London Olympic Games 2012 – Secret Logo, Illuminati Floodlights and Esoteric Mascots

Almost four years after the London 2012 Olympic Games Logo was launched to the public, Iran has threatened to boycott the Games and have made a formal compaint to the International Olympic Committee to have design changed.  They believe it is a pro-Israeli conspiracy as the logo when reshuffled spells ‘Zion’.  As there is an auspicious little dot in the middle of 20.12 that represents the dot on the i in ‘Zion’.

Little does Iran know that it’s not pro-Israeli but (pro-Illuminati Zionist) – two completely different things.

See video:

The Pyramid Shaped Floodlights

The design of the Olympic stadium is illuminated (pardon the pun) with pyramid shaped floodlights.  The pyramid is the main symbol for the Illuminate.  But to make it worse, they are not just pyramids, they include the pyramid with CAPSTONE and outline of an all-seeing eye is visible within the overall bulb pattern within the capston.  See video:  (please note I don’t endorse the song)

The Meaning of The Pyramid Capstone

The Egyptians did not crown “The Great Pyramid” with a capstone. The pyramid has been left unfinished for thousands of years. The back of every U.S. one dollar bill has an “incomplete” pyramid on it with the capstone floating and “unattached” above it.

The pyramid base represents mankind as incomplete and wanting.  The capstone represents the enlightened few, the Illuminati, who reign in power over the world and the masses. According to Biblical scripture, Satan is the god of this sinful world (2nd Corinthians 4:4), and deceeptively appears as an angel of light (2nd Corinthians 11:13,14).  The Bible teaches that Satan was previously, Lucifer (light bearer), one of the archangels in Heaven.  Lucifer rebelled against God, demanding equality and was cast down to the earth.

Satan is said to be a master deceiver and liar, and always appears in a deceptive form. Many of today’s top U.S. politicians are occult members, attending Satanic ceremonies annually at the Bohemian Grove in California. The occult is rich in symbols. The general public is generally unaware of the symbolism in corporate logos and monuments that blatantly mock the woeful ignorance of society at large.

When the capstone is attached to the pyramid and “illuminated” at the 2012 London Olympics, it will be a crowning celebration of the New World Order one-world-government victory. It is a celebration of the completion of Luciferic ascension.

“This present window of opportunity, during which a truly peaceful and interdependent world order might be built, will not be open for too long – We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order.”    – David Rockefeller speaking at the UN, Sept. 14, 1994

The Great Pyramid of Giza represents the great New World Order: A One World Government, One World Religion and One World Economy, which awaits its ultimate leader and world King.  The New World Order has been in the planning stages for thousands of years. The Great Pyramid awaits its completion when the capstone is set in place during the 2012 London Olympics. Light enters the body through the eye and the all-seeing eye represents Lucifer. —


Wenlock and Mandeville

Then we have the two most bizarre looking mascots ever, both with ONE eye.  Wenlock and Mandeville they are called.  They were designed specifically for their appeal to children (what a joke) and supposedly with the digital age in mind.  Apparently these 2 characters have caused much controversy and confusion since their launch.  Well they would cause controversy because their design is acually based on an OCCULT SYMBOL called a hieroglyphic ‘Monad’

The Monas Hieroglyphica (or Hieroglyphic Monad) is an esoteric symbol originally proposed by a Athanasius Kircher and expanded upon by John Dee, an Elizabethan Magus and Court Astrologer of Queen Elizabeth I of England.  This 16th century mystical symbol is the emblem for Azoth or the Philosopher’s Stone – the aim of alchemy.

Summary of the Monad:  “The Sun and the Moon of this Monad desire that the Elements in which the tenth proportion will flower, shall be separated, and this is done by the application of Fire.” 


Wenlock is male and has a little W at the top of his head and Mandeville is female with an M at the top of her head.  Now you ask, what are the letters W and M got to do with anything?  Well again the occult comes into action.

The Esoterics of the Letters M and W:

In the occult as the Sun is Male and Luna (Earth) is Female, and as Sun “sends forth seeds” and impregnates the Earth, which then grows the ‘myriads of thoughts’ from these “seeds of the Sun”.  Because of this occultists infer that M is the Male and W is the Woman.

M and W also have numbers associated with them and it’s gets very complicated, and I wont go into it, but let me tell you, it’s not good.

There seems to be occult imagery all over London, rainbows, and black and white freemasony squares that Menlock and Mandeville make the children in London walk over in the streets.  Also the characters making kids do salutes that look very similar to a Hitler type hand salute.


– I have no idea what is going to go down during these London 2012 Olympic Games, but what ever it is, it’s going to be very very evil.


