Prof Johan Malan – A Gospel of Works – Losing your Salvation (Part 2)

ProfJohanMalan-AGospelofWorks - losing your salvation

Please see Prof Johan Malan – A Gospel of Works – Losing your Salvation (Part 1) here:

2) Prof Malan believes you can lose your salvation.

He says:  “Even Dave Hunt, who masterfully refutes Calvinism’s first four points, faltered when he got to point five by denying that Christians can act in ways which can cause their falling from grace. In his book he says he always regarded himself as a one-point Calvinist until he discovered that he has different reasons for believing in eternal security (ibid, p. 377). He explains that, according to him, eternal security lies in Christ’s atoning work on the cross and He gives eternal life to those who believe in Him. It is indeed eternal salvation imputed to us when we receive Christ, but we have it only as long as we abide in Him. Eternal life is not vested in us but in Jesus Christ, who ever calls His disciples to faithfulness. What happens if we backslide into a life of wilful sinning, no longer walking in the light and turning back to a life of unbelief? What about those who “have forsaken the right way and gone astray” (2 Pet. 2:15), having again become entangled in the pollutions of the world after their salvation? (2 Pet. 2:20). What they lose is not temporal but eternal salvation.”

He says “It is obvious that Dave Hunt disregards the rule of free will in this context. According to the Bible Christians can indeed make wrong decisions, in some cases even towards their own ruin. Timothy was warned against this mistake and encouraged to persevere in his faith and a holy life (1 Tim. 1:19; cf. Heb. 3:6,14). Behold the lamentable condition which churches have lapsed into where members are told that they can never lose their salvation no matter what they do!”   —

Prof Malan does not understand the the verses he has quoted, let explain why it does NOT say that you forfeit your salvation:

It is preposterous to say Dave Hunt was a one-point Calvinist just because Calvinists also believe in eternal security. In that case, you may say that Dave Hunt was a Roman Catholic because they too believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is what Dave Hunt says in his book “What Love is This”:

“Before beginning what turned into an urgent and in-depth study of Calvinism, I had thought that I was at least a one-point Calvinist. Surely my belief in eternal security, the assurance of salvation eternally in God’s presence, must be the same as Calvinism’s Perseverance of the Saints. That turned out, however, not to be the case. Why? Biblical assurance of salvation does not depend upon one’s performance but upon the gospel’s declaration that Christ died for the sins of the world and upon His promise that whosoever believes in Him receives the gift of eternal life. In contrast, the Calvinist’s assurance is in God having predestined him to eternal life as one of the elect – and his performance plays a large part in helping him to know whether or not he is among that select group.” (p377)

Johan Malan insinuates that Dave Hunt advocated licentiousness and that saints can live as they please without ever having to fear that they may lose their salvation. That is NOT what Dave Hunt taught. Malan also makes a big spiel of Hunt’s supposed denial of free-will in the context of eternal security. He argues that the Once-Ssaved-Always-Saved camp promulgates free-will in the context of salvation but denies it in the context of eternal security, meaning that the saint does not have a free-will to decide and choose whether he wants to apostatize from the faith. What does the Word of God say? The Word of God states unequivocally that a true child of God will never WANT to regret his salvation and turn his back on Jesus. “For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented [regretted] of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.” (2 Corinthians 7:10).

The lamentable condition some churches lapse into is not caused by the doctrine of ‘unconditional salvation’ and ‘eternal security’. It is caused by false teachers who twist Scripture. Paul warned Timothy in 1 Timothy 1:19 against the false teachers who made shipwreck of their own faith and that of others. To make shipwreck of the faith does not mean the loss of salvation. How do we know? Paul mentions two persons, Alexander and Hymenaeus, whom he delivered unto Satan so that they may learn not to blaspheme. They did not lose their salvation; their deliverance to Satan was remedial and not punitive. (2 Corinthians 2:5-8). The irony is that Johan Malan and those who believe a saint can lose his salvation are actually the ones making shipwreck of the faith because they are teaching others NOT to trust Jesus who promised: “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.” (Hebrews 7:25). They are teaching saints to rely on and have faith in themselves to maintain and secure their salvation. If they truly had faith in Jesus Christ they would never have doubted His ability to keep saints secure to the very end of their lives.

In Hebrews 3:6 and 14 the “house” does not refer to the body of believers in Christ. The author (whom I believe was Paul) was thinking in terms of the Old Testament priestly duties of the High Priest and the other priests. He was, therefore, referring to the priestly duties of Christians in the house of God over which the Son (as High Priest) is faithful as Moses was faithful over the wilderness tabernacle. It does not teach the loss of a saint’s salvation but the possibility of his loss and the forfeiture of his priestly duties. The Levites by birth could, by virtue of infidelity and unfaithfulness, withdraw from their priestly duties in the tabernacle of Moses and in the same way the a true Christian by his new birth can withdraw from his priestly roll in the economy of God’s house. (1 Peter 2:9). Once again, I must reiterate that those who believe in conditional eternal security (that you can lose your salvation) are actually the ones who are withdrawing from their duties as priest and kings because they are teaching others that they cannot trust Christ for their eternal security. They may deny this, as they always do, but this is exactly what they are doing.

