Paul Washer – Practice the Presence: Silence and Meditation

Paul Washer

Paul Washer – Practice the Presence: Silence and Meditation

Notes on the Youtube video below (Busyness and Spiritual Discipline by Paul Washer):

The first part has audio problems, but after minute 4:44 the audio is fixed. You can hear him repeating the same lies and leading sincere people away from genuine Faith in Christ. The Presence of God is not an experience. I am in God’s Presence through the blood of Jesus Christ, not by being silent and sitting at His feet. To be sitting at His feet means that you are learning from Him the truth that is written in the Word of God.

Comments are sprinkled throughout.  At the very beginning of the message he speaks of silence and meditation (5:50) and cites a poem or something that refers to the sacred silence (6:53).  The part were he talks about Practice the Presence is at (21:45) – Paul Washer is quoting “Brother Lawrence – Contemplative Monk”  (1611- 1691). 

Busyness and Spiritual Discipline by Paul Washer – Youtube on December 10, 2009.

 

Who was Brother Lawrence:He uses the phrase “Practice the Presence” and refutes the idea that you can pray as you go, but then he gives it heed by saying you must practice the presence in a time of stillness and solitude. He didn’t use those exact words, but that is the message. These are the buzz words. This teaching is being woven into the teaching of those who are trusted and it is sad to recognise it for what it is. A little leaven meant to leaven the whole lump.

 width=“[T]he 17th century [French] monk, Brother Lawrence, developed a technique–mostly through inspiration and intuition–which leads to results akin to those developed by the continued practice of either Zen or mindfulness meditation. In The Practice of the Presence of God” he wrote:

“This made me resolve to give the all for the All: so after having given myself wholly to GOD, to make all the satisfaction I could for my sins, I renounced, for the love of Him, everything that was not He; and I began to live as if there was none but He and I in the world … I worshipped Him the oftenest that I could, keeping my mind in His holy Presence, and recalling it as often as I found it wandered from Him. I found no small pain in this exercise, and yet I continued it, notwithstanding all the difficulties that occurred, without troubling or disquieting myself when my mind had wandered involuntarily. I made this my business, as much all the day long as at the appointed times of prayer; for at all times, every hour, every minute, even in the height of my business, I drove away from my mind everything that was capable of interrupting my thought of GOD. Such has been my common practice ever since I entered into religion.”   Western Mystical Traditions (Quote by Brother Lawrence from First Letter)

Source:  www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/brotherlawrence.htm

Paul Washer and a few of his staff members at HeartCry Missionary often quote C.S. Lewis and promote his books along with J.I. Packer

Lewis’s Acceptance by Evangelicals width=

  1. According to a Christianity Today reader’s poll in 1998, Lewis was rated the most influential writer.
  2. Though Lewis died in 1963, sales of his books have risen to two million a year.
  3. In an article commemorating the 100th anniversary of Lewis’s birth, J.I. Packer called him “our patron saint.”
  4. Christianity Today said Lewis “has come to be the Aquinas, the Augustine, and the Aesop of contemporary Evangelicalism” (“Still Surprised by Lewis,” Christianity Today, Sept. 7, 1998).
  5. Wheaton College sponsored a lecture series on C.S. Lewis, and Eerdmans published “The Pilgrim’s Guide” to C.S. Lewis.

Lewis’s Heresies

  1. Christianity Today noted that he was “a man whose theology had decidedly unevangelical elements” (CT, Sept. 7, 1998).
  2. He believed in purgatory, confessed his sins to a priest, and had the last rites performed by a Catholic priest (C.S. Lewis: A Biography, pp. 198, 301). He received the Catholic sacrament of last rites on July 16, 1963.
  3. Lewis rejected the doctrine of bodily resurrection (Biblical Discernment Ministries Letter, Sept.-Oct. 1996).
  4. He believed there is salvation in pagan religions.
  5. Lewis denied the total depravity of man and the substitutionary atonement of Christ.
  6. He believed in theistic evolution and rejected the Bible as the infallible Word of God.
  7. He denied the biblical doctrine of an eternal fiery hell, claiming, instead, that hell is a state of mind: “And every state of mind, left to itself, every shutting up of the creature within the dungeon of its own mind-is, in the end, Hell” (Lewis, The Great Divorce, p. 65).

Source:  www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/03/29/the-new-evangelical-evil-fit-for-a-new-dark-age/

Are all the visible leaders falling for mysticism?

