Jacob Prasch – Twisting Scripture the Midrash Way

Shadows of the Beast- Jacob Prasch

Shadows of the Beast:  Jacob Prasch – Twisting Scripture the Midrash Way

So I bought the book, “Shadows of the Beast” by Jacob Prasch and didn’t really make it past the Prologue.  I was kinda horrified at a number of things.  I will begin to list them in this article.  To start off with, Jacob Prasch is anti Pre-Tribulational rapture and bases his whole ‘idea‘ on the premise that Jesus won’t come back and Rapture the church until the anti-Christ makes himself known in the middle of the Tribulation.  He uses this verse as his only backup:  (2 Thessalonians 2:3)  “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”

The problem is, Jacob is not telling us the truth, because if you go and read from the beginning of the chapter you find out that Paul is speaking to the Thessalonians, not about the Rapture, but about ‘the day of the Lord’.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1  Now regarding the arrival of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to be with him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
2  not to be easily shaken from your composure or disturbed by any kind of spirit or message or letter allegedly from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is already here.
3  Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not arrive until the rebellion comes and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.

Talking of pre-tribulationists, Jacob Prasch says, “They must also fail to draw due distinction between the Great Tribulation and “the Day of the Lord” which are distinct time periods.”  [pg. 17]     Well I beg to differ.

What exactly is “the day of the Lord'”?  The day of the Lord is The Tribulation made up of two parts;  The Tribulation being first 3.5 years and the Great Tribulation being last 3.5 years, totaling 7 years from start to finish plus Jesus’ Second Coming!

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So what 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is saying is this: The Tribulation aka “the day of the Lord” will not start until the apostasy comes first, and Jesus’ Second Coming (when He sets foot on earth) will not take place until after the anti-Christ has been reveal.

Another way to look at it is that, the Antichrist will be revealed before ‘the day of the Lord’ (or Tribulation stars) but can only be revealed right after the time of the Rapture.

Jacob Prasch says, “The Rapture and Resurrection cannot happen until the “man of lawlessness” is revealed. [pg. 22]   Then he quotes (2 Thessalonians 2:3) “Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come unless the apostasy come first, and the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction.”    He is saying that the word, “it” is the Rapture and Resurrection only.   This is FALSE.  As shown above, it is “the Day of the Lord” which encompasses The Tribulation and Jesus’ Second Coming.

Regarding the Rapture

1 Thessalonians 5:1-6
1 Now on the topic of times and seasons, brothers and sisters, you have no need for anything to be written to you.
2 For you know quite well that the day of the Lord will come in the same way as a thief in the night.
3 Now when they are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction comes on them, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will surely not escape.
4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in the darkness for the day to overtake you like a thief would.
5 For you all are sons of the light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of the darkness.
6 So then we must not sleep as the rest, but must stay alert and sober.

Paul says: (1 Thessalonians 5:1)“But of the times and seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.”  The word time here in Greek means chronos (khron’-os) in which we get the English word chronology.  So, of the general chronology, of this particular time Paul says that no one needs write about it because they have ALREADY been instructed: 1) concerning the general time when Jesus said He would come and 2) concerning the particular time.  So the general time CAN be known, but not the actual time. And this is a FANTASTIC message.

In (1 Thessalonians 5:2-3) Paul says: “For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

Time of Jacob’s trouble

It is IMPORTANT to note that the whole 7 year Tribulation period (also known as “Time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jeremiah 30:7) is considered a time of JUDGEMENT from God, not just the last 3.5 years which some seem to think.   Judgments will be poured out on earth as the seven-sealed scrolls are opened consecutively by the Lamb.  Judgments of the Seals, Trumpets and plagues GROWS IN INTENSITY, until you reach 2nd half of the tribulation, namely the Great Tribulation which lasts for another 3.5 years, where God’s Wrath is finally poured out IN FULL on mankind.  If Jacob Prasch thinks that the first half of The Tribulation is not part of God’s wrath on earth, then I do not know what bible he is reading.  Maybe he should stop reading extra-biblical books like the Midrash and pay attention to the Word of God alone to get a clue.

So how does the Rapture of the church relate to “the Day of the Lord” which happens before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ by 7 years?  We know that “the Day of the Lord” will come suddenly and unexpectedly like a thief in the night, in other words, The Tribulation starts suddenly and unexpectedly.  And the Rapture of the church MARKS the end of ‘the day of Grace’ and simultaneously MARKS the beginning of the ‘the day of the Lord’.  As soon as the church is removed, the Antichrist is revealed and the trials and tribulations of this world begin in all earnest, the birth pangs are over, the birth begins, and no one can escape it.

1 Thessalonians 5:5-6
5 For you all are sons of the light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of the darkness.
6 So then we must not sleep as the rest, but must stay alert and sober.

Paul tells the born again believers to be alert and sober, to watch for Jesus!

Looking for Satan

We are not to look for Satan as Jacob Prasch want us too, we do not have to identify the him and his False Prophet! Jacob deliberately writes a book twisting scripture trying to cheat saints out of the Blessed Hope. The Bible tells us we are look towards Jesus Christ only and comfort one another with the message that He will return.    (1 Thessalonians 4:1-18)  “15 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thessalonians 4:1-18

1  Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2  For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3  For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4  That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5  Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6  That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7  For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
8  He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
9  But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
10  And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;
11  And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
12  That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
13  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Jacob Prasch mentions many ideas and mis-conceptions in his book that make it sound like Pre-tribulationsists are a bunch of false teachers that need to be dealt with urgently.  I am going to list them and answer them:

1) He makes the statement that “The patriarch of Pre-Tibulationism, Dr. John Walvoord of Dallas Theological Seminary admitted there is no stated biblical passage overtly teaching a Pre-Tribulational position.  Walvoord states, that “the Rapture is between the lines”. [pg. 16]     So because Dr John Walvoord changes his view now we must all fall down and beg for forgiveness because a so called patriach of Pre-Tribulationism says so?  I think not.  Walvoord can change his mind, but the Word of God stays the same.

2) Jacob states that Pre-Tribulationists are against identifying the anti-Christ and this is a BIG problem.  This is news to me, I had no idea that we were against identifying the anti-Christ because the bible tells us that  (1 Thessalonians 5:6) “we must not sleep as the rest, but must stay alert and sober.”    However the bible also does tell us not to focus our attentions on evil things, but to focus our attentions on Jesus Christ.

Colossians 3:1-4
1 If you then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sits on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall you also appear with him in glory.