Losing Your Salvation, Is it Possible? Understanding Hebrews 6 (Part 1 and 2)

Losing Your Salvation

Hebrews 6 has caused much confusion among believers throughout the whole of church history, resulting in several interpretations that don’t seem to answer the pressing questions many precious children of God ask to this very day.

  1. The most common interpretation is the very strong assertion that believers can lose their salvation, generally referred to as apostasy.  Some say it deals with persons who were ‘almost saved’ but then turned their backs on Christ. Others believe it describes a sin only possible among Jews living while the temple was still standing
  2. And yet others present it as a “hypothetical case” or illustration that could not really happen.

Hebrews was not written to prove that believers can lose their salvation but to encourage them to remain faithful to their Lord in even the most dire of circumstances, with the intent of gaining the reward/s that Christ has in stall for them if they remain faithful. To get a more intimate awareness of the heart of the book, we need to briefly look at the purpose it was written for.

Leviticus in the Old Testament and the Epistle to the Hebrews need to be studied in tandem, the reason being that Hebrews illustrates the glorious fulfilment in Christ of all the Levitical rituals and sacrifices. Throughout the Epistle a far better dispensation than the Old Testament is put forward because SOMEONE far greater and more superior than any created being in heaven and on earth has appeared, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour. Indeed the keyword of the Epistle to the Hebrews is “BETTER” or “SUPERIOR”.”

On several occasions during His earthly life, Jesus said that He who is greater than the temple, He who is greater than Jonah and He who is greater than Solomon has appeared (Matthew 12:638-45). King Solomon’s splendour, majesty and glory were unsurpassed in Old Testament times. Kings and queens of all the surrounding nations honoured him for his great wisdom and majesty. A great heathen nation (the Assyrians of Nineveh) repented of their wickedness when Jonah preached to them. In both these cases Jesus is the greater One. His splendour, majesty and glory far outweighs that of king Solomon, and His preaching and teaching is far greater in power than that of Jonah.

In the Epistle to the Hebrews Jesus’ superiority to the prophets, the angels, Moses, Joshua and Aaron is elaborated upon to illustrate the glory of His person and His work on earth and in heaven. Every Old Testament figure mentioned in Hebrews of whom Jesus is far greater or more superior, illustrates a certain aspect of Jesus’ accomplished work here on earth, of which we will not go into detail now.

The Epistle was written for Jewish Christians who had grown weary of the persecution and suffering they endured at the hands of the Judaizers. Judaism demanded that the Levitical rites should strictly be adhered to, especially the circumcision rite. In his Epistle to the Galatians Paul emphasizes the grave danger of preaching or advancing a different gospel or perverting the true gospel and pronounced an anathema on anyone who adulterated the true gospel. Why did Paul react so strongly to these Judaizers who were upsetting the faith of the Galatians? The answer lies in the fact that they were maligning or ridiculing the cross of Christ which is the power of God (1 Corinthians 1:18). In doing this they were denying God’s power working through the cross of Jesus, and simultaneously presenting something else (in this case circumcision) in the place of the cross. They were not only ridiculing the cross but also confusing the way of salvation so that many people were in danger, not of losing their salvation, but of wandering off or falling by the wayside by forsaking their public confession of Christ.

These false apostles deserved to come under God’s eternal judgment. They were enemies of the cross and constantly sought to entice the Jewish Christians into returning to their old faith of Judaism. We must always remember that Paul was very severe in his pronouncements against the leaders (especially pastors of congregations) who preached another or a different gospel. But he had compassion and pity for the sheep who where being misled by their pastors. In Hebrews this compassion becomes evident. Some of the Jewish Christians were beginning to get so confused through the teaching of false prophets and apostles that they began to think that they had lost everything (their altar rites, priestly rites etc.) when they abandoned their old faith and started to follow Christ.

These Jewish Christians began to underestimate their Christian privileges in Christ; they were getting too absorbed with their sufferings (feeling sorry for themselves) and they began to backslide into their old ways of religious worship. Hebrews, as we shall see, offers a cure for any kind of backsliding. In fact, the cure or right treatment for faintheartedness and backsliding is a correct understanding of the glory and work of Jesus Christ. Many Christians fall back into their old lifestyles because they do not understand the glory and the work of Jesus Christ. That includes the work He accomplished on earth (the cross) and also His work now in heaven on behalf of all true believers.

