SDA AMAZING DISCOVERIES at Mosaïek Church

Amazing DiscoveriesUrgent warning about Seventh Day Adventists (SDA) Evengelistic drive 2010 at the Mosaïek Theatre in Randburg from 10 November to 4 December 2010:  AMAZING DISCOVERIES 2010.

The Seventh Day Adventist church currently has adverts on TV (SABC) and Radio (702) regarding a FREE presentation at the Mosaic Theatre on Egypt, Jews and Palestine, the anti-Christ, the universe, etc., and is being promoted as AMAZING DISCOVERIES. They just don’t STATE UPFRONT that this is an evangelistic outreach from the Seventh Day Adventist Church.

Beware of Amazing Discoveries: it is a website of the Seventh Day Adventists and these FREE “presentations” are part of their 2010 Evangelistic Drive by John Carter.

AMAZING DISCOVERIES

Professor Walter J. Veith (from the University of the Western Cape) has been their jewel in their crown for many years. He is seemingly very credible in teaching the Bible, the end times and exposing the Roman Catholic Church. But he is a deceiver because he states that the Roman Catholic Church changed the Sabbath Day from Saturday to Sunday, completely ignoring the Word of God in the book of Acts and how the apostles met on the first day of the week, the day of Jesus’ resurrection.  The Lord Jesus Christ is our Sabbath.

SDA have a gospel of works as well as a false prophetess, Ellen G White. They believe that the doctrine of the Sabbath is still a law by maintaining that because it’s part of the Ten Commandments, those who do NOT keep the Saturday Sabbath are not saved and that during the Tribulation that the Mark of the Beast all those who do not keep the Sabbath.  They have their own bible (Clear Word Bible) which is widely used in SDA churches, which contains serious false teachings concocted by Ellen G White.

“We believe the revelation and inspiration of both the Bible and Ellen White’s writings to be of equal quality. The superintendence of the Holy Spirit was just as careful and thorough in one case as in the other”.  [Emphasis added]  Ministry Magazine, Oct. 1981

The following is from the SDA Sandton website:

2. JOHN CARTER CAMPAIGN 10 November – 4 December 2010

The GRC, a group of lay evangelists from the Gauteng region, are partnering with the Carter Report and Hope Channel to present “Amazing Discoveries 2010”. From 10 November until 4 December, people living in the Johannesburg, South Africa, area can attend this campaign at the Mosaïek Theatre in Randburg. For the FIRST TIME IN SOUTH AFRICA’S HISTORY, they are planning to storm the city with television ads. The presses will soon be rolling off 500,000 colour brochures, and 100,000 homes will receive a beautiful hand addressed invitation. The campaign will be broadcast LIVE from the Mosaïek Theatre via microwave link to Sentech and then to homes and churches on the Ku-band (small dish) satellite system. The TV broadcast will start on Friday night the 12th of November from 20:00 – 21:00 on most nights until the 4th of December. Don’t miss this exciting series.  www.sandtonchurch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=37&Itemid=68

The Mosaiek church in which the Theatre is located is run by Johan Geyser, Trevor Hudson and Dr Gys du Plessis, with associates Stephan Joubert, Koos van der Merwe, Braam van der Schyff, Theo Geyser and Kola de Klerk. They are linked to the (Mosaïek Church in Los Angeles) run by Erwin McManus and the (Mosaïek Christian Church in Rocklin California) by Frank and Dyan Colacurcio. Other friends include Bill Hybels (Willow Creek Community Church in Chicago) and (Velocity Culture) Ron Martoia and (Woodmen Valley Chapel Colorado) Matt Heard. Stephan Joubert is linked to the Dutch Reformed Church, Moreleta Park Church in Pretoria.

The Mosaïek church is a dark place, filled with New Age teaching, contemplative prayer and other occult practices.

Pastor Gavin Sklar Chik who spoke at the Mosaïek  church in Fairlands not so long ago taught at his Brackendowns Baptists church (in Johannesburg, Alberton) that people “are to breathing out sin and breathing in righteousness”. He still teaches at the Baptist Theological College and he is now known as the Baptist Mystic!

