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	Comments on: Has God Abandoned the Mosaïek Church?	</title>
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	<description>Discerning Biblical Answers for Christians in Todays World</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 28 Nov 2019 17:36:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494596</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Nov 2019 17:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=31485#comment-494596</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494595&quot;&gt;Aaron&lt;/a&gt;.

Aaron

So, whenever a Christian earnestly contends for the faith (Jude 1:3) and warns others of a path that seems right but the end thereof are the ways of death (the second death in hell) (Proverbs 14:12), he is casting stones. It shows you how flimsy and utterly deceptive the teachings are in Mosaiek Kerk.

&lt;blockquote&gt;And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. (Revelation 18:4)&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494595" >Aaron</a>.</p>
<p>Aaron</p>
<p>So, whenever a Christian earnestly contends for the faith (Jude 1:3) and warns others of a path that seems right but the end thereof are the ways of death (the second death in hell) (Proverbs 14:12), he is casting stones. It shows you how flimsy and utterly deceptive the teachings are in Mosaiek Kerk.</p>
<blockquote><p>And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. (Revelation 18:4)</p></blockquote>
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		By: Aaron		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494595</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aaron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Nov 2019 17:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=31485#comment-494595</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[May he without sin cast the first stone]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May he without sin cast the first stone</p>
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		<title>
		By: Deborah (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494346</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deborah (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Sep 2019 10:53:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=31485#comment-494346</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494339&quot;&gt;Robbie&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Robbie

It&#039;s clear from reading the Jesuit oath that they will persecute anyone, even their own to further the Pope&#039;s agenda for that time.  So it should come as no surprise that they would persecute the Lutheran or the Calvinist as being traitors of the mother church of Rome.  Even though the Augustinian monk Martin Luther never truly separated from the Roman Catholic church, he held onto the sacraments for instance, yet he was still seen as a traitor that needed to be excommunicated.

Every 500 years the church faces a major crisis of some sort (be it a revolution or in this case a co-reformation):  &lt;em&gt;http://www.ncregister.com/blog/benjamin-wiker/every-500-years-the-church-faces-a-terrible-crisis-is-this-the-worst-of-the&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;“LUTHER’S PROTEST IS OVER”?&lt;/strong&gt;

Bishop Palmer—who has since died in a motorcycle accident—stunned the Christian world earlier this year when he presented Francis’ message at a gathering led by Pentecostal evangelist Kenneth Copeland. In his message, Palmer proclaimed the importance of ecumenism. Citing the 1999 document, he asked his Protestant audience: “Brothers and sisters, Luther’s protest is over. Is yours?”

The Roman church has long sought unity with those it considers “separated brethren.” From Scripture, we understand that the “daughter” churches that have sprung from Rome will reunite with their “mother” church before Jesus Christ returns (Isaiah 47:1–11; Revelation 17:5). That church will, for a brief time, be a great power on the world scene, influencing a revived “Roman Empire” led from Europe that will dominate the world economy and impel billions to submit to its leadership.

But how will that unity be achieved? Will millions convert en masse, taking up Roman Catholic doctrines as their own, following the example of many Anglicans who have recently returned to Rome? Or will Rome speed the process by compromising on long-held doctrinal differences, as in its joint declaration with Lutheran leaders? Time will tell. One point is clear: Unity is coming. So, true Christians need to be sure of what they believe, and must not give up the Truth in the name of some kind of feel-good “unity.”

Will you be ready when the prophesied end-time ecumenism reaches out to you? Will you be able to resist? You need to be ready to act on your faith! --- &lt;em&gt;https://www.tomorrowsworld.org/magazines/2014/september-october/ecumenism-and-end-time-prophecy&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It was inevitable that one day the Lutheran church would merge back into the Mother church of Rome, because it never left in the first place.  
The sacraments, the baptismal regeneration, and Mary worship as you stated is very much visible in their doctrine, but the most shocking of all is the Eucharist.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Eucharist in Lutheranism&lt;/strong&gt;

Lutherans believe that the Body and Blood of Christ are &quot;truly and substantially present in, with and under the forms&quot; of consecrated bread and wine (the elements),[5] &lt;strong&gt;so that communicants eat and drink both the elements and the true Body and Blood of Christ himself&lt;/strong&gt;[6] in the Sacrament of the Eucharist whether they are believers or unbelievers.[7][8] The Lutheran doctrine of the Real Presence is also known as the sacramental union.[9][10] This theology was first formally and publicly confessed in the Wittenberg Concord (1536).[11] It has also been called &quot;consubstantiation,&quot; but most Lutheran theologians reject the use of this term as it creates confusion with an earlier doctrine of the a similar name (substantiation).[12] Lutherans use the term &quot;in, with and under the forms of consecrated bread and wine&quot; and &quot;sacramental union&quot; to distinguish their understanding of the Eucharist from those of the Reformed and other traditions.[5]