Let us now look at the way the writer starts to deal with these despondent and despairing Christians who believe that losing your salvation after being saved is biblical.

  1. First he fills their minds with the glory of the Person, and the grandeur of the work of the Lord Jesus.
  2. Next he shows that, instead of losing ‘all’, they had gained ‘all’ (please note ‘We have,’ in the following verses.

In this verse we are not only given the assurance that we have a High Priest, but it also tells us what our High Priest has accomplished when He ascended and passed through the heavens.

WE HAVE THIS HOPE (Hebrews 6: 19)
The hope that is spoken of in the above verse is not this worldly kind of hope. This hope is not uncertain. It is CERTAIN, it is not something which has no foundation. It is founded on the promise and oath of God. (Hebrews 6:18). When someone makes an oath, he swears by someone greater than himself that he would undertake to do the thing he has promised one hundred percent (Hebrews 6:16-18). An example is when a person swears an oath by the name of his sovereign king or queen. The name of his king or queen becomes the guarantee that he would keep his promise one hundred percent. A truly obedient and subservient citizen will never dishonour his king or queen by not keeping his promise. The dignity of the name of his king or queen will be at stake should he fail to keep his promise. That was the basis on which Moses pleaded with God not to destroy His people when they made and worshipped a golden calf. In Exodus 32 verses 12 and 13 Moses says, “If You destroy your people, the Egyptians will ridicule and make a mockery of Your Holy Name. They will say that you were unable to bring them into the Promised Land and instead slew them in the desert. Your Holy name will be at risk if You do not keep your promise You made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” In Genesis 22:16 we see that God swore by Himself, since He had no greater by whom to swear. God cannot swear by someone greater than Himself because there is no one greater than He. He is the sovereign, eternal and majestic God Who is above and greater than anyone or anything. It is in His Name, the One Who cannot lie, that we have received the promise (hope) with an oath.

God made doubly sure that we do not flinch or waver in our hope by two unchangeable things [His promise and His oath], in which it is impossible for God ever to prove false or deceive us, we who have fled [to Him] for refuge might have mighty indwelling strength and strong encouragement to grasp and hold fast the hope appointed for us and set before us (Hebrews 6:18). As if this double assurance is not enough, God confirms His promise and oath by anchoring our hope in our High Priest, Jesus Christ Who is seated in the Holiest of Holies in heaven (Hebrews 6:19). Whenever a large ship moors in a harbour, the captain orders the anchor to be let down so as to prevent the strongest winds from sweeping the ship into the sea. This is the message that verse 19 of chapter 6 wants to convey to us. Our hope is not anchored in the world where every gust of wind (persecution, suffering, hardship, doctrinal errors etc.) can sweep us away into despondency, faintheartedness or unbelief. Our hope is anchored in the most secure, most powerful, most magnanimous (noble), most wonderful, most lofty place in the entire universe, i.e. the Holiest of Holies in heaven where our High Priest is seated at the right hand of God.

Someone once said that God allows persecution with the purpose of enlarging your bank account in heaven. This seems to be a good observation, especially when Jesus’ words in Matthew 5:11, 12 is taken into account, “Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and say all kinds of evil things against you falsely on My account. Be glad and supremely joyful, for your reward in heaven is great (strong and intense) . . .”

As was said earlier, the Jewish Christians endured persecution at the hands of the Judaizers and some of them lost their possessions through plundering and confiscations. Instead of sympathizing with them, as we all tend to do, the writer encourages them with a burst of joyful exhortation, “you have a better and lasting possession in heaven.” Take careful note that he does not say “you shall have”; He says “you (already) have at this very moment a better and lasting possession in heaven. This reminds me of Peter’s words in 1 Peter 1:4 – 6. Where are our hearts? Are they set upon things here on earth and our belongings, or are they set upon things in heaven? As long as our hearts are set upon earthly possessions, we will never be able to endure persecution. Only when our eyes are fixed on our High Priest where we have a better and lasting possession in heaven, will we be able to endure trials, persecutions and sufferings with exceeding gladness.

WE HAVE AN ALTAR (Hebrews 13: 10)
“We have an altar” refers to our Lord Jesus Christ Who now serves our spiritual interests and needs in the Holiest of Holies in heaven. As we have seen in Leviticus, the Tabernacle with all its furniture and utensils (the Ark of the covenant, the Mercy seat, the Altar of Incense, the Candlestick, the Table of Showbread, the Bronze Laver and the Altar of Burnt Offerings) were only shadows of things to come (Colossians 2:17). As shadows they pointed to Jesus Christ in Whom all the Levitical rites and sacrifices were fulfilled. When Jesus cried out “it is finished” on the cross of Calvary, He simultaneously fulfilled every law concerning the rites and sacrifices pertaining to the Tabernacle and the Temple in the Old Testament, and paid the debt for our sins in full. Therefore it is no longer necessary to adhere to the Levitical rites of the Old Covenant. Nonetheless their were many Jews in those days, as there are today, who are still devoted to rules of diet and ritualistic meals as verse 9 of chapter 13 clearly indicates. These legalistic practices have no spiritual value at all and they do not profit those who observe them. In fact, these persons who cling to the shadows have no right to eat the life-giving spiritual food that Christ Jesus alone can administer.

