Jacob Prasch & Chuck Missler – Demonic Nephilim

Jacob Prasch, Chuck Missler - Demonic Nephilim

Jacob Prasch and his friend Chuck Missler both teach the the same demonic Nephilim teaching that angels came down to earth and had sexual relations with human women who somehow miraculously gave birth to ginormous babies who grew to be around 450 feet tall.  Imagine that!  The poor woman must have died giving birth, oh wait…what about carrying a baby that big? *Let’s all laugh together shall we*

The thing is, this is false teaching, it’s a pack of demonic lies, yet Jacob Prasch continues to tells us ‘his opinion’ over and over and over again, brainwashing an unsuspecting audience.  Why does he not examine the Bible only to find the truth of the matter?  Instead of look at occult sources for answers, and then try and fit the bible into his occult conclusions. What is so important about this false demonic Nephilim teachingthat he must keep mentioning it?  And no one bothers to question him because they are all too scared for fear of the backlash.  (See bottom of article regarding backlash by Jacob Prasch).  Well here at DTW we are not scared.  We will ask Jacob Prach why he preaches this doctrine.

Now we understand that Jacob Prasch used Midrash (which contains many fantastical tales relating to the Bible and secret knowledge), to help him come to his conclusions, and we know that Midrash is EXTRA BIBLICAL!  (See this article: Moriel Ministries and MIDRASH)

Lets have a look and see what Jacob Prasch has to say regarding the demonic Nephilim. 

The Future History of the Church, Part 1

by James Jacob Prasch

A typological and midrashic examination of what will happen in the future of the church by seeing how the past history of the church is recapitulated eschatologically; how past events happen again in the Last Days. What to expect, and what to prepare for.  [Emphasis added]

The demonic Nephilim Then and Now

When I was a young Christian, I was a hippie who got saved out of the drug culture. We used to witness eight hours a day sometimes because we thought Jesus was coming next week, so what did anything else matter? I met so many people who said their beliefs were based on gods on other planets, UFOs and such.

When Jimmy Carter became President of the United States, he declassified something called The Blue Report that was put together by the American Air Force, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, and the Central Intelligence Agency. It was not all declassified, but Carter declassified a major portion of it. They found no evidence from exobiology for extraterrestrial life, but they had innumerable cases of people using parapsychology to conjure up extraterrestrial phenomena; there were even cultists who could make these things appear. Similar studies were done in Great Britain. Reading the Blue Report can be quite frightening. There is no scientific basis for belief in extraterrestrials, but a firmly recorded basis in the occult. Uri Geller, the Israeli spoon-bender, said that there were people on other planets trying to persuade him to be the Messiah.

The demonic Nephilim, the fallen ones, are strange characters in Genesis. It would appear that they survived the Flood; whether the demonic Nephilim who were in the land of Canaan when the Jews came to it are a different demonic Nephilim from the ones who were spoken of before the flood is an issue over which theologians are divided; no one is really certain. Some say they are the same ones, some say they’re different. If they are the same, it would mean they had survived the deluge somehow. Nonetheless, these things are “the fallen ones”, and we’re told in Scripture that they copulated with human women.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  No one is divided over this issue, only false teachers who want to tickle the ears of their followers want to divide the truth into error.  Please read below under the heading of  The Truth about the Sons of God, the Daughters of Men and the demonic Nephilim to understand the Biblical truth of the demonic Nephilim.]

Now, most of the popular “deliverance ministry” going around today is a lot of Ghostbusters-type nonsense with no Scriptural basis; I would seriously question whether most of these people could handle real demon possession if it ever faced them – it’s no joke. But I once cast a demon out of a black necromancer who was having sexual relations with demons.

There was a witch in England on television in America, who gave her testimony when she got saved and told of having intercourse with a devil; people witnessed this. This kind of activity was around in the days of Noah, and it will be around again in the Last Days. Somehow demonoids – they were virtual monsters – will exist on the earth again, as they did in Noah’s day. We will see an increase in occult activity, but particularly in this kind of high Satanism; even to the point of people having relations with demons. It already goes on, but it’s going to increase.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  To compare a testimony of someone who had sexual relations with the devil to that of Genesis 6 is pure speculation.  First note that people today who have relations with demons do not fall pregnant – never have and never will.  Will we see an increase in demonic activity, yes, but to say that we will see a rise of the demonic Nephilim again in the end times as was back in the days of Noah is not the truth.]

Man is utterly fallen. I studied science in university, and I have no problem with science. However, it remains that man is fallen. So while I have no problem with science, I know what happens when you put science into the hands of fallen man. It is easy to visualize the kinds of atrocities that can be accomplished with biogenetic engineering; people can eventually take DNA, clone it, and re-create Josef Stalin or a whole race of Josef Stalins. There are things happening right now in genetics that when I studied biology in university would have seemed like science fiction; they no longer are.

I have no doubt – I am not teaching this doctrinally, this is my own opinion – that the world is being set up for a huge spiritual seduction in which UFOs and extraterrestrials along with other things of this type will play a role. It can be seen in David Bowie’s albums and in Stephen Spielberg’s movies, for example. The Bible talks about “the fallen ones”; the ones who fell from heaven, the demonic Nephilim. The cosmos needs to be cleansed. I am quite convinced that extraterrestrial phenomena will be a large part of the spiritual seduction that is on its way. I am also quite afraid of the developments in biogenetic engineering – not the developments themselves, but seeing that kind of technology in the hands of fallen man. When combined with the occult, which scientology and other of these types of groups are already doing, the ramifications are terrible. Somehow, there was a physical manifestation of demons in the days of Noah; that will recur in some way in the Last Days before the Return of Jesus. I won’t speculate on it further, but I do see the way things are heading. This is the kind of world that we have to prepare our children to live in; think about that and then tell me you don’t believe in Christian school!   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  First Jacob Prasch says he has no doubt, but then goes on to tell you that this is NOT BIBLICAL DOCTRINE, it’s only HIS OPINION.  If it’s his opinion, then why oh why is he preaching his opinion as if it were doctrine!  Jacob Prasch preaches this demonic Nephilim teaching on very video I’ve watched, practically ever conference I’ve watched, and mentions it in practically every book he writes.  Why?  Why is he so enthusiastic on getting this lie out to the people?  So they can run over to Chuck Missler’s website and be ensnared in the trap that has been set up for them there?  He says “the fallen ones” meaning “those who fell from heaven”, instead it actually means “apostates”, it is a passive form of  “ones who have fallen”. “The cosmos needs to be cleansed” he says?  What a load of nonsense.  [Emphasis added]

He says we have to prepare our children to live in a world with demon monsters walking around before Jesus returns (presumably before the rapture).  No my dear readers, prepare you and your children for a lot worse;  for men (who don’t look like monsters at all), but who come to you as wolves in sheep’s clothing preaching doctrines contrary to scripture leading you and your children to hell.

