Michael, thanks 4 your last (long) post, it helped me 2 have a clearer understanding about my believes in God’s Word.
cecilia

Ryan

Either Jesus Christ is Lord and your Savior or you can remain best buddies with the world.

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. (Matthew 10:34-37)

Just wanted to thank you guys for all your responses here 🙂

And also for your email, Deborah. I do appreciate you guys taking the time.

Thanks!!

Ryan

‘If we all come to similar conclusions and the same biblical absolutes, the same Spirit is leading leading us. Either that or we are all (that see things the same way) are being deluded by the same source. But we cannot all be led of the same spirit and come to radically different conclusions.’

Hmm, still not quite there – but you get the jist.

You will quickly come to realize that I, personally, am not ‘open-minded’. I can safely assume that the regular posters on this site are not open-minded either, neither do they have a proclivity to ‘discuss’ things for the sake of discussion. You will quickly find that they have a range of unwavering, unbending absolutes. ‘Rightly dividing the word of truth’ means coming to a definite conclusion, not another discussion. The finer details may be smoothed and readjusted over time but the absolutes remain.

Discernment ministries started as a counter balance to the incredible momentum that apostasy has gained over recent years. You will generally find two camps of Christians (there are way more but for the sake of simplification); those that are in anticipation of Christ’s eminent return and those that are not. Those that are expecting his coming, as direct result, see the foretold apostasy of 2 Thessalonians that comes to smother the warning of our Lord’s return. Apostasy has come in such subtle forms that it will take pages to outline them.

The same way that Israel missed the first coming or their Messiah – even with all the scriptures and prophecies with ‘to-the-day’ accuracy available to them – the church is now in danger of missing his return. Even though they are forewarned…

Which means that the primary purpose of this site – from my vantage point – is to alert Christians to the encroaching apostasy; discernment type ministries are usually a minority within a minority.

It is extremely painful to watch the body of Christ being led into seductions that suffocate the simplicity of the Gospel. Worst of all I personally can see the eschatological, prophetic pattern taking unmistakable shape in our world…and yet so many deny it(the death of the free market being one of them). (I personally am indebted to sound biblical scholars who have over the years pointed many things out to me, there is no way any single person can come up with a balanced worldview and sound biblical knowledge all by himself).
Not to say that I personally know everything, not even close. On the contrary, I am acutely aware that if I was deceived before and I can easily be deceived again. Without the Holy Spirit guiding one into all Truth we are all helpless and rudderless. See this site as just another contribution to exposing the unbiblical and extra-biblical practices in the modern day church.

Maybe you don’t realise but by outlining yourself as being the one more ‘honest and open, passionate and charitable’ and prepared to ‘discuss’ things you have put on your high stilt shoes. And in there you have ‘without compromising the truth’ for extra measure. Yet you are ‘asking questions’ (do you see a contradiction?). Not compromising the truth means you have already been fully persuaded of it.

As concerning the free-market; this is Christian worldview fundamentals, not advanced Christianity. I have no burden of proof to prove anything to you nor am I responsible for defending my case any more than I have already done. You can draw your own conclusions, do your own research.

What I am also fully persuaded of is that is the Holy Spirit is leading and guiding you into all truth you will arrive at the same worldview and the same realization of the perilous hour we are in, as do the the rest of us. Those two aspects open up a whole can of worms. The finer details may differ from person to person, that’s fine and perfectly Ok.

I personally believe that things are going to get whackier and whackier in the modern day church – maybe then the true believers still stuck in some of these institutions will finally realise the times they are living in when it gets to such absurd levels.

I did serve under a Pastor who every single week warned his church of the deception out there, in bone crunching detail. It was also one of the few churches that prayed for Israel from the pulpit. He preached with biblical (double-edged – law & gospel) accuracy. Expositional teaching, line by line, verse by verse – the whole counsel of God. Every member of that church had a very high degree of biblical depth of discernment, they had been well taught and discipled. Yet they were all encouraged to check things out for themselves.

I miss that church…

If every church was like that there would be no such thing as a discernment ministry. Unfortunately someone has to do the work that should actually be done from the pulpit.

Ryan

PS, the issue is not about capitalism being biblical or not, we never said it was biblical, but as the world stands right now, it’s all we have – because what is coming Ryan is not what you think it’s going to be or could be as per your dreams and hopes (you have been indoctrinated with) for the future.

There is NO MIDDLE ground right now – at this moment, at this point in time, in this so called wonderful little world of ours between what you want and what is going to happen. Why, because you actually have no choice in the matter as to what they are going to bring your way. What are you going to buy or sell when you OWN NOTHING to barter with?

What the REAL issue is here is about the Gospel of Jesus Christ as a whole being torn apart and thrown away. If one was to start with your very first comment (not on this article but another of the many you have commented on) it was to defend the Emergents and Amahoro and the interfaith movement.

You might think you are making a giant leap here to side step your initial argument for coming here in the first place, but you can’t because everyone can read and it’s really not difficult to follow the ‘ecumenical dialogue’ throughout this entire blog. There is no middle ground to any of this, you either believe in Jesus Christ and follow Him or you follow the way the world is going.

And no the ‘Christ’ of the Catholics is not Jesus Christ of scripture. So the answer the the question I asked you is: Catholicism is NOT Christian.

Email to me by Ryan Peter. First the email to me from Ryan, then my response.

————-

from: Ryan Peter
to: DiscerningTheWorld
date: 5 November 2009 10:39
subject: Response to your latest post

Hi DTW,

The reason why I am sending this email to you privately is because it is pretty impassioned and I don’t want anyone or you to think it’s some sort of public attack on you.

