Biblical Holy Spirit vs. Unholy Spirit of Fire

unholy kundalini demon of fireHoly Spirit vs. Filthy Spirit of Fire, the calling down of Fire from heaven over a congregation, or praying Fire over someone is the norm in the church today. It has come to  resemble the early heretic Gnostic churches. Religious ecstasy (or Kundalini) was to be found in the mystery religions of the first century A.D. Back when the Corinth church seemed to be a hub of pagan Gnostic knowledge and ran rampant in unscriptural and immoral practices; the Greek mystery religions had prophets who babbled in unknown tongues which were caused by a Kundalini awakening.

Below is a table explaining the differences between The Biblical Holy Spirit compared to The Kundalini unholy spirit that masquerades as the Biblical Holy Spirit.  This table is exhaustive and contains everything you need to know:

Holy Spirit unholy kundalini demon of fire

Holy Spirit

Kundalini Unholy Spirit of Fire

Who is the Holy Spirit?

Who is the Kundalini unholy spirit?

  • The Holy Spirit is not a force or a power, He is God, the third Person of the Godhead.  (1 Corinthians 3:16, John 14:26)
  • The Holy Spirit is a divine person, a being with a mind, emotions, and a will. (1 Corinthians 2:10; Ephesians 4:30; 1 Corinthians 12:7-11)
  • The Holy Spirit is also omnipresence. (Psalm 139:7-8)
  • The Holy Spirit is omniscience. (1 Corinthians 2:10-11)
  • The Holy Spirit intercedes for us when we can’t pray. (Romans 8:26-27)
  • The Holy Spirit is our Helper, our Comforter and our Counsellor (John 14:16,26; 15:26)
  • The Holy Spirit will guide us and lead us into all Truth according to Biblical scripture. (John 16:12)
    • There is no extra-biblical revelation from the Holy Spirit.
  • A crucial part of the truth the Holy Spirit reveals is that Jesus is who He said He is. (John 15:26; 1 Corinthians 12:3)
    • The Holy Spirit convinces us of Jesus Christ’s deity and incarnation, that He is the Messiah.
    • He gives glory to Christ in all things.  (John 16:14)
  • The Holy Spirit’s role is that of gift-giver. (Corinthians 12)
  • The Holy Spirit is also the fruit producer in our lives. (Galatians 5:22-23)
  • An Esoteric description: Kundalini is a serpent goddess who lies asleep at the base of the human spine, coiled around the 1st Chakra, 3½ times.
  • The demons name is Kundalini Shakti, and ‘she’ represents the unfolding of the divine Shakti energy or Serpent Fire.
  • Kundalini is supposedly the energizing potential of life itself, a living goddess who enlivens all things.
    • It is Kundalini who creates the universe and knows Its Self as Creator.
    • Kundalini has been called “the face of God.”
  • After being awakened, Kundalini will be able to remove the knots of the major chakras, cleanse, open and develop the chakras until they are in fully blooming lotus forms – this to attain Yoga*
    • *Yoga (Enlightenment) refers to the different spiritual paths that aim for Yoga (union with Divine) – Religious ecstasy.

How do we receive the Holy Spirit

How do we get this unholy spirit?

  • We receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Saviour. (1 Corinthians 12:13)
  • We receive the Holy Spirit by simply receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour (John 3:5-16)


** Through the false ‘Baptism of the unholy Spirit’.** The calling down of Fire (Serpent Fire).

** Being filled with the Unholy Ghost by Fire.

  • A Shaktipat is where one person’s kundalini is awakened by another who already has the experience.
  • Shaktipat only raises the kundalini temporarily but the demonic transference has taken place.
    • This is what is going on in the churches;  Kundalini is being transferred from one person to another – by blowing on someone, through baptismal water, laying on of hands, even holding ones hand over someone, but not touching them can begin a Shaktipat, etc.
    • Kundalini can also awaken spontaneously, for no obvious reason or triggered by intense personal experiences such as accidents, near death experiences, childbirth, emotional trauma, extreme mental stress, and so on -this is solely dependent on that ‘doctrines of demons’ one has been dabbling in.

Are there any happenings that go with the filling of the Holy Spirit?

Are there any feelings or happenings that go with this filling of the unholy spirit?

