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Author: Research Authors (Discerning the World)

Meet Calvin and Bob: How a Calvinist Should Witness to the Lost

Meet Calvin and Bob How a Calvinist Should Witness to the LostBy Steven M. McCalip

If you’ve read any of my other Calvinism articles, you know by now why it’s a false gospel. I thought you should see Calvinism in action, though, for there’s nothing like seeing its application in real life. Imagine, if you will, (no theological pun intended) a Calvinist witnessing his gospel to a lost man. What I will show you here is no exaggeration of their beliefs. I do realize that some of the views here are what is called “Hyper-Calvinism,” and for those that are uninitiated in this nonsense, it is basically Calvinism taken to its logical conclusion-that because God has preordained everything, nothing we do changes anything or makes a difference in the long run. Now I know that Calvinists will scream and say this doesn’t represent them, but if they are honest, they will admit that Hyper-Calvinism is what regular Calvinists teach, but they just don’t want to admit it. The word “choose” shouldn’t even be in the Calvinist’s bible. So then, some of my statements may reflect this other flavor of Calvinism, but it is just the same tree with a different branch. Calvinists (Hyper or non) can’t reconcile man’s free will with God’s will. They don’t think God’s sovereignty is big enough for including both. I will (there’s that word “will” again) use what they teach and show you the absurdity and madness of its teachings when preached to people who know nothing about it.

Most Calvinists don’t have the stones (It’s OK-it’s scriptural) to tell people what they really believe because they know deep down inside that their own teaching really is just plain contradictory. If they really told people what it means for people to be picked ahead of time to go to heaven and hell, I would venture to guess that they wouldn’t be talking to people very long before being laughed to scorn. Even the heathen recognize that if God is contradictory, they want no part of him. Calvinists know that, so since they won’t tell others what they truly believe when they are witnessing, I will do it for them.

Here is my parable of Calvin and Bob (Calvin the Calvinist and Bob the heathen):

Calvin: Hello there. My name is Calvin. You know, it’s no accident that I bumped into you at this restaurant and that we are having this conversation. Every move we make, every thought we have, everything we say, even everything we eat, is according to God’s predetermined will for us.

Bob: Hello Calvin. I’m Bob. Wow! So no matter what I do or say, it’s the will of God, right?

Calvin: Well, God gives us responsibility, and we are accountable to him, and everything that happens is his permissive will, and he is sovereign. In fact, he is so sovereign that nothing can happen without his stamp of approval.

Bob: So, was that a “Yes” or a “No” as to everything that happens being his will?

Calvin: Nothing happens that is not decreed or his will. Yes, everything is God’s will eventually.

Bob: So every act of evil that ever been committed on earth, from every murder to every rape to every blasphemous act is planned on purpose by God himself? Hey, that’s a new excuse criminals could use at court. God makes everything happen. So it’s really not “The Devil made me do it.” It’s “God made me do it.” Either way, it wasn’t the criminal’s fault. So why do any criminals go to jail? Didn’t God make them do it eventually?

Calvin: Nothing happens without God willing it to happen. Man is responsible for his actions even though God causes those actions to happen according to his will. In other words, even though God causes you to sin, you’re still responsible for it. Even though that might sound contradictory, and in fact is contradictory, I have no other way to explain that other than it’s a great mystery, you know, kind of like the Catholics and all their great mysteries of everything.

Bob: So God holds man responsible for what God himself makes him do? Isn’t God a judge? Would you think it was right for a human judge to condemn a criminal to life in prison for an act he was forced to do? If God is responsible for doing all of this, why I am responsible for what he does?

Calvin: Well, uh, well, you see, well uh, because God’s sovereign and he can do what he wants, and you can’t argue with that. The clay can’t tell the potter what to do you know. Romans 9.

Bob: Well, if I have no say in the matter, then I’ll just party like it’s 1999 because there’s nothing I can do about it anyway, right? I mean, God decided exactly what sins I am going to commit, and he in fact makes me sin, so since I have no say in the matter, I think I’ll just keep sinning.

Calvin: Well, if you’re elect, you won’t have that attitude.

Bob: What do you mean elect? How does one get elected? Does God vote for us?