All I can say is that when Jesus Christ came the first time, it was a bunch of nobody’s that he called. The leaders were too busy with their own kingdom to be bothered with the Truth. In fact we know that they wanted to destroy the Messiah. There were apparently a few that eventually listened, but not the majority.

This is the other thing that we must always discern. Has someone changed their theology to be more biblical or are they moving away from a biblical position. We must discern which way their theology is moving. I would hate for someone to quote me from the fall of 2006, because I would have been endorsing the very same teaching that I now oppose. Unfortunately, the trend seems to be exactly what the Bible says, Apostasy!  That is what we are witnessing.

The thing that makes Washer appealing is his stance against lukewarm Christians and push for personal holiness. Funny how we always seems gravitate back to the law. But as Christians we are not under the law, but under grace.

Paul Washer is a staunch Calvinist believing in the 5 points of Calvinism (TULIP)

  • Total Hereditary Depravity
  • Unconditional Election
  • Limited Atonement
  • Irresistible Grace
  • Perseverance of the Saints

Paul Washer uses the Purpose Driven Church Model regarding Unity and Church Planting:

6. “Church Planting is the Primary Work of Missions. There are many gifts and callings in the body of Christ, but all of them are to work together on the mission field with the primary goal of planting a biblical church. It is one thing to do mass evangelism and to boast of the numbers of decisions; it is quite another to establish a biblical church.”   [Emphasis added] www.heartcrymissionary.com/about/statement_of_faith/essential_convictions

Paul Washer supports Dominion Theology/ Kingdom Now Teaching:

7. “True Missions is Costly. Amy Carmichael explained that missions is no more and no less than an opportunity to die. We live in a fallen world that is at enmity with God and opposes His truth; therefore, missions and suffering go hand in hand. Any advancement of the kingdom of Christ into the dominion of the devil will be met with warfare. There are many countries and people groups where  martyrdom cannot be avoided”.  [Emphasis added] www.heartcrymissionary.com/about/statement_of_faith/essential_convictions

[DTW note:  Even though “Amy Carmichael” is speaking about real warfare.  Spiritual warfare can be applied to this as well.  The buzz words – “advancement of the Kingdom of Christ” is what taking dominion is all about]

Paul Washer- Hear tCry Missionary Society

Paul Washer refers to HeartCry Missionary as a SOCIETY

This is very concerning.  Born Again Christians are not part of a society.  They are part of the Body of Christ.   Paul Washer considers his ministry a society of like minded people, with similar interests, purposes and passions.

He is subtly promoting Unity.  Like minded people?  Why not say born again Christians? Anyhow, it’s all about like-minded people coming together (does not matter what type of Christian you are) as long as you are coming together with one purpose.

“The HeartCry Missionary Society is not a para-church organisation, rather, we are a ministry under the authority and supervision of a local New Testament Church and its elders.

We call ourselves a society simply because the word denotes a proper association of people with similar interests, purposes, or passions. Those of our church and those who faithfully support this ministry have one abiding purpose:  That God’s Name be great among the nations through the redemption of men and the building up of Christ’s bride.”  [Emphasis added] —www.heartcrymissionary.com/about/accountability/church_and_elders

Some of HeartCry Missionary Recommended Links:

  • Grace to You by John MacArthur –  in-depth Bible teaching brings the life-transforming truth of God’s Word to millions of people every day.

[DTW note:  John Mac Arthur is a Calvinist.  Also see article here on John MacArthur exposed – UN connections, and denied the Blood of Jesus Christ and compares Jesus’ Blood as just being ‘liquid’:  John MacArthur I pray this is NOT true! ]

  • Desiring God  by John Piper – Provides God Centered resources from the ministry of Dr. John Piper.

[DTW note: John Piper supports Rick Warren wholeheartedly including contemplative spirituality as he condones Mark Driscoll.     See article on John Piper:  John Piper – Taking Leave and Asks for Forgiveness .      Mark Driscoll on meditation:  Mark Driscoll’s RESURGENCE and EMERGENCE with Catholicism

  • Justin Peters Ministries

[DTW note:  Justin Peters is also a Calvinist]

[EDITED:  27 May 2010 – Paul Washer has rescinded his support for Bill Graham in recent years (The Youth conference video below was filmed in 2002).]

Paul Washer promotes Billy Graham starting 37:00 min into the video.

