The DIFFERENCE Between Assurance of Salvation and CALVINISM’S Perseverance of the Saints

Assurance of Salvation

The DIFFERENCE Between Assurance of Salvation (Once Saved, Always Saved) and CALVINISM’S Perseverance of the Saints (Once CHOSEN, Always CHOSEN)

There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between Calvinism’s version of ‘once saved, always saved’ and the BIBLICAL version of Assurance of Salvation.

You see, Calvinists believe you are CHOSEN by God before you are born, therefore you are actually ‘ONCE CHOSEN, ALWAYS CHOSEN’.  If you are Elect, you can’t become un-elect!   The Biblical version is WE HAVE FREE WILL, when you come to accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, you are REGENERATED;  the Holy Spirit comes to abide in you and HE SEALS YOU, and your name is written in to the book of Life.

Philippians 4:3    “Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.”

Revelation 3:5 also makes is clear that once a name is written in the book of life, Jesus PROMISES that He will never blot it out.

Revelation 3:5    “The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.”

Who are those who have conquered? Well these are those who have overcome the trials of earthly life and are genuinely saved.   In Revelation, Jesus was speaking to all the Churches, and He promises to acknowledge us before His Own Father and the angels, those whose names are written in the book of life.   Unfortunately (Revelations 20:15) reveals the fate of those whose names that are NOT written in the book of life and they go to the lake of fire

Revelation 20:15    And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”

In Revelation 13:8 and Revelation  21:27, we find the references to the “Lamb’s book of life”,  in which are also names of all those who have been washed by the blood of the Lamb, Jesus Christ. The Lamb who has been “slain from the creation of the world” has a book in which are written all those who have been redeemed by His sacrifice. They are the ones who will enter the Holy City, the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:10) and who will live forever in heaven with God. Since the book of life is that which records all who have eternal life through the Lamb, it’s clear that the book of life and the Lamb’s book of life are one and the same.

When the Holy Spirit comes to abide in us, he stays there foreverHe does not come and go and come and go each time you fall into some kind of sin.

John 14:16   “And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever. “

The fact that the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer is also seen in (Ephesians 1:13-14) where believers are said to be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 1:13-14    “13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”   

The envision of being sealed with the Spirit is one of ownership and possession. God has promised eternal life to all who are genuinely born again, and as a guarantee that He will keep His promise, He has sent the Holy Spirit to abide in the believer until the day of redemption. Kind of like making a down payment/deposit on a house or a car, God has provided all believers with a DEPOSIT on their future relationship with Him by sending the Holy Spirit to abide in them. The fact that all believers are sealed with the Spirit is also seen in (2 Corinthians 1:22 and Ephesians 4:30).

2 Corinthians 1:22   Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.”   

Ephesians 4:30  “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

NOW LOOK AT THIS – DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OLD COVENANT AND NEW COVENANT:

Now, BEFORE Jesus’ death, resurrection, and ascension into heaven, before the NEW COVENANT, the Holy Spirit had a “come and go” relationship with people.  The Holy Spirit indwelt King Saul, but then He departed from him:

1 Samuel 16:14  “But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.”

Here (1 Samuel 16:13) we read that the Holy Spirit came upon David.  But after his adultery with Bathsheba, David feared that the Holy Spirit would be taken from him.

Psalm 51:11   “Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.”

In (Exodus 31:2-5) we read that the the Holy Spirit filled Bezaleel to enable him to produce the items needed for the tabernacle, but this is not described as a permanent relationship.

The Holy Spirit filled Elizabeth when she heard about Mary’s conception and her baby leaped in her womb.

Luke 1:41   “And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost

But all of this changed beginning on the day of Pentecost, (Acts 2) the Holy Spirit began permanently indwelling believers.  Pentecost was the commissioning of the Christian church and the fulfillment of God’s promise to always be with us and never forsake us.

