Top 10 Most Influential Christian Leaders of 2010

[DTW note: The most amazing things about all these men and women is this:  None of then are actually Chrisitan. They say they are Christian as they present you with their branded version of the Gospel. But that does not count.  You are either for Jesus Christ 100% or you are against him.  These people below preach another gospel, follow another Christ – therefore it is safe to say that they are 100% against Jesus Christ. – Please see notes next to each persons name.]

Top 10 Most Influential Christian Leaders of 2010

Taken from Christian Telegraph

Evangelist of the year – Reinhard Bonnke

The legendary evangelist has brought million of people in Africa to the Lord. Even as Reinhard is in his 70’s, his passion for Jesus is still going strong and he desires to awaken Europe, which has been spiritually asleep, to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. In addition to massive crusades, he views the internet as a great tool for evangelism and updates his Facebook page everyday. Reinhard has also prepared a successor for himself. [DTW note:  Reinhard Bonnke: Word of Faith / Latter Rain teaching – False Faith healer.  Caught lying about raising someone from the dead.]

Writer of the year – Lisa Bevere

Being an international speaker, author of many bestsellers and TV show hostess, Lisa Bevere is one of the few who encourages women all around the world to raise their voices and change this world for the better. In 2010 Lisa wrote the book “Lioness Arising: Wake Up and Change Your World,” in which she shared a prophetic message for women.   [DTW note:  Lisa Bevere:  Word of Faith / Latter Rain teaching / Contemplative spirituality]

Missionary of the year – Jaerock Lee

This pastor knows that Christians lives are to be holy and should be empowered by the Holy Spirit. He founded a mega-mega-church in Manmin, South Korea and works to bring revival and the Gospel to the most remote corners of the world. Just a few of the other countries he has impacted are Israel, Peru, Estonia, the United States of America, India, and countries in Africa.  [DTW note:  Jaerock Lee:  Word of Faith / Latter Rain teaching:  False Faith Healer, Lee has stated that he is “sinless and exempted from dying” S. Korean evangelist’s Uganda visit prompts cult jitters, Kyōdō, 2000-07-10]

Diplomat of the year – Rick Warren

The pastor of the mega-church Saddleback was named one of the most popular and influential users of Twitter. Rick Warren is one of the few pastors who publicly speaks with influential governmental officials. In 2010 he interviewed former United States of America president George W. Bush in his church.  [DTW note:  Rick Warren:  Purpose Driven Church – He will preach anything you want to hear. Currently promoting New Age Teaching including Reiki]

Philanthropist of the year – Franklin Graham

Franklin Graham has dedicated his life to preaching the Gospel and to helping those who are in desperate situations, including economically and medically. He is the President of the world-wide relief organization Samaritan’s Purse and the President of the Billy Graham Evangelical Association. Samaritan’s Purse is working in more than 100 countries.   [DTW note:  Franklin Graham:  Following after fathers Ecumenical footsteps. Interfaith combined with Word of Faith preaching]

Pastor of the year – Paul Melnichuk

Being the son of Ukrainian immigrants, Paul Melnichuk built a multi-national mega-church called The Prayer Palace in Toronto, Canada. Despite the very liberal society around him, Paul preaches the uncompromised Gospel. The Prayer Palace unites Christians of more than 50 nationalities.   [DTW note:  Jaerock Lee:  Word of Faith / Prosperity Preacher.  Probed by the Star for becoming RICH overnight while the congregation remained dirt poor.]

Leader of the year – James Davis

James Davis is the co-founder of the growing coalition of ministries and denominations called Billion Soul Network. It includes more than 350,000 churches. James is a gifted leader and his goal is to strengthen relations between pastors in order to plant five million churches and bring one billion people to Christ.  [DTW note:  James Davis:  An Ecumenical businessman with a goal that is unbiblical and goes AGAINST the grain of end-times scripture.  James Davis will plant a church no matter WHAT FAITH is preached.  See website and pictures of James Davis with the likes of Reinard Bonnke and Leonard Sweet.]