  • No, the evidence of a genuine salvation is you are now not controlled by your sinful nature but by the Holy Spirit. (Romans 8:9)
  • Chastisement by the Holy Spirit when we sin to repent of our sin and not sin again. (Hebrews 12:6-7; Hebrews 12:8)
  • Evidence of being born again is:
    • Obeying scripture, God’s commandments.  (1 John 2:5)
    • Respecting God’s pronouncements as authoritative in your life. Jesus Christ is your Lord and Saviour. (1 John 1:8)
    • No more love for the world. (1 John 2:15)
    • Living in daily awareness that Jesus Christ will return for His own! (1 John 3:2-3)
    • You are sinning less now than when you first made a profession of faith in Christ. You hate sinning.  (1 John 3:9)
    • Love for other believers in Jesus Christ. (1 John 3:14)
    • Praying and having prayers answered. (1 John 3:22)
    • Sharp Discernment as you find it easy to sort out the claims of various religions, etc. (1 John 4:1)
    • You have a conscious awareness that the Holy Spirit of God lives in you. He teaches you things from the Scriptures on a regular basis. (1 John 4:13)
  • You speak in tongues (gibberish).
  • Involuntary jerks, tremors, shaking, convulsing, crawling sensations.
  • Energy rushes like streams of fire or feelings of electricity circulating the body.
  • Moderate heat or Intense heat (sweating) or cold as ice, especially as energy is experienced passing through the chakras.
  • Visions seen or sounds heard, ESP – clairvoyance.
  • Trance-like and altered states of consciousness
  • Uncontrollable laughter or uncontrollable weeping.
  • Bliss, feelings of infinite love and universal connectivity, transcendent awareness.
  • Posture becomes fixed, you become paralyzed.
  • Utter sounds like those of animals, birds, frogs or of a lion or like those of jackals, dogs and tigers…
  • Intoxicated, your steps fall like one is drunk, speech is slurred as if drunk and and you are unable to do any other work.
  • You see Divine visions – angels of light, another ‘Jesus’
  • Future unfolds its secrets to you, you learn secrets supposedly from God.
  • The unholy spirit gives you unbiblical ‘hidden’ meaning of scriptures.

What does ‘Walking in the Spirit’ mean?.  What does being “Filled by the Holy Spirit’ mean?

What happens when we have opened our Third Eye? (6th Chakra)

  • The Filling of the Holy Spirit is an ongoing process in the Christian life as we grow in Holiness.  Also known as to “walk in the Spirit; It is to follow the Holy Spirit’s leading.
  • It is essential to “walk with” the Holy Spirit, allowing Him to guide your steps and conform your mind. (Ephesians 4:1; Philippians 1:27)
  • The arousing of kundalini is said by some to be the one and only way of attaining Divine Wisdom. (Genesis 3:4-5)
    • Self-Realization is said to be equal to Divine Wisdom or Gnosis or what amounts to the same thing: self-knowledge-(knowing that ‘I am a god’).
  • New knowledge is brought into the church, as self proclaimed apostles and prophets pronounce, EXTRA unbiblical revelations and unbiblical prophetic utterances.

Evidence or Signs:

False Signs and Wonders:

  • Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2)
  • If we need healing or deliverance we are to ask HIM DIRECTLY through prayer and He will heal us.
    • We do not need to go to men with so called ‘gifts of healing’ when we can approach Jesus Christ directly.
    • Yes we can have others pray for us (genuine Christians that is).
    • We pray in faith, but faith means that we are to trust God. We trust Him to do what is best and to know what is best. (Romans 8:28)
    • Suffering is part of life for both the unbeliever and the believer. For the believer it is often used by God in the development and maturing of our faith.  (Philippians 3:10)
    • Paul the apostle prayed to have his “thorn in the flesh” removed, but God said, “No” because He wanted Paul to understand that for in Paul’s weakness, God’s strength is made perfect. (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).
    • Do not conclude that because you have not been healed that you have an absence of faith, lack faith or have some secret sin that prevents your healing.
  • The Kundalini unholy spirit is a show and tell of signs and wonders as seen above.
  • Kundalini is a powerful healing force and will in a ‘counterfeit’ way heal you from any ailments/diseases or deliver you from drugs/alcoholism, etc.
    • You will usually feel heat, electricity, or ice when the satanic healing takes place.
  • Can Satan heal?  Of course he can! See this article for full explanation:

