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	Comments on: False Foundation of Five-Fold Ministry	</title>
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	<description>Discerning Biblical Answers for Christians in Todays World</description>
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		<title>
		By: Deborah (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/16/false-foundation-of-five-fold-ministry/#comment-441990</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deborah (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2015 15:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=7193#comment-441990</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Maresu

I am sorry but you are talking absolute nonsense. You are &lt;strong&gt;not &lt;/strong&gt;a little god.  Read this article to understand scripture PROPERLY.  &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/01/17/the-bible-says-i-said-you-are-gods-but-is-this-entirely-true/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Bible says, “I said, You are gods” – But is this entirely true?&lt;/a&gt;  

---------------
FRENCH

Maresu

Je suis désolé, mais vous parlez non-sens absolu. Vous n&#039;êtes pas un petit dieu. Lisez cet article pour comprendre l&#039;Ecriture CORRECTEMENT. &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/01/17/the-bible-says-i-said-you-are-gods-but-is-this-entirely-true/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Bible says, “I said, You are gods” – But is this entirely true?&lt;/a&gt;  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maresu</p>
<p>I am sorry but you are talking absolute nonsense. You are <strong>not </strong>a little god.  Read this article to understand scripture PROPERLY.  <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/01/17/the-bible-says-i-said-you-are-gods-but-is-this-entirely-true/"  rel="nofollow">The Bible says, “I said, You are gods” – But is this entirely true?</a>  </p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
FRENCH</p>
<p>Maresu</p>
<p>Je suis désolé, mais vous parlez non-sens absolu. Vous n&#8217;êtes pas un petit dieu. Lisez cet article pour comprendre l&#8217;Ecriture CORRECTEMENT. <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/01/17/the-bible-says-i-said-you-are-gods-but-is-this-entirely-true/"  rel="nofollow">The Bible says, “I said, You are gods” – But is this entirely true?</a>  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Shanda		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/16/false-foundation-of-five-fold-ministry/#comment-218646</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shanda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 06:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=7193#comment-218646</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wow, reading these comments has really been an opener for me &#038; it is affirmation of the importance of studying the bible. To study: to apply one&#039;s mind purposefully to the acquisition of knowledge or understanding of (a subject); to examine closely, to scrutinize.  

I believe that living in the United States of America in the 21st century and with English as our primary language, we are challenged with knowing truth because: 
1. English is not the original language of the bible. It was written in Hebrew, Aramic, &#038; Greek.
2. The bible was translated from these languages into Latin by the Catholich Church and then further translated from Latin to English. This definitely lends to things being misinterpreted.
3. A lot of believers are ignorant of Hebrew &#038; Greek culture, &#038; of the original languages.
4. The Catholic Church did not include all books of the bible that we read today &#038; have altered information.  For example, a &quot;bishop&quot; is a man created position and the Catholic Church believes bishops are the successors of apostles as according to Catholicism, apostles no longer exist!!!

Whether it is believing or not believing in apostles, prophets, gifts of the Spirit, etc.; it would behoove ALL of US to &quot;investigate, examine&quot; the bible through doing a lot of historical research so that we understand the original languages, the culture of that time, which leads to understanding why scripture was written to whom it was addressed to &#038; who said it. May I also suggest that ALL of US study the Catholic Church as a lot of modern beliefs that are not biblical but man created derived out of Catholicism including the current hierarchial structure of most denominations!!!

To reach a conclusion that apostles and prophets no longer exist just based on quoting two scriptures is insufficient.  Investigating, researching, reading...all lead to a deeper knowledge of the bible then some of the surface answers we give. Let&#039;s not forget revelatory knowledge, which comes through Holy Spirit illuminating scripture.

May our love for Christ draw us closer to Him &#038; let it burn a deeper passion for the pursuit of truth and revelation.