Yes there will be an increase in demonic activity in the atmosphere, it is increasing daily as Satan’s time nears an end and people’s minds are caught up in doctrines of demons – Christianity no longer exists, Paganism is now the religion of choice,  just as it was in the Days of Noah – wickedness abounds and will increase to unprecedented proportions.  Just as it was in the Days of Noah and before that, there were extremely wicked people ruling, like we have today; family’s of statue (Rothchilds, Rockerfellers, etc) dictating Satan’s way forward into a NWO.

Source: (link no longer online)

The Truth about the Sons of God, the Daughters of Men and the Nephilim

Are the demonic Nephilim demonic monsters or are they not? The reason I am so passionate about the answer to this question is because of the rise in interest in the supernatural, i.e, aliens, trans-humanism etc.  There are stories running abound that during the end-times demons will be free to do as they please on earth, producing offspring like the demonic Nephilim.  The bible is very clear that we are to not let our minds be captured by occult imagination because when human minds get hold of unbiblical ideas it runs free and causes all sorts of havoc.

Note:  Articles posted by DTW are not an endorsement of the author, their website, ministry or any links therein. Readers are cautioned to use discernment at all times and test everything by the Word of God.  DTW endorses this below article only.

Nephilim

By Pastor Anton Bosch – Permission received by Anton Bosch to re-publish his article.  

The Hebrew word Nephilim is translated “giants” in the Old Testament. It only appears twice in Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33.  A whole series of doctrines have been built around this word, in spite of the fact that the word only appears rarely. These doctrines on the Nephilim are based on Genesis 6:1-4. (It must be noted that most speculators lean very heavily on extra-biblical writings for most of their information.) The theories can basically be summed up as follows:

Demons / angels (sons of God) had illicit relationships with women (the daughters of men) and these perverted relations produced genetically mutated beings known as Nephilim (giants). God then imprisoned some of the angles who did this and in order to purify the bloodline of man God brought on the Flood. Through genetic engineering these demonic Nephilim will be resurrected, one of which will be the Antichrist[i]. To these people, the demonic Nephilim are also connected to so-called extra-terrestrial forms of life.

Since these theories are gaining ground and a number of books have been published based on this hypothesis, it is necessary to examine Genesis 6 again and see what exactly it teaches. We will discover that the proponents of these theories break every principle of hermeneutics. Here is the text:

“Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. And the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown”. (Genesis 6:1-4)

Sons of God

The first problem revolves around who in the passage are the “sons of God”. Some make the connection with Job 1:6; 2:1. “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.” (Job 1:6). It is obvious, and not contested, that the “sons of God” in Job were angels. But does that mean that this term in Genesis 6:2 also refers to angels?

First, the normal meaning of “sons of God” is “believers”. “But as many as received him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name” (John 1:12). Job 1:6 (a poetic book) is the only place where angels are called “sons of God”. It is logical and reasonable therefore that the normal meaning be attached to the term here, rather than the exception, as found in Job, unless there were something in the text that made a connection between Genesis 6 and Job 1 – which is absent.

Second Jesus explicitly said that “in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.” (Matthew 22:30) (See also Luke 20:34-36). Therefore in Jesus’ own words, angels are asexual and do not procreate.

So here is the problem. Genesis is obscure about who had the relations. Jesus said angels do not have relations. So either Jesus was mistaken or the “sons of God” were not angels. You choose! It is really as simple as that – there are no other options.

Some try to get around this by saying that the angels inhabited (possessed) human bodies to do this. That sounds good. But here is the question: A Christian man has the Holy Spirit in him. When that man produces a child by his wife, what is the child? God or man? Clearly, it is a man. There are multitudes of people in the world who are demon possessed and who procreate. What do they produce? Human babies or mutants? Obviously human babies. So why should Genesis 6 be any different. If demons entered into men to produce offspring the children would be human, and only human.

One of the principles of hermeneutics is that the Old Testament is interpreted in the light of the New Testament and not the other way round. In order to say that the “sons of God” in Genesis 6 are angels (or demons) we must discard the light of the NT and that should never happen.

The nature of the relationships

The next problem is that it is claimed that the angels had illicit relations with women. Yet the text is very clear: “they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose” (Genesis 6:2b). The phrase “took wives for themselves” only, and always, means marriage. It never refers to casual, illicit or adulterous relationships. (See Genesis 11:29 &Ruth 1:4). To suggest otherwise is reading into the text that which is simply not there.

Giants

The theory goes that the giants were the product of these illicit relationships. We have shown that the text does not refer to illicit relationships and that the fathers could not be angels.

Genesis 6:4, again is very clear: “There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them.”  Notice that it says there were giants (fact number 1) and afterwards the sons of God came into… (fact number 2). There is NO connection between the fact that there were giants and the fact that people had children.

It is exactly like me saying: “There is milk in the supermarket and eggs are $1.50 a dozen” Milk has no effect on the price, or even the existence, of eggs and the other way around. I am simply stating two facts that describe things about food in the supermarket.

In Genesis 6 Moses is describing the state of the world before the flood. He makes no connection between the demonic Nephilim and the sons of God and daughters of men. If the sentence had been reversed as follows: “The sons of God came into the daughters of men and they bore demonic Nephilim then you could postulate some theory about the nature of this process. But the text does not give us any room to connect the demonic Nephilim with these marriages.

Genesis 6:4 does say that the children that were produced “were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown“. “Mighty men” is a term which is used 154 times in the OT and simply refers to powerful men, either physically or politically. Just like there are many mighty men today and some are men of God and others are worldly and unsaved, so there were mighty men in those days, of which Noah was one.

“Men of old” also holds no mystique, these were simply the heroes of bygone days.

“Men of renown” is also used in Numbers 16:2 and Ezekiel 23:23. These are famous men, or well-known men. The Hebrew term literally means “men with a name” meaning they had “made a name” for themselves.

The descendants of these relationships were not monsters, mutants, or anything extraordinary. Some were ordinary people and some were powerful, some were little known and others had made a name for themselves. Genesis 6:5 (the next verse) goes on to describe these people as wicked and worthy of God’s judgment.

Furthermore, the translation of the word demonic Nephilim in Genesis 6:4 as “giants” is very arbitrary. There are many other possible ways this word could be translated here: “Bullies”, “mighty ones” or “tyrants”.  At least one dictionary states that the demonic Nephilim in Genesis and in Numbers were two different peoples[ii]. Once again, we cannot build an entire doctrine on a word which we cannot translate or explain with any measure of certainty.

Genesis 6:4 is simply a description of life before the flood and not a commentary on mysterious genetic mutant life forms. Jesus obviously has this verse in mind when he says: “But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.” (Matthew 24:37-39) (note the reference to marriage in both verses).

One of the most important principles of hermeneutics is that the verse has to be read in its context. The context is clear, that life was going on as usual, people were becoming more and more self-absorbed and sinful but judgment was coming. This is the same point Jesus was making in Matthew 24 – people will be self-absorbed and fixated on every-day life and will not be ready for His coming.

