Hi Marlene. In case you misunderstood me. I did not state “And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.” I merely quoted Jesus Christ’s words in Matthew 10:34-39.

Please remember, worthiness is not accounted to us for what we do for Him. It is accounted to us for not compromising our faith and his doctrines for the sake of peace, even among our own family members. If our worthiness was based on things we do for Him, we could never have been worthy.

I have resolved myself to NOT seek after our two children’s salvation (We also have a daughter), other than to pray for them. It is their choice; they are both over 45 years old, married with kids of their own. Big kids now, mine are.

I have given them over to God a long time ago. What I was writing was my basic experience I\we have had concerning them over the time period of when our son first got into this mess–this so-called “church” and all its darkness.

I am sold out on Jesus Christ; I am saved for 47 years and also teach SS class (from ages 5-?). I do take rest in the fact that Jesus is my Lord and that HE answers prayer.

I completely understand what you wrote here and I agree 100%. I am well aware of my focus being on the One Who cleansed me, saved my soul and guides me by His Spirit into all truth and righteousness.

You stated, “And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.”

Absolutely correct. I stopped worrying about their spiritual wellbeing a long, long time ago. I keep this Scripture foremost in my mind, so I do not concentrate on their situation.

Both of them went their ways a long time ago. The division that Jesus speaks about is describing our household to a “t”.

Our daughter has a much different relationship with us–she thinks she knows better than us, however she is also a backslider and living for amusement, entertainment and money–plenty of it. That’s up to her. She made that decision\choice many years ago.

I will never stop praying for these two of mine, but I have distanced myself from them emotionally and spiritually, as they have with us. As long as they are alive and basically well, that’s really all I care about with them.

Do I want both of them to come back to the side of the Cross again? Of course, but I don’t let their relationship distance–or lack of– take hold of me.

Yes, it certainly DOES hurt; we are their parents and we are still humans. One of my favorite Scriptures is in Genesis:
16:13 “Thou God seest me.” To me that means that God is seeing and listening to all this; He is not blind or lame where He cannot intercede for us through His Son Jesus Christ. He sees all the pain, the anguish, the frustrations, the insults tossed to us–He sees all of it.

I am very familiar with other Christians being in this position as parents. It is not easy to let them go and turn them over to Our Lord, but it must be done, else you find yourself lacking…

As to my “worthiness,” I never consider that in my life; I am the least of His and am doing what I was called to do and am capable of doing right now: teaching and passing out tracts, which I have been doing since I became a born again Christian. Should He choose to give me other things to do for the Kingdom, that would be great, but for now I am faithful in the little things and I do not “despise the day of the small things” in my life.

Thank you for the encouragement.

Dear Marlene,

Thank you so much for your comment. You have echoed what many Christian parents are going through during these last days. I have wrestled with this passage in Scripture many times.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. (Romans 8:28).

All things? Really? Do all things work together for the good of our spiritual life? Here’s the bottom line. As long as we keep focused on the “all things” we will remain in a state of constant despondency and discouragement. As soon as we learn to shift our focus from the “all things” to our love for Him and his love for us, and our calling to follow Jesus no matter what we may suffer, our burden becomes so much lighter because his burden is light. I can only tell you what I did when my children and their spouses became involved in churches where the atmosphere is thick with demons and their lies, after I had warned them not to join those churches. I offered them up to God (gave them over to Him) and started to pray for others who are in the same boat of deception. When I asked God to speak to me through his Word, I got the following answer.

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. (Matthew 10:34-39).

Loving your own flesh and blood is excellent but loving Him more is even more excellent. The word “axios” (worthy) means to be worthy of a reward due to you at the Bema Throne Judgment seat of Christ if you remain faithful in your love for Him.

Be strong in the Lord and never give up.

For many years we (my husband and I) have tried to show him, to reason with him–that this “new” epiphany he had via his friend’s teachings–is NOT what the Bible teaches, to no avail.

One way that the Oneness and other modalists succeed in gaining a convert to their heretical doctrines is that they find a person who is discouraged, depressed and lonely–and then target them as a good candidate for their blasphemous doctrine. Such was the case with our son. To make matters worse, he met and married a Oneness girl, which further cements him into this “faith.”
The end result is that his parents–meaning us–are not following the “truth”, a.k.a. the Oneness, Praxeus, Noetus, Modalistic faith and that his is the true one. Sounds like a cult. It is.
They have very little to do with us throughout the years. Their children, even when young, were NEVER allowed to stay and visit with their grandparents (us), BUT they ARE allowed to stay with women in their “church”, some of whom I wouldn’t even bother saying hello to; they are THAT freaky-spooky.

