What to EXPECT in the Last Days

Eugene Roberts says:

Deborah,
you paint with a really broad brush. Making a statement like

“There are thousands of apostles/prophets and pastors in the New Apostolic Reformation / Word of Faith who are part of the Emergent Church.”

doesn’t do your credibility as a researcher any good.

cecilia says:

but then Deborah, many of the “leaders” with a “first time on your blog” have this reaction!
amazing that it’s this “leaders” (well, many of them) who are offended, and then criticize, blame and condemn you and then a gross group of them using foul language and warnings.
amazing…
grace killers? no ways!!! I call it “tough love”…

Bloomie says:

Hello Debra, what an excellent article. You are not politically correct in your exposition of the truth….but Bibically you are so right. Even the responses you are getting is right on target. The word of God is a two edge sword ,it cuts and pierces the heart with truth, this is not comfortable to some. After all,Love is now a feeling good about our selfish self syndrome. Grace has become a license and it’s gone wild.JESUS DIED to set us free and set us in right relationship with GOD. I pray for us as believers that we dont abuse the grace of GOD…while professing to love him. Love is what we do. Thank you, for not being afraid to speak the truth…this to me is love for the bretheren, warning me of a ditch that is ahead. IF this is being a GRACE stealer I stand in need of the correct biblical definition of the term. God Bless you.

Johan says:

I was at the last mighty men conference. God changed my heart. I made a new start. Do you doubt that? Angus Buchan did not lead me to Angus. He led me back to Jesus. Now I read my Bible and work on my personal relationship with Him. How can that be critisized? Ladies, I know you felt left out. But do you really want to see 400 000 men having an outdoor shower? I am sure it was a practical arrangement as well. The facilities were not well suited for women. The Sunday sermon though was open for women to attend. Please don’t just critisize.

Sharon says:

Deb-ster, The verses below came into my memory as I read this article. I will of course be re-reading it, you can expect it! :o) Having gone through a unwanted divorce 13 years ago these verses ring true for me. I always believed in proper submission, the non-doormat submission to my then husband. We had a mutual respect for each other except for the last 6 or 7 years of our marriage. My “ex” would have never gone to Promise Keepers or anything connected to it. It’s not because he knew about them; he was a “home-body” that found it hard to relate to other people unless his topic of computers came up. He is a genius in the computer world.

I would have charged hell with a water pistol with him IF…he permitted our daughter to get away with calling me every dirty name you can think of! I lost respect for him when this kept happening during the last two years of our marriage. He grew tired of my health issues. I guess he thought I loved the health issues. Guess that vow of “in sickness and in health” wasn’t meant by him. He was not the spiritual leader in our home. I felt hopeless. Was I a perfect wife? What is the definition of “perfect spouse”?

I said all of that because divorce is rampant among Christians here in the USA. We have reached a divorce rate higher than the world out there. We Christians are divorcing at a rate of 60%! This should not be. Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

In the last verse above it doesn’t say the love of the lost shall wax cold. It is the love of many…etc. That is all inclusive of both lost and saved people. I am blessed to have a church that is loving and kind. We’re family. But not all churches can expect that as the days grow worse.

I am studying a lot of late about the “Rapture of the Church” and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Many folks think it is the same event. But we know that it isn’t. I am hoping in the near future to speak to the women at my church as we are planning on starting a women’s ministry where gossip will not be tolerated! I’m old enough to know to expect certain things that we girls are capable of.

Any way thanks again for another great article. I will be back. Off to the dentist now
:o(

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

JOJEAN says:

I was attracted to this site because of your understanding of the Lost Tribes. There are many of us who are now realizing that we are the descendants of these Hebrews, part Gentile, just like Joseph’s sons Manasseh and Ephraim. It is from among these that the 144,000 will be sealed to go forth during the tribulation. Yahweh, in His perfect wisdom, “hid” His own by dispersing them among the nations. So many do not realize that the Jews are from the tribes of Judah, Levi and Benjamin, that were not dispersed. These made up the nation of Judah. The House of Israel was made up of the ten tribes that are now called “lost.” But Yahweh knows exactly where they are and who they are. AMOS 9:9

Roelie says:

Hi Deborah,

I must say I am sorely disappointed in this article, and will seriously have to reconsider my subscription to this site.
In my opinion this article is completely biased and borders on the ridiculous.
Angus got the call from God to minister to men. And that is exactly what he did – and the blessings followed.
I do not think there is any chance he would have been successful if God did not come through for him in a mighty way.
Making the analogy that his conferences is anything like the “promise keepers”, and then implying that he is using satanic freemason rituals and methods is slanderous and downright dishonest to say the least.