Reformer of the year – Mark Driscoll

He is the Pastor Mars Hill Church in Seattle, Washington and is working to reform the approach of having church and being a community of believers. He is using the latest technologies to do that. Mars Hill Church has created its own internet network, which is a virtual community that helps church members build strong relationships.  [DTW note:  Mark Driscoll:  Ties with Rick Warren and John Piper.  Founder of NEW CALVINISM]

Broadcaster of the year – James Dobson

After more than 30 years of ministry and as the leader of one of the most influential pro-family organizations in the U.S.A., Focus on the Family, James Dobson left the ministry that he founded and started a new radio program called Family Talk. The focus of the new program is to strengthen the institution of family, which James says is the foundation of a strong society.   [DTW note: James Dobson:  Focus on everything but the Gospel of Jesus – uses ‘Christian’ psychology. Helped bringing psychology and self-esteem teachings into the church.]

Strategist of the year – Leonard Sweet

Leonard Sweet is a historian of the American culture, futurist who sees the trends in the society that are unnoticed by others and a writer. Leonard is also a consultant to many churches and develops strategies to fulfill the Great Commission in the digital age of the 21st century. [DTW note: Leonard Sweet:  One of the fore-running Emergent Leaders at the moment.  Promotes everything to do with contemplative spirituality and mysticism, i.e, anything ungodly.]

source: http://www.christiantelegraph.com/issue11870.html

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27 Comment authors
Mike EvansBrad WilliamsDeborah (Discerning the World)CathyArthur Lockridge Recent comment authors
Deborah (Discerning the World)
Admin

Beti

No Beti, I asked you for scripture so that you can go and open your bible (like every believer is commanded by God to do) – I know you can’t quote me scripture because you don’t read your bible, instead you let others think for you. Well I am challenging you to take up my challenge just once for yourself, I wont answer you, just for yourself and go prove me wrong by searching the scriptures for your answers. Because I am pretty sure that through searching you will find that what you thought is true is not necessarily so. We all make mistakes, even I, but I am always willing to go and FIND and ANSWER to every QUESTION. And there is always a right answer and a wrong answer – no grey areas. If you don’t want to learn the gospel because I ask you, do it for JESUS Beti and because HE ASKS YOU smile

Beti
Guest
Beti

I think you know them all, all scriptures I could offer you and would have an answer for it….. oh, and even you are making mistakes !!!! ?? Wow. You are somewhat of bold to accuse others either not to be Christians, like in an other case I read, or they don’t read their Bibles. Why are you doing such things? I think you are spending a lot of time to answer questions and to do informational work But even you have to agree, no one has it all. But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. And if you are hurting others with statements they disagree with, or never experienced by themselves you have to stand some uncomfortable answer. One thing is to discuss the matter with some kind of in humility valuing others above oneselve, (what is very hard, I agree ;o) or we harm each other. That would not be an Christian attitude…. :o(

1 Corinthians 13
1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing. 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. …..

Apart from the listing of several gifts, it says what these gifts are all about: love. I know, I have to learn a lot about love.
And I am sometimes lacking this love and I am tempted to “dishonor others” and this is what I found also in the above article And yes, God is not Love alone. But all on its place!

Quote: “None of then are actually Chrisitan. They say they are Christian as they present you with their branded version of the Gospel. But that does not count.“

This reminds me of the situation in the Bible where the Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people…..

With no sentence you do any explanation or give any background for people which are uninformed. Can it be that you are assuming that everyone has to work through hundreds of pages on this site to find something about these people, to know what you are speaking about at a specific page?

The result of this is, that other people add commentaries, even more confusing and finally Preacher XY or Pastor Z is dismanteled for ever without having the opportunity to give any statement … because he / she has not been asked for truth sake.

With no well funded explanation, it is simply gossip. And yes I quoted a scripture above: Read 1. Corinthians 13, 5.
If you are telling me, you are exposing the works of the darkness, than do it carefully and not like this.

do you really know, what is inside each person?

“For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 2. Corinthians 2,11

…. and so …. who should judge people? For it is time for judgment to begin with Gods household – this makes sense but it is God who judges… And even me and you dont know the thoughts of God – without the Spirit – because the letter alone killeth……. This shall be my slogan if I am so smart in my own eyes.

We have to be sober, and the real watchman has to watch. But there are many selfmade watchman, and many many different views and opinions. I always understood that we first of all have to watch ourselves. Teaching and judging others brings much responsibility with it. There were always appointed vessels God used for this because reward is big and also judgement.