3) Jacob states; “The Greek term for “tribulation” (thelipsis) and the eschatological testing in Rev. 3:10 are precise synonyms despite linguistic evidence to the contrary.  Jesus in fact informed Christians that they would have tribulation in the world.” [ pg 17]       Oh boy, talk about trying to fool us, do you think we are of low intelligence? Of course Christians will have ‘tribulation’ in this world, but if we look at Revelation 3:10 it talks about the hour of temptation  which refers to THE Tribulation.    (Revelation 3:10)  “10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.    Jacob, should know, being the self proclaimed guru of all guru’s that an ‘hour’ in the Bible, denotes a period of time.  Having “trials and tribulations” is very different from THE Tribulation, a set period of time where God pours out His judgement on the earth for a full 7 years.

Revelation 3:7, 10
7 “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write the following: “This is the solemn pronouncement of the Holy One, the True One, who holds the key of David, who opens doors no one can shut, and shuts doors no one can open:
10 Because you have kept my admonition to endure steadfastly, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come on the whole world to test those who live on the earth.

The promise of verse 10, like all the promises to these different churches, is for every true child of God“Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.  This is the Lord’s own pledge to those who love His Name and seek to keep His Word – they will not be left down here to pass through the appalling tribulation that is just ahead of those who “dwell upon the earth.” This expression is found frequently in the book of Revelation. It does not simply mean those who live in the world. A careful reading of the various passages in which this peculiar term is found will make it clear that “the earth-dwellers” are in contrast to those whose citizenship is in Heaven. They are persons who, while professing to be Christians, refuse the heavenly calling. They prove by their earthly-mindedness and worldly ways that they really belong to this world. All their hopes and their treasures are here. The Lord has said, “Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”  [Emphasis added]   — Dr Henry Ironside

4)  Jacob states that Pre-Tribulationsists flounder because “they equate the removal of the Holy Spirit with the removal of the church.  This is a mistaken eschatology resulting from a mistaken pneumatology; they misunderstand the doctrine of the Holy Spirit, which results in a further miscomprehension of 2 Thessalonians.” [pg. 17]    We misunderstand the doctrine of the Holy Spirit now do we?   No Jacob.  We understand it fine.   It’s Jacob who is making up stories here to fill pages in his book.  Jacob believes that when we say that the Holy Spirit removes the church during the Rapture, he actually thinks we mean the Holy Spirit goes forever, good-bye, and the rest of the people on earth have to make do without Him.  Nope, we know that the Holy Spirit is then poured out as God once again shifts His attention back to the salvation of Israel during the 7 year Tribulation period.

Acts 2:17
17 ‘And in the last days it will be,’ God says, ‘that I will pour out my Spirit on all people, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy, and your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams.5) He states 2 dangers to the Pre-Tribulationist view:

a) That we will not be prepared for the reality of the Tribulation.  Forewarned is forearmed” Jacob Prasch says [pg 19] .    Really?  What does he plan to do to hide away in a bunker in his garden from God’s judgments during the first 3.5 years of the THE Tribulation?

b) His second concern is that we (Pre-Tribulationists) won’t know who the anti-Christ and False Prophet will be, and this according to Jacob Prasch is a huge problem.   This is ridiculous because as born again Christians we will have an inkling to who it could be because the bible tells us to keep watch for the signs of the times, as it means Jesus’ return is getting closer and closer, but there is no need for us know identify him because we will be raptures right before He makes himself known to the world and the Tribulation stars.

1 Thessalonians 5:5-6
5 For you all are sons of the light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of the darkness.
6 So then we must not sleep as the rest, but must stay alert and sober.

6)  Jacob then calls Pre-Tribulationsists false christs/prophets, deceiving the Elect.

a)  “Jesus Himself warned us of false Christs and false prophets in the Olivet Discourse, yet just as Preterists falsely teach it not longer applies to Christians because it has all (instead of partially) transpired in the events surrounding A.D. 70, Pre-Tribulationsists are left agreeing with them that it does not apply to us because we have already been raptured before the Antichrist and False Prophet become and issue.” [pg. 20]

b)  Jacob says we are not the Elect, we are false Christians, false prophets;  “The rapture and resurrestion cannot and shall not take place until the faithful believers can identify the ultimate two beasts of Revelation Chapter 13. The popular myth asserting the contrary as if it were an exegetical fact is a dangerous myth with must be debunked as a deception perpetrated against the Elect  [pg. 21]

False Christ/False Prophet, deception perpetrated against the Elect;  this is tantamount to calling us Heretics = a dissenter from established religious teaching.

7) Jacob says more and more people are fortunately turning away from the “erroneous nature of Pre-Tribulationalism and the need understand how to properly identify the final Antichrist and False Prophet – the beast of Revelation 13.” [pg. 20]    Yes more people are apostacising and turning away from Jesus Christ and focusing their attention on Satan instead. You are helping fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2:3 “…. For that day will not arrive until the rebellion comes …”

8)  Jacob says, “If only those who have wisdom will understand how to calculate the number of the beast (Rev. 13:18), and if it requires the true believers (whose wisdom is Christ), then who will be here with the wisdom to do the calculation?  These cannot be the tribulation saints because if they had the wisdom they would not be here either.” [pg. 19]

Revelation 13:18
18 This calls for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the beast’s number, for it is man’s number, and his number is 666.The bible does not say we have to know, it says, let the one who has insight calculate the number.  By the time THE Tribulation starts and the Holy Spirit is poured out on the earth, people will have the wisdom to calculate the number of the beast and know who it is for sure.  Or is Jacob contradicting himself and saying that the Holy Spirit won’t be on earth during THE Tribulation?  Contradictions, galore in this book.