Your “Expectation rant” has nothing to do with Angus Buchan, Mighty Men or what happened or was taught at any of his conferences.
It would seem you have a clear gripe with the Word of Faith movement, the Charismatics and even the Pentecostals.
Now granted, there is error and extremes to be found among all these denominations, but confusing these issues and implying that Angus is a part of these is just plain deceptive.

[DTW note: your use of scripture is atrocious, you can’t just pick a verse from the bible and think you can use it to back up your argument because it sounds good, no, all your scripture you have used is out of place and wrong]

So let me respond to your expectations:
•I do Expect to find God at any meeting I attend. Not having this expectation, means you do not really believe there is a God – or that if there is one, he is so small and worthless in power, that he cannot possibly influence your life in any meaningful way. [DTW note: Jesus is present for individual people who want to get saved, HE is not present at entire EVENTS that are full blown false teaching! Read the list of articles in the comment below!]

•I do Expect that God will heal at these conferences. Not just emotionally, but physically as well. This is part of the great commission and the signs that will follow Godly men when they teach and preach the Christian gospel. [DTW note: Jesus Christ will heal through prayers He receives directly from born again believers, not through the hands of FALSE TEACHERS aka faith healers practicing witchcraft and preaching a false gospel – Jesus Christ heals oh yes he does, but not through the hands of a false teacher – Can Satan heal]
Mar 16:17-18 NKJV – 17 “And these signs will follow those who believe: … they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Not everyone will be healed – sometimes whatever ails you is the best thing to happen to you.
But if you do not come with any expectation, then you better not Expect God to do anything too.

•I do Expect to see signs and wonders at conferences like this. What does it say of your faith if you have no expectation? Why go at all? Why even attend church if you expect so little… [DTW note: You expect signs and wonders because ‘the sign of Jonah’ is not good enough for you. What is the sign of Jonah? That Jesus Christ died, was buried and rose again 3 days later. Jesus said this “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” Then he left them and went away.” (Matthew 16:4)]

•I do Expect that signs and wonders will be present. I also expect that Satan will counterfeit, confuse and deceive. But luckily there is an easy way to determine the source
Mat 7:15-16, 20 NKJV – 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 “You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? … 20 “Therefore by their fruits you will know them.So go take look at Angus’s fruit. Are you seriously claiming him to be some kind of demonic counterfeit?? [DTW, yes, go read the articles below in the comment. Unbelievers do wonderful good works as well,how do you tell the difference??.]

•I do Expect that God can physically ‘heal our land’. I do not presume to know what God will actually do.
I most certainly do Expect, that if God so decides, that He could instantly make everything better in South Africa or whatever country you live in.
But one thing is sure, I DO NOT EXPECT God to do anything if we do not. [DTW note: Do you not understand the times we are living in and that we are headed towards a TRIBULATION ulike anything known to mankind? We are only a few years away from the Tribulation. God is not healing our land, He is healing individual hearts, saving them for eternity. The land is materialistic. You follow dominionism / Kindgom now teaching. You want to reclaim the land for Christ so that He can come back is that it? No, this is not biblical. Please read: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/05/12/dominionism-and-the-rise-of-christian-imperialism-2/

