Roman Catholic Child Molesters/Priests
Years ago I read a book called Fear of the Collar – My Terrifying Childhood in Artane.
About Patrick Touher’s life in an Artane Industrial School. It was an education in cruelty and fear run by the Christian Brothers. The school become synonymous with the widespread abuse of children in Ireland in the 1940s and 1950s and is currently under police investigation. Patrick Touher’s story bears testament to the courage and determination of the children who were forgotten by society. Sent there at age eight, Patrick Touher spent eight long years in Artane Industrial School under the oppressive rule of the Christian Bothers. The book reveals shocking new material about physical and sexual abuse by the fearsome and brutal Christian Brothers who controlled the school and the boys who lived there. www.obrien.ie/book382.cfm
This is what you get when you worship the Roman Catholic sun god, the priests become child molesters.
Psychologist: Pope must quit
2010-10-01 14:17
Brussels – Pope Benedict XVI should resign over the Catholic Church’s priest paedophilia scandal, the head of a church-backed probe that revealed hundreds of abuse cases in Belgium said on Friday.
Child psychologist Peter Adriaenssens was quoted as saying in the Flemish-language newspaper De Morgen that the pope should take responsibility for the crisis.
“The pope should not content himself with just expressing regret,” Adriaenssens said. “He should offer his resignation.”
“We should be able to say that after everything that has taken place within the Church, one person is taking responsibility,” he said.
“Since the problem is not just in Belgium but has spread worldwide, the pope must set an example.”
Adriaenssens released on September 10 a report by a commission he led which revealed that nearly 500 people reported abuses by priests since the 1950s and 13 victims committed suicide.
Revelations of abuse carried out by priests in Belgium, Ireland, the pope’s native Germany and the US have plunged the Catholic Church into its worst crisis in decades.
The pope expressed sorrow and shame in a meeting with victims of clerical abuse during his four-day visit to Britain last month.
– SAPA
http://www.news24.com/World/News/Psychologist-Pope-must-quit-20101001
But the Pope will never resign, I mean, he is Christ’s Vicar for goodness sakes [sarcasm intended]. Besides, it would not surprise me if he is guilty of the same crimes.
Just a short note Debs the pope is not just the vicar of Christ but he is Christ (lol). Several popes throughout RCC history have claimed that they are God.
Another note – the Cardinal, in the Vatican, charged with overseeing Satanism and Witchcraft stated recently that they are both practiced in the Vatican and that the coven is a few floors beneath the poops, I mean popes throne; get that, his THRONE.
When he kisses the ground on arrival in a country, he is claiming temporal possession.
Paul
Well, that does not surprise me. Especially when they send out all their ‘experts’ to investigate occult phenomenon, one wonders how they became so knowledgeable.
The whole religious system is built on the occult from the very beginning with people going into trances and sharing messages. The papacy was corrupt from day 1 with immorality. It is built on estatic experiences such as stigmata, apparitions and superstitions and the false Christ of the Eucharist. Whether or not the Vatican practices the occult in its most blatant manner seems immaterial. Evil will disguise itself very cleverly and those who practice it are deceived. That is why it is so imperative that Catholics be presented the true Christ and the true Gospel. Most Christians just don’t “get it” that RC is evil. In their ignorance they accuse of Catholic-bashing” when in fact it is the system that those who love the Gospel are bashing, not the precious souls who are caught up into it, often through family tradition.
Why should the Pope resign for something he did not do? He was not pope in the 1950s when the crises happened. Would you resign from being a parent if one child of your many children beats up somebody at school. Or sodomizes them? Or even kills them? (Revisit the story of Cane and Able. God put a mark on Cane so that no man would take his own justice out on him. That’s when God first says, “Vengeance is mine.”) The Pope is really is saddened and feels sorry for the victims and endures much of the suffering of the Church as a community. Why can’t he express the pain the church feels, as the spokesperson for the Church?
Satan is clearly trying to undermine and tear down the most holy institution on the planet. The Holy Roman Catholic Church. Of course, he wants to see it destroyed. But it won’t happen, ultimately. And not all priest (nor the majority of them) are pedophiles. These are very holy and pious men being lumped into a malicious minor category. There are just as many protestant clergy pedophiles (maybe even more)!