Now, understand this, while the Holy Spirit will never leave a GENUINE believer, it is possible for our sin to “quench the Holy Spirit” or “grieve the Holy Spirit”

Quenching the Holy Spirit:  1 Thessalonians 5:19   “Quench not the Spirit.”

Grieving the Holy Spirit:   Ephesians 4:30   “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

Sin ALWAYS has consequences in our relationship with Jesus. While our relationship with God is SECURE in Jesus Christ, UNCONFESSED SIN sin in our lives WILL hinder our relationship with God and it will quench the Holy Spirit’s working in our lives. That is why it is so important to ask Jesus for forgiveness of our sins because God is “faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9).   So, while the Holy Spirit will never leave us, the reward and joy of His presence in our lives will feel far away, because sin drives a wedge between us and God and we are effectively distancing ourselves from Jesus.

As Christians SEALED by the Holy Spirit you will still sin, but if you are genuinely born again, the Holy Spirit will CHASTISE you every time you sin and you will sooner than later repent of your sins.  But there are people who PROFESS to be Christian and they do not have the Holy Spirit in then.  These are people who can speak Jesus’ name, they go to church, even have big ministries teaching people the bible and they sound so intelligent, but they have not been REGENERATEDbecause they refuse to give up their sinful ways, they refuse to pick up their cross and follow Jesus.

Luke 14:27   “Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.”

They think they can have it both ways.

2 Timothy 3:5   They will maintain the outward appearance of religion but will have repudiated its powerSo avoid people like these.

They have bad fruit, they follow doctrines of demons, and they mingle with evil people and very easily compromise the Word of God for the sake of ‘unity’.

Satan always does twist scripture for his own advantage and tell people that at an alter call if they just pray the sinners pray they will be saved and never lose it, but God knows who is GENUINELY saved and who isn’t.  We CAN’T fool Him.  People CAN FOOL EACH OTHER into believing they are real Christians, when in fact they are not.  And how do we tell if they are not, well by the things they do and say (the fruit of the spirit)  – the words the speak/preach. But even then, sometimes we meet some ‘great pretenders’ some brilliant con-artists and it takes a long time to figure them out.

See this article as well:  Eternal Security – Genuinely Saved, Always Saved!

Please share:

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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20 Comment authors
Deborah (Discerning the World)hemrajWayne JackmichaelJohn Chingford Recent comment authors
Redeemed
Guest
Redeemed

Deborah, someone asked that you give some solid doctrinal truth and you have certainly delivered BIG TIME.

It seems that so many believers are confused about this point and say that the only thing they agree with in Calvinist/Reformed doctrine is the “P” in TULIP, “Perseverance of the Saints”. Thank the LORD you have exposed this destructive lie for what it is!

Truthful Conversation
Guest
Truthful Conversation

GRRRREATT ARTICLE Debs!! Very well written and simple enough for all to understand (including me).. : ) After reading this, no-one can say that they cannot see the difference between Calvinism and what the bible says about our salvation.

Andy
Guest
Andy

Once saved always saved is part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ (John 3:16). Calvinism is against the Gospel of Jesus Christ, since calvinism seeks to run right around faith in Jesus for salvation, and instead, moves to you working to “prove” you are part of the “elect”. That is not the Gospel. So the two are indeed totally different.

Carolyn
Guest
Carolyn

Last post on this subject. Not wishing to get into a debate I will simply refer to this article by Sandy Simpson. This is what I believe to be a balanced approach to the subject and I would be in agreement with his thoughts:
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/osas2.html

As you said, Debs, everyone has to read the Scripture for themselves and draw their own conclusions. And sometimes it takes some time to see things from a different perspective. What we have always believed or been taught is not necessarily right. All we can ask for is that people ask the Holy Spirit for his wisdom.

Abe
Guest
Abe

Calvinism and arminianism are both false. They both point you to works for salvation.

Jesus points us to faith alone in Him for salvation (John 3:16, Romans 4:5).

