What does the Bible say about Mary, Queen of Heaven?
Jeremiah 7:18 (Amplified Bible)
“18 The children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead the dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger!
Queen of Heaven – A goddess of fertility, probably the Babylonian title for Ishtar. She is identified with the planet Venus. Offerings to this goddess included cakes made in the shape of a star (Jerermiah. 44:17-19).
Jeremiah 44:25 (Amplified Bible)
“25Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: You and your wives have both declared with your mouths and fulfilled it with your hands, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed to burn incense to the queen of heaven and to pour out drink offerings to her. [Surely] then confirm your vows and [surely] perform your vows! [If you will defy all My warnings to you, then, by all means, go ahead!]”
The Queen of Heaven in the bible is a Babylonian goddess whom people worshiped. She has been incarnated to Roman Catholicism under the name ‘Mary’, Mary, Queen of Heaven. Many Catholics would deny that Mary worship is part of Catholicism but unfortunately this is not true as she holds a special place in the hearts of many.
All over the world, Catholics have one celebration after the next dedicated to Mary, the Queen of Heaven. Everything that is done for the Queen of Heaven is sinful; baking a cake, observing Lent, lighting a candle, or burning incense. God abhors idolatry, and worshiping the Queen of Heaven is a damnable heresy. God is clear that idolatry provokes Him to anger as seen in Jeremiah 7:18.
Isaiah 42:8 (Amplified Bible)
8I am the Lord; that is My name! And My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images.
In revelations, Mary, Queen of Heaven is Rome:
Revelation 18:1,7,14-17 (Amplified Bible)
1After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2With a mighty voice he shouted: “Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evilspirit, a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird. 3For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”
7Give her as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts, ‘I sit as queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn.’
14“They will say, ‘The fruit you longed for is gone from you. All your riches and splendor have vanished, never to be recovered.’ 15The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment. They will weep and mourn16and cry out: ” ‘Woe! Woe, O great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls! 17In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!
But Jeremiah is not the only time the Queen of Heaven is mentioned:
Isaiah 47:5 (Amplified Bible)
5 “Sit in silence, go into darkness, Daughter of the Babylonians; no more will you be called queen of kingdoms
Lamentations 1:1 (Amplified Bible)
1 How deserted lies the city, once so full of people! How like a widow is she, who once was great among the nations! She who was queen among the provinces has now become a slave.
This is what Mary, Babylonian Queen of Heaven, Queen of Kingdoms had to say to a Dutch lady by the name of Ida Peerdeman back in November 16, 1950/1 :
Prayer for the world:
Lady of all Nations
“Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Father send now Your Spirit over the earth. Let the Holy Spirit live in the hearts of all nations that they may be preserved from degeneration, disaster and war. May the Lady of all Nations, who once was Mary, be our Advocate. Amen.”
“Now the moment has come for you to speak about Mary as Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate under the title of the Lady of all Nations (“Co” meaning companion, co-operating with but subjugated and not equal to the Redeemer. This must be duly stressed). She later added: “It may be asked why this title is not mentioned in the messages of the first five years. It is because the dogma of the Assumption had to come first.”
In April of that year, 1951, she added:
“The new dogma will be the dogma of the Co-redemptrix. I emphasize ‘Co’. I have already said how much controversy this dogma would arouse. The Church of Rome will have a long struggle over it, but will finally proclaim it. The image and its dissemination – this is the prerequisite to the dogma. This image will be the emblem of the Co-redemptrix. The Lady, Mother, has suffered the sufferings of the Son, both spiritual and corporal.”
She later explained to Ida: “By the will of the Father, the Redeemer came into the world. For that, the Father had recourse to the Lady. From the Lady, and from her alone, the Redeemer took flesh and blood; that is to say, His body. From my Lord and Master, the Redeemer received His divinity. In this way the Lady became the Co-redemptrix by the will of the Father. I do not come to bring any new doctrine. The doctrine already exists. Say this to your theologians: ‘Already from the beginning, she was Co-redemptrix. …That is why the Lady of all Nations has been compelled to come now, in these present times, for she is the Immaculate Conception and, as a consequence of this, the Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate. These three are but one.” —http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/marian/loan/loan.htm
On May 31, 1996 Bishop Henrik Bomers and his auxiliary Bishop Josef Punt officially approved veneration of Mary under the tile of Our Lady of All Nations.
Lady of All Nations Prayer Day 2010 – Amsterdam
Mary has appeared under many names over the centuries, here are but a few:
Mary, Queen of Heaven (Rome)
Arianrhod (Welsh) Goddess of fertility
Aprodite (Greek) Goddess of fertility
Ashteroth (Phoenicians and Canaanites) Goddess of fertility
Astarte (Eastern Mediterranean/Bronze Age) Goddess of fertility
Anahita (Persian) Goddess of fertility
Anu (Celtic) Goddess of fertility
Aveta (Gaulish) Goddess of fertility
Brigit (Irish) Goddess of fertility
Ceres (Rome) Goddess of fertility
Corn Mother (Native American) Earth Goddess/Goddess of fertility
Cybele (Rome) Goddess of fertility
Demeter (Greek) Goddess of fertility
Freya (Scandinavian) Goddess of fertility
Frigg (Scandinavian) Goddess of fertility
Gaia (Greek) Mother goddess
Hathor (Egyptian) Goddess of fertility
Haumea (Hawaiian) Mother goddess
Inanna (Sumerian) Goddess of fertility
Ishtar (Babylonian/Assyrian) Goddess of fertility
Isis (Egyptian) Goddess of fertility
Juno (Rome) Goddess of fertility
Kali (Indian) – Black earth mother/Goddess of fertility
Kostroma (Slavic) Goddess of fertility
Mylitta (Sumerian) Goddess of fertility
Oshun (Afro/Cuban) Goddess of fertility
Rainbow Snake (Aborigine) – Earth Goddess/Goddess of fertility
Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article.
Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.
Debs, thank you for posting this. Those who join with Roman Catholics in the name of peace or political or moral issues don’t realize what they are stepping into. It is a most unholy alliance and many evangelicals are being deceived and duped. Just keep getting the message out and exposing those deeds of darkness posing as an angel of light.
“Those who join with Roman Catholics in the name of peace or political or moral issues don’t realize what they are stepping into. It is a most unholy alliance and many evangelicals are being deceived and duped…keep…exposing those deeds of darkness posing as an angel of light.”
