on “Passion 2013” and the musical group Jesus Culture, you will find enough good reasons to avoid Giglio.

I do not endorse this website because it is Calvinist, but that does not negate the collection of information on Giglio found here that I could not locate elsewhere done is such a comprehensive fashion.

http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/

Our holy God hates error and anything that distorts His Word – why should we not feel the same way while separating the sin from the sinner?

Jeff

09 – How to Become a Child of God

Can you teach us how to follow the Bible/God/Word of God/Jesus?

Revelation 20:13-15
King James Version (KJV)
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

1 Corinthians 15:55-57
King James Version (KJV)
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The good news, Milo, is that there is no more sting for us who believe/obey Jesus Christ as Saviour.

The bad news is that if you don’t accept Christ as your victory over death, then the sting remains.

And there IS a literal lake of fire. You must take up the argument with our Lord Jesus Himself because He spoke of it often. And take the story of the rich man and Lazarus – the man begged to let his family know that he would be grateful for just a drop of water!

Are you an anniliationist? Hell is a real, literal place and the Bible says so.

Mark 9:43, 48 Luke 16:19-31 Revelation 21:8; 14:11

I am sure that others can do an even better job of presenting this.