This Kundalini spirit is found in all religions across the world just under different names:

kundalini - unholy spirit

  • The ancient Egyptians called kundalini power Ra, who is symbolized as the Sun because the Sun is the source of kundalini energy.
  • In Islam kundalini power is known as Salaat. Called the Swaying Zikr and Whirling Dervish.
  • The early Gnostics, like Pythagorus referred to the concept as ‘Pneuma’
  • Hippocrates was aware of it as well; he referred to it as ‘vis medicatrix naturae’.
  • Religious studies also note parallels in Quakerism and Shakerism.
  • The Hebrews of ruach causing the Judaic Shuckling or (torso-rocking prayer)
  • The quiverings of the Eastern Orthodox Hesychast.
  • The Chinese movements of Tai Chi or ki.
  • The ecstatic Shamanistic dance,
  • The Bushmen dance the Ntum trance dance.
  • The Tibetan Buddhist tummo heat as practised by Milarepa,
  • Japan‘s Aum Shinrikyo group
  • The Mexican Huichols call it kupuri,
  • The Dakota Indians speak of wakan;
  • The African Sotho of moya;
  • The Bantu of nzmbi;
  • The Australians of joja;
  • Indonesian know of petara;
  • The Eskimos of quaumaneq.

False ‘unholy spirit fire in action masquerading as Holy Spirit:

unholy kundalini demon of fire unholy kundalini demon of fire unholy kundalini demon of fire
unholy kundalini demon of fire




Montanism - unholy spirit

Montanism was an early Gnostic so called Christian movement of the late 2nd century, later referred to by the name of its founder, Montanus, but originally known by its adherents as the New Prophecy (or ‘The Phyrgian Heresy’) . The heretical movement spread rapidly to other regions in the Roman Empire at a time before Christianity was generally tolerated or legal. It persisted in some isolated places into the 6th century.

It was a prophetic movement that called for a reliance on the spontaneity of the Holy Spirit and spoke extra biblical revelation.  Parallels have been made between Montanism and modern day movements such as the charismatic movement, and the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). [1]

As the name “New Prophecy” implied, Montanism was a movement focused around prophecy, specifically those of the movement’s founders which were believed to contain the Holy Spirit’s revelation for the present age.[2] New Prophecy departed from Church tradition as described by Eusebius of Caesarea [3]: “And he [Montanus] became beside himself, and being suddenly in a sort of frenzy and ecstasy, he raved, and began to babble and utter strange things, prophesying in a manner contrary to the constant custom of the Church handed down by tradition from the beginning.”[4]

The Montanist prophets did not speak as messengers of God but were described as possessed by God while being unable to resist. Montanists believed that the new prophecies superseded and fulfilled the doctrines proclaimed by the Apostles.[5]  Thus, they were seen as false prophets because they acted irrationally and were not in control of their senses.[6]

The Roman Catholic unholy spirit of FIRE

The church has gone so far with this unholy fire that it has literally ENGULFED the entire church. You need to be permanently on FIRE for God according to the powers that be (TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network), God TV, Rodney Howard-Browne, Kenneth Copeland, Angus Buchan, Rick Joyner, Ray McCauley, Cindy Jacobs, Deon Hockey, Kim Clement, Marc Bredenkamp, Leon du Preez, Harold Weitsz, et al.) as they spell out their incantation and throw FIRE, FIRE, and more FIRE in the congregations direction.  Those in the congregation who have experienced this religious ecstasy want more, and those who have not experienced it, want to experience it because they believe this is the Holy Spirit as work.

Unholy Spirit of FireUnholy Spirit of FireThe ‘Heart of God is now on FIRE and everyone is pushed in this direction by the church to get to know ‘God’s heart‘.  What they don’t tell you is that this ‘Heart of God’ is the Roman Catholic Sacred Heart of Jesus, and it is also the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

heart of fire - unholy spirit

The church as it currently stands is being shoved towards pagan ROME at a rapid speed. But in order for Pentecostals and Charismatics to accept Roman Catholicism they would first have to accept the ‘spirit‘ by which it operates. Rome’s EVANGELIZATION of non-Catholics started decades ago, and their hard labour has paid off.  Just as the ancient Egyptians viewed Kundalini as being Ra‘ who is symbolized as the sun because the sun is the source of kundalini energy. So does the Roman Catholic Church who, worships the Sun god Mithra (incarnation of Ra).

