At Boshoff from CRC Church shows us how Pharisees went about ‘Honoring’ God

At BoshoffThe recent invitation to debate sent to Mr. At Boshoff by Dion Knoesen was as a result of the below notice sent out by CRC, to their members and undersigned by Mr. Boshoff.

This notice was dated 16 November 2010 with the Subject: “Honour God”

We wish to state the reason for the intended debate with Mr. Boshoff.  We hope to either persuade Mr. Boshoff to give heed to proper rendering of the Scriptures for his own benefit and also to benefit those who are under his shepherding.

1Ti 4:16    Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

On the CRC website it s mentioned that Mr. Boshoff studied at “A Bible College” for three years fulltime. Unfortunately no name is given to this Bible College.

In the last paragraph on this webpage the it says the following:

“He has been described as focussed, passionate and fervent in his hunger for the Word of God and explosive in his dynamic teaching of it. His positively dynamic and practical messages are equaled in their refreshing relevancy to their bold authenticity and doctrinal accuracy. “

When looking exegetically into his notice “Honour God” we have to question his “authenticity and doctrinal accuracy.”

For informative purposes the quoted Scriptures by Mr. Boshoff is discussed below in RED

As Paul wrote:

Php 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

Php 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;


Email sent out from CRC Church to it’s congregation:

 width=From: CRC Christian Church
Sent: 16 November 2010 01:00 PM

Honour God

“Money is the answer to all things.” Ecc 10:19

The two most important books in your life are the Bible and your cheque “book”. The Bible is the revelation of God’s love for us and our cheque book is the revelation of our love for God.

In Joshua 7 we read about the only place where Israel failed when they crossed into the Promised Land. The only place where Israel suffered defeat because they tampered with the gold and silver (the devoted things) that belonged to God.

Your tithe is Holy to God. Lev 27:30. There are two principles that dominate throughout the Old and New Testament: First fruits get given first and; seed time and harvest. It is God’s purpose that should drive us to give.

In Acts 5 we read about Ananias and Sapphira that financially stood in the way of God’s purpose and suffered great calamity. God does not curse you; your actions open your life to either failure or success.

Does Jesus endorse tithing? Of course He does. In both Matt 23:23 and Luke 11:42; Jesus says that tithing should be the most basic thing. When you tithe you shouldn’t even see that 10 percent. It’s God’s. Also we read in Heb 7 that tithing was before the law. It was a part of the Abrahamic covenant that still exists and is fulfilled in Jesus. He tithed to Malchizedek (high priest) 430 years before before Moses came with the law.

Your allegiance, your tithe, should be given to the church where you are planted. Mal 3 speaks about the coming of Jesus and actually the Holy Spirit. In this we see that we should bring the tithe to the “storehouse” which is your church. Give to God what is God’s. It is God who should be honoured first because He is the source of all your income. Matt 22:17-21

We work to build the kingdom of God, we shouldn’t work to meet our own needs. People can frustrate the work of God by withholding resources. Let’s evaluate ourselves and rectify places where maybe we’ve neglected to honour God with our finances. If you start today it is never too late.

This past week-end we saw 470 people giving their lives to Jesus. We are here to possess the Promised Land. Thank you to every one of you for working hard throughout the year and inviting your world to CRC.

We had a fantastic harvest event in Cape Town last week. We saw the entire auditorium filled to the max. Ps. Aidan and Sharon are doing a great work in that city. I believe many good things are still heading our way in Cape Town.

They have begun to lay the foundations for the Pretoria Building Project. We are so excited to see how things come together as we follow the instructions of God. As we are now in the time when we have to pay the contractors large sums of money every month, I urge you to give the money you pledged or whatever extra the Holy Spirit lays on your heart.

If you still want to contribute please e-mail finance[at]crc.org.za

The Kids’ Party is only a week away. Please take part in this as we are going to make the day special for over 15 000 underprivileged children. If you would like to volunteer or make a donation please contact 051-xxx xxxx.

Be Blessed,

At Boshoff


A Critique on how to “Honor God” written by At Boshoff – Critique notes in red

“Money is the answer to all things.” Ecc 10:19 (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:   It is utterly disappointing to notice that Eccl. 10:19 is cited and interpreted in the way At Boshoff has done so in his notice to the congregation at CRC.

When reading what King Solomon wrote in the book of Ecclesiastes the basic understanding and proper rendering of the Scripture quoted is in fact quite the opposite, as indicated here by Mr. Boshoff.

The passage in context from the first verse (In fact the first chapter of Ecclesiastes) has to do with what the foolish do and the evils resulting from their actions in this world, which also includes verse 10.

Solomon’s message is one of vanity to all that are under the sun, which includes “Money is the answer to all things” What Solomon actually means in writing this is that man’s trust in money which according to man answers all things, is vanity. Their trust and security should be in God and not in money.

It is vanity of fools who rely on their money for all things instead of God.