We have repeatedly asked for the children to stay. The answer is “Ask _____ (our son) or “Ask __________ (our daughter-in-law), passing the explanation to the other spouse, and so the end result is we NEVER have gotten an answer, BUT in the 21 years they’re married, the children came ot stay with us ONCE: the oldest girl was about seven and her sister was about five.

Anniversaries, birthdays, etc. you name it. All these years we’re lucky if he or she calls us more than the standard eight times a year: Christmas, New Year, Thanksgiving, my husband’s birthday, my birthday, our anniversary, Father’s Day and Mother’s Day. Out of the average 365 days a year, our contact with them (their choice, not ours) is limited to these civil days, meaning that the other 357 days of the year, we have NO IDEA if they’re dead or alive, hurt and in the hospital or home and healthy, whether the children are well, doing well in school, having dates (yes–with boys ONLY from their cult), or any other reason.

You could say to me, “well, why don’t YOU call them?” We do. They stay on the phone for a few minutes, perhaps half an hour at most, then they have to “let me let you go now,” which of course we know why they want to hang up: they don’t want us to pry into their lives, nor do they want any close relationship with us.

How very sad this is to us personally, since our son was NEVER like this–not in all the years he was with us from birth until he joined the Navy at age 19. He and I have ALWAYS been close to each other. I am his Mom, after all, so I thought that our relationship would last. Sadly the answer is no more.

The first thing I noticed was that he wasn’t smiling or laughing anymore. He was always a great young man; sometimes serious, but most times a LOT of fun to be around. I miss his laugh most of all. I don’t even know the last time I heard him REALLY laughing. That, too, has been taken from him; he doesn’t even know it.

It has caused a LOT of anger and hurt within us, oh, and if we tell them that this “relationship” is suffering, we get the pat answer that “we don’t want to hear anything negative;” to the point that the children (ages 15 and up to 23) have also been taught, so that closes the door.

We have missed ALL THESE YEARS with the children. They live in one state and us in another, but before we moved to a southern state, we lived close enough–ten hours–that it was doable to drive both ways. Now it’s too far, so that gives them another excuse. We have learned the hard way to forget about any chance for having a “normal” family; they took that away from us.

I don’t want to sound ignorant of their doctrine; quite the opposite: I spent almost an equally amount of time all these years to become familiar with their heretical beliefs, doctrines and outright denials of the TRUE Gospel as it is presented in the Bible. They are so conditioned that if you ask a question that disrupts their beliefs, they will automatically come back at you with the brainwashed answer they get from their “church’s” teachings.

In other words, for every Scripture you present, they have the “answer” as taught to them by their spiritual “leaders,” of whom are their “giants”: David K. Bernard for one, plus a myriad of others too numerous to mention. By the way, speaking of David K. Bernard, his teaching on church history is 100% absolutely PERVERTED and false. I had to do my own research on this because I was so shocked as to what he taught. This is the trap our son is in.

SO–whenever anyone says that this heretical teaching, that can be traced all the way back to Praxeus and Noetus–two false teachers that taught this damnable heresy–and were CONDEMNED and rejected by the early church fathers–is somehow the “truth,” reject not the person, but their doctrine that was spawned in hell and presented to the world by these blasphemers.

Just about EVERYTHING that the Oneness people believe are lies, distortions of the Scriptures, denied by them, twisted to fit their own agenda and literally brainwashed into their brains by those up the ladder in knowledge than the average person who is following them. It IS an inclusive cult and it IS heretical.

Take what you will from my post–I have been studying this cult since the day I found out our son is involved. We have several books from authors who are way smarter than I am in refuting them. There are also several trusted websites and videos out there, designed to teach us all about them.