The cause of the Flood

Those who speculate about the demonic Nephilim connect them with the reason for the Flood. Once again, there is no connection there. Genesis 6 describes life on earth. Yes, there were Nephilim, but more significantly, people were marrying and having children and becoming more wicked. Genesis 6:5-6 cannot be clearer. God’s judgment fell because of the wickedness of man. This had absolutely nothing to do with demons, angels or mutants. Look at these verses again: “Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”(Genesis 6:5-7).

If the flood had anything to do with anything other than man’s sinfulness, either Moses or Jesus would have said something in that regard, but both are silent about demons, angels and mutants. The flood had nothing to do with clearing the gene pool. It was all about clearing the earth of sinful and wicked people. Even Sunday school children should be able to tell you that.

If the flood had anything to do with God wanting to destroy the giants because they were “contaminated seed” or to purge the gene pool then, Noah and his sons should have been destroyed also. Noah and his sons carried the gene from which giants were formed. This is obvious since giants (demonic Nephilim) are born after the flood and were present in the Land when the spies were sent to scout out the land (Numbers 13:33). These giants were descendants of Noah since all of humankind after the flood descended from Noah.

Extra-biblical evidence

These speculators quote the Book of Enoch (and other apocryphal books) in support of their ideas as though they are Scripture. Yet, Enoch and the rest of the Apocrypha are not part of the canon of Scripture for obvious reasons – they are not, and have never been regarded as inspired except by apostate churches and false teachers.

Once again they break one of the fundamentals of Evangelical and Reformed hermeneutics: We hold only to Scripture and do not add, nor subtract from it (Revelation 22:18; Deuteronomy 4:2; 12:32). It is especially reprehensible to formulate an entire doctrine on extra-biblical evidence as these people are doing.

The fact is that there is overwhelming evidence in very old writings that the Hebrew sages never regarded the “sons of God” as angels or demons. But we dare not use that as evidence lest we sink to the same level as these speculators.

Jude 6 is quoted in support of the theories. This verse says:

  • “And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day” (Jude 1:6).

Once again, there is absolutely nothing in the verse, or the context, that connects it with Genesis 6. There is nothing in the context that gives rise to understand that “not keep(ing) their proper domain” has anything to do with having relations with women. These angels sinned by overstepping their boundaries – that is evident. But what those boundaries were can be any of a hundred things. We just cannot draw connection between Genesis 6 and Jude 6, except that the chapter number is the same as the verse number!

2 Peter 2:4-5

Verse 4 is similar to Jude 6:

  • For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly.” (2 Peter 2:4-5).

To those who pluck verses out of their context there appears to be a connection between the sinning angels and the flood. But look at the context:

  • 2 Peter 2:1-3 There were, and will be, false teachers and they will “bring upon themselves swift destruction“.
  • 2 Peter 2:4 Angels sinned and God “reserved them for judgment
  • 2 Peter 2:5 The ancient world sinned and God judged them by the flood but spared Noah
  • 2 Peter 2:6-8 Sodom and Gomorrah sinned and God judged them but spared Lot
  • 2 Peter 2:9 Therefore in the future, the Lord will judge the unjust and save the godly.

The angels and the pre-flood world are simply two of four examples that Peter quotes to show that God will punish sin. The connections between the sinning angels and the flood are the same connection with false teachers and Sodom – the connections have nothing to do with gene mutation but is all about sin and the consequences thereof.

Conclusion

The purpose of this brief article is not to provide answers to all the questions that surround Genesis 6. In fact, we do not have all the answers and those who claim they have a full and detailed explanation for these verses are speculating. The point of the text in Genesis 6, and 2Peter 2 is to warn that God will not tolerate sin and will judge it.

But what we are certain of is that the theories about angels producing mutant life forms are not Biblical and that the conclusions derived from this theory are fictional, at best.

  • “…charge some that they teach no other doctrine, nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith“. (1 Timothy 1:3-4).
  • “But reject profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness.”(1 Timothy 4:7).
  • For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.” (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

[i] This is a very brief and highly sanitized summary of some very extreme and bizarre teachings. But it must also be noted that those who hold to these teachings differ greatly amongst themselves as to how far they take their conclusions.

[ii]Thomas, R. L. (1998). New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek dictionaries : Updated edition. Anaheim: Foundation Publications, Inc.

More important notes:

1)  David and Goliath – 

TheGreatKhali

Yes, there were giants but not in the sense of the pictures of Jack and the beanstalk. Goliath was anywhere between 6’9” to 10′ tall.  The oldest manuscripts – the Dead Sea Scrolls text of Samuel, the first-century historian Josephus, and the fourth century Septuagint manuscripts – all give his height as “four cubits and a span”, about six feet, nine inches tall (two meters), but later manuscripts have it as “six cubits and a span,” which would make him almost ten feet tall (three meters). The average height of the LA Lakers basketball team is 6’4″, with a few of them at 6’9″.  

Andre the Giant from the WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) stood at 7’4″ while the Great Khali currently stands at 7’1″.  [Note that DTW has never referred to the dead-sea scrolls for information, but to help explain Goliath in this instance, it is very necessary.]

Saul stood “head-and-shoulders” above the rest of the people and David (it seems) could fit into his armour. David appears extra small to Goliath because he was just a youth when he fought and killed Goliath. However when David grew up he was able to use Goliath’s sword (1 Sam 21). So as adults David and Saul were almost as big as Goliath! – now that’s a revolutionary thought!

The same goes for the Canaanites, they were giant men, but not from another world.  There is no possible way that these giants were of an extraterrestrial nature because the bible does not say so – the bible does say there were giants before the flood and their DNA must have been in Noah because the DNA is carried forward to beyond the flood. We need to remain silent on the things the Bible is silent on – we can’t go around and make wild speculations as many well known pastors are doing.  To again speculate that angels came down again to have relations with human women to produce more giants after the flood is just nonsense.

2)  Those giant skeletons they supposedly found in Greece and Middle East –

There is a good reason we haven’t heard about this epic discovery in the New York TimesScientific American, or any other legitimate publication, and that is that these photos, like the one circulating since 2004 purporting to show a giant skeleton found in the Middle East, are fakes.

As if it weren’t preposterous enough to claim that one 15-foot-tall fossilized human skeleton had turned up without media fanfare, we’re asked to believe that archaeologists recently dug up four of them in a single location (Greece). In point of fact, each of the photos appears to have been taken at a different time and place.

So far I’ve only been able to locate the original of one of them, but it serves as clear proof that Photoshopping took place. Image #4 was created by inserting an outsized human skull into a photo of a 1993 University of Chicago dinosaur dig in Niger, Africa (see the original here). If you look at a blow-up of the doctored image, the skull appears flattened and unnatural (and one of the workers actually appears to be standing on it!).

Moreover, the same cut-and-pasted skull was used to create image #2 (see side-by-side comparison). A blow-up of image #2 with brightness and contrast enhanced reveals unnaturally dark “shadows” around the skull. The skull in Image #3 is marked by incongruously bright highlights on the teeth and around the edges of the gaping temple wound. And in image #5 the shadows coming off the skeleton fall more or less toward the camera, while the worker’s shadow falls due left, suggesting that elements of two different photos were combined.