Jesus said to Peter (the first Pope), “You are Peter (rock) and upon this Rock I will build my kingdom. And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.” (Matt 16:18) What church do you think he was talking about? The only one established by Jesus, approximately 2000 years ago, which holds many of the same traditions today as it did back then. Who do you think wrote and ratified the Bible? The Holy Roman and Apostolic Church! Of course Satan wants to see it destroyed. And not just the Catholic church. The entire Christian church, too. And he wants to keep dividing and dividing us down. A house divided against itself cannot stand. (Mk 3:25)
If you want to know more about the Real Presence in the Eucharist, or why the Catholic church is the church established by Christ himself, please check out [URL REMOVED] or [URL REMOVED] Or read anything by Scott Hahn or Jeff Cavins.
Stephanie : Your response strongly suggests that you are Roman Catholic. It would take a book to respond to your allegations and I will later refer you to one. Suffice to say your comments are largely based on Roman Catholic tradition rather than the Bible and recorded Church history as we know it. You must know that Roman Catholics place Tradition alongside the Bible giving it equal authority, don’t you ? Peter was never a pope, not even a bishop, and no, the Roman Catholic church did not write the Bible. They did of course import the Apocrapha (which the Jews reject as fables). The book I refer to is ‘Roman Catholicism’ by Lorraine Boettner. In it you will find a list of the heresies (traditions) introduced by the Roman Catholics over the centuries, including limbo for unbaptised babies, purgatory,papal infallibility ex cathedra and much much more.I bekieve if you read this book objectively, then the error in Catholicism will be clearly apparent.
Stephanie, you came to the wrong place to defend Roman Catholicism and the Pope.
You just need to read your Bible.
The following is a quote from a man who was raised in the Catholic church but left the church as an adult to pursue the real Truth.
On the question of salvation; “Unfortunately most Roman Catholics really don’t know for sure what Rome’s answers are. Most have a vague idea of a place called ‘Purgatory.’ They wander through life with an unfounded belief that, if their ‘good works’ outweigh their ‘sins’ then they get a ticket to heaven. Others believe that just being a Roman Catholic is all that is required to get to Heaven. Well, not directly to Heaven, but by way of an untold period of time in unmentionable pain and suffering in Purgatory. Its not a pretty picture of salvation. Not at all. One of the saddest laments of a priest friend (Novus Ordo type) is that Catholics no longer know their own faith!”
Let’s take a look at what the Catholic believer has to do today in order to “receive” salvation.
The Vatican teaches that salvation is through the church.
According to the Catholic church you must do all of the following in order to receive salvation:
Confess your sins to a Roman Catholic priest.
“Receive” all appropriate Roman Catholic sacraments.
Believe that Grace comes only via Rome’s sacraments, and only through Mary.
Buy or earn as many indulgences as possible so as to avoid Purgatory.
Believe that Grace can only be distributed to you by Mary.
Attend the Roman Catholic Mass on all Sundays and holy days.
Obey all of Rome’s rules (i.e., precepts of the Church).
Be a member of the Roman Catholic Church.
Submit yourself to the Pope.
The bible teaches that you must believe in Jesus and obey the Gospel for salvation, and that it’s by the grace of God, not Mary or Rome, that we are saved. All of the above only make you subservient to the Roman Catholic church and do not ensure your place with God at all.
If you are going to confine your reading to Scott Hahn you will never come out of your deception. Try reading the Word of God instead of Roman Catholic apologists.
This is meant in sincerity and love and concern for your eternal destiny. It goes against everything you have been taught, but it is the Truth and the Truth will set you free.
As for the Pope, this would be a good start.
It is unrealistic for the Pope to resign, but it is quite reasonable for one who understands the truth of the Bible to resign from the Catholic Church. If one comes to understand the true plan of salvation, that is exactly what one would do. This is my prayer for you.
Stephanie,
I am appalled and hardly know where to start. First, the church is built on the declaration that Peter made “thou art the Christ , Son of the Living God”. It is also true that the Apostles laid the foundation,
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone eph.2:20
The foundation has already been laid, it is not continuing to be laid but rather the true church is being built up on the foundation that HAS been laid.
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss…
Notice that Jesus is the foundation? A foundation is only laid ONCE. God used the apostles and prophets to give us the Word of God, thereby the foundation was BUILT(not being built) upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ being the cornerstone.
The pope is NOT God speaking to the church today as he claims! It is a false religious system. Always has been . The root of the problem is a lack of high esteem to the written Word of God. As the Pharisees and scribes of old, traditions and precepts of men are taught as doctrine. And as the charismatic movement is so fond of doing, the Word is added to. The canon is closed pure and simple. No Word from God for hundreds of years after Malachi, then Christ came and God gave us the New Covenant, and he speaks now thru His Word.