To answer the question regarding the Sabbath:

THIS is the Gospel Truth of the matter:

See complete article here:  Jesus Christ is our Sabbath Rest

1) Jesus Christ kept the Sabbath because HE WAS THE LAW – (Jesus Christ kept the Sabbath because HE, was the Law of the Sabbath.)
2) Jesus Christ
taught the Sabbath by having kept the Sabbath because he was still on earth and Lord of the Sabbath Day on earth.
3) When Jesus was crucified many miraculous things took place, one of these being that Jesus Christ
fulfilled the Law and it was written in our hearts (all 10 commandments)
4) Jesus became our Sabbath
REST in all born again Christians – we do not need to WORK anymore to keep this commandment because the HOLY SPIRIT now abides in each and every born again believer.  

Hence all truly born again believers keep all commandants of God.

See this article on the SDA church: 

SDA Church – Seeking and Finding New Havens of Error and Deceit

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Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. (Rom 14:4-9)

Eliseus

if Jesus was IN any of your Churches He would not say COME OUT, he would be saying COME IN.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Dear Eliseus

If Jesus was in your church building He would say COME OF OF HER and get born again into the real bride of Christ.

You see if you stopped being a SDA and followed Jesus Christ the Son of God instead of your Prophetess you would read the bible and it says:

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Who is the Her? It’s Babylon. All false teaching comings from Babylon, the most important one being the Roman Catholic Church which all false churches branch from. Think of the RCC (Babylon) as being an octopus and the legs of an octopus are false churches: SDA, Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, word of faith, etc etc etc.]

Hennie

I am amazed to read all these comments, and see people who claim to be Christians, place themselves in God’s position to judge and bad mouth others. Surely it is everyone’s own responsibility to seek the truth and listen to God’s Voice and Word. The false prophets, pastors and ministers will be judged and dealt with by God. To be self appointed judges of people’s relationships with God is probably nothing short of blasphemy.

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Hennie,

Paul continually warned his brethren against false teachers. Was he a self-appointed judge and close on blaspheming God? What would you do if your kid started using drugs? Are you going to say: “God will deal with the matter. I am going to fold my holy arms, sit back on my holly little buttocks and feast my holy eyes on how drugs are destroying my kid whom I love so dearly”? Are you crazy?

The Bible clearly says if you do not warn them, their blood is on your hands. Have you looked at your holy hands lately?

Deborah (discerning the world)

Dear Hennie

The Bible in fact tells us that we as Christians are to judge righteously. Are you a SDA? Aren’t you told by your church to never ever judge aka think for yourself regarding your prophetess’ teachings? I do believe that is so. You are expected to blindly follow everything she says. Now here is a question. When are you going to test her teachings against the word of God?

Robbie

Hennie, I will do the reading for you and you don’t even have to pay me. Just be a man and admit you were in error… Or SDA as Tom asked. (SAME THING)

The Bible Admonishes Us To Expose Error!!!
We are to TRY them. “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they be of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world” (I John 4: 1). All doctrine and teachers are to be tried according to the Word of God. “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isa. 8:20). Every message, messenger, and method is to be judged according to the Word of God. The church at Ephesus was commended because they had “tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars ” (Rev. 2:2). The church at Pergamos was rebuked because they tolerated those that held “the doctrine of Balaam, ” and “the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate” (Rev. 2:14,15). It is never right to tolerate false teachers, but they are to be tried by the Word of God, and exposed. Of course those who want to disobey the Word of God will seek by every means to avoid this teaching.

We are to MARK them and AVOID them. “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them ” (Rom. 16:17). Those whose conduct and teaching contradicts the Word of God are to be marked and to be avoided. This requires discernment and judgment in the light of the Bible. The ecumenicalists, new evangelicals, and compromising fundamentalists will resist any effort to obey this Scripture. They cannot be marked and avoided, unless they are judged according to the Word of God.

We are to REBUKE them. “Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith ” (Titus 1: 13). This was written to Titus, because there Were those going from house to house and subverting whole houses with false doctrine (v. 10-16). Oral Roberts, Robert Schuller, Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson, and others are subverting whole houses with their false doctrine today. Are we to sit silently by, while they do this, without rebuking and admonishing people to avoid their teaching? No, the faithful servant of the Lord is to be “Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers ” (Titus 1:9).