Billy Graham denies Jesus Christ

Paul Washer and most of the staff at HeartCry Missionary believe in Amillennialism:

Here is a reply to an email I sent to Paul Washer’s Ministry over 2 years ago asking them about Pre-Tribulation, Post-Tribulation, the Rapture, etc.

 from:   Marc Glass <mdglass[at]heartcrymissionary. com>
date:    Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 6:40 PM
subject:   Re:   HeartCry Missionary Society: For Paul Washer / Marc Glass

Deborah,

There are, basically, 3 views on eschatology (the study of the end times).
The first, which you’re most familiar with, is classified as pre-millennial.
A second, as you have mentioned post-millennial.  The third, and what most
of HeartCry’s staff believes, amillennial.
  One very important thing to keep
in mind is that there has been no consensus on what is the correct view for
2,000 years of Christian history.  There have been very good and godly men
in each eschatological camp.  The proper thing to do is to state what you
believe (and just as important, why you believe it) and then have grace and
love towards those who disagree.  This is certainly an issue that if we can
say anything about with certainty, it is that the Scriptures are not
perfectly clear on it.  God bless.

Marc Glass

What is Amillennialism:

Amillennialism (Latin: a- “no” + millennialism)

Amillennialism is a view in Christian end-times theology named for its rejection of the theory that Jesus Christ will have a thousand-year long, physical reign on the earth. This is in opposition to pre-millennial and some post-millennial views of chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation.

In contrast, the amillennial view holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age, (or more rarely, that it ended with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 – see Preterism).

Amillennialism holds that while Christ’s reign during the millennium is spiritual in nature, at the end of the church age, Christ will return in final judgement and establish a permanent physical reign.”

Teaching

“Amillennialism teaches that the Kingdom of God will not be physically established on earth throughout the “millennium”, but rather

  • that Jesus is presently reigning from heaven, seated at the right hand of God the Father,      [DTW Note:  All mankind has to do is preach the gospel and turn the world into a Christian world so that Christ may finally return and judge the wicked]
  • that Jesus also is and will remain with the church until the end of the world, as he promised at the Ascension,    [DTW Note:   This is because they believe the Church is Israel]
  • that at Pentecost, the millennium began, as is shown by Peter using the prophecies of Joel, about the coming of the kingdom, to explain what was happening,     [DTW Note:   Again they can make this claim because they believe that the Church is Israel and that all prophecies have been fulfilled since 70 A.D.]
  • and that, therefore the church and its spread of the good news is Christ’s kingdom.     [DTW Note:   The church and it’s spreading of the good news is NOT Christ’s Kingdom.  The Kingdom of God is the Holy Spirit in every born again Christians life. Amazing how the correct interpretation of scripture changes EVERYTHING.]

Amillennialism also teaches that the binding of Satan described in Revelation has already occurred.

Therefore Satan has been prevented from deceiving the nations  i.e., he can’t prevent the spreading of the gospel.   This is the only binding he will suffer in history.

Amillennialism is sometimes associated with Idealism as both teach a symbolic interpretation of many of the prophecies of the Bible and especially the Book of Revelation.     [DTW Note:   Idealism – the tendency to represent things in their ideal forms, rather than as they are.]

Medieval and Reformation periods

Amillennialism gained ground after Christianity became a legal religion. It was systematised by St. Augustine in the fourth century, and this systematisation carried amillennialism over as the dominant eschatology of the Medieval and Reformation periods. Augustine was originally a premillennialist, but he retracted that view, claiming the doctrine was carnal.

Amillennialism was the dominant view of the Protestant Reformers. The Lutheran Church formally rejected chiliasm in the The Augsburg Confession-

“Art. XVII., condemns the Anabaptists and others ‘who now scatter Jewish opinions that, before the resurrection of the dead, the godly shall occupy the kingdom of the world, the wicked being everywhere suppressed.‘”

Likewise, the Swiss Reformer, Heinrich Bullinger wrote up the Second Helvetic Confession which reads

We also reject the Jewish dream of a millennium, or golden age on earth, before the last judgement.”

John Calvin wrote in Institutes that chiliasm is a “fiction” that is “too childish either to need or to be worth a refutation.” He interpreted the thousand year period of Revelation 20 non-literally, applying it to the “various disturbances that awaited the church, while still toiling on earth.”

chil·i·asm –  the belief that Jesus Christ will return to earth in visible form (after the Tribulation) and establish a kingdom too last 1000 years.