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost
2 Peter 1:19-21 (KJV)
The Roman Catholic church is of the same error as the charasmatic movement. Little wonder, this New Apostolic Reformation , which is under the charismatic umbrella has more in common with Rome than than Protestant. Someday it will meld to the apostate church of the end. Why? The Word of God is not revered and held in highest esteem, thats why. Doctrines of demons come in when Gods Word is not held in highest esteem.
Also, the Catholic church withheld the Word of God from their followers for a very long time. Why? Indoctrination and control.They were told that only the priest could read and understand it! Even tho the scriptures themselves tell us to study and tell us that it is the Word that brings faith ,it is food for our souls ect.But the Catholic system didn’t let Gods Word get in the way of their tradition. They do not today either.
As for doctrine… Wow.. this blog is not going to help you unless you were open to the Word of God and not the traditions of the Catholic Church. Their is SO MUCH false doctrine in the Catholic church! I am not wanting at this time to go into all of it. For starters purgatory, praying to saints and angels and the virgin Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, confessing sin to a priest, the Pope,praying for the dead, forbidding to marry ….. The list just goes on and on!!
…from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devil, 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer
1 Tim 4:1-5 (KJV)
If you are open to hear the truth , this blog can help you, but if you want to hold to your traditions, no one can change that. I mean that in a right spirit. Sometimes when you are reding print without the tone and inflection of voice, it can seem …. well different than intended.
oh I can’t wait for this one!! :-))
According to Malachi Martin, the Catholic Church has been “infiltrated by the devil”. To believe otherwise is stupidity.
Have you ever wondered why only Catholic Church has a continuous (uninterrupted) line of leaders since Jesus asked Peter to be the leader of the community he formed(historically proven-do the research). Until about 1500AD all who believed that Jesus is God’s son were catholics. It was only when reformers like Luther, Calvin etc did not agree (and quite rightly) with things which were happening within the Church and rather than trying to improve the situation they broke away from church, translated the bible to their language omitting books they disagreed with. Sylesa and burning lamp, the arguments against the catholic teaching which you name are quite incorrect. I will mention only that Pope does not claim that he is or speaks on behalf of God – he is the servant of the Lord. It might be worth trying to listen to some of the sermons of the current Pope Francis with an open heart and mind to make your mind up after having heard him before you criticise and condem everything regarding catholics. Catholic church is the only church that does not have more and more denominations. Protestant churches and all other christian churches keep on dividing and adjusting and interpreting bible to the current fashion. Catholic Church is the only church which never changed (and never will) the teaching received from Jesus, You say that the Bible is the only true guidance for the believers. Then what about all apostoles (and I do not mean disciples) and believers who lived between the time Jesus died and the bible was written? They all must have been heretics coz they all lived by the tradition passed on to them from Jesus. And last but not least where exactly in the bible is it written (or Jesus mentions) that we are only strictly to use the bible as our only guide in our christian life and should not be a part of the community (church) led by Peter and then the successors?
Bernadette wrote:
If the apostle Peter was the first Pope then the RCC had a first pope who was married (say goodbye to celibacy). Dave Hunt writes in his book “A Woman rides the Beast”
Bernadette wrote:
The RCC claims that the Pope’s decrees on faith and morals are infallible. God’s Word is infallible, wouldn’t you agree, and as such the RCC unequivocally says that the Pope speaks on behalf of God. Here again is what Dave Hunt wrote in “A Woman Rides the Beast.”
Bernadette wrote:
Paul of Tarsus said that he received the Gospel directly from Jesus. Was Paul a Roman Catholic? He could not have been one because he wrote:
The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent contain more than 100 anathemas condemning every point of the true gospel [as it was preached by Jesus, Paul and all the other disciples] and damning to hell those who believe it. For example:
So, as you can see Jesus, Paul and all the other disciples were anathematized by the RCC because they all believed that lost sinners are saved by faith alone and NOT faith and works. That’s blasphemy.
Now you can see why the RCC has hardly broken up into many denominations. The reason for this is because Roman Catholics believe that the RCC is the only church that grants them entrance into heaven and whosoever she excommunicates are bound for hell. Anathema, by the way, means excommunication. In other words, those who do not believe what the Church teaches on this are condemned to hell. So it is raw fear that keep Roman Catholics in the Roman Catholic Church. I suppose that is why Adolf Hitler remained a Roman Catholic until his death. He was afraid he might end up in hell.