9)  This is a classic:   Jacob accuses Pre-tribulationists of saying that the apostasy is actually the Rapture. He says, “Some even venture so far as to identify the apostasy (apostasia) as the Rapture, not, as the context dictates, the departure from the truth when a delusional judgment comes upon those rejecting the truth they once professed. (2 Thes 2:10-11) [pg. 20]     I have never heard of this before, Jacob must have dug deep to find this nonsense to add to his book to paint us with a tarred brush.   If one looks at how Jacob Prasch has twisted the truth, one would think he is under a strong delusion. (2 Thes 2:10-11)

10)  Jacob Prasch says “that a very good translation of Laodicea is as a compound Greek term lao-dikaomai meaning  “people’s rights” or “people’s opinions”. Pre-tribulationists may have a right to their opinion, but they have no right to expect others to believe it when they themselves admit they cannot prove it with a single verse or passage by an inductive exegetical means” [pg. 21]    Jacob, Pre-Tribulationists have never denied that they cannot prove their position.  If you have found someone who has changed their eschatological view, it’s only because if you look deeper you will find that more than likely their entire doctrine is  suspect.   If we look at you with a magnifying glass, we find that you twist scripture, fellowship with men who follow doctrines of demons, insist that Christians spend their time identifying Satan, and use extra biblical manuscripts called the Midrash to interpret the bible thereby completely negating the Holy Spirit – see below:

Jacob Prasch was asked by Richard Engstrom this question:

“Can a group of sincere, literate, English speaking people in isolation from the rest of the world, come to a COMPLETE understanding of ALL that God deeds to us through the Bible, if all they have in their possession is a KJV without notes (without Midrash, without Eidersheim, without Josephus)?”

Jacob’s answer was complicated, high-handed – but his basic reply was “NO!”

Engstrom comments:

“No matter how you slice it, his answer was NO! He denies that YOU, dear reader, can come to a COMPLETE understanding of ALL that God deeds to us through the Bible, if all you have in your possession is a KJV without notes (Midrash, without Eidersheim, without Josephus). You be the judge. Did I misrepresent his answer or not?”

Jacob’s full answer is now given:

“The Word of God was given in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic – not Elizabethan English. I accept the infallibility of the original manuscripts in the original languages, and not the infallibility of any translation, be it KJV or otherwise. Literacy in English is not a major factor, scripture demonstrates the importance of bringing out the original meaning in the original languages (e.g. Neh. 8:8 where after the captivity most people no longer knew Hebrew so the original Hebrew meaning had to be explained ). Hence, because I believe in the priority of the original languages (I have more faith in the bible than I do in translations of it ) MY ANSWER To YOUR FIRST QUESTION IS NO.”  —http://www.apostasynow.com/articles/midrash.html

Please read this article:  MIDRASH: THE CAMEL’S NOSE

We only need Jesus Christ to understand the Bible:

Revelation 3:7-8
7 “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write the following: “This is the solemn pronouncement of the Holy One, the True One, who holds the key of David, who opens doors no one can shut, and shuts doors no one can open:
8 ‘I know your deeds. (Look! I have put in front of you an open door that no one can shut.) I know that you have little strength, but you have obeyed my word and have not denied my name.

The Lord spoke of Himself as “…the True One, who holds the key of David, who opens doors no one can shut, and shuts doors no one can open” (3:7). This verse is clearly a reference to Isaiah 22:22. In that Isaiah passage he who had the key of David was the treasurer of David’s house. There it is said of Eliakim, “The key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.” The remainder of the passage shows that Eliakim was a type of the Lord Jesus Christ, the one on whom should be hung all the glory of His Father’s house. He, by His Spirit, opens the great treasure-house of divine truth, and none can shut it. On the other hand where there is perversity of spirit and an unwillingness to walk in the truth, He shuts and none can open. So He has said elsewhere, “If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness” (Matthew 6:23).

It is blessed to realize that, while Christ is said to have the key of David, there is another sense in which we see that He is the key. By the presentation of Himself to the souls of His people He opens up the treasures of His Word. Thus Christ is the key to the Holy Scriptures, and no other is needed. To understand the Bible you need only to know Christ. [Emphasis added] —  Dr Henry Ironside

The Bible is clear, no Midrash, no other extra biblical manuscripts or tools, just Jesus Christ is needed.  Jacob Prasch does not tell us the truth when he tells us that we need other tools to understand the Bible.

What is Midrash?

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If we go and read about Midrash here on Moriel’s website, we can clearly see that something is very very wrong.

The Midrash definition is extremely vague, so much so that Jacob Prasch says,

Unless someone has been educated in Judaism, Hebrew, or theology, it is easier to demonstrate midrash than to explain it.”   

How peculiar, why can’t he explain it, are we not smart enough?

Strangely enough Wickipedia can explain it.

Midrash (Hebrew plural midrashim, lit. “to investigate” or “study”) is a homiletic method of biblical exegesis. The term also refers to the whole compilation of homiletic teachings on the Bible.

Midrash is a way of interpreting biblical stories that goes beyond simple distillation of religious, legal or moral teachings. It fills in many gaps left in the biblical narrative regarding events and personalities that are only hinted at. [1]

So it helps you “go beyond” teachings and “fill in the gaps” of the Bible;  that is very interesting – basically you are adding “extra biblical revelation” to the bible.  Jewish websites and others will admit Midrash is a collection of stories, allegory, history, scientific observations and legend.  Jacob claims the word Midrash is supposedly mentioned in the bible, as he claims here in this article:   What does the Word of God Actually Say About Midrash?.  But then we need to ask ourselves so is Enoch mentioned in the Bible, this does not mean we now can read the Book of Enoch as something inspired.

I went to go and look through the bible for the word “Midrash” and I can’t find it, but then after reading Jacob Prasch’s articles, the word “Midrash” does actually appear, as the word “story”  – this is what Jacob deems to be “Midrash” in the Bible.

Strong’s Number H4097 matches the Hebrew (midrash), which occurs 2 times in 2 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV (2Ch 13:22;  2Ch 24:27)

1) study, exposition, midrash, record, story
a) writings of a didactic nature
b) midrash – transliteration of the Hebrew word

Root Word (Etymology):   Hebrew (darash) – Strong’s Number H1875

meaning to resort to, seek, seek with care, enquire, require, search be it of God or of heathen Gods.

Hmmmm.  Really?  I think someone is a trying to make the Bible fit the Midrash.  Just because the word ‘story’ means Midrash, and the root of it means to ‘seek’,  it does not mean we can use stories and fables or ancient methods of study to investigate the bible.

Prasch states:

“You will never understand the Book of Revelation with the kind of limited approach to biblical interpretation that is taught in Protestant seminaries. Midrash is like a quadratic equation or a very complex second order differential equation, a thirteen or fourteen step equation. Some people take the first step of grammatical-historical exegesis and think the equation is solved”  [Emphasis added]The problem with the Reformers is that they only went so far. They made rules governing the application of their grammatical-historical system in order to refute medieval Roman Catholicism, and many of those rules are still taught in theological seminaries today.  [Emphasis added]

Jacob Prasch claims that you need to be well educated in Greek, Hebrew and a whole host of other rabbinical teachings to “truly understand scripture“.  This sounds very much like Roman Catholicism who only speak in Latin (so that you don’t understand) and tell their converts that they will never be smart enough to understand the bible; so you need to rely on specialist experts in all forms of theological studies to give you the message instead.