How ’bout stickin’ to the main thing, clear biblical doctrine? Believers are divided on this issue and some faithful Christians acknowledge the bad roots of the holiday but choose not to throw the baby out with the bath. They see the holiday which is an established national holiday as an opportunity to share Christ and acknowledge Him as Savior.
Other believers choose not to celebrate it as their conscience dictates. One should not judge the other it seems to me. This is one of those areas of disagreement that is not nearly as important as others. May God grant us all wisdom in these matters and how best to glorify the Lord.
Of course such “holidays” as Halloween there is no question. It is disturbing to see more and more Christians see value in celebrating it and even some who chastise other believers for what they call narrow-mindedness and a missed opportunity.
Maybe Debs will decided to do an article on Halloween as it is coming up next month and is celebrated world wide.
Yeah, yeah, yeah- I understand. And worshiping false gods- clearly not a Biblical doctrine thingy. If that baby is evil, it’s going down the drain.
The whole “national holiday” thing doesn’t move me: Lk 16:15 “And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.” I can teach about Jesus 364 other days of the year just fine without compromising God’s standards…
Judges 2:11-15 sums up His attitude on Baal worship, or Christ-mass as we so lovingly call it (hence my sarcasm) and His attitude on the holiday that celebrates Ishtar (or that precious holiday with bunnies, and ducks, and eggs- Easter). I am thinking He DOESN’T LIKE IT!
After our whole conversation under the John McArthur article on Christmas I had a whole long conversation with my mom about it and we both came to the same conclusion at the end – when you know the truth about Christmas there is no ways you can celebrate that day because you know it’s utterly satanic. So what do we do? We’ll it’s still a national holiday, and as a family we get together and have a braai (BBQ), something we do on every other national holiday. We don’t even put one thought into the fact that it’s supposed to be this pagan ‘Christmas’ day. We don’t put up a tree, ornaments, prepare food for the occasion.
Well, it seems inevitable that even believers with discernment can’t agree on everything but extend grace.
Case in point: I have a friend who doesn’t celebrate Christmas, Resurrection Sunday (as fundies call it). Instead she celebrates the Feast Days and Hannukah (sp?). She has gone Messianic and off the charts into some serious error. She may be legalistically right on the one hand but has gone from the frying pan into the fire. One must guard against a self-righteous attitude.
Fundie pastors who I respect and are as far from being pragmatic as one can get believe that Christmas can be an outreach opportunity. The same goes for Resurrection Sunday minus the eggs, bunnies, etc. If the focus is on Christ and Christ alone, it is a time to reflect upon the meaning of Christ’s birth and His sacrifice.
To my friends who do not celebrate Christmas due to conviction, I respect that and do not send them Christmas cards or mention the holiday. To others who are not saved, I send a Christ-centered card with a salvation tract and a personal testimony. With most of these folks I would never have that opportunity otherwise. It is also a time when I can encourage other believers who live in other parts of the country. My conscience is clear on this. I am aware of the pagan roots of Christ-mass, but I don’t think that withdrawing from it accomplishes anything as it does with Halloween that is blatantly evil. My house is dark on that night and my heart breaks for all the children who revel in the celebration of evil because their parents allow and even encourage it.
Now the issue of Santa Claus. Not only does this detract from the real meaning but it is a lie which is sin.
If one were to examine our calendar for instance, we would find occult roots in the names of the days and months. But we don’t make up another calendar. There are many other facets to our society that if examined reflect paganism. But if we dedicate the days to the Lord it does not matter.
I believe that the “Christianizing” of paganism is a great sin such as “Christian Yoga” and “Hula worship” for example. I want to make that perfectly clear.
At Christmas my home has a biblical nativity minue the wise men – it is not Marian or Catholic. I have cute snowmen, but I make sure that Christ is the focus. The Christmas story is read as a family and we thank the Lord for sending His Son. We make it clear that He is not just a baby in a manger, but a risen Lord who paid the price for our sins. Yes, we talk about Jesus many other times during the year, but this occasion is used to concentrate on that. It is also a time of joy for our family to celebrate together and think of others less fortunate and also of the lost and how important it is to share the Gospel.
As for the tree, many use Jeremiah 10 to say that is wrong. The Scripture is talking about an idol made out of wood, covered with silver and gold. It is true that heathen people hav sometimes worshiped trees. They hav also worshiped animals, the wind, the ocean, the sun and the stars. One must be careful about decorations – most of the “angels” that are sold to be put on tree tops are unscriptural and an affront to God. The garish displays many people put in their yards are disgusting but that does not negate Christians putting up something about Christ that honors Him and is a witness. We are to be salt and light to the world.
I don’t try to convince my friends who choose not to celebrate the day – that is between them and the Lord.
Each one should follow their conscience and we should all respect one another and not condemn one another.
The Apostle Paul in Romans 14: 13-19 covers this. I do not include friends who choose not to celebrate Christmas out of love and they in turn should not look down upon believers who have examined the issue and look at it in a different way.
The bottom line is love. I have intended no offense and I hope none is taken.
I don’t have a problem with people celebrating Christmas – Christmas for me is one of those days that I honestly could not be bothered about. I used to celebrate it, now I don’t want too because of what it means. No law involved here. I still have to buy people presents on Christmas because well others in my family and extended family want pressies. And I won’t mind accepting a few pressies either lol. The day means nothing to me – zip, zero, nada. But if a child asked me what the day meant, I would tell them all about Jesus 🙂
Why don’t we look at another day for example… Holy Cross Day. I heard recently that for a Christian to celebrate Holy Cross day is ok. In fact this person is so adamant that worshiping a piece of wood from Jesus’ cross or in the form of Jesus’ cross is not idolatry that I am now the bad one for ever mentioning it on my website and I have sinned against God or something (I think Catholics say that a lot). Or Lent, apparently this is a Christian day as well according to this person… and not RC.
To unsubscribe, please go to http://www.discerningtheworld.com and type in your
email address that you used to subscribe with, into the email subscription window and click submit.
I cannot find the email subscription window. Would you please unsubscribe me manually?