In Christ,
Shanda]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, reading these comments has really been an opener for me &amp; it is affirmation of the importance of studying the bible. To study: to apply one&#8217;s mind purposefully to the acquisition of knowledge or understanding of (a subject); to examine closely, to scrutinize.  </p>
<p>I believe that living in the United States of America in the 21st century and with English as our primary language, we are challenged with knowing truth because:<br />
1. English is not the original language of the bible. It was written in Hebrew, Aramic, &amp; Greek.<br />
2. The bible was translated from these languages into Latin by the Catholich Church and then further translated from Latin to English. This definitely lends to things being misinterpreted.<br />
3. A lot of believers are ignorant of Hebrew &amp; Greek culture, &amp; of the original languages.<br />
4. The Catholic Church did not include all books of the bible that we read today &amp; have altered information.  For example, a &#8220;bishop&#8221; is a man created position and the Catholic Church believes bishops are the successors of apostles as according to Catholicism, apostles no longer exist!!!</p>
<p>Whether it is believing or not believing in apostles, prophets, gifts of the Spirit, etc.; it would behoove ALL of US to &#8220;investigate, examine&#8221; the bible through doing a lot of historical research so that we understand the original languages, the culture of that time, which leads to understanding why scripture was written to whom it was addressed to &amp; who said it. May I also suggest that ALL of US study the Catholic Church as a lot of modern beliefs that are not biblical but man created derived out of Catholicism including the current hierarchial structure of most denominations!!!</p>
<p>To reach a conclusion that apostles and prophets no longer exist just based on quoting two scriptures is insufficient.  Investigating, researching, reading&#8230;all lead to a deeper knowledge of the bible then some of the surface answers we give. Let&#8217;s not forget revelatory knowledge, which comes through Holy Spirit illuminating scripture.</p>
<p>May our love for Christ draw us closer to Him &amp; let it burn a deeper passion for the pursuit of truth and revelation.</p>
<p>In Christ,<br />
Shanda</p>
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		<title>
		By: anon		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/16/false-foundation-of-five-fold-ministry/#comment-215843</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=7193#comment-215843</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you Duane, I thought your answer was very good.

Further comments regarding my other response: I would like to clarify that I do think it is important for ministers and even prophets and apostles to receive mentorship, but I do not think that those called to be apostles and prophets should have to pay someone to train them.

Further comments about AMI/Les Crause: Let me clarify that I have nothing against them personally. I am merely concerned about possible deception in that ministry. As with so many ministries out there today, it is possible that they have mixed truth with error. And that is dangerous because if the Spirit of Truth is not in a ministry then there are other deceiving spirits there. I have no problem being corrected if I am wrong. But WHY do people always get emotional and defensive about the ministers whom they follow? Is it because they are concerned that they might find out they were deceived all this time? Don&#039;t you think it is more important to defend Jesus and the unadulterated gospel than ministers?

Further comments about AMI:
1) They invented a 5-fold business calling (this is unscriptural)
2) They promote the use of positive confession/word of faith techniques which are used by the prosperity gospel. This is not the true gospel of Jesus Christ. While I do see God as our father in heaven who loves us, He is not a giant casino slot machine in the sky who spews out blessings as we demand. Let us also remember Jesus and his disciples had a hard life here on earth....Jesus was hated, persecuted, nearly killed by herod, beaten, and crucified. His disciples were persecuted, Peter and Paul were in prison, Stephen was stoned to death, Peter was crusified upside down, TImothy had illnesses, Paul had a thorn in his flesh (we don&#039;t know what it was)......And let us not forget about that great tribulation prophesied about in the book of revelations - yippeee, we are all really looking forward to that time of blessing and abundance! You won&#039;t be able to confess that away with hope, faith, and love!
3) When you ask them questions they don&#039;t give you answers, they tell you to buy their book to find the answer.
4) You are not allowed to question anything....you have to stick strictly to their doctrine. For example: they will say that poverty is from the devil. If you argue that your poverty is your own fault because you chose a career that pays badly, they won&#039;t see the common sense about the physical and structural limitations in this world and the system we live in, and will continue to say poverty is from the devil because their doctirne is that everything that is not blessing is from the devil (even a glass falling off your kitchen counter is a sign of a curse according to them).

Lastly I would like to validate that my comments about AMI are from my experience with them while I studied a course through them, and that is how I have come to see how they operate. I am not a prophet but was doing a course about prayer. I would also like to add that I came under heavy spiritual attack while I was doing this course (my course lecturer was allegedly a prophet)...when I shared with the lecturer about the spiritual attacks I was told that this was the way that God was giving me practical training about spiritual warfare.  Once Jesus opened my eyes I became aware of the link between my involvement with them and the attacks...I discontinued the course and the spiritual attacks stopped. 