This is the altar of which is spoken in verse 10 that all true believers have access to. Let me try to explain it to you in simpler words. It would be rather foolish to talk with the shadow of a person on a bright sunny day. Imagine keeping your eyes fixed on the shadow of a man; what do you see? Of course! You only see a dark form of a figure. However when you turn your eyes upward and away from the shadow of the man and focus them on the man himself, everything of that man including his facial features becomes clear. So it is with the Tabernacle rites. As soon as you realize that they are merely shadows of Jesus Christ’s Person and work and you begin to turn your eyes away from the shadows and fix them on Him, you begin to benefit from everything He had accomplished for you on Calvary. The writer warns the Jewish Christians to beware of false teachers whose intent it was to force them back into the shadows of things (to return to their old ways of worship).

In this particular case, persecution reminded the Jewish Christians who suffered for their faith in Jesus that their sojourn (life) here on earth was merely a temporary one. Christians often become comfortable with the world when they forget that they have no permanent dwelling here on earth. We are merely strangers in a hostile world who are passing through, not to indulge ourselves in the pleasures and dainties of the world but to be light bearers of our Great Light, Jesus Christ. Many children of God have grown so accustomed to the world and everything it has to offer that they have lost sight of the city which is to come. Persecution is often the only cure for such worldly-mindedness and complacency. The other side of the coin is that one can become so absorbed with your own suffering and persecution that we begin to lose sight of our eternal dwelling in heaven. Some of the Jewish Christians seem to have failed to resist the temptation of returning to their former Judaist faith. The Jewish Christians began to feel so sorry for themselves that the writer deemed it necessary to remind them that they had not yet resisted or withstood sin and sinners (false brethren) to the point of pouring out their own blood (Hebrews 12:4). He explains in verses 2 and 3 of chapter 12 that Jesus Christ Himself is their supreme example of suffering. He did not cringe from His sufferings on the cross. No! He had His eyes fixed on the things beyond the cross and suffering. He endured the cross, despising and ignoring the shame, for the joy that was set before Him. Like Jesus, we too have an ecstatic joy that is set before us. This joy will be realized in full when we enter the permanent city which is to come.

In this part I tried to turn the searchlight on the question why Hebrews was written to the persecuted Jewish Christians. It is evident that it was written to encourage them to remain faithful with the intent of gaining the prize that was set before them; not to grow weary and as a result fall by the wayside. Indeed, they were encouraged to copy the Author and Finisher of their faith, Jesus Christ (Hebrews 12: 2) In the next part I aim to concentrate more on Hebrews 6, the chapter that causes so much confusion among our brethren.

Losing Your Salvation, Is it Possible? Understanding Hebrews 6 (Part 2)

The main purpose of the epistle to the Hebrews was to encourage the Jewish Christians to press on to perfection by remaining faithful to the Lord without having to return to the “shadows” contained in the Levitical laws. Under duress of the false apostles who enticed them to rely on external rites, such as circumcision, the Jewish Christians began to believe they needed to do those things to retain God’s favor and mercies, much like today’s believers who assert that steadfast perseverance is needed to retain one’s salvation and if they fail that the loss of salvation is imminent. Unfortunately, the notion that perseverance secures a believer’s salvation turns the spiritual eyes inward to “self” and a reliance on human effort to retain and maintain salvation instead of on Christ Jesus Who is the Author (Source) and Finisher of our faith. Those who do not believe in eternal security accuse those who do believe in it of “cheap grace.” This is what

Dave Hunt says of their accusation:

Those who believe in “falling away” accuse those who believe in “eternal security” of promoting “cheap grace.” The latter in itself is an unbiblical expression. To call it “cheap” is really a denial of grace, since it implies that too small a price has been paid. Grace, however, must be absolutely free and without any price at all on man’s part ; while on God’s part the price He paid was infinite. Thus for man to think that his works can play any part in either earning or keeping his salvation is what cheapens grace, devaluing this infinite gift to the level of human effort.

To speak of “falling from grace” involves the same error. Since our works had nothing to do with meriting grace in the first place, there is nothing we could do that would cause us to no longer merit it and thus “fall” from it. Works determine reward or punishment-not one’s salvation, which comes by God’s grace. The crux of the problem is a confusion about grace and works.

