Ungodly Christian Pastors in our Churches?

Albert Mohler - pastors

Ungodly Christian Pastors in our Churches?

WHO would have KNOWN it was POSSIBLE?

Jesus said:   

Matthew 7:21-23      21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.  22  “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’  23  “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

Luke 13:25-35     25 “Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’     26  “Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’;   27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.’

An interesting and very appropriate article pops up on Albert Mohler’s website recently, regarding people who are totally atheistic but can preach the gospel like they were predestined to be saved.

The article is however uncanny, because I think Albert Mohler is speaking about himself.

Preachers Who Don’t Believe – The Scandal of Apostate Pastors

By Albert Mohler, Thursday – March 18, 2010

Are there clergy who don’t believe in God? That is the question posed by a new report that is certain to receive considerable attention — and rightly so. Few church members are likely to be disinterested in whether their pastor believes in God.

The study was conducted by the Center for Cognitive Studies at Tufts University, under the direction of Daniel C. Dennett and Linda LaScola. Dennett, of course, is one of the primary figures in the “New Atheism” — the newly aggressive and influential atheist movement that has gained a considerable hearing among the intellectual elites and the media.

Dennett is a cognitive scientist whose book, Breaking the Spell, suggests that belief in God must have at one point served an important evolutionary purpose, granting an evolutionary advantage to those who had some belief in an afterlife as compared to humans without such a belief. The reality of death, Dennett surmises, might well have been the precipitating factor. In order to make life meaningful in the face of death (and thus encourage reproduction), Dennett suggests that primitive humans invented the idea of God and the afterlife. Now, he argues, we have no more need of such primitive beliefs.

Interestingly, Dennett also proposes a new interpretation of theological liberalism. Noting that many modern people claim to be Christians while holding to virtually no specific theological content, Dennett suggests that their mode of faith should not be described as “belief,” but rather as “believing in belief.”

Given Dennett’s own atheistic agenda, we can rightly assume that he would be thrilled to see Christian ministers and believers abandon the faith. Indeed, the New Atheists have made this a stated aim. Thus, this new research report, “Preachers Who Are Not Believers,” should be read within that framework. Nevertheless, it must be read. This report demands the attention of anyone concerned with the integrity of the Christian church and the Christian faith.

Dennett and LaScola undertook their project with the goal of looking for unbelieving pastors and ministers who continue to serve their churches in “secret disbelief.” Their “small and self-selected” sample of ministers represents a microcosm of the theological collapse at the heart of many churches and denominations.

In their report, Dennett and LaScola present case studies of five unbelieving ministers, three from liberal denominations (“the liberals”) and two from conservative denominations (“the literals”).

Wes, a Methodist, lost his confidence in the Bible while attending a liberal Christian college and seminary. “I went to college thinking Adam and Eve were real people,” he explained. Now, he no longer believes that God exists. In his rendering, God is a word that “can be used very expressively in some of my more meditative modes” and “a kind of poetry that is written by human beings.”

His church members do not know that he is an atheist, but he explains that they are somewhat liberal themselves. His ministerial colleagues are even more liberal: “They’ve been de-mythologized, I’ll say that. They don’t believe Jesus rose from the dead literally. They don’t believe Jesus was born of a virgin. They don’t believe all those things that would cause a big stir in their churches.”

Rick, a campus minister for the United Church of Christ, perhaps the most liberal Protestant denomination, was an agnostic in college and seems to have lost all belief by the time he graduated from seminary. He chose ordination in the UCC because it required “no forced doctrine.” Even as he graduated from seminary, he knew, “I’m not going to make it in a conventional church.” He knew he could not go into a church and teach his own theological views, based on Paul Tillich and Rudolf Bultmann. He did not believe in the doctrinal content of the Christian faith from the beginning of his ministry. “I did not believe the traditional things even then.”