Dear Thomas
I can assure you that I am not a RC out of fear for my soul. I have decided to rebel against RC teaching in my twenties because people all around kept telling me that church is too strict and I was missing out. So I have decided to find out for myself what I was missing out on. And guess what, many heart aches and thorough searching for Truth brought me back home to Catholic You could say that I was “born again”.
One bishop once said:”Millions hate what they think to be Roman Catholic Church”.
Excuse me if I misunderstood the tone of your messages but it seems to bear not just a dislike but a lot of hatred towards RC. I am interested to know why. You put forward an argument from the writings of the non catholic author and I just wonder whether you have read anything from the catholic authors who converted to RC.
I could copy and paste some of the passages from several books and articles but such things are better understood read as a whole rather than taken out of context. Below are some links, answering some of the issues raised in your message. First is the link about the Pope infallibility issue. The author, a convert, put together a website answering the most common misconceptions about the RCC.
The second one is a spoken word, the person is quite well known among evangelicals and catholics. It is his conversion story.
http://catholicbridge.com/catholic/pope.php
youtube: Dr. Scott Hahn conversion story
If you can bring yourself to read/hear the catholic side which defends the teaching make your mind up after. I am not saying that you have to agree with it, I am only asking you to have an open mind&heart.
I respect you as my brother in Christ and I think there are a lot of things that we can learn from each other. I refuse to belittle you or anybody else because they are not RC.
If you wish to bring up anything from the recommended links I am up for a discussion.
Be blessed
Bernadette.
Do you pray to Mother Mary and if so, why?
Bernadette wrote:
I am not your brother in Christ because I do not believe Mary is the Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate with Christ. That’s blasphemy.
I quoted to you from your own Canons and Decrees and still you say it is not true.
Your church has anathematized me to hell because I do not believe your Catholic rituals have any salvific value whatsoever, and because I believe that faith in Christ alone saves lost sinners. And yet you have the audacity to call me your brother in Christ? I’m sorry but I am NOT your brother in Christ. Hypocricy is much worse than a lie. It is a sugarcoated lie to deceive the unsuspecting.
Dear Thomas,
It is very hard to speak to people who are full of anger and hatered. No, you are wrong we do not worship our Mother Mary, we ask here to interceed for us. The reason being is that Jesus gave us His Mother, Jn 19, 26-27.
Mary is the first and the purest disciple of Jesus. If you have a good relationship with your Mother, think how much stronger must be a relationship betwee Jesus, God and human, when Mary trusted completely God and gave Him her Fiat(yes) without a hesitation. Did you notice that after Jesus died she did not run to the grave???Do you know why? Because she trusted God and knew that He will not be there. If you don’t believe me, check the scriptures. Her son, God lived with her 30 years!!! Do you not think that they would form a perfect relationship in that time? Imagine that you had God in your house and you would look after Him all that time. Try to imagine the respect Jesus has for His Mother. Mary agreed to be God’s servant. Scripture speaks it too Lk 1,46-55.
Please do check out those two links I referred you to before you use such strong words. However, if your heart and mind is closed it is going to be difficult to discuss anything with you at all, because you will not understand anyway.
Bernadette wrote;
Your church anathematizes me to hell and slaughtered many of my brothers and sister in Christ, and you dare to speak to me about anger and hatred?
Bernadette wrote:
The Roman Mary is called the advocate, hope and life of the RCC. All these attributes belong to Jesus Christ alone. The fact that you call her so makes her equal to Christ in your view.
Here’s one of the prayers the RCC prays to Mary:
For her to be able to help those in need, strengthen the weak, comfort the sorrowful, pray for God’s people, assist hte clergy, intercede for the religious she must be omnipresent, which again is only an attribute of the Trinity.
In another prayer you pray as follows:
You are not supposed to offer yourself entirely to Mary. Jesus said we must offer ourselves to Him and to Him only. And you say you do not worship Mary.
Dear Thomas,
May I ask, do you ever say to your friends or family when they are going through a rough patch: ” I will pray for you” or did your friends or family perhaps said the same for you? Now tell me, what is the difference if we do the same with Mary?? Heaven is not a dead place, if we can interceed for each other here on Earth even though we have not seen God, how much more can Mary interceed for us, if she is God’s mother? ( I assume that you believe that she is God’s mother)
Mt 12, 46-50 This is the only passage that seems to be saying that Jesus did not respect His earthly family. Protestant reformers used this text when they decided to change the Church teaching to suit them and on the top of it omitted a few book from the bible.
the text interpretation can be: My mother & my brothers (meaning cousins) keep my word. Do the same & you will be like them. He later confirms that by saying that we are adopted children of God. He by no means says: ” I used Mary so that I could be born here, her role is therefore finished, and quite frankly who she thinks she is that she can claim any connection with heaven just because she gave birth to me?? I am God and she is nobody” ….