Dodgy if you ask me...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Duane, I thought your answer was very good.</p>
<p>Further comments regarding my other response: I would like to clarify that I do think it is important for ministers and even prophets and apostles to receive mentorship, but I do not think that those called to be apostles and prophets should have to pay someone to train them.</p>
<p>Further comments about AMI/Les Crause: Let me clarify that I have nothing against them personally. I am merely concerned about possible deception in that ministry. As with so many ministries out there today, it is possible that they have mixed truth with error. And that is dangerous because if the Spirit of Truth is not in a ministry then there are other deceiving spirits there. I have no problem being corrected if I am wrong. But WHY do people always get emotional and defensive about the ministers whom they follow? Is it because they are concerned that they might find out they were deceived all this time? Don&#8217;t you think it is more important to defend Jesus and the unadulterated gospel than ministers?</p>
<p>Further comments about AMI:<br />
1) They invented a 5-fold business calling (this is unscriptural)<br />
2) They promote the use of positive confession/word of faith techniques which are used by the prosperity gospel. This is not the true gospel of Jesus Christ. While I do see God as our father in heaven who loves us, He is not a giant casino slot machine in the sky who spews out blessings as we demand. Let us also remember Jesus and his disciples had a hard life here on earth&#8230;.Jesus was hated, persecuted, nearly killed by herod, beaten, and crucified. His disciples were persecuted, Peter and Paul were in prison, Stephen was stoned to death, Peter was crusified upside down, TImothy had illnesses, Paul had a thorn in his flesh (we don&#8217;t know what it was)&#8230;&#8230;And let us not forget about that great tribulation prophesied about in the book of revelations &#8211; yippeee, we are all really looking forward to that time of blessing and abundance! You won&#8217;t be able to confess that away with hope, faith, and love!<br />
3) When you ask them questions they don&#8217;t give you answers, they tell you to buy their book to find the answer.<br />
4) You are not allowed to question anything&#8230;.you have to stick strictly to their doctrine. For example: they will say that poverty is from the devil. If you argue that your poverty is your own fault because you chose a career that pays badly, they won&#8217;t see the common sense about the physical and structural limitations in this world and the system we live in, and will continue to say poverty is from the devil because their doctirne is that everything that is not blessing is from the devil (even a glass falling off your kitchen counter is a sign of a curse according to them).</p>
<p>Lastly I would like to validate that my comments about AMI are from my experience with them while I studied a course through them, and that is how I have come to see how they operate. I am not a prophet but was doing a course about prayer. I would also like to add that I came under heavy spiritual attack while I was doing this course (my course lecturer was allegedly a prophet)&#8230;when I shared with the lecturer about the spiritual attacks I was told that this was the way that God was giving me practical training about spiritual warfare.  Once Jesus opened my eyes I became aware of the link between my involvement with them and the attacks&#8230;I discontinued the course and the spiritual attacks stopped. </p>
<p>Dodgy if you ask me&#8230;</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: anon		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/16/false-foundation-of-five-fold-ministry/#comment-215842</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=7193#comment-215842</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As far as I know an apostle and a prophet do not necessarily have to be in a full time ministry. There are many true apostles and prophets who have decided not to use the gospel or their sGod-given gifts to make a living, and they have a job to pay their bills and do their ministry part time. In any case, Jesus Christ taught his disciples everything for free - He did not charge them money for teaching them how to teach, preach, heal, pray etc. And our highest ministry example should always be Jesus Christ. Jesus and His disciples also carried out their entire ministry for free. They never charged for any ministry, whether it was teaching, prophecy, healing, prayer, or counselling. Even today Jesus Christ would teach and lead His true chosen prophets and apostles  for free....there is no need for a ministry to teach people how to become apostles and prophets. Yes, they do need to have a sound knowledge of the Bible...but that is different to the actual spiritual gifting of a prophet or an apostle which can only occur through the Holy Spirit.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I know an apostle and a prophet do not necessarily have to be in a full time ministry. There are many true apostles and prophets who have decided not to use the gospel or their sGod-given gifts to make a living, and they have a job to pay their bills and do their ministry part time. In any case, Jesus Christ taught his disciples everything for free &#8211; He did not charge them money for teaching them how to teach, preach, heal, pray etc. And our highest ministry example should always be Jesus Christ. Jesus and His disciples also carried out their entire ministry for free. They never charged for any ministry, whether it was teaching, prophecy, healing, prayer, or counselling. Even today Jesus Christ would teach and lead His true chosen prophets and apostles  for free&#8230;.there is no need for a ministry to teach people how to become apostles and prophets. Yes, they do need to have a sound knowledge of the Bible&#8230;but that is different to the actual spiritual gifting of a prophet or an apostle which can only occur through the Holy Spirit.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Jay		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/16/false-foundation-of-five-fold-ministry/#comment-215392</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 17:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=7193#comment-215392</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I respect all of you guys opinion with regard to the &quot;fivefold ministry.&quot; Some may say that there is no need for fivefold ministry others say Les Crause is a quack; neither is true. One thing to keep in mind is that ministy is a business. Unless you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, being in ministry f/t can be challenging financially(all that said in a very soft tone and with love). When you have administrators to pay, utilities, equipment, fees incurred when self publishing, travel, children, mortgage, food for your family, feeding the poor out of your own storehouse (these days not many people are donating to ministries for the poor, cause many have found themselves in the poor house), money for your own continuing education so you can continue to spiritually feed others, the list goes on. The finances for these things have to come from somewhere. We are not living in Jesus&#039; day, nor in the country he resided and neither of the cities to which he traveled. 