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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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Paul (Continue in His Word)

At this time of the year, may I suggest that you put up an article “against” celebrating Christmas (like Ralph Ovadal’s piece and contrast it WITH another article “for” celebrating it (like John Rice piece
You could then move the comments related to christmas from this thread to the new one and leave it open for discussion.
If you do not feel like doing it you can delete this comment and just let the discussion continue here.


Puleeeeeeeeeze Paul, I do NOT worship Rome. I am absolutely OPPOSED to all false religions and preach against them. Because I celebrate Christmas I am not showing any allegience to Rome. I don’t know of any believer who observes Christmas who has any allegiance or complicity to Rome.

We have to pick our battles and on which hill to die. There are plenty of other battles which are much more uppermost in my mind and heart. Whether or not I celebrate Christmas does not save any soul. But when I take a stand against the false teaching of Rome and give the uncompromised Gospel, it DOES.


Paul, the days of the week have pagan origins:
Monday: “day of the moon,” referring to moon worship.
Tuesday: “Tiu’s day,” named for the Germanic god of war.
Wednesday: “Woden’s day,” after Woden, the chief Anglo-Saxon god.
Thursday: “Thors day,” after the Norse god of thunder.
Friday: “Freya’s day,” after the Teutonic goddess of love, beauty and fertility.
Saturday: “Saturn’s day,” after Saturn, a god in mythology.
Is it wrong for Christians to use calendars?

The dollar bill of the U.S. has Masonic/Babylonian insignia. Is it wrong for Christians to use this currency? Can’t money be used to honor God?

Paul (Continue in His Word)

This conversation about Christmas started when you posted (59) about the video of kids singing GOOD CHRISTIAN MEN REJOICE in relation to the baby you likened to the Anti-Christ. I then reacted (62) with my dismay why born again Christians would ever follow and endorse Rome with celebrating it. Then Redeemed reacted to my anguish with (71) and inviting me to read what John Rice wrote about Christmas. At that time I responded, but you took a leave from the internet, and my answer was never posted (I suppose I got lost). But I had not forgotten and I really wanted to reply to Redeemed.

Please go ahead and move the conversation under the General Conversation.

Paul (Continue in His Word)

Thanks for the advice. It is what I am trying to do. The article I posted suggests this

I also do not believe this question of Christmas is one which should provoke bitterness and division among God’s people any more than it should stir up contempt or pride. We surely should not use it as the measure of a brother’s righteousness or commitment to Christ. The celebration of Christmas by a Christian is not equivalent to attending a Catholic mass or committing those sins that the law of God
written on the heart condemns and the Word of God specifically prohibits. A SINCERE CHRISTIAN STRIVING TO HONOR CHRIST ON CHRISTMAS, NOT UNDERSTANDING THE THINGS PREVIOUSLY WRITTEN OF HERE, IS NOT A CRIMINAL TO BE SHUNNED BUT RATHER A BROTHER TO BE GENTLY, PATIENTLY ENLIGHTENED. The Christmas season should NOT be seen as a time to mock those sincere Christians who are clinging to that holiday anymore than it is the time to try to convince unbelievers regarding matters not yet seen by many believers.

That is what I am trying to do. To educate my brothers and sisters about the damage Christmas does to the cause of the Gospel by endorsing the grossest misrepresentation of Christianity ever, about the SNARE of Christmas (the so called “appropriate time to share the gospel” when the world is more “opened” to it). It is a great snare because is serves the cause of the devil so much.
My observation is that most christians are NOT educated about it by christian leaders (pastors) who watch more on their bottom line than on the uncompromising truth of the word of God. They are afraid of loosing people, of touching long cherished traditions, of offending people. So they compromise and let the people believe they are “celebrating the birth of Christ”, that after all it is about Christ, which is far from the truth. The truth is that the “Christ” celebrated on Christmas is NOT the Christ of the Bible. It is another Christ. It is actually many other Christs as the origins of it reveal.
I have to strike the right balance between sharing the truth without appearing intolerant or judgmental. You and Debs must know how hard it is, because oftentimes the truth hurts.

About brother Cloud, I love him and appreciate so much the work he is doing. The Lord has used his ministry a lot to help me and my family, and we are members of one of his supporting churches. But I must say he is KNOWINGLY compromising on the issue of Christmas. I don’t judge him. I judge his action of compromise and I dare say “hypocrisy” when it comes to the issue of Christmas.
I echo what two of his subscribers wrote to him :

“I am surprised Mr. Cloud, you strain gnats and filter out the many rotten poisons tied to CCM, and swallow camels tied to the pagan celebration of christmas. How can you do such a thing? Do you really not know what you are doing here?”

