Dear Vinncent

I think the best is to look under the Rapture category and read all articles here.

Hi Vincent,

Romans 13:11 & 1 Peter 1:9 does this refer to an immidiate, or a future chronological time, a present until future?
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. (Romans 13:11)

Please note the word “now.” It denotes progression. To them the “now” was nearer to their salvation than when they believed, in the same way the “now” is nearer to our salvation than when we believed (much, much nearer of course – more than 2000 years nearer, I would say). The “salvation” cannot refer to “being born again” when we believed. It must, therefore, refer to something else and indeed, it does. It refers to the Pre-Tribulation Rapture when all the believers will finally be delivered (saved) from sin, temptation, corruption and death. I’m referring to the resurrection of all the believers (Jesus’ bride) when they are going to receive their new spiritual bodies like unto that of Jesus at the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

To understand 1 Peter 1:9 better, we need to go back to verses 3 and 4

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, (1 Pe 1:3-4)

Note the phrase “hath begotten us (saved us) again unto a lively hope.” Why would He say “begotten us again” when we had already been begotten (saved) the moment He redeemed our souls? Because this is “unto a lively hope.” The latter is just another way of saying “saved us unto the blessed hope” and as you may know the “blessed hope” is a reference to – yep, again – the Pretribulation Rapture.

Matthew 10:22 (Matthew 24:13; Mark 13:13). As you have rightly pointed out the exact same phrase “endureth to the end shall be saved” appears in all three these passages. Whereas the salvation in the aforementioned passages (Romans 13:11 and 1 Peter 1:9) relates to the Pretribulation Rapture, these passages refer to the seven-year tribulation itself and particularly to the end thereof. At first glance, it seems to say that saints need to strive to maintain their salvation because if they don’t they will lose it. That’s not what it means. It speaks of all those who are going to be saved during the seven-year tribulation, a time, as Jesus said, never had its likes in the past and will never again, and who will need to endure to the very end so that they may enter the Millennial age of peace on earth in their natural bodies. It simply means that those who by the grace of God, remain alive throughout the seven-year tribulation will enter Jesus’ Kingdom on earth unscathed in their natural bodies.

But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. (Hebrews 3:6)

The context here is not eternal salvific security. It deals with the saints’ priestly and kingly roles in the Son’s priestly house where He is now seated at the right hand of God, ever living to intercede for us. Hence the mention of Moses’ faithfulness in the tabernacle in the wilderness which was a shadow of Christ’s priestly office in heaven at the right hand of the father. Paul, who I believe was the author of Hebrews, was concerned that some of the brethren would succumb to false doctrines and develop an “unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God” causing them to lose or forfeit their duties in the Son’s priestly house.

I assume you included 2 Timothy 2:19 to suggest that those who believe that saints cannot lose their salvation are implying that you may live as you like, knowing full well that you cannot lose your salvation. In other words, OSAS encourages debauchery and sinfulness. This is an unfounded accusation. In fact, the NO-OSAS bunch’s herald that the saints must strive to maintain their salvation lest they lose it, is in itself sinful and debauched. Why do I say that? Well, the Bible says that our best works are like a filthy rag, causing it to be totally unacceptable to God. So, you can try as much as you like to maintain your salvation without realizing that your trying (efforts) are as sinful as the worst sins imaginable. We are never commanded to try not to sin. We are commanded to die to sin. Of course, any failure to overcome sin in your live will have its consequences and these are the consequences:-

For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:9-15)

You asked:

Do the precidents in the old testament fall away or is Acts 5:9 a fluke in the new testament?

To what precedents in the Old Testament are you referring? Bear in mind that after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit a huge revival followed suit. It is obvious that the devil, a liar from the beginning, tried to put a stop to it and used two believers to achieve his goal. The reason why God acted so swiftly in judgment was to protect the ongoing revival. Had He not acted in the way He did, Satan could very well have used Ananias and Sapphira to stop or at least damage the revival. Did they lose their salvation? I think not. What they lost, was not their salvation but the rewards they could have won at the Bema throne of judgment (1 Corinthians 3:9-15).