We live in not just america but in north america, more specifically the united states of america, where capitalism rules. Unless you are already financially secure try running a ministry/business full-time continually paying for things out of your pocket and see how long your vision last, see how long you can maintain payroll and take care of your family. It takes finances my friends. Brothers and sisters investigate beyond viewing Les&#039;s website. Buy a book, make use of the practical projects in each one. 

I was homeless in 2008 when I moved to Greensboro N.C. AMI&#039;s teaching changed my life! I was so thrilled when I got my first book from them and started applying the principles. I was depressed, suicidal, hungry, hopeless, but I stepped out on faith and God opened the door for me to start purchasing a book here, a book there and eventually different courses. I signed up for there daily devotions and that&#039;s what helped me to make it through each day. I&#039;m telling you if I did not have those teachings I would&#039;ve either killed somebody, myself or both. Its not just theory in those books, its very practical stuff, that if you let it sink in your spiritual life will change. My finances changed as well but that was only after I fully developed my relationship with the Lord and saught the kingdom first. I was doing it in reverse which is why my life was screwed up. 

As far as his family being prophetic, your children have whatever spiritual giftings you have, its matter of if you&#039;re gonna help them develop it. As far as his wife being prophetic, I mean if you ask God for something specific in a spouse, would it not be possible for him to give you a spouse that has all the qualities you ask for? Or at the very least someone who has a teachable spirit and would allow God to use you to train them in their latent gifts and talents, whatever they may be.

MY LOVING FRIENDS PLEASE KNOW THIS ABOUT AMI.......ONE OF THE CORE TEACHINGS ON THE PROPHETIC IS THIS: PROPHECY IS LESS ABOUT RUNNING AROUND GIVEN &quot;A WORD&quot; TO SOMEBODY, ITS ABOUT DECREEING. WHEN GOD SHOWS YOU SOMETHING ABOUT SOMEBODY, DON&#039;T GO RUNNING UP TO PEOPLE OR TRYING TO SHOW BOAT IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH; RATHER BEGIN TO PRAY AND DECREE THAT WHATEVER ITS IS COMES TO FRUITION IN THE PERSON&#039;S LIFE; OR IF THE LORD SHOWS YOU SOMETHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO SOMEONE DON&#039;T GO RUN UP TO SOMEBODY AND SAY &quot;SAY HEY GOD SHOWED ME YOU GONNA GET IN AN ACCIDENT BECOME PARALYZE ETC&quot;, THAT BRINGS FEAR AND THAT IS NOT OF THE LORD, RATHER YOU TAKE YOUR AUTHORITY AS A PROPHET AND YOU SPEAK AGAINST WHAT IT IS THE ENEMY WANTS TO DO TO THEM. LESS ABOUT PROPHISYING TO PEOPLE AND MORE ABOUT USING YOUR AUTHORITY TO DECREE. REMEMBER THAT IF NOTHING ELSE.

ON ANOTHER NOTE, THE NEED DOES STILL EXIST FOR PROHPHETS/APOSTLES. THERE FAKE ONES OUT THERE THOUGH, BUT LES ISN&#039;T ONE. PEOPLE STILL NEED DIRECTION, AND THE SAD FACT IS MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THE CHURCH HAVE NOT DEVELOPED AN EAR TO HEAR GOD FOR THEMSELVES (I SHOULD KNOW, I WAS ONE OF THEM) SO THEY EITHER RUN TO A PSYCHIC LOOKING FOR THEIR LIFE PURPOSE OR SOME WITCH DOCTOR TO HELP BRING LUCK INTO THEIR LIVES; AND THEN ASK FOR FORGIVENESS LATER. PROPHETS ARE NEEDED TO HELP IDENTIFY GIFT AND CALLINGS IN PEOPLES LIVES THAT THE PERSON MAY NOT KNOW EVEN EXIST OR MAY KNOW BUT NOT SURE THAT&#039;S HOW GOD WANTS THEM TO FUNCTION IN MINISTRY/BUSINESS. SO SOMEONE WITH PROPHETIC INSIGHT CAN IDENTIFY THE GIFT OR TALENT AND POINT THEM IN THE DIRECTION WHERE THEY CAN CULTIVATE IT.