“I read of your complete hatred of the evils of Roman Catholicism — but you’re surprisingly ‘silent’ when in comes to the real ‘demon‘ in the room–CHRISTMAS. How you can rant against the ‘Charismatics’–but not so much a whimper against the abomination of the filthy dreamers who continue to push this ‘garbage’ of Jesus’ birthday on Dec. 25–as being ‘truth’

I believe he too is preoccupied about the amount of support he will loose among his supporters if he dares say the plain uncompromising truth about it.
Mammon is unfortunately THE other god at the altar of which so many in our generation have chosen to sacrifice the truth. “Ye cannot serve God and Mammon” Luke 16:13.

Another critical area where he compromises is the teaching about tithing and the New Testament believer.
And that concerns me, because “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump”


Hi Paul,

I appreciate your contributions here and I do not wish to contend on this issue. I reiterate what I said in # 94. Grace and peace to you.

Paul (Continue in His Word)

I agree we should not contend on this issue. But before we move on to something else, I would like to address a few things you said in #93:
>>I do NOT worship Rome.
>>Because I celebrate Christmas I am not showing any allegiance to >>Rome. I don’t know of any believer who observes Christmas who has >>any allegiance or complicity to Rome.

Please I have never insinuated nor implied that you (or any born again christian) who celebrates Christmas “worships Rome” or is showing any “allegiance to Rome” whatsoever.
What I have repeatedly said is that such a person is (1) following/endorsing/promoting Rome IN CELEBRATING IT, and (2) SENDING the (wrong) message to the billion Roman Catholics and the other billions of unsaved people that Rome and they worship/celebrate the same Christ. You have not addressed those two points. Please re-read my comments, and the article I posted as a comment. And please forgive me if I came across as insinuating that you “worship Rome” or show “allegiance to Rome”. Far it be from me my dear sister.

As you said, let us pick our battles. I think we have said enough, and a believer who is uneducated about Christmas who reads our conversation will learn a little bit more and have a better discernment about Christmas. So this conversation was not useless.
As for your comment #94, I will not say anything about it because the days of the week (or months of the year) or the currencies of our countries ARE NOT the same thing as Christmas. I would not go there.
Grace and peace to you too.

Paul (Continue in His Word)

I want to briefly address something you said in #89. it is no more about the event the whole world is celebrating this month (I don’t want even to name it because we have agreed not to go there anymore)
But it is about brother John Rice and the priorities of parents. If time permit, we could have a full conversation on the topic:

I am aware that Brother Rice’s family turned ecumenical. But to lay this at his doorstep is unfair. Maybe he spent too much time away from the family in his ministry – I don’t know the circumstances. Maybe his daughters made poor choices in mates. Do you have children? I do and as much as we trained them up they are not where we would like to see them spiritually.

First of all, I will correct my comment to say “the seeds were sown by their PARENTS compromise” instead of “by their FATHER’S compromise”

Now you say “maybe he spent too much time away from the family in his ministry”
If true, it would be a VERY SAD thing indeed. It ought not to be so.
I will be brief:
Man’s first priority is Mark 12:30
(Man’s “neighbor” is first of all his wife/husband, then their children, and only then the rest of the world)
Man’s second priority is Ephesians 5:25-29
Man’s third priority is their children.
Man’s fourth priority is his neighbor (i.e. carrying out the Great Commission to the whole world) Mark 12:31 and Matt 28:19-20
See following references, starting with our “father” Abraham:

Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Pro_22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Eph_6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Jos_24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Jesus said “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?” Mar 8:36
It could well be added as a corollary to this verse
“For what shall it profit a preacher, if he shall gain the whole world for Christ, and lose his own children/wife?”

Could we say that if parents (or a man) fail to win their children to Christ, they have failed (to some extent) before God, whatever their “apparent” success may be before men?

I could expound on those verses for pages upon pages, but I lack time now. But I believe the message from those passages is clear.

Now, I am a father of 5 very young children, and I ask you to pray for me that my priorities will be right. That I will win these children to the Lord and make them disciples of Jesus Christ.


Re: # 98

Paul what you ARE saying is the I am promoting Rome and sending a wrong message. Six of one and 1/2 a dozen of the other it seems to me.

I am not promoting Rome and in fact go AGAINST Rome by using Christmas as an OPPORTUNITY to EXPOSE Rome as a FALSE Gospel and instead give the uncompromised Gospel. I don’t think this is sending a wrong message to ANYONE! The Roman Catholics I know don’t consider Christiam “their” holiday and probably are not even aware of the origins. But they, like 99% of other people in society observe it in some way. It brings up the topic of Christ and one has the opportunity to share the TRUE Gospel.

I consider that honoring to the Lord and I have no conviction whatsoever about observing it.

As for you not addressing the pagan origins of other things in society that we readily accept I am sorry to say as charitably as possible, that is a cop out. It is a legitimate question.