As I mentioned above, scripture is clear, you only need the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to be able to understand scripture and Christians through-out the centuries have done fantastically fine without Jacob Prasch and his Midrash.   Judging by the way Jacob has handled such simple scriptures as those mentioned at the very beginning of the article, I would say that a Reformer from a few hundreds of years ago could run circles around him and teach him a thing or two on CORRECT BIBLICAL INTERPRETATION.

But according to Prasch, it is just so terrible to think that the Reformers only went so far in their faith and could go no further without the Midrash.  It would seem Jacob Prasch is trying to take us back to the dark ages where the little people have to listen to the big people with regards to what the Bible says.  See (Galatians 4:2-12)  This is unbiblical.

Midrash and Kabbalah

And now we come to the FACT that there is a connection between Midrash and Kabbalah.  Surprise!!  Now, they say that the earlier Midrash differs from the later Medieval versions, but I mean who is pulling the wool over who’s eyes here?   These Jewish manuscripts, writings and studies are not OT Biblically inspired – this is where some of the Apocrypha (Magisterium, Canon Law, Sirach, Maccabees, Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Susanna) comes from.

Let’s go back to the Wickipedia definition of Midrash:

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“Midrash (Hebrew plural midrashim, lit. “to investigate” or “study”) is a Hebrew term referring to the not exact, but comparative (homiletic) method of exegesis (hermeneutic) of Biblical texts, which is one of four methods cumulatively called Pardes. The term midrash can also refer to a compilation of homiletic teachings (commentaries) on the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible), in the form of legal and ritual (Halakhah) and legendary, moralizing, folkloristic, and anecdotal (Aggadah) parts.”

What is Pardes?

“The term, sometimes also spelled PaRDeS, is an acronym formed from the name initials of these four approaches, which are:

eshat  – “plain” (simple) or the direct meaning.
Remez  – “hints” or the deep (allegoric) meaning beyond just the literal sense.
Derash – from Hebrew darash: “inquire” (seek) – the comparative (midrashic) meaning, as given through similar occurrences.
Sod (pronounced with a long O as in gold) – “secret” (mystery) or the mystical meaning, as given through inspiration or revelation.

Really?  “Secret, mystery, mystical meaning, as given through inspiration or revelation.”

It would seem that mysticism is denounced when it comes to other preachers who delve into it and even Jacob and his ministry are quick to label them as false teachers, but it is biblical when it comes to Midrash?  How is this possible? What stories has he spun over the eyes of those following him, that they have swallowed up the lie?  The Midrash is nothing but a very sly and sneaky way of getting believers involved in mysticism.

Multiple meanings for the Bible?

“Midrash makes heavy use of allegory and typology to illustrate and illuminate doctrine, but never as a basis for doctrine. It sees multiple meanings in Bible texts found in strata,”   [Emphasis added] — http://www.moriel.org/articles/sermons/midrash.htm

  1. Using Midrash to search through the Bible to illustrate and illuminate the doctrine – instead of the Holy Spirit who illuminates.
  2. You need a Jewish Rabbi to explain Midrash to you before you can have the “secret key” that will open the door to understanding.
  3. Use Midrash to searching for “secret knowledge
  4. Using Midrash to finding “multiple meanings” in the Bible.   Apparently the only way to find God’s proper truth is if you have multiple meanings.

Gnosticism teachers that the Bible cannot be understood as it is, you need to have a “secret key” which unlocks the “hidden mysteries” in the texts.  This is EXACTLY what Jacob Prasch presents to us under the banner of Christianity.

The Bible says…

John 14:26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

You do not need to understand Hebrew or Greek, or have a degree to understand the Bible, all you need is the Holy Spirit abiding in you.   Anyone who tells you that you need to look outside of scripture in order to understand it is not telling you the truth.

John MacArthur

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a)  Jacob Prasch says that Dr John Walvoord is a good man, excellent preacher and author like John MacArthur. [pg 16]

Who is John MacArthur?  A Calvinist who preaches that Jesus did not die for the whole world but for the Elect only. He preaches that you are not saved, you are CHOSEN by God before birth and that if you are Elect your children will be Elect.  John MacArthur denies the Blood of Jesus Christ and says it’s ‘just liquid’.  John MacArthur believes in a works based Salvation, called Lordship Salvation.

b) Jacob says, “Among these bretheren  are some of my closest personal friends who seek to uphold biblical truth in an age of apostasy where it is being eroded.  Among these are Dave Hunt, Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Dr David Hocking, Pastor Chuck Smith, Dr Thomas Ice, Dr Randolph Price…” [pg. 16]

I’m only going to focus on Chuck Smith.  Chuck  Smith is the founder of Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa and the Jesus Movement in the 70’s that  Jacob Prasch says he belonged too in the hippie days.  See Shadows of the Beast [pg.19]

Chuck Smith close and personal friends with Jacob Prasch

Who is Chuck Smith:

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Lonnie Frisbee

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Chuck Smith

“Actually “the Calvary Chapel Movement was essentially spawned by Lonnie Frisbee, not Chuck Smith. It was Chuck’s embracing of Frisbee that drew the massive crowds of young hippies during the Jesus Movement…who then grew up and were Institutionalized by the opportunistic and shrewd Businessman, Chuck Smith.

Can a healthy Spirit-Led Movement of God be founded upon a man, Lonnie Frisbee, who was doing LSD and having homosexual relations with other men on Saturday…and then preaching the “real” Jesus Christ and Gospel on Sunday?

Lonnie Frisbee’s life and struggles with drugs and homosexuality is well documented. He died of AIDS as a result of his homosexual lifestyle. A very sad end I wouldn’t wish on anyone.

Kathryn Kuhlman, another Calvary Chapel and Chuck Smith partner that was instrumental in the genesis of the Movement is hailed as the major influence in Benny Hinn’s life.  The hyper-Charismatic “faith healer”,

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Kathryn Kuhlman

Kuhlman, was very close to Smith and very much a part of the early days of CC.

Chuck Smith intervened with a Church Discipline Process with regards to David Hawking’s Adultery and sex scandal, circumventing another Church’s Scripturally motivated disciplinary process.