Psa 62:8  Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. Selah.

Psa 62:9 Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.

Psa 62:10  Trust not in oppression, and become not vain in robbery: if riches increase, set not your heart upon them.

Psa 62:11  God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto God.

Mar 10:24  And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

1Ti 6:17  Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

1Ti 6:19  Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life

Why do so many pastors not put their faith in God but rather exploit the people, after all they are always accusing those who do not have money as being without faith – yet when they need the money they rely on the people instead of their faith??

The Bible does not teach that money should not be used to preach the Gospel and to support brethren (not organisations) in the body of Christ – it is very obvious that mammon should be befriended for this purpose.

But to contort Scripture in this manner shows doctrinal ignorance – hopefully – that rather done so on purpose.]

The two most important books in your life are the Bible and your cheque “book”. The Bible is the revelation of God’s love for us and our cheque book is the revelation of our love for God. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Where is this revelation in the Bible, that our cheque book is the revelation of our love for God??

The revelation I find is that our love for the Lord Jesus, is to keep His commandments not the love of filthy lucre. Our love is manifested in our obedience to Him, our trust in Him alone not in mammon and riches.

There are only two important books and that is the Bible and having your name written in the Book of Life.]

In Joshua 7 we read about the only place where Israel failed when they crossed into the Promised Land. The only place where Israel suffered defeat because they tampered with the gold and silver (the devoted things) that belonged to God. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Ouch!!! First of all it was not Israel who “tampered with the gold and silver” but one man named Achan the son of Camri who had stolen some of the spoils of looted booty of Jericho. (This also had nothing to do with his own money, silver or gold or any of his personal belongings which is referred to here Mr. Boshoff in quoting Joshua 7 for gaining money from New Testament congregants.)

Yes, Israel as a corporate entity was punished as result of the theft by Achan, but it had absolutely nothing to do with the personal wealth individuals were given by God, which were then somehow to the interpretation of this part of Scripture withheld from God.

Firstly this was in disobedience to God, because God placed a ban on personal gain from the looted goods.

Secondly theft was the cause of the punishment – taking things not given to you by God.

Thirdly it was the covetousness of Achan that was addressed in the punishment. Covetousness is what God warns us against throughout the Scriptures.

A reminder: The Bible does not teach that money should not be used to preach the Gospel and to support brethren (not organisations) in the body of Christ – it is very obvious that mammon should be befriended for this purpose.

But to contort Scripture in this manner shows doctrinal ignorance – hopefully – that rather done so on purpose.

To be under the shepherding of someone who does not understand context and doctrine or does understand context and twists it out of context, is not promoted by Scripture:

1Ti 4:16  Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.]

Your tithe is Holy to God. Lev 27:30. There are two principles that dominate throughout the Old and New Testament: First fruits get given first and; seed time and harvest. It is God’s purpose that should drive us to give. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Some more doctrines lacking regarding the tithe very applicable to the Old Testament. Using this one verse for the purpose of tithing is not sufficient and there were many tithing’s applicable not just one. To understand this tithe there were basically 4 types of tithing in the Old Testament ONLY

a) The tithe to the Levites. Deut.14: 27.

The Levites were the “government” of Israel and due to them not having a share in the land allocated to the rest of the tribes, those allocated land were to use of their produce to give to the Levites.

b) The tithe of the Levites to the Zadokites. Neh.10: 38.

Now this is where Malachi is used to place unnecessary burdens on believers today.

First of all, tithings were purely laws given in the Torah or Old Testament. So commanding and condemning people to tithe today by quoting Malachi 10, is basically going back to the Torah or the Law, putting congregants back under the law.

Secondly the Scriptures used below to state that Jesus endorses tithing are totally out of context with regard to tithing and God’s Word in fact it refers to this as works by the Pharisees to justify themselves, something God loathes. In Fact God says woe to them that tithe! – will explain when we discuss these passages.

Thirdly when Malachi 3:10 is read and understood in context it refers to the tithe in a) above, the tithe in Deut 14:27 which was received from the tribes and given to the Levites. The Levites in turn were to skim off a tithe from this tithe (Neh10:38) to give to the priests attending to temple duties. So it was the Levites who were robbing God not the people.

It is interesting when reading the “Works Of Josephus” the Sadducees were the rich of the day who were using the tithes to enrich themselves. Josephus admits to this as he himself was a Sadducee.

Historically it is proven that the Sadducees were extremely rich due to the financial contributions by ordinary people who were forced to pay tribute.

There is no new thing under the son. Today’s Sadducees and Pharisees apply the same rule. The flock enriches them as result of their own rendering and contortions of Scripture.

The clergy were robbing God of tithes not the people, hence the rebuke to them in Malachi 10.

Have any of the Malachi 10 promoters ever read the following to any of their congregations?

Mic 3:10 They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity.

Mic 3:11  The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us.

Mic 3:12  Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.