I felt I just had to reply to your post. I find that many people (not all) are eager to debate the issue. I think we have had a reasonable discussion, but we are never going to agree. So let’s leave it at that. You are a brother in Christ and I respect your conviction.


Now regarding John R. Rice. He was a traveling preacher and like many others in those times it required theme to be away from home for periods of time. This was not because they put their calling over their family, but it was circumstances of the times.

I am sure Brother Rice would be the first to say he was not perfect. Brother Rice wrote a book on Family Life and his wife and daughters wrote a testimony of how he practiced what he preached.

Now I am not going to sit in judgment of Bro. Rice – he was a man of conviction, a soul-winner, a champion against Calvinism, ecumenism, and compromise of ANY kind. His life and works speak for themselves.

If he thought for a nanosecond that obsrving Christmas in a Christ-honoring way was wrong, I do believe that God would have pricked his conscience.

He condemns the pagan roots of the holiday and yet he found some redeeming value in observing it. I find that far better than taking a dogmatic and hard-line approach which can shut the door for opportunities to witness for Christ.

I stand by Dr. Rice – of course he had his faults, but I think he surely will hear the Lord say “Well done, good and faithful servant”. He definitely dedicated his life to the work of the Lord.

I think that one of the reasons he liked the Christmas season was because he was free to spend it with his family. I look forward to meeting this faithful servant in heaven. He and Dr. Ironside although somewhat different were cut from the same cloth in terms of their dedication to serving the Lord.

Paul (Continue in His Word)

Dear sister,
I have the greatest respect for Dr Rice and for all he did for the Lord. I’m am unworthy to even “unloose his shoe latches”. If only I could do a tiny fraction of what he did for the Lord!
The point of my post is that we should learn from the mistakes and “faults” of our predecessors so as not to repeat them. But men seem not to learn from history.
I am certain had brother Rice had the opportunity to see into the future a see how ALL his daughters are deceived and lost today, HE WOULD HAVE GIVEN UP ALL the traveling and ministering to win them to Christ and make them disciples of Christ and servants of the true Gospel. (Instead today they are deceived and deceiving others and serving the enemy of the one their father so faithfully loved and served) Of course we pray that his daughters will eventually come to Christ and be saved so as to meet their father in heaven, but what I mean is that if they die in their present condition, it is very likely they are unsaved.

This is THE mistake I am talking about:

It required theme to be away from home for periods of time. This was not because they put their calling over their family, but it was circumstances of the times.

I think that one of the reasons he liked the Christmas season was because he was free to spend it with his family

See all the verses I quoted above. I will just repeat on, and add another Scripture:

Joshua 24:15 But as for me AND MY HOUSE, WE will SERVE the LORD
Deut 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deut 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, AND WHEN THOU WALKEST BY THE WAY, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

According to the Bible, a servant of God ought to serve the Lord WITH his family (wife and children). THIS IS KEY. That was God’s plan since the garden of Eden.
You are a very mature christian, and I don’t need to say a thousand words for you to get my point.
It is not and it has never been God’s pattern that a servant of His gets away from his family for extended periods of time for the sake of ministry. Never. Never. That should be the EXCEPTION, and eventually very occasional. You server the Lord WITH your family. You take your family with you, or you don’t go. If your family cannot come with you, if you cannot take your family with you, I dare say: God is not sending you. (This may sound extreme, but it is the plain truth. Deut 6:7 AND WHEN THOU WALKEST BY THE WAY)
If not, be like Paul and Barnabas.

Unfortunately, how many servants of God today are still committing the same mistake?
Now, I am far from living what I am writing here. I know it is the truth and I keep reminding myself of it, and I strive towards that.
God help me. God help us.

Paul (Continue in His Word)

As for the issue of Christmas, you write:

I find that many people (not all) are eager to debate the issue.

After Debs moves this conversation somewhere else (General Conversation), and with her permission, I wish to continue debating this issue with those interested and addressing some of your points.
You may be

“using Christmas as an OPPORTUNITY to EXPOSE Rome as a FALSE Gospel and instead give the uncompromised Gospel.”

But MOST born again Christians don’t have the maturity nor the discernment you have, and will fall into the snare of Rome and do the contrary of what you say, i.e. UNWITTINGLY follow/endorse/promote Rome in observing it, and SEND that wrong message to the Catholics and to the world. Make no mistake, I use every opportunity to share the uncompromising gospel in this season and in every other season without celebrating Christmas.
Notice that I haven’t written of YOU (Redeemed) celebrating Christmas. I’ve repeatedly said SOMEONE, or A PERSON…
Our wall of separation with the world (Rome is the world) must be completely “waterproof”. If you give Satan (the world) an inch of your property, ultimately he will invade and possess all of it.