Redeemed
Guest
Redeemed

Dear sister Carolyn,

The article to which you refer begins with this:

It has become my considered opinion that part of the delusion of the Third Wave is facilitated, not only by certain doctrines in Arminianism and semi-Pelagianism, but also by certain doctrines of Calvinism (Once Saved Always Saved). Both doctrinal systems have fatal flaws.

Right off the bat he indicates that he does not understand the difference between eternal security of the believer and the Calvinist doctrine of Once Chosen, Always Chosen.

Also, please understand that no one here has EVER promoted Arminian doctrine.
The author of the article you cite is comparing one false doctrine against another. He means well but is totally missing the salient point and not seeing for forest for the trees.

We have to shine the light of truth of the Bible to expose false doctrine, not compare one false doctrine to another and point out partial truths in each one!

Does this make sense to you? This is one reason why the clear truth presented in Deborah’s article is so needed in the Church today to counter the mixture of truth and error that causes confusion.

Carolyn
Guest
Carolyn

Au contraire, Debs. I have done my own study. You weren’t there.

We cannot leave out the whole counsel of God for our own preferences of doctrine. Our own preferences can be just that. We all have blind spots.

If you read the last part of the “Oversimplification of the Facts”, just before the Summary in the Simspon’s article, there are Scriptures that agree with walking away from our faith. If you didn’t have faith, how could it be shipwrecked or how could we turn away from it? It’s a big leap of presumption to say that people who profess to have faith never had it. The Word says they did…and they have turned away….

I do believe that we are Sealed and Assured of our Salvation if we continue in our faith. I have a friend who attended Bible College, became angry and today lives a life of total debauchery and still believes he’s a Christian with a few (well many) problems. You would say he never was a Christian. I would say he has departed from the faith by his own free will. And since he refuses to repent of his sin, alcoholism, cursing, mocking, etc. I am not his judge. His own sin will testify against him…unless he repents. He’s 63 now and time is not on his side.

For myself, I am grateful for God’s grace and assurance of Salvation. I am grateful for the Holy Spirit’s seal, his promise of eternal life, his Presence, his life as I continue in the vine. But I cannot take Him for granted. Like any relationship, it doesn’t follow that my own choice is now dead. I could at some point, decide that the narrow way of Christ is no longer for me. If I refuse to abide in the vine, I will disconnect myself from the source of nutrients, I will wither and die. And I will be cast out. That’s Scriptural. If the Holy Spirit convicts me, and I choose to listen and repent, I will be saved. That’s also Scriptural.

We may not agree on this point, but we are still sisters in Christ and I still love you and those who blog here for the glory of God. We will not agree on everything, to be sure, but I enjoy the discussion. Keep up the good work, Debs. Your blog is a worthwhile, Bible based defence against false teaching. Thank you!

Redeemed
Guest
Redeemed

Carolyn, you have disagreed agreeably.

When one is saved one is SEALED unto redemption. We are not akin to the situation where one makes a purchase (Jesus paid the price for us) and then
when it doesn’t work one returns it for a refund. In God’s economy it doesn’t work that way.

We don’t have the power to keep ourselves once we are saved and sealed. God cannot reject Himself and that is exactly what would happen if a person can walk away. 2 Timothy 2:13 speaks to this.

And where is that imaginary line one must cross to commit enough sin to go past the point of no return? How many times must a person sin in order to lose their salvation?

God chastens His own. If your friend was GENUINELY saved, then she will soon be chastened by the Lord as to her lifestyle. If a professing Christian sins, and is never chastened, then we can safely assume that the profession was not genuine. In extra cases, there is the sin unto death when God may prematurely call the person home.

Think about this. God knows the beginning from the end. So He was fully aware of ALL the sins each person will commit at the time of their conversion. With that in mind, He is the only One who has the power to keep us.

I hope this is helpful!

Carolyn
Guest
Carolyn

We here in North America are just about on our way to bed when you are just getting started. So I thought I would add a bit more to my comment. I actually have studied the subject of OSAS out quite a bit because of my friend mentioned above.