Finally, despite frequent references to “giants” in ancient mythology and English translations of the Bible, there is no generally accepted scientific or historical evidence that such beings ever actually existed (unless you consider the Weekly World News a reliable source).

See here for more giant skeletons pictures and why they are a hoax as well:  http://yowcrooks.blogspot.com/2008/12/giant-skeleton-hoax.html

3)  A greater understanding of Jude 5-10:

  • And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day” (Jude 1:6)

Jude 6 is quoted in support of their theories connecting it to Genesis 6 that angels came down and had relations with women. Once again, there is absolutely nothing in the verse, or the context, that connects it with Genesis 6. There is nothing in the context that gives rise to understand that “not keep(ing) their proper domain” has anything to do with having relations with women. These angels sinned by overstepping their boundaries – that is evident. But what those boundaries were can be any of a hundred things. We just cannot draw connection between Genesis 6 and Jude 6, except that the chapter number is the same as the verse number!

To explain Jude 5 – 8 properly, it contains a number of separate examples of God judging  sin. Just like paprables where there is a central truth and the only connection between the parables is that truth (e.g. That which was lost is found: lost coin, lost sheep, lost son).  Here there are four examples showing the same truth that God judges sin. The examples are: 1) Israel’s unbelief in not crossing into the land, 2) angels who did not keep their proper domain, 3) Sodom and Gomorrah’s sexual sin and 4) false teachers.

If there is a sexual connection between Sodom and the angels (the angels sinned in a sexual way) then there must also be a connection between Sodom and Israel and between Israel and the angels. But that is not the link here.  The link is SIN. In the case of Israel it is unbelief (Hebrews 3 & 4), in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah it is homosexuality and in the case of the angels it was rebellion when Satan was cast down from heaven and 1/3 of the angels followed.

Note that the text must be read in its context and we cannot simply make connections and draw conclusions that are not there. Now concerning the statement “who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode”. People connect that to Sodom and say that this means angels had relations with women. But we need to examine the statement carefully. The first word “proper domain” according to Thayer means:

– Original: oiketerion
– Transliteration: Arche
– Phonetic: ar-khay’
– Definition:
1.  beginning, origin
2.  the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3.  that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4.  the extremity of a thing
a.  of the corners of a sail
5.  the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
a.  of angels and demons

Note the word is “Arche” from which we get “arch-enemy”, “arch-rival” etc. This has nothing to do with sexual orientation but with primacy, authority etc. The second is “abode”. This is also a very common word: (oiketerion) which simply means house, habitation or abode.The verse then teaches that the angels did not remain in their proper authority and left their place. This could be construed to mean they had relations with the daughters of men. But it forces and construes a meaning that is NOT obvious to the sentence.

A more natural interpretation is that the angels rebelled against God’s authority at the very beginning when Satan was cast out of heaven and left their place in the order and hierarchy of God. The English Standard version (ESV) is one of the best translations available. The ESV has the verse as follows:  “And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day-

This is supported by June 9-10 which speaks about false preachers who do not know their proper place when dealing with the Devil and demons (and yes, Satan is a “dignitary”  – powerful person.

What we do not know is why some of these angels (demons) were chained in the “abyss” and others were left to roam the earth. We can only surmise that some sinned more grievously than others. But it also seems that the Lord can (and probably does) throw more of them into the abyss for whatever reason:

  • Luke 8:30-32   30 Jesus asked him, saying, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” because many demons had entered him. 31 And they begged Him that He would not command them to go out into the abyss.  32 Now a herd of many swine was feeding there on the mountain. So they begged Him that He would permit them to enter them. And He permitted them.

  Now for Jude 7:  The cities around them refers to Admah and Zeboim:  

  • Deuteronomy 29:23  “And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:”
  • Hosea 11:8  “How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah? how shall I set thee as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together.”

The words “similar manner to these” can only refer to the most recently mentioned subjects – the cities. There is no way, at all that it can refer to the Angels. No language works like that.

When we say “Tom went to church and John went to the mall and Jerry went to the beach and he got sunburned.” The “he” can only refer to the most recent subject – Jerry.

So the meaning is very clear and obvious that Sodom and Gomorrah gave themselves over to immorality and Admah and Zeboim did likewise. There is no other possibility.The problem here is that it all begins with a bad exegesis is Genesis 6. If you read Genesis 6 to mean that Angels had relations with women (and reject the words of Jesus that they cannot) then you have to find further support. Once you have jumped to that conclusion, it is easy to misread and misinterpret Jude 6 & Jude 7. But if you do not make assumptions about relations between angels and women, then there is no way you can read that into Jude. So, you have to force the meaning of Gen 6 and then you have to force the meaning of Jude 6 to come to a conclusion.

source:  http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/09/06/the-truth-about-the-sons-of-god-the-daughters-of-men-and-the-nephilim/

Alien Encounter -Chuck Missler

Some false teaching by Chuck Missler.

‘And Also After That’:

The Return of the Nephilim?

by Chuck Missler – September 1997 Personal Update NewsJournal.

In the last article, “Mischievous Angels or Sethites?” we explored the importance of understanding Genesis 6. The straightforward presentation of the text seems to clearly portray a strange union of fallen angels with women to produce a hybrid race called the “Nephilim,” or fallen ones.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW NOTE:  The straightforward presentation of the text clearly states that it was the marriages of the seed of godly Seth with the daughters of ungodly Cain. Not angels with women.]

We enumerated the reasons we accept the “angel” view and why the liberal “Sethite” view is inadequate.

[DTW note:  Oh so you do not accept the Sethite view simply because then you can’t make up a whole new false doctrine.]

Far beyond simply a misunderstanding of the forthright presentation of the text, the “Sethite” view also obscures apprehension of the prophetic Scriptures.

Post-Flood Occurrences

Regarding the Nephilim, Genesis 6:4 also includes the haunting phrase, “…and also after that….” Apparently these strange events were not confined just to the period before the Flood.  [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  Nothing haunting about it, the fact is people turned wickedly evil again after the flood.]

We find that there seems to be some recurrence of those things which resulted in unusual “giants” appearing in subsequent periods later in the Old Testament narrative, specifically the giant-races of Canaan.    [Emphasis added]

There were a number of tribes such as the Rephaim, the Emim, the Horim, and Zamsummim, that were giants.1 The kingdom of Og, the King of Bashan, was the “land of the giants.”2 Later, we also find Arba,3 Anak, and his seven sons (the “Anakim”) also as giants, along with the famed Goliath4 and his four brothers.5    

[DTW note:  Unusual giants, yes, but not demonic Nephilim.  None of the verses state that the tribes of Rephaim, Emim, Horim and Zamsummin were demonic Nephilim.  King Og was a giant, Arba was a giant, Anak and his seven sons were also Giants and so was Goliath and his 4 brothers.  What is a giant?  A very big person.  Not a demonic offspring.  Moses was big enough himself that he could smite them and cast giants out of their own land.  (Joshua 13:12)  “All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out.”]