The third type of tithe:

c) The tithe toward the annual Holy Days. Deut. 14: 22 – 26.

3 Times a year the Israelites were to attend Holy Feasts at Jerusalem and for this they needed to set aside a tithe of their harvests etc. If they were too far from Jerusalem they could sell the targeted tithed articles and turn it into money. This they would spend upon themselves and the Levites once they arrive in Jerusalem.

d) The tithe to the less fortunate. Deut.14: 28 – 29.

This is also a tithe to obviously assist the needy in the Old Testament.

Although a tithe in the New Testament is never mentioned in this regard there are many Scriptures which clearly say that the needy ought to be cared for.

When one searches for the word “Tithe” in the New Testament there are  two references one in Matt. 23:23 and the other in Luke 11:42 which notably is quoted by Mr. Boshoff and will be discussed.]

In Acts 5 we read about Ananias and Sapphira that financially stood in the way of God’s purpose and suffered great calamity. God does not curse you; your actions open your life to either failure or success. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Who is man that he is able to stand in the way of God’s purpose? Is God dependant on man?

Psa 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

It is agreeable that one’s actions open you to success or failure, but to use Acts 5 as yardstick for failure and success is totally out of context.

I know of many people struggling financially who humbly adores God and has extreme credence in the Lord Jesus, but who realize that their own actions caused their calamity. Those being poor and suffering financially in this life without rejecting the Lord Jesus who are willing to endure to the end will be first in the Kingdom.

Although there are certain quotations by the MHCC I do not fully agree with the MHCC renders the following understanding with regard to Ananias and Sapphira which I could not have worded better:

The sin of Ananias and Sapphira was, that they were ambitious of being thought eminent disciples, when they were not true disciples. Hypocrites may deny themselves, may forego their worldly advantage in one instance, with a prospect of finding their account in something else. They were covetous of the wealth of the world, and distrustful of God and his providence. They thought they might serve both God and mammon. They thought to deceive the apostles. The Spirit of God in Peter discerned the principle of unbelief reigning in the heart of Ananias. But whatever Satan might suggest, he could not have filled the heart of Ananias with this wickedness had he not been consenting. The falsehood was an attempt to deceive the Spirit of truth, who so manifestly spoke and acted by the apostles. The crime of Ananias was not his retaining part of the price of the land; he might have kept it all, had he pleased; but his endeavouring to impose upon the apostles with an awful lie, from a desire to make a vain show, joined with covetousness. But if we think to put a cheat upon God, we shall put a fatal cheat upon our own souls. How sad to see those relations who should quicken one another to that which is good, hardening one another in that which is evil! And this punishment was in reality mercy to vast numbers. It would cause strict self-examination, prayer, and dread of hypocrisy, covetousness, and vain-glory, and it should still do so. It would prevent the increase of false professors. Let us learn hence how hateful falsehood is to the God of truth, and not only shun a direct lie, but all advantages from the use of doubtful expressions, and double meaning in our speech.]

Does Jesus endorse tithing? Of course He does. In both Matt 23:23 and Luke 11:42; Jesus says that tithing should be the most basic thing. When you tithe you shouldn’t even see that 10 percent. It’s God’s. Also we read in Heb 7 that tithing was before the law. It was a part of the Abrahamic covenant that still exists and is fulfilled in Jesus. He tithed to Malchizedek (high priest) 430 years before before Moses came with the law. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Is Mr. Boshoff rightfully dividing the Word here?

To understand Matthew 23:23 effectively one needs to read from verse 1!

These were the Words of the Lord Jesus Himself. The Lord Jesus was warning against the Pharisees and rebuked them for putting credence or weight to their tithes. The Lord Jesus says in Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The Lord Jesus most certainly does not say that tithing is the most basic thing in this Scripture. In fact He says woe to those that tithe and ignore the important things that God wants. The Lord Jesus in fact says that it is NOT the most basic thing. He says the “weightier” matters are more basic than the tithe.

Luke 11:42 Again out of context and basically the same rebuke goes out to the Pharisees who promoted and relied on tithing as the basic thing at the time of the Temple in Jerusalem.

I do not find: “Jesus says that tithing should be the most basic thing” What I do find is another rebuke to the Pharisees and Scribes who felt very secure in basic tithing: Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! For ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

What I have found in CRC when I used to go there was that they were promoting security in tithing, but the more important and weightier matters such as keeping the Lords commandments in our love for Him, I personally never heard in any sermon by Mr. Boshoff.

Is this not precisely why the Lord Jesus in His Word rebukes the Pharisees?

In Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42 the focus is more on the “weightier” matters than the tithe.

A very repetitive part of Scripture used by Mr. Boshoff is Hebrews 7

Gen: 14:18: And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the highest God.

Gen: 14:19: And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

Gen: 14:20: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand.  And he gave him tithes of all.