Calvin: Well, we don’t know why God chose certain ones to go to heaven and most others to go to hell. In reality, there’s nothing you can do to get elected. You just have to hope you’re one of the chosen ones, I guess. Some of my church teaches, though, that if your Mom or Dad or grandmother or grandfather was elect, you will be, too. We call that “covenant salvation” so we won’t have to worry about our own children being damned to hell by God’s sovereignty. Isn’t that conveniently sweet?

Bob: Sounds like a heavenly lotto system to me and salvation by heredity.

Calvin: Well, let me preach the gospel to you and see if you are elect. If you’re elect, you’ll believe it as long as God gave you his spirit ahead of time so you can believe it, for we also teach that you’re so wicked you can’t believe anything about God anyway.

Bob: Why preach the gospel to me at all? Won’t I get saved no matter what you do since everything’s determined ahead of time anyway?

Calvin: Well, yea, you’re right, but I’m supposed to preach anyway just to make sure and look responsible. I’m supposed to preach to everyone in case there’s some elect person listening. Most of the time, though, I am wasting my time preaching to those who will never be able to believe anyway and who haven’t been chosen. Sometimes it’s just sad thinking about it.

Bob: That sounds hypocritical. I thought my will determined nothing. Why do you act like it does?

Calvin: Well, we like to teach that God is in total control but make people think their will still matters. It makes them feel like they have a fighting chance, when deep down, we know their will and choices mean nothing to God. God is sovereign you know.

Bob: Now, I may not know a lot of theology, but can’t God combine his sovereignty and man’s free will and still make things work out as planned since he is Almighty?

Calvin: No, that would mean that man’s free will controls God. God’s sovereignty is not that strong.

Bob: Sounds like your God’s sovereignty is not all that sovereign. Is he intimidated by man’s freewill? I always thought God could make it work using both.

Calvin: We just can’t see how God could incorporate man’s free will and his total sovereignty. We just think those are irreconcilable. We haven’t figured out how God could do that, so we say he can’t. We call that Calvinism. Those who disagree with us we call Arminians. We say you have to believe one way or the other. We like to set up false choices like that because most people won’t recognize it’s a set up.

Bob: Well, if it will help you out any, even though I’m lost, I still think that if there’s a God, he must be able to plan around things like man’s freewill. If not, I don’t think that’s a God I’m interested in-one that can’t even plan around man’s freewill without getting upset that his sovereignty is challenged.

Calvin: Let me just try this gospel out on you and see if you are elect. The scriptures say that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. Now the way we see it, that really means that God so loved SOME of the world that he gave his only begotten Son to them and them only.

Bob: You mean he didn’t love me enough to die for me?

Calvin: Well, technically speaking, God didn’t die for you unless you’re one of the chosen ones from eternity past.

Bob: So how do I know that I’m one of the chosen?

Calvin: If you believe in him.

Bob: But I don’t know what to believe, and you said I can’t believe anyway, that God has to make me believe. If God hasn’t made me believe so far, how do I know I’m chosen to believe?

Calvin: Yes, it’s kind of tricky, but you’ll catch on. Just keep praying that you’re chosen and maybe you are. If you’re not praying that your chosen, you’re probably not. Then again, if you are wanting to be chosen and aren’t chosen, then, well, I haven’t figured that one out yet.

Bob: So if I want to be saved, does that mean I’m elect and chosen?

Calvin: No, not necessarily. Nobody wants to be saved unless God makes them want it. I don’t even know if God made you want to be saved until you actually get saved.

Bob: So if I tell you I want to be saved, that’s not truly me desiring that? That’s God making me desire that?

Calvin: That’s right. According to the Protestant Pope, John Calvin, our beloved founder, you are so wicked that you don’t have any capability of desiring God, so he has to want it for you.

Bob: So how do I know the difference between me and God, between my desire and his?

Calvin: You can’t. They’re one and the same when it comes to desiring him. Our religion won’t let you have your own desire to be saved. We say you’re too wicked.

Bob: That sounds like I have to get a lobotomy to be saved, that God has to give me a spiritual brain transplant.

Calvin: No, we call that regeneration. God regenerates you to believe in him.

Bob: I thought I heard someone quote a scripture that said,” As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God.” That says you can receive him and then he gives you the power to become a son of God. Doesn’t that say you can receive him first before he gives you power? Also, there’s another scripture that says “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.” Believe first, then you get his Spirit. It’s not rocket science.