&lt;strong&gt;Use of the sacrament&lt;/strong&gt;
For Lutherans the Eucharist is not considered to be a valid sacrament unless the elements are used according to Christ&#039;s mandate and institution (consecration, distribution, and reception).[5] This was first formulated in the Wittenberg Concord of 1536 in the formula: Nihil habet rationem sacramenti extra usum a Christo institutum (&quot;Nothing has the character of a sacrament apart from the use instituted by Christ&quot;).[13] To remove any scruple of doubt or superstition, the reliquiæ traditionally are either consumed, poured into the earth, or reserved (see below). In most Lutheran congregations, the administration of private communion of the sick and &quot;shut-in&quot; (those too feeble to attend services) involves a completely separate service of the Eucharist for which the sacramental elements are consecrated by the celebrant.[14]

Today, many Lutheran churches offer the Eucharist weekly, while others offer it less often. Weddings and funerals sometimes include the celebration of the Eucharist in Lutheran churches. At the ordinations of pastors/priests and the consecration of bishops, the Eucharist is always offered. [Emphasis added]--- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharist_in_Lutheranism&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;transubstantiation&lt;/strong&gt;
1. the changing of one substance into another.
2. Theology. the changing of the elements of the bread and wine, when they are consecrated in the Eucharist, into the body and blood of Christ (a doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church).

The mass is none other than the re-sacrifice of Jesus Christ (that hangs on the Catholic cross) over and over and over again. The Eucharist is the &lt;strong&gt;cannibalisation&lt;/strong&gt; of the Eucharists Christ&#039;s (Horus, Tamuz etc) body and the drinking of The Eucharist Christ blood, after which the Eucharist Christ rises into Mithra (the Sun God) which is represented by the wafer which is now actually the embodiment of Christ (Mithra)and is placed within the Monstrance (which looks like a sun) to represent the Sun God. The Monstrance containing the Sun God is paraded down the aisle for the congregation to venerate.
 
&lt;img src=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/images/wpi/Eucharist-Christ-in-Monstrance.jpg&quot; alt=&quot;Eucharist and Monstrance&quot; /&gt;