This is to “prove” that tithing was established before the time of Moses, the Torah or law and that tithes have to be given to the priest. To find out what the Melchizedek tithe meant one has to not only read this passage, but also read on to verses 22 & 23.

From verse 18 – 20 it is clear that this was not Abraham’s belongings which were tithed, but rather the booty or loot he had gathered from conquering the enemy.

Gen:14:22: And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,

Gen: 14:23: That I will not take from a thread even to a shoe latchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

Although he gave away 10% of the booty, he stated that he did not even want any of it, because it was not his.

It is also interesting to note that this was a ONCE OFF event, which never took place again.

Ninety percent and more of Scripture quoted for the purposes of pleading for tithes are taken out of context today. God says let few be teachers, because those teachers teaching the flock will be held accountable for what they teach.

A reminder: The Bible does not teach that money should not be used to preach the Gospel and to support brethren (not organisations) in the body of Christ – it is very obvious that mammon should be befriended for this purpose.

But to contort Scripture in this manner shows doctrinal ignorance – hopefully – that rather done so on purpose.

James:3:1: My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.]

Your allegiance, your tithe, should be given to the church where you are planted. Mal 3 speaks about the coming of Jesus and actually the Holy Spirit. In this we see that we should bring the tithe to the “storehouse” which is your church. Give to God what is God’s. It is God who should be honoured first because He is the source of all your income. Matt 22:17-21 (Undersigned by At Boshoff)

[Note:  Reading Mal 10 from verse 1 rather suggests that the audience addressed by God were the priests as already discussed. The “storehouse” is definitely not the New Testament church. The New Testament church is the bride of Christ and not a building built with brick and mortar.]

We work to build the kingdom of God, we shouldn’t work to meet our own needs. People can frustrate the work of God by withholding resources. Let’s evaluate ourselves and rectify places where maybe we’ve neglected to honour God with our finances. If you start today it is never too late.

[Note:  The Lord Jesus calls for heed to doctrine rather than finances and I do hope that Mr. Boshoff would rather be obedient to the Lord in the weightier matters.]

This past week-end we saw 470 people giving their lives to Jesus. We are here to possess the Promised Land. Thank you to every one of you for working hard throughout the year and inviting your world to CRC.

[Note:  Figures do not impress God. One such an example is: Exo 23:2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment:

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The quote Mr. Boshoff uses in Matthew 23 was discussed already and to conclude, using this verse as a basis for endorsing tithing is basically in support of what the Pharisees promoted – That Mr. Boshoff is teaching here and to the congregation is absolutely the same what the Pharisees were doing.

What is important however and of grave concern, are the proselytes made by CRC. This is also found in Matthew 23 the chapter in which the verse occurs that Mr. Boshoff uses to preach the diametric opposite to what the Lord Jesus says in this chapter: Mat 23:15  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Mat 23:16  Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?]

We had a fantastic harvest event in Cape Town last week. We saw the entire auditorium filled to the max. Ps. Aidan and Sharon are doing a great work in that city. I believe many good things are still heading our way in Cape Town.

[Note:  I suppose it is not worth mentioning all those pastors and lay persons who have left CRC and would like to see Mr. Boshoff repent of his ways.]

They have begun to lay the foundations for the Pretoria Building Project. We are so excited to see how things come together as we follow the instructions of God. As we are now in the time when we have to pay the contractors large sums of money every month, I urge you to give the money you pledged or whatever extra the Holy Spirit lays on your heart.

If you still want to contribute please e-mail finance@crc.org.za

The Kids’ Party is only a week away. Please take part in this as we are going
to make the day special for over 15 000 underprivileged children. If you would like to volunteer or make a donation please contact 051-525 2883.

[Note:  It is agreeable that feeding under privileged Children is a very good work, yet the concern remains what these poor children are being fed spiritually when such doctrine as discussed here is being preached.

Hitler once said that if the hearts of the children are won, the next generation will be won.

It is also fact the “Church” of Rome has built a multitude of schools and hospitals and proclaims ex-Cathedra that winning the minds of children before age 7 will ensure that they will be won permanently for the Mother “Church”.  I see the same happening at CRC so feeding children is an outward appearance coaxing them into a greater deception of being taught wrong doctrine

Remember what James wrote; if the correct faith is dead the works mean nothing.

It is the correct doctrine that will ensure the correct faith – this is why the works may be more detrimental to the children in the longer term.]