The list of scandals and cover-ups in Camp Calvary Chapel, Chuck Smith’s Progeny, is astounding. This site documents the tip

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Chuck Smith and Rick Warren apostacising together

of the Ice Burg (but we’ll get to many others in time, and the list keeps growing as more people contact me with information).

A defense I’ve heard from some in the Online Discernment community, the supposed “Watch People” of “Sound Doctrine” and “Apostasy” etc. is, “Well, Chuck Smith is a gifted bible teacher”…and that excuses the Scandals and lack of following Scripture in dealing with sin in the Camp.

Well, what happens if Chuck Smith is preaching Heresy with regards to a Core Doctrine of the Faith? Can Chuck Smith be “wrong” and have a “wrong interpretation of Scripture” on a foundational issue like the Resurrection? Personhood? (Who the “real me” is).

I submit that Chuck Smith cannot be wrong on the Doctrine of Resurrection and be trusted as a true Prophet of God. The issue of Resurrection is key to our Faith. If one is “wrong” on the Resurrection…then others (Gnostics, Emergents, RCC, Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, you name it) can be “wrong”, too, and it shouldn’t rise to the level of calling out the different “interpretation”…if we can just ignore something as serious as a Heretical View of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ and of the Saints.”

“What does Chuck Smith say about who “we” are as “the Real Me”? What is Chuck Smith’s teaching regarding the Doctrine of Resurrection?

Chuck Smith teaches that (in his own words, see video) that “the REAL ME is spirit“…classic Gnosticism.

Chuck Smith goes on to teach a Doctrine of Resurrection of both Jesus Christ and the Saints where “your spirit LEAVES your body” and “goes into a NEW body” after you die. Classic Jehovah’s Witness Theology.

He goes on to explain that Jesus Christ had a “similar but different” body when He Resurrected. It is not the “same” Physical Body that has been Glorified, but rather the “spirit” of Jesus (and our “spirit” who is the “real me“) LEAVES our “old bodies” and then migrates to a “new body“…some Quasi-Spirit Body. This is Heresy.

I call on Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel to repent of their Heresy regarding the Doctrine of Resurrection. They cannot be “wrong” on this Core Foundational issue as the Gnostics and Jehovah’s Witnesses are. If we compromise the integrity of this Foundational Truth…then we are on a Slippery Slope and we are preaching a “different Jesus”.

There is no “old body” in the Tomb that Jesus arose from. Jesus Christ has “one” Literal Physical Earthly Body that was Glorified. We have one Literal Physical Earthly Body that is “the real us” that is Glorified.   Jesus’s “spirit” and our “spirit” does not “leave our old body” and migrate to some “new body” that is a Quasi-Spirit Body. That is JW and Gnostic and off the Reservation of Christian orthodoxy.”      [Emphasis added]    — http://calvarychapelabuse.com/wordpress/?p=998

2 Corinthians 6:14-15
14 Be you not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion has light with darkness?
15 And what concord has Christ with Belial? or what part has he that believes with an infidel?

Ephesians 5:11
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Please share:

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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Chris

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

Deborah. the real thing happening today is people who are saved and an adoration fall down on their faces worshipping God vs the false stuff where people are being pushed over.

You are reading things int what Jacob meant that is not true

“I do not know how he can even remotely call that being ‘slain in the spirit’ or compare that to what is happening today”

He is not comapring here he is showing you the opposite.

Deborah sorry I just do not have the time to quibble over these issues as I am a working person.

I know Jacob personally and know for a fact that he does not condone “slain in the Spirit” as you read into his book.

Michael

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

George Whitefield was very disturbed when he saw people being “slain in the spirit” at John Wesley’s meetings, but a few days later it happened in his own meetings. Granted a lot of it found today is just nonsense, pushing people down or people getting stirred up emotionally by a hypnotic and manipulative speaker. But the real thing is scriptural-it does happen.

Prasch wrote:”But the real thing is scriptural-it does happen”

It does happen means he agrees, full stop. There is no question that he sanctions being slain in the spirit…unless of course he talks with forked tongue…not even debatable.

This highlights a huge problem in charismatic teachers/preachers/authors…they are so ambigious…never really make clearcut sense. They seem to enjoy double meanings to confuse.

Myfanwy Brown

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

Debs and Michael,

I wholeheartedly agree with you both! Jacob Prasch has been very subtle and SLY in what he says..indeed it is ‘camouflage’ of a sort, so that, I believe, he can backtrack.

Satan loves to confuse the undiscerning and those that just follow blindly after a man’s teachings, and not biblical truth!! These men/women twist and hide things so subtly it can be hard to find a lie/deception.. a bit like ‘where’s Wally’!! Only if you look through a discerner’s glasses, with guidance from the Holy Spirit.. you can spot him!

Redeemed

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

Chris, I have not read JP’s book, Shadow of the Beast, but I have seen quotes from those I trust who have.

There is a concerted attack on the pretribulational Rapture position today as never before. So-called discernment ministries are tearing it to shreds and throwing it on the ash heap along with balanced dispensational theology.
I find this both sad and alarming.

I am not a student of JP’s eschatology, but have been told that he has never held to pretrib, but rather to more of a mid-trib position. Christians can have honest differences of opinions and have respectful discussion, but if Mr. Prasch called those who believe in pretrib HERETICS, this crosses the line. This is putting many faithful Christians in the same category as the worst of false teachers! Can you turn a blind eye to this?

John Chingford

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

Hi Debs

I too have grave concerns about Jacob Prasch’s teachings in recent years. Also I have concerns about his associations. I wrote to him on a number of occasions and to his co-workers (never got a reply) about his association with Chuck Missler, Chuck Smith, Roger Oakland etc etc. Also I saw his very weak reply (on the internet) regarding Moriel’s seeming endorsement of Lausanne.

Then Jacob preaches Arminianism and some very strange eschatology teachings. He overuses the Talmud, Midrash etc to interpret the Scriptures. I have too many issues with his approach to a number of things. He used to “tickle my ears” with his seeming Judaic insight into the scriptures, but over the last few years (since I started my blog) I have wised up to his iffy teaching through all my investigation and research.

Jacob is STILL very influenced by his pentecostal background and by the exaggerated stories he probably heard. I also have a background in Pentecostal churches but have had my eyes completely opened to all the lies and pretence they used to promote with their version of Christianity. I have first hand experience of the tactics they used to win people to Christ through emotionalism, lies, pretended power etc etc. Their justification has always been “the end justifies the means”.