Two years ago when he lost his house, his job and his car, he stayed with us for nine months. During that time we got to know him very well. The first 3 months, I drove him to the liquor store every day for his case of 15 beer and pack of cigarettes. Funny how he didn’t have money for food…but he was able to support his habits. I had many talks with him about his faith…and I was most baffled at how he could still consider himself a Christian with his lifestyle. He talked the talk, however, and so I observed. But then things got ugly, he got abusive and I went to Bible study mode. In the end he cursed me out and I won’t allow him back here without some big changes. I have forgiven him, but I draw the line at abuse.

The reason I didn’t want to get into a big discussion on OSAS is that I haven’t been on the blog much and I although I have read some of the posts about William Branham, Kathryn Khulman, etc because that was my background…I wasn’t aware of any deep doctrinal differences. I just landed here Sunday as I was surfing and was genuinely sad for the abuse that you were suffering through, Deborah. So I had no premedited ideas of straightening anyone out. I will probably just do some listening for the time being and fade back into the shadows. But I did want you to know that my prayers are with you.

Carolyn
Guest
Carolyn

Colossians 1:23
if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

1 John 2:24
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Debs…how do you read these two verses? “if you continue” to me is conditional upon us continuing in the faith, the vine, in the way, in the Son….

My friend started out in the faith but wandered off when he became angry with another pastor. Some things became more important than obedience and submission

Carolyn
Guest
Carolyn

Sorry Redeemed. Just saw your comment now. In reply to this:

We don’t have the power to keep ourselves once we are saved and sealed. God cannot reject Himself and that is exactly what would happen if a person can walk away. 2 Timothy 2:13 speaks to this.

Did my friend walk away? To me he was saved…he repented of his sin, was studying to be a pastor and so was sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. Why would he walk away? Because he was angry. He became abusive to the pastor and they fell out of agreement. He says he never walked away from God, but his lifestyle says differently. Yes, he still may repent, but I have only seen a deeper hardening of his heart. I live in the real world. OSAS can be wishful thinking for those we love.

Hebrews 12:14-16
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

I dunno…I see someone who let a root of bitterness shipwreck his faith and he sold his birthright for a moment of anger that turned into a lifetime…

Carolyn
Guest
Carolyn

Debs. I concede that Romans 11 is talking about Israel and the Gentiles(the Church)…but still the principle is the fact that there is danger in unbelief and we can be cut off because of unbelief. We must not become arrogant or over confident as though it couldn’t happen to us.

Consider the principle in:
John 15
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

If we don’t remain in him…by faith, we will wither. Our faith is a living, growing, abiding, continuing, persevering, enduring confidence and obedience in the One who saved us. If our faith (which is our attachment to the branch), is gone…what sustains our life?

To me the whole OSAS argument hinges very securely on the word SEALED. Sealed is a promise with a condition. That’s all. It’s not holding God hostage if we become unbelieving and disobedient as the children of Israel in the wilderness. They tested God and lived with the consequences.

He does know the end from the beginning, so he is the only one who knows our heart. And if we choose him above our self, he will bring us to our reward, regardless if we stumble or struggle for he loves us and that is reassuring.

Carolyn
Guest
Carolyn

Do I see? LOL…

I’m seeing double right about now. I just woke up with this verse going through my mind so I thought I’d look it up. Wouldn’t you know…it’s another IF verse. I’ll paste it for your consideration and I will concentrate on your answers in the morning. Back to bed I go…

Hebrews 3:12-14
King James Version (KJV)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Redeemed
Guest
Redeemed

Carolyn, this in reply to your # 12 comment:

Two years ago when he lost his house, his job and his car, he stayed with us for nine months. During that time we got to know him very well. The first 3 months, I drove him to the liquor store every day for his case of 15 beer and pack of cigarettes. Funny how he didn’t have money for food…but he was able to support his habits. I had many talks with him about his faith…and I was most baffled at how he could still consider himself a Christian with his lifestyle. He talked the talk, however, and so I observed. But then things got ugly, he got abusive and I went to Bible study mode. In the end he cursed me out and I won’t allow him back here without some big changes. I have forgiven him, but I draw the line at abuse.