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Rudi

Santie

Santie, you wrote:

i actually worked for one of them. do not question, disagree or dare to differ

You are SOOOOOOOO right about this!! Although I wasn’t on their payroll, I might as well have been! They even said so! It got to the point that I was so busy with their churchianity and speaking their christianese that I lost what it was really all about.
I was so busy struggling through their presentations every Sunday morning, not understanding half of it and diagreeing with the rest of it. I left home on a Sunday morning 6 o’clock, leaving my wife and baby daughter at home because the Pastor (the main dude) tells you to keep your child quiet if he or she dares to make a noise. I was in charge of the R150,000-00 sound system and was responsible for switching off all the sound equipment, which meant I only returned home by 13:00. When I started talking about things, raising my concerns, I was accused of not wanting to work for God and my wife apparently suffered from post natal depression. I was asked why I only come to church when I am on duty (I was off once a month). I asked them which church they are referring to. The answer? Braam’s church.(Deborah – feel free to edit this name out but I am through protecting identities.) Not Jesus’s church!!
Don’t dare to mention Israels name either. Not unless you mean the church of cause. I am not sure off all of them but replacement theology is very popular here. God’s holy people have been replaced by their church.
On their website it says in big fat bold letters, The Doxa Deo Way (not God’s way?!?!). Their vision? Establishing God’s reign in 12 cities. Since when do we need to establish Gods reign ANYWHERE? Since when does God need us to do that anyway? Doesn’t this sound like Dominionism?
And the nonsence they preach about tithing will make the likes of At Boshoff very proud! In fact I know they will because they frequently organise trips to Oom Angus and last year when Rodney ‘Holy Ghost Bartender’ Howard-Brown went to Roebert’s church (River Ministries) in East London, they organised a minibus for the trip from PE as well. These false prophets are all endorsed by At as well.
I also know some of them took leave from work to sit and listen to Tod Bentley’s antics on GodTV.
I can go on and on but I’m afraid I might sound like a whinge. What I’m trying to say is that Doxa is about controlling people and even the Holy Spirit with their programs and schedules. When a friend of mine asked if the Praise & Worship (he was in the team) can be longer, they told him that the P&W team should produce a better product. We need to take a stand and confront these false prophets. Face to face.

Molon Labe you wrote:

I do not know who this guy in your article is, and I do not care

Why are you on this blog? I mean, what was the aim of your visit? Did you stumble upon it by accident or were you looking for something? If you dont know At Boshoff why are you defending him? Have you ever been to CRC Bfn? Have you ever listened to the nonsense he sells? Some of us have and out of our concern for fellow believers we want to warn them.

Deborah

Welcome back to civilisation! Oh, and yes, we have grown. In fact, while I was in Doxa, it felt like I was stuck. Luckily God sent me others to help me understand that I wasn’t alone and to help me understand and grow in the real Jesus.

God Bless!!

Chris

Molon, you need to study the Scripture a little more in detail. The Lord said if we love Him we will keep his commandments. Read the Bible not the Message or very new translations they are false – read what the commandments of God are the New Testament -n keeping them you will love the Lord.

Many of these commandments are to be critical in our evaluation of preachers -simply because there are those who look like ministers of light who infiltrate the chucrc to corrupt it.

It looks as if you have some knowledge regarding the emerging church and that you disprove of it.

At Boshoff and CRC is part of the emerging church – which you obviously do not agree with. Are you not contradicting yourself here?

Concerning holiness and saying that those who point out error have a hollier than thou attitude – well Paul, Peter, James, John, Luke etc had the same attitude and we are to be immitaters of them – the Scriptures say.

After all the will of God is your sanctification 1 Thess 4 – and this sanctification is nothing less than a growth in holiness.

If you think holiness is not achievable consider the Greek “Hagios” which simply menas to seperate yourself from something that is wrong – that is holiness and it is a command in th Scriptures. Without holiness you will not enter the Kingdom.

So in your excersising your godliness you need to break with many ungoldly errors – this is growth in grace.

This is exactly why people need to be warned against error and false prophets etc.

As Paul wrote to Timothy: 1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Desmond

Reading many of the comments leaves me very concerned by what is happening in the “church” arenas in the world, especially in the USA which has found its way into our country. No doubt we are living in the closing days of which Jesus warned us to guard against deception.We certainly need discernment more than ever now as we see every one doing their own thing. Humility is greatly conspicious by its abscence as we see the flambouyancy and commercialising of the Gospel. And its all done in the name of our precious Lord and Saviour. Men who mount the podiums and stages with all their degrees i.e Titles such as Doctors, Bishops, Reverends, Pastors, Dominees,Rabbi,s Apostles etc. whilst Jesus said to call no man by title, for we are all brethren. A Bishop, Pastor etc. is just another Elder which are all ministries, not titles. Jesus became the son of man by example, “took upon him the form of a servant and humbled himself and became obedient, even to the death of the cross” There will be some great dissapointments one day. It is best to start over and examine where we stand as workmen when we divide the word of truth.
Paul has warned how certain men will come and preach. This is very important (2Cor.14:13)Quote;
“For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And marvel not; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is NO GREAT THING IF HIS MINISTERS ALSO BE TRANSFORMED AS THE MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS” unquote(That’s scary)
I hope my comments have been edifying. I am a senior citizen who have been following Jesus for just on fifty years by his grace. I was fortunate to have found Salvation as a young man.
I have become very aware of how we sould conduct our vocation in life and for the Lord to “teach me to number my days and to apply my heart unto wisdom” (Ps.90:12)
May the Lord grant us wisdom and grace.