Modern times

Amillennialism has been widely held in the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches as well as in the Roman Catholic Church, which generally follows Augustine on this point and which has deemed that pre-millennialism “cannot safely be taught.

Amillennialism is also common among “mainline” Protestant denominations such as the Lutheran, Reformed, Disciples of Christ, and Anglican churches, and even has a significant following amongst Evangelical Christian denominations.

Source:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amillennialism

Comparison between Amillennialism and Dominion Theology

  • The belief in Amillennialism or Preterism also called Victorious eschatology is part and parcel of Dominionist Theology.

Amillennialists believes that we are living in the millennial era and Jesus reigns spiritually from heaven.   The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D means that all prophecy in the Bible has been fulfilled – especially the Book of Revelation.

Amillennialists can claim the earth and must dominate by instilling Christian principles and a moral code which will create a Christian society so that Jesus can manifest His presence one day and judge the wicked.

Dominionists can claim the earth and must dominate by instilling Christian principles and a moral code which will create a Christian society so that Jesus can manifest His presence and rule the world.

Amillennialism teaches that the Church is now Israel because natural Israel has been cut off from God.

Dominionism teaches that the Church is now Israel because natural Israel has been cut off from God.  Another word for Dominion Theology is Replacement Theology that teaches that the Church is the replacement for Israel.  The many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel.  All promises Abraham made to Israel now belong to the Church.

Martin Luther, like the Catholics, did not hold that the book of Revelation should be among the Canonical books.

C. Peter Wagner (Head Apostle in the New Apostolic Reformation), has openly declared that he is Amillennial/Preterist.

Victorious eschatology fits dominion theology like a hand in a glove. Eberle and Trench say, “Before Jesus returns, the Church will rise in glory, unity, and maturity. The Kingdom of God will grow and advance until it fills the Earth.”

Victorious eschatology makes a convincing argument that the biblical prophecies concerning the “last days” or the “end times” were literally fulfilled at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The end times marked the ending of the old covenant and the beginning of the new covenant. Jesus literally will return to the earth in the future (see Matthew 24:36-25:46), but none of the signs of Matthew 24:4-34 are expected to precede His return, because they have already occurred. This is known by professional theologians as the Partial Preterist view of eschatology, and it is the view with which I personally identify.”  —  DOMINION! How Kingdom Action Can Change the World  p. 61

Dominionism can be traced back to Ambrose of Milan (338-397), who influenced St Augustine, (354-430).

Ambrose believed that the church should exert political authority over the state so that the courts and government would reflect the morality and ethics teachings of the church.

Martin Luther (1483-1546) and John Calvin (1509-1564) were ardent students of St Augustine’s theology.

In 1540 John Calvin set about creating a Genevan Society.

John Calvin’s plan was to incorporate the church into government by restructuring municipal government so that clergy would be involved in municipal decisions, particularly in disciplining the populace.

Dominionists are using a strategy called the ‘7 Mountains’ strategy where they are taking over top positions through a mass ‘Christian’ movement to infiltrate business, government, media, arts, education, family and religion.

Calvin imposed a hierarchy on the Genevan Society

Dominionists are doing the same through the 5 fold ministry concept (Ephesians 4:11).  The Apostles being at the top of the hierarchy who will govern the world.

Calvin began a series of statute reforms to impose a strict and uncompromising moral code on the city

Angus Buchan, Elza Meyer, Graham Power, Dion Forster, Stephen Johnson, Bennie Mostert with their programs such as Turn2God, Mighy Men Conference and Global Day of Prayer, are beginning to promote a strict moral and ethical code over the people of South Africa under the name of “Unashamedly Ethical, which I am sure will become a society soon enough.

The Genevan Society is actually a small scale model of what the Dominionists are currently doing to the whole world, and very successfully I might add.

Calvin’s idea was to enforce a new Christian moral code on the Geneva City.

Dominionists are currently doing the exact same.  They are enforcing an ethical code on mankind based on morals, values and principles,

A great emphasis is placed on man’s efforts, good works and the law – the right wing Christian calls it Revival, the left wing Religious calls its social transformation – revival of socialism.

Preterism and Dominionism originated from Roman Catholicism – The Preteristic Catholic church gives us the oldest Dominion Theology model.

Amillennialists believe that there will be no rapture.

Dominionists believe there will not be a rapture either.