The Eucharist is an abomination unto God.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494339" >Robbie</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Robbie</p>
<p>It&#8217;s clear from reading the Jesuit oath that they will persecute anyone, even their own to further the Pope&#8217;s agenda for that time.  So it should come as no surprise that they would persecute the Lutheran or the Calvinist as being traitors of the mother church of Rome.  Even though the Augustinian monk Martin Luther never truly separated from the Roman Catholic church, he held onto the sacraments for instance, yet he was still seen as a traitor that needed to be excommunicated.</p>
<p>Every 500 years the church faces a major crisis of some sort (be it a revolution or in this case a co-reformation):  <em><a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncregister.com/blog/benjamin-wiker/every-500-years-the-church-faces-a-terrible-crisis-is-this-the-worst-of-the"  rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.ncregister.com/blog/benjamin-wiker/every-500-years-the-church-faces-a-terrible-crisis-is-this-the-worst-of-the</a></em></p>
<blockquote><p><strong>“LUTHER’S PROTEST IS OVER”?</strong></p>
<p>Bishop Palmer—who has since died in a motorcycle accident—stunned the Christian world earlier this year when he presented Francis’ message at a gathering led by Pentecostal evangelist Kenneth Copeland. In his message, Palmer proclaimed the importance of ecumenism. Citing the 1999 document, he asked his Protestant audience: “Brothers and sisters, Luther’s protest is over. Is yours?”</p>
<p>The Roman church has long sought unity with those it considers “separated brethren.” From Scripture, we understand that the “daughter” churches that have sprung from Rome will reunite with their “mother” church before Jesus Christ returns (Isaiah 47:1–11; Revelation 17:5). That church will, for a brief time, be a great power on the world scene, influencing a revived “Roman Empire” led from Europe that will dominate the world economy and impel billions to submit to its leadership.</p>
<p>But how will that unity be achieved? Will millions convert en masse, taking up Roman Catholic doctrines as their own, following the example of many Anglicans who have recently returned to Rome? Or will Rome speed the process by compromising on long-held doctrinal differences, as in its joint declaration with Lutheran leaders? Time will tell. One point is clear: Unity is coming. So, true Christians need to be sure of what they believe, and must not give up the Truth in the name of some kind of feel-good “unity.”</p>
<p>Will you be ready when the prophesied end-time ecumenism reaches out to you? Will you be able to resist? You need to be ready to act on your faith! &#8212; <em><a target="_blank" href="https://www.tomorrowsworld.org/magazines/2014/september-october/ecumenism-and-end-time-prophecy"  rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.tomorrowsworld.org/magazines/2014/september-october/ecumenism-and-end-time-prophecy</a></em></p></blockquote>
<p>It was inevitable that one day the Lutheran church would merge back into the Mother church of Rome, because it never left in the first place.<br />
The sacraments, the baptismal regeneration, and Mary worship as you stated is very much visible in their doctrine, but the most shocking of all is the Eucharist.</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>Eucharist in Lutheranism</strong></p>
<p>Lutherans believe that the Body and Blood of Christ are &#8220;truly and substantially present in, with and under the forms&#8221; of consecrated bread and wine (the elements),[5] <strong>so that communicants eat and drink both the elements and the true Body and Blood of Christ himself</strong>[6] in the Sacrament of the Eucharist whether they are believers or unbelievers.[7][8] The Lutheran doctrine of the Real Presence is also known as the sacramental union.[9][10] This theology was first formally and publicly confessed in the Wittenberg Concord (1536).[11] It has also been called &#8220;consubstantiation,&#8221; but most Lutheran theologians reject the use of this term as it creates confusion with an earlier doctrine of the a similar name (substantiation).[12] Lutherans use the term &#8220;in, with and under the forms of consecrated bread and wine&#8221; and &#8220;sacramental union&#8221; to distinguish their understanding of the Eucharist from those of the Reformed and other traditions.[5]</p>
<p><strong>Use of the sacrament</strong><br />
For Lutherans the Eucharist is not considered to be a valid sacrament unless the elements are used according to Christ&#8217;s mandate and institution (consecration, distribution, and reception).[5] This was first formulated in the Wittenberg Concord of 1536 in the formula: Nihil habet rationem sacramenti extra usum a Christo institutum (&#8220;Nothing has the character of a sacrament apart from the use instituted by Christ&#8221;).[13] To remove any scruple of doubt or superstition, the reliquiæ traditionally are either consumed, poured into the earth, or reserved (see below). In most Lutheran congregations, the administration of private communion of the sick and &#8220;shut-in&#8221; (those too feeble to attend services) involves a completely separate service of the Eucharist for which the sacramental elements are consecrated by the celebrant.[14]</p>
<p>Today, many Lutheran churches offer the Eucharist weekly, while others offer it less often. Weddings and funerals sometimes include the celebration of the Eucharist in Lutheran churches. At the ordinations of pastors/priests and the consecration of bishops, the Eucharist is always offered. [Emphasis added]&#8212; <a target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharist_in_Lutheranism"  rel="nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharist_in_Lutheranism</a></p></blockquote>
<p><strong>transubstantiation</strong><br />
1. the changing of one substance into another.<br />
2. Theology. the changing of the elements of the bread and wine, when they are consecrated in the Eucharist, into the body and blood of Christ (a doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church).</p>
<p>The mass is none other than the re-sacrifice of Jesus Christ (that hangs on the Catholic cross) over and over and over again. The Eucharist is the <strong>cannibalisation</strong> of the Eucharists Christ&#8217;s (Horus, Tamuz etc) body and the drinking of The Eucharist Christ blood, after which the Eucharist Christ rises into Mithra (the Sun God) which is represented by the wafer which is now actually the embodiment of Christ (Mithra)and is placed within the Monstrance (which looks like a sun) to represent the Sun God. The Monstrance containing the Sun God is paraded down the aisle for the congregation to venerate.</p>
<p><img src="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/images/wpi/Eucharist-Christ-in-Monstrance.jpg" alt="Eucharist and Monstrance" /></p>
<p>The Eucharist is an abomination unto God.</p>
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		By: Robbie		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494339</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robbie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Sep 2019 03:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=31485#comment-494339</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tom/Debs
I noticed that the Jesuit oath rebukes the Lutheran doctrine. But then so do they call out the heretical Calvinists - 
Is Lutherism not just a &quot;side road&quot; to Roman Catholism?
I know that they (Lutherans) cunningly participate in mass and Luther himself believes in baptismal regeneration.
Mary worship is also visible in there doctrine.  