So for me it was important, to resolve some essential basics, and principles, I can see in the bible, before quoting scriptures for you in the case of gifts and so on….”
And I learned that Scripture is on your side, so there is no chance for me anyway! :O)
Blessings

Beti
Guest
Beti

Finally I found out, how your Site is working and saw the commentaries about “Can Satan heal?”
So, aha, now I understand your concern and basically I agree in many points. But always compensated on the Men and Women who are in error and have false fruits and deceive other people, the gifts of the spirit are always under bombardment. And that is sad
I saw the true and saw the false stuff in Church. You stated that Satan counterfeits the gifts, but he could not do so if they were not there and real in the first place. I personally don’t believe that Speaking in Tongues is from Hell.
Now it was very helpful for me for understanding Speaking in Tongues to make a difference between 2´prophetic promises given in the Bible
First promise about Salvation through the Holy Spirit in Ezechiel 36, 26 – 27
Second promise about equipment with power of the Holy Spirit and Gifts Joel 2, 28…
So we can see that God is inhabiting a saved person through the Holy Spirit (John 1,12-13)
He also causes the fruits of the Spirit (Galatian 5,22) provides guidance and offers the gifts of the Spirit and empowers us to do His work.
So, we are seale with the Spirit (Ephesian 1,13) if we are saved.

Now to the term : Being baptized with the Holy Spirit. < ------- See my comment below
Here also one can see 2 different views:
The integration of the believers into the Body of Christ (1. Corinthians 12,12-13)
For these people “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” is equal with Salvation or integration into the Body of Christ.
The other view is the special experience of receiving the Holy Spirit, (Acts 11, 15-16)
These people say that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a Experience which follows Salvation and Baptism.

Jesus said “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” (Matthew 3,15) and with this He declares that it is right, that one turns around and repents, gets Water Baptism and becomes a new creation.
So He fulfilled all justice. (Matthew 3, 13)
V 17…. The Holy Spirit even came upon Jesus < ------ The Holy Spirit DID NOT COME UPON JESUS, Jesus did not get baptized by the Holy Spirit – JESUS was BORN OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (This is Blasphemy and something that Kenneth Copeland started to preach – The bible says: Matthew 3:17 – “and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him” – it does not say that Jesus was baptized in the Holy Spirit, it says a dove (Holy Spirit) came down as a SIGN to the bystanders that Jesus was in FACT the SON OF GOD.)
So what did Jesus say about the Holy Spirit to his disciples (before death) – (read Johannes 16,7)
In 1. John 21 Jesus is called the intercessor (I am german, don’t know if this is the right translation for Parakletos.
So, this was the Announcement of Pentecost,
What did Jesus say about the authorization by the Holy Spirit (after his resurrection): (John 20, 19-23)

19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Well, Jesus breathed on them….. strange!!!! ;o))
But the Holy Spirit was not yet here (after resurrection) (Acts 1, 8)
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” < ----- When you read your bible, always ask yourself who is being spoken too? He is speaking to the APOSTLES AND DISCIPLES ONLY THOSE COMMISSIONED TO TO OUT AND START THE CHURCH - They did NOT have the WORD OF GOD - They needed the Holy Spirits POWER over them to witness because they were MARTYRED for preaching! Then the Bible was written - the canon was closed, sealed. Do not add or take away from these Words God says!

Jesus announcement of Toungues: ( short before Ascension) ( read Mark 16,15-18) < ------ See my comment below
Pentecost ( Acts 2,1-4)
Now we come to the next 2 points:
Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit came to Earth interchanging with Jesus who was in Heaven. A new Time began. The Time of The Holy Spirit here on Earth and the era of the Church. (Romans 16, 25+26)
This Experience was unique and not repeatable.
The Pentecost Experience of the disciples which was / is repeatable.
Jesus ordered to stay in Jerusalem until the promise of the Father will come (Joel 2,28) < ------- See my comment below
Acts 2 15, 16 ….. reference to Joel 2, 28 which says
28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Then we can read about the first spreading of the Gospel (Acts 8, 12 – 16)
Here we can see how a revival happened in Samaria and many came to faith including Simon the Sorcerer. They got saved and baptized.
14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Wow: They got saved, baptized and yet the Holy Spirit was fallen upon none of them……..
Later Peter and John laid on hands and they got the experience….!
13And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. ´

Acts 11.13-16 – even gentiles got saved 1 and finally” the Holy Ghost fell on them , as on us at the beginning
And then the deep insight: 17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

1And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the inlanda country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 2And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5On hearing this, they were baptized inb the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying. 7There were about twelve men in all.