“At the center of Christianity, at the center of the world, at the center of history, stands the Cross of Jesus. An instrument of humiliation and agonizing death, the Cross stands as a stark symbol of the hardship, pain, and sorrow of sinful humanity that has wandered far from the paradise God created for us to live in and enjoy. At the same time, the Cross is the remedy for the sin of the world, the mystical tree of life, and the throne of glory on which the Son of Man is exalted as the Son of God. When Jesus was lifted up on the Cross, he raised up all who have fallen under the burden of sin; when his body was broken on the Cross, he made the world whole; when he died on the Cross, he gave life to those who were perishing. The 20th century historian of religion Mircea Eliade observed: “Every Microcosm, every inhabited region, has a Centre; that is to say, a place that is sacred above all.” (“Symbolism of the Centre” in Images and Symbols. Princeton, 1991, p.39) For Judaism, “the hill of Zion [is] the very center of the world” (Psalm 48:2). The Temple in which God himself chose to dwell, even in its absence today, still orients the Jewish people and gives meaning and direction to their lives. For Christians, that center has moved a few hundred yards to the west, to the hill of Calvary, to the place where God suffered and died in the flesh, and rose again, establishing a new and unbreakable axis mundi (center of the world) by which the direction of all human endeavor is judged and permanently reoriented.” http://fullhomelydivinity.org/articles/cross.htm
15But He said to them, You are the ones who declare yourselves just and upright before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted and highly thought of among men is detestable and abhorrent (an abomination) in the sight of God. [I Sam. 16:7; Prov. 21:2.]
My mother has asked that you stop sending her emails. My mother is not one bit interested in what any of you have to say, as she knows for a fact that you are all 100% incorrect. You are not winning my mother over to your side because you are biblically incorrect and always will be in this regard. The End.
Hello guys. I rejoice in your family’s decision, Deborah.
(As you can probably tell!) Christ-mass is something I believe is not up for opinion, it must be viewed, as all things, through the lens of Scripture.
BL- you mentioned that you don’t agree with Santa, “Now the issue of Santa Claus. Not only does this detract from the real meaning but it is a lie which is sin.” Can I ask, what is the real meaning? You certainly wouldn’t be implying that the day was “really” about Christ in the first place, right? By your own conscience you say that a lie is a sin- saying that day was ever intended to honor Christ is a lie…which is a sin, right? So, it’s living a lie to celebrate X-mas, even if you say it is for Christ, because it really isn’t- making that a sin. And Santa fits in just fine because it is Satan’s day anyway!
As I have often said, I am not interested in anyone’s “opinions” on the matter. No one has been able to give me a Biblical defense for celebrating a day that is a known pagan holiday. As I shared earlier, the story from Judges (2:11-15) clearly lays out God’s opinion of His people partaking in the pagan celebrations of their day. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how anyone who claims the banner of being a Christ-one, can partake in pagan celebrations made popular by Roman Catholic traditions. What do you think the Lord is referencing when He warns in the book of Revelation to be not partakers of her sins, lest you also be partakers of her plagues? I assure you, our witness is not compromised when we abstain from the things highly esteemed of men, which are abominations before God. I have had a very precious friend who happens to be a very blind and deceived Jewish Rabbi compliment our decision to not celebrate the RC/Babylon mystery religion holidays, claiming he had yet to see “Christians” actually live what they profess to believe.
I agree with you about the Jewish feasts deceptions, but, either way, the truth is that people are not reading their Word or they would know better. Paul clearly warns against that, just as the Lord graciously warns us against partaking in pagan celebrations.
You mention that we must be careful about what decorations we use in our homes. I couldn’t agree with you more. Our family does not have any images, any crosses (another cleverly disguised graven image), stars, etc. on our walls because we know that they are affiliated with paganism. In your example you outline that our calender days/months have been perverted by paganism- you are right. However, we cannot exclude ourselves from its use. We can, however, rid our lives of anything unpleasing that we have control over. This is not a sufficient excuse. Again, we don’t need images/celebrations to share the message of Christ. And again, you must give me Bible for that. It is the MESSAGE of the cross that saves, not thumping our Jesus fish on someone’s forehead. I see people driving around with “Not of this World” bumper stickers. Yeah right! They usually have the lowest cut shirts, the trendiest hair, the loudest music, and are usually texting on their ridiculously over-priced cell phones. What about that is “not of this world”?
Remember, He is looking for a PECULIAR people, zealous of good works? Will the peculiar Christians please stand up, because you’re starting to blend in with the world!
As for getting/giving presents (pressies), our family/friends know we will have no part of this pagan celebration. None for us and none from us.
BL- you spoke of the nativity scene. Don’t you know that, first of all, if it really was Jesus, that violates the “No Graven Images” commandment? Second of all, it’s not Jesus! It’s baby Baal! Mary, Queen of Heaven. The nativity is based off of the celebration of Nimrod’s day! It’s blasphemy to call that my Christ!
This is not a matter of opinion and God, as shown in Judges, does not take it lightly. Those who celebrate this cleverly deceptive day and think God winks at it are guilty of holding to a form of godliness, but denying its power. And God would never compromise to get His message across- there is not one Biblical example for that.
Acts 17:30 “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:”
You know when I was writing about the presents part I had conviction about that, because if I give presents and receive presents I am partaking in the actual pagan celebration. Oi vey… lol. You are right, and as harsh as your words seem (which they aren’t) you are 100% correct. When we find out the truth on a matter (ESPECIALLY considering the TIMES WE LIVE IN) we have to obey Jesus’ commandments on these issues. We are to come out of Babylon, not stay in her. And God is calling us out of her at this time.
Your bold act of humility warms my heart and serves as a powerful example of servant-leadership. Lk 9:48 “for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.” I am so thankful for the opportunity to dialogue with you and as “Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.”
Nah shucks, it’s just the truth lol. We ALL have only ONE person to answer to at the end of the day and that is Jesus. There are many things that we hold onto that we think are so precious or fun or righteous, meanwhile they are to our detriment. When I left the world behind me and gave my life to Jesus I gave up everything for Him. I won’t hesitate to do it again and again and again. In fact I did it recently; told a few people to leave me alone, thereby choosing Jesus Christ instead.
Thank you for your ongoing support mom4truth. Thank you! Times are tough, I can tell you that.