Desmond

See above.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Desmond

Thanks for your comment. And you are 100% correct. I wish everyone stuck in the church system would start over and re-examine what they have been taught just to make sure it’s true or not. But no one even reads their bibles, so the chances of that happening is zero. Very sad.

Desmond

Thanks Deborah, The scripture is our home base to establish truth. Solomon said “there is a way that seems right unto a man” Prov.14:12. So true! We all think we are right until God proves us wrong. The secret is to accept it without debate. That’s humility, and then faith comes into action. Many ride on a high horse until it bolts and then we fall very hard. Its best to get off it while we can.
The same applies in our Spiritual lives.
I give voice to many things that’s occurring in our world today. For a free copy of my book “The Road Ahead” Please write to P.O. Box 3147 Jefreys Bay 6330.

anon

I visited CRC Cape Town since last year and have discovered that 90% of their sermons as well as the focus in cell groups is on wealth and prosperity. One evening the pastor said if we don’t tithe we will bring a curse on ourselves. They also like to play a video where they threaten “not to tithe = robbing God”. If I argue that my giving money to the poor and to needy family mambers constitutes my tithe, then they very legalistically disagree and say that charity is over and above the tithe and that the tithe must go directly to the church (the storehouse). This begs the question: if they are then not using the tithes for charity, what are they using them for? I have found the general atmosphere to be very autocratic and nobody is allowed to question anything. As soon as you question anything, you get parrot fashion answers as everyone has been brainwashed with the same doctrine. At Boschoff recommends that congregants read books by Fred Price who is a false preacher of the prosperity gospel. Oh yes, and At Boshoff’s spiritual father was apparently once upon a time none other than Ray MaCauley…another big prosperity gospel preacher. There is also a sense of spiritual pride amongst certain leaders…because the focus is on becoming “super-spiritual giants” and the bigger your faith the bigger your reward. Of course if you are poor and sick, then according to them it means that your faith is lacking and you are not spiritually mature enough. One of the leaders said that the aim of CRC is to get every member to be so attractive to the outside world by becoming prosperous due to attending the church that this will attract more people to join CRC. They have clearly lost the focus of the Great Commission of Jesus Christ: which is not to make the church bigger and wealthier and more comfortable in our church pews, BUT TO GO OUT AND MAKE DISCPLES, HEAL THE SICK, SET THE CAPTIVES FREE, SPREAD THE GOOD NEWS!

Michael

At Boshoff conducted the funeral service of Reuben Kruger a famous Springbok rugby player who was part of the SA team that won the World Cup in 1995…most of team attended the funeral service including Francois Pienaar and other Springboks that came later…Gary Teichman.
This is what worries me that a man of such suspect and questionable doctrines has exposure to such influential gatherings…rather like Ray Macauley and Hansie Cronje during the Kings Commission. It is sad because they are peers and mentors to our youth that are so easily impressionable.
I am a great rugby and cricket fan and see many of the sporting heroes falling victims to sin that is so leniently winked and by-passed in influential charismatic circles…another one Jonty Rhodes (a confessing born-again Christian and an old boy of my old school) who left his covenant spouse to shack up in Cape Town with some young woman. Joost van der Westhuizen got caught up with a similar act of adultery.
Why is the church so terribly weak and cowardly and indifferent to blatant sin when it sullies the Son of God. We need tough, no-compromise and out-spoken Christian leaders to confront and admonish this type of thing.
None of us is sinless but it is unacceptable that people that claim to love Christ flaunt openly and do such terrible things that even shock the unbelievers and chase souls so far away from the One who came to die for our sins.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Michael

I believe At Boshoff is being groomed to replace Ray Macauley.

The sports teams of SA are through and through caught up in Latter Rain teaching and that is what why profess to the public as being Christian when it’s not – hence the fruits are rotten.

Chris

Hi Debs, I agree that uncle Attie will take over from Ray. It is sad to see how most people follow follow Ray and At, as Rev. 13 says – all the world will fall prey to the beast.
Keep up the good work – I know what you are doing is a lonely watch up in the tower where the wind and rain is.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Chris

Today the wind and rain is a bit extra strong… but I’ll be ok. Thank you for everything!

Chris

Hi Debs, no problem. I realize that the race you are running is not easy and I pray that you will have someone to help.

Dion

Hi Debs, long time no speak. You’re such a blessing to so many and you must continue standing strong in the faith… no matter how tough or how lonely or how scary.., you must stand strong. If you wanna call me feel free my sister.
PS. Hi there Chris!

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Hi Dion

Thank you for your comment. I really appreciate it.

