Comments on: Holy Spirit (Restrainer) Taken Out of The Way…

By: Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World) — Thu, 07 Apr 2022 15:25:19 +0000

In reply to Jimmy.

Jimmy wrote: ” I used to hold to that view but in the end shifted to post-trib.”

Most anti-pre-tribbers sing the same tune, ” I used to hold to that view but in the end shifted to post-trib.” Do you mind telling me what the reason was for you to shift to post-trib? I am doing a little survey to find out why most are switching to the post-trib view. I really would appreciate your reason/s for doing so.

By: Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World) — Mon, 04 Apr 2022 15:06:32 +0000

In reply to Jimmy. Cheers Jimmy. I will be seeing you at the Pretrib Rapture.

By: Jimmy

Jimmy — Sun, 03 Apr 2022 22:57:22 +0000

Thanks for the reply Tom, and approving my comment. You guys are clearly strong pre-trib rapture proponents, which I’m not. Consequently, I don’t think we’d get far by way of a conversation in this area of theology. I used to hold to that view but in the end shifted to post-trib.

If Paul was post-trib, then my description of his sequence of events leading up to Jesus’s singular return makes sense, to my thinking at least. The point of this passage is he’s bringing is comfort to those alive that they can still have a resurrection hope for dead loved ones. That hope exists because the key events prior to Jesus’s return (which initiates the resurrection of believers) are yet to occur, contrary to others who clearly taught them that either Jesus had returned, or it was some kind of gnostic internal coming.

Anyway, just thought I’d contribute but don’t want to argue the pre-trib piece, which definitely slants the way one approaches end times or apocalyptic scriptures. Cheers Tom.

By: Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World) — Sun, 03 Apr 2022 07:36:34 +0000

In reply to Jimmy.

Hi Jimmy. The mistake you are making is not seeing the difference between the words “coming” and “reveal.” The word for “reveal” is “apokaluptō” – literally to take off or remove the cover. Jesus Christ was already revealed at his First Coming (incarnation) when John the Baptist was the first to reveal his identity when he said, ” Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” The word for “coming” is “parousia” and in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 it is coupled with “a gathering together unto Him”. Where else do we read of such a gathering?

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Th 4:15-18).

This is the Pretrib rapture. The Thessalonians Christians were harassed and being led astray by false teachers who lied to them, telling them that they were already in the Day of the Lord (the seven-year tribulation), despite Paul’s earlier teachings. Paul comforted them by confirming that they could not possibly be in the Day of the Lord (seven-year tribulation; Daniel’s seventieth week). “That day,” Paul assured them, could not come “except there come a falling away first and that man of sin, the son of perdition, is revealed.” Since these two things had not taken place yet in the time when Paul wrote this letter, it proves that the Thessalonians Christians were not in the Day of the Lord.

By: Jimmy

Jimmy — Thu, 24 Mar 2022 01:11:50 +0000

My view on 2 Thess 2 is that the context is about the return of Jesus (v1), and the timing of his return (that it hasn’t happened yet). It’s also clear Paul references two comings and two revealings – Jesus and the Antichrist.

The important key is who do the various ‘he’ and ‘him’ refer to in the chapter: Jesus or the Antichrist? So in verse 6, I read the ‘him’ in ‘what is holding him back’ as Jesus being held back, ‘so that he (Jesus) may be revealed at the proper time’.

In v7, the secret power that becomes finally personified is currently at work holding it (Jesus’s parousia) back, until he (the Antichrist) is finally taken out of the way. That happens when he (the Antichrist) comes and is revealed via false signs and wonders (v9) and who is then overthrown by the coming and return of Christ (v8).

Thanks for your ministry.

By: Deseree Russouw

Deseree Russouw — Tue, 03 Aug 2021 13:57:04 +0000

May I disagree, the Arabs are not the descendants of Ham, they are the descendants of Abraham’s son Ismael. Abraham was descended from Shem, son of Noah and Ismael was Abrahams first born, illegitimate son and also the father of the12 Arab tribes. Later becoming the different Arab nations, constantly warring with each other until the end of days. Abraham wanted YahWeh to bless Ismael as well, which YahWeh did by giving Ismael 12 sons as well but they would constantly war with each other as I have already mentioned. Throughout scripture the genealogy of a family is through the male line of descend, which totally rules out the Arabs descending from Ham through Canaan