To everything you just said- ditto. My family has lost all (no I’m not exaggerating) of our friends and most of our family. The remaining family members that we are still in relationship with are very much unsaved, but we have open opportunities at every occasion to speak the gospel. The hour is so late. Every night I lay my head down, I say to the Lord, “Really? This wasn’t the day?” I can imagine what Simeon felt like as he awaited the news of his Savior’s arrival! We often feel so very alone, but I know, according to God’s Word, there ARE others out there. I find it pretty surreal that I have managed to meet one all the way in Africa. My family prays every night for Africa that the Word of Truth would be brought there in the midst of all the deception thanks to all of the apostate/emergent ministries that are there teaching the false gospel. It was actually amazing- a few nights ago we had a solicitor come to our door trying to sell us something. We invited him in, he thought to sell us a product, and we intended to share the gospel. He stayed for a couple of hours. We found out he is in school in London but is originally from Africa. After speaking the gospel to him, he affirmed that he wanted to reject the lies he had been taught and accept the truth of Jesus as his Savior. He inquired as to how he could know the Truth. My daughter gave him her Bible and we asked him to bring it with him to Africa to share the Truth. He got tears in his eyes and said, “Wow, that’s big.” Now only the Lord knows what he will do with the seeds that were planted.
Someone passed this verse along to me as a means of encouragement, and now, I pass it to you:
Hebrews 6:10: “For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.”
South Africa is great, I love it. But the crime here is violent and shocking. The rest of Africa is dark and painful. The mind boggles at what goes on in Africa. Witchcraft interlaces everything in Africa.
Re: KJV only. Just be careful, I might push you off the bridge 😉 haha *rolling on the floor laughing*
Pay attention: My MOTHER HAS ASKED that you STOP sending her emails. My mother is NOT one bit interested in what any of you have to say, as SHE KNOWS for a FACT that you are all 100% INCORRECT. You are not winning my mother over to your side because you are all BIBLICALLY INCORRECT and ALWAYS will be in this regard, therefore my mother wants nothing to do with any of you. The End.
Mom, I better understand your blanket condemnation of my heart when I learned you are KJV only and want to debate that. Quite frankly, your attitude comes across as self-righteous, and your words to me were unloving with not one ounce of grace in them. That my dear is the sound of a clanging cymbal.
Like the Apostle Paul, who did not forbid the eating of meat sacrificed to idols, I do not believe that participating in the celebration of Christmas is a sin and it can be used to His glory. I have examined this issue from time to time over the years and know all the arguments.
Paul’s point was that some things are a matter of conscience and he says to be careful about judging our brothers and sisters in those type of matters. Yes, it is fine to state what you believe, but don’t condemn others.Follow your conscience, but don’t judge others. Do you realize you are condemning literally thousands of fellow believers who honor truth and believe as I do? I am speaking about the remnant here, not the general Body that is largely in apostasy.
You are speaking to someone who loves the Lord and His Gospel and takes a stand for truth. I am not a Baal worshiper. When I put up the simple nativity scene in my front yard (and one can drive for miles seeing only secular symbols) I am taking a stand for Christ. I believe in the full, complete and uncompromised Gospel and am very active in evangelism according the the Word of God.
I try to constantly search my heart as to my actions and try not to think too highly of myself because as long as the flesh is with us we must be on our guard. It know how important it is to be salt and light to a dark world. Separation is important, but that too can be carried to an extreme and turn into spiritual pride and I think that is what the Apostle Paul was trying to convey. Any stand we take is to be taken from a position of humility and sorry, but I don’t see that in your remarks.
There are many other topics much more important and personally I think this is a bunny trail. Please understand, I respect your beliefs and extend grace to you in that although I think it does more harm than good and shuts more doors than it opens. But I don’t judge you on that – I extend grace and peace to you.
Hi Deborah,
Thank you for your labour, I’ve learned so much during the last few weeks playing catch-up, reading through dozens of well researched articles published on DTW, and the comments. I have started my own little research projects on faith issues that I felt a little uneasy with, but never enough, to make effort to investigate properly. Now I see the real dangers in just trusting blindly, in what others say from their pulpits or write in books! The Word of God is very clear, it is indeed a lamp for my feet, and a light onto my path, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, I will always know what His perfect will is for me. As we are growing closer to the character of Jesus, we must put away every evil trait, as He shows it to us, especially now, in these last days. May God bless u, and others that contribute to these discussions in a fruitful manner. Keep up the good work, may the Word of God always have the last say.
P.S. I have found a lot of stuff on the net, regarding christian universalism, its dangerous, spreading rapidly, “compliments” to F/B
You are one tough puppy, and your family is very lucky to have someone like you. Many families don’t. Keep walking that narrow path with Jesus as He protects you and keeps you safe during all the trials and tribulations that are still to come. I’ve got so much stuff to read into and had a mean headache the last 2 days so been a bit out of it, but hopefully tomorrow I’ll be back on track again.
Let’s talk about eating food sacrificed to other gods/idols:
If you look at your food products you will notice (well here in South Africa anyway) that practically every packaged food item is Halaal. That means it’s been prayed over and declared to Allah. I eat this food happily because my God, the one and only Living God whose Son Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins, made this food for us to eat. No false god can come and take away food that God created.
Back to Christmas, I don’t want to hang ornaments, put up a tree, or exchange presents (now) because this is part of the Nimrod ritual. Because I know the blasphemies that take place with the Queen of Heaven and her son, to associate these things to Jesus Christ is horrible. It’s not even Jesus’ birthday! And because of where I came from before I was saved, I can’t have anything ‘occult’ in my life. I won’t.
BL – I don’t think that mom4truth is being nasty at all, what she is saying is the truth. You think she is being nasty, but she is not. I have to take her side on this one, sorry. Mom4truth did not say it was a sin either, she is just saying it’s not right and something that needs to be looked into. If we are none the wiser to what it stands for that’s a different story, but because we know…and we carry on, covering it up with excuses, thinking we can get rid of certain things and that will make it ok, continuously searching our hearts trying to find peace, we actually allow Satan an open doorway.
Regarding KJV Only. Mom4truth – are you a KJV ONLY (else you are doomed to hell) type? I hope not.