I BROUGHT MY MOTHER BOOKS FROM AMI AND MY GIRLFRIEND AND WE HAVE ALL BENEFITTED TREMENDOUSLY. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THEIR MINISTRY CALL ME PERSONALLY. WE ARE NOT GOING TO REMONSTRATE OVER WHETHER OR NOT LES AND HIS FAMILY ARE LEGIT OR IF PROPHETIC MINISTRY IS NECCESSARY, BUT I WILL BE WILLINGLY TO SHARE IN LOVE WHAT I&#039;VE LEARNED. 919-683-1283 ASK FOR JAY. OR YOU CAN JUST DO THE MATURE THING AND CALL AMI PERSONALLY(WHICH COULD&#039;VE EASILY BEEN DONE BEFORE POSTING ANYTHING) AND ASK THE FRIENDLY STAFF ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE ABOUT PROPHETIC MINISTRY, BUT DON&#039;T CALL WANTING TO ARGUE OR WITH A COMBATIVE SPIRIT, ASK IN SINCERITY, CURIOUSITY AND SPEAK WITH LOVE IN YOUR VOICE, NOT CONTEMPT. THEY WILL HELP. 

KIND REGARDS
JAY]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I respect all of you guys opinion with regard to the &#8220;fivefold ministry.&#8221; Some may say that there is no need for fivefold ministry others say Les Crause is a quack; neither is true. One thing to keep in mind is that ministy is a business. Unless you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, being in ministry f/t can be challenging financially(all that said in a very soft tone and with love). When you have administrators to pay, utilities, equipment, fees incurred when self publishing, travel, children, mortgage, food for your family, feeding the poor out of your own storehouse (these days not many people are donating to ministries for the poor, cause many have found themselves in the poor house), money for your own continuing education so you can continue to spiritually feed others, the list goes on. The finances for these things have to come from somewhere. We are not living in Jesus&#8217; day, nor in the country he resided and neither of the cities to which he traveled. </p>
<p>We live in not just america but in north america, more specifically the united states of america, where capitalism rules. Unless you are already financially secure try running a ministry/business full-time continually paying for things out of your pocket and see how long your vision last, see how long you can maintain payroll and take care of your family. It takes finances my friends. Brothers and sisters investigate beyond viewing Les&#8217;s website. Buy a book, make use of the practical projects in each one. </p>
<p>I was homeless in 2008 when I moved to Greensboro N.C. AMI&#8217;s teaching changed my life! I was so thrilled when I got my first book from them and started applying the principles. I was depressed, suicidal, hungry, hopeless, but I stepped out on faith and God opened the door for me to start purchasing a book here, a book there and eventually different courses. I signed up for there daily devotions and that&#8217;s what helped me to make it through each day. I&#8217;m telling you if I did not have those teachings I would&#8217;ve either killed somebody, myself or both. Its not just theory in those books, its very practical stuff, that if you let it sink in your spiritual life will change. My finances changed as well but that was only after I fully developed my relationship with the Lord and saught the kingdom first. I was doing it in reverse which is why my life was screwed up. </p>
<p>As far as his family being prophetic, your children have whatever spiritual giftings you have, its matter of if you&#8217;re gonna help them develop it. As far as his wife being prophetic, I mean if you ask God for something specific in a spouse, would it not be possible for him to give you a spouse that has all the qualities you ask for? Or at the very least someone who has a teachable spirit and would allow God to use you to train them in their latent gifts and talents, whatever they may be.</p>