Acts 19,5-6 Here again saved, baptized, speaking in tongues and even prophesying…
So now, 1. Corinthians 14,2:
For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.
So, if it would be demonic, why would Paul then try to make Tongues compatible for church service, in mentioning it several times:

1 Corinthians 14, 22
So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.

Tongues as a sign……

Also for the Jews, that the gentiles will get saved.

1 Corinthians 14, 22 Tongues as a part of the gifts. Building up the whole church.

Corinthians 12, 4-11:
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them.
Interresting! Not gift from the Holy Spirit and tongues from Hell!
The s a m e spirit!
Equal with Prophecy if interpreted!
So, I ask again: So, if it would be demonic, why would Paul then try to make Tongues compatible for church service
Like seen here:
Corinthians 14 and here especially Verses 1-6
Also 16 -25
So, even if it has to be in order, one cannot avoid tongues when speaking about gifts. And there has never been an order, that tongues have to end with the last Apostle. What`s to think about Gods word if you have to believe one passage, and the next passage is out of order. This would be very disturbing.
In these instructions which Paul gave about tongues you can also find the second aspect: the personal prayer language.
Read 1. Corinthians 14. This does not speak about a war in ones mind between Praying in Tongues and Praying with normal words. Paul says it is right to pray in tongues but not in front of other people. They do not understand what you say and don’t get anything out of it. You can see in Verses 15 – 17 that he never denies prayer in tongues.
He also does not speak about Holy Spirit let prayers in our own mothertongue, otherwise he would not have mentioned the avoidance of difficulties in communication by speaking in own prayer language in front of others.
Further, why would he say in vers 18 ; I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. (Prayer language) but he states:
26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God. (Tongues as a gift with interpretation).
And for all people which never saw that one can be too weak to pray the right thing at the right time:
26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which own cannot be uttered.
One can interpret it that the Holy Spirit can give impulses through our spirit to pray with words, or it also can be a a hint on tongues.
I will finish with the footnote that I often realized that even prayer with words can be influenced demonically or soulish. It is a matter of trust, what you will receive, if you will ask God for something and certainly of devotion to Jesus. I think, if we come in the right intension, he will give us bread, not stone…..

So, now I will finish. Thank you for your ear. This was not a matter of “writing something”. My Heart was in it.
Blessings

Deborah (Discerning the World)
Admin

Beti

Firstly, don’t twist my words as you do the bibles and tell me that making a MISTAKE is the same as being in CONSTANT ERROR. I know pretty much immediately when I have made a mistake Beti and will GO OUT OF MY WAY to correct myself – BECAUSE OF THE GUIDANCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN MY LIFE. False teachers willfully preach error, even when they are told that what they are doing is CONTRADICTING THE BIBLE, they argue and they CONTINUE to preach lies and more often than not because of their disobedience to God these false preachers end up deeper and deeper in DOCTRINES OF DEMONS.

As for tongues, please read this article Beti. http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/07/18/speaking-in-tongues/ The scriptures you have given you have given OUT OF CONTEXT. Your first problem is with Joel 2,3 and Acts2:17 http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/01/your-sons-and-your-daughters-will-prophesy-but-not-yet/ – if you don’t understand the correct meaning of these scriptures you WILL end up misconstruing all other verses on tongues, prophecy, etc. Please read this article on prophecy: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/01/17/are-prophets-for-today-or-has-prophecy-ceased/

Now please listen to me, I am after all a “spiritual superwoman” in your own words. wink Not mine. A nice insult never the less, but I’m over it. I’ve been called a Pharisee so many times I just read right over it.

Beti
Guest
Beti

No, dear deborah, I will certainly not read this. And I feel quite comfortable with this decision. Because of Sites like yours, many people really have a hard time in believing the gospel. I really wanted to look up one subject apart from having my view on false teachers and you did it again. My scriptures are “out of context” and you are right. Can it be that you are totally captured in your own rightiouness? So go on defending yourself and your view, it is not my business. Read over all what people say to you, and go on warning the world “in love”, ignoring the most important values in connection to other people.
I give you the allowance to reply to this, in order to have the last word and to look good. But certainly I will not return to this Site, because you are making things complicated that should be very easy … even for children. And eventually take into consideration, that there might be other human beings also hearing the voice of the Shepherd. You must be very hurt.