When I read this I immediately discerned that your friend was never a believer in the first place, a COUNTERFEIT, a PROFESSOR, NOT a possessor.Am I judging his heart, NO! There are so many red flags here waving that he is not genuine!

First of all, if I took someone in I would NEVER enable them be taking them down to get their alcohol – with drinking like that, your friend is obviously an ALCOHOLIC!! Not to mention that he was smoking like a chimney and obviously in bondage to cancer sticks.

Did it ever occur to you that it might have been his own fault that he lost his house?
And after you stopped helping him feed his habits, he got really ugly. HELLO!
And you put up with this for 9 months? My dear sister, you must have the gift of mercy! If I had taken him in he would not have been allowed to smoke or drink in my home and he would have been expected right from the getgo to pull his share of the load.

And how do you know that the altercation with the pastor was the pastor’s fault?

So if you are basing your view of OSAS on this friend, you are barking up the wrong tree. Over the years I have been exposed to people who have PROFESSED and have in the time of testing or it starts to wear thin that it comes out that they have NOT been truly saved! They know how to play the game! And by doing so they harden their own hearts.

It is very simple. There is nothing we can do to earn our salvation and there is nothing we can do to keep our salvation. When a true Christian sins, they are convicted and are miserable in it. And if they persist in it, they will either destroy themselves or the Lord will call them home prematurely. Their salvation is never in question, but they will give account at the Bema seat and they will suffer loss as they face the Lord and realize how they have failed to live for Him. Faithful servants will receive crowns and hear the Lord say “Well done, good and faithful servant” and tears will be shed by those who served themselves over the Lord.

Your friend is a classic example of a counterfeit “christian” who knows how to talk the talk but doesn’t walk the walk. I need to qualify this by saying that one can be a Christian and due to circumstances fall away for a time. This happened to me (I received the Lord at an early age but it was heartfelt) during a time of trial and I was very bitter toward the Lord. But the Holy Spirit kept drawing me back and affirming my faith. The Lord never left me and He will never leave a true believer. He keeps His own – I have doubt whatsoever of that.

Truthful Conversation
Guest
Truthful Conversation

Just a comment on all this, as Debs has listed the biblical verses and has done the explanations.

I was walking in sin when I married an unbeliever. When I went through this stage of disobedience, things happened to me which I knew was the Lord’s chastisement, and I had a constant longing for the Lord, and to be right with Him. I confess I lived under constant conviction of the Holy Spirit, and I was miserable. It was a very difficult time as my husband was not interested in my beliefs, and I went back and forth trying to witness to him, and giving up. I went in and out of a sinful lifestyle.

It is a very long story which I do not wish to go into, but eventually we attended a church, where my husband ‘gave his life to Jesus’. In the years to come I did not see any real change in him. He was still abusive, physically and verbally. He never showed any interest in God’s word, and only picked up his bible to take to church. After church he was often moody and nasty, he would regularly have me in tears. Sometimes we went out for lunch after church, and he would drink alcohol. I could not understand how anyone could walk straight of church and drink alcohol.

My husband and I separated seven years ago, he was already living a worldly lifestyle, and he has continued to drink heavily and show no interest in God, whatsoever. His friends are all worldly, he swears something terrible (he always did), and there is absolutely no evidence of sorrow or guilt over his sin. He never talks about the Lord and I can’t talk to him about God either. On the other hand, I turned my life COMPLETELY back to God, not because I am a good person, or a better person than my ex husband, but because I had been truly saved in the first place. I was always miserable when I was living with sin in my life.

My conclusion has to be that my ex husband was not truely saved. I do not judge him, I care for him, and I pray for him all the time. I pray that He will turn to Jesus before it is too late.

My point here is that there is a definite difference between someone who is TRULY saved and falls into sin, and those who have a false conversion.