Do I hate the proponents of this? No. Rather I pray that their eyes would be open before it is too late for them. They lost Nathaniel (their leader) a few years ago. They have also tangled with other Christians such as the late Dr. Walter Martin of “The Kingdom of the Cults” fame, and E. Calvin Beisner on the John Ankerberg show several years ago, before Dr. Martin passed away.
Of course their main thrust is to deny the Trinity, in spite of it being presented to all mankind from Genesis to Revelation. Their second biggest teaching is that Jesus Christ did NOT exist until He was born; that is the heretical teaching of the denial of Jesus Christ’s eternality; they also teach that you MUST be water baptized or you are not saved. I once asked our son about children and adults who have not yet been water baptized: do they all go to hell? What if they are a Christian and the scheduling of the water baptism isn’t for another month or so; do they die in their sins? Of course we all know that we are NOT saved by water baptism; theirs is a works religion.

I also know that if they were to leave, they immediately get shunned by others in their cult. I also know that THE one thing they cannot bear within themselves is the FEAR of not living “holy” enough, or doing enough to and for others.
For example, our daughter-in-law is CONSTANTLY doing things for the church; decorating at holidays, teaching SS, playing the piano and singing, etc. basically never saying “no” to anything that is asked of her. While that may be commendable, it is NOT how anyone gains entrance into the Kingdom of God–It is by FAITH not of works, lest any man should boast, Paul wrote.

Everyone out there, PLEASE do NOT let these people swallow you up with their unScriptural teachings. It is a path that you cannot escape, but for the grace of God. All these years, we have never stopped praying that they all get out of this before it’s too late for them. Yes, I do get discouraged and say to my husband that I will not bother praying for them because “what’s the use? they’re never getting otu,” yet I am compelled to continue. This is OUR son. This is HIS children, so in spite of how I feel, I MUST pray for them continuously, whether or not I see any changes.

PS: we are both in our 60’s, so please excuse the typo’s. Without reading glasses, I cannot see very well anymore.
God Bless all of you who are doing a fantastic job of exposing the teachings that do NOT come from Scriptures.

https://rationalchristiandiscernment.blogspot.com/2019/01/romans-109-proves-jesus-is-god-almighty.html

If you check out my post, you’ll see an angry unitarian there in the comments section. So I know that Romans 10:9 is a good text to bring up when discussing the Trinity. It essentially says, “Jesus is God.” A lot of those unitarian types (in my experience) appear to be quite liberal in their theology, which includes them rejecting the divine inspiration of Scripture. In that case, why should they appeal to the text of Scripture at all?

God bless.

Ek sal liewer dat die Skrif praat en ek nie verder iets byvoeg nie. Die HeiligeGees moet nog baie aan my werk….

Dankie Deb en Tom vir hierdie SuidAfrikaanse blog Dis baie goed om hierdie platvorm in my eie taal ook te he.

Margaretha

>> All are free to study and believe as they are convicted, but in the end, there is only one truth.

You are right, you are free to believe what you what, but it’s not the truth.

Dan

The idea that a seeking sinner would search for God and not find Him because he is not one of the elect, is a lie straight out of hell. The fact that ANYBODY (including you, me, Cornelius) (Acts 10) searches after God in the first place, is PROOF that the Father is drawing us. It is the EVIDENCE for grace, not the RESULT of it.

Have you never heard; have you never read, have you never understood THAT GOD DRAWS ALL PEOPLE. (John 12:32)

You think too highly of yourself when you say it is your searching that corroborates God’s drawing. Have you never heard of the cross of Jesus Christ? The cross of Jesus Christ is the PROOF that God draws all people, regardless of whether they seek Him or not. And you have the audacity to accuse me of self-righteousness?

Please don’t comment here again and waste my time, until you have learned what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about.

If you do not encounter the following objection to your doctrine on election, you do not have Paul’s doctrine on election: “Is there injustice with God?” (Rom 9:14)
Paul responds to a question about righteousness with: “..MERCY..” (Rom 9:15)

Grace is getting what you do not deserve. Grace is extended to ALL. Salvation is by grace and freely available to anyone who wants it.
Mercy is not getting what you do deserve. Like Pharaoh, we all deserved the hardening of the heart (Rom 9:17;18). Why? “There is not one who seeks after God…..not even one.” (Rom 3:10-12)

The conclusion here is: “So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has MERCY.” (Rom 9:16)
“Faith comes by hearing” indicates that it wasn’t there before. It came to you BY hearing. God is the source.

To say that God elected you because He foreknew you will have faith, is contradicting to the truth. It is self-righteousness.