Sipho Mnyakeni

Wow. To the website admin. Thanks for daring. I have been having sessions on my facebook, commenting on teh church related issues and sychopants of these false teachers will swallow you live because they prefer to defend the SERMON rather than the WORD. I ma glad just under my nose is such a ministry. I hope we can interact and continue to sound a warning alarm to the church. I ma in Bloemfontein at a campus based church. At the core of my teaching is TEST ALL THINGS and the Pastor is NOT THE BOSS Jesus is.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Dear Sipho

I am very happy that you are happy :) Thank you for your comment! If you are interested Chris is in Bloemfontein as well. Can you please give me an email address that I can give to him so you can communicate?

anon

I like the comment by Sipho that the pastor is not the boss, but Jesus is!

I had an experience at CRC where I was just a visitor and I kept being pressurised by someone in the leadership to join the church and being told that I must submit to the authority that God has placed over me…….even though I was just a visitor! Does anyone know if there is any validity in the idea that one is under the “covering” of the church leadership/the church that one is a member of? To me it felt more like manipulation and control. I told them that I am visiting different churches because I am still trying to find out where God wants me to be situated (because I actually have a calling on my life – but I did not tell them about my calling because they keep on telling me I can’t get more involved in programs until I am more spiritually mature!).

I also told them that I do not believe in the prosperity gospel as this is not the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Which then begs the question…….who or what are they really worshipping and praying to in that church? … A false altar??

They also endorse word-faith/positive confession theology (which I think just results in many people lying because they are not allowed to state anything negative even when they are sick or poor or sad). Another thing that made me uncomfortable there is the way they teach people to pray in tongues…I was told to babble along and make up words…I don’t think this is the true gift of speaking in tongues. It doesn’t seem that people are being led by the Spirit when praying in tongues (but I could be wrong).

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Yeah isn’t that just the coolest saying ever…

>> the pastor is not the boss, but Jesus is!

Robbie

Hi Debs.

Anon re:Covering

Old John Bevere (and N.A.R.) effort following his book “UNDER COVER” in

More and more people are becoming concerned with the rise of this theology because it has led to spiritual abuse, controlling church leadership and spiritual shipwreck.

http://coveringandauthority.com/

Dion

Hi Debs, Hope you’re still standing strong my sister. Saw Chris yesterday; gave me a book written by Nick Maartens. Book is a must read unfortunately only in Afrikaans. Many people on your blog will greatly benefit if they attend a few Sunday Morning services at a local Pretoria based Fellowship called “Tekiah” meaning “a call to repentance”. Many of their questions will be answered by the Fellowship Pastor Louis Reyneke. Also at Elijah Ministries in JHB – Pastor there is PJ Contat. If they want they can contact me to arrange directions etc. You’re welcome to call when you need to Debs. Chris said he’ll talk to you later… Hang in there… till the end…

michael barnard

my hart is so sore for you guys

its sad how you despize a church that is making such a profound impact on South Africa and bringing Gods magnificent love to the masses

here is a word for you guys:
MAT 23 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.”

are YOU Mr Dion Knoesen prepared to go out and make desiples of many nations as the bible comands us to do ??????? or is it easyer to just sit and “Critique” wherever YOU find offence

yes i give money to the church not becase im forced to do so but because i have purposed it in my hart to give to expand Gods kingdom what is the big deal

im sorry you guys are so hurt

i pray that our God blesses you abundently in all you put your hand to and that he may shine his glorios love apon you more then ever before !!!!!!

no church is perfect but lets work together to make it stronger not devide it

Robbie

Michael,

I can’t believe you quote Matt 23 and still are “forced” to give money to your church.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

And you dare call Dion a Pharisee?

God does not want your favours (money)Michael… He wants your heart… and He wants you to get the truth..
Keep on reading.

Chris

Michael, you really need to study the Word in depth.
Have you read the article “Honor God” at the beginning of these comments to see how At Boshoff contorts Scripture to suck money from congregants?
Read the article and address the issue then read Matt. 23 again and hopefully you would see that At is the Pharisee and not Dion.
Why has At Boshof fand his pastors not responded to the invitation to participate in the debate.
By the way you are welcome to join forces with At Boshoff to attend and support him the debate – but alas I already know that such request will never be met.
It is a pity that many Christians are not even schooled in the milk let alone the meat.
I always hear the same clichés – the church is not perfect – well according to the Scripture the doctrine of the church should be – sinless not totally but increasingly sinless yes – holiness is an obedient growth.
The fact is that we are not talking about being perfectly sinless, but we are talking about being perfect in doctrine.
Sort out doctrine then your Christian church will be much better off.
These pastors are teaching worldliness – something Jesus condemns completely.
I’d rather listen to Jesus than to At.