<p>MY LOVING FRIENDS PLEASE KNOW THIS ABOUT AMI&#8230;&#8230;.ONE OF THE CORE TEACHINGS ON THE PROPHETIC IS THIS: PROPHECY IS LESS ABOUT RUNNING AROUND GIVEN &#8220;A WORD&#8221; TO SOMEBODY, ITS ABOUT DECREEING. WHEN GOD SHOWS YOU SOMETHING ABOUT SOMEBODY, DON&#8217;T GO RUNNING UP TO PEOPLE OR TRYING TO SHOW BOAT IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH; RATHER BEGIN TO PRAY AND DECREE THAT WHATEVER ITS IS COMES TO FRUITION IN THE PERSON&#8217;S LIFE; OR IF THE LORD SHOWS YOU SOMETHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO SOMEONE DON&#8217;T GO RUN UP TO SOMEBODY AND SAY &#8220;SAY HEY GOD SHOWED ME YOU GONNA GET IN AN ACCIDENT BECOME PARALYZE ETC&#8221;, THAT BRINGS FEAR AND THAT IS NOT OF THE LORD, RATHER YOU TAKE YOUR AUTHORITY AS A PROPHET AND YOU SPEAK AGAINST WHAT IT IS THE ENEMY WANTS TO DO TO THEM. LESS ABOUT PROPHISYING TO PEOPLE AND MORE ABOUT USING YOUR AUTHORITY TO DECREE. REMEMBER THAT IF NOTHING ELSE.</p>
<p>ON ANOTHER NOTE, THE NEED DOES STILL EXIST FOR PROHPHETS/APOSTLES. THERE FAKE ONES OUT THERE THOUGH, BUT LES ISN&#8217;T ONE. PEOPLE STILL NEED DIRECTION, AND THE SAD FACT IS MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THE CHURCH HAVE NOT DEVELOPED AN EAR TO HEAR GOD FOR THEMSELVES (I SHOULD KNOW, I WAS ONE OF THEM) SO THEY EITHER RUN TO A PSYCHIC LOOKING FOR THEIR LIFE PURPOSE OR SOME WITCH DOCTOR TO HELP BRING LUCK INTO THEIR LIVES; AND THEN ASK FOR FORGIVENESS LATER. PROPHETS ARE NEEDED TO HELP IDENTIFY GIFT AND CALLINGS IN PEOPLES LIVES THAT THE PERSON MAY NOT KNOW EVEN EXIST OR MAY KNOW BUT NOT SURE THAT&#8217;S HOW GOD WANTS THEM TO FUNCTION IN MINISTRY/BUSINESS. SO SOMEONE WITH PROPHETIC INSIGHT CAN IDENTIFY THE GIFT OR TALENT AND POINT THEM IN THE DIRECTION WHERE THEY CAN CULTIVATE IT.</p>
<p>I BROUGHT MY MOTHER BOOKS FROM AMI AND MY GIRLFRIEND AND WE HAVE ALL BENEFITTED TREMENDOUSLY. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THEIR MINISTRY CALL ME PERSONALLY. WE ARE NOT GOING TO REMONSTRATE OVER WHETHER OR NOT LES AND HIS FAMILY ARE LEGIT OR IF PROPHETIC MINISTRY IS NECCESSARY, BUT I WILL BE WILLINGLY TO SHARE IN LOVE WHAT I&#8217;VE LEARNED. 919-683-1283 ASK FOR JAY. OR YOU CAN JUST DO THE MATURE THING AND CALL AMI PERSONALLY(WHICH COULD&#8217;VE EASILY BEEN DONE BEFORE POSTING ANYTHING) AND ASK THE FRIENDLY STAFF ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE ABOUT PROPHETIC MINISTRY, BUT DON&#8217;T CALL WANTING TO ARGUE OR WITH A COMBATIVE SPIRIT, ASK IN SINCERITY, CURIOUSITY AND SPEAK WITH LOVE IN YOUR VOICE, NOT CONTEMPT. THEY WILL HELP. </p>
<p>KIND REGARDS<br />
JAY</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Duane		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/16/false-foundation-of-five-fold-ministry/#comment-168182</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Duane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2011 21:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=7193#comment-168182</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I see, Anon, that nobody has responded with your requested feedback.  I just discovered this website and feel compelled to answer you somehow.  I have not heard of this so-called apostle, but judging by what you have said, I believe without a doubt that they are not legit.  I believe that the offices of the apostle and prophets have ceased based on Ephesians 2:20 &#038; I Cor. 3:11.  Apostles in the strictest sense of the word were necessary for the establishing of the first century church and the completing of the canon of Scripture. In a more loose sense of the term, a missionary could be considered an apostle because the literal definition of apostle is &quot;one sent with authority.&quot;  God sent the original apostles to establish the church.  He can also through others, send someone to another part of the world to preach or evangelize.  However, God will give NO ONE the ability to restart or reinvent the church like the NAR(New Apostolic Reformation) claims to do.  Those people are heretics!!! 
Nobody can be trained to be an apostle.  It is a gift, a calling given by God Himself, not a family appointed job description.
Same is true of prophets.  God used them to speak words to fulfill what was yet to be written down in scripture as future events---some of which have happened since the Bible was written and some which are yet to be fulfilled like nearly the entire Book of Revelation.  