Hi Vincent Holloway,

You have asked a lot of questions and will take some time to answer every single one of them, especially the passages of Scripture you mentioned. However, allow me to ask you. Did you attribute anything from your side to be saved or did Jesus do everything? If your answer is “nothing,” what makes you think you can do something to maintain your salvation?

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? (Gal 3:3)

With regard to the scriptures mentioned do they exclude all those who practice these sins from the Kingdom of God?

Take for example the parable of the sower “fall away” G868 αφιστημι to depart, draw (fall away).
Does a person conclude that the person was not “saved” in the first instance, or that they were, but then departed from hence?

Romans 13:11 & 1 Peter 1:9 does this refer to an immidiate, or a future chronological time, a present until future?

What is Jesus saying in Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13?
What is the writer of Hebrews saying in Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 13-14?

Is 2 Timothy 2:19 referring to a “nice to have” add on of no consequence?

Maybe I am missing the context or the full understanding?

Do the precidents in the old testament fall away or is Acts 5:9 a fluke in the new testament?

Sorry for the many questions, but these are legitimate concerns I have.
If you could shed some light on any it would be of great assistance.

Dear Vincent

I think those verses are pretty self explanatory. Can I ask you why you are asking these questions, what is your aim? Are you trying to disprove once genuinely saved always genuinely saved? 🙂

How do you interpret 1Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:3-5, 1Tim 1:9-10, Rev 21:7-8 & 22:15?
In the general sense.

Hi Vincent, Thanks for your comment.

I am very pleased to see that you are a real Berean who has a special interest in the context in which certain passages are written before you venture to make an opinion. That’s a very good thing. First of all, the best way to determine context is to see whether there are any other passages in Scripture that may elucidate the ones that seem to be more difficult to understand. So let’s do that now and see what happens.
We may summarize the context of Luke 13:22-30 with this verse from Matthew 8.

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Mat 8:11-12)

The children of the kingdom are the Jews, and you may recall that Jesus said these words just after he had healed the servant of a Roman Centurion (a Gentile) who said to Him: “And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.” When Jesus offered to go immediately to his home , the centurion said: “The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.” Jesus said “Wow, did you hear that? This man is a Gentile and not a Jew who are supposed to believe the way he does in order to enter the kingdom of God on earth. Not even the children of the kingdom (the Jews) have this kind of faith that is required of sinners to enter into my Millennial kingdom on earth.”

OK, this is not what He actually said, but that was precisely what He meant. He actually said: “When Jesus heard it, he marveled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.” As you can see, the key to an understanding of both Luke 13:22-30 and Matthew 8:1-10 is the little word “faith.” That makes a lot of sense, doesn’t it especially when we take into account what Hebrews 11:6 teaches: “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”

Contrary to this and like our modern-day Calvinists, the Jews believed they were God’s chosen ones to whom the kingdom on earth was/is promised. Well, that is true. However, that was, and still is today, not enough to be granted entrance into Jesus’ Millennial kingdom here on earth and ultimately into heaven. Jesus’ disciples knew very well that God promised the kingdom to the Jews. That’s why they asked Him, “Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?” Note carefully – not to the Gentiles but to the Jews. Now listen carefully to how He answered them: “It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. (Act 1:7-8).

It was as if He was saying to them: “Whoa, don’t be so hasty. I cannot just willy-nilly give the kingdom of God to the Jews because it was promised to them. They must first hear my Gospel and respond to it in genuine faith (Romans 10:17) before I can grant them entrance into my kingdom on earth. You must first receive power from above and be filled with the Holy Spirit before you can face such a daunting task, i.e. to be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”

Sadly, the Jews to whom He said his disciples should present the Gospel first (Romans 1:16; 2:10; Matthew 10:5-6), did not receive his message of salvation through faith as they should have and were therefore sent to the Gentiles who received it gladly (Acts 13:38-42; 48; Acts 18:6).
Let us now return to Luke 13:22-30. Please take not of the following important elements in this passage.