When God had revealed to Abraham that the land of Canaan was to be given to him, Satan had over 400 years to plant his “mine field” of Nephilim!6

[DTW note:  Again he is surmising and reading into the scripture what is NOT THERE.

  • Genesis 15:13;  13  And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years

All this means is that the Israelites are going a land that belongs to them, but they will for 400 hundred years have to serve the current inhabitants of the land.  So they will be a stranger in their own land.  No where does it say anything about Nephilim.]

When Moses sent his twelve spies to reconnoiter the Land of Canaan, they came back with the report of giants in the land.7 (The term used was Nephilim.) Their fear of those terrifying creatures resulted in their being relegated to wandering in the wilderness for 38 years.

[DTW note:   No the term Nephilim was NOT USED.  My goodness.  Lets have a look at the verse.

Below we are looking at the KJV 1611 translation and not some other funky version like Chuck Misslers Blue letter bible which puts in words that should not be there.

  • Numbers 13:33  “And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”

The name Anak is derived from the son of Arba who was a great man among the Arabians (Jos 15:14) who possibly got his title because he used to wear a chain or splendid collar around his neck.    The word “giant” here in the above scripture actually refers to STATURE ( See Genesis 6:4).  The Anakims were more than likely a very distinguished family, or a chosen group of warriors, selected for their extraordinary size.

When the Israelites came back to report to Moses they exaggerated the physical strength of the Canaanites.  “We were in our own sight as grasshoppers” is based on ‘strong Orientalism’, meaning this is how they would described the situation in their manner, their mannerism.]

When Joshua and the nation Israel later entered the land of Canaan, they were instructed to wipe out every man, woman and child of certain tribes.8 That strikes us as disturbingly severe. It would seem that in the Land of Canaan, there again was a “gene pool problem.”   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  No, it’s not a ‘gene pool problem’, but a ‘wickedness of mankind problem‘.  The Canaanites were idolaters of the worst kind, enslaved to the most horrible sins.  God had enough; that the righteous judgment of God might sweep them away by the sword, this included famines and pestilences. There was however mercy shown, that while judgment was being employed by sword as punishment against one place, time was afforded for others at other places to repent.  Do you think God would offer demonic offspring time to repent? A gene-pool that has ‘lost it’s soul‘ through demonic intercourse time to repent?   No.  Because this gene pool/demonic offspring story is a load of nonsense. ]

These Rephaim, Nephilim, and others seem to have been established as an advance guard to obstruct Israel’s possession of the Promised Land. Was this also a stratagem of Satan?   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  No Chuck Missler, you have an active imagination.  No demonic beings, no obstruction, just wicked people that had the opportunity to repent, other wise God would smite them down with the sword, which he did because of their wicked ways.]

The Days of Noah

Perhaps the most direct prophetic reference involving these things was the peculiar warning of our Lord Jesus Himself:  And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.   [Emphasis added]

Luke 17:26

What does that mean? He also warned:

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.    [Emphasis added]

Luke 21:25,26 (emphasis added)

(The late Walter Martin loved to include a “flying saucer” gesture with his hand when quoting this verse!)

Is it possible that the UFOs – and their occupants – are part of an end-time scenario?

[DTW note:  Lets have a look at that verse properly shall we.

  • Luke 21:25-26 – Amplified Bible (AMP)  25 And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth [there will be] distress (trouble and anguish) of nations in bewilderment and perplexity without resources, left wanting, embarrassed, in doubt, not knowing which way to turn] at the roaring (the echo) of the tossing of the sea,   26 Men swooning away or expiring with fear and dread and apprehension and expectation of the things that are coming on the world; for the [very] powers of the heavens will be shaken and caused to totter.

Chuck Missler mis-reads the verse.  If we look at the Amplified bible it helps us explain it better. Men are fearful and apprehensive and their expectation is dread because they do not know what kinds of things going to come onto the world.  And ‘things’ in this verse is not ‘aliens or demons’.  There is a semicolon in the verse, and after this semicolon it tells us these things are.  The powers of the heavens will be shaken and caused to totter.]

The Miry Clay of Daniel 2

The famous dream of Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel Chapter 2 appears to lay out all of Gentile history until God ultimately intervenes and sets up His own kingdom.

The various metals which make up the image in the dream are well known to serious students of prophecy.9> Even our common expression, “the idol has feet of clay,” comes to us from this classic passage.

But what is represented by the “miry clay” in this image? It seems to be strangely mixed-but not completely-with the iron in the dream. The term “miry clay” refers to clay made from dust,10 a Biblical idiom which suggests death.11 )

When Daniel interprets this for us he makes an especially provocative allusion in verse 43:

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.    [Emphasis added]

Daniel 2:43

As he switches to a personal pronoun, they, “shall mingle themselves with the seed of men…”  This is extremely suggestive when viewed in light of the warning of our Lord in Luke 17:26, ostensibly directing us to look more closely at Genesis 6.

Just what (or who) are “mingling with the seed of men?” These would seem to refer to some beings who are not the seed of men themselves!

Could this be a hint of a return to the mischief of Genesis 6? It staggers the mind to consider the potential significance of Daniel’s passage and its implications for the future global governance.

Are these “aliens” so prolific that they constitute a political constituency?

Will there be UFO incidents as part of a carefully orchestrated program to lead us toward a political agenda? Or has it started already? Are the UFOs, and the increasingly widespread abductions, part of the preparations for this scenario?

[DTW note:  No Mr Missler.  Again you twist scripture to suit your own purposes.  Let’s look at this verse properly shall we…

  • Daniel 2:43  Amplified Bible (AMP)  43 And as you saw the iron mixed with miry and earthen clay, so they shall mingle themselves in the seed of men [in marriage bonds]; but they will not hold together [for two such elements or ideologies can never harmonize], even as iron does not mingle itself with clay.

The last re-establishment of the Roman Empire is described as iron mixed with miry clay, which is nothing but brittle pottery.  This speaks of the attempted UNION between imperialism and democracy.  In the end this Roman Empire so easily shattered when Jesus Christ returns.]

UFO Abductions?

There seems to be a growing concern within the psychiatric community from the strange (and far too frequent) reports from people who claim to have been “abducted” by the occupants of UFOs. These reports are too bizarre to accept, and yet too frequent-and consistent-to ignore. What is particularly disturbing is the estimate from some national polls that as much as 3% of the population may be involved!

Perhaps the most well-known researcher in this area is Dr. John E. Mack, who is professor of psychiatry at The Cambridge Hospital, Harvard Medical School. A contributor to over 150 articles in professional (peer-reviewed) journals and a former Pulitzer Prize winner, he certainly appears to have impressive credentials.

He has been involved in almost a hundred of these cases personally, and has shocked the professional community by declaring that he believes these beings may be real and that they appear to have an agenda to develop a hybrid race!12

At a professional conference on abductions at M.I.T., Dr. Mack asked the provocative question, “If what these abductees are saying is happening to them isn’t happening, then what is?”13

Could all this involve a return to the strange events of “the Days of Noah?”