I personally do not know about whether being “slain in the spirit” actually happened during John Wesley’s time. I don’t trust George Whitfield because he tried to persuade in favour of the slave trade. John Wesley was told to preach faith until he got faith. Did he ever reach that point? The records we have today about John Wesley tend to probably mostly come from charismatics. John Wesley (like Jacob Prasch) believed in a works salvation. This means that they had to use “methods” to obtain God’s favour.

The long/short of it, is that we really cannot be dogmatic whether those we used to trust were telling the truth or not or whether it was from God or not.

Certainly when individuals are in a very close walk with the Living God, powerful things CAN happen but it will always be scriptural because God knows that we need a plumbline to test these things. Do we have any scripture verses that show people falling at the laying on of hands? The examples Jacob gave were personal individual experiences WITHOUT any other people present to “push” them. Most of these were OT saints who were not filled with the Holy Spirit but only experienced the occasional anointing. John was an Apostle who was entrusted with the foundations of the church. Therefore, I do not believe we can use them as justification for what is happening today.

Our focus MORE THAN EVER needs to be on our personal walk with God through devotion (prayer and Bible study) and obedience. Let’s stop looking to “super” men as our guides of truth. Many tend to measure a teachers value as an authority (on truth) based upon their “so-called” experiences or “so-called” acts of apparent power. If we trust all those who SEEM to have power then we will be deceived into following a wrong path IF WE DO NOT test it with scripture.

Andy

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

Jacob Prasch presents himself as if he is some kind of “discernment guru”, but then he fully supports Billy Graham and defends the Grahams, without telling you that the Grahams have been pro-catholic for many decades, that the Grahams believe the catholic fake “gospel” is the true Gospel, that the Grahams have supported new agers and Bible deniers over the years.

So that should tell you something about Prasch’s “discernment ministry”.

John Chingford

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

Good point Andy. I forgot to mention that.

I also meant to mention something else. He endorse on his site a new house group movement which claim to follow on NT lines of church behaviour. The leadership of this group may be influencing Jacob somewhat. They are charismatic but opposed to the restoration movement style of the 1970’s. However, these groups of fellowship are virtually cultish in the way they do things. They do not believe in one man leadership but determine the Will of God by consensus of opinion i.e the show of hands. For example the consensus of opinion was that it was okay for parents to allow their children to watch Harry Potter films, therefore it MUST be God’s will. This group follow many other such dangerous practices and yet Jacob is in fellowship with the pioneer of this group.

I have also asked Jacob about this, but again no replies.

I wrote about that “biblical church” house fellowship movements on my blog some time ago. Please read from this point [removed] and then let me know your thoughts.

I actually believe they are trying to get back to real Christianity but are missing the point and are opening themselves to further deception through a lack of proper structure and leadership.

The pioneers of this group are spreading these ideas in many Christian assemblies and influencing those like Jacob.

Colin Ford

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

Deborah,
I am not sure how Jacob Prasch has become the ‘centre of attention’ on this site, but I agree much with what has been said about Mr Prasch here. Unquestionably he is a very intelligent, complex and learned man who I understand is very conversant in the biblical languages. I have learnt much from his teachings in the past.
However it was about eighteen months ago that I became very troubled by some of his teachings and associations.
He does indeed make much of Nehemiah 8.8 (read the context)and uses it, I believe to promote himself as some sort of ‘guru’ that we must listen to in order that the Scriptures (especially the OT) may be better understood by us lesser mortals.
He ‘shares the platform’ with all sorts (pre-trib ministries), even ecumenical ministries. I believe he is very much a man who ‘Hunts with the hounds, and runs with the hares’.
His original position on the rapture, wasn’t against those who disagreed with the timing of it, but only against those that denied it’s biblical veracity.
I did read his book ‘Shadows of the Beast’ (soon after publication) and your quotes are ad verbatim regarding his views on those who hold to the pre-tribulation rapture belief (I just read the pages quoted).
From memory I am not sure if he used the actual word ‘heretic’, anywhere else, however I believe that you are correct in your interpretation of his statements to use such language.
I am sure you would agree with much in ‘Shadows of the Beast’ regarding the heretical Word Faith and Charismatic false teachers that he names, and a lot else besides.
I often listen to Bridge Lane (I don’t agree with their rapture views). And Jacob has often preached there, and Truth for Youth etc. I am sure they wouldn’t invite him again if they read his book! But there again I often wonder?
The old secular saying; ‘Money makes the world go round’??.
Kind regards.

Redeemed

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

The more I delve into the teachings of Jacob Prasch, the more offbeat teachings I find.

In regards to the Rapture, Prasch believes that the Church must be present to identify the Anti-Christ before the Rapture can occur. His emphasis in his book “Shadows of the Beast” seems to be on the Anti-Christ which is the exact opposite of where our focus should be. He holds a twisted view of what is the “Blessed Hope”.

Also I found it quite startling to see what he lists as 3 Aspects of Salvation:

Having been saved
Being Saved
Going to be Saved
Been Born Again
Going to be Born Again
Going to be Born Again

He seems to run everything through the filter of the Midrash. Sorry to say I find his beliefs quite strange.

He regards the Pretrib position as DANGEROUS because the Church will not be forewarned about the Anti-Christ.

On the one hand he claims to respect those who hold to Pretrib and lists some as friends. Then on the other hand he says that those who hold to Pretrib are included with false prophets. You can’t have it both ways.

Louise

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

Chris

>> Regarding Jacob – as I have said earlier there are a FEW things I do not agree with Jacob – and I might be wrong- but please remember that Jacob has done much more with regards to apologetics than you and I together and I do not see the point of bringing him up in our discussions.

Wow, you see I think for myself and let the Holy Spirit dictate, I don’t let another person dictate my thoughts for me. Jacob might be HIGHLY intelligent and speak several languages, but that does not make me stupid.

The fact that Prasch insinuates that those who believe in pretrib rapture are HERETICS in his book, “Shadows of the Beast’ makes me wonder about him…
Oh and the fact that he says “the phenomenon of being ‘slain in the spirit‘ occurs many times in both Testaments” The Dilemma of Laodecia pg. 29
And that he believes in the Nephillim (demons came down and had relations with woman) which he talks about often in a lot of his videos – why I do not know.

Hi Debra…..I myself have studied the fallen Angels having relations with woman and must admit I have no other answer to that position on why the flood took place. iIIDo you have a topic noted down where I may read up on your take in this matter.

Chris

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

Deborah.