We are to have NO FELLOWSHIP with them. “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them ” (Eph. 5:11). Reprove means to censure, condemn, find fault, rebuke, and to refute. How can we obey this Scripture unless we try them by the Word of God?

We are to WITHDRAW from them. “Now we command you, brethren, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which ye received of us ” (II Thess. 3:6). We are to withdraw from those whose doctrine and conduct does not conform to the Word of God. The context clearly shows that obedience to sound doctrine is what Paul has in mind, for he says, “if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet, count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother” (II Thess. 3:14-15). Paul admonished Timothy to “withdraw thyself ” from those who “consent not to wholesome words … and to the doctrine which is according to godliness ” (I Tim. 6:3-5).

We are to TURN AWAY from them. Concerning the last days, he says that some will have “a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. from such turn away” for such people are “never able to come to the knowledge of the truth” (11 Tim. 3:5,7). How can we turn away from them if we do not identify them, and this requires that their message be compared to the Word of God. It is the business of the true preacher to: “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine ” (II Tim. 4:2). This is usually an unpopular and thankless task but it is the duty of the God-called man.

We are NOT to RECEIVE them into our house. “If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds ” (11 John 10, I 1). There is no doubt about who John is speaking about, it is ” Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ… ” (v.9). By radio, TV, music and literature, false prophets are brought into the homes of many Christians today. Brethren, this ought not to be!

We are to REJECT HERETICS. “A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject ” (Titus 3: 10). We should reject those who deny redemption by the blood of Christ. There are many who deny this or some other doctrine of the Word of God. If they will not respond to being admonished, then they are to be rejected.

We are to look out for those who preach another gospel. Paul warned about those who preached “another Jesus … another spirit … or another gospel” (II Cor. 11:4). How can we know them unless we judge their Jesus, their spirit, and their gospel by the Word of God? Paul called such preachers “false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ” (11 Cor. II: 13). He explains in v. 14-15 that these preachers are the ministers of Satan. The God-called man must be just as faithful today in exposing the ministers of Satan.

Paul warned the Galatians about those who “pervert the gospel of Christ.” He also said, “If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” (See Gal. 1:6-9). Multitudes today are preaching a perverted gospel. Those who teach salvation by baptism, or by works, are teaching a perverted gospel. Those who preach a salvation that you can lose, are preaching a perverted gospel. The charismatics, Catholics, many evangelicals, and many fundamentalists (?) are preaching a perverted gospel. Yet, we are supposed to cooperate with them in evangelism and Christian work, according to many today. If we fail to expose these false prophets, then we have betrayed Christ and His gospel.

We are to SEPARATE from them. “Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch no the unclean thing; and I will receive you ” (II Cor. 6:17). This makes it plain. God’s people are to come out of apostasy and religious error. How can any Bible believer remain in the National Council or World Council of Churches? How can they remain among compromising evangelicals and wishy-washy fundamentalists?

James Clubb

I have read many comments on this thread, and I am saddened at the amount of gossip that I’m seeing thrown into this conversation. Let me explain. I worked for a Christian Ministry for over 9 years as their chief audio engineer recording and editing every sermon for almost 10 years. The man who who was the principle speaker for this ministry who has been teaching from the Bible for over 20 years came under attack by a prominent “Christian Watch Dog” organization who had published some articles about this man slandering him in front of the body of Christ. Because I knew this man personally, and because I had listened to every one of his sermons for almost 10 years, I knew that the accusations were false. This “Christian Watch Dog” organization did not contact this man to ask him personally about theses accusations before they published them. They just published them, and much damage was done to the body of Christ due to this gossip. I am not going to enter into the argument about the validity of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. They are only one of over 500 denominations that worship on the seventh day Sabbath. The point that I do want to make is this: Before we make any accusations against an individual or an organization that claims to be part of the Body of Christ, we must be absolutely certain that we have all of the facts correct. And that we have gotten all of the facts from first hand sources. Otherwise we stand before Jesus guilty of Gossip. I wonder how many people in this conversation who are calling Ellen White a false prophet have read at least one of her books. I wonder how many people who are calling the Seventh Day Adventist Church a cult have ever been to one of their church services. You can find extremists in every single denomination on planet earth that do not represent the core beliefs of that denomination. And some of them go on to write books and articles “warning” the body of Christ, when in reality they could be spreading lies and may be guilty of slandering the Body of Christ. My admonition to everyone who thinks that they know what is “truth”, Be careful you are not just regurgitating something you heard someone else say against a person or organization, if you are, you are guilty of gossip, and you could find yourself speaking against Jesus Christ Himself.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Dear James Clubb