Let’s have a look and see that the bible says about “fire called down from heaven” in the New Testament.

Revelation 13:13 “he [antichrist] doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,”

G4442 πῦρ pur (pïr’) n.
{literally or figuratively}

This fire is spiritual and literal. In the last days, the antichrist, the false Church, and it’s followers call down spiritual FIRE from heaven onto earth – this fire is satanic, it’s captures your soul with fake love and false manifestations that capture your mind. The antichrist will also bring down real fire from heaven in the sight of me to deceive them.

Was fire ever called down from heaven when Jesus walked the earth?  Nope, how do we know? Well let’s go to God’s Word…look at this:

During Jesus’ earthly ministry, the disciples James and John wanted to call down fire from heaven in judgment of a Samaritan village that did not welcome the Lord Jesus Christ.  What did Jesus Christ say to his disciples?

Luke 9:55- “But He turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

As we can clearly see from the bible, this spirit is from Satan, and is NOT the Holy Spirit.  Jesus had not come “to condemn the world, but to save the world” (John 3:17)

This ‘fire that is called down from heaven’ is from Satan, another spirit, an unholy spirit – that condemns you.

[Edited 5 Oct 2018:  I’ve added this to explain the above in more detail because of this comment: 2018/10/05 at 3:17 pm:

Please note I am not saying that God did not ever use fire to destroy wickedness.

In the verses Luke 9:54-56 Jesus rebukes his disciples for trying to call down fire from heaven, why?  Jesus would never rebuke Elijah for what he did in calling down fire to destroy wickedness, if He did He would be rebuking the Father Himself as God rained fire and brimstone down on Sodom and Gomorrah and surrounding towns. One needs to compare OT to NT. Different dispensations.

What do the words “You know not what manner of spirit you are of.” mean?  James and John in all their faithful zeal to Jesus Christ thought they were doing a good thing by wanting to destroy the wicked town that rejected Jesus by doing as Elijah did when he called down fire under OT Law. However the Apostles in training as I call them (Peter, James, John) had just recently seen Moses and Elias speaking with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration. So James and John, thinking they could copy Elijah, where wrong in their thinking, and were in fact sinning when they wanted to call down fire, because they did not understand and they were under grace and Jesus didn’t operate like that. That is why Jesus rebuked them.

Anyone who wants to call down fire (be it physical fire or spiritual fire to destroy the soul) in this age of grace has a spirit of vengeance and it’s not from God.

This fire is a counterfeit. It’s a fire that leads to the UNITY of all religions, the joining of Protestant and Catholic, a co-reformation – into the false Christian church we have today. ]

2018: Year of the Holy Ghost and Fire by Kenneth Copeland

Please read the full comment where I give a transcript from Kenneth Copeland on what ‘burning the chaff’ means in his dictionary.

Charles Spurgeon

And if you think calling down fire is limited to only Charismatics?  Think again.  The so called ‘Prince of Preachers’ of Calvinism, Charles Spurgeon himself called down demonic Kunalini fire.

Holy Fire / Divine Fire / Heart of Flame

Holy Fire

Charles Spurgeon: “The church needs fire to quicken her ministers, to give zeal and energy to all her members. Having this fire, she burns her way to success! The world meets her with the fire of firewood, but she confronts the world with the fire of kindling spirits, and of souls aglow with the love of Jesus Christ. She trusts not to the wit, and eloquence, and wisdom of her preachers, but to the divine fire which clothes them with energy! She knows that men are irresistible when they are filled with hallowed enthusiasm sent from God. She trusts therefore in this, and her cry is, “Come, Holy Fire, abide upon our pastors and teachers! Rest upon every one of us!” —The Superlative Excellence of the Holy Spirit #574