Unknown

Hi All,

Came across the website tonight and obviously started reading the comments as well as the article quoted at the beginning. My wife and I have been attending CRC Pretoria for almost 3 years. At first we enjoyed the church and it came to a point where I could not wait to hear AT preach..then suddenly, my wife started to loose interest in the church. We went through a rough patch financially, spoke to one of the pastors(not mentioning names) and never heard from them again, this was in the time I was a cell leader. I focussed on God to bring us through this patch, which happened at the end of the day. Praise the Lord!!!!Then it started, hearing every Sunday how we need to give more money(tithe) as we are busy expanding the Kingdom(new building project) because that is the vision God gave him. Then we started questioning them…how do you expand the Kingdom by building a bigger church..Isn’t expanding the Kingdom of God doing things like supporting the poor in the name of Jesus( I might be missing the plot here), or talking to people about how God changed your life or what HE did in your life? Sharing? Finding lost souls, ministering and praying from them? Isn’t expanding the Kingdom of God taking the R120 million and helping the poor and feeding the hungry and giving to the people who does not have anywhere to go? Building or refurbishing hotels or buildings and opening kitchens to feed the people who does not have an income and teach them the Gospels, teach them about Jesus, about God, about the Bible? Tithing into these people as a non-profit organization? I migjt be wrong, but that’s the way I see it..please correct me if I am wrong

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Unknown

You are not wrong ;) What happened to you is that you landed in the clutches of a cult – to put it bluntly. In fact the Kingdom of God has already come is JESUS CHRIST ;) We don’t need to establish the Kingdom of God on earth for God before Jesus Christ returns.

Can I ask you to please read this article:
and then this article: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/04/13/the-manifest-sons-of-god-belief-of-angus-buchan/
and then this article:
and then this article:
and then this article: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/16/false-foundation-of-five-fold-ministry/
and then this article: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/10/06/the-gnostic-roots-of-the-latter-rainword-of-faith-movement/
and then this article: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/01/17/are-prophets-for-today-or-has-prophecy-ceased/

anon

I agree with “unknown”

The church is not a building, WE are the church because the Holy Spirit lives inside us. We should be modeling Jesus’ ministry when He was on earth…..which was to preach the good news, heal the sick, set free the oppressed, etc etc. Jesus’s ministry did NOT focus on prosperity and on teaching people how to become wealthy or blessed by tithing. Jesus did not even teach people how to have a church hierarchy. Jesus’s ministry did NOT teach financial prosperity but rather spiritual prosperity. Jesus Himself WORKED as a carpenter, and His ministry was FREE. CRC’s focus is on getting people to tithe so they can expand their church where congregants fill their comfortable pews every sunday….but congregants are not taught how to become disciples and how to go out into the world to fulfil the great commission and to continue Jesus’s ministry.

CRC focuses very heavily on financial prosperity…tithing and sowing a seed brings a reutnr etc. My husband also got caught in the trap of tithing even though he did not have a regular income….instead of putting the little bits of money that came in here and there into his savings he gave them to the church and as a result there where months where we almost couldn’t pay the rent. I do believe that charity starts at home and that we should be paying our rent/feeding our children/paying off our debt/helping our unemployed parents before paying for a church building. I am pretty sure that Jesus would not condemn us for sorting out our own living situation first – and I highly doubt that CRC would ever have helped us out when we couldn’t pay the rent or put food on the table.

To me these churches like CRC operate like a huge pyramid scheme where we are all the suckers at the bottom who are keeping them going and enriching the leadership. The prosperity gospel only works for those who are sitting right at the top! Why don’t the leaders sow or tithe a million rand and get a 10-fold return in order to build their next church building? Why are they using our tithes (which they obtain through emotional manipulation by threatening that we will get cursed if we don’t tithe and that we are robbing God if we don’t tithe)? Why don’t they prove to us how their laws of sowing financial seeds work with their own money?

anon

Sorry – typing error in the first row of paragraph 2:
CRC focuses very heavily on financial prosperity…tithing and sowing a seed brings a RETURN etc

SSBG

Hi Dion, will you please send me contact details/directions of “Tekiah” fellowship in Pretoria? My and my family are looking for a place to worship where the “unadulterated” gospel of the good news is preached.
Thank you, SSBG (sinner saved by grace)

Deborah (Discerning the World)

SSBG

I will give Dion your email address so he can contact you :)

FOOLS!!!!!!!

What a bunch of rubbish….I just can’t believe that people will put so much energy into slandering anyone. You are guys are all so pathetic. ALL AUTHORITY IS FROM GOD!!!!!!
If a pastor is wrong God will take care of him.
If Satan is called the accuser of the brethren,I’ll so far as to say that this blog is demonic!!!! Bunch of self-righteous christians who will never amount to anything…
You bunch of brood vipers!!!!!!!!!!
Just like the Pharisees who saw the works of God with their own eyes yet accused Jesus of being a worker of Satan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOu people are slandering a man of God!!!!!!!!!!!
YOu will all give account for the words you have written on this blog.
You guys are all such a sad bunch of people!!!
If you have nothing positve to say…then shut up

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