Calvin: Well, there are many scriptures that sound like you can believe him and receive him, but those all really mean the opposite of what they say. There’s others, too. Just remember that every time Jesus says “whosoever can” or “all men can” or “come unto me,” what he really is saying is, “Whosoever of the elect can” or “all of the elect can” or “come unto me all you elect”. See how that works? You’ve just got to know the right lingo and code language and what Jesus really meant. Only Calvinists know what he really meant.

Bob: So every time Jesus told a crowd of people “Come unto me and be ye saved,” he was only talking to the elect ones? Did the un-elect know that he wasn’t talking to them, and if not, doesn’t that make Jesus a liar by offering salvation to them when they couldn’t have it anyway?

Calvin: Well, Jesus offers salvation to everyone, but only the elect want it. Jesus knows the un-elect don’t want it, but he goes through the motions to offer it to them also just to prove to them they don’t want it.

Bob: So let me get this straight. Jesus, the man who never lies, offers salvation to those who aren’t chosen, who don’t want it, who can’t believe in it, and who can’t receive it, and who won’t be given it anyway, and then he damns them for not having it?

Calvin: Yes, it was his good pleasure to do that. He has that right you know. Jesus was obviously a staunch Calvinist.

Bob: You’re telling me that Jesus has the right to lie to people by offering them things they can’t receive, to make them think they can go to heaven but really can’t? Shouldn’t Jesus just have come out and said: “Most of you have not been chosen to go to heaven, so everything I offer you is only for the elect?”

Calvin: We choose not to look at it that way; I mean, we were meant not to believe that way (“choose” is a “no-no”). We only focus on God’s right to do what he chooses whether it makes God contradict himself or not. God’s sovereignty always trumps the truth and his other attributes.

Bob: So God didn’t die for me?

Calvin: I don’t know if he died for you. Maybe. It depends on if you’re electd. I don’t know if you’re elect. So I have nothing to promise you or offer you unless you can prove to me you’re elect. If you’re elect, he did die for you. If you’re not elect, he didn’t die for you.

Bob: Can the Lord save me?

Calvin: He can only save those he promised to save and no more. Once that number is reached, salvation is no longer being offered. When the scriptures say that Jesus “is the Saviour of all men,” “all” doesn’t really mean “all.” It means “some.” Darn that King James version!

Bob: Didn’t Paul say that Jesus “is theSaviour of all men, specially of those that believe.” Doesn’t that show that he is the Saviour of the elect and everyone else?

Calvin: Yes, it does sound that way. We teach that means that Jesus is the Saviour of all the elect, specially the elect that believe. Even though our explanation sounds ridiculous, we hold on to it at all costs. We just can’ t understand why Jesus went around giving the impression that everyone could be saved. We need to talk to him about that. But I guess he’s sovereign, and he can do things like that. We’re just the clay, you know. Can’t tell the potter that he sounds contradictory to our theology.

Bob: So he can’t forgive my sins either?

Calvin: God only died for the sins of those he cares about. The rest of mankind is out of luck. The Bible says Christ died for our sins. It didn’t say “your” sins. Christ is our Saviour, not yours, unless you’re elect of course.

Bob: Well, if you don’t know if Christ died for my sins, why are you even preaching to me? You can’t tell any man and be honest that Christ died for his sins and rose for his justification. You can not offer any man that hope, can you?

Calvin: Well, since only the elect had their sins paid for, and since very few are elect, then there’s a good chance he didn’t die for your sins or most people I talk to. Since I don’t know who’s elect or not, I can’t tell anyone, anywhere that Christ died for his sins. I would be lying. So I have to say things like Christ died for man’s sins and make you think he died for yours when I know good and well I have no idea if he did or not.

Bob: So you really have no good news to offer anyone personally. You just talk about God dying for sins in general but no one person in particular. Is that right?

Calvin: We don’t like to put it that way, but yes, you’re right. Christ died for the elect, his chosen ones. You’re either one of them or not. Don’t take it personally if Christ didn’t say he died for you. He didn’t have to save anyone you know. He’s sovereign. I just love saying that word.

Bob: Don’t take it personally? If he didn’t die for me and my sins, then he doesn’t even want to save me. What kind of Saviour is that?

