Hi Thomas/Andy

If you tried to reply to Tom and found the article was closed for comments, I do apologise. Every now and then all comments close on articles for some unexplained reason. I’ve opened them again. Please do answer Tom I am interested in your response as well.

Hi Thomas,

Would you mind giving as a list of all the gifts you practice and why?

[Edited by DTW: Your other 2 comments that I deleted from other articles and move them here, you say:

1) “How can you adamantly say I Cor. 13:10 is referencing The Word of God in light of verse 12? Clearly that verse in context is not the bible but rather Christs return.” This question is answered here: https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/07/18/speaking-in-tongues/

2) “You are bereans who base your philosophy that the Holy Spirit no longer directs the gifts because of one verse, I Corinthians 13:10. You interpret this to fit your narrative and in doing so have to ignore ignore verse 12. Heed this warning: “Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.” 2 Timothy 3:5…”

Stop posting comments under articles that have nothing to do with the article. And stick to using one name please Thomas or Andy]

Amen!! :clap:

Hi K10

Thank you again for your comment and your openness to discuss with us your and your husband’s testimonies. I’m sure you will understand that I cannot beat around the bush when eternal salvation is on the agenda and therefore it is of vital importance that I be austerely candid whenever it is necessary.

You wrote:

“I accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior at 12 years old at a youth retreat for a Baptist church. I had a revelation of God’s love for me and decided to accept Him as my Lord and Savior. At the time, however, I don’t believe it “stuck” because it was only a year or so later that I didn’t go to that youth group anymore. . . . I got water baptized at that church a couple of months later where I officially accepted Christ as Lord and Savior (this was in 2008). Since then, I have considered myself a disciple of Jesus.”

Nowadays, most churches and their pastors urge their members to “accept Jesus as their Savior.” Their main reason for doing so is because they are reluctant to speak out against sin and do not want to load their congregants with feelings of guilt. They rather tell their congregants “to fall in love with Jesus,” (a.k.a. “Contagious Discipleship” of David and Paul Watson), “to give their hearts to Jesus,” “to become a follower of Jesus,” and/or “to accept Jesus as their Savior.”

As shocking as it may be, the word “accept” appears only once in the New Testament (Acts 24:3) and, therefore, hardly makes it necessary for salvation. To illustrate the Biblical way to be saved, I would like to use Paul of Tarsus’ conversion as an example. Most people believe that he was saved when he was on his way to Damascus to put the saints in chains and bring them back to Jerusalem, probably to be executed. As you already know, Jesus appeared to him in a vision, and while lying “in the dust after his horse had thrown him off, He said to him, “Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?”

Notice how Paul answered Him, “And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.” (Acts 9:5-6). At first he did not know who was speaking to him although he addressed Him as Lord. And then, when Jesus revealed his identity, he again called Him Lord. Did that make him a child of God because, as Calvinists believe, Jesus saved him monergistically (without faith) because he was allegedly an elect whom God had chosen and predestined unto salvation before the foundation of the world. Calling him Lord, Lord actually means nothing when one is still unsaved. (Matthew 7:21-23).

Note Jesus’ words, “ . . . . it shall be told thee what thou must do.” Surely Jesus could immediately have told him what to do. The question is: why didn’t He? The reason is that Paul needed someone who had experienced a true biblical salvation himself to tell him what to do. Yes, Jesus could have said to him, “repent ye because the Kingdom of heaven is hand.” However “repent” is not salvation proper and merely the first step to salvation. The word for repentance is “metanoia” and means to change your mind about everything concerning Jesus Christ and his Kingdom. Many people change their minds about Jesus is but never get saved Why? Here’s the answer:

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:13-14).

In order to go through a gate you must first approach it and then enter through it. Jesus said “I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. (Joh 10:9). The question we need to ask is why so few find the Door to enter through it. Jesus again gives the answer: He said:

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. (Mat 11:28-30).