Deborah (Discerning the World)
Admin

LOL

Beti
Guest
Beti

[deleted]

Paul
Guest
Paul

Deborah,

THANK YOU so much.
I’ve been reading you recently and I thank you for all you are doing to expose the false prophets/apostles/teachers/leaders of today.

Please tell me what’s wrong with James Dobson. I have a lot of respect for him, and his books and radio broadcast have helped me a lot. I just feel completely lost with all I read from your website. I don’t disbelieve you, but I just feel completely lost.
Also, people like Bonnke and Bill and Franklin Graham.

Deborah (Discerning the World)
Admin

Paul

I do believe I made notes in green with some links next to each persons name giving reasons as to why they are not kosher. Please read those notes.
As for Billy Graham, see here: The New Evangelical – Evil fit for a New Dark Age

carl
Guest
carl

Hi Deborah, I just wan’t to say sorry for what I have written to you.

Deborah (Discerning the World)
Admin

carl

Noooooo problem.

Hester
Guest
Hester
Dan Glass
Guest
Dan Glass

Dear Deborah — I have been reading the articles and comments on your site with much interest and sympathy. How does one register to post comments, etc.? Thank you, Dan Glass, USA

Deborah (Discerning the World)
Admin

Dan

You have just posted a comment smile

Deborah (Discerning the World)
Admin

Hester

Gosh, this is intense. I’ve read it twice and I am still confused, does he see homosexuality as a sin?

Lee
Guest
Lee

I’m sorry Debs but I have just read what Hester posted about that book and I have to say something is amiss…there seems to be a common theme of LOVE…..ring any bells lol? who do we know wants to convince everything that LOVE LOVE LOVE makes the world go round ehhh? lol x

Also all those times Jesus coming to him, you would have thought there would have been a biblically balanced message of repentance given on his part and on others AS WELL AS saying that those who judge unjustly (or unrighteously) will be judged!

As well, I felt funny when he said the part about a grey man in a suit unwinding cloth from his body….this is suggestive….and there are other things as well that are somehow questionable…but ehhh I hope I’m wrong lol!

Hester
Guest
Hester

Well that is me too – confused. Almost got the feeling that he doesn’t like Paul and he is bordering on making David and Jonathan gay (maybe I am reading it wrong) but then towards the end he says “The reason why so many relationships, whether gay or straight, fail is that they are based on sex and not on true love.” I dont’ think one would say that unless you are concerned about gay relationships breaking up. Also, just noticed all the influences (Rebecca Brown, Joyce Meyer, Angus) in his life and 1,236 people have already ‘like’ his story.

Deborah (Discerning the World)
Admin

Hester

No you are right, I got the same impression. It’s so mind boggling I’m quite astounded actually. And you quoted what I wanted to quote as well, ““The reason why so many relationships, whether gay or straight, fail is that they are based on sex and not on true love.” <– like what the?

>> I dont’ think one would say that unless you are concerned about gay relationships breaking up.

Totally agree

And the demonic spirit 'jesus' that visits him and blows on his neck and lies next to him on the bed to wake him up? Almost an intimate position….. Lying behind him blowing on his neck. And the lamp that turns on by itself. Oh boy.

What I find interesting is how he got saved, he denounced Jesus Christ and then this demonic ‘jesus’ visits him and he gets saved. That is totally unbiblical.

And yes he loves Faith like Potatoes (Angus Buchan) and found great info from Rebecca Browns one book and Joyce Meyer.

Deborah (Discerning the World)
Admin

Lee

No you are not wrong.

Lee
Guest
Lee

Debs & Hester,

Yep Yep Yep and YEP! all what you said as well! especially blowing on his neck! This is all too reminiscent of the times many people say ‘jesus’ visits them and has long conversations with them!

Also compare the biblical visitations of Jesus with these visions…..where is the Godly fear and respect displayed in the recepients? Look at revelation to see how John reacted to the Glory of God, Look at Daniel, Paul all those, and yet this guy has probably been visited by ‘jesus’ over 10 times????