Calvin: That’s what makes him even more special to us, knowing that he died for only us and not every Joe Blow. Aren’t we blessed? We call that limited atonement and unconditional election. Sounds intellectual, doesn’t it?

Bob: Sounds like a god who plays favorites and could care less about me.

Calvin: Oh, he cares greatly about the elect. If you’re the elect, then he loves you so much.

Bob: He does? Did he die for my sins and lay down his life for me?

Calvin: Well, he did for some people. Isn’t that good enough for you?

Bob: I always heard “God is love”. I guess you retranslated that to “God is love for some.”

Calvin: We just don’t understand all the deep things of God like his unconditional limited atonement and irresistible grace and all that other theological jargon. But we must accept it, nonetheless, even though it makes us look like complete idiots.

Bob: How about just believing that God can save anyone? Is anything too difficult for him?

Calvin: Yes, he can can save anyone if he chooses. But he didn’t choose that. But that doesn’t mean he plays favorites even though it sounds like he does. We are aware that scriptures says he is “no respecter of persons,” but we believe that means other things that don’t contradict this teaching. There, that makes me feel much better.

Bob: So how does God save someone? Does he make them believe in him since you say man is so wicked he can’t believe?

Calvin: That is right. God forces you to believe in him even though you don’t want to since you don’t know him yet. He puts his Spirit inside you and makes you a new man without you believing any part of the gospel. You don’t have to believe the gospel since you can’t if you wanted to.

Bob: I thought you had to believe Jesus is God and he rose from the dead?

Calvin: Well, you admit those things AFTER he saves and regenerates you. You’re too wicked to believe those things before he saves you.

Bob: So nobody can really believe anything about God anyway, can they?

Calvin: Not until God makes them believe against their will. God converts you first so you can believe him and get converted again. Wait a minute, I think that’s what we teach, but that doesn’t sound right, does it?

Bob: So God makes you a believer so you can believe? That is contradictory.

Calvin: It may sound contradictory, but that is just the mystery of his sovereignty that you will have to accept.

Bob: Let me get this straight. You don’t know if I am elect, so you don’t know if I can believe anything. You don’t know if Christ died for my sins and rose for me, but you’re hoping I might believe that anyway because I could be one of those ones he secretly infused with his Spirit before they knew anything and made them a believer without them knowing a thing.

Calvin: Well, I wouldn’t put it that way. We like to say God chooses you and gives you his Spirit so you can believe him.

Bob: Is that true love to make someone love you who doesn’t love you to begin with?

Calvin: That’s one of those human analogies. You can’t apply that to God.

Bob: I thought God became a human, so why can’t I apply that to God?

Calvin: Oh yeah, you’re right. Ooops. Well, again, we don’t put it in that perspective. We like to think that God prepares the hearts of those he loves so they can love him. There, that sounds better.

Bob: Well, I am a father, and if I had to do that with my kids to make them love me, I wouldn’t want that kind of love from them. That’s fake, artificially created love. I want my children to love me out of their own choosing, not because I made them. Doesn’t that sound reasonable? Is that the kind of love you want from your children?

Calvin: No, that’s just man’s wickedness. Man is too wicked to love, so God has to make him love God. That’s just your Armenianism coming through. You don’t think man is wicked enough. Your sentimentality won’t convince me.

Bob: So when God gave Adam a choice between the good tree and the evil tree in the Garden to prove his love for God, that test was rigged? Man’s choice wasn’t really involved?

Calvin: “Rigged” would be a harsh term. We prefer “pre-ordained foreknowledge”. There, that sounds much better.

Bob: Well, since I literally have no choice in anything I do concerning God, then I’ll just wait around and see if God chooses me or not. In fact, no matter what I do affects his will anyway. My will doesn’t matter, so no matter what I do, God’s will prevails right?

Calvin: No, no, today is the day of salvation. Scripture says, “Now is the acceptable time.”

Bob: If now is the acceptable time, then that must mean that my will and his can co-exist, and I can choose him at what time I choose. Right now is as good as any time and not only at some pre-ordained time.

Calvin: You know, you do have a point there. Why would God say, “Now is the acceptable time” and “Today is the day of salvation” if man only comes when he’s been chosen to come, including the chosen time? Those scriptures do say man can come at any time and get saved. That does throw a kink in the armour.

Bob: I think the scriptures aren’t as sovereign as you make them out to be.