In the Greek, Christ’s cry from the cross, “It is finished!” is an accounting term, meaning that the debt had been paid in full. Justice had been satisfied by full payment of its penalty, and thus God could “be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus” (Rom:3:26). On that basis, God offers pardon and eternal life as a free gift. He cannot force it upon anyone or it would not be a gift. Nor would it be just to pardon a person who rejects the righteous basis for pardon and offers a hopelessly inadequate payment instead-or offers his works even as “partial payment.” (Read the full article here).

Salvation is not the subject of Hebrews 6 but repentance. We have grown accustomed to associate the word “repentance” only with salvation without taking into account that it also has much to do with sanctification (“growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ” as Peter 3: 18 says). In this regard “repentance” involves the believer’s attitude to God’s Word and his/her response to it in obedience or disobedience. In fact, it is Hebrews that makes it very clear the God’s Word is sharper than “a two-edged Sword piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” (Hebrews 4: 12). Here it is made quite clear that the Word pierces (penetrates) the mind (or conscience) to impress on a wayward sheep the incumbency to repent and the imperativeness to discern between the carnal and the spiritual so as to walk in the Spirit and not according to the flesh (the dividing asunder of soul and spirit).

It is in this sense that the author of Hebrews wants to convey the truth that it is impossible to bring to repentance those who have been enlightened by His Word and who have consciously tasted the heavenly gift of salvation and have become sharers of the Holy Spirit (in other words, genuinely saved saints of God), and have felt how good the Word of God is and the mighty powers of the age and world to come if they deviate from their faith and turn away from their allegiance to Christ.

In other words the Word of God (Sword of the Spirit) cannot bring God’s children to repentance (changing their fixed mind sets) if they do not respond in obedience to the penetration of the Spirit’s two-edged sword. To get a better understanding of the meaning of the phrase “renewing them to repentance” we need to turn to Galatians 3: 3, “Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh. Have ye suffered so many things in vain?”

As long as believers rely on the flesh or their own efforts to be made perfect (reach the runner’s finishing line and win the prize); if they remain adamant and persist in reaching the goal in their own efforts, even the Word of God cannot bring them to repentance (change their minds for the better). It does not mean that they cannot repent of their sin of obstinacy. It simply means that the Word cannot bring them to repentance as long as they rely on their own fleshly efforts to reach the goal of their salvation.

Apostasy (falling away) and losing your salvation

Note very carefully that verse 6 in this chapter does not say, “it is impossible to renew them again to repentance” and therefore they have lost their faith (salvation). It says “if they fall away” which simply means “if they deviate from the faith.” Faith in Christ is to trust Him completely for and with everything in our lives. I’m sure we all agree with that! Yet, even the slightest deviation from this faith into a faith in one’s own efforts (even to the extent of persevering to the end so as to retain one’s salvation) cannot please God. Wierbse says:-

“Fall away” is not the Gk. word apostasia , from which we get the English word “apostasy.” It is “parapipto,” which means “to fall beside, to turn aside, to wander.” It is similar to the word for “trespass,” as found in Gal. 6:1 (“if a man be overtaken in a fault [trespass]”). So, v. 6 describes believers who have experienced the spiritual blessings of God but who fall by the side or trespass because of unbelief. Having done this, they are in danger of divine chastening (see Heb. 12:5:13 ) and of becoming castaways ( 1 Cor. 9:24″27 ), which results in loss of reward and divine disapproval, but not loss of salvation. The phrase “seeing they crucify” (v. 6 ) should be translated “while they are crucifying.” In other words, Heb. 6:4:6 does not teach that sinning saints cannot be brought to repentance, but that they cannot be brought to repentance while they continue to sin and put Christ to shame.

Consider carefully that not the field but the fruit in verse 7 is burnt. God is glorified when we bear much fruit unto His glory and honour, and this can only come about if we abide in Christ (His death and resurrection life), for He Himself said, “without me you can do nothing.” (John 15: 1 and further) Any kind of self-effort, even unto the maintenance of our salvation, are but the fruit of the flesh (thorns and thistles) and will be burnt in the end by God who is a consuming fire (1 Corinthians 3: 10-15). “But if any person’s work (even his own perseverance activated by the flesh) is burned up [under the test], he will suffer the loss (of it all, losing his reward), though he himself will be saved, but only as [one who has passed] through fire.”

Does the security of our eternal salvation give us a license to sin? God forbid! As Paul said, “What shall we say [to all this].” Are we to remain in sin in order that God’s grace may multiply and overflow? Certainly not? How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? (Romans 6: 1-2).