Think of the weak and feeble born again, blood bought believer…


Paul, I cannot stop the observance of the national holiday of Christmas. But I DO my best to set an example by doing my best to honor Christ by refusing the secular trappings and commercialism connected by a lost society. Also the false and fake “gospels” that abound. I feel I can better serve the Lord this way than by fully rejecting and abstaining from observing the holiday.

That is my choice based upon seeking the Lord.

Now regarding Bro. Rice’s situation. You seemed to totally disregard the book that he wrote and the testimonies of his wife and daughters that he practiced what he preached. Why they fell prey to ecumenical forces later in their lives I don’t think we can blame on him or his wife. Your children have not grown as yet and you have no way of knowing what path they will choose regardless of how diligent you are to teach them. I have grown children and I know how this works. I have seen them profess Christ as children and then grow spirtually cold in adulthood and through prayer we see them changing.

I don’t think we can say that Bro. Rice neglected his family. As I said, he lived before the days of jet travel that cuts down on commute time. It is very difficult to balance time when one is in the ministry.

Quite frankly, I believe there are MUCH more important issues of concern in the Body of Christ. I don’t think it is a bad witness to celebrate Christmas as we do and in fact does far more good than abstaining and burning bridges with those who might be open to hearing about the Lord. We can come across as self-righteous Pharisees in such situations and cause people to view us as oddballs. I know you are going to say that Christians are usually viewed as oddballs and aliens. I understand that. But the world could lump us together with the Jehovah Witnesses cult that does not celebrate holidays.

Again I say, the Bible says that we are to be in the world and not of the world. Each person has to determine what that means in their own spiritual walk.

I have dear friends who have opted out of celebrating Christmas and I fullyl respect that. And they respect my views on it. We have discussed it and come to different conclusions but we don’t judge one another as one view being more godly than the other. It is not a issue of divison. I say let’s dwell on false doctrine and those areas that affect salvation. I have another friend who is so dogmatic that she comes unglued if anyone wishes her a “Merry christmas”. She has to bristle up and declare that she doesn’t believe in Christmas and ysdayadayada. That does more harm than good.

So I hope you won’t continue to force this issue as it will do nothing more than detract from the basics of the faith. Grace and peace to you!


Paul, one last point. What of a situation where the husband wishes to celebrate Christmas in a godly way as I have described but the wife is adamantly opposed and wishes to abstain? To maintain peace in the home she submits and follows her husband’s wishes. Is it worth drawing battle lines in the home over this?
I say not. This is not a cut and dried issue.


@ Redeemed…your mention of the days of the week, the months, the money, Satanic symbols scattered throughout the world merely verifies the reality that we are “in the world,” living in a place where Satan is the “prince of this world.” These are things of which we have no control, but use in our daily lives. Jesus prayed, “I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” (John 17:14-17)

@Paul…I think that your choice of words is an issue in the above debate. Rather than using the phrase “unwittingly follow/endorse/promote Rome…” perhaps it would be best to use the phrase “fellowshipping” with the “unfruitful works of darkness” promoted by Rome and the subtilty of Satan and his schemes.

I am copy and pasting my letter to a dear one in Christ addressing these same issues. Please realize they are in response to an ongoing discussion. Sooo, if you don’t get the context, no worries…I still believe there is value to be found (maybe?). The articles mentioned in the letter are these and (use of either article is not an endorsement of any person, group, “ministry” or philosophy – informational only)
Dear (anyone)
It is hard to determine the “tone” or “heart” of a written piece sometimes. Please know, that any questions asked (and some of them are hard questions – which I have also had to answer myself) are merely that…questions…not accusations, judgments, condemnations or offense. Every year, as a Christian, I have pondered the “christ-mass” season. But last year, God called me to be more separate…culminating with a total break from the traditions of men and the myth of all things “Christ-related” to this season; after all…it is of “another Jesus.” So the questions and comments are just some of what has transpired in my heart and I wanted to share them with you. My desire is to do ONLY those things that would please the Father and bring Him glory, and perhaps even to edify a brother(?); even as I believe you are of the same desire.

I don’t have a problem remembering the birth of Christ and being thankful for His coming either…everyday…even on “Christ-mass”…but NOT celebrating it as his “birthday.” I actually think that Jesus was born at the time of the “feast of tabernacles” (perhaps) since His name Immanuel would represent such. But truly, the Bible does not indicate the time of his birth, nor that we should “be in remembrance” of it…or celebrate it.

It is, however, an un”holy” day in the Satanic world, whose origins pre-date Babylon, and aren’t we called to come out and “be ye separate?”

My concern wasn’t about Thanksgiving. Fact being, even though the Indians were pagans, and they brought the food…it was the Pilgrims who instituted that day of thanks…they were not joining in and celebrating a pagan celebration.