Calvin: They certainly do cause us trouble from time to time, but our commentaries always have an answer.

Bob: Faith doesn’t come from hearing commentaries, does it?

Calvin: Well, they certainly increased my faith, so that scripture is suspect also.

Bob: Well, I think I you need to work out your theology before you witness to the next guy. I may not know my Bible, but I have enough sense to recognize when someone is opposing himself. If God chooses us to become like you, I’ll pass on your sovereign god. God must have pre-ordained me to have some common sense!

source:  How a Calvinist Should Witness to the Lost: Meet Calvin and Bob

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14 comments to Meet Calvin and Bob: How a Calvinist Should Witness to the Lost

  • Sharon

    Wow. That would be funny if it weren’t true. How does a Calvinist witness to a lost person? When I have the opportunity to witness to an individual I tell them that God loved them so much that He sent His only begotten Son to die on the cross to atone for their sin. That is truth. But for the Calvinist it would be a lie since the Calvinist doesn’t know if the person is the “elect” or not.

    I ask a person this question to get started off with a conversation about their salvation; if you were to die today and was standing before God and He says, why should I let you come into heaven? Then they usually reply something to the effect of, I’ve been good, I care for my family, I’ve gone to church for most of my life, I give money, I, I, I. Then the door is opened further to say that God provided a way for them to live forever with Him in heaven.

    But the Calvinist…what do they say? How do they present the great Love of God? How do they talk of the precious blood of Jesus that is powerful enough to atone for the sins of mankind, all that have ever lived or will live? How do they tell about the peace of God in a day when peace is rarely found? Do they say in spite of our circumstances we can have a peace that passes all understanding? Or is this peace just for the elect Calvinist? Can they say to them that knowing Jesus Christ as their Savior is “joy unspeakable and full of glory? Or because it says “unspeakable” they take that to mean thy don’t have to witness? I’m just sayin.

    I’m believing they either LIE to the one being witnessed to or they don’t bother witnessing at all. After all, non-elect souls are dying and going hell…guess they deserve it for not being one of the elect…right? Sad, very sad. Perhaps they feel it would just be wasting their breath because most likely the person is lost/non-elect anyway. After all why would God want them to waste their sanctified hot air on a hell bound non-elect?

    To me this is what Calvinism is about…I’m going to heaven because God elected me before the foundation of the world. So to HELL with you! I wonder if at the Great White Throne Judgment if God might make a saved Calvinist throw that person into Hell that they were supposed to witness to and didn’t. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm I doubt that will happen, but I just be a thinkin.

    Deb-ster…I appreciate so much the hard work you put into this blog and I thank you for letting me post here. I already had my belief’s concerning Calvinism, but I still am learning as to just why I do hate Calvinism so very much. To me, this blog is a breath of fresh air…you hit the issue hard, right on the nose. You’re hated by the Calvinists for it but you are loved by me as a fellow sister-in-Christ. Well most likely never meet in person here below. But one sweet long eternal day…we will do lunch!

  • Rob Diamond

    LOL Great illustration!

  • Jean

    Wow so you think mocking peoples beliefs with a strawman article that misrepresents them gives you credibility? Reformed people witness because we are told to by the great commission and we don’t know who the elect are. SHAME ON YOU for mocking us this way.

  • james jordan

    “How a Calvinist Should Witness to the Lost”

    They shouldn’t, because they’re lost themselves.

  • Jean

    No, you are mocking God when you believe and teach that Jesus does not love everyone and did not die for the non-elect but piously preach the Gospel not knowing who is the elect are. Are you an elect? How do you know? Do you know because you believe in Jesus? The devils also believe and they tremble.

  • Sharon

    If you can’t stand the heat then get out of the kitchen. No one is mocking Calvinism. We, meaning Deborah, Dan, Thomas, myself and others warn against this false teaching. But if I did mock Calvinism then my fate is still secure in Jesus. The Calvinist is worshipping Calvin’s words/TULIP rather than following Jesus Christ. See in Calvinism ALL doesn’t mean ALL. Whosoever doesn’t mean whosoever to a Calvinist. The whole world doesn’t mean the whole world to a Calvinist. In Calvinism the atonement that Jesus purchased on Calvary wasn’t for everyone. To me and my never to be humbled opinion how much more would Jesus have to do to reach your “non elect types”? He bled out. Each and every drop of His precious blood atoned for all of humanity. Those of us who received Jesus by faith are saved forever. Those who will not believe will be “without excuse” when they stand before God at the Great white throne judgment. They will realize then that their sins were atoned for but they refused the free gift of Salvation that Jesus provided on Calvary.