•I do Expect that anything I do within God’s will, will most certainly prosper because I prayed and asked God to do it. [DTW: As a genuine born again Christian God most certainly listen to his Children and give them what they NEED, now that they WANT, He looks after them.]
Mat 21:22 NKJV – 22 “And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”
The trick is to figure out whether you are in His will.
Jam 4:3-4 NKJV – 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend [it] on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
If you ask for a blessing on your business just to be rich, you better not expect it because you are satisfying worldly lusts, but God knows your heart and he will most certainly bless and prosper you if you can be trusted with it.
Mar 10:24, 26-27 NKJV – 24 And the disciples were astonished at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, “Children, how hard it is for those who trust in riches to enter the kingdom of God! … 26 And they were greatly astonished, saying among themselves, “Who then can be saved?” 27 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men [it is] impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”

•I do Expect that my spiritual bank account will have at least 4 extra zeros on a surplus of course when you return home after attending a gathering where God really was present. [DTW: I was not talking about a spiritual bank account, I was talking about a real bank account, people actually believe that if they sow they should RECEIVE money, prosper from God.]
Luk 12:31-34 NKJV – 31 “But seek the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added to you. 32 “Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom. 33 “Sell what you have and give alms; provide yourselves money bags which do not grow old, a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches nor moth destroys. 34 “For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
If you sit at home expecting nothing – guess what you’re going to get: NOTHING!

•I do Expect that thousands of men actually got saved at Angus’s conferences – simply with a heartfelt commitment and touch from the Holy Spirit. [DTW note: You know?? You can judge their hearts? Incredible! Only God knows how many individual men were seeking Jesus Christ that day and not Angus Buchan. And by the way I know for a fact that spiritual warfare takes place at these conferences where they do walk about numerous times performing rituals.]
I do not expect this to take 8 spiritual prayer warriors come and pray over you for 8 solid hours as they walked around your house 8 times because 8 is the number of new beginnings.
This is just ridiculous and have nothing to do Angus or his conferences.

•I do Expect that God does not change, that throughout redemptive history and especially the old testament, that types and images were used to convey ideas and truths only later revealed. [DTW note: “that types and images were used to convey ideas and truths only later revealed” what? Your quoatation of scripture of way off the mark and has NOTHING to do with your false ideologies here]
Col 2:16-17 NKJV – 16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a SHADOW of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
Hbr 8:4-5 NKJV – 4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and SHADOW of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See [that] you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”
And I believe the shofar is a clear type or shadow of the coming of Jesus:
Exd 19:16 NKJV – 16 Then it came to pass on the third day, in the morning, that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud on the mountain; and the sound of the trumpet was very loud, so that all the people who [were] in the camp trembled.
Mat 24:31 NKJV – 31 “And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1Cr 15:52 NKJV – 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Th 4:16 NKJV – 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Anyone that understands these things will shudder; especially demons and any other form of evil.
So I for one, will blow the shofar as loud and as hard as I can, because by doing so I am proclaiming my faith and belief that Jesus is coming SOON!

•I do Expect that my words are powerful, and I contain within them the power of life or death. [DTW note: Oh my word, just to show you how wrong you are, the first verse you quote which is the first verse everyone quotes to prove this ridiculous notion is all do to a minister preaching false teaching or preaching the truth! If a minister preaches the truth, people will get saved, if he preaches lies people will not get saved – there is no power in the words themselves. Jesus is the power, Jesus is the WORD, you have taken all power away from Jesus and placed them into simple (idle) words that come out of your mouth (Mat 12:36), this is witchcraft!]
Pro 18:21 NKJV – 21 Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue, And those who love it will eat its fruit.
Life is granted through confession of faith:
Rom 10:9 NKJV – 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Blessing are granted to you if you keep your mouth from evil:
1Pe 3:10 NKJV – 10 For “He who would love life And see good days, Let him refrain his tongue from evil, And his lips from speaking deceit.
You will someday give account of every idle word:
Mat 12:36 NKJV – 36 “But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
And so I do expect that what I say and proclaim have power. I do expect that should I proclaim God’s word within His will, that it indeed will come to pass.
Failing to do so, means I have no faith.