Dominion Theology encompasses a special group of believers who will take control of the world.

These ‘special’ people are known as covenant people or overcomers (better known as ‘Joel’s Army’)

These chosen Dominionists see themselves as being elected/chosen by God to bring the world under the submission of the Church.

Calvinism believes in the same thing:  Unconditional Election or Predestination

In order for Dominionists to create their new Christian world, the people must be either coerced or lied too, into believing in this false Christianity.  Over time if you have not joined the movement you will be declared wicked and punished or purged from society

Calvinism believes in the same thing:   Total Hereditary Depravity

Amillennialists believe that there will be no anti-Christ in the future because he already showed himself in 70 A.D. which resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem – Satan is currently bound.  Therefore Revelation prophecy has already been fulfilled.

Amillennialists believe there is no coming tribulation as this too took place in 70 A.D.

[DTW note:  This is a very scary thought because if the anti-Christ has already been done and dusted back in 70 A.D then the current world should only expect Jesus Christ to return.  The world does not need to worry about an anti-Christ at all.  This is however completely false as masses of people will end up accepting the false Christ as being Jesus Christ the Son of God.]

The only project for Amillennialists/Dominionists is to reclaim the world for their Christ by preaching a gospel (does not matter what gospel as long as it mentions ‘Christ’).

And in doing so they will create a society of  people with similar interests, purposes, or passions that will dominate the world in order to create the Kingdom of God, a Heaven on Earth so that The Christ will return.  This is also called ‘God’s Plan or God’s Dream’.

Calvinism, Dominionism, Kingdom Now teaching, Replacement Theology, Latter Rain Manifest Sons of God teaching, Word of Faith, New Apostolic Reformation, Emerging Church Movement, Transformation, Reformation, etc, etc.  is all one and the same doctrine…

All these doctrines are can be classified under different things:

  • different names,
  • different terminology
  • different definitions
  • different interpretations of scripture
  • different eschatology
  • different theology
  • different ways of receiving the false spirit

The entire point is to make you think they are completely different doctrines when in fact they are all the same and each one of these movements will cause you to die spiritually if you don’t get out – they will ALL lead you back to Rome and to hell.

Please share:

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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John Chingford

I have just watched the entire 90 or so minutes of the Paul Washer video re the mysticism citicism. I just have to reply to the comments made about it because I want to be unbiassed and fair.

The comments were:

“It breaks my heart to hear him repeating the same lies and leading sincere people away from genuine Faith in Christ. The Presence of God is not an experience. I am in God’s Presence by Faith, not by being silent and sitting at His feet. To be sitting at His feet means that you are learning from Him the truth that is written in the Word of God.

Comments are sprinkled throughout. At the very beginning of the message he speaks of silence and meditation (5:50) and cites a poem or something that refers to the sacred silence (6:53). The part were he talks about Practice the Presence is at (21:45) – Paul Washer is quoting “Brother Lawrence – Contemplative Monk” (1611- 1691).
He uses the phrase “Practice the Presence” and refutes the idea that you can pray as you go, but then he gives it heed by saying you must practice the presence in a time of stillness and solitude. He didn’t use those exact words, but that is the message.”

Actually I did not come to those conclusions in what Paul Washer said. I never recall him saying that the presence of God is an experience. He did not state that we need to practice the presence of God. He was actually quoting what others were saying. Therefore he was using their quote in response to what they said i.e. they said “I do not need to get alone with God in quietness to practice the presence of God”.

He said “you cannot know God if you are too busy, i.e. you DO need to spend time alone with God. I agree totally with that. He did not go on to say “you need to practice the presence of God by being alone”. I never heard him say that. All he was doing was refuting the lazy ones who were making excuses not to go into the prayer closet by using the “practicing the presence” as theirv reason. It does not mean that he was endorsing that false theology.

Is the author of this site saying that he/she only needs to read the scriptures without talking to God? If so, they are wrong. Jesus made it clear that we need to go into the prayer closet and speak to God in secret. The psalmist says “be still and know that I am God”. Obviously that doesn’t necessarily mean being quiet although Proverbs state that we should be careful when we go into the presence of the Lord not being careless with our lips “Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.” Eccles 5:2.

Although I think that is referring to making careless vows. However, there is an important point in all this that we should take time to slow down from the speed and activity of life and pray as the Holy Spirit leads us after getting ourselves in the right frame of mind to pray by quieting our soul.