    Nope, I’m not mocking Calvinism because it is not funny. I know what this “reformed theology has done to my best friend and I cry about her.

    What in the Lords true church needed reforming? Long before Luther & Calvin were ever born there were believers hiding in caves and mountains living and worshipping God in the true way. The ancient church did not preach, teach or believe anything that Calvinists do and many of these ancient brothers and sisters in Christ were burned at the stake, beheaded, banished naked in the winter weather, and drowned. They received this persecution not just from Rome. John Calvin used his authority in his little kingdom of Geneva to murder some where between 50 to 55 true believers. As much as John Calvin hated Rome he retained many of Rome’s false doctrine. His hatred for Anabaptists/Baptists was as great if not more than his hatred of Rome.

    So no, I do not mock Calvinism, I do hate it though. I hate no person, no one. I am not an eloquent writer or speaker. I am a simple woman with only a High School education. But I’ve been attending the “School of Hard Knocks” for most of my adult life. It doesn’t take a college degree to figure out the damnable, mongrel teaching of John Calvin. The man is most likely in hell and has been there for some 500 years now. Look around this web site under the topic of Calvinism and read the Salvation statement of John Calvin. He never asks forgiveness for his sin. There are no words of repentance. He doesn’t even mention Jesus Christ. I hope you come out of a denomination that preaches the things of Calvinism. The longer you stay and listen the more deceived you will become.
    Peace to you, His peace.

    Jean wrote:

    Wow so you think mocking peoples beliefs with a strawman article that misrepresents them gives you credibility? Reformed people witness because we are told to by the great commission and we don’t know who the elect are. SHAME ON YOU for mocking us this way.

  • james jordan wrote:

    “How a Calvinist Should Witness to the Lost”

    They shouldn’t, because they’re lost themselves.

    Are you saved, James?

  • Redeemed

    Jean, Thomas is right. You are the one who is making a mockery out of God’s plan of salvation.
    What is going on here is exposing error, not promoting it.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    Jean wrote:

    Wow so you think mocking peoples beliefs with a strawman article that misrepresents them gives you credibility? Reformed people witness because we are told to by the great commission and we don’t know who the elect are. SHAME ON YOU for mocking us this way.

    There you go again proving you are a Calvinist :) You said, “we don’t know who the elect are”. Ah dude, really. You contradicts yourself so many times I’ve lost count.
    You speak with such BIG words, but your logic is so flawed I can see right through you.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Very funny isn’t isn’t. I had a good laugh at “Calvin: Yes, it’s kind of tricky, but you’ll catch on. Just keep praying that you’re chosen and maybe you are. If you’re not praying that your chosen, you’re probably not. Then again, if you are wanting to be chosen and aren’t chosen, then, well, I haven’t figured that one out yet.”

  • Hester

    Well, I had a good laugh at Calvin too. The only thing NOT real in this article is the gentleness of Calvin. Trust me it is not gentle at all!!
    The latest to explain 1 Tim 2:3 – 6 is “firstly, you cannot read universalism into this. God does not desire anyone to go to hell. He is heart sore about it. But there is a difference between his desire and his will and the fact that he is heart sore about it shows that it is not his desire but it is his will” WHAT!!!! I was so mad when I read that and now I am asked “kan jy my sê wat het geword van Jesus se oneffektiewe bloed? En van watter punt af die wat nie gered word nie, vir hulle eie sondes begin betaal?” (can you tell me what has happened to Jesus’ ineffective blood? and from which point can those that are not saved, start paying for their own sins?).

    It truly is a war out there.

  • Barland

    Hi. does anyone know if ICBM (International college of bible and missions) in Roodepoort is Calvinistic? One of the lecturers defended Calvinism. I would really like to know. I do intend to find out next week but would like to know if they believe and promote it. Regards. Barland

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)


    I have no idea, but I would not be surprised.