First you say “I am not going to enter into the argument about the validity of the Seventh Day Adventist Church.”

Then you say ” I wonder how many people in this conversation who are calling Ellen White a false prophet have read at least one of her books. I wonder how many people who are calling the Seventh Day Adventist Church a cult have ever been to one of their church services. You can find extremists in every single denomination on planet earth that do not represent the core beliefs of that denomination. ”

Then you enter into defending them.

Listen bud, there are hundreds of cults out there and ALL of them are false including the SDA.

James Clubb

You seem to have missed my point so I’ll restate it. Too many people make judgements against other people based on hear say and mis information without doing any research of their own using first hand information sources. Since you commented on my post and have stated clearly that the SDA church is a cult, I will assume you have done this first hand information research and I will ask you. How many SDA church members have you talked to? How many Ellen White books have you read? How many SDA Church services have you attended?

Deborah (Discerning the World)

James Clubb

Cleary YOU are not getting what I’m saying. YOU are wrong, YOU are an SDA.

James Clubb

You did not answer my questions concerning the fact that too many people make judgements against other people based on something they heard someone else say, instead of doing any research of their own using first hand information sources. so, I will ask you again. How many SDA church members have you talked to? How many Ellen White books have you read? How many SDA Church services have you attended?

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

James Clubb

Do you need to talk to Jesus Christ personally to ascertain whether He speaks the truth or do you read his Word and the things someone else says about Him in his Word?

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

James Clubb

True Christians will always judge all things because they are commanded to do so righteously. If the things they judge are not in harmony with Scripture they reject it outright because they know Satan is a liar. (John 8:44)

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. (1 Co 2:15)

If you do not judge all things, you are not spiritually mature. it could even be that you are not even saved as yet.

But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. (Joh 10:2-5)

marinda

YAHUVEH promised to send Eliyah.(Mal.4) Eliyah is here and now, reconciling the Fathers (founders of our faith) and the children (the Christians) If all Christians could hearken to the voice of Eliyah, South Africa could be healed… The LAW still stand today and trespassing the LAW is sin…its not that hard to keep ten rules is it? here are 134 end time prophecies spoken through one of the Eliyahs under anointing of the HOLY SPIRIT …turning the children back to the fathers.This is NOT a Seventh day Adventist movement- it’s called a JEWISH MESSIANIC PENTECOSTAL ministry. Warning about the dangers of Sunday churches during the Great Tribulation…and urges people to break free from it now for satan had an agenda when he changed the day of rest from Sabbath to Sunday..a shocking agenda.Prophet Eliyah prophecy about false preachers, false rapture date setters, false blue-beam rapture, gold dust revival, wolves in sheep clothing, keeping the LAW,and the true nature of the 5 wise virgins..These prophecies have been translated into more than 26 world languages.Not everyone in church will be raptured. Here are 134 end time prophecies for the Bride of YAHUSHUA and for the guests at the marriage supper of the LAMB. http://amightywind.com/prophecy-index/

Tom Lessing (Discerning the World)

Marinda wrote “YAHUVEH promised to send Eliyah.(Mal.4) Eliyah is here and now, reconciling the Fathers (founders of our faith) and the children (the Christians) If all Christians could hearken to the voice of Eliyah, South Africa could be healed…”

I don’t think so. The Eliyah you are speaking of is a false one, just another one of the thousands who are now roaming the earth today. How do I know? Well, Jesus Himself said so.

But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist. (Mat 17:12-13)

Please don’t be carried away by false prophets, my dear. It is very dangerous, to say the least. You should rather hearken to what Jesus Christ said and not to what a so-called prophet by the name of Eliyah says.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” (Joh 10:1-5)

Your Elijah is a stranger. Are you a sheep of Jesus Christ? Please make sure that you are before it is too late.