I am not even going to attempt to address your “do not expect list”. [DTW note: Of course you wont, because it means you have to DISAGREE with repentance of sin and so on]
The only thing we do seem to agree on is your ending. There most certainly will be a great falling away and deception. [DTW: Yes you are part of it]
But lumping any major move of God and the Holy Spirit into this camp (like Angus) is just going overboard. We all need to be careful and apply some discernment in our lives, but you really need to be just as careful to not lump true moves of God into this category.
You will be missing out on so much, and you are making yourself guilty of judging fellow believers. [DTW note: Ohhh but you are not judging me right? lol. Read: Christians We Must Judge Righteously and Do Not Tolerate Wicked People and Mark Them Which Cause Division)

Mat 7:2 NKJV – 2 “For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

Eph 4:29-32 NKJV – 29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

Sharon says:

There are none so blind as.those who will not see.

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Roelie

You have to reconsider your subscription to this blog? I am so upset *not really* I have countless articles on Angus Buchan and why he is FALSE – with proof. Do you care for the truth? I wonder? Maybe you should READ THIS BLOG before you unsubscribe… BE A BEREAN – first, how about that?

The ‘Manifest Sons of God’ belief of Angus Buchan
Angus Buchan’s Holy Ghost Chaos or….was it Something Else
Angus Buchan says, “Put your Doctrinal Differences Aside!”
Angus Buchan and the Roman Catholic Reconciliation
NAR Invasion of SA – Rick Joyner, Angus Buchan, Danie Slabbert, Nevil
Angus Buchan – A ‘False Bible’ in 366 Days for Men
Angus Buchan, Benny Hinn and God TV (with Wendy and Rory Alec)
Graham Power & Angus Buchan – The Transformation of Africa
Angus Buchan and the Promise Keepers
The Dominionist Faith of Angus Buchan – Faith Like Potatoes

Roelie says:

Hi Deborah,

well at least you published my comment. I am disappointed that you could not let my comment stand on its own – without inserting you own bias.
I did not really expect you to change your mind in a single comment. The comment was intended to reach the readers of your blog, and hopefully insert a note of caution to their own hearts, that this article is just plain going overboard.

I did attend the last 2 of his conferences – so at least I feel better qualified at judging what exactly happened there.
So did a couple of hundred thousand men from all over South Africa including thousands of pastors as well.
Yet you feel so confident in your discernment, you would happily condemn the entire conference and all that happened there, as satanic!

[DTW note: Jesus is present for individual people who want to get saved, HE is not present at entire EVENTS that are full blown false teaching! Read the list of articles in the comment below!]
God was not present there?! So whom was? Satan?! So what happened there must have been satanic right? And since these guys went home to their homes and families and churches, they influenced another couple million people in SA. So what exactly are you claiming then? That we are all lost, in a delusion and none of us will be saved?
Now don’t get me wrong – I agree that there will be a great apostasy, and that the path to salvation is indeed narrow – but you seem to be shrinking the gate down to a single size that only fits yourself and whomever agrees with you. Do you honestly think the problem is with the rest of SA, and ALL the people that attended had absolutely no discernment?
How sure are you that you have no delusions or demonic strongholds of your own?
This article is so biased and based on such flimsy information, that I have to wonder what your true motivation is.
There is no facts in this article, and you insinuations and allegation are contrived and spurious.
Satan loves sowing conflict and division among believers – so what are you doing to ensure that this is not the case here?
And what about other churches out there? According to you, if there is any false teaching then God is not present and so they must be satanic as well. You seem to say that it’s impossible to be saved in a church (or any group event) setting because God is never present where there is false teaching. Really? I would love some scripture on that please. I dare say most of OUR theology is flawed in some form or another – so how does anyone get saved now?
God is sovereignly able to grant miracles to ANYONE (true believers or not) that do so in His name:
Mar 9:38-40 NKJV – 38 Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.” 39 But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me. 40 “For he who is not against us is on our side.
Oh my, there I go quoting scripture again … I suppose I should stop seeing as I am completely incapable of that as well:
[DTW note: your use of scripture is atrocious, you can’t just pick a verse from the bible and think you can use it to back up your argument because it sounds good, no, all your scripture you have used is out of place and wrong]

According to your statements, you seem to be implying that the ONLY way Jesus heals is through direct personal prayer:
[DTW note: Jesus Christ will heal through prayers He receives directly from born again believers, not through the hands of FALSE TEACHERS aka faith healers practicing witchcraft and preaching a false gospel – Jesus Christ heals oh yes he does, but not through the hands of a false teacher – Can Satan heal]
You seem to have made up your mind, that any healing taking place is satanic in origin to deluded lost people.
I can quote you another bunch of scripture about the anointing of oil and the laying on of hands and the confession of sins to each other that also leads to healing, and about healing following true believers but hey what’s the point.