As far as the “Christian” forefathers…only God knows…(I don’t agree with his thinking there, nor with everything written in any article – my focus was on the celebration of “Christ-mass” only, and the Scriptures – minus all the window dressing added by any author other than Scripture used to support their viewpoint).

Birthday gifts…not why I sent the articles…FYI – I don’t agree with him on that either.

Your point about “pick and choose history sometimes as long as it favors you”…I totally agree…that is why my focus was on the “holiday” and the Scriptures and the reality that a pagan un”holy” day has been “Christianized,” or can we say that “christianity” was “paganized?”

You mention the author is Protestant “so he’s a lot closer to Rome than he thinks he is by his doctrine.” This is true, certainly…BUT…does that negate his observations and questions…which even he was able to see? He may not be aware and recognize that, but his message, I believe ought to be considered and pondered before the Lord in prayer.

How exactly does one “keep our motives in check during this season?” Jesus said, “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” (John 4:23-24). As I think about the “what” I do and the “why” I do them, I have found that there is nothing of spirit or of truth in this whole season. I do not believe we can “redeem” the pagan holidays…just as our church does not “redeem” Halloween with “God-focused” thankful, “harvest festivals.” But we celebrate the false “Christ” holiday…isn’t this applying a double-standard? I don’t believe the only problems are the “selfishness and greed”…but something very sinister…how can we “attach” Jesus to this day? Satan’s desire is to be worshiped as God (Isaiah 14:12-15)…has he not pulled this off at “Christ-mass” almost ALL around the world and amongst almost ALL people? Ought we not rather ask…
“for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore, come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (23 Cor. 6:14-7:1) Are we not commanded to “have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. (Eph. 5:11)?

I actually have been asking the Lord, “what does that mean for my life in relation to You;” coming out, being separate, touching not the unclean thing, cleansing myself from all filthiness of the flesh and of the spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God…and He is so faithful to answer!

“Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain;: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not….(Jer. 10:3,4) We may not “worship” the trees, but does this not speak of our “christ-mass” customs…which have been…learned and adopted from the pagans? And can you imagine…churches…actually bringing in the trees with all the “trappings”…and the “idols” in?

“He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than they do. Then he brought me to the floor of the gate of the LORD’S house which was towards the north; and behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that these. And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD’S house, and behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD , between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces towards the east; and they worshipped the sun towards the east.” (Ezekiel 8:13-16)

If the Lord was very much not pleased and in fact infuriated about a people called by His name “weeping for” and “worshipping” Tammuz…what does He think about a people called by His name “worshipping” Tammuz disguised as Jesus – putting His holy name to a demon? I think He is quite grieved…but as we learn the truth…we are without excuse. Since we agree that the Bible is our guide for “faith and practice”…where does this practice come from?…Can it be justified? It is not biblical. Jesus commanded us to remember His death til His coming. The celebration of His birth is silent, as is the teaching and traditions of the apostles. In “Christianity” (Catholicism) it is true, that the first of such “Christian” celebration was instituted centuries after Christ by “christianizing” the pagan ritual worship of the “sun god,” by Rome. (I thought WE were separate from Rome; yet we fellowship with Rome?). Is this practice holy? Can it be consecrated unto God? What would the apostles think of such a thing…Paul or John who exhorted, “Little children, keep yourselves from idols.” (1 Jn. 5:21)

The priests of God…worshipping Tammuz (Baal, Bel…whatever you want to call him)…in the temple! And yet, who are we? “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, peculiar people, that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul;” (1 Peter 2:9-11)

“Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ya are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. (Gal. 4:3-11) Has this “royal priesthood” unwittingly fallen for the subtilty and cunning deceit of the enemy of our souls?


I would like to finish this discussion with something that John R. Rice write just days before his death. Oh that we had men of his stature today.

Dr. Rice bared his soul winner’s heart in this moving message — a CHRISTMAS letter dictated to his friends a few days before his death — when he wrote: “I still, from my armchair, preach in great revival campaigns. I still vision hundreds walking the aisles to accept Christ. I still feel hot tears for the lost. I still see God working miracles. Oh, how I long to see great revivals, to hear about revival crowds once again! I WANT NO CHRISTMAS WITHOUT A BURDEN FOR LOST SOULS, A MESSAGE FOR SINNERS, WITHOUT A BURDEN FOR LOST SOULS, A HEART TO BRING IN THE LOST SHEEP SO DEAR TO THE SHEPHERD, THE SINNING SOULS FOR WHOM CHRIST DIED. tMAY FOOD BE TASTELESS, AND MUSIC A DISCORD, AND CHRISTMAS A FARCE IF I FORGET THE DYING MILLIONS TO WHOM I AM DEBTOR a farce IF THIS FIRE IN MY BONES DOES NOT STILL FLAME! Not till I die or not till Jesus comes, will I ever be eased of this burden, these tears, this toil to save souls.” Yes — that is the beat of a soul winner’s heart!