He does not believe “all this creedal stuff” about the incarnation of Christ or the need for salvation, but he remained in the ministry because, “These are my people, this is the context in which I work, these are the people that I know.” In the pulpit, his mode is to talk as if he does believe, because “as long as … you are talking about God and Jesus and the Bible, that’s what they want to hear. You’re just phrasing it in a way that makes sense to [them] … but language is ambiguous and can be heard in different ways.”

He doesn’t like to call himself an atheist, but: “If not believing in a supernatural, theistic god is what distinguishes an atheist, then I am one too.”

Darryl is a Presbyterian who sees himself as a “progressive-minded” pastor who wants to see his kind of non-doctrinal Christianity “given validity in some way.” He acknowledges that he is more a pantheist than a theist, and thinks that many of the more educated members of his church hold to the same liberal beliefs as his own. And those beliefs (or unbeliefs) are stated clearly: “I reject the virgin birth. I reject substitutionary atonement. I reject the divinity of Jesus. I reject heaven and hell in the traditional sense, and I am not alone.”

Amazingly, Darryl is candid about the fact that he remains in the ministry largely for financial reasons. It is how he provides for his family. If he openly espoused his beliefs, “I may be burning bridges in terms of my ability to earn a living this way.”

Adam ministers in the Church of Christ, a conservative denomination. After years in the ministry, he began to lose all theological confidence. After reading a series of books, he became convinced that the atheists have better arguments than believers. He has moved fully into an atheist mode, yet he continues to lead his church in worship. How? “Here’s how I’m handling my job on Sunday mornings: I see it as play acting. I see myself as taking on the role of a believer in a worship service, and performing.”

This “atheistic agnostic” stays in the ministry because he likes the people and, “I need the job still.” If he had an alternative source of income, he would take it. He feels hypocritical, but no longer believes that hypocrisy is wrong.

John is identified as a Southern Baptist minister who has primarily served as a worship leader. He was attracted to Christianity as a religion of love, but his pursuit of Christianity “brought me to the point of not believing in God.” As he explains, “I didn’t plan to become an atheist. I didn’t even want to become an atheist. It’s just I had no choice. If I’m being honest with myself.”

He is clearly not being honest with his church members. He rejects all belief in God and all Christian truth claims out of hand. He is a determined atheist. Once again, this unbelieving minister admits that he stays in the ministry because of finances. Amazingly, this minister even names his price: “If someone said, ‘Here’s $200,000,’ I’d be turning my notice in this week, saying, ‘A month from now is my last Sunday.’ Because then I can pay off everything.”

Early in their report, Dennett and LaScola point to a problem of definition. Many churches and denominations have adopted such fluid and doctrineless identities that determining who is a believer and who is an unbeliever has become difficult. Their statement deserves a close reading:

The ambiguity about who is a believer and who is an unbeliever follows inexorably from the pluralism that has been assiduously fostered by many religious leaders for a century and more: God is many different things to different people, and since we can’t know if one of these conceptions is the right one, we should honor them all. This counsel of tolerance creates a gentle fog that shrouds the question of belief in God in so much indeterminacy that if asked whether they believed in God, many people could sincerely say that they don’t know what they are being asked.

In other words, some theologians and denominations have embraced a theology so fluid and indeterminate that even an atheist cannot tell the believers and unbelievers apart.

“Preachers Who Are Not Believers” is a stunning and revealing report that lays bare a level of heresy, apostasy, and hypocrisy that staggers the mind. In 1739, Gilbert Tennett preached his famous sermon, “On the Danger of an Unconverted Ministry.” In that sermon, Tennett described unbelieving pastors as a curse upon the church. They prey upon the faith and the faithful. “These caterpillars labor to devour every green thing.”

If they will not remove themselves from the ministry, they must be removed. If they lack the integrity to resign their pulpits, the churches must muster the integrity to eject them. If they will not “out” themselves, it is the duty of faithful Christians to “out” them. The caterpillars are hard at work. Will it take a report from an atheist to awaken the church to the danger?

Daniel C. Dennett and Linda LaScola, “Preachers Who Are Not Believers,” Center for Cognitive Studies, Tufts University, March 15, 2010. Read PDF file here.