[DTW note:  Demons exist and people who have had these abduction experiences have experienced, just that, an altered state of consciousness where they have come face to face with demonic entities who create a reality for them that seems so real.  The exact same can be said of someone who experiences a ‘trip to heaven’, they see, touch, taste and smell ‘heaven or hell’ but it’s not real.]

Can A Christian Be “Abducted?”

In our publication, The Return of the Nephilim, I ventured the opinion, based on demonology considerations, that a Christian cannot be abducted. In response, I have received several letters of rebuttal, and also an interesting phone call from a senior executive at Universal Studios who apparently has extensive background in this area.

He indicated that he had participated with Dr. John Mack in some of his sessions, as well as with other researchers, and declared that I was wrong. He suggested that I investigate the Andreasson affair.

The Andreasson case involved a spirit-filled Christian; however, the reports indicate that she accepted an invitation to participate.14 It still appears to me that a Christian cannot be abducted unwillingly.

This opens up the entire subject of demonology and is beyond our scope here. (Our book does include a “Checklist for Potential Abductees” for those who are concerned with this issue.)   [Emphasis added]

[DTW note:  NEVER.  A genuine Born Again Christian will NEVER be abducted, EVER.  Chuck Missler’s theology leaves little to be desired as he is a Dominionist, so I would not for one second believe him when he says the person in The Andreasson case was a genuine believer.]

Dr. Mark Eastman and I have just published a new book, “Alien Encounters.”

Which attempts to explore the Biblical implications of the increasing reports of UFOs and their occupants, and their potential prophetic significance.

It will prove to be the most controversial thing we have done and we truly request your prayers!  [Emphasis added]

source: http://www.khouse.org/articles/1997/22/


Jacob Prasch does not like to be questioned and he attacks in the most brutal of manner.  Where as I question a person’s doctrine, Jacob Prasch and those at Moriel Ministries (who support him) go for the jugular vein, attack you personally and threaten you.

Please read the following articles where I question Preasch doctrine, please read the comments BY Jacob Pracsh himself:  Jacob Prasch – Twisting Scripture the Midrash Way,  Jacob Prasch the Railer,  Moriel Ministries and MIDRASHJacob Prasch – But By The Grace of God [those Calvinists] . . . Tell The Truth!


NOTES

  1.  Genesis 14:5; 15:20; Deuteronomy 2:10-12, 22.
  2. Deuteronomy 3:11, 13; Joshua 12:4;13:12.
  3. Joshua 14:15; 15:13; 21:11.
  4. 1 Samuel 17:4ff.
  5. 2 Samuel 21:16-22.
  6. Genesis 15:13-21.
  7. Numbers 13:33.
  8. 8. Joshua 6:21; 9:24; 10:28, 39; 11:24; Deut 2:34; 7:2, 3; 20:16-17; et al. Cf. 1 Sam 15:3, 8, 18, 19; Ps 137:8, 9.
  9. See our briefing package Iron Mixed With Clay (out of print – see An Empire Reborn?)for a complete discussion.
  10. Mire [Aramaic in the text] is from a root meaning to be swept away; thus, dust, dirt.
  11. Rephaim (giants) also translated “dead”: Ps 88:10; Prov 2:18; 9:18; 21:16; Isa 14:9; 26:14.
  12. John E. Mack, Abduction: Human Encounters with Aliens, Ballantine Books, NY, 1994, p.411.
  13. C.D.B. Bryan, Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind: Alien Abduction, UFOs, and the Conference at M.I.T., Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1995, p.4.
  14. Jim Marrs, Alien Agenda, HarperCollins Publishers, New York, p.213-218.



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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

ET,

I have one very simple question to ask you. Here goes.

What constitutes a marriage? What does it involve other than the fact that it must be a male and a female?

Ferg

We may read different books and articles on different subjects and topics. Most of whom will try to prove that their’s is right. Well it’s nothing new. We must be wise like the BEREANS (Acts 17)

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Reading books is OK but you must always test what the author/s say and write against the Word of God. The Word of God is supposed to be your yardstick to determine truth and not the books written by men. Why? Here’s the answer.

All scripture [and not all books written by men] is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (2 Ti 3:16).

YOu haven’t told us whether you believe in the Nephilim the way Jacob Prasch and Chuck Missler do.

Cindy M.

I am so frustrated with Christians having their ears tickled, but know nothing of Scripture, too lazy to read Scripture, and have no Hebrew/Greek understanding. They do not test the spirits, they follow after false prophets. When they teach this kind of ‘doctrine’ they bring ridicule on themselves, people listening to this teaching woven in with the message of salvation wander off, thinking all Christians are mad, or stupid.

Christians are the laziest of people, willing to listen to any teaching, thinking it’s from the Bible. Totally illiterate. People also like Trey Smith are just…plain…crazy. Everything these folks teach/preach takes away from the message of salvation. People even believe it’s taught in the Bible because Jesus said ‘as in the days of Noah …’

Thank you for this. I appreciate your time on debunking this stupid myth.

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Hi Cindy M. Thankyou for your comment.

You may be interested to know that I am busy writing another article (in the form of a slideshow) on the Nephilim which I hope to post in this week. It would be the first time, as far as I know, that an article will appear on this site in a slideshow format.

Greetings
Tom

Cindy Felice

Hi just wondering if when Jesus specifies it is the Angels in HEAVEN that don’t marry, etc may this preclude the fallen angels. So many wwonderful saints, Henry Ironsides, George Mac Donald etc. believed The sons of God were fallen angels. Great saints on both sides of the issue and none of these saints were “stupid” or deserve name calling. We’ll see shortly, yes. God bless , Cindy F

Cindy Felice

I wasn’t implying DtW was name calling but the comments were pretty carnal. I confess I don’t fully understand how it all happened, but I can’t understand the Trinity or other great Bible doctrines in my mortal mind either. How do angels assume human bodies that we can entertain them unawares. We see through the glass darkly, yes. Just saying There are great men of God on both sides of this issue and no I’ve never read the book of Enoch . Have looked at Josephes ( not the best speller) and Macabees to shed some light on history. Never for doctrine. Blessings Cindy F

Tom (Discerning the World)

Cindy Felice

I am so happy to meet you. You are the first person I have ever come across who is able to discern the difference between a carnal and a spiritual comment. How about you writing one for us so that we may know what a “spiritual comment” really looks like.

And while you are at it, please tell us what is so dark about this comment that you cannot understand it.

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. (Mat 22:29-30)

Have you noticed that Jesus spoke of the power of God and not the power of holy angels, fallen angels, demons or the devil? Surely you must know that God alone is able to create something out of nothing and therefore He alone is able to change spiritual beings into mortal human beings who are able to get married, have sex and produce children, if, of course, it were true that the fallen angels suddenly became like human beings. Or did the fallen angels just assume human bodies of their own accord, making them equal to God who alone is able to create things? In that case, you are suggesting that God is not the only true God of the Bible but that there are also other gods who are equally adept to create things. Or do you think God was the One who suddenly decided to create fallen angels with human bodies so that they may commit their horrendous sin of marrying and making little babies the size of the Empire State building? In that case, you will be blaspheming the Holy Spirit by suggesting that God is the author of all sin. I’m NOT saying you have committed the unpardonable sin. I’m saying that one who suggests that God is the author of sin is dangerously close to it.