I was not going to get involved further regarding the issues John raised and the accusations against Jacob, but due to his postings on your blog, I decided to forward it through to Moriel for reply.

I was not going to come back regarding these issues with Jacob, but was asked by Jacob to post his reply to John’s accusations towards Jacob.
I also received an answer from Dave Royle in this regard and is as follow:

————————
Hi Chris

>> Thanks for this, I have not heard of the guy but he has some strange words to say about Jacob and some things I do not know about, for example the Lausanne council. I would not think that Moriel would have anything to do with that. I just wonder if this guy has anything to back up his insane accusations and criticism?

>> I have forwarded this to Jacob to see if there is a relationship between ourselves and Laussane and see if there is any statements on the various issues already on the web site. Of course a lot of his criticism comes from the fact hes a Calvinist (Jacobs Arminianism) but as we know modern day Armenianism and even Calvinism is miles from its originators.

>> Is that OK with you guys?
>> In Peace
>> Dave

——————
Jacob’s reply:

John Chingford, whoever he is, is plainly a babbling religious crackpot and a cheap mouthed hooligan if not an out and out liar.

> As with many of his sort of cessationist Calvinists, he is a mere ignoramus and a thug.

> Neither I or Moriel have had any association with Lausanne in over 15 years in part due to the ecumenical issue.
> Earlier this year I signed a statement opposing its ecumenical direction. Chingford is a sower of discord who characteristically does not know what he is even talking about . Please ask Chris to tell him I said so.

> Yes, I have been associated with brothers such as Chuck Smith although I have at times publicly disagreed with them, but I would never associate with an ignorant , spiritually deluded buffoon like John Chingford.

> Do not hesitate to forward him my comments or post them on his blog ( without my e mail address).

> Jacob Prasch

—————-

Regarding Rodger Oakland; with Jacob’s last visit here in SA he informed me that Rodger Oakland had gone wrong – this you are obviously free to believe or not to believe.

It is a pity that things have developed in this manner and I pray that the Lord will pardon this unnecessary dispute amongst us.

Myfanwy Brown

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

Personally, I am disgusted that Jacob Prasch calls John all those foul names!! I am sickened and angry!!

Why does JP get people to post on his behalf at DTW?? Why does he not man up and come and face John and Debs here on Deb’s blog?! How can a man like that rant and rave, a so called Christian leader!! He reminds me of some others that I know, if they can’t win the discussion they resort to insults and/or threats.

The true ‘ignoramus’ here is Jacob, since John C is NOT a Calvinist!! And John is nothing but a gentleman and he is certainly no liar.. methinks Jacob needs to take a long hard look in the mirror!!

Redeemed

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

It seems that two of the biggest obstacles to Biblical truth involve the tendency in human nature to make idols out of other humans and also to fear them more than God.

If we see error we have the responsibility to address it no matter whose toes it steps on. It takes courage and resolve to do that. It must be done out of a love for God’s truth and with no selfish motive. I can say with certainty that any comments I made regarding Mr. Prasch were not personal attacks but out of a heart of concern both for him and for those who trust him to deliver truth. I believe the same for others who have commented here as well as the author of this blog. I hold no animosity toward Mr. Prasch or Moriel, and have respected many of his teachings. Obviously he is extremely intelligent and gifted. Why would such a learned man need to resort to such vitrioilic rhetoric?

I read with a grieving heart the response given by Mr. Prasch to John Chingford’s comments. Mr. Chingford indicated he has tried numerous times to address the concerns he saw directly to Moriel and received no response. If one desires to be a good Berean, how can one turn a blind eye to the errors that were cited? Only the Lausanne comment was addressed. It takes a humble heart to be powerful in ministry because God hates pride.
If legitimate concerns are ignored or intercepted by hirelings, what does that say?

I was shocked to see the insults hurled at Mr. Chingford – such a response was not directed by the Holy Spirit, but rather of flesh offended. Such a response was not necessary or deserved to a brother in Christ. The name calling is absolutely appalling. Mr. Chingford lacks the resources and notoriaty of Moriel. If one peruses his blog it should be obvious that John is a student of the Word and a defender of the truth with no other agenda. He has no materials to sell, he gets no salary. He has no lofty credentials, but he trusts the Holy Spirit to reveal truth of the Word. God loves to use simple things and humble people. By the way, John staunchly opposes Calvinist/Reformed teaching.
He would be the first to say he is not above criticism and correction.

As for Chris, he declared that he would no longer participate in the discussion, then goes and tattles like a school boy.

John Chingford

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

Chris,

Where does Jacob and David get the idea that I am a Calvinist? Have you/they not read my blog. I make it perfectly clear that I am opposed to calvinist doctrine because of its preconceived Augustinian interpretation of the bible.

My blog (until recently) was very supportive of Jacob and his ministry believing it to be a valuable ministry for waking up the church. I chose to give him the benefit of the doubt despite his overly heavy handed method of exposing false teachers. It is only recently that I have said anything in opposition to him because I am very cautious to criticise someone of possibly being ecumenical until I have sufficient evidence. In fact, I still (as far as I can remember) have not written anything against him on my blog and chose not to until I received replies to my emails to him.

I wrote to Jacob and his other team members asking why Moriel were so supportive of Chuck Missler and KH. It was of serious concern of mine (in light of the clear worrying evidence that William Saunders has provided us about Chuck Missler) that Jacob associated with such a man. I wanted to know what his reasons were because I still wanted to give Jacob the benefit of the doubt.

Why is it that NONE of my emails were replied to? If Jacob says he doesn’t know who I am, then maybe it is because he somehow never saw any of my many emails or deleted them without reading (I give him the benefit that maybe he has too many emails to respond to them all). However, I did address the email as a real concern issue.

Please ask him if for his reasons why he never replied to any of my emails when I asked him about his association with Chuck Missler.

For all those who read this, let me remind you how we should respond as Christians to each other:

Colossians 4:5:
“Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.”

Eph 4:31-32:
“Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you”

Colin Ford

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

It is very, very sad that any Christian would use such rhetoric and name calling let alone a man of Jacob’s biblical knowledge.
Having said that, I am not surprised, I have read/heard other such similar outbursts from him before. People generally stoop to such methods when their position is indefensible.
I can’t understand why he would do it, we will all be accountable to God for every idle/careless word we speak Matthew 12.36.
He would certainly appear to be lacking in grace…

John Chingford

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

from Louise:

….. and must admit I have no other answer to that position on why the flood took place.