That was not just Christmas season sentimentality. It was the overflow of a bleeding, broken heart for the lost which had been constrained and conquered by this terrible truth: “If there is a place of eternal torment where damned souls cry in vain for water amid the flames they cannot escape forever, it is the most alarming and terrifying fact in the universe! The very possibility that such a doom may await a sinner is so shocking that no other question can compare with its importance. How can today’s feasting or hunger, clothing or nakedness, honor or infamy, pleasure or pain compare in importance with a million years of pain, torment of body, mind and conscience?”

Adrian Matthews

” I have no idea what is going to go down during these London 2012 Olympic Games, but what ever it is, it’s going to be very very evil.”

…like millions of people throughout the world joining in two great endeavours, like disabled people, God’s people every bit as precious to him as anyone else, being feted in exactly the same way as able bodied athletes – except in a few places like the USA, but that was the fault mainly of NBC which gave such miserly coverage, not of the American people themselves – like tens of thousands of welcomers exuding goodwill. I could go on, but you get my drift, I’m sure.

Wenlock and Mandeville were stupid aberrations that failed to sell, and the logo was much unloved, hardly the stuff of an all-powerful international conspiracy.

The games could fairly be criticised for too big a presence of big business, and McDonalds being the only food outlet was particularly bizarre. It could be argued also that it cost too much, but it did provid employment in a time of recession, gave a moral boost to a country hitting hard times and has regenerated a massive area of London which never recovered from what the Luftwaffe did to it 65 years ago.

There are plenty of evil things happening in the world, including in the UK, gross poverty, crime, breakdown of family life, malicious politicians and more besides, but people who abuse the Gospel by pressing it into the service of outlandish conspiracy theories are (albeit unwittingly) its enemies. They only blunt its message. They allow those opposed to it to dismiss it as a set of ridiculous fairy stories, and make the undecided run a mile.

Have your conspiracy theories if you want, but don’t claim Divine inspiration for them.

Paul (Continue in His Word)


I think that your choice of words is an issue in the above debate. Rather than using the phrase “unwittingly follow/endorse/promote Rome…” perhaps it would be best to use the phrase “fellowshipping” with the “unfruitful works of darkness” promoted by Rome and the subtilty of Satan and his schemes.

Yes, I am guilty of trying to be politically correct. You have to understand that I am writing in a conversation with one of the most gracious believer I have ever “met”. (I’m talking about Marion). And I have a reputation of being oftentimes cut and dried in my communications. I do not want to hurt my sister, or to come across as judgmental, I want to speak the truth in love. Obviously I inserted the word “unwittingly” just to try to be more gracious, even as Redeemed is gracious to me. Yet the truth remains the truth. If I was communicating with someone else, you can be sure I would have been more straightforward.
What you say about the days of the week or the currency or all the other “things” of this Satan-controlled world is very simple and the very truth: Do we have the choice or not? That is the question.
I take for example a believer living in muslim controlled country like Egypt, where I think the statutory weekend is friday-saturday and not saturday-sunday as in most other countries. So the work week is Sunday-Thursday. What will a believer do? Not go to work on Sunday because it is the Lord’s Day? Of course not. Will they not arrange themselves to worship the Lord in Spirit and in Truth during their statutory weekend? Of course yes.(By the way, I am not a legalistic. We are not under the law, and the Lord’s Day is not a kind of Sabbath à la Old Testament).

Thanks for sharing that letter which hits the nail even harder on the truth about Christmas, ans as you say “as we learn the truth…we are without excuse”. you found the right words to put it, seasoned with grace.

I must say that I am very sick as I witness the “circus” (sorry for the word) of Christmas at the IFB church my family attend. But (to the best of my knowledge) all other places in town are either fully or almost completely leavened.
Where shall we go?
What shall we do Lord while you tarry and we witness day by day the collapse of Biblical Christianity?
What shall we do?


Adrian, if you could not see the occultic overtones that were so evident at this event then you need new glasses. This website is NOT into conspiracy theories and if you spent some time here you would realize that.


Dear brother Paul, I hear your love of the truth and I truly respect that. I think I share your desire to honor the Lord also. You have been gracious and I hope that I have reciprocated.

I too despise the carnival atmosphere of Christmas, the partying, etc. but there will be no such nonsense in our home. It will focus on remembering the Lord’s wonderful and miraculous birth and some quality family time.