Here is South Africa, Christmas has always been a small affair – it’s rare that you find anyone in SA with a nativity scene on their garden or Santa and his reindeer on their roofs, let alone a string of lights outside ones house. Shopping centers go all out, but only to attract customers to buy. At one shopping center the theme for this years Christmas is ‘passion’. Hmmmm passion? What that means, who knows. So yes the ‘birth of Jesus’ no longer belongs to Christmas anyhow and has been replaced by other symbols and meanings more suited to the Queen of Heaven and her son. Can we say that Christmas has been hijacked? Not really, it was never Jesus’ birthday to start off with. Us Christians were just fooled into believing it was so.
Debs, the Word tell us that truth is to be spoken in love and seasoned with grace. Neither came across to me from M4T’s remarks. We are to reason with one another, not hit each other over the head with the Bible. Also we are not to judge another’s heart or motives and it seemed to me that was what M4T was doing. I felt judged and condemned, not by the Lord, but by a sister in Christ. That should not be.
I have seen this attitude as a common thread in the KJV only folks. (not all to be fair.)
The issue of the holiday is a valid question and a thorny one to boot. Each one has to settle in their own mind and situation what their response will be.
Ok, here is a very fair question. How else could Mom4truth have told you the truth of the matter? (remembering that this is a continuation from a discussion started on another article months ago already). She laid out the facts and the facts were hard hitting truths. Reasoning means meeting somewhere in the middle, and unfortunately this is one of those many cases where it’s one or the other – truth or error.
We all have things in our lives that we do but should not do because it’s wrong (especially when we learn the truth of certain things) and sometimes someone comes along and tells us about these things and what they say seems mean, but it’s not. It only seems mean because truth hurts. Do you think there is not a week that goes by where I read stuff or study scripture and bow my head in shame because I am a sinner, and continuously ask Jesus for forgiveness because I am so pathetically human. And it’s only by His grace that I am saved, no one else’s. I do my best and my best will never be good enough, because while I am on this earth I will always be doing something sinful, but I will always be seeking by the guidance of the Holy Spirit to change. When I don’t want to change anymore, when put up resistance to God’s Word, then there is something wrong.
Who cares how the person said it (ok within reason), it’s WHAT they said that counts. If what mom4truth wrote was lies then you got plenty leg to stand on, but she spoke the truth and I really don’t think what she said was self-righteous at all. In these cases there always has to be someone who concedes to the other. So there will always be an argument, and meeting in the middle is NOT the solution to the problem.
The KJV Only thing is another story all together and I will deal with that separately.
To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. Consenting to these technologies will allow us to process data such as browsing behavior or unique IDs on this site. Not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions.
Functional
Always active
The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network.
Preferences
The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user.
Statistics
The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes.The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you.
Marketing
The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes.
To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. Consenting to these technologies will allow us to process data such as browsing behavior or unique IDs on this site. Not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions.
Functional
Always active
The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network.
Preferences
The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user.
Statistics
The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes.The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you.
Marketing
The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes.
Debs, thank you for posting this. Those who join with Roman Catholics in the name of peace or political or moral issues don’t realize what they are stepping into. It is a most unholy alliance and many evangelicals are being deceived and duped. Just keep getting the message out and exposing those deeds of darkness posing as an angel of light.
Burning Lamp-
“Those who join with Roman Catholics in the name of peace or political or moral issues don’t realize what they are stepping into. It is a most unholy alliance and many evangelicals are being deceived and duped…keep…exposing those deeds of darkness posing as an angel of light.”
Sort…of…like…Christmas?
I’m just sayin’…
mom4truth
Exactly like Christmas. lol. A day set aside for the Queen of Heaven’s son ‘Jesus’ or Horus.. or, or, or, or.
OK Mom,
How ’bout stickin’ to the main thing, clear biblical doctrine? Believers are divided on this issue and some faithful Christians acknowledge the bad roots of the holiday but choose not to throw the baby out with the bath. They see the holiday which is an established national holiday as an opportunity to share Christ and acknowledge Him as Savior.
Other believers choose not to celebrate it as their conscience dictates. One should not judge the other it seems to me. This is one of those areas of disagreement that is not nearly as important as others. May God grant us all wisdom in these matters and how best to glorify the Lord.
Of course such “holidays” as Halloween there is no question. It is disturbing to see more and more Christians see value in celebrating it and even some who chastise other believers for what they call narrow-mindedness and a missed opportunity.
Maybe Debs will decided to do an article on Halloween as it is coming up next month and is celebrated world wide.
Yeah, yeah, yeah- I understand. And worshiping false gods- clearly not a Biblical doctrine thingy. If that baby is evil, it’s going down the drain.
The whole “national holiday” thing doesn’t move me: Lk 16:15 “And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.” I can teach about Jesus 364 other days of the year just fine without compromising God’s standards…
We agree on Halloween.
Judges 2:11-15 sums up His attitude on Baal worship, or Christ-mass as we so lovingly call it (hence my sarcasm) and His attitude on the holiday that celebrates Ishtar (or that precious holiday with bunnies, and ducks, and eggs- Easter). I am thinking He DOESN’T LIKE IT!
Mom4truth
After our whole conversation under the John McArthur article on Christmas I had a whole long conversation with my mom about it and we both came to the same conclusion at the end – when you know the truth about Christmas there is no ways you can celebrate that day because you know it’s utterly satanic. So what do we do? We’ll it’s still a national holiday, and as a family we get together and have a braai (BBQ), something we do on every other national holiday. We don’t even put one thought into the fact that it’s supposed to be this pagan ‘Christmas’ day. We don’t put up a tree, ornaments, prepare food for the occasion.
Well, it seems inevitable that even believers with discernment can’t agree on everything but extend grace.
Case in point: I have a friend who doesn’t celebrate Christmas, Resurrection Sunday (as fundies call it). Instead she celebrates the Feast Days and Hannukah (sp?). She has gone Messianic and off the charts into some serious error. She may be legalistically right on the one hand but has gone from the frying pan into the fire. One must guard against a self-righteous attitude.
Fundie pastors who I respect and are as far from being pragmatic as one can get believe that Christmas can be an outreach opportunity. The same goes for Resurrection Sunday minus the eggs, bunnies, etc. If the focus is on Christ and Christ alone, it is a time to reflect upon the meaning of Christ’s birth and His sacrifice.