 I distinguish between the GIFT of prophecy and apostleship/modern day evangelist or missionary and the OFFICE of the prophet and the apostle.  Clearly no one today can claim those two offices as job titles or create a stage show or revenue from self-appointed revelations of grand delusion.  However, that is not to say that God can&#039;t still today allow prophecies to be spoken for the edification of a person/persons if what is spoken aligns with the written Word of God which is the absolute standard for any and all so-called spoken revelation.
The debate rages regarding I Cor.13:8  When will these gifts disappear.  Some believe they have with the closing of the biblical canon.  I believe the gifts are still active today, but they are simply that--- GIFTS which God gives arbitrarily to individuals at various times in various places unexpectedly---without regard for making a show, a spectacle, or a career out of it.  Those that use their supposed OFFICE to get rich at the expense of God&#039;s people are abusing whatever gift they think the have and are UTTERLY DESPICABLE.  If I start naming names, this post will get too long, which it already is.  Hope this helps answer your question.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see, Anon, that nobody has responded with your requested feedback.  I just discovered this website and feel compelled to answer you somehow.  I have not heard of this so-called apostle, but judging by what you have said, I believe without a doubt that they are not legit.  I believe that the offices of the apostle and prophets have ceased based on Ephesians 2:20 &amp; I Cor. 3:11.  Apostles in the strictest sense of the word were necessary for the establishing of the first century church and the completing of the canon of Scripture. In a more loose sense of the term, a missionary could be considered an apostle because the literal definition of apostle is &#8220;one sent with authority.&#8221;  God sent the original apostles to establish the church.  He can also through others, send someone to another part of the world to preach or evangelize.  However, God will give NO ONE the ability to restart or reinvent the church like the NAR(New Apostolic Reformation) claims to do.  Those people are heretics!!!<br />
Nobody can be trained to be an apostle.  It is a gift, a calling given by God Himself, not a family appointed job description.<br />
Same is true of prophets.  God used them to speak words to fulfill what was yet to be written down in scripture as future events&#8212;some of which have happened since the Bible was written and some which are yet to be fulfilled like nearly the entire Book of Revelation.<br />
 I distinguish between the GIFT of prophecy and apostleship/modern day evangelist or missionary and the OFFICE of the prophet and the apostle.  Clearly no one today can claim those two offices as job titles or create a stage show or revenue from self-appointed revelations of grand delusion.  However, that is not to say that God can&#8217;t still today allow prophecies to be spoken for the edification of a person/persons if what is spoken aligns with the written Word of God which is the absolute standard for any and all so-called spoken revelation.<br />
The debate rages regarding I Cor.13:8  When will these gifts disappear.  Some believe they have with the closing of the biblical canon.  I believe the gifts are still active today, but they are simply that&#8212; GIFTS which God gives arbitrarily to individuals at various times in various places unexpectedly&#8212;without regard for making a show, a spectacle, or a career out of it.  Those that use their supposed OFFICE to get rich at the expense of God&#8217;s people are abusing whatever gift they think the have and are UTTERLY DESPICABLE.  If I start naming names, this post will get too long, which it already is.  Hope this helps answer your question.</p>
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		<title>
		By: anon		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/16/false-foundation-of-five-fold-ministry/#comment-144557</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 May 2011 00:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=7193#comment-144557</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Has anyone here heard of Apostle Les Crause who has founded Apostolic Ministries International (AMI -   which is an online 5-fold ministry training school?!?!?