What lies at the root of the fruit of conditional salvation (security)? ie. losing your salvation

There is only one thing that drives those who believe that saints can lose their salvation – DISTRUST

  • They distrust Christ Jesus who said: “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.” (John 10:28)
  • They also distrust his empathic promise: “My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. (John 10:29)
    Here we see that the believer and his salvation is securely fixed in the hands of both the Father and the Son.
  • They distrust his words in Philippians 1:6: “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you WILL perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.”
  • They distrust his promise in Hebrews 12: 2: “Looking unto Jesus the author and FINISHER OF OUR FAITH; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” (Hebrews 12:2)
  • They distrust his words in 2 Corinthians 7:10: “For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”

The tragedy is that they are not even ashamed of their distrust of Him and to distrust Him is to displease Him

“But without faith it is impossible to please and be satisfactory to Him. For whoever would come near to God must [necessarily] believe that God exists and that He is the rewarder of those who earnestly and diligently seek Him [out]” (Hebrews 11:6)

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Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Tom Lessing is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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Calvinism and arminianism are both false gospels, and they’re actually the same. Arminianism says that your lack of good works or too many bad works, cause you to lose salvation. Calvinism says that lack of good works or too many bad works, cause you to prove that you never had salvation.

The focus of both is YOUR WORKS. The two are identical. If a person ends up in hell due to failure of their works, then what difference does it make which of these labels they attach to themselves?

But avoiding hell is only by faith in Jesus Christ (John 3:16), without works (Romans 4:5). Thus, calvinism and arminianism are both wrong.


Hi Debs, wonderful to read about the reconciliation. I respect you for what you have done. >8 )

Deborah (Discerning the World)


That is why we here at DTW get so hot under the collar when we are called Arminian by dem Calvinists because we are not.

Arminianism actually formed the Methodist church through John Wesley as he carried Jacob Arminius theology into the future and today the Methodist church are actually Arminians amongst a few others who believe in this doctrine.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Dear Irma

Thank you :)


Amen Deb-ster
I am no friend of Calvinism and I am NOT Arminian. NO WAY!

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:


That is why we here at DTW get so hot under the collar when we are called Arminian by dem Calvinists because we are not.

Arminianism actually formed the Methodist church through John Wesley as he carried Jacob Arminius theology into the future and today the Methodist church are actually Arminians amongst a few others who believe in this doctrine.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Arminianism is based on the theological ideas of the Dutch Reformed theologian Jacobus Arminius (1560–1609) and his historic supporters known as the Remonstrants. It is known as a soteriological sect of Protestant Christianity.[1] Dutch Arminianism was originally articulated in the Remonstrance (1610), a theological statement signed by 45 ministers and submitted to the States-General of the Netherlands. The Synod of Dort (1618–19) was called by the States General to consider the Five Articles of Remonstrance. They asserted that:
1 election (and condemnation on the day of judgment) was conditioned by the rational faith or nonfaith of man;
2 the Atonement, while qualitatively adequate for all men, is efficacious only for the man of faith;
3 unaided by the Holy Spirit, no person is able to respond to God’s will;
4 grace is resistible; and
5 believers are able to resist sin but are not beyond the possibility of falling from grace.

Jacobus Arminius was a Dutch pastor and theologian in the late 16th and early 17th centuries. He was taught by Theodore Beza, Calvin’s hand-picked successor, but after examination of the Scriptures, he rejected his teacher’s theology that it is God who unconditionally elects some for salvation. Instead Arminius proposed that the election of God was of believers, thereby making it conditional on faith. Arminius’s views were challenged by the Dutch Calvinists, especially Franciscus Gomarus, but Arminius died before a national synod could occur.[citation needed]
Arminius’s followers, not wanting to adopt their leader’s name, called themselves the Remonstrants. When Arminius died before he could satisfy Holland’s State General’s request for a 14-page paper outlining his views, the Remonstrants replied in his stead crafting the Five articles of Remonstrance.


Aaron is both correct and incorrect. Arminianism does not believe in a works salvation, but they believe that one can lose their faith and the natural progression for this would be cease to do good and even do bad.

Arminius did by his own words believe in the “Conditional Preservation of the Saints” or “Conditional Security”.

For Arminius the believer’s security is conditional—”provided they stand prepared for the battle, implore his help, and be not wanting to themselves.” This complements what Arminius says elsewhere in his writings: “God resolves to receive into favor those who repent and believe, and to save in Christ, on account of Christ, and through Christ, those who persevere [in faith], but to leave under sin and wrath those who are impenitent and unbelievers, and to condemn them as aliens from Christ.”[19] In another place he writes: “[God] wills that they, who believe and persevere in faith, shall be saved, but that those, who are unbelieving and impenitent, shall remain under condemnation.”[20]

Deborah (Discerning the World)


But believing that you can lose your salvation is a works based salvation because you no longer put your faith in Jesus to keep you, you are now working to keep your salvation by not sinning and this places the person under bondage.