[DTW note: You expect signs and wonders because ‘the sign of Jonah’ is not good enough for you. What is the sign of Jonah? That Jesus Christ died, was buried and rose again 3 days later. Jesus said this “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah. Then he left them and went away.” (Matthew 16:4)]
And you accuse me of quoting scripture out of place and context?!
So I comment that I expect to see miracles at conferences like this, and you reply with this scripture, thereby implying that I am a part of a wicked adulterous generation (and I suppose anyone else that went to Angus’s conference with an expectation of miracles) because we are asking for a sign. So your implication is that anyone today that still expects miracles, is part of a wicked adulterous generation. This interpretation clearly contradicts other scriptures like:
Mar 16:17-18 NKJV – 17 “And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 “they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
So how do you reconcile these scriptures then? Isn’t a better interpretation, that UNBELIEVERS that ask for miracles will not get any before they first accept the sign of Jonah?
Or what about the Jews at that time, that had the belief that the Messiah would be able to prove He is the Messiah through signs and miracles – so is Jesus not saying that the Jews as a whole will only receive the sign of Jonah – His resurrection – and that no other miracles would be performed in a “governmental” or “official” setting?
This scripture gives us a way of identifying true believers, as these signs will follow them!
Are any of the signs following your ministry btw?

[DTW, yes, go read the articles below in the comment. Unbelievers do wonderful good works as well,how do you tell the difference??.]
You will know them by their fruit, as in the fruit of the Spirit:
Gal 5:22-23 NKJV – 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Go evaluate Angus on the above attributes. Does he produce the following:
– love?
He consistently shows his love for all people around him.
– joy?
He has a bubbling, laughing character that often jumps around on stage like a teenager.
– peace?
There is calmness and serenity in his demeanour. He often encourages racial reconciliation.
– longsuffering?
He consistently responds in love and patience to all kinds of people in all situations.
– kindness?
He’s always smiling, and has a comforting encouraging word to everyone wherever he goes.
– goodness?
He runs an orphanage on his farm.
– faithfullness?
How long has he been married? Did he drop-out of anything he committed to so far?
– gentleness?
Never seen him mad at anyone or abrupt or demeaning or or or…
– self-control?
How old is he? And he’s still jogging around on his farm…

It is impossible to be a deliberate agent for Satan, and still produce this fruit.
Your core character will not allow it, it will be bent on evil.
I suppose certain virtuous acts can be faked, but such an agent will not be able to lead a consistently Godly life.
You know, God is full of compassion and mercy. He is prepared to work with desperately lost and sinful people like you and I. Ofcourse nobody is perfect, and we all are doing the best we can with cards we got dealt and I believe God sees and accepts that. He still works through us, even if we are not fully sanctified and perfect yet. There is a place for your ministry, there definitely are agents of Satan out there that are maliciously spreading false teachings, and this is where a ministry like yours is required to set the records straight. Especially since we have been warned over and over of deceptions in the last days. But going to these kinds of extremes, where a true move of God, through people with a real heartfelt passion for what they are doing is discerned to be in error and condemned as satanic is going way too far. The more you cry wolf where there is none to be found, the less of an impact your ministry will have.
How about you evaluate your own demeanour and ministry along these lines? Can you seriously claim the same fruit?