Divine Fire

Charles Spurgeon: “Brothers, I beseech you keep to the old gospel, and let your souls be filled with it, and then may you be set on fire with it! When the wick is saturated, let the flame be applied. Fire from Heaven is still the necessity of the age. They call it “go”, and there is nothing which goes like it; for when fire once starts upon a vast prairie or forest, all that is dry and withered must disappear before its terrible advance. May God Himself, who is a consuming fire, ever burn in you as in the bush at Horeb! All other things being equal, that man will do most who has most of the Divine fire.” — How to Meet the Evils of the Age Chapter 4

Occult teaching on Holy fire and Divine fire

Theosophy: “In a certain sense, the task before the disciple is the evocation of the “divine fire, Kundalini, and the infusion of the principle of Will in him by that divine fire; the golden light mingling with the red flame, to produce the colour of the mystic rose. The fiery aspiration of the disciple evokes the higher celestial fire, and the two blend in one, the holy fire which shall thereafter illumine and enkindle that disciple’s heart and life and every act.” –— The Theosophical Quarterly Volumes 17-18  1919 edited by Clement Acton Griscom pg. 226,

Heart of Flame (see Roman Catholic Heart of Fire above)

Spurgeon: “But we bless God that there are not so many of that sort, now, and we pray that the race may become quite extinct—and that every pulpit may be filled with a man who has a tongue of fire and a heart of flame and who shuns not to declare the whole counsel of God, neither seeking the smiles of men nor dreading their frowns!” — The Dumb Singing #2625

Occult teaching on Heart of Flame

Universal Brotherhood (Theosophical teachings):”Then One spoke – He of the mighty arm – He of the eye of power. And He inquired (speaking calm and low, and looking round on all the gathered throng) who would willing go into the world of flesh – to waken all the souls that now could hear, and teach to them the meaning high, sublime, of life; show them the Movement – flowing onward like a river vast, with but one source and end; teach them how to enter on that tide, and moving with Love – and for this Fire Divine in thee thou hast been called ‘The Heart of Flame.— UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD, Volume 15, nos. 7-12, pg. 439-440 

Salvation or Deliverance

If you need salvation and or deliverance from this false unholy spirit or any other demonic spirit, please read this article:  Seeking Salvation or Deliverance.

Here is an excellent article that explains the history, characteristics and fruit of the Vatican Second Council New Evangelization initiative:  The New Evangelical – Evil fit for a New Dark Age.  See this article on the Roman Catholic goddess Mary (incarnation of Isis, etc) :  Mary Queen of Heaven – Whore of Babylon

A collage of images taken from the internet showing an explosion of demonic FIRE. Everything now involves this unholy FIRE;  from books, music, banners, posters, tattoos, t-shirts and background pictures for your pc.

unholy demon of fire

[1] Robeck, Cecil M., Jr. (2010). “Montanism and Present Day ‘Prophets'”. Pneuma: the Journal of the Society for Pentecostal Studies 32: 413.

[2] Tabbernee, Prophets and Gravestones, p. 68.
[3] Tabbernee, Prophets and Gravestones, pp. 12, 37.
[4] Eusebius of Caesarea, Ecclesiastical History Book 5. Chapter 16. paragraph 7.
[5] a b c Chapman, John (1911). “Montanists”. The Catholic Encyclopedia. 10. Robert Appleton Company. Retrieved 27 June 2011.
[6] Epiphanius, Against Heresies, 48.3-4.

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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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You didn’t quote Mark 16:17-18 under the section about “are there any signs that accompany believing and the Holy Spirit.” You deny the words of the Messiah, whether it’s on purpose or by accident, it’s misleading because Jesus clearly said what the effects and symptoms could be.

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Hi Nick, have you ever tried to take up serpents yet?


Not to mention a cup of liquid Ivy…  :shocked:

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Well said! Should we ask Nick whether he is a NAR apostle?


Hey my name is shenise i have a husbands thats kundalini was opened 2 years ago but he is not following what they want from i dont know how it was opened but i believe a near death experience ly question is at night i czn feel his body twerking and his eyes are very evil i believe in Jesus i love ly husband very much but i wanted to kblw is there help for people like hil pleasd

Matti Tanner

Like Jonathan said earlier, a believer who is filled with the Holy Spirit speaks in unknown tongue(s). Read 1 Corinthians 14:2. For one who speaks in an unknown tongue does not speak to people but to God; for no one understands him or catches his meaning,but byu the Spirit he speaks mysteries(secret truths, hidden things). (Amplified Bible)…

Tom (Discerning the World)

Totally agree.