1. The kingdom of God (verse 20).
2. Many will seek to enter but will be unable. (verse 24).
3. A shut door (verse 25).
4. Familiarity. “We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.” (verse 26).
5. Rejection (verse 27).
6. Eternal punishment. (verse 28)
7. Gentiles from all corners of the earth will sup with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob during the Millennial age of peace whilst most of the Jews will be thrust out into an eternal hell (verse 29).

1. The mention of the kingdom of God in verse 20 immediately tells you that Jesus was dealing with the Jews in particular. We’ve already seen from Scripture that the Millennial Kingdom of Christ on earth is primarily Jewish.

2. And so also is the seven-year tribulation after the pre-trib rapture and prior to the Millennial kingdom primarily Jewish. It is called the time of Jacob’s trouble (Jeremiah 30:7). However, many gentile unbelievers who will have been left behind at the pre-trib rapture, will also enter into the seven-year tribulation and many of them will be saved during that time. (Read the parable of the great supper in Luke 14). The Millennial Kingdom is often likened to a great supper or a wedding feast. In fact, the marriage of the Lamb will take place in heaven and the marriage supper here on earth (during the Millennial Kingdom) when many gentiles from all four corners of the earth will sit down and sup with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob while Jesus Himself will serve them.

3. The only precondition to enter into the Millennial Kingdom is faith. Unfortunately, many Jews, who will know by all the many signs given to them during the seven-year that Jesus Christ’s return to earth is at hand, tribulation (1 Corinthians 1:22), will not obey the invitation to repent and obey the Gospel.

4. These are the ones who will base their kinship to Jesus on familiarity and their kinship to father Abraham (Matthew 3:9). Hence their words, “We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.” (verse 26). They were, in fact, saying: “Why would you bar us from your wedding supper during the Millennial Kingdom that was promised to us when we have eaten and drunk with you so many times in the past?”

5 to 7 Nevertheless, they are going to be rejected because of a lack of oil (salvation). This is where the parable of the five wise and five foolish virgins come in. These virgins refer to the Jews, some of whom will be ready for Jesus’ Second Advent at the end of the seven-year tribulation and some won’t. You may recall that when the foolish virgins went out to buy oil for their lamps that had gone out, the Bridegroom suddenly returned and those who were ready (had enough oil and their lamps burning bright), went in with Him to the marriage dinner (Millennial Kingdom on earth). When the foolish virgins returned the door to the Millennial Kingdom was already closed.

Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. (Mat 25:11-12).

I hope this was of some help to you.

Dear Vincent

First you need to look at a good translation like the KJV or NKJV or the Amplified.

Luke 13:22-30 (NKJV)
22 And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem.
23 Then said one to him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said to them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say to you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and has shut to the door, and you begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us; and he shall answer and say to you, I know you not from where you are:
26 Then shall you begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in your presence, and you have taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not from where you are; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Does that make more sense?

[EDITED:Vincent, I’ve edited my comment]

>> Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say to you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

They seek it, but do not agonize for it, and hence, they are shut out. They have a sense of godliness but deny God’s power (2 Timothy 3:5) They know who Jesus is (or some false doctrinal version of Jesus), but He never came into their life and renewed them.

>> When once the master of the house is risen up, and has shut to the door, and you begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us; and he shall answer and say to you, I know you not from where you are:

It means that, at the appointed time after the door is shut MANY WILL SEEK to be saved but will not be able to enter in. (Matthew 7:22-23) In other words as an example they procrastinated and said “ah I’ll get saved tomorrow, or I’ll get will saved when things go really bad” but tomorrow never came because Jesus Christ shut the door and no one could enter anymore.

>> Then shall you begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in your presence, and you have taught in our streets.

Again read:

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

This verse includes Satan’s ministers of righteousness (false Christian pastors) and other false Christian (2 Corinthians 11:14-15), they acted (to a degree) like a Christian, and spoke what many believed to be the gospel but it was false teaching that lead millions to hell – their hearts had not been sprinkled by the Blood of Jesus Christ (Hebrews 10:22) i.e., they were not saved. This includes all religions (Jews included) that preached about their coming Messiah and got the shock of their life to find out they were wrong, they preached about a Messiah, but it was a false one.