By: Michael

Michael — Thu, 20 May 2021 18:25:28 +0000

Deb, did you know of this? by Grant Jeffrey (October 5, 1948 – May 11, 2012) “For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins” – Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373 I am always delighted when God leads me to new information that confirms His Word. In my ongoing research into recent archaeolological discoveries and into writings of Early Church leaders I have made several exciting new discoveries that I want to share with my readers. In this chapter we will explore a number of interesting discoveries about the following subjects: the finding of a teaching about the pre-Tribulation Rapture from the first centuries of the Early Church; the archaeological discoveries of the tombs of Mary, Martha, and Lazarus that prove the historical accuracy of the Gospels; and the proof that miraculous healings, raising of the dead, and the charismatic gifts were common among believers during the first three centuries following the resurrection of Christ. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Was Taught by the Early Church Obviously, the truth about the timing of the Rapture will ultimately be found only in Scripture. The Protestant Reformation was based essentially on this return to the authority of the Bible. The Latin phrase Sola Scriptura, meaning “Scripture Alone,” became the rallying cry of the reformers who ignored centuries of tradition and church councils in there insistence that truth could only be discovered in the Word of God. While the ultimate resolution of this discussion must be based on our interpretation of Scripture, it is important to answer the errors of our opponents who disparage “the blessed hope” of the Rapture with misinformation about the modem rediscovery of the truth about the pre-Tribulation Rapture. Many post-tribulationist writers have attacked the pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine by claiming that it cannot be true because no Church writer or reformer ever taught this doctrine until approximately 170 years ago. While the real question for sincere students of Scripture must be whether or not the Bible truly teaches this doctrine, the argument that no one ever saw this “truth” throughout the 1,800 years of Church history has been very effective, causing many Christians to abandon their belief in the pre-Tribulation Rapture. The only problem with their argument is that they are totally wrong. Many contemporary writers claim that the pre-Tribulation Rapture theory first originated around A.D. 1820. They ascribe the theory’s initial creation to either Emmanuel Acurnza (Ben Ezra, 1812), Edward Irving (1816), or Margaret Macdonald (1830), and finally to John Darby (1830). For example, Dave MacPherson in The Incredible Cover-Up, written in 1975, stated, “Margaret Macdonald was the first person to teach a coming of Christ that would precede the days of Antichrist.”‘ Before 1830 Christians had always believed in a single future coming, that the catching up of I Thessalonians 4 will take place after the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24 at the glorious coming of the Son of Man when He shall send His angels to gather together all of His elect.” Reverend John Bray, in The Origin of the Pre- Tribulation Rapture Teaching (1980), declared, “People who are teaching the pre-Tribulation Rapture today are teaching something that never was taught until 1812…. Not one of those Early Church fathers taught a pre-Tribulation Rapture…. I make the offer of five hundred dollars to anybody who will find a statement, a sermon, article in a commentary, or anything, prior to 1812 that taught a twophase coming of Christ separated by a stated period of time, such as the pre-Tribulation rapturists teach. Those writers, among others who despise the teaching of the pre-Tribulation Rapture, dogmatically assert that it was taught for the first time in 1830 by John Darby and the Plymouth Brethren or one of the other individuals mentioned above. A number of these authors will have to drastically revise the next edition of there books based on two remarkable textual discoveries that conclusively prove that a number of Christian teachers, centuries before John Darby rediscovered this biblical teaching, clearly taught that the Rapture would occur before the tribulation period. During the summer of 1994, after more than a decade of searching, I discovered several fascinating manuscripts that contain clear evidence of the teaching of the pre-Tribulation Rapture in the Early Church. Ephraem’s Teaching on the Pre-Tribulation Rapture “For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins” (On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, by Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373). The early Christian writer and poet, Ephraem the Syrian (who lived from A.D. 306 to 373), was a major theologian of the early Byzantine Eastern Church. He was born near Nisbis in the Roman province of Syria, near present-day Edessa, Turkey. Ephraem displayed a profound love of the Scriptures in his writings as illustrated by several of his written comments quoted in Works of Nathaniel Lardner (vol. 4, 1788). “1 esteem no man more happy than him who diligently reads the Scriptures delivered to us by the Spirit of God, and thinks how he may order his conversation by the precepts of them.” To this day his hymns and homilies are used in the liturgy of the Greek Orthodox and Middle Eastern Nestorian Church. While the 16-volume Post-Nicene Library includes a number of homilies and psalms by Ephraem the Syrian, the editors noted that he also wrote a large number of commentaries that have never been translated into English. Ephraem’s fascinating teaching on the Antichrist has never been published in English until now. This critically important prophecy manuscript from the fourth century of the Church era reveals a literal method of interpretation and a teaching of the pre-millennial return of Christ. More importantly, Ephraem’s text revealed a very clear statement about the pre-tribulational return of Christ to take His elect saints home to heaven to escape the coming Tribulation. In addition, Ephraem declares his belief in a personal, Jewish Antichrist, who will rule the Roman Empire during the last days, a rebuilt temple, the two witnesses, and a literal Great Tribulation lasting 1,260 days. It is also fascinating to note that he taught that the war of God and Magog would precede the tribulation period. I discovered another text by Ephraem called The Book of the Cave of Treasure that revealed he taught that Daniel’s seventieth week will be fulfilled in the final seven years at the end of this age that will conclude with Christ’s return at the Battle of Armageddon to establish His kingdom. The following section includes key passages from Ephraem’s important text, written about A.D. 373, and translated by Professor Cameron Rhoades of Tyndale Theological Seminary at my request. On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World 1. Most dearly beloved brothers, believe the Holy Spirit who speaks- in us. Now we have spoken before, because the end of the world is very near, and the consummation remains. Has not the first faith withered away in men? … 2. We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled, and there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one in the completion of the Roman kingdom. Why therefore are we occupied with worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that He may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms the world? Believe you me, dearest brothers, because the coming of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time…. Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is about to come and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins [italics added]. And so, brothers, most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of this world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord…. 3. When therefore the end of the world comes, there arise diverse wars, commotions on all sides, horrible earthquakes, perturbations of nations, tempests throughout the lands, plagues, famine, drought throughout the thoroughfares, great danger throughout the sea and dry land, constant persecutions, slaughters and massacres everywhere….

By: Michael

Michael — Thu, 20 May 2021 18:11:30 +0000

Deb, Great work on the Pre-trib rapture. I’m stunned by it.

By: Michael

Michael — Thu, 20 May 2021 18:09:00 +0000

Glad I found this site.Great work. God Bless.

By: Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah (Discerning the World) — Thu, 20 May 2021 08:55:32 +0000

In reply to Michael. Dear Michael Try now? Should be working.