Carolyn
Guest
Carolyn

ok. Here’s where I am

Can we judge sinful lifestyle? Yes. I would also state that lifestyle is our choice, not God’s
1 Corinthians 5:12
From Scripture:
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

Can we judge genuine faith? No. We cannot know another person’s heart.
From Scripture:
1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Can we lose genuine faith? I don’t know that either. But unbelief is not a popular option with God. It seems to be the dividing line.
From Scripture:
Hebrews 10:39
But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.
King James Version (KJV)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Can we judge conversion? Yes I would also state that that is God’s gift upon condition of our confession and belief
From Scripture:
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

And as long as we are on this earth I see…we still have the gift of choice. Choose this day whom you will serve. Choose between life and death. I choose Christ!

Sue
Guest
Sue

Agreeing largely with Deborah and hope all find the following helpful. Taken from Dr Robert Dean’s teachings.

What Does It Mean To Abide in John 15

Abide
Gk meno Strongs
1) to remain, abide
a) in reference to place
1) to sojourn, tarry
2) not to depart
a) to continue to be present
b) to be held, kept, continually
b) in reference to time
1) to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure
a) of persons, to survive, live
c) in reference to state or condition
1) to remain as one, not to become another or different
2) to wait for, await one

The Reformed and Arminian view is almost identical. They claim ‘abide’ = ‘believe’ (Gk pisteuo 4100).

Believe
Gk Pisteuo Strongs 4100
1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
a) of the thing believed
1) to credit, have confidence
b) in a moral or religious reference
1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
3) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
a) to be intrusted with a thing

Reformed: The Calvinist claims that those who do not abide; were not genuine believers in the first place, and will burn in the fires of hell vs6.

The Arminian: Those who do not abide, were saved, but lose their Salvation and will burn in the fires of hell. vs6.

The Calvinist never had it and will burn in hell.
The Arminian had it, and lost it, and will burn in hell.

Free Grace aka CHAFER: Abiding = FELLOWSHIP with God. Believers are the branches who either abide (stay) in fellowship, or do not abide in fellowship with God.
ALL the branches end up in heaven, it is their dead WORKS (fleshly) that are burned at the BEMA fire. 2Cor5:10; Rom14:10. [NOT the judgment fire of Rev.20]

Free Grace = Faith alone in Christ alone (no works pre or post salvation)

[Beware of the Crossless gospel of the Grace Evangelical Society]

Maranatha

Carolyn
Guest
Carolyn

Redeemer…yes, I know he is an alcoholic. Yes, I know a lot of things now. And it is much more complicated than labelling myself as a loopy enabler. Factor in about 20 other complications and you have it about right.

I’m not basing OSAS on any one individual. But he was a catalyst that made me think seriously about the subject. That’s all.

As far as judging him as a counterfeit Christian…I still don’t have to concern myself with that. He certainly thinks about God a lot. How do I know if he will or won’t one day kneel before God and repent of his sin? His mom was a Christian and prayed for him till her dying day. I have to believe that God put him here for a reason and my job was to take it one day at a time and keep myself in prayer.

Debs…
Up until about 12 years ago, I was a tongues talking, vision seeing, dream believing, experience oriented charismatic. I attended a Kathryn Khulman meeting in Toronto when I was 12…became totally star struck. Read every book, followed every charismatic celebrity, paddled down the WOF river, rounded the bend, caught up with the NAR crowd and then Wham! Bam! I got out just in time to miss Revival Todd and his boot kicking antics. Even though…would you believe it? He’s from the same town as me where he got his start in ministry. Also attended church with Ms. Extreme Prophetic Patricia King many years ago. She’s also originally from Abbotsford.

Anyhow, now I’m just a plain old Christian with no initials, ranks or labels attached. Just a Scripture based, faith based, fact based, Truth based, Christ based believer.

Carolyn
Guest
Carolyn

Hope your head feels better soon, Debs…ouch…I get caffeine related headaches. Not fun.

Also, good to hear some of the other comments. Experiences, thoughts and perspective. It’s all good.

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