I know that JRR would throw a fit if he could see some of the hijinks and compromise in the IFB church in our day. But there are still some pastors in small churches who are still sharing the Gospel, teaching the Word and tending their flocks. They are nondescript humble servants who just obey the Lord and rightly divide the Word and faithfully disciple. There is a remnant.

May the Lord bless you and your family.

Paul (Continue in His Word)

Thanks Redeemed. May the Lord bless you as well and your family as you come together in this end of year holiday season.

My comment #110 was actually addressed to Marion in response to her comment #106 as you must have understood. It should have started with “@Marion” and not “@Redeemed”.
Also in the same comment I mistakenly wrote “(I’m talking about Marion)”. It should have been “(I’m talking about Redeemed)”


Two more very interesting articles I came across today. Worth pondering.

(not an endorsement of any site)

Kind words, Paul…to God be the glory alone!


Marion, I do so appreciate your no nonsense comments and respect your honesty and love for the truth.

Any truth from Barbara Aho at the links you cited is tainted by her antisemitic views. I would not recommend that anyone visit her site. I don’t want to offend you, but I felt that this caution needed to be stated.


Redeemed…Thank you to you, for your kind words (to God be the glory!)
…is the Beardsley site an Aho site? If so, I had no idea. This is why “use of any site is not an endorsement of any person, group ‘ministry’ or philosophy – informational only).” To be honest, we can even find the truth related to the “holidays and trappings” on the pagan and witchcraft sites. When the truth is revealed, it is true, no matter the source; although we must be VERY careful, remembering that we know not the hearts of those who inform, and that they are not necessarily “brethren.” To disregard the Aho site because of anti-seminitism (which I agree we must reject) means we can gather information from no where…

So, I’m guessing you didn’t even read the GOOD information in those links because of her other error? That’s a shame!

Those links stated above deliver much food for thought for those who are seeking to honor the Lord in all their ways. Truth is, all our comments, opinions, thoughts, motives, regardless of how pure we desire them to be, or even think them to be…are tainted as well. In no way, should we accept another’s words, comments, opinions as utter truth. They cannot be…save for one…Jesus! We are not to be gullible, blindly swallowing whatever is dished up as “truth” or “Christian teaching;” always filtering the words in our world, wherever they may be found through the filter of the Word of God.

Quite honestly, even pagans can tell the truth…i.e. “the sky is blue,” even about “christ-mass”…in fact, they fully understand it and are quite amused by “Christian’s” enthusiastic embrace of the same! We know many a false teacher can deliver a “good” biblical message, with biblical “statements of faith,” causing some difficulty in ferreting out the “really good imposters.” AND they happen to have very good information related to the “apostasy” (while being immersed in it themselves) which is beneficial to us and we can use…as long as we remember…they are the enemy of our Lord Jesus Christ. Do we not gather information from “the news”, the internet…etc? We know not who people are or what they believe…but from the Word of God we do know this…that there are “few there be that find it”…the strait gate and the narrow way; there are MANY of “them.”

You stated, “Any truth from Barbara Aho at the links you cited is tainted by her antisemitic views.” Certainly caution is always advised, BUT…I disagree in this…the “truth” is not “tainted.” What is corrupt is her anti-semitic views…she also has some other very strange ideas. However the above links merely put together a concise examination of the corrupt origins of “christ-mass”, the “traditions” and of special interest, the unbiblical messages in the popular “seasonal ‘christian’ music.”

Those 2 links on that particular site…I DO recommend…for information…and a challenge to think about “what are we doing, why are we doing it, and from where does it come?…if not from the Word of God. I invite you, Redeemed to examine the information there, and then comment.

“Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.” (Prov. 27:17)
PS…I’m not offended.

John Chingford

@ Redeemed:

Hi Redeemed

Where do the links from Marion mention Barbara Aho as the author? I have tried to find mention of BA but cannot trace anything. Is it because you just happen to know that J Beard and rapidnet are linked to BA?

Paul (Continue in His Word)


Who is this Tracy who runs
I visited her web site and read some interesting truths she had to say, but I quickly noticed 3 warning signs:
1. Her Sabbath keeping
2. Her anti pre-trib (don’t know if she is post-trib, mid-trib or whatever else)
3. Her anti Dispensationalism. Also she caricatures Dispensationalism and attribute to it some things that I don’t believe (like the Church age saints reigning in a heavenly City above the earthly Jerusalem during the Millenium, while Jesus is reigning on earth with the saved Jews of the Tribulation…)

Is she sound?


@ John Chingford:

Oh boy! Here I sit with egg all over my face. Thank you for pointing out my mistake. That is not Aho’s site and I don’t have any idea if there is a connection. I will just chalk it up to a senior moment and I have the gray hair to prove it! :-)


Marion, please see my comment to Joh regardingn the site. I am truly sorry – I got confused. I am still peeling the egg off my face.

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