Only the ones who realize and admit that they are laden with a yoke of sin will come to Jesus for their salvation. That’s why He also said, “They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.” (Matthew 9:12). Nevertheless, most people freely admit that they are sinners but fail to come to Jesus for their salvation because they think they can be saved in ways that supplement the finished work of Christ on the cross, such as water baptism, speaking in tongues, joining a certain church, or practicing mystical traditions such as lectio divina, silence, contemplative prayer, labyrinth walking, praying with icons etc. etc.

That’s why Jesus also said, “For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was (are) lost. (Luke 19:10). It is impossible to be saved unless those who realize and admit that they are sinners also realize and admit that they are lost sinners bound for hell. Most people admit that they are sinners but very few will admit that they are lost and bound for hell. That’s why Jesus also said, “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. (John 8:24). There are only two ways of dying — with your yoke of sin still intact and upon you for which you will then have to pay in hell forevermore yourself OR with your yoke of sin transferred to Jesus in the act of faith, i.e. that He has already paid for all your sins on Calvary. Having said this, let us now return to Paul and his conversion.

Immediately after Ananias laid his hands on him and he received back his sight, Ananias urged him to do what Jesus commanded him to do when he fell off his horse on his way to Damascus. And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. (Act 22:16). It was the apostle Peter who first used the phrase “call on the name of the Lord in Acts 2:21. Note carefully, he did not say “call on the Lord.” He said “call on the NAME of the Lord.” Nothing said or written in the Bible is coincidental. Every word is important. That’s why Jesus said, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” (Luke 4:4). His Name, Jesus, was given to Him when the angel Gabriel announced to Mary that she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. (Matthew 1:21).

Whoever calls on the Name of Jesus, shall be saved, is a promise God cannot and will never break because they call on his Name (which means to be saved from one’s sins) for their salvation. Listen again to what Ananias said to Paul as we turn the wording around a bit, “By calling on the Name of the Lord, you shall have your sins washed away and simultaneously be baptized.” The baptism to which Ananias referred was not water baptism. It’s the baptism of the Holy Ghost. How do we know? John the Baptist said: “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” (Matthew 3:11-12). Baptism with water cannot save. The baptism of the Holy Spirit has a two-pronged purpose — to baptize you into the body of Christ Jesus (salvation proper) (Romans 6:3) or into fire (God’s judgment and wrath). (John 3:36).

If you and your husband haven’t done so yet, I want to urge you like Ananias to call on the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

K10

Yes, please be patient. I have been trying to respond timeously but mundane things which I could not ignore kept me extremely busy today. I will try to finish my response ASAP.

Tom

Dear K10

Read your comment very carefully Check/ You and your husband are very important to us, please be patient, we will respond shortly.

I accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior at 12 years old at a youth retreat for a Baptist church. I had a revelation of God’s love for me and decided to accept Him as my Lord and Savior. At the time, however, I don’t believe it “stuck” because it was only a year or so later that I didn’t go to that youth group anymore. My parents weren’t really Christ followers-we would only go to church on Christmas and Easter and Jesus was never discussed at home. Then, in college, at the church I wrote about initially, I had an intense encounter with (what I think) was the Holy Spirit that was convicting me to turn back to God as I had been running from Him for a long time. I got water baptized at that church a couple of months later where I officially accepted Christ as Lord and Savior (this was in 2008). Since then, I have considered myself a disciple of Jesus.

My husband grew up in a Catholic household-he went to a Catholic elementary school for a couple of years. He saw a lot of hypocrisy in his household-the adults around him were definitely not living like Jesus but were “good Catholics” who went to mass every Sunday. At 15 he had a similar experience to me where he was at a youth group (evangelical) where he accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. He dabbled in college ministry groups but really didn’t go to Catholic church or any church in college-he ascribed to the idea that if you are a good person and do the right thing that it’s good enough. When I got baptized, he also recommitted his life to Jesus and got water baptized in 2011 at another church when he was traveling for his job.

I have read quite a few articles on your site and reflecting on our past with God I have realized that both of us, but especially my husband, were very attracted to seeing signs and wonders as I believe we both needed to know without a shadow of a doubt that God is real and He really does love us. We are both science majors (I teach biology and my husband went on to a career in human resources) and I know that we needed to see God move to truly know that he is Lord…for both of us it wasn’t enough just to read the Bible we needed the experience to disprove what we grew up with (especially me) as I wasn’t even sure God was real.