I TOTALLY reject the emerging contemplative spirituality method of stillness. I cannot recall Paul Washer (at any time in his message) alluding to that type of prayer. I listened carefully throughout because I was waiting to see if he discussed mysticism. There was nothing at all (within his message) related to Emerging mysticism.

Regarding silence and meditation and the poem. Paul W was talking about spending time away from the noise and busyness to spend time alone with God. I personally cannot focus properly in prayer and devotions if there is noise around me. I just cannot concentrate properly on reading His Word and hearing the “still small voice” unless it is relatively quiet. Paul W discussed how Jesus found solitary places to pray alone with the Father. I cannot discern error in what he said regarding prayer, at all. He never mentioned anything that sounded like EC meditation.

The meditation Paul W referred to was meditating on the Bible. Surely we all agree that we need to carefully read the scriptures and not be like the one who looks into the mirror and then goes away forgetting what we looked like (James).

I do feel that the author is a bit unfair with their criticisms. However, if another video proved that Paul W was an EC type “contemplative” I will accept it, but this video DID NOT show that.

Please let me know your thoughts if I missed something.

Thanks and God bless
John

John Chingford

As a follow on from my last comment.

Just to show that I am not biassed in favour of Paul Washer or any type of Calvinism or Calvinists please see the latest article on my blog which proves this. I think you are on the same page as me on this. Please let me know what you think

[removed]

I wrote the previous comment because I believe we should be balanced and always be accurate in what we present.

Paul

Elmarie,
I’m having a hard time reconciling your comments on this article on Paul Washer on one hand, and on the other hand your promotion of a conference at which he is a speaker without any warning : http://fortheloveofhistruth.com/2012/01/11/a-call-to-discernment-registration-now-open-justin-peters/

Has Paul Washer changed from what the article above says?

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you always.

Paul

Mark Penrith
Paul

DTW,
It didn’t take long for me to figure out they were calvinist. But WHY do they attempt to conceil it even on their blog? Why do they not state it plainly? I guess it is so that they can deceive the greatest number of undescerning with the mixture of truth and error they propagate.
Very, very sad indeed.
“To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not
according to this word, it is because there is no light in
them.” Isa 8:20

Lord Jesus, can the widespread deception and apostasy go further and deeper than this before the trumpet sound? Can it, Lord?
I’m sorry, but I feel like the rapture is going to happen anytime from now. Today I put my nicest suit to go to work, and I was thinking: If a colleague asks me: What’s special for today, I would simple answer: Oh, I’m just ready because the rapture could happen anytime from now, and I want to be as clean outside as I am inside when my Saviour appears.

Just a few thoughts.
Paul

Burning Lamp

Paul said:

Lord Jesus, can the widespread deception and apostasy go further and deeper than this before the trumpet sound? Can it, Lord?

Paul, I echo your heart cry every night as I lay my head on the pillow and every morning as I awake. Each new day seems to another shocking revelation of more apostasy. It is a heavy load to bear and the Blessed Hope becomes more Blessed every day as we anticipate our Savior’s return for us.

And as we speak there are more and more posing as “discernment” ministries that are shredding the precious pre-trib rapture. This thread is not about eschatology, but it is all related.

May the Lord lift you and sustain you until we do hear that trumpet to call us to our eternal home and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