What I meant is that they believe that we are saved by faith and not works with which we would agree. In fact, there is certain common ground with Arminians as opposed to no common ground whatsoever with Calvinism.

As far as security of the believer however, they maintain that because one is saved by faith which is a case of free will, that the possibility exists that one can lose their faith through free will.

As I said, in their way of thinking, the natural progression and result of losing one’s faith is the lack of good works and turning away. We would instead say it is a backslidden condition and that God will discipline and chasten His own. After conversion, free will still exists of course, but not to the point of reversing our born-again state.

Therein lies the reason we do not hold to Arminianism. ARMINIANS CARRY FREE WILL TO THE EXTREME and discount the fact that when one is converted, born again, that one is a new creation, an irreversible event occurs.

They do not understand that the Lord Jesus Christ keeps us secure, we do not. It is an accomplished fact that cannot be reversed or undone by our free will. We don’t have the power to undo what God has done!

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Thomas said:

Arminius himself said of the foul accusation that he believed in the loss of salvation:
“At no period have I asserted `that believers do finally decline or fall away from faith or salvation.”‘” (Jacobus Arminius, The Works of James Arminius, trans. James and William Nichols (Baker Book House, 1986), 1:741.))

Maybe someone should put that into wikipedia..

So it was not Jacob Arminius who set up the 5 points to counter Calvinism Tulip it was ‘the Remonstants’; “When Arminius died before he could satisfy Holland’s State General’s request for a 14-page paper outlining his views, the Remonstrants replied in his stead crafting the Five articles of Remonstrance.” It was them that stated: 5 believers are able to resist sin but are not beyond the possibility of falling from grace.


Jacob Arminius, in his own writings seemed to cause confusion on the issue of holiness and the possiblity of falling away from the faith. No wonder his followers took some latitude on relating his views. Arminius was an admirer and follower of St. Augustine. That alone speaks volumes and is a red flag waving.

It is interesting to read “Getting Acquainted with Jacob Arminius” by John Knox.

Here is one excerpt which should salt one’s oats to dig deeper:


In this chapter, he brings up the fact that he has been accused of Pelagianism because of his speculation that a believer can live a sinless life. “It is reported, that I entertain sentiments on this subject, which are very improper, and nearly allied to those of the Pelagians.” However, the error of his attackers is that they are failing to acknowledge the caveat he includes in his understanding of perfection. With his understanding that nothing happens without the direction of God, Arminius states, “it is possible for the regenerate in the life perfectly to keep God’s precepts.” He then goes on to show how he is only promoting ideas similar to that of St. Augustine.

He continues, “Though these might have been my sentiments yet I ought not on this account to be considered a Pelagian, either partly or entirely, provided I had only added that ‘they could do this by the grace of Christ, and by no means without it.'” As with earlier chapters, Arminius makes sure to keep the grace of God as the crucial element in his doctrine. Arminius goes on to defend himself by remarking that he never asserted that a person can live free from sin, BUT HE NEVER DENIED IT EITHER.

He appeals to the great church father, Augustine, whose own statements suggested the possibility of perfection. Furthermore, he points to the absurdity of his opponents accusing him of being a Pelagian when his ideas merely mirror those of Augustine, “. . . one of the most strenuous adversaries of the Pelagian doctrine.” Beyond this, Arminius proclaims, “I account this sentiment of Pelagius to be heretical, and diametrically opposed to these words of Christ, ‘Without me ye can do nothing:’ (John 15:5)” Arminius wants no misunderstanding of his condemnation of Pelagius and his promotion of the authority of Scripture.

Arminius ends this chapter lamenting the misrepresentation of him by his critics. He assures his audience that what information is being spread about him by men like Gomarus is based only on rumor. He then informs his listeners/readers that he is going to “disclose the real state of the whole matter,” which he does in the next chapter.

Arminianism has spawned the holiness movement such as Wesleyan Methodist and other legalistic movements which are detrimental to spiritual health. Dr. Ironside has written on this about his experiences with striving for holiness and working himself right into a nervous breakdown.

If you look at Arminian websites you will find references to John Wesley and refutation of eternal security.

It may be a mistake to do so, but perhaps Arminius could be compared to John Calvin in an ironic sort of way. Calvin took a huge leap forward but didn’t finish the job which resulted in false doctrine. But at least with Arminus one can say he stood strong against the main deadly tenets of Calvinism. His flaw seems to be to not be clear on eternal security of the believer or come to terms with it himself, leaving open a door to false teaching.

Again, as I said, Arminianism carries free will to the EXTREME discounting the ability of Christ to keep His own for fear of the believer abusing the grace of God. Any believer that does so will give an account and come under the chastening of the Lord, but he/she will not lose their salvation.


Have you researched the work I referenced by John Knox? What I quoted is from an Armininian site.