I do believe that the onus does rest on us to piece out deception from lies. However, my husband struggles most right now because he hasn’t been able to hear God’s voice clearly and is angry that He didn’t warn us more clearly (loudly) about what was going to happen or spoke to our leaders and course-corrected them. He believes that if God was truly good and truly loved us, He would have warned us about all of this years back. I can’t say that I disagree with him…can we really trust a God who lets these false teachers walk around and deceive so many people? Your site lists so many false teachers that are affecting millions of Christians. How can we truly trust what is being taught to us is truth? Why isn’t God intersecting with us and helping us to discern more clearly? This is honestly at the heart of the issue with both my husband and myself. Should we even follow God if it’s going to be this heartbreaking and challenging to know who He is? I still want to and I want to stay in faith that God is good and kind and loving. My husband has basically said he only wants to rely on himself and his own abilities because he is so hurt and doesn’t want to trust God again.

I appreciate your help and prayers for us-as well as how quickly you both responded!

Dear K10

When you realise you have been conned, because quite frankly that is exactly what has happened; you were conned ‘spiritually’. It’s a terrible thing to go through… and you will go through all the different emotions that a ‘victim’ experiences; that of anger, denial, sadness, worry etc, etc.

Please let Tom Lessing help you with biblical guidance, and know this: The Holy Spirit was speaking to you warning you all the time you were in this false church establishment, and your eyes were opened wide to the truth. God has been with you the whole time. The Holy Spirit has been drawing you the whole time. Trying to make you see that what you were involved with and what you were doing was wrong. God did not once forsake you! He is still with you and you will get through this only because Jesus Christ is going to show you the GOSPEL TRUTH.

I will be praying for you both.

Dear K10,

Thank you so much for your comment which echoes what many saints have experienced and are still being subjected to in their churches. It is always a very sad and bewildering thing to go through when you have to decide whether you want to stay put or to leave your church and especially your friends and family members who may also be in those churches. Nonetheless, it is always best to obey Jesus who said:

“And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.” (Matthew 10:36-38).

Note: He does not say we shouldn’t love our family and friends. He says that if we love them more than what we ought to love Him, we cannot be his disciples. It brings us to what your husband experienced. You wrote:

“At this time, my husband has completely walked away from the Church and God because he blames God for all of the confusion and pain that he suffered at our old church and questions whether or not God loves him.”

We tend to blame God for things that go wrong and conveniently forget that we ourselves are responsible for our own misdoings and misjudgments. Jesus never said, “Join any church you like, especially the ones where they are friendly, loving and always hugging one another. Don’t be concerned about them misleading you with their smiles and niceness because I will protect you against their false doctrines and deceptions.” (2 Corinthians 11:13-15). No, He said, “Take heed that no man deceive you.” (Matthew 24:4). The onus rests on you and me to guard ourselves against any form of deception.

We also tend to blame God for not loving us when things go wrong. Well, God cannot do otherwise but to love us because He is the very essence of love. We should rather ask ourselves whether we dearly and truly love God. In fact, God often needs to test our love for Him. Here’s an example.

“If a prophet arises among you, or a dreamer of dreams, and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder which he spoke (foretold) to you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us follow after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve and worship them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and mind and all your soul [your entire being]. You shall walk after the Lord your God and you shall fear [and worship] Him [with awe-filled reverence and profound respect], and you shall keep His commandments and you shall listen to His voice, and you shall serve Him, and cling to Him.” (Deuteronomy 13:1-4).

You may argue that your church never told you to follow after other gods. I beg to differ. The god’s name they serve is Jesus but he is not the Jesus of the Bible. It’s another Jesus. (2 Corinthians 11:4). Please don’t doubt God’s love for you. He gave his only begotten Son to die for you on the cross. What more do you want? Rather ask yourselves whether you love God with all your heart, mind and soul.

I will answer your questions on speaking in tongues in a follow-up comment but first I would like you and your husband to give us your testimony of how you received forgiveness for your sins. Will you do that? (1 Peter 3:15).