Ben Blue

It makes me sad that we are so eager to cut down other christians :( I used to be the same but if we can learn anything by studying people like paul washer then we can learn that men are fallible and that we should be so humble as to assume we are quite fallible ourselves and that we should just meditate on God and not worry about feeding off of debates and tearing up other preachers. All that tearing up someone like Paul Washer will do is make us feel safe or something. If you truthfully think he is off then pray for him or pray that you will learn the truth. I learned a while back that it only hurt me to continually judge pastors. No man is good not one. We are no better than Paul Washer and Paul Washer knows he is no better than us. He is a man who still would cry and confess to God when he sins because he so hates how evil he is. He preaches messages that although have error, are full of great truth. I think arguing about stuff like pre trib or post trib and all of that nonsense is just avoiding the truth. The truth is that Jesus came down on this earth and lived perfectly and saved us and we are his servants since he bought us. I don’t know how it is serving him by being like this towards Paul Washer. Don’t be bothered by Paul Washer. If you disagree with what he says then so be it, God doesn’t look for us to be perfect. He looks at christ and we should all be so humbled and should cry that we bicker about such little things when most of the world hasn’t heart the gospel. Do we really miss the picture this much? Most of the people alive today are going to hell and we focus on such little things as what we believe about the rapture? We should try to build Paul Washer up in prayer and ask God to correct him and discipline him where he is wrong, not condemn him for a few beliefs. You will know them by their fruit. Paul Washer goes to the jungles of Peru where he could die and probably has had near death experiences and has served there for so long and he loves his family and leads a godly household unlike anyone ive heard of in the modern day and yet we condemn him for doctrine? Why don’t we condemn ourselves for focusing on such things and seek to produce fruit. Paul Washer isn’t perfect but he isn’t going to slow down to point out people and judge them unless they are leading people straight to hell. He does this with Joel Osteen because he doesn’t want people to think that the path is wide and easy and to be deceived. Let’s not focus on such silly things but lets focus on christ! if Paul messes up things like that because he can’t take his eyes off of christ and it was actually important he would have been convicted of it. He is concerned with whether he is leading people to heaven or hell. Let us all be concerned with these things. Doctrine don’t lead people to christ, the gospel does. but if we don’t keep our eyes on jesus we will have a hard time seeing the half of the world that doesn’t have any clue about the Gospel. Pray pray pray that we would have a heart that desires what God desires! we need to have a heart like Jesus had. That is what we need to focus on and is what we should spend our time on

Redeemed

Mr. Blue,

What do you do with the Bible verses that say we are to mark and avoid false teachers?

Why does the Bible tell us to be on the alert for false teaching and to be sure we are in sound doctrine?

Is not sound doctrine important to you?

Well, it was important to the Apostle Paul and it was important to the other Apostles – they gave their lives as have many others who were martyred because they stood for sound doctrine.

And most of all, it is important to our Lord Who gave His all for us.

How can you possibly justify this attitude and defend it by the Word of God. God is all about truth. Certainly, none of us is perfect, but we can and should stand on the truth and defend it.

Also, the Bible says we are to test the spirits and examine – apparently you don’t believe this. Then you don’t believe the Bible.

Batt

“The thing that makes Washer appealing is his stance against lukewarm Christians and push for personal holiness” Sorry, this comment is not accurate. The main drive of this man within the forty hours of sermon I have absorbed is he challenges everyone to press into Christ. To seek him in the word and prayer. In Paul Washer I have enjoyed a man who is not trying to take a following, but to drive people into Christ. PS: here in New Zealand, I might be one of the harshist critics of bible twisting preachers, but you guys take to a whole nother level!
..

Paul (Continue in His Word)

Debs,

I’ve found the parts of the article on Amillennialism and Dominionist theology so relevant about the movement CMFI I was part of that I’ve put that together to make an article on my blog [removed]

I link to this article at the bottom.

My prayer is that Fomum’s followers who read my exposing of his error will read this article as well. My experience with this false prophet and his teachings agrees with your diagnostic that Amillennialism and Dominionism/Kingdom Now are actually the exact same thing. He in particular spoke about the rapture, but when examining his teachings closely one finds that he contradicted himself, and didn’t actually believed what he said about the rapture.

Mary

Since I live in America, I would like to express my view that Paul Washer has a message to the church in America that is very timely and vital. We have made our religion into a sort of “fast food” mentality, with four laws for this, 7 principles for that and 10 steps for maturity, etc. We have huge media screens all over in our churches, just as we have at our stores and at our gas stations. We “entertain” our young people and do not preach a message that brings sanctification or even healing to the body of Christ or to the believer because we are trying to “tickle men’s ears”, or are afraid of offending anyone.
Man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart. I have listened to many of Paul Washer’s sermons and his message is one of a deep love for God and for people. He preaches sanctification and the believer’s responsibility to “grow up into the fullness of Christ.”

Redeemed

Mary, I have listened to PW and at first I was positively impressed. But as with anyone, I dig deeper to see where they are actually coming from. PW is a Calvinist. Calvinism is a false doctrine that guts the glorious Gospel. Hence, no matter how good or passionate he sounds, I do not consider him a valid teacher.
We must be wise as there are many who say all the right things, but they don’t stand up to the biblical doctrine test and that is ALL that matters. Mary, don’t be fooled – there are many who will mislead you unless you “dig deeper” and do the work of a good Berean.