[DTW note: You know?? You can judge their hearts? Incredible! Only God knows how many individual men were seeking Jesus Christ that day and not Angus Buchan. And by the way I know for a fact that spiritual warfare takes place at these conferences where they do walk about numerous times performing rituals.]
And you can know?? You can judge their hearts and know that they were NOT saved?? You even know Angus’s heart, all the men that was there and my heart – and have no qualms condemning us all??
So if someone did indeed get saved – it was only the individual??
So with your reasoning anything good that happened at his conference, is the individual – and anything Angus does is completely satanic??
Can you not see your own bias? How many people came back from that conference losing their faith compared to how many came back having found their faith, or strengthened their faith or reconciled with fathers or brothers or came home changed godly men willing to set the example in their families…
Yea right, it must have been the devil himself at that conference working through Angus – how ridiculous!!
As to what you claim to be “rituals” in the satanic sense – please explain how you interpret the baptism – or no wait what about communion??
We are actually drinking the blood and eating the flesh of our saviour?? Yeah we must all be satanic devil worshippers…
As to blowing a shofar and walking around in circles praying – I can give you plenty of scriptures and biblical precedent on that.
Have you ever realized that Satan cannot create new things – he is there to destroy, to mock and turn good to evil.
So if Satan’s followers can gain power through rituals, don’t you think that there is a Godly precedent that he is perverting in some form?
I mean, praying, baptising, communion, the old temple sacrifices, torah law, holding church meetings, ordaining ministers etc these are all “rituals” in some form or another.
Satan knows this, that they do have power and so he uses this against us.
We are not just flesh but Spirit as well, and these type of practises (like blowing a shofar) does have a Godly and spiritual application as well.

[DTW Original: Expect that God will hear that Shofar being blown because for some unknown reason that will get His attention and chase all evil away.]
[First response: 鈥 do Expect that God does not change, that throughout redemptive history and especially the old testament, that types and images were used to convey ideas and truths only later revealed.]
[DTW note: “that types and images were used to convey ideas and truths only later revealed” what? Your quoatation of scripture of way off the mark and has NOTHING to do with your false ideologies here]
On your expect rant regarding the blowing of a shofar, I respond and explained that the Bible often uses shadows and types through history to reveal deeper truths. (Col 2:16-17 NKJV and Hbr 8:4-5 NKJV)
And then I quote the trumpet scriptures (Mat 24:31 NKJV, 1Cr 15:52 NKJV and 1Th 4:16 NKJV) that indicate Jesus’s coming will accompanied with a trumpet blast.
Is it so hard to understand that the blowing of a trumpet is a type or image of Jesus’s coming?
And that by blowing a shofar we are proclaiming our firm belief that it will come to pass, soon?
And it is this firm belief and faith in Jesus and what He accomplished (and will accomplish) for us, that scares off the devil and all evil around you?
The trumpet / shofar blast by itself does nothing. It is the sincere faith / belief of the trumpet blower that does have an effect. The same goes for the anointing of oil. A non believer can anoint with oil and blow the shofar till he’s blue in the face, but there will not be any results till his heart / faith is in the right place.

