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	Comments on: The Pre-Tribulation Rapture (Part 1)	</title>
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	<description>Discerning Biblical Answers for Christians in Todays World</description>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-496325</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2020 16:29:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=13567#comment-496325</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-496324&quot;&gt;Deborah (Discerning the World)&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Deborah,

The definition, according to a good dictionary, of hyperboles are &quot;exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally&quot; or one can say, &quot;exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken seriously.&quot; Well now. That&#039;s dangerous, very, very dangerous when people do not take Jesus and his prophecies seriously.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-496324" >Deborah (Discerning the World)</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Deborah,</p>
<p>The definition, according to a good dictionary, of hyperboles are &#8220;exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally&#8221; or one can say, &#8220;exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken seriously.&#8221; Well now. That&#8217;s dangerous, very, very dangerous when people do not take Jesus and his prophecies seriously.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Deborah (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-496324</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deborah (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2020 12:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=13567#comment-496324</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-496323&quot;&gt;Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Tom

You said &quot;Anyone, who regards his prophecies as mere hyperboles, is suggesting that He Himself is a mere hyperbole, and a figment of the imagination.&quot;

Exactly!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-496323" >Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Tom</p>
<p>You said &#8220;Anyone, who regards his prophecies as mere hyperboles, is suggesting that He Himself is a mere hyperbole, and a figment of the imagination.&#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-496323</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2020 10:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=13567#comment-496323</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-496322&quot;&gt;Deborah (Discerning the World)&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Debs. Well said. Jesus never used hyperbolism in his prophecies and promises. Whoever taught Lila that His prophecies and promises are mere metaphors and hyperboles are probably not saved. Prophecies and their 100% fulfilment prove that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the only One true God. Anyone, who regards his prophecies as mere hyperboles, is suggesting that He Himself is a mere hyperbole, and a figment of the imagination.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors. Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: (Isaiah 46:8-10)&lt;/blockquote&gt;


]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-496322" >Deborah (Discerning the World)</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Debs. Well said. Jesus never used hyperbolism in his prophecies and promises. Whoever taught Lila that His prophecies and promises are mere metaphors and hyperboles are probably not saved. Prophecies and their 100% fulfilment prove that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the only One true God. Anyone, who regards his prophecies as mere hyperboles, is suggesting that He Himself is a mere hyperbole, and a figment of the imagination.</p>
<blockquote><p>Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors. Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: (Isaiah 46:8-10)</p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: Deborah (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-496322</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deborah (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2020 09:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=13567#comment-496322</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-496321&quot;&gt;Lila&lt;/a&gt;.

Dear Lila

You said &quot;and Jerusalem and the Temple was utterly and completely destroyed in the judgment of the Day of the Lord&quot;

In 70 AD did Jesus Christ return and set foot on the Mount of Olives, defeat the antichrist at the end of the judgement Day of the Lord?  Are we now living in the 1000 year Millennial reign with Jesus Christ reigning over us and was Satan bound - or is this all hyperbole and metaphors as well?

Please point us to these books and resources that have convinced you?

&lt;strong&gt;And most importantly also please tell us who are your favorite preachers/teachers/ministers that you like listening too?&lt;/strong&gt;

Please read:  https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/13/amillennialism-and-dominionism-not-much-difference/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-496321" >Lila</a>.</p>
<p>Dear Lila</p>
<p>You said &#8220;and Jerusalem and the Temple was utterly and completely destroyed in the judgment of the Day of the Lord&#8221;</p>
<p>In 70 AD did Jesus Christ return and set foot on the Mount of Olives, defeat the antichrist at the end of the judgement Day of the Lord?  Are we now living in the 1000 year Millennial reign with Jesus Christ reigning over us and was Satan bound &#8211; or is this all hyperbole and metaphors as well?</p>
<p>Please point us to these books and resources that have convinced you?</p>
<p><strong>And most importantly also please tell us who are your favorite preachers/teachers/ministers that you like listening too?</strong></p>
<p>Please read:  <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/13/amillennialism-and-dominionism-not-much-difference/"  rel="ugc">https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/08/13/amillennialism-and-dominionism-not-much-difference/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Lila		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-496321</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lila]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2020 07:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=13567#comment-496321</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tom, thank you so much for your article. What do you have to say to the arguments that the language about the last days are metaphorical and reference the metaphors of the OT prophets? Eg when Jesus says there won’t be a time ever as horrible and destructive as this it is hyperbole, as Rome was the greatest power, the known world to the writers, and Jerusalem and the Temple was utterly and completely destroyed in the judgment of the Day of the Lord; in the OT this kind of hyperbole happens a lot too...

I am reading some of the preterist arguments and have been pretty convinced, so I’d like to hear your take. I’d love to point you to specific books and resources if you want to look into this more deeply and perhaps write an article about it. Grace and peace of the Lord, thank you again and I will keep you and Deborah in prayers and ask the Lord convict us of truth!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, thank you so much for your article. What do you have to say to the arguments that the language about the last days are metaphorical and reference the metaphors of the OT prophets? Eg when Jesus says there won’t be a time ever as horrible and destructive as this it is hyperbole, as Rome was the greatest power, the known world to the writers, and Jerusalem and the Temple was utterly and completely destroyed in the judgment of the Day of the Lord; in the OT this kind of hyperbole happens a lot too&#8230;</p>
<p>I am reading some of the preterist arguments and have been pretty convinced, so I’d like to hear your take. I’d love to point you to specific books and resources if you want to look into this more deeply and perhaps write an article about it. Grace and peace of the Lord, thank you again and I will keep you and Deborah in prayers and ask the Lord convict us of truth!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-453818</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2017 17:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=13567#comment-453818</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-453698&quot;&gt;Michael&lt;/a&gt;.