The tongue spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14:2 is not an unknown language in the sense of it being an unearthly or supernatural one. It simply means that some church members had the ability to speak in different languages. In today’s setup it would mean, for instance, that some could speak in German, Chinese, French, Afrikaans, English etc. However, none of these languages could have had any edifying qualities whilst all the other church members couldn’t understand any of them. It could only edify someone who visited their church and could speak one of these languages. Whereas today we have to learn foreign languages in school or university or any other educational means to speak in those languages, the Holy Spirit gave them the ability to speak in other known languages. Therefore, and because God wants all to be saved, the Holy Spirit would use a person who had the gift of speaking in known languages to speak in the language of the visitor so that he or she may hear the gospel and be saved. That’s all.

By the way those who claim they speak in heavenly languages (plural) are heavily misled. Why? Because there is only one language in heaven, and I can prove it. Bear in mind that different languages are the result of a curse and not a blessing when God confused the nations with languages so that they could not understand one another and be dispersed throughout the entire world. In that way borders began to take shape, and for what purpose?

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: (Acts 17:26-27).

God had to set borders so that the nations may seek Him. Now you know why a border-less one world is such a demonic thing. It is the exact opposite to what God planned for sinful mankind.

Antoch Parrouche

[Deleted by DTW – your little tongues speaking demon is rather irritated I can see, that you come in here like a raging bull, red eyes, and insult us. Sorry, but I don’t care 1 iota of what you and your satanic demon has to say.]

Antoch Parrouche

[Deleted by DTW]

Matti Tanner

[Deleted by DTW – Please read the article on Gift of Speaking in Tongues, Prophecy and Healing]

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Amen! and Amen!


Thank you for your reply. However, you have not answered my questions. I appreciate the Scriptures, but here is one for you, Proverbs 1:6. To understand a proverb and an enigma, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. If there were no puzzles in the Word, Jesus and the profits would not have spoken in parables. We all have our own chaff, and we need the baptism of God’s fire to burn it off so that our grain can be gathered in. I am not advocating one church or another, but only the Word of God. Which is true and everlasting regardless of the depth to which we may or may not understand it. Remember the warning of Jude, against those who speak evil of what they do not understand. Also remember the prophecy of Isaiah. That the breath of the Lord, His Spirit, blows on the grass and causes it to wither. So God’s Spirit may not only give life, but also take it away. Depending, I believe, on the extent to which we are willing and able to receive it.
That said, it would seem that those experiencing unpleasant Kundalini symptoms in Christian churches would be those either unable to receive that aspect and strength of God’s Spirit, or perhaps the symptoms are a result of the individuals’ own fleshly chaff burning away. If they can’t or won’t let it go, it is possible I believe for people to die in the process. Now I’m very curious. Have you heard reports ever of Kundalini causing physical death? It really wouldn’t surprise me, whether by a demonic anointing, a Heavenly one, or any admixture possible. And yes it is possible. See the feet of iron and clay. But God is in the business of purifying His people, even by fire as it is written in 1st Peter.

1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.

4:12Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you.


Hi Deborah,

You said “I see, so the baptism of fire is for remission of sins?”

Among other things, but I’ll ask you straightly now, what do you
believe it is for, or did the Word misquote John Baptist that Jesus
would even baptize with fire at all, along with the Holy Spirit?

You said: ” And after that, when you sin again…do you need to be
baptised again in fire to burn off your chaff? Or is it like a
permanent burning, you are permanently on ‘fire’ burning that sin
(chaff) away?”

Word of God: “14The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

15He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

16He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.”

Isaiah 33

What do you make of that?

You said: “And the more you activate your Kundalini the stronger you become as
you ignite that ‘divine spark’ that you were born with into glorious
flame to purify you into a spotless little god…sorry I mean

I hadn’t thought of it quite like that, but you do serve much as the early heresthatologists, preserving and elucidating persecuted doctrines of the Word. And He did say twice, “Ye are gods.”