To my friends who do not celebrate Christmas due to conviction, I respect that and do not send them Christmas cards or mention the holiday. To others who are not saved, I send a Christ-centered card with a salvation tract and a personal testimony. With most of these folks I would never have that opportunity otherwise. It is also a time when I can encourage other believers who live in other parts of the country. My conscience is clear on this. I am aware of the pagan roots of Christ-mass, but I don’t think that withdrawing from it accomplishes anything as it does with Halloween that is blatantly evil. My house is dark on that night and my heart breaks for all the children who revel in the celebration of evil because their parents allow and even encourage it.
Now the issue of Santa Claus. Not only does this detract from the real meaning but it is a lie which is sin.
If one were to examine our calendar for instance, we would find occult roots in the names of the days and months. But we don’t make up another calendar. There are many other facets to our society that if examined reflect paganism. But if we dedicate the days to the Lord it does not matter.
I believe that the “Christianizing” of paganism is a great sin such as “Christian Yoga” and “Hula worship” for example. I want to make that perfectly clear.
At Christmas my home has a biblical nativity minue the wise men – it is not Marian or Catholic. I have cute snowmen, but I make sure that Christ is the focus. The Christmas story is read as a family and we thank the Lord for sending His Son. We make it clear that He is not just a baby in a manger, but a risen Lord who paid the price for our sins. Yes, we talk about Jesus many other times during the year, but this occasion is used to concentrate on that. It is also a time of joy for our family to celebrate together and think of others less fortunate and also of the lost and how important it is to share the Gospel.
As for the tree, many use Jeremiah 10 to say that is wrong. The Scripture is talking about an idol made out of wood, covered with silver and gold. It is true that heathen people hav sometimes worshiped trees. They hav also worshiped animals, the wind, the ocean, the sun and the stars. One must be careful about decorations – most of the “angels” that are sold to be put on tree tops are unscriptural and an affront to God. The garish displays many people put in their yards are disgusting but that does not negate Christians putting up something about Christ that honors Him and is a witness. We are to be salt and light to the world.
I don’t try to convince my friends who choose not to celebrate the day – that is between them and the Lord.
Each one should follow their conscience and we should all respect one another and not condemn one another.
The Apostle Paul in Romans 14: 13-19 covers this. I do not include friends who choose not to celebrate Christmas out of love and they in turn should not look down upon believers who have examined the issue and look at it in a different way.
The bottom line is love. I have intended no offense and I hope none is taken.
Mom4Truth / BL
I don’t have a problem with people celebrating Christmas – Christmas for me is one of those days that I honestly could not be bothered about. I used to celebrate it, now I don’t want too because of what it means. No law involved here. I still have to buy people presents on Christmas because well others in my family and extended family want pressies. And I won’t mind accepting a few pressies either lol. The day means nothing to me – zip, zero, nada. But if a child asked me what the day meant, I would tell them all about Jesus 🙂
Why don’t we look at another day for example… Holy Cross Day. I heard recently that for a Christian to celebrate Holy Cross day is ok. In fact this person is so adamant that worshiping a piece of wood from Jesus’ cross or in the form of Jesus’ cross is not idolatry that I am now the bad one for ever mentioning it on my website and I have sinned against God or something (I think Catholics say that a lot). Or Lent, apparently this is a Christian day as well according to this person… and not RC.
Oh my, talk about the pan into the fire – Holy Cross Day is Anglican and picked up by the Lutherans. and Lent a Christian observance? Methinks not.
Deborah (Discerning the World)
I cannot find the email subscription window. Would you please unsubscribe me manually?
[You have been unsubscribed]
Look at this… Mystical Tree of Life huh
“At the center of Christianity, at the center of the world, at the center of history, stands the Cross of Jesus. An instrument of humiliation and agonizing death, the Cross stands as a stark symbol of the hardship, pain, and sorrow of sinful humanity that has wandered far from the paradise God created for us to live in and enjoy. At the same time, the Cross is the remedy for the sin of the world, the mystical tree of life, and the throne of glory on which the Son of Man is exalted as the Son of God. When Jesus was lifted up on the Cross, he raised up all who have fallen under the burden of sin; when his body was broken on the Cross, he made the world whole; when he died on the Cross, he gave life to those who were perishing. The 20th century historian of religion Mircea Eliade observed: “Every Microcosm, every inhabited region, has a Centre; that is to say, a place that is sacred above all.” (“Symbolism of the Centre” in Images and Symbols. Princeton, 1991, p.39) For Judaism, “the hill of Zion [is] the very center of the world” (Psalm 48:2). The Temple in which God himself chose to dwell, even in its absence today, still orients the Jewish people and gives meaning and direction to their lives. For Christians, that center has moved a few hundred yards to the west, to the hill of Calvary, to the place where God suffered and died in the flesh, and rose again, establishing a new and unbreakable axis mundi (center of the world) by which the direction of all human endeavor is judged and permanently reoriented.” http://fullhomelydivinity.org/articles/cross.htm
Pagan, pagan, pagan
Amanda
Luke 16:15 (Amplified Bible)
15But He said to them, You are the ones who declare yourselves just and upright before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted and highly thought of among men is detestable and abhorrent (an abomination) in the sight of God. [I Sam. 16:7; Prov. 21:2.]
Amanda, Elmarie and Grant
My mother has asked that you stop sending her emails. My mother is not one bit interested in what any of you have to say, as she knows for a fact that you are all 100% incorrect. You are not winning my mother over to your side because you are biblically incorrect and always will be in this regard. The End.
Hello guys. I rejoice in your family’s decision, Deborah.
(As you can probably tell!) Christ-mass is something I believe is not up for opinion, it must be viewed, as all things, through the lens of Scripture.
BL- you mentioned that you don’t agree with Santa, “Now the issue of Santa Claus. Not only does this detract from the real meaning but it is a lie which is sin.” Can I ask, what is the real meaning? You certainly wouldn’t be implying that the day was “really” about Christ in the first place, right? By your own conscience you say that a lie is a sin- saying that day was ever intended to honor Christ is a lie…which is a sin, right? So, it’s living a lie to celebrate X-mas, even if you say it is for Christ, because it really isn’t- making that a sin. And Santa fits in just fine because it is Satan’s day anyway!