Another thing! To say that there are great men of God on both sides of the issue is very dangerous. You cannot have men of God on both sides of the issue. If that had been so, you may as well refer to some of the worst heretical groups in existence and say that they too have men of God on their side. Either the one is telling the truth and the other a lie. Men of God are supposed to speak the truth, not lies. Where do lies come from, Cindy? Well, I’m sure you know that God the Creator of all things said,

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. (Joh 8:44-45)

Cindy Felice

Hi Deborah and Tom. Thank you for taking the time to respond. I was saved at age 27 and will turn 66 this month. I’ve been so blessed to be able to study His infallible revelation for nearly 40 years. By nature I’m very shy but I believe the Lord gifted me with teaching and have been able to teach in two Christian schools. He has also allowed me to teach numerous women and Childrens ministries. (Don’t think ever taught on Gen 6) I realize no commentator is infallable but have enjoyed some like J Vernon MaGee over the years. He believes as you do. He said in his commentary on Gen 6 that if you believe the Sons of God are fallen angels you are in good company, but if you want to be right believe as I do. Great sense of humor :) One of his mentors that he well respected, Henry Ironsides believes the sons of God are fallen angels.
Both of my children nearly lost their lives serving their country. My husband of 45 years is dying of stage 4 cancer. I really don’t know how people get through the trials of life in this fallen world without the blessed hope and fellowship with our LORD.
I find it interesting that the deranged men of Sodoom wanted to have relations with the 2 angels that spent the night with Lot.
My family was able to visit my children when they were serving in Germany. My dad and husband had to stoop way down to get in the doorways of the older buildings. They told us humans have gotten a lot bigger overall in the last few hundred years. I think the evil deeds of Genesis could of happened over hundreds of years as well. The results would be a lot more dramatic if genetic manipulation was involved.
Also, if Seths line stayed Godly why would they be destroyed by the flood. I do agree we must all keep our armour on in these last days where deception abounds. May the Holy Spirit guide us into His truth, Blessings Cindy Felice

Tom (Discerning the World)

Cindy Felice,

I can see you really want to believe as YOU do and NOT as the Bible teaches. I can also see it matters very little how much I tell you that GOD alone has the awesome power to create things and NOT angels, (either holy or fallen) until the cows come home, and yet you still won’t believe. And now you want to validate the abominable doctrine of fallen angels having married earthly women with the equally abominable genetic manipulation nonsense. And of course, you would find it interesting that the sodomites in Sodom wanted to have sex with two angels as if that gives you absolute proof that humans and angels can have relations. I would like to suggest that you read your Bible properly before you come to any conclusions with regard to the Nephilim.

And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant’s house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. And he pressed upon them greatly, and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house, and he made them a feast and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat. But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came into thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.(Gen 19:1-5)

Note the words ” angels,” and the two referrals to “men.” The men (‘ĕnôsh) of Sodom did not ask Lot where the angels were who entered his home but “Where are the MEN . . .” (‘îysh). “‘Îysh” is a contracted and more dignified form of “‘ĕnôsh” but nevertheless it does not in the slightest denote angels but MEN. What does that mean? It means that the angels so perfectly matched the outward appearance of a mortal man that the homosexuals in Sodom failed to perceive them as angels. They thought they were men like them.

Who says Seth’s lineage were godly when the Flood came?

Femi Fenojo

I myself have exegetical reservation about the Nephilim. However, your opening sentence to this article was a turn off. You said concerning Jacob Prasch “In practically every video of Jacob Prasch’ and in practically every book he writes the chances of Prasch mentioning the disturbing false teaching of the ‘demonic’ Nephilim is almost certain.” I have listen to Jacob Prasch and Chuck Missler extensively. I do not always agree with them (and by the way they both encourage you to search the scripture yourself, and to disagree with them on exegetical ground.) Your opening assertion is quite bogus and false. Thank you

LeonP

The angels IN HEAVEN are not given in marriage, fair enough.
The angels who visited Lot, however ( and Abraham with the Lord ), were in human form and had a meal
Gen 18:8 “…and they did eat..”….before going on to Sodom.
They are referred to as men, and had the appearance of men….to Lot, and to those reprobates in Sodom.

Therefore, our experience in Scripture regarding angels is not limited to the reference in Mark 12:25 and equivalent in Matthew.
Instead, let’s limit what we understand by what we read in these references:
….the angels IN HEAVEN, it is said…
Unlike those who were seen in Sodom, and in Luke 24:4….” two men in shining garments….”

Therefore, whether or not one believes that the “sons of God” were fallen angels, one cannot use the text of Mark 12:25 to argue against the Nephilim hypothesis.
Justsaying

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Hi LeonP

First of all, the angels who appeared to Lot were, in fact, angels from heaven (and therefore Mark 12:25 may be applied to them) who, as you admitted, appeared with Jesus Christ (also in human form) to Abraham in the plains of Mamre (Genesis 18). You seem to overlook your own admittance that they appeared in the form of men and had the appearance of men. It clearly proves that they were not in essence men who had bodies of flesh and blood like us. They merely had the appearance of men. I am sure Jesus Christ, who is God and equal with the Father and the Holy Ghost in all their characteristics, is able to transform invisible beings into visible beings who look like men but are not made of flesh and blood like us so that they may marry and have sex with women. Do you agree? If you don’t you will be downgrading Jesus to something lesser than God, and you wouldn’t want to do that, now would you?

Moreover, the notion that the angels who appeared to Lot and Abraham were able to marry and have sex with women in their human form is a downright denial of the unique incarnation of Jesus Christ. You know as well as I do that when a man and a woman marry they become one flesh. Did you notice that? – ONE FLESH! It means that both man and woman must be made of FLESH and not something that looks like or has the appearance of FLESH. That is precisely why Jesus said that the angels in heaven neither marry nor are given in marriage because their substance (make-up) is not flesh, although they are able to appear in the form of flesh (man), by the magnanimous creative powers of Jesus Christ, unless He is not God and unable to do something like that.

I suggest that next time when you pray you say to Jesus, “Jesus, you know, your statement in Mark 12:25 is true but not altogether the truth. Therefore, our experience in Scripture regarding angels is not limited to the reference in Mark 12:25 and equivalent in Matthew. Instead, let’s limit what we understand by what we read in other references. Sorry Jesus, but that’s how I understand your truth. It is only half a truth. AMEN!”

LeonP

Tom,
The snarky comment in your last paragraph is unnecessary, and unbecoming, brother to brother.

Firstly, Angels IN HEAVEN, is what our Lord Jesus said.I repeat…IN.
Secondly, as it pertains to bodily function, the Angels who visited Abraham with the Lord, ATE A MEAL.