Michael,

The tribulation will last seven years and the Antichrist cannot reveal himself until the body of Christ has been removed before the seven year tribulation begins.  It&#039;s as simple as that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-453698" >Michael</a>.</p>
<p>Michael,</p>
<p>The tribulation will last seven years and the Antichrist cannot reveal himself until the body of Christ has been removed before the seven year tribulation begins.  It&#8217;s as simple as that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-453698</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jan 2017 03:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=13567#comment-453698</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Rapture is PreWrath, so there is still a Rapture followed by a time of judgment and then Christ returns.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Rapture is PreWrath, so there is still a Rapture followed by a time of judgment and then Christ returns.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-453669</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jan 2017 16:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=13567#comment-453669</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-453659&quot;&gt;Fleur lewis&lt;/a&gt;.

Fleur lewis 

First of all the phrase &quot;the kingdom of God is within you&quot; cannot mean that it is/was a spiritual kingdom within the Pharisees. They were unbelievers and for Jesus to have said and meant that the Kingdom of God was within them, would have turned the Gospel message based on faith in Him on its head. In fact, it would have been an endorsement of the infamous doctrine called &quot;Universalism&quot; or &quot;Universal  Redemption.&quot; The phrase simply  means that the Kingdom of God was in their midst, in the sense that the Messiah and King of that Kingdom was among them and urged them to repent so that they could enter into his Kingdom when He returns at his Second Advent, not the Rapture.

You said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;God does not reign where people have promised to submit themselves to God’s righteousness and sovereignty. That’s pure nonsense. The Israelites promised Moses to do everything God commanded them but failed dismally (Exodus 19:8; Jeremiah 42:6)).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Do you submit completely to God;s righteousness and sovereignty? If not, then He is not reigning in your life.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-453659" >Fleur lewis</a>.</p>
<p>Fleur lewis </p>
<p>First of all the phrase &#8220;the kingdom of God is within you&#8221; cannot mean that it is/was a spiritual kingdom within the Pharisees. They were unbelievers and for Jesus to have said and meant that the Kingdom of God was within them, would have turned the Gospel message based on faith in Him on its head. In fact, it would have been an endorsement of the infamous doctrine called &#8220;Universalism&#8221; or &#8220;Universal  Redemption.&#8221; The phrase simply  means that the Kingdom of God was in their midst, in the sense that the Messiah and King of that Kingdom was among them and urged them to repent so that they could enter into his Kingdom when He returns at his Second Advent, not the Rapture.</p>
<p>You said:</p>
<blockquote><p>God does not reign where people have promised to submit themselves to God’s righteousness and sovereignty. That’s pure nonsense. The Israelites promised Moses to do everything God commanded them but failed dismally (Exodus 19:8; Jeremiah 42:6)).</p></blockquote>
<p>Do you submit completely to God;s righteousness and sovereignty? If not, then He is not reigning in your life.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Fleur lewis		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-453659</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fleur lewis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2017 05:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=13567#comment-453659</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[“God reigns where people have promised/submitted themselves to his righteousness/sovereignty by striving for the heavenly life through self-denial and contempt for the world and their life on earth. The kingdom thus consists of two aspects, namely that God is to change our evil desires through his Spirit, and that God is to reform our senses so that we can obey his sovereignty.” (Inst. 3.20.42). “The kingdom of God is where God reigns supreme through his Spirit.” (Catechism, 269 – see Calvin (1981)

God does not reign where people have promised to submit themselves to God’s righteousness and sovereignty. That’s pure nonsense. The Israelites promised Moses to do everything God commanded them but failed dismally (Exodus 19:8; Jeremiah  42:6)).

I dont understand ?? Jesus said
Luke 17 : 20 - 21

20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“God reigns where people have promised/submitted themselves to his righteousness/sovereignty by striving for the heavenly life through self-denial and contempt for the world and their life on earth. The kingdom thus consists of two aspects, namely that God is to change our evil desires through his Spirit, and that God is to reform our senses so that we can obey his sovereignty.” (Inst. 3.20.42). “The kingdom of God is where God reigns supreme through his Spirit.” (Catechism, 269 – see Calvin (1981)</p>
<p>God does not reign where people have promised to submit themselves to God’s righteousness and sovereignty. That’s pure nonsense. The Israelites promised Moses to do everything God commanded them but failed dismally (Exodus 19:8; Jeremiah  42:6)).</p>
<p>I dont understand ?? Jesus said<br />
Luke 17 : 20 &#8211; 21</p>
<p>20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.</p>
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		By: Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)		</title>
		<link>https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-449205</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2015 23:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=13567#comment-449205</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-449189&quot;&gt;Ryan&lt;/a&gt;.

Ryan wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;We know that the lawless one isn’t destroyed by Jesus until the second coming at the end of the Daniels seventieth week so that moves the timing of the rapture to the end of the tribulation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The revelation of the lawless one and his destruction are two different things and seven years apart. Why then would you want to associate the Pre-trib Rapture with his destruction and not his revelation?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/06/28/die-pre-groot-verdrukking-wegraping-2/#comment-449189" >Ryan</a>.</p>
<p>Ryan wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>We know that the lawless one isn’t destroyed by Jesus until the second coming at the end of the Daniels seventieth week so that moves the timing of the rapture to the end of the tribulation.</p></blockquote>
<p>The revelation of the lawless one and his destruction are two different things and seven years apart. Why then would you want to associate the Pre-trib Rapture with his destruction and not his revelation?</p>
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