As I have often said, I am not interested in anyone’s “opinions” on the matter. No one has been able to give me a Biblical defense for celebrating a day that is a known pagan holiday. As I shared earlier, the story from Judges (2:11-15) clearly lays out God’s opinion of His people partaking in the pagan celebrations of their day. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how anyone who claims the banner of being a Christ-one, can partake in pagan celebrations made popular by Roman Catholic traditions. What do you think the Lord is referencing when He warns in the book of Revelation to be not partakers of her sins, lest you also be partakers of her plagues? I assure you, our witness is not compromised when we abstain from the things highly esteemed of men, which are abominations before God. I have had a very precious friend who happens to be a very blind and deceived Jewish Rabbi compliment our decision to not celebrate the RC/Babylon mystery religion holidays, claiming he had yet to see “Christians” actually live what they profess to believe.
I agree with you about the Jewish feasts deceptions, but, either way, the truth is that people are not reading their Word or they would know better. Paul clearly warns against that, just as the Lord graciously warns us against partaking in pagan celebrations.
You mention that we must be careful about what decorations we use in our homes. I couldn’t agree with you more. Our family does not have any images, any crosses (another cleverly disguised graven image), stars, etc. on our walls because we know that they are affiliated with paganism. In your example you outline that our calender days/months have been perverted by paganism- you are right. However, we cannot exclude ourselves from its use. We can, however, rid our lives of anything unpleasing that we have control over. This is not a sufficient excuse. Again, we don’t need images/celebrations to share the message of Christ. And again, you must give me Bible for that. It is the MESSAGE of the cross that saves, not thumping our Jesus fish on someone’s forehead. I see people driving around with “Not of this World” bumper stickers. Yeah right! They usually have the lowest cut shirts, the trendiest hair, the loudest music, and are usually texting on their ridiculously over-priced cell phones. What about that is “not of this world”?
Remember, He is looking for a PECULIAR people, zealous of good works? Will the peculiar Christians please stand up, because you’re starting to blend in with the world!
As for getting/giving presents (pressies), our family/friends know we will have no part of this pagan celebration. None for us and none from us.
BL- you spoke of the nativity scene. Don’t you know that, first of all, if it really was Jesus, that violates the “No Graven Images” commandment? Second of all, it’s not Jesus! It’s baby Baal! Mary, Queen of Heaven. The nativity is based off of the celebration of Nimrod’s day! It’s blasphemy to call that my Christ!
This is not a matter of opinion and God, as shown in Judges, does not take it lightly. Those who celebrate this cleverly deceptive day and think God winks at it are guilty of holding to a form of godliness, but denying its power. And God would never compromise to get His message across- there is not one Biblical example for that.
Acts 17:30 “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:”
Mom4truth / BL
You know when I was writing about the presents part I had conviction about that, because if I give presents and receive presents I am partaking in the actual pagan celebration. Oi vey… lol. You are right, and as harsh as your words seem (which they aren’t) you are 100% correct. When we find out the truth on a matter (ESPECIALLY considering the TIMES WE LIVE IN) we have to obey Jesus’ commandments on these issues. We are to come out of Babylon, not stay in her. And God is calling us out of her at this time.
Deborah-
Your bold act of humility warms my heart and serves as a powerful example of servant-leadership. Lk 9:48 “for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.” I am so thankful for the opportunity to dialogue with you and as “Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.”
Praise the Lord of Hosts for you, Deborah.
mom4truth
Nah shucks, it’s just the truth lol. We ALL have only ONE person to answer to at the end of the day and that is Jesus. There are many things that we hold onto that we think are so precious or fun or righteous, meanwhile they are to our detriment. When I left the world behind me and gave my life to Jesus I gave up everything for Him. I won’t hesitate to do it again and again and again. In fact I did it recently; told a few people to leave me alone, thereby choosing Jesus Christ instead.
Thank you for your ongoing support mom4truth. Thank you! Times are tough, I can tell you that.
To everything you just said- ditto. My family has lost all (no I’m not exaggerating) of our friends and most of our family. The remaining family members that we are still in relationship with are very much unsaved, but we have open opportunities at every occasion to speak the gospel. The hour is so late. Every night I lay my head down, I say to the Lord, “Really? This wasn’t the day?” I can imagine what Simeon felt like as he awaited the news of his Savior’s arrival! We often feel so very alone, but I know, according to God’s Word, there ARE others out there. I find it pretty surreal that I have managed to meet one all the way in Africa. My family prays every night for Africa that the Word of Truth would be brought there in the midst of all the deception thanks to all of the apostate/emergent ministries that are there teaching the false gospel. It was actually amazing- a few nights ago we had a solicitor come to our door trying to sell us something. We invited him in, he thought to sell us a product, and we intended to share the gospel. He stayed for a couple of hours. We found out he is in school in London but is originally from Africa. After speaking the gospel to him, he affirmed that he wanted to reject the lies he had been taught and accept the truth of Jesus as his Savior. He inquired as to how he could know the Truth. My daughter gave him her Bible and we asked him to bring it with him to Africa to share the Truth. He got tears in his eyes and said, “Wow, that’s big.” Now only the Lord knows what he will do with the seeds that were planted.
Someone passed this verse along to me as a means of encouragement, and now, I pass it to you:
Hebrews 6:10: “For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.”
And now on to our next debate: KJV Only! 🙂
mom4truth
South Africa is great, I love it. But the crime here is violent and shocking. The rest of Africa is dark and painful. The mind boggles at what goes on in Africa. Witchcraft interlaces everything in Africa.
Re: KJV only. Just be careful, I might push you off the bridge 😉 haha *rolling on the floor laughing*
Amanda, Elmarie and Grant
Pay attention: My MOTHER HAS ASKED that you STOP sending her emails. My mother is NOT one bit interested in what any of you have to say, as SHE KNOWS for a FACT that you are all 100% INCORRECT. You are not winning my mother over to your side because you are all BIBLICALLY INCORRECT and ALWAYS will be in this regard, therefore my mother wants nothing to do with any of you. The End.
Mom, I better understand your blanket condemnation of my heart when I learned you are KJV only and want to debate that. Quite frankly, your attitude comes across as self-righteous, and your words to me were unloving with not one ounce of grace in them. That my dear is the sound of a clanging cymbal.
Like the Apostle Paul, who did not forbid the eating of meat sacrificed to idols, I do not believe that participating in the celebration of Christmas is a sin and it can be used to His glory. I have examined this issue from time to time over the years and know all the arguments.