Mary

Redeemed, I read your message this morning and have been thinking about it all day. I know I do not agree with Calvinism, and I never really heard the term, “Lordship Salvation” before, but I am sure it is wrong. Does anyone write to Paul and tell him of his error in his teachings?

Redeemed

Mary, you seem like a person who truly cares about truth and thank you for considering my words. When I first heard PW he sounded so refreshing and passionate – he comes across so sincere. I believe he is sincere – sincerely wrong.

Deborah is right – I am sure that PW has been approached in some way as have other Calvinists about their beliefs in which they are so firmly entrenched. But the fact of the matter is that the Bible does not require that a teacher with a large and public ministry be confronted personally. Their ministry is public, so there needs to be a public warning. If someone knows the teacher personally they have a responsiblity to go to them and try to reason with them. Coming from someone they do not know or consider credible will have little or not effect. This has been proven over and over.

I know it is disappointing and disheartening but we must face facts and the Word of God must be our final authority. There are so many traps and snares in these last days. Exposing false teachers is not an easy work, but so very necessary.

May the Lord give you wisdom and discernment.

John Chingford

Hi Everyone

Deborah, you raise an interesting point regarding intelligence. No-one can deny that PW is very intelligent. Rocket Scientists etc are very intelligent. However, as we know, intelligence never saves anyone but actually gets in the way of a soul humbly accepting what GOD says. As the psalmist said “the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom”. Intelligence is NOT wisdom. It is possible to be extremely intelligent but to be a fool. as the scriptures says “the fool says that there is no God”.

Therefore, for those who trust in their own intelligence ONLY to learn about God but do not humbly bow the knee to the Lord and allow the Holy Spirit to help them (acknowledging that in reality their intelligence is lacking) they will be deceived.

I truly believe that PW is sincere and is a humble man but is sincerely wrong in his extra biblical calvinistic theology. Clearly (in his enthusiasm for God) he has allowed himself to become brainwashed into that theology. He has become convinced so strongly (in his heart and mind) that Calvinism is true biblical theology, that he cannot see the forest for all the bramble and thorns that is in the way.

I have listened to many of PW videos. There is much about his preaching (specifically his 10 indictments of the church) that is commendable, but he mixes truth with error and preaches a “works” salvation which the apostle Paul criticised the Galatians against. The Apostle even stated that those who preach such things should be accursed.

For those who know the Bible and are discerning enough to spot error and not be deceived then PW can inspire us in our dedication to Jesus. However, in all humility and honesty have any of us reached that point 100%? Therefore, probably best not to listen to PW but find some other preacher to inspire us – one who DOES preach the whole Bible.

John Chingford

To add to my last comment:

Or much better still, let the Bible ALONE and the conviction of the Holy Spirit, inspire us.

Robbie

… you can go to your college and you can go to your school. If you ain’t got Jesus you’s an educated fool.

I said this before didn’t I?

Gustav

It is a sad day to see people put up a website (4 sure non-believers), finding fault with believers, even Billy Graham, publically suggesting even he denounced Jesus as the only way.

Really poeple. Study the Word and repent b4 it is 2 late.

Did not God say that there is a law written in the hearts of men whereby they live and be judged? Come now!!! Who r u 2 condemn and judge – u generation of vipers. God is the judge alone.

Enoch 1:9

Robbie

Gustav

Talking about judging. Calling us non-believers is a little unrighteous don’t you think?
The Bible speaks of the wilfully ignorant… that Gustav means “dumb on purpose”. Do your own studies. Watch Billy deny Jesus on a youtube video, straight from the horse’s mouth.

and… listen to what Deborah is saying. Pay attention and you may even get your verses in context. The way you quote scripture is a give-away. You are obviously paying someone to read AND interpret the Bible for. you.

Michael

Did not God say that there is a law written in the hearts of men whereby they live and be judged?

Wrong…where do you invent your false doctrine? Men’s hearts are despicably wicked and contaminated with sin.

The only solution chosen by God was the way of the cross. His only begotten Son paying the debt for our sins.

No truth can come out of an unregenerated heart…full stop…part truth yes but truth mixed with poisonous error is deceptively more deadly than plain and obvious lies.

The Word and the Holy Spirit are one in agreement…people who claim Holy Spirit annointing and do the opposite (or what’s not written in the Word) are fooling themselves and sadly others.

Gustav you have to be born-again, mate.

Robbie

Michael

Says I too…

Lucas

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