http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/catholics-and-lutherans-find-common-ground-as-reformations-500th-anniversar]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom/Debs<br />
I noticed that the Jesuit oath rebukes the Lutheran doctrine. But then so do they call out the heretical Calvinists &#8211;<br />
Is Lutherism not just a &#8220;side road&#8221; to Roman Catholism?<br />
I know that they (Lutherans) cunningly participate in mass and Luther himself believes in baptismal regeneration.<br />
Mary worship is also visible in there doctrine.  </p>
<p><a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/catholics-and-lutherans-find-common-ground-as-reformations-500th-anniversar"  rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/catholics-and-lutherans-find-common-ground-as-reformations-500th-anniversar</a></p>
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		By: Robbie		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494309</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robbie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Sep 2019 04:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=31485#comment-494309</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[eeeew Vanessa? - Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eeeew Vanessa? &#8211; Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. </p>
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		By: Tom (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494308</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Sep 2019 13:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=31485#comment-494308</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494307&quot;&gt;Vanessa&lt;/a&gt;.

Vanessa wrote

&lt;blockquote&gt;God could not care one way or the other what a fleshly organisation is doing as God is busy building the Body Of Christ.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So, God will never grant anyone among those who are being misled in the Mosaiek Chruch the chance to repent and be saved?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494307" >Vanessa</a>.</p>
<p>Vanessa wrote</p>
<blockquote><p>God could not care one way or the other what a fleshly organisation is doing as God is busy building the Body Of Christ.</p></blockquote>
<p>So, God will never grant anyone among those who are being misled in the Mosaiek Chruch the chance to repent and be saved?</p>
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		By: Vanessa		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494307</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vanessa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=31485#comment-494307</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[God could not care one way or the other what a fleshly organisation is doing as God is busy building the Body Of Christ. To say HAS GOD ABANDONED THE MOSAÏEK CHURCH? is a mis-nomer as they have always preached a false Gospel from the days they opened their doors.  God was never part of that set up in the first place as they follow another Jesus. Most churches do today.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God could not care one way or the other what a fleshly organisation is doing as God is busy building the Body Of Christ. To say HAS GOD ABANDONED THE MOSAÏEK CHURCH? is a mis-nomer as they have always preached a false Gospel from the days they opened their doors.  God was never part of that set up in the first place as they follow another Jesus. Most churches do today.</p>
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		By: Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494194</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Sep 2019 07:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=31485#comment-494194</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494181&quot;&gt;Benjamin Pretorius&lt;/a&gt;.

Hullo Ben.

Ek stuur graag vir jou die inligting sodra ek dit agtermekaar kry. Oppie oomblik is my goeters bietjie dearmekaar.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494181" >Benjamin Pretorius</a>.</p>
<p>Hullo Ben.</p>
<p>Ek stuur graag vir jou die inligting sodra ek dit agtermekaar kry. Oppie oomblik is my goeters bietjie dearmekaar.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Benjamin Pretorius		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494181</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Benjamin Pretorius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Sep 2019 19:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=31485#comment-494181</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Goeienaand Tom,
stuur my asb ook die info oor Homeopatie en WB Howard
Groete
Ben]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Goeienaand Tom,<br />
stuur my asb ook die info oor Homeopatie en WB Howard<br />
Groete<br />
Ben</p>
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		<title>
		By: Deborah (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494179</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deborah (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Sep 2019 17:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=31485#comment-494179</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494178&quot;&gt;Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Tom



&lt;blockquote&gt;You said &quot;The snake on a stick is not a big issue when you look at it from a spiritual point of view. As we know, Moses was commanded by God to make a bronze serpent and hang it on a stick so that everyone who looks on it (typifying faith in Jesus Christ who hung on a cursed tree for our redemption) could be healed of the poisonous snake bites.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;



Thank you so much for explaining that, I was going to write an explanation for our readers, but you gave the explanation, awesome!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2019/08/30/god-abandoned-mosaiek-church/#comment-494178" >Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Tom</p>
<blockquote><p>You said &#8220;The snake on a stick is not a big issue when you look at it from a spiritual point of view. As we know, Moses was commanded by God to make a bronze serpent and hang it on a stick so that everyone who looks on it (typifying faith in Jesus Christ who hung on a cursed tree for our redemption) could be healed of the poisonous snake bites.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Thank you so much for explaining that, I was going to write an explanation for our readers, but you gave the explanation, awesome!</p>
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