If you want to make it public, I have no problem with that 🙂

Here’s what I’m responding to:

You either care to know the truth or your want to follow wicked doctrines. Do you have a Bible? When you study it what are you doing exactly? Why oh why are you bent on trying to find another answer or something different to what the Bible says? I know the answer to this…you do too. But I want you to have the guts to say it.

Why should I want to find anything different to what the Bible says?

But I am wanting to find out what the Bible says, not what my culture says. I reject post-modernism and modernism – I reject liberalism and conservatism – I reject socialism and capitalism – until any of these prove themselves to line up with what the Bible says, according to study and prayer that I have to do for myself and can’t expect anyone else to do for me.

To drive it home, I reject what Nic Paton says AND what you say, I reject what Michael Anthony and Brannon Howse says – until I am convinced, through scripture and reason, that what these people are saying IS what God is saying through His Word, the Bible, and through His Holy Spirit who lives in me and guides me into all truth.

But how do I reject it? I do it in the context of relationships and discussion. I don’t do it in the context of bulldozing my way through debates and always needing to be right like our dear bishop Sprong did in that recent post on your blog. I’ll do it with love, respect and without compromising on truth. I’ll do it in the context of being honest and open, passionate and charitable, unsuspicious of anyone’s motives but questioning what they say, teachable but only open to the Holy Spirit and the Bible to ultimately convince me.

Do you agree that my questioning at your blog around your beliefs, Amanda’s or Michael Anthony’s is just as valid as my questioning at Emergent Africa around what Nic Paton or Roger Saner believes? Do you think I should automatically agree with what you or Michael says just because you or he claims that they preach the gospel? Surely not. If people want to make claims that this or that is from the Bible and that they preach the true gospel, they have the responsibility of proving it.

At the moment, I remain unconvinced that capitalism is biblically sound in its entirety. I am not wrong before God or before Michael by asking questions of this and discovering what the Bible says for myself. Michael hasn’t really proved it from scripture up to this point, and the burden of proof really is on him to do so since I am not making any particular stand on any type of economical system. I am simply asking him to take into consideration my concerns and tell me why capitalism – which he makes a stand for – he views to be so biblical.

Paul reasoned with the jews, I am trying to reason at your blog. I don’t know why my reasoning is suddenly (and again) seen as trying to push some or other strange agenda or find another answer to what the Bible says.

The problem with writing this rather than being able to speak to you about this on the phone is that my tone is not obvious. It is not a condescending tone, or an attacking tone. It is more in the lines of honesty and frustration that my motives are constantly questioned without any reasonability in doing so.

At any rate, this whole capitalism debate is not really adding any value. I’m hoping that Michael produces some sources for further reading, and then I’m planning on thanking him for the discussion and bowing out of it.

Many thanks
Ryan

————-

from: DiscerningTheWorld
to: Ryan Peter
date: 9 November 2009 13:47
subject: Re: Response to your latest post

Ryan, I am happy with your answer. All I wanted was for you to be honest. To beat around the bush is a waste of time. I do not see what you say as an attack.

Since when is airing your views attacking someone? I think I have said this before, in countless times, not just to you, but to others as well. However stealing someones name and writing disgusting things about them, I consider a personal attack. When someone curses me that ‘god’ blinds me I see as a personal attack. When I am asked over and over and over again where I live I see that as a personal attack. When you physically hurt someone, when you go out of your way to make a person feel uneasy, call them names – that is an attack. I pray tell you can see the difference.

But this is actually all about Jesus Christ the Son of God, when someone speaks horrible things about Jesus Christ it hurts ME, because I love Him, He is my Saviour, my King. He is the ONE who looks after me in these perilous times. I could not care what you say about me personally or anyone else for that matter. As a little human being though, we, you, I, everyone has feelings, but do we go out and physically hurt someone, go out of our way to insult them? No. And it’s very obvious when one is just verbalising a disagreement with someone or going out of their way to be nasty!

This has nothing to do with tone in writing. You can read the Bible in a raging voice, monotone or joyous voice all the way through; the message might sound different but it’s still the same message no matter how someone tries to change it or make it sound.

Speaking your mind about what you believe to someone else is not an attack.

And I am not saying you did these things above. You did apologise for however siding with those at EmergingAfrica, FutureChurch and DiscernamentalistMafia websites when they did these things to me and I accepted that when you said sorry for taking their side you meant it.

So I am going to make this email public, because you said I can. Including my reply.

Thank you Ryan for finally saying what you REALLY believe. You have spent many a comment dodging the question, agreeing, when you actually didn’t. I have not wavered, one minute agreeing and then disagreeing or ‘agreeing to disgaree’. You reject what we say, cool. Not our problem. Just as I reject what you say. Cool. Not your problem. And even though you reject what Nic Paton says and you reject what I say, I hope you can tell the difference between what he says and I say. If you have learnt anything from all of this I hope it’s that. At least it’s something for me to smile about as I worry about you.

I believe that I and others have spoken the Gospel to you, given you ample information to research, given you ample to think about and quoted scripture accurately, so what I needed to do is done.

You say you will let the Holy Spirit convince you. Then let Him convince you. I have told you many a time I am not here to convince you. If you are really seeking the truth you will find it. I pray you do.

Deborah

————-

To everyone else,

If you want to comment with more reading material as requested please post comments, scripture, links to relevant sources and thoughts. Other comments regarding this entire conversation will be allowed, too a point of course. Comments to Ryan asking him questions will be pointless as he won’t be replying, but comments about certain points he has made will be allowed. If Ryan does decided to comment he can.

Remember that many are reading this blog who will benefit from the info posted here.

C

>> the change seems to be going to rush like a strong wind over the whole globe

Thats NAR talk. What you want to say is. These new world order changes are speading quickly over the entire earth. 😉 The Apostles and Prophets reading this blog might actually view those strong winds as the ‘holy’ spirit (all lowercase) and get all excited haha.