You said: “Or do you like genuine Christians go to Jesus Christ Himself and just
plainly ask for forgiveness of your sin and then change your ways?”

I do go to God and ask for forgiveness, and He does convict and enable repentance at times, but He will also leave me bound at times too, for a higher purpose most likely, even as Paul begged for the thorn in his flesh to be removed, but God ascerted His grace was sufficient. Thorns burning are also mentioned in the word, again in Isaiah, and also in Psalms. And all of God’s Word is to the disciple.

You defined: “enigma
plural noun: enigmas
a person or thing that is mysterious or difficult to understand.”

So is God an Enigma, or is He Himself easily understood? Yes or no. One or the other.
What say you?

You said: “Parables in the bibles are NOT mysterious, they are EASILY understood
by those who have the Holy Spirit of God abiding in them, not the
‘holy spirit’ of Hinduism over them.”

If the Word of God is all out in the open to a believer, why should we ever listen to pastors or teachers, and even more than that, why in Isaiah 45:3 again did He say:

“And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.”

I said “I am not advocating one church or another, but only the Word of God.”

You said: “I noticed, that is why you are insinuating that all paths that have a
‘holy spirit’ lead to the same God.”

There is only one God. There are many gods and many lords, but only one Lord God. The others are only His servants, and according to Psalm 119, all are His servants. Even His enemies are bound to serve Him, but only those who serve Him willingly and submit to Him in His Most High name Christ Jesus will live.

You said: “You receive the Holy Spirit when you are truly born again, when you
are not born again you will receive another spirit if you are willing
to accept it and that will lead to SPIRITUAL DEATH.”

Spiritual death is the default. Narrow is the way, and few are those who find it. Close to the majority of the world are Bible believing Christians, and I really don’t think that a near majority of the population would qualify as a few!!

2 verses I quoted:

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious
than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be
found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus

1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial
which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you.

You said: “This is NOT a reference to Kundalini/false holy spirit FIRE. The
‘fire’ G4451 πύρωσις purosis (pï ’-rō-sis) in these verses is
figurative and refers to being tried in trials/tribulation a
conflagration, calamity as a test – not some strange manifestation of
demonic fire burning away your sin.”

You’re right, it is not a reference to false fire. But you’re dead wrong to think it isn’t litteral. I know we shouldn’t usually pronounce judgements on one another as believers in God’s Word, but your calling the Fire of God figurative… Scoffer!!! You take incorruptible Word of God and make it empty by calling Him a mere figure of speech!!
Do you also think He was just allegorizing or pulling our leg about the Shelter and He is actually without feathers or wings? It’s this kind of scoffing that makes Christianity more acceptable to the unbelieving world, but it is a sincere disservice to the supernatural God of Miracles who bestowed His Word on us to call the supernal aspects of scripture mere poetry. True there is a wonderful poetic aspect, but scoffing at the litteral Truth doesn’t help anyone but Satan and the unbelieving world system to advance.

You said: “You either ask Jesus Christ Himself to forgive you of your sin and
change your ways,”

1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive
us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

“…or you believe this ‘unholy fire’ burns up your sin.”

And why do you continue to deny that fire is the mechanism of His cleansing? I am not in support of receiving a church anointing that may be from demonic sources, but I do affirm that the Fire of God is His and He is at work using it to refine His people as silver is tried. To deny this is to deny the true Lord God who baught you, and to deny Him is to voluntarily forfeit the inheritance of the saints He gave His blood to purchase.

You said: “Stop taking the Word of God and twisting it to suit your own occult agenda.”

Stop trying to iron God’s Word flat and change the Bread of Life for unprofitable pasturized pablum.

You sell yourself short and worse yet make our God look smaller instead of magnifying Him as is our right as those who believe on His Name.

Perhaps this is just a Tower of Babel argument. I am not saying anything one way or the other about a Kundalini Spirit. I have not had direct experience with such a thing that I know of, though I have been in congregations where they were calling down fire, but the only times I felt the fire of God were when He himself put a burning in my heart or on my body. It was not painful or sickening, but made me feel whole and well and full of love, and the peaceful presence of God came with it when that fire fell. I don’t doubt it could manifest in other ways, but when I’ve felt the fire of God it was angelic and not demonic, Heavenly and not Hellish, and for the most part private rather than public. I’m not saying He can’t do things outside of my experience or knowledge either, but I bear witness of what I have experienced, not of other spirits at work in other individuals. My two Biblical cents, but the riches of God do multiply when we invest them well.