As much as I respect Dave Hunt and his valuable work “What Love Is This?” and his courageous stand against Calvinism, he is not without flaw. And neither was Jacob Arminius. This does not take away from the good that they did. But we have to face facts.

Somehow through Arminius’ influence the holiness movement got started and it stems from the issue of eternal security of the believer, that a believer can lose their salvation by walking away.

Thomas, may I direct your attention to this work by Jacob Arminius at

entitled “Arminius on the Perfection of Believers in This Life” where he refers to his affinity to the teachings of St. Augustine. This from the horse’s mouth, not quoted from another source.

The intent is not to disrespect Arminius, but to examine the facts.


And Brother Thomas, I have quoted from the works of Jacob Arminius in his own words. How can you discount that my friend? No one is accusing JA of Pelagism.

We are getting a bit off topic here, but I think it is important to know JA’s stance on perfection in the life of the believer, don’t you? That is the Achilles’ Heel of Arminianism is it not?.


Also, Thomas, I did not say the quotes were a flaw, I said brother Dave was not without flaws as are all of us, including Jacob Arminius. JA seems to say one thing one time and then another thing another time.

We know Satan is the author of confusion. By flip-flopping on this issue confusion has obviously ensued, resulting in error. Only God knows the true intent of JA’s heart and mind when he arrived at his final moment on this earth. But in any case there was confusion which allowed those who followed to pick up the ball of their choosing and run with it.


Thomas, you are not even looking at the evidence that I have given in

I did not include quotes as the website says one must have permission. JA speaks FAVORABLY of St. Augustine and he is noncommittal, thereby leaving a vacuum in which leaven of false teaching can grow and has grown.

I have taken the limited time I have to look into this and it seems that it has fallen on deaf ears and misunderstood at every turn. I CLEARLY stated that I was not inferring in ANY way that JA was Pelagious. But you keep beating that dead horse.

My concern is about his stance on holiness in the believer’s life and if one can walk or fall away.

I am out of time and I hope that someone else can pick up on this as I cannot devote any more effort to it. I am somewhat perplexed that you deflect all the evidence that I have given.

[EDITED by DTW: Please see comment:

Deborah (Discerning the World)

I’m just diffusing a ‘situation’ here by deleting 2 comments that I believe should not have been said :) ok?

Redeemed, you confused the situation by bringing Dave Hunt into the equation from the beginning instead of looking at Dave Hunt’s books that he QUOTED FROM.

And I agree with Thomas, Arminius did not appear to speak two different messages, he spoke one message the other message were the lies from his detractors that he constantly had to defend.

Redeemed, looking at that link you provided that you can quote from Arminius says, “From this quotation it is apparent, that St. Augustine, one of the most strenuous adversaries of the Pelagian doctrine, retained this sentiment, that “it is possible for a man to live in this world without sin.” this is a blatant refutation of St Augustine.

If you read that link properly you will see that Jacob is against Pelagius and Augustine. So I am not sure what you were reading when you opened that link :P

I was really under the impression until now that Jacob A was a bad guy, but I have seriously changed my mind. However that does not make me an Arminian, it just means that Arminianism was not started by Jacob Arminius but by those Remonstrants.


Redeemed wrote: “Aaron is both correct and incorrect. Arminianism does not believe in a works salvation, but they believe that one can lose their faith and the natural progression for this would be cease to do good and even do bad.”

Believing you can lose salvation, is works for salvation. So you are incorrect. Losing salvation is indeed a false gospel of works, and anyone that says you can lose salvation, is teaching works for salvation.

As for the rest of the discussion that is going back and forth, I don’t particularly care what Jacob Arminius said. When I referred to “arminians”, I was referring to the modern-day understanding of what people mean when they use that term. Jacob is dead so I’m not particularly interested in any defense of him.


Aaron, one CAN be saved by the Gospel of Arminianism. They do NOT say that you have to do works to be saved. They do not teach Lordship Salvation if I understand it correctly.

One who receives Christ and is converted does not possibly understand the rest of what they teach. You are confusing the basis for original conversion with the standard for maintaining the faith.

One CAN be saved if a Gospel by faith not works is preached by a group that does not hold to eternal security.

You are mixing apples and oranges and throwing the baby out with the bath.

I see your point that they believe that one has to do works to maintain salvation, but that is an entirely separate issue.

I agree that the discussion on the beliefs of Jacob Arminius is beside the point. Whoever made it what it is today doesn’t matter – it is what it is and that is the crux of the issue. We know that whoever was at fault they are a tool of Satan, the one who is behind all false teaching.

Deborah (Discerning the World)


The entire point of this article is this: that they believe that one has to do works to maintain salvation. We are NOT talking about having to do works to get saved. So please just stop bringing up this issue.

Aaron is correct.

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