Somehow, I do not think that is what Jesus was applying there, do you? I might be wrong, you might think that. Many Protestants do.
Do Catholics Worship Mary?
Many Evangelicals think the word “pray” means “worship.” So it makes sense that they think Catholics who “pray” to Mary actually “worship” her. Let’s look up the word “pray” in the dictionary. Here is what Webster’s says about the word pray:(1) To utter petition to God … (2) To make a fervent request: PLEAD (3) To beseech: implore (4) to make a devout or earnest request for.The first thing to notice is that the word “worship” is not included in the definition of “pray.” It does not mean “worship.” A prayer to Mary is clearly not a petition to God. Mary is not God, and there is not one faithful Catholic since the apostles who has said she is. So clearly it is not the first meaning.The English language is often limited in that we often have to use the same word to say different things. There are several meanings of the word “pray.” When Catholics pray to God they “utter a petition to God.” When they pray to Mary and the Saints they are making a “devout or earnest request for” prayers from Mary or the saints. In mediaeval times when a royal court official was asking something of a person who outranked him, he would say “I pray thee your majesty.” You have to say that in an English accent to get the full effect! The person was simply making a request in a polite manner.Catholics think Mary is a prayer warrior. That’s her job. We think she was given a full-time 24/7 prayer ministry. She said, “all generations will call me Blessed” and “my soul magnifies the Lord” (Luke 1:46). Catholics think this is significant.”The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart.”- Martin Luther, Sermon – September 1, 1522There is a difference between veneration of Mary and worship of Jesus. This was formalized in writing way back in 757 AD at the Seventh General Council:Latria – adoration that is given to the Trinity alone; occurs 5 times in the Bible but always refers to God (Jn 16:2, Rm:9:4, 12:6, Heb 9:1,6)Hyper-dulia – veneration to Mary (as the mother of God)Dulia – honor paid to saints and angels; occurs 5 times in the Bible (Rm 8:15, 21; Gal 4:24, 5:1; Heb 2:15)There are plenty of Old Testament references that distinguish veneration from worship. “Then Moses went out to meet his father in law, and he bowed down and kissed him..” (Exo 18:7)…(also 1 Chron 29:20, 1 Sam 24:8)Some evangelicals say “consecration” shows that Catholics worship Mary. The word “consecrate” means to entrust. I entrust myself to my closest friends but only one is my Savior.“Never be afraid of loving the Blessed Virgin too much. You can never love her more than Jesus did.”- St. Maximilian Kolbe (a priest who died in Auschwitz as a result of taking the place of a father, who was then present at Kolbe’s canonization 50 years later)Top
Video: The Bible and Mary
“Mary’s role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it.”- Catechism of the Catholic Church, par. 964
Does hanging out with Mary de-focus us from Jesus?
We got an email that said:Why then would we want to take the focus off of Jesus and pray through Mary, or any one else for that matter? I also see a lot of the issues surrounding Mary as distractions.We appreciate concern that attention paid to Mary defocuses from Jesus. It is an interesting choice of words because Mary said the opposite about herself. In the Bible, Mary clearly spells out her role in eternity:My soul magnifies the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. For He has regarded the lowly state of his maidservant; For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed. (Lk 1:46-49)The Bible says Jesus is magnified by Mary’s soul. A soul is not limited by life on earth. Mary reinforces her eternal ministry by saying “all generations will call me blessed.” If the Bible intended Mary’s ministry to end with the birth of Jesus, or at Jesus’ death, or even at Mary’s death, I don’t think it would use that language.A magnifying glass increases the object it is focused on, so being in relation to Mary’s eternal soul does not draw focus away from Jesus, it does the opposite. It magnifies him. This is the Bible’s word to the people of God.We’ve heard Evangelical pastors do sermons on just about every passage of Scripture except this one. I invite you to try to remember a sermon on Luke 1:46-55. The movie “The Nativity” removed words from the Bible that referred to Mary when they flashed the passage on the screen during the final scene. I think it’s crazy to remove words about Mary from the Bible to make some Christians feel more comfortable.Catholics believe Mary’s soul still “magnifies the Lord” for Christians of our generation who choose to relate to her. Currently, Catholics are pretty well the only ones upholding the biblical prophecy to call her blessed, which was intended for all generations, and for all Christians.Our experience with Mary has actually significantly improved our relationship with our Lord and Saviour, Jesus. We think time spent with Mary is no more de-focusing than time spent with our other Church friends or with my our pastor. The logical end to the “defocusing” theory is that we should never talk to or pray with any other Christians. It suggests we shouldn’t go to prayer groups, or even read the Old