Some aspects about this 5-fold ministry training school are bothering me:
1) Jesus taught His disciples for FREE 
2) At AMI they charge exhorbitant prices for their books and e-downloads
3) It appears to be a family business with numerous prophets and apostles within one 
   family running the ministry/school......(I don&#039;t recall this type of thing 
   happening in the Bible, where a husband and wife are both apostles and prophets, 
   and so are all their children.....)In such instances, how do we know if they didn&#039;t 
   all end up being lecturers at the training school because they needed jobs/salaries?
4) At AMI a student can be ordained as a prophet or apostle only by the leadership of 
   that ministry (what are the chances of deception there?!?! One can only 
   wonder....especially in light of point number 3 above)
5) Apostle Les Crause has apparently changed his name to Bill Yinaire (Billionaire - 
   get it?!?!) in faith that God will make him rich....He says if Abraham can do 
   it, then so can he....Only thing is that God gave Abraham a new name, Abraham 
   didn&#039;t give himself a new name...Les Crause has also had new revelation of a new 5-
   fold Business Calling which he has added onto the 5-fold ministry. The basis for 
   this &quot;Business calling&quot; looks very much like the prosperity gospel. Although it 
   seems to be disguised by the motive of releasing worldly money to advance the 
   Kingdom of God.

Their website looks fancy and they have a lot of information on it. But the above points bother me. Am I wrong? Has anybody else heard of them? I am only wondering because there seem to be so many false ministries out there nowadays and discernment is crucial. Especially when we are talking about the prophetic....Sorry if I have offended anyone. Looking forward to some feedback!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone here heard of Apostle Les Crause who has founded Apostolic Ministries International (AMI &#8211;   which is an online 5-fold ministry training school?!?!?</p>
<p>Some aspects about this 5-fold ministry training school are bothering me:<br />
1) Jesus taught His disciples for FREE<br />
2) At AMI they charge exhorbitant prices for their books and e-downloads<br />
3) It appears to be a family business with numerous prophets and apostles within one<br />
   family running the ministry/school&#8230;&#8230;(I don&#8217;t recall this type of thing<br />
   happening in the Bible, where a husband and wife are both apostles and prophets,<br />
   and so are all their children&#8230;..)In such instances, how do we know if they didn&#8217;t<br />
   all end up being lecturers at the training school because they needed jobs/salaries?<br />
4) At AMI a student can be ordained as a prophet or apostle only by the leadership of<br />
   that ministry (what are the chances of deception there?!?! One can only<br />
   wonder&#8230;.especially in light of point number 3 above)<br />
5) Apostle Les Crause has apparently changed his name to Bill Yinaire (Billionaire &#8211;<br />
   get it?!?!) in faith that God will make him rich&#8230;.He says if Abraham can do<br />
   it, then so can he&#8230;.Only thing is that God gave Abraham a new name, Abraham<br />
   didn&#8217;t give himself a new name&#8230;Les Crause has also had new revelation of a new 5-<br />
   fold Business Calling which he has added onto the 5-fold ministry. The basis for<br />
   this &#8220;Business calling&#8221; looks very much like the prosperity gospel. Although it<br />
   seems to be disguised by the motive of releasing worldly money to advance the<br />
   Kingdom of God.</p>
<p>Their website looks fancy and they have a lot of information on it. But the above points bother me. Am I wrong? Has anybody else heard of them? I am only wondering because there seem to be so many false ministries out there nowadays and discernment is crucial. Especially when we are talking about the prophetic&#8230;.Sorry if I have offended anyone. Looking forward to some feedback!</p>
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		<title>
		By: axlotle		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/16/false-foundation-of-five-fold-ministry/#comment-134928</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[axlotle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Apr 2011 09:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=7193#comment-134928</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Although I do not necessarily agree with your point of view Deborah, it always amazes me how proponents of Five Fold Ministry fail to make their point through an appeal to scripture  can readily they dismiss you comments smacking of a self righteous, puffed up spiritual pride. This is more sickening than their doctrine which may or may not be injurious to the church. By the way Return2sender - there is no discernment apart from the word. Spirits are discerned by whether they profess error or truth as laid out in the scriptures, not by a gut feeling, a liver shiver, or ecstatic trance. Hence why certain Christians debate points of theological and biblical difference. They are (hopefully)in a spirit of humility trying to arrive at the best possible understanding of the teaching of the whole of scripture through interaction with the community of Gods people. The community within which God meant for us to learn and grow.

 Return2Sender wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Well done Kingstrust
Do you detect a rebellious spirit coming against you..
Now watch it come against me, as they do not believe in gifts they would not know how the spirit of discerning of spirits works.
God Bless you Kinstrust
&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I do not necessarily agree with your point of view Deborah, it always amazes me how proponents of Five Fold Ministry fail to make their point through an appeal to scripture  can readily they dismiss you comments smacking of a self righteous, puffed up spiritual pride. This is more sickening than their doctrine which may or may not be injurious to the church. By the way Return2sender &#8211; there is no discernment apart from the word. Spirits are discerned by whether they profess error or truth as laid out in the scriptures, not by a gut feeling, a liver shiver, or ecstatic trance. Hence why certain Christians debate points of theological and biblical difference. They are (hopefully)in a spirit of humility trying to arrive at the best possible understanding of the teaching of the whole of scripture through interaction with the community of Gods people. The community within which God meant for us to learn and grow.</p>
<p> Return2Sender wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Well done Kingstrust<br />
Do you detect a rebellious spirit coming against you..<br />
Now watch it come against me, as they do not believe in gifts they would not know how the spirit of discerning of spirits works.<br />
God Bless you Kinstrust
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: Deborah (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/16/false-foundation-of-five-fold-ministry/#comment-127176</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deborah (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=7193#comment-127176</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/16/false-foundation-of-five-fold-ministry/#comment-125938&quot;&gt;Return2Sender&lt;/a&gt;.

*lets ALL remain really quiet and not say a word*]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/16/false-foundation-of-five-fold-ministry/#comment-125938" >Return2Sender</a>.</p>
<p>*lets ALL remain really quiet and not say a word*</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Return2Sender		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/16/false-foundation-of-five-fold-ministry/#comment-125938</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Return2Sender]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2011 06:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=7193#comment-125938</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well done Kingstrust

Do you detect a rebellious spirit coming against you..

Now watch it come against me, as they do not believe in gifts they would not know how the spirit of discerning of spirits works.

God Bless you Kinstrust]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done Kingstrust</p>
<p>Do you detect a rebellious spirit coming against you..</p>
<p>Now watch it come against me, as they do not believe in gifts they would not know how the spirit of discerning of spirits works.</p>
<p>God Bless you Kinstrust</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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