Something does not add up, in fact his story seems biblically illogical!

samuel1953
Guest
samuel1953

Hi – Regarding Mr Botha. He has in his “exegesis” made both Jonathan and David gay.He further strongly insinuates that Paul was probably gay. But the real tenor of Botha’s ‘apology’ is a rant against church leaders in general for ‘overlooking’ greed and adultery among church members whilst condemning homosexuality. Botha seems to suggest that condonation of the former two justifies acceptance of the latter. Not convincing.Regards John.
PS I see Mr Botha has had the location of the Kruger millions revealed to him as well.

Hester
Guest
Hester

Deborah and Lee
Do you, when you are faced with these kind of stories, just leave it or do you think one should write to him and maybe give him some of the links on your page? On the one hand i never know if one should even entertain a debate about issues or whether one should just pray for a person like this? What do you think? One of my colleagues at work was trying to let me see the “light” as he feels if you are unable to speak in tongues you are not baptised in the Holy Spirit and after a while i realised that he will not as much not hear what i have to say, he just can’t. Almost like he has made up his mind like that is how it is and anything outside of that is not true.

Lee
Guest
Lee

Hester,

I’m gonna let Debs answer you on this one ;)! She’s been there, done that and knows more than me on topics such as these.

I’ll chip my thoughts after Debs has had a say.

Over to you Debs ;)…

Deborah (Discerning the World)
Admin

Hester

I came up with a bright idea the other day of starting a page where I list with a brief explanation false teachers such as these. I started with Deon Hockey – the problem with me is…the brief explanation turned into a full article (much to the amusement of my husband) and I am scared (knowing me) that if I try write articles for every false teacher out there and boy there are thousands of them I will be writing till the cows come home. So what’s the plan? I need to think this over. *thinking*

The page idea is a good idea but it will become large and cluttered very quickly with the many people out there I need to write about. Plan B is to write small articles and I mean small articles on the likes of James Botha etc and then bigger articles on the major players.

Regarding writing to someone like him; I would go the article route and email him a link and ask him to dialogue out in the open. And we always pray for people because we just don’t know what is going on in their lives.

Regarding your colleague – sounds like my grandmother, except my grandmother has told me I am not saved because I am not baptized in the Holy Spirit. She refuses to want to listen to any reasoning. I have given up trying to speak to her. You sow your seeds and then leave it alone if you see you are getting nowhere.

samuel1953
Guest
samuel1953

Hi. Mr Botha appears to be convinced that he is a (the?) evangelist to homosexuals – hence the ‘New Horizon Ministries’, and the appeal for funds. His distorted explanation of Scripture in purported support of his (untenable) position, suggests that he will not be convinced/convicted of his error by way of argument. I believe he is looking for support (on the Web) to justify his stance.Regards John

Deborah (Discerning the World)
Admin

Lee

Well firstly, Jesus will not visit people in this day and age because He has given us the Holy Spirit as His replacement.

John 14:15-17 “15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; ”

Secondly Jesus tells us in the Bible that if anyone tells you that they see Him in this day and age, not to believe them.

Matthew 24:26 “Therefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.”

And the rest of James Botha’s story speaks for itself…

Lee
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Lee

“Well firstly, Jesus will not visit people in this day and age because He has given us the Holy Spirit as His replacement. ” I agree! ! But I was just saying, if He was to, it wouldn’t be like any of these accounts such as this guys story lol…

I mean…I do think it is possible even though He said the Holy Spirit resides as His witness on earth….I read an account by Howard Pittman about 2 yrs ago, and that seemed biblical, but your right, all we need is the Word & the testimony of the Holy Spirit and if that doesn’t shock us nothing else will loool…you with me loool

“Secondly Jesus tells us in the Bible that if anyone tells you that they see Him in this day and age, not to believe them.” oh yea lol….I always read this verse as meaning if they see Him physically in one place as opposed to the whole world seeing Him when He returns…

Deborah (Discerning the World)
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John (samuel1953)

Thanks for the analysis. Glad you paid more attention to what he was saying because I was so taken back I kinda lost track (I’m a poet and didn’t even know it).

Re; the Kruger millions, my thoughts on this are, “LOL”

Lee
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Lee

Debs/Hester

If Jesus truly visits people in this day and age like these accounts say they do, where is the changed life and longevity in their testimony??? Of course their life is changed but is it for the better biblically speaking?

Like, try see what Im saying, How many times did Jesus visit Paul before Paul did a complete U-turn and became a tool used by God to testify of Christ crucified?

Deborah (Discerning the World)
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Lee

I see what you are saying.