Testament (because it predates Christ). It suggests we should only talk with Christ alone and never even talk to another human being. That seems like a definition of a hermit and although it is a valuable calling, it’s not for us.When I (David) was a performer in the US National tour of “Cats” my mother did not want to jump on the stage and take my place in the spotlight (although that would have been pretty funny). She wanted everyone to know that her son was in “Cats.” She wanted everyone to go see me. That was her role. Mary’s role is not to jump on centre stage and take the place of Jesus. She just wants everyone to know about her Son Jesus and she will do anything to help that relationship.We got an email that said:… unlike Kings here on earth, God doesn’t need a Queen. He has been, He is, and He always will be complete on His own.Absolutely. God is complete. It is not out of Jesus’ incompleteness that He has called angels and saints to join him in ministry. It is not because He is not strong enough and needs help. He could easily snap his fingers and the entire population of the world would suddenly see God and know He exists. He does not need Mary, angels, or saints. Nor does He need you or me.It is out of his overabundance of Graces. It is his generosity, his desire to share his graces, his overflowing goodness, and his great Love for us. The Psalmist said “my cup overflows” (Ps 23). That is what God is. He is overflowing with graces that he shares with his mother and all his children. If he loves you and me so much as to invite us to join in his ministry, it is not hard to imagine that he would invite his mother to join in his ministry.
Catholic versus the Evangelical approach to a relationship with Jesus
Scenario 1: If a guy falls in love with a girl he might say:
I love you so much. I love you so much that I want to spend all my time with you. I never want to talk to your mother. I never want to see your family or friends. I want you to banish them when they come around, I just want to spend my whole life with you and love you.That’s how we understand the Evangelical take on a relationship to Jesus.
Scenario 2: On the other hand he could say:
I love you so much. I love you so much that I want to spend my time with you. Your mom is welcome to visit our home. Your family is my family, your friends are my friends. The people you love, I will love. We are one flesh and I welcome everyone you welcome.”We think the second one sounds like a more authentic love. We think that is the Catholic approach to a relationship with Jesus.
Isn’t there only one mediator between God and man?
We got an email that said:Christ is the one and only mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24)…It can not be made any clearer in the scriptures that God wants to communicate with us directly, and to be cautious of those who try to step in to mediate.1 Timothy 2 does not say that God wants us only to communicate with Jesus. It says there is only one mediator between God and man, which is a different thing. The passage does not say “be cautious” of asking people to pray for us. It doesn’t do anything of the sort. The chapter begins by not only allowing intercessory prayer by third parties, but requiring it and indicating that it actually helps bring them to salvation and knowledge of truth. Any mother who prays for her children knows that.I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone …This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4. who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. (Tim. 2:1-4)We cannot read the rest of the chapter without considering that overarching idea. We think that Christians in heaven pray through Christ much better than you and me. They are much closer to Christ than you and me. Evangelicals pray for each other, and they don’t say they are taking God’s place. When we pray for one another we are participating in the mediation but we are not the mediator. Catholics feel that saints in heaven, including Mary, can pray for us just as well (or infinitely better) than our friends on earth.In Hebrews 8:6, it says Jesus has obtained a more excellent ministry than any of the high priests. In 9:15 and 12:24 the passage goes on to say he is the mediator of a New Covenant, Catholics fully agree. We fully agree he is the mediator. We think Christians in heaven are a heck of a lot more aware of who Christ is than we are. The Bible says that he has helpers that participate in his ministry by his invitation. We believe he has invited Christians on both sides of heaven to do that.When a saint enters into the joy of their Master, they are “put in charge of many things” (Mat. 25:21)Saints are serious prayer warriors. We don’t think that praying with the Saints detracts from the worship of God anymore than praying with friends detracts from worship of God. Saints are not all knowing, but they know a heck of a lot more about this spiritual game than us. They are creatures. This does not take away the tremendous benefit we can get from communing with them. Catholics think “their intercession is their most exalted service to God’s plan. We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world” (Catechism 2683).
If only God is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent, how does Mary hear “a million” requests for intercession at one time?