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! (2 Co 13:5)

If you fail the test in John 10:1-5 then I must add with sadness that you cannot say you are a saved Christian and need to be saved immediately.

Vincent Holloway

Do we then make the LAW void through FAITH? God forbid! Instead, we establish the LAW.
Romans 3:31

He blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us and contrary to us, and He took it out of the way, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed authorities and powers, He made a show of them openly, triumphing over them by the cross.
Colossians 2:14-15

For all who rely on the works of the law are under the curse. For it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the Book of the Law, to do them.” Now it is evident that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, for “The just shall live by faith.”But the law is not of faith, for “The man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law by being made a curse for us—as it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— so that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Galatians 3:12

Dear Miranda

We have a problem…you said “Eliyah is here and now, reconciling the Fathers (founders of our faith) and the children (the Christians) If all Christians could hearken to the voice of Eliyah, South Africa could be healed…”

The bible says there are 2 end time witnesses dressed in sackloth duringthe the Tribulation that witness to ISREAL for 3.5 years. They are so powerful, no one can kill them. The antiChrist himself murders the 2 witnesses in JERUSALEM after 3.5 years and their bodies will lie in the street for 3 and a half days for all to see before they are resurrected from the dead by God and they ascend up to heaven.

    Rev 11:1-19
    1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

1) Where is the other witness?
2) We are not in the Tribulation yet so why is this so called witness here already?
3) The REAL Wintness are only around for 3.5 years, how long has this guy been around?
4) Who are the founders of the faith? The bible says the church was built on the foundations of the 12 Apostles and Prophets “because you have been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone.” (Ephesians 2:20) Have they too come back to life??
5) Why must we harken the voice of this strange Elijah when the 2 witnesses of Revelation points the people to Jesus Christ the Son of God
6) Jesus came to fulfill the Law, how do you manager to keep the laws? (all 613 commandments – 248 do’s, and 365 don’ts – Of the 248 positive commands, only 126 are currently applicable. And of the 365 negative commands, only 243 are still applicable. So in total, nowadays, 369 laws are still in effect.) Good luck 🙂
7) If only a portion of believers are raptured BEFORE the tribulation starts how do you know you are one of them? Have you kept all laws to the letter? Is that the prerequisite to be raptured, Keeping ALL (369) laws?
8) Jesus is our Sabbath REST, “For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.” (Matthew 12:8) When we are born again Jesus is in us and we in Him. “Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.” (1 John 4:13) No amount of keeping any day holy is going to get you into heaven. If Jesus Christ is not in you, giving you rest and peace then you have a problem.
9) The mark of the beast is a MARK on the hand or forehead “And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: The mark is not keeping a specific day holy. There are plenty of false religions/cults who keep the sabbath (Saturday) holy.
10) You say it’s a “JEWISH MESSIANIC PENTECOSTAL MINISTRY”. Are you Jewish?
11) You my dear as hard as you are trying to keep the law are breaking one rather significant law, and that is the “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”. (Exodus 20:3) You are following this false Elijah fellow who is from Satan himself.
12) You said “If all Christians could hearken to the voice of Eliyah, South Africa could be healed…” Interesting, I thought Jesus Christ IS the physician, the one who saves not Elijah. (Mark 2:17)
13) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY – Jesus healed a man on a Sabbath day and it was the Pharisees that accosted Him because He broke one of the 10 commandments. See article: https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/07/07/jesus-christ-is-our-sabbath-rest/

Maghanga Sylvester

It is true the day was changed from Saturday to Sunday. But does it really matter?
Can someone read Roman 14:5-6 and tell me what did Paul mean when he said about holy days?

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Dear Sylvester

Romans14:5-6 means this:

Paul is saying that the one that is weak in faith (a Jew that has newly converted to Christianity) must not be looked down upon and judged for his doubtfulness with regards to keeping the law or not keeping the law.