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)


Indeed, you are playing with the fires of Babylon, as you suggested. You wrote:

“Perhaps this is just a Tower of Babel argument. I am not saying anything one way or the other about a Kundalini Spirit. I have not had direct experience with such a thing that I know of, though I have been in congregations where they were calling down fire, but the only times I felt the fire of God were when He himself put a burning in my heart or on my body. It was not painful or sickening, but made me feel whole and well and full of love, and the peaceful presence of God came with it when that fire fell. I don’t doubt it could manifest in other ways, but when I’ve felt the fire of God it was angelic and not demonic, Heavenly and not Hellish, and for the most part private rather than public. I’m not saying He can’t do things outside of my experience or knowledge either, but I bear witness of what I have experienced, not of other spirits at work in other individuals. My two Biblical cents, but the riches of God do multiply when we invest them well.”

The fact that you felt the fire which God supposedly put there Himself, proves that you are scoffing at the essence of faith. The Bible never says, “And without feeling it is impossible to please God.” It says, “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” (Heb 11:6)

The fire mentioned in Matthew 3:11 is not a fire to purge away the so-called chaff in your life. Its purpose is clearly defined by the context of verse 12, “Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”(Mat 3:12). The word “chaff” appears 14 times in the Bible and never in the sense of it being the sins and transgressions of believing saints that need to be burned up. It is always used to describe the wickedness of unbelievers and they, until they repent of their evil, are bound for the unquenchable fires of hell.


Hi Tom and Deborah,

I don’t feel the fire at churches, but occaisionally in my alone time with God. Faith and feeling are not mutually exclusive.

I’m not defending Kundalini or churches again, but merely standing up for God’s word. I don’t have time to argue with those unwilling to look at things from a fairminded Biblical perspective myself, but I’ll leave you with three questions:

1. Is there indeed a baptism of fire, or can you pick out the scriptures which are God’s Word from those supposedly added later on by scribes and translators?

If you think God’s Word is corruptable, you are indeed going down a worse path of demonic deception than the church people you rail against, and again I am neutral as to whether any unknown individual in such churches receives the true Holy Spirit, or a counterfeit.

2. What does the Word mean in Isaiah when He says “I will give you the treasures of darkness and things hidden…”?

He is either saying there are things He has hidden in His Word, or advising us to look into the darkness of other religions.

3. Is there a third option for the verse?

I have given you 3 very simple questions here. If you will not or can not answer them, you concede your arguments are shakey at best, unfounded and counterproductive to the growth of God’s people at worse. You choose. I’d like to think you aren’t completely irrational but are capable of defending your views or else modifying them, but your answers or failure to answer will show one way or the other what kind of believer you really are.

Thank you,


[Deleted by DTW]


@Franklin: The Bible clearly states that there is not only water baptism (full immersion), but also a baptism of fire, which is explained to be baptism in the Holy Spirit.
1. Matthew 3:11 [John the Baptist says:] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.
2. Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.
3. John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
4. Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
5. Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
6. Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
7. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Astrid, have you ever taken up serpents and drunk any deadly thing like rat poison? You haven’t. Well, then you are disobedient to Jesus who said, “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.” (Mar 16:16-18). Do you see the dichotomy in today’s false teaching that you must be baptized with water and fire?

John the Baptist’s words in Matthew 3:11 prove that water baptism is redundant. Paul even said, “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” (1 Co 1:17). However, every person who Paul led to Christ and got saved was baptized into the body of Christ BY THE SPIRIT (the Living Water). (1 Corinthians 12:13).

You are supposed to also quote verse 12 in Matthew 3:11 because it gives you the context of the “fire, “Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” (Mat 3:12). Therefore, the fire is not a blessing but a curse. What John the Baptist said in effect, is that his baptism with water could only lead people to a decision unto repentance, and could NOT judge or commit anyone who did not repent to eternal perdition in hell. Only Jesus can do that – either baptize those who repent into his Body by his Holy Spirit, or baptize those who do not repent into the unquenchable fire of hell.

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