I (David) think the best way to respond to this “million prayers at once” objection is to describe something in my life. I have a little computerized recording studio. A friend of mine knows nothing about computers and when he heard my CD he said:Hey how is it that you are singing all those voices and playing all those instruments at the same time. You are not omnipresent!I explained to him that it takes me 150 hours to record a 3 minute song. With the computer I record each instrument and voice one after another and then mix them all together into this 3 minute song. So the measure of time I use to record the song is not the measure of time that people perceive when they hear the song on the radio. The recording was not made in “real time.”Heaven is not in “real (earth) time.” Heaven is outside of earth time!On one of my songs I am singing 75 voices and 60 music tracks at the same time. That does not make me “omnipresent!” If I can do this, I think heaven can figure out how to respond to multiple requests for prayer at the same time, because they are not handled according to “earth time.”Catholics don’t think people have to be omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent in order to be in heaven. Scripture tells us there are many levels of authority in heaven (archangels, angels, cherubim, seraphim, etc.) I think Evangelicals believe angels know what is happening in different parts of the earth at the same time, yet they are not omnipresent. Mary doesn’t need all knowledge or be present everywhere to hear more than one request for intercession at once.The scientist Albert Einstein describes the physical universe (our world) in 4 dimensions, length, width, depth and time. Jesus said “My kingdom is not of this world.” If “time” is part of our physical universe and Jesus’ Kingdom is not of this world, it makes sense to me that heaven is outside of time. So hearing 1,000,000 requests for prayers at one time would be no problem. Just line them up (or whatever). Being out of time is more than sufficient to overcome the standard “million prayers at once” objection. Catholics believe people in heaven are out of time and are enabled to observe and hear what is going on in the earth (which is expressly indicated in Scripture – at least the observing. The “hearing” is a valid deduction). (1)Talking to Heaven is not like calling a “help desk,” where you sit in the queue waiting for them to answer while you listen to bad music on the phone.There is no prayer queue in heaven…Oh, and they speak English perfectly in heaven too, they understand.The universe is a big place. The term “omnipresence” implies being everywhere in the universe and beyond. I think objecting to Mary’ intercession because it implies omnipresence is as short-sighted as medieval people thinking the universe revolved around the earth. Mary’s ability to hear a bunch of prayers at once doesn’t mean she is omnipresent. It just means she is outside of time like everyone else in Heaven.When I was a baby, God trusted my earthly mother to care for me. That did not make my mom omnipresent, although I thought so when I was a kid. God trusted Mary to care for her Son when He was a child. At the foot of the cross Jesus trusted her with the care of John. Catholics think in this gesture Jesus gave Mary as a mother to all humanity.
Thomas,
the above is copied from a website of a catholic convert. His name is David Macdonald & he was not ” fed” the catholic teaching from an early age. God let him know that He was with him when he was at the lowest and David allowed God to guide him. Among other things he writes worship songs and works closely with the Evangelicals. He put the website together to witness to God’s great mercy and to answer the most common misconceptions about the RCC.
Paul of Tarsus said that he received the Gospel directly from Jesus. Was Paul a Roman Catholic? He could not have been one because he wrote:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph 2:8-9)
The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent contain more than 100 anathemas condemning every point of the true gospel [as it was preached by Jesus, Paul and all the other disciples] and damning to hell those who believe it. For example:
“If anyone says that the sacraments of the New Law [Catholic rituals] are not necessary for salvation but men obtain from God through faith alone
So, as you can see Jesus, Paul and all the other disciples were anathematized by the RCC because they all believed that lost sinners are saved by faith alone and NOT faith and works. That’s blasphemy.
Now you can see why the RCC has hardly broken up into many denominations. The reason for this is because Roman Catholics believe that the RCC is the only church that grants them entrance into heaven and whosoever she excommunicates are bound for hell. Anathema, by the way, means excommunication. In other words, those who do not believe what the Church teaches on this are condemned to hell. So it is raw fear that keep Roman Catholics in the Roman Catholic Church. I suppose that is why Adolf Hitler remained a Roman Catholic until his death. He was afraid he might end up in hell.
Excommunication and condemnation to hell are two different things. You say that by being excommunicated from the RCC one will go to hell. God is the one who will be the judge. Not catholics, not Protestants, Muslims or anybody else. The Trent Council points you mentioned are there to make sure the people in church know what the Catholic teaching is. And that it is there not to be changed according to the latest fashion and because it was given to us by Jesus. And it was passed to us from generation to generation. We know that Jesus is really present in the Eucharist, Divinity, body and soul & in order to receive Him one must agree with the general church teaching. If you do not, you can not be a part of the Church. Why would you want to be anyway if you do not believe what we believe???