The Jew now converted to be a Christian, might be one who is still under law as too things clean and unclean or has difficulty now regarding Holy days. The brother who is strong in the Christian faith believes he may as a Christian eat all things, raising NO question as to ceremonial cleanliness. The weak brother is still afraid he will defile himself if he eats of what has been offered to idols or is not “Kosher” – according to Levitical law.

The one who is spiritually strong must not look with contempt upon his baby Christian brother. But it must be known as Paul states in Romans that the weak one (the newly converted to Christianity) is NOT allowed to accuse the stronger of insincerity or inconsistency in eating kosher food or keeping the Jewish Sabbath. While the strong Christian sees ALL DAYS ALIKE and ALL DAYS devoted to the GLORY of our Lord Jesus Christ, each must seek to act before God and be “fully persuaded in his own mind.” Who has given permission for given one servant to regulate another? Both are accountable to one Master, and He recognizes the integrity of heart.

So these verses boil down to Jews converting to Christianity who are unsure regarding the keeping of the law or not keeping the law. As for Gentiles who convert to Christianity we never came from Jewish Law, so there is no need for us to now start following Jewish law.

Hope that settles that question  :smile:

Sylvester Maghanga

Dear Deborah,
Thanks you so much. Also elaborate on Romans 14:5 only without going to verse 6. Only Verse 5 of chapter 14.
Thanks

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Hi Sylvester

You need to read that verse in context with other verses in the bible. Pulling 1 verse out and asking someone to say what it means without looking at verses surrounding it is a common mistake 90% of people make. It’s what false Christian religions do, they grab 1 verse out of the bible and give a meaning to it that is totally false to deceive -they did not take into account the passage and chapter and who was being spoken too at the time.

It’s like you tell someone a story and that person goes on and tells your story to others but instead of telling the whole story they chose to pick out certain sentences and relate those instead. And what happens? It’s a totally different story.

Romans 14:5 has been explained above.  :up:

James Clubb

‭It is tragic that most of those that call themselves Christians here in the USA have hearts very much like the Religious Hippocrates of Jesus’s day. Seeing only what they want to see in the word of God. Wanting to believe that Jesus is ok with them continuing to embrace their cherished sinful practices even after they ask Jesus to save them. Jesus did not die on the cross to give His children license to sin. He died on the cross to set us free from the power of sin, so that we can walk in the same power and freedom from sin that Jesus walked in. His life was our example of how we should live.
For Jesus said, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    Matthew 19:17 (KJV)
    And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

    John 14:15 (KJV)
    If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    John 15:10 (KJV)
    If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

    1 John 2:3 (KJV)
    And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

    1 John 3:22 (KJV)
    And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

    1 John 5:2 (KJV)
    By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

    1 John 5:3 (KJV)
    For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    Revelation 12:17 (KJV)
    And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Revelation 14:12 (KJV)
    Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    Matthew‬ ‭5:16-20‬ ‭(KJV‬‬)
    Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:16-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

These words of Jesus are worth repeating because these words seems to be the most overlooked words of Jesus in the Bible:

    Matthew‬ ‭5:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬
    “Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

[DTW combined your 3 comments into 1]

Sylvester Maghanga

Thank you so much for the explanation. Such discussios though sometimes are bitter to some people but they really help so much and people understand the Bible better.

Be blessed  :nod:

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Dear James

As a matter of interest, are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Hi Sylvester!

Thank you, you are a superstar  :nod:

James Clubb

I am a messianic jew

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Hi James  :hi:

I’m a bit confused as to whether you keep the Sabbath day or not…anyhow just as a matter of interest please read my comment to Sylvester

Did you know that Jesus healed a man on a Sabbath day and it was the Pharisees that accosted Him because He broke one of the 10 commandments. See article: https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2013/07/07/jesus-christ-is-our-sabbath-rest/

As Christians we keep all commandments, Jesus Christ who abides in us is our Sabbath rest.

the real dragon

don’t forget what happened to the white jewish germans remember how hitler killed them he usedd the german people and their faith as a weapon and sadly all of them forgot the most important thing jesus was a jew who made the bible the catholic am i wrong no who went to university divinty and was told other wise please talk to me on facebook and prove me wrong!.

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Dear the real dragon (interesting choice of name)

I’m struggling to understand what you are saying.

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