As to your reference to FLESH…have you heard the expression STRANGE FLESH.

Have you not read Hebrews 13:2…..

The Incarnation of the Lord in the FLESH was UNIQUE in that he was BORN by a woman, a Virgin, and conceived by the Holy Spirit.
Fully God, and Fully Man.
Before that, there are various other Theophanies, including the one referrred to in Genesis 18.

LeonP

Hi Deborah,

I agree with you that the STRANGE FLESH reference is not conclusively “angelic” flesh…..i should not have included that.
It is probably a lot more likely that is merely “forbidden” flesh. Granted.

My reference to the Unique Incarnation of our Lord ( which was something raised by Thomas, i am merely answering it ), was to demonstrate the difference between OT theophanies, and Angelic beings in human form.
One cannot imply that merely because one MAY hold to an opinion that some angels referenced in the Scriptures, had human form which allowed them to eat a meal, as clearly demonstrated in Genesis 18:8, that this in some way means that the Unique Incarnation of our Lord, is demeaned or devalued in any way.
I thought that i would just clarify that.

I hold to Orthodoxy when it comes to matters of the Canon, just to be clear.
Apocryphal works are just that…Apocrypha.
No, i do not believe in the Serpent Seed teachings.

My initial point was just one of the use of the Mark 12:25 reference to negate the Nephilim teaching that so many believe that Genesis 6 refers to.
Your view may be a valid one, and may even be the correct one, but using the Mark 12:25 reference in support of it, just weakens it, in my opinion. That’s all.

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

LeonP

Why are you so obstinate to believe what Jesus says in Mark 12:25? I am not denying the theophanies in the Old Testament. I am merely trying to open your eyes to the fact that it is absolutely necessary to believe every word Jesus said. He did not say the angels in heaven, when they appear in human form, are unable to eat. He said they do not marry and are not given in marriage. Full stop. Why do you capitalize “IN HEAVEN?’ Are you suggesting that demons (fallen angels) are able to marry earthly women, have sex with them and spawn little kiddies (oh sorry, I meant to say grotesque giants) just because they are not ANGELS IN HEAVEN? If so, then you are degrading and demeaning the incarnation of Jesus Christ. You say:

The Incarnation of the Lord in the FLESH was UNIQUE in that he was BORN by a woman, a Virgin, and conceived by the Holy Spirit.
Fully God, and Fully Man.
Before that, there are various other Theophanies, including the one referrred to in Genesis 18.

Are you saying that the theophanies in the Old Testament differ from Jesus’ incarnation only in one sense, and that is that his incarnation was unique in that He was born of a woman, a virgin? Again, I ask you, were these theophanies made of flesh, blood and bone?

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

You accuse me of being snarky but you have no misgivings about your suggestions that Jesus lied in Mark 12:25?

LeonP

Tom,
Read Mark like this:
KJV: example 1
Mar 12:25  For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
The syntax is= angels which are in Heaven
YLT: example 2
Mar 12:25  for when they may rise out of the dead, they neither marry nor are they given in marriage, but are as messengers who are in the heavens.
Syntax is = Angels who are in the Heavens.
NIV: example 3
Mark 12:25
25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
2 possible readings for NIV
a) angels in Heaven ( as in KJV and YLT )
b) the dead who have risen, in heaven

If you go to the Greek text, you will see that the KJV, and the YLT are correct.
It refers to the angels that the risen dead are being compared to, as those ( angels ) in heaven.
If you accept that the NIV has good grammar, and the translators did not omit a comma, then the NIV also agrees with the KJV.

Why then, is the comparison made to Angels in Heaven?
Why not just say “like the Angels”, and leave it at that?
Because Scripture clearly teaches that angels have not only been in Heaven, but also on earth, in the form of MEN.
Men who even ATE A MEAL.

So no, Tom, Jesus did not lie.
Jesus, as usual, is being absolutely specific and correct. ( it seems unnecessary that i should say so, but since you insist on repeating the accusation against me, i am clarifying ).

Tom (Discerning the World)

LeonP

So what you are saying that fallen angels [and not the ANGELS IN HEAVEN] are once again going to marry earthly women, have sex with them and spawn giants 400 feet in height? Please clarify.

As you know, the unbelievers are also going to be raised from the dead. Will they also be like the angels in heaven and not be given in marriage?

You are nitpicking.

hōs
hoce
Probably adverb of compound from G3739; which how, that is, in that manner (very variously used as shown): – about, after (that), (according) as (it had been, it were), as soon (as), even as (like), for, how (greatly), like (as, unto), since, so (that), that, to wit, unto, when ([-soever]), while, X with all speed.

LeonP

Tom,
We are called to “nitpick”.
“Rightfully dividing the Word of Truth”.

You’re putting words into my mouth.
Did i not say i do not believe in either Serpent Seed or Nephilim teaching?
There is simply not enough Scriptural support for either.

1. Angels in Heaven are not given in marriage
2. believers raised from the dead will be as the Angels in 1.
That is what the text says. EOS.

Ian

Deborah
whle you answer according to your understanding of Scripture, your interpretation also raises other questions.
like:
If ‘sons of God’ refers to men who have fallen from faith:
1.Why would they still be spoken of as ‘sons of God’?
2. Who are the ‘daughters of men'”?
3. If you say daughters of Cain’s line, then – What do you call the dauhters of Seth’s lineage?
4. Why then is the term ‘sons of God not used to describe Abraham – the friend of God? Moses the man of God who spoke with God face to face? David, the man after God’s own heart?
5. Why is the term ‘daughters of men’ not used for the Canaanites and Amorites and all the other ites in the OT?

By the way…I don’t follow John Calvin…his ideas were in some respects not much better than those you single out here – he was not the perfect man – who is?
“[From the Foreword to “Calvin’s Institutes, A New Compend,” page 10, Hugh T. Kerr, editor (1989)]. In a five-year period, fifty-eight people were executed and seventy-six were banished because of Calvin’s straightforward nature….. He had written to a friend that if Servetus ever came to Geneva, “I will never let him depart alive, if I have any authority.” [William R. Estep, “Renaissance and Reformation”; pages 221-248 deal with Calvin’s contribution to the Protestant Reformation.]”

peace to all those in Christ Jesus
….something that JP or CM never did.

Tom (Discerning the World)

Sorry to jump in here uninvited.

Ian, what do you mean by “Why would they (those who have fallen from faith) still be spoken of as sons of God?” Where does it say unbelievers are sons of God? You must remember one thing, the terms “son” and “sons” in the spiritual sense of the word does not portray the difference between male and female entities, such as “sons and daughters.” The terms “son” and “sons” are generic terms to portray the most intimate relationship between God and his saved creatures. In that way females are also called “sons of God.” Proof of this is in Romans 8:14, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.” Are only men led by the Spirit of God? My wife and Deborah are led by the Spirit of God. Are they not also the “sons of God?” We must always discern spiritual things spiritually and not carnally. Failing to do that leads to all kinds of horrendous deceptions. Please bear that in mind when you read God’s Word.

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