Therefore, if you disagree, you are excommunicated. So that if you make up your own teaching others will be aware that the teaching is not that of the Catholic Church. And also, so that you will not be able to receive the Eucharist when you are not part of the RCC.
Bernadette
Do you address your friends and family in the following way when you ask them to pray for you?
The Bible says that Jesus who ever lives (because He has risen from the grave and conquered death) is our intercessor with the Father and therefore able to save believers to the uttermost. (Hebrews 7:24-25)
Was Mary crucified for us? Did she conquer death and is therefore now able to intercede for the saints and save them to the uttermost? You must be joking.
If Mary is the mother of God then she must also be the mother of God the Father and God the Holy Spirit because Jesus said “We are ONE .”
You wrote:
This proves how far you are prepared to go to twist Scripture so that it may fit your RCC doctrines. You are actually saying that Jesus was an illiterate who didn’t know the difference between a mother, a brother, sister and a cousin. Nowhere in the entire New Testament is “mother,” “brother’ and “sister” interpreted as a cousin. The only place where “cousin” (suggenēs) is used is in Luke 1:36.
Stop twisting Scripture to your own destruction (2 Peter 3:16).
Bernadette wrote:
You may try as hard as you like, you will never get away from the fact that “excommunication” and “anathema” mean to damn non-Catholics to hell. The word “anathema” means to be “accursed,” “away from the presence of God for all eternity.”
Does the Eucharist save you, Bernadette? Do you really believe that while Jesus held a piece of bread in his hand, He was holding his own body and soul in his hand? To believe that a RCC priest has the power to miraculously change the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus is blasphemy. By the way, many true Christians were slaughtered because they refused to believe this nonsense and rejected it out rightly. Go and read your history. It is soaked in the blood of the martyrs.
Bernadette wrote:
Are you now allowing an ex-Protestant to verify for you the decrees and doctrines of the Romans Catholic Church? David MacDonald is as deceived as what you are and the tragedy is that you cannot see it.
Bernadette
Jesus hears and answers all the prayers of his saints simultaneously because he is omniscient and omnipresent and not just because his Kingdom is not of this world and transient from earthly time and space. Mary is NOT omniscient and omnipresent and anyone who attributes to her these divine characteristics is committing idolatry.
I have already explained that Jesus is able to intercede for his saints because he conquered death and ever lives to intercede for them. If Mary was able to intercede for all the saints she would have had to be crucified, buried and raised from the dead literary, in other words conquered death. Is she able to save the saints to the uttermost? (Hebrews 7:25). If she’s able then she must be God because He alone is capable of doing such a magnanimous work in heaven.
Bernadette,
You are not answering my questions. Is Mary an Advocate in the same way as Jesus? In other words, is she able to save the saints to the uttermost because she, like Jesus, conquered death? (Hebrews 7:25).
If she hasn’t, then you dare not pray to her.
Bernadette
Let’s focus on the above verse you quoted. Mary prays and says that Jesus is her Savior. Savior from what? He saved her from her sins and hence also eternal destruction in hell. And yet the RCC claims that she had an immaculate birth and was kept from sin in a miraculous way, despite the fact that the Bible says we are all born in sin.
Bernadette,
The issue here is not only prayer but the office of an ADVOCATE who intercedes in heaven in behalf of the saints so that they may be saved to the uttermost (Hebrews 7:25). Mary cannot possibly fill this exceptionally high office in heaven. To say and believe that she does is pure blasphemy. You are busying yourself with idolatry.
Thomas,
Regardless of what I say you will say it is a blasphemy. When someone’s mind is so closed that he doesn’t hear a word but keeps arguing then there is no point in continuing a conversation. Yes, you are right, there was a lot of bloodshed among the believers but you are being a hypocrite because you know for well that it was from both sides. I can only apologise and say how sorry I am on behalf of Catholics. I would do the same for a member of my blood family if they did something so awful, apologise on their behalf and bear the grief. But I can not reject the whole family because of the error of some individuals. We can discuss this here and argue till the cows come home. Study a history of Protestant churches and likewise a history of RCC. Read the scriptures, ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you. Because at the moment even if Jesus himself would write to you defending RCC and His mother you would not hear what He is saying. I will keep you in my prayers (whether you like it or not) so that you will find peace. It is very obvious that you have a lot of knowledge (understanding some of it rather incorrect) but you seem to be missing compassion and love. In Samuels words, I do sincerely hope that your attitude will change from “Listen Lord, your servant is speaking” to “Speak Lord, your servant is listening”.
Thomas, may God bless you abundantly.