[DTW Original: Expect that your words are powerful and if you speak what you expect then God will give it to you.]
[First response: I do Expect that my words are powerful, and I contain within them the power of life or death]
[DTW note: Oh my word, just to show you how wrong you are, the first verse you quote which is the first verse everyone quotes to prove this ridiculous notion is all do to a minister preaching false teaching or preaching the truth! If a minister preaches the truth, people will get saved, if he preaches lies people will not get saved – there is no power in the words themselves. Jesus is the power, Jesus is the WORD, you have taken all power away from Jesus and placed them into simple (idle) words that come out of your mouth (Mat 12:36), this is witchcraft!]
Look I have no need to defend your statement that “if I speak what I expect, then God will give it to me”. This is clearly not always true in every situation – and mostly not in the way you intended.
I am defending my statement, that my words are indeed powerful, and I contain within them the power of life and death – to which you you replied and accused me of witchcraft.
If we are going to have any sensible kind of a discussion I expect you to make sense and be logically consistent.
Please try to express yourself more clearly, I do not get this sentence:
“If a minister preaches the truth, people will get saved, if he preaches lies people will not get saved”
First you attribute people that get saved, to truthful preaching:
“- there is no power in the words themselves.”
and then you continue and say there is no power in the words. How can there not be power in the words then if you admit they can condemn or save people?
We were created in the image of God, and He gave us the power of life (physically and spiritually) and death (physically and spiritually).
We can save through our words or we can condemn through them – and we will account for all we said because of this. With power and authority comes accountability.
And this is why Jesus Himself Whom is the Word and power, clearly states:
Mat 12:36 NKJV 36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
Why would you need to account for your words, IF THEY DID NOT HAVE ANY POWER?
And how do you get to me taking power away from Jesus, and putting it into my own idle words?
It is because of Jesus that words have power when I speak the truth. Anything I say will be coloured through my own beliefs and way of speaking, yet they will still have power – I mean it is not only when you quote the Word verbatim that they have power. It is the ideas behind them that stem from the Word and the Truth that give them power. And necessarily, the opposite is also true. Anything I say that is false, stem from the devil and sin, and they have the power to mislead, deceive, kill and destroy.
Jam 3:5-6, 8 NKJV – 5 Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things. See how great a forest a little fire kindles! 6 And the tongue [is] a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. … 8 But no man can tame the tongue. [It is] an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
Either way, the point stands: YOUR WORDS HAVE POWER. Whether you use you mouth and tongue then for truth or false, the words you speak have power either to life or to death.
Jam 3:10 NKJV – 10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so.
And then how do you get to witchcraft? I take it you mean that by proclaiming positive words over my situation, that I am practising witchcraft.
I see no problem with doing so, as long as I stay true to my faith, with biblical principles, and I stay within God’s will for my life.
Can it be abused into some form of witchcraft where God’s name is invoked for personal gain?
Ofcourse some people does do this and it is being taught in some circles, but that is not what I (nor Angus in any way) advocate.
Speaking positively about your situation encourages and edifies yourself, it shows your faith that God will come through for you.
Think about the opposite, what if you are completely negative in your trial, and blame God for allowing it to happen – do you really think God is under any obligation to help a moaning groaning, non-believing Christian with anything? In His mercy he might if you do not know any better, but I think – no I know through experience – that God truly sees your heart. And if your faith on Him is based on what He can do for you alone, making Him some kind of servant at your beck and call, then you had better not expect any results. But staying positive, and speaking it with a faithful believing heart, will guarantee God’s help and intervention.
The same reasoning you use would apply to praying for help or blessings in a given trial. It’s also idle words I speak in prayer, so if I pray for something to happen, and it does, did my words cause it – and is it also witchcraft now? It takes a whole new level of faith to be able to boldly proclaim in front of witnesses, that your God will come through for you in given situation / trial – and I think this type of faith does please God if done from a pure heart, within His will…

Oh my, I really stuck my neck out in this response, sorry it gets a bit longwinded, but I am trying to convey specific ideas and ways of thinking – that I believe to be truly biblical and Christian.
I find that by doing so, it forces me to expound my faith and beliefs that much better.
I apologize – some of the comments above is purposefully sarcastic – please don’t take too much offense – I am trying to convey the absurdity of some ideas plainly.
I look forward to your reply!
Blessings,
Roelie.

Roelie says:

Thomas Lessing (Watch and Pray / Waak en Bid) wrote:

If ever there was a man with great faith who believed that God will come through for him in a given situation or trial, it was Paul. And yet God did not come through for him in the way he expected or wanted Him to come through for him. In fact, God did exactly the opposite to what Paul wanted from God. I presume you already know this passage?

Yes, I am well aware of this passage.

Whereas Paul boasted in his infirmities and his weaknesses so that the power of Christ may dwell on him, the Word of Faith fraternity (of which you seem to be a happy member) boast in the power of their tongue and words, which is, and I agree with Deborah, occultic to the core. It is NOT of God.