  • Marius Muller

    As nothing happens without the will of God ,does God send people like Calvin to unknowingly talk to the non elect too?Calvin in this story did not know whether Bob was elect or not but God did know.What would be the purpose for sending “Calvins” to talk to non elect people?Calvins can only do what God wills,Is it nor extremely cruel to send Calvins to talk to non elect people about others who are elect.It has to be God that sends a Calvin to a non elect person whom God only already knows is not elect.I cannot believe that this is who Calvinists make God out to be and then declares it a mystery.

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The following conditions does not mean that the authors of Discerning The World permit only opinions that are in agreement with us. This also does not mean that we fear dissenting opinions or ideas that are contrary to the beliefs that we hold (and/or that of the revealed Scriptures of the Holy Bible).

The following describes the Terms and Conditions applicable to your use of the “Comments” submission service at the Discerning the World website.


  1. Discerning the World owns and operates the site (the “Site”). Your use of the features on the Site allowing for submission of a “Comment” is subject to the following terms and conditions (the “Terms”). Discerning the World may modify these Terms at any time without notice to you by posting revised Terms on the Site. Your submission of a “Comment” to the Site following the modification of these Terms shall constitute your binding acceptance of and agreement to be bound by those modified Terms.
  2. By submitting a “Comment” you are accepting these Terms through your clicking of the “POST COMMENT” button.
  3. Discerning the World has the right, but not the obligation, to take any of the following actions, in Discerning the World’s sole unfettered discretion, at any time, and for any reason or no reason, without providing any prior notice:
    1. Restrict, suspend or terminate your ability to submit “Comments,” to the Site;
    2. Change, suspend or modify all or any part of the Site or the features thereof;
    3. Refuse or remove any material posted on, submitted to or communicated through the Site by you;
    4. Deactivate or delete any screen names, profiles or other information associated with you; or
    5. Alter, modify, discontinue or remove any comment off the Site.
  4. You agree that, when using or accessing the Site or any of the features thereof, you will not:
    1. Violate any applicable law or regulation;
    2. Interfere with or damage the Site, through hacking or any other means;
    3. Transmit or introduce to the Site or to other users thereof any viruses, cancel bots, Trojan horses, flood pings, denial of service attacks, or any other harmful code or processes;
    4. Transmit or submit harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, deceptive, fraudulent, obscene, indecent, vulgar, lewd, violent, hateful or otherwise objectionable content or material;
    5. Transmit or submit any unsolicited advertising, promotional materials, or spam;
    6. Stalk or harass any user or visitor to the Site; or
    7. Use the content or information available on the Site for any improper purpose.
  5. You retain the Copyright of any “Comment” you submit to Discerning the World. By submitting a “Comment” to Discerning the World, you agree to grant Discerning the World a irrevocable, non-exclusive, royalty-free, perpetual license to use the material or commentary that you have submitted, in any medium and in any manner that Discerning the World may, in its sole unfettered discretion, choose.
  6. By submitting a “Comment” to Discerning the World, you agree to comply with the following rules concerning such submissions:
    1.  You agree not to include in your “Comment”:
      1. Any false, defamatory, libelous, abusive, threatening, racially offensive, sexually explicit, obscene, harmful, vulgar, hateful, illegal, or otherwise objectionable content;
      2. Any content that may be seen as stalking or harassing of any other Site contributors;
      3. Any content that personally attacks an individual. (An example of a personal attack is posting negative comments about an individual in a way meant to demean that person. Note that posting your opinion about someone’s ideas, doctrine or actions is not a personal attack);
      4. Any content that discloses private details concerning any person, for eg., phone numbers that have not been made public, photos that are not in the public domain, residential address that is not public, ID numbers, Social Security numbers, email addresses that are not in the public domain, etc.;
      5. Any content that you know to be false, misleading, or fraudulent;
      6. Any use of profanity;
      7. Any content including advertisements or otherwise focused on the promotion of commercial events or businesses, or any request for or solicitation of money, goods, or services for private gain;
      8. Any content that contains software viruses or any other computer code, files or programs designed to interrupt, destroy or limit the functionality of any computer software or hardware or telecommunications equipment; or
      9. Any content directly or indirectly soliciting responses from minors (defined as anyone under 18 years of age).
    1. If any part of the “Comment” is not your original work, it is your responsibility to add the name of the third party, name the book with page number or a link (url) to the website where you obtained the information.
    2. Your “Comment” may contain Copyrighted material, the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. You are however allowed to make such material available in your “Comment” in an effort to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc.  This constitutes a ‘fair use’ of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this Site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to:
    3. If you wish to use copyrighted material from a website or any other medium for purposes to add to your “Comment” that go beyond ‘fair use’, you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. (Fair Use means you may quote from copyrighted sources, but you may not publish the whole article, book, etc., in your “Comment”.)
  8. You are solely responsible for the “Comment” you upload, post, transmit or otherwise make available to others using this Web Site. Under no circumstances will Discerning the World be liable in any way for any “Comment” posted on or made available through this Site by you or any third party.
  9. You understand that all “Comments” on this Site are pre-screened or moderated. That means that every “Comment” needs to be approved by Discerning the World before it appears in the “Comments” section.  This is not an automatic process.  Discerning the World does this for SPAM reasons.
  10. Discerning the World has the right (but not the obligation) in their sole unfettered discretion to remove any “Comment” that is posted on or available through the Site. Without limiting the foregoing, Discerning the World has the right to remove any “Comment” that violates these Terms or is otherwise deemed objectionable by Discerning the World in its sole discretion.
  11. You understand that Discerning the World in their sole unfettered discretion is not obligated and can not be forced in any manner, be it legal or otherwise to remove any “Comment” that is posted on or made available through the Site by you.
  12. When submitting a “Comment,” you will be asked to provide your name and your email address. While Discerning the World does not object to your use of a pseudonym instead of your actual name, Discerning the World reserves the right, but not the obligation, to reject, change, disallow, or discontinue at any time any submission name that, in Discerning the World’s sole unfettered discretion, is objectionable or inappropriate for any reason. Discerning the World requires the submission of your email address, but Discerning the World warrants that it will not publish your email address to an outside third party without your consent.
  13. Discerning the World does not sell or rent your personal information to third parties for their marketing purposes. From time to time, Discerning the World may contact you personally via email. Notwithstanding the foregoing, you acknowledge and understand that the “Comments” feature of the Site is designed to permit users to post information and commentary for public review and comment and thus you hereby waive any expectation of privacy you may have concerning any likeness or information provided to the Site by you.
  14. You are solely responsible for your interactions with other users of or visitors to the Site.
    1. Discerning the World shall have the right, but not the obligation, to monitor interactions utilizing the “Comments” facility of the Site, between you and other users of or visitors to the Site. You acknowledge and agree that Discerning the World, or any third party shall not be, and you shall not seek to hold them, responsible for any harm or damage whatsoever arising in connection with your interaction with other users of or visitors to the Site.
    2. Discerning the World does not verify any information posted to or communicated via the “Comments” sections of the Site by users and does not guarantee the proper use of such information by any party who may have access to the information. You acknowledge and agree that Discerning the World does not assume, and shall not have, any responsibility for the content of messages or other communications sent or received by users of the Site.
  15. The Site contains content created by or on behalf of Discerning the World as well as content provided by third parties.
    1. Discerning the World does not control, and makes no representations or warranties about, any third party content, including such content that may be accessible directly on the Site or through links from the Site to third party sites.
    2. You acknowledge that, by viewing the Site or communications transmitted through the Site, you may be exposed to third party content that is false, offensive or otherwise objectionable to you or others, and you agree that under no circumstances shall Discerning the World be liable in any way, under any theory, for any third party content.
    3. You acknowledge and agree that the Site, and the contents thereof, is proprietary to Discerning the World and is protected by copyright. You agree that you will not access or use the Site or any of the content thereof for any reason or purpose other than your personal, non-commercial use.
    4. You agree that you will not systematically retrieve data or other content from the Site by any means, and you will not compile a database or directory of information extracted from the Site.
    5. You agree that you will not reproduce, distribute or make derivative works of the Site or any of the contents thereof without the express consent of Discerning the World.
    6. You hereby agree to indemnify, defend and hold harmless Discerning the World, its affiliates and licensees, and all of their officers, directors, employees, agents and representatives from and against any and all liabilities, losses, claims, damages, and expenses (including attorneys’ fees) in connection with any claim arising out of your use of the Site or violation of any of these Terms.



16. These Terms constitute the entire agreement between Discerning the World and you with respect to the subject matter hereof, and supersede any previous oral or written agreement between us with respect to such subject matter.

Thank you!