Paul’s point was that some things are a matter of conscience and he says to be careful about judging our brothers and sisters in those type of matters. Yes, it is fine to state what you believe, but don’t condemn others.Follow your conscience, but don’t judge others. Do you realize you are condemning literally thousands of fellow believers who honor truth and believe as I do? I am speaking about the remnant here, not the general Body that is largely in apostasy.
You are speaking to someone who loves the Lord and His Gospel and takes a stand for truth. I am not a Baal worshiper. When I put up the simple nativity scene in my front yard (and one can drive for miles seeing only secular symbols) I am taking a stand for Christ. I believe in the full, complete and uncompromised Gospel and am very active in evangelism according the the Word of God.
I try to constantly search my heart as to my actions and try not to think too highly of myself because as long as the flesh is with us we must be on our guard. It know how important it is to be salt and light to a dark world. Separation is important, but that too can be carried to an extreme and turn into spiritual pride and I think that is what the Apostle Paul was trying to convey. Any stand we take is to be taken from a position of humility and sorry, but I don’t see that in your remarks.
There are many other topics much more important and personally I think this is a bunny trail. Please understand, I respect your beliefs and extend grace to you in that although I think it does more harm than good and shuts more doors than it opens. But I don’t judge you on that – I extend grace and peace to you.
Hi Deborah,
Thank you for your labour, I’ve learned so much during the last few weeks playing catch-up, reading through dozens of well researched articles published on DTW, and the comments. I have started my own little research projects on faith issues that I felt a little uneasy with, but never enough, to make effort to investigate properly. Now I see the real dangers in just trusting blindly, in what others say from their pulpits or write in books! The Word of God is very clear, it is indeed a lamp for my feet, and a light onto my path, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, I will always know what His perfect will is for me. As we are growing closer to the character of Jesus, we must put away every evil trait, as He shows it to us, especially now, in these last days. May God bless u, and others that contribute to these discussions in a fruitful manner. Keep up the good work, may the Word of God always have the last say.
P.S. I have found a lot of stuff on the net, regarding christian universalism, its dangerous, spreading rapidly, “compliments” to F/B
Christiaan
You are one tough puppy, and your family is very lucky to have someone like you. Many families don’t. Keep walking that narrow path with Jesus as He protects you and keeps you safe during all the trials and tribulations that are still to come. I’ve got so much stuff to read into and had a mean headache the last 2 days so been a bit out of it, but hopefully tomorrow I’ll be back on track again.
Let’s talk about eating food sacrificed to other gods/idols:
If you look at your food products you will notice (well here in South Africa anyway) that practically every packaged food item is Halaal. That means it’s been prayed over and declared to Allah. I eat this food happily because my God, the one and only Living God whose Son Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins, made this food for us to eat. No false god can come and take away food that God created.
Back to Christmas, I don’t want to hang ornaments, put up a tree, or exchange presents (now) because this is part of the Nimrod ritual. Because I know the blasphemies that take place with the Queen of Heaven and her son, to associate these things to Jesus Christ is horrible. It’s not even Jesus’ birthday! And because of where I came from before I was saved, I can’t have anything ‘occult’ in my life. I won’t.
BL – I don’t think that mom4truth is being nasty at all, what she is saying is the truth. You think she is being nasty, but she is not. I have to take her side on this one, sorry. Mom4truth did not say it was a sin either, she is just saying it’s not right and something that needs to be looked into. If we are none the wiser to what it stands for that’s a different story, but because we know…and we carry on, covering it up with excuses, thinking we can get rid of certain things and that will make it ok, continuously searching our hearts trying to find peace, we actually allow Satan an open doorway.
Regarding KJV Only. Mom4truth – are you a KJV ONLY (else you are doomed to hell) type? I hope not.
Here is South Africa, Christmas has always been a small affair – it’s rare that you find anyone in SA with a nativity scene on their garden or Santa and his reindeer on their roofs, let alone a string of lights outside ones house. Shopping centers go all out, but only to attract customers to buy. At one shopping center the theme for this years Christmas is ‘passion’. Hmmmm passion? What that means, who knows. So yes the ‘birth of Jesus’ no longer belongs to Christmas anyhow and has been replaced by other symbols and meanings more suited to the Queen of Heaven and her son. Can we say that Christmas has been hijacked? Not really, it was never Jesus’ birthday to start off with. Us Christians were just fooled into believing it was so.
Debs, the Word tell us that truth is to be spoken in love and seasoned with grace. Neither came across to me from M4T’s remarks. We are to reason with one another, not hit each other over the head with the Bible. Also we are not to judge another’s heart or motives and it seemed to me that was what M4T was doing. I felt judged and condemned, not by the Lord, but by a sister in Christ. That should not be.
I have seen this attitude as a common thread in the KJV only folks. (not all to be fair.)
The issue of the holiday is a valid question and a thorny one to boot. Each one has to settle in their own mind and situation what their response will be.
BL
Ok, here is a very fair question. How else could Mom4truth have told you the truth of the matter? (remembering that this is a continuation from a discussion started on another article months ago already). She laid out the facts and the facts were hard hitting truths. Reasoning means meeting somewhere in the middle, and unfortunately this is one of those many cases where it’s one or the other – truth or error.
We all have things in our lives that we do but should not do because it’s wrong (especially when we learn the truth of certain things) and sometimes someone comes along and tells us about these things and what they say seems mean, but it’s not. It only seems mean because truth hurts. Do you think there is not a week that goes by where I read stuff or study scripture and bow my head in shame because I am a sinner, and continuously ask Jesus for forgiveness because I am so pathetically human. And it’s only by His grace that I am saved, no one else’s. I do my best and my best will never be good enough, because while I am on this earth I will always be doing something sinful, but I will always be seeking by the guidance of the Holy Spirit to change. When I don’t want to change anymore, when put up resistance to God’s Word, then there is something wrong.
Who cares how the person said it (ok within reason), it’s WHAT they said that counts. If what mom4truth wrote was lies then you got plenty leg to stand on, but she spoke the truth and I really don’t think what she said was self-righteous at all. In these cases there always has to be someone who concedes to the other. So there will always be an argument, and meeting in the middle is NOT the solution to the problem.
The KJV Only thing is another story all together and I will deal with that separately.
A group of German Catholics wants to do away with Santa Claus because of the fictional figure’s commercial hype. http://www.news24.com/World/News/Catholics-want-Santa-free-Christmas-20101006
LOL, isn’t that funny.