I am not a WOF proponent per se. But they do have some truth in their teachings – satan likes to take doctrines to the extreme and make you fall into the ditch on the other side.
I do believe in positive confessions, and that your words do have the power alter situations or to bless people or to curse people.
I do believe that negative comments about your trials gives satan more / free-er access to heap some more burning coals on there, because you are giving him legal rights or access.
This is because your are not walking in faith – you are doubting and cursing your own situation.
Rom 14:23 NKJV – 23 …; for whatever [is] not from faith is sin.
Anything you do that is not done in faith is sin, and God will not bless sin.
There are plenty of Bible verses that talk about the blessing you might expect through righteous living and staying within His will and commands.
And the inverse is also true, if you are walking in sin and doubt, you had better not expect God to come trough for you in anything.
Having said that; I do NOT believe that God is under any obligation to come through for you in all situations, or in the specific ways you speak over your situations.
I also believe a great deal of harm can indeed be done as you claim, where this is abused.
In my own situations I therefore use this sparingly and with caution.
I will usually just say that I am confident that God will come through for me, or I’ll issue a blessing, or I’ll quote some scripture.
And I make a huge effort NOT to become negative or to issue statements to the effect that a disaster is sure to happen.
This is just inviting trouble, as you are NOT walking in faith.
I do not see this practice as occultic at all – it simply walking in faith and proclaiming it for your own and other’s edification.

I know of many people who sought God’s favours and were told that they should merely utter positive confessions to prove the strength of their faith, who eventually fell away and turned their backs on God. They usually argue “I did exactly what the Word of Faith people told me to do. I used the power of my words to confess only positive things, but nothing happened. I am worse off now than what I was. Your God is a sham.” Your teaching of positive confessions and the alleged power of your words teach people to blaspheme God.

Look, merely uttering positive confessions won’t do much – you have to really believe.
And even then, God will not always come through for you in the way you expect.
Do I need to quote the scriptures that keep on knocking and the door will be opened (luk 11), or the parable about the judge and the widow that kept pestering him (luk 18)?
It is really sad that some people lost their faith through this – you should do your best to ensure a clear biblical teaching is given to them about these issues.
I agree, some WOF proponents do go overboard, but this is not what I nor Angus in anyway teach or condone.
But summarily condemning ALL WOF teaching as satanic or demonic is not really truthful, and is preventing people from walking in faith fully.
You do not truly believe something until you say so, and only once start to say so, will you do so.
It is the same with our faith – we do not really believe unless confess it, and it is only once we start confessing our faith that we can start doing our faith.

This is what Dave Hunt says about positive confessions and the so-called power of your words nonsense: …
Awesome quote and I so agree with him when you take the WOF teaching to the extreme, and you try to make your thoughts magically realize in reality through repetitive confessions, for personal gain.
But this not what I nor Angus in any way teach, condone or advocate.

So, as you can see Dave Hunt agrees with Deborah that it is witchcraft and witchcraft, as you may know, will eventually be cast into hell together with all the shamans and witch doctors who practice witchcraft, that’s if, of course, they remain unrepentant.

I stand by my point – that your words do have power.
Same goes for you prayers. They are also just words in the end.
So if you condone praying, you cannot condemn positive speaking.
If your words have no power, then prayer has no power.
If your words have no power, then any blessing you issue have no power.
If your words have no power, then any curse that is issued against you also have now power – so then why are you so concerned about witchcraft?
Your words have the power to alter your mindset and the atmosphere around you.
It will help you to walk in faith, and it is your faith in the end that alters your situation and allows God to move on your behalf.
There is nothing wrong or occultic about this teaching.
Obviously there is extremes, and this I will happily join in condemning – but accusing Angus of this far-fetched.
Please can we have some better examples of where he did this – except for an “Expect”-rant like in this article.

I sincerely urge you to repent of your deception.

Look, I am not convinced yet, that I am under any deception.
The worst thing about a deception is that YOU DO NOT KNOW IT!
As a former atheist, I have a real passion to ensure this never happens to me again.
Which why I am subscribed to sites like this, so I can ensure that I am not deceived.
I find it a pity though that articles like this, with not a shred of real evidence is published, and an entire move of the Holy Spirit is condemned as satanic witchcraft.
It really makes me question whom is really under the deception here.