Hi Louise

There is a simple answer to why the flood took place. It is as follows:

“God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart”
Genesis 6:5-6

Chris

[Edited by DTW: This comment has been moved from “When will the Rapture Happen?“]

Please permit me for a final response.

Many who know Jacob would know that he would respond in this manner. I do not necessarily agree with the way in which he responds, but I can also understand his frustration in this regard as he gets a continuos stream of e-mails both positive and negative from all over the world. He does not have the time to permanently answer all of these e-mails due to his travels globally. I trust we can understand this.

He was accused of being part of endorsing Lausanne etcetera and not responding to John’s correspondence, hence my e-mails to Moriel to hear directly from them.

Accusations regarding his ties with Rodger Oakland, Lausanne etcetera were addressed, yet nobody seems to have acknowledged the fact that he has admitted to the fact that he disagrees with Lausanne and that he openly refutes errors by e.g. Chuck Smith and Rodger Oakland etcetera but the focus now has moved not to the content of his reply but rather the way in which he replied.

John, concerning Chuck Missler I am quite sure that that Jacob would do the same if he comes to hear of anything doctrinally or morally wrong. Maybe he has already done this and did not mention it in his reply as is the case with Chuck Smith and Rodger Oakland and so many others.

John if you have any further dispute regarding certain issues please go to Moriel’s website and e-mail Dave Royle I am sure he would take it up with you.

I have come to realise that in the world when someone as a third party gets involved in disputes between two persons it is the third party that gets nailed in the end by both opposing parties where the dispute originated. Admittedly I find exactly that this is also going that way fortunately from only one side at this stage.

Now again I am not putting Jacob on a pedestal and idolising him as it would seem the accusations are coming my way.

When I read: “As for Chris, he declared that he would no longer participate in the discussion, then goes and tattles like a school boy.”

I have to smile at this because this response is rather insulting and opposes the views regarding the way in which Jacob relied. You are doing the same.
As you seem to agree with John, to which I agree also, I need to quote John ” For all those who read this, let me remind you how we should respond as Christians to each other:

Colossians 4:5:
“Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.”

Eph 4:31-32:
“Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you”

This seems not to be the case with many responding on this blog especially Redeemed as is the example shows.

In a recent telephone conversation I had with someone who also places comments on this blog we discussed the development of things here and I decided not to carry on with these discussions because others see this as we not even agreeing with one another, yet we bunch together when we refute others, and it should not be so.

Now if you would see this as running away – so be it.

Again I say: It is a pity that things have developed in this manner and I pray that the Lord will pardon this unnecessary dispute amongst us.

Joe

It seems to me that neither John nor Jacob has ANYTHING GOOD to say about one another. Ad Hominen arguments will bring you nowhere. Please keep to the facts.

Christian-like it is definitely not!

Andy

It’s interesting that Jacob Prasch speaks against the pre-trib rapture, and yet supports everyone that believes it. I believe pre-trib because the antichrist is not revealed in Revelation 6 until the church is in heaven in Revelation 5.

William Saunders

Back when I was a researcher for Roger Oakland, Martin Hardy & myself personally confronted Jacob Prasch out in Phoenix, AZ at a conference Calvary Chapel Tri-Cities pastor John Higgins was holding in January 2011.

Since then we have noticed the “choice of words” Jacob uses when speaking about others. I noticed Jacob uses the word “delusional” a lot when speaking about others. He loves that word. One can do a cursory scan and see for yourself. Just Google – “prasch”+”delusional” and see for yourself.

Someone should start a Jacob Prasch Word Bank so we can see all the terms he uses when describing the Lord’s most precious creation.

In my opinion, Jacob Prasch’s choice of words when describing others reveals a level of arrogance like I have never seen in any other person who calls himself a Christian.

We all have pride in abundance and I will be the first to admit that in myself. I ask the Lord everyday to bring me to a place of humility as I see my own pride (after I asked the Lord to reveal my own pride, He was faithful to do so).

Pride is the only sin one can be in when describing it in others, so I say this in all humility.

I say with all seriousness that the words Jacob Prasch uses to describe others are indicative of something else.

Where does Jacob get the Biblical authority to say about anybody –

“a babbling religious crackpot and a cheap mouthed hooligan”

“an ignorant , spiritually deluded buffoon like John Chingford.”

I personally have no idea who John Chingford is and Jacob doesn’t either because Jacob stated “John Chingford, whoever he is…”

Since Jacob DOESN’T KNOW who John is, where does Jacob Prasch get any authority from The Word Of God to say those words to John Chingford?

And even if Jacob Prasch did know who John was, still where does Jacob get that authority?

Chris (whoever that person is) must seem it’s OK for Jacob to talk that way because Chris tries to “smooth over” what Jacob says by stating –

“Many who know Jacob would know that he would respond in this manner. I do not necessarily agree with the way in which he responds, but I can also understand his frustration in this regard as he gets a continuos stream of e-mails both positive and negative from all over the world. He does not have the time to permanently answer all of these e-mails due to his travels globally. I trust we can understand this.”

>”Many who know Jacob would know that he would respond in this manner…”

So the “MANY WHO KNOW” are OK with this? So Jacob’s words are his example to his followers?

>”…I can also understand his frustration…”

Frustration? Name calling is not frustration. Jacob is no better than anyone else and neither are we.

>”…I trust we can understand this.”

Understand what? Name calling?

Let’s imagine Jacob Prasch standing before a Holy God and the Lord rolls out what Jacob said about the Lord’s creation, John Chingford –

“a babbling religious crackpot and a cheap mouthed hooligan”

“an ignorant , spiritually deluded buffoon like John Chingford.”

What is Jacob planning on saying to the Lord at that moment?

Romans 1:5 – “By whom WE HAVE RECEIVED GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE to the faith among all nations, for His name”

We have received grace for obedience, not grace to say to people –

“a babbling religious crackpot and a cheap mouthed hooligan”

“an ignorant , spiritually deluded buffoon like John Chingford.”

What is Jacob Prasch thinking, and even worse what are his followers thinking by giving blatant sin a pass by “being understanding”?

Lord have mercy on us all.

Grace comes through humility –

James 4:6 – “But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

That grace is given for obedience –

Romans 1:5 – “By whom WE HAVE RECEIVED GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE to the faith among all nations, for His name”

That obedience is to ONLY love Jesus –

John 14:15 – “If ye love Me, keep My commandments.”

Humility, grace, love of Jesus.

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