Source:   http://www.albertmohler.com/2010/03/18/clergy-who-dont-believe-the-scandal-of-apostate-pastors/



Dr. R Albert Mohler – Holds Leadership Positions in two UN-NGO’s

“Every year John Macarthur invites Dr. R. Albert Mohler to be a keynote speaker at the GCC Pastors’ Conference. Dr. Mohler is greatly respected and sometimes quoted by GCC pastors in their sermons. Since John Macarthur invites Dr. Mohler to speak at his church, most Christians would assume he’s a true Christian. Let me give some information regarding Dr. Mohler.

Dr. Mohler is the President of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary; he is a member of the Board of Directors of “Focus on the Family;” and he has served as the chairman of the Billy Graham Crusades. According to his website bio, Dr. Mohler hosts a national radio program, “The Albert Mohler Program,” and has been listed in a Time magazine cover story as one of its “50 for the Future” evangelicals. Widely sought as a columnist and commentator, Dr. Mohler has been quoted by the N.Y. Times, The Wall St. Journal, USA Today and the Washington Post, among others. He’s appeared on many national news programs such as the “Today Show”, “Dateline NBC” and “The News Hour with Jim Leher.” Clearly, he has a close relationship with the Satanic press.

Let’s now focus on another of Dr. Mohler’s associations; an association that has been left out of his website bio. Dr. Mohler is a Founding Fellow of the Research Institute (think tank) of The Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission (ERLC). The ERLC is the public policy arm of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC). Why is this information noteworthy? Because the ERLC is a non-governmental organization (NGO) listed with the UN’s Department of Public Information (DPI).

It can be seen that Dr. Mohler is a Founding Fellow of the ERLC by going to http://erlc.com/ and by clicking on “The Institute” at the top, then clicking on “Research Institute Fellows” near the bottom left of the page. One can see that the ERLC is a UN-NGO on the UNESCO website (www.un.org/ecosoc/). Click on “NGO Participation” and type in ERLC” ….  “


“…Dr. Mohler Signs The Manhattan Declaration: An ecumenical, dominionist/reconstructionist manifesto drafted by a member of the CFR who serves UNESCO. Click here to read more.”


Albert Mohler says above:  “If they will not remove themselves from the ministry, they must be removed. If they lack the integrity to resign their pulpits, the churches must muster the integrity to eject them. If they will not “out” themselves, it is the duty of faithful Christians to “out” them. The caterpillars are hard at work. Will it take a report from an atheist to awaken the church to the danger?”

  1. I have no idea why you had to go find a case study from atheists on this matter when the Bible is explicit on this very serious matter.  Jesus Christ HIMSELF tells us that false ‘christs’ entered the church from the very beginning.
  2. Are you going to ‘out’ yourself here?
  3. If not, then Albert Mohler, as a born again Christian I am asking you to pack up your things and leave the pulpit!

Psalm 6:8    Depart from me, all you who do iniquity,  For the LORD has heard the voice of my weeping.



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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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Thomas Lessing

Jesus had twelve disciples and one of them was a devil.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

His words do not favour Calvinism’s election and predestination in any which way.

In today’s postmodern scenario one may be a disciple and eleven of them devils. Most of them stand in our churches’ pulpits spewing their venom at random.

Thomas Lessing

In your “John MacArthur I pray this is NOT true!” post I recommended his Study Bible to someone. I’m not so sure that I would want to touch it after I read the following article: http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/macarthur/general.htm


Deborah, I have lived for a very long time under this smoke-screen of compromising and do not offend, and brotherly love and all those… I was bound by a system and at first did not even know it, it was so well disguised!

Outwardly I was this “church person, full of love, caring for everyone else”; out of church I hang out at parties and my companions was booze, drugs, men. Oh man, sometimes I was so proud of myself when I could catch “men of god” in my web!

It was not easy getting out of the system – but true to His Word, if the Son has set you free, you shall be free indeed!
and yes, when you are in such a position (I as there!), you have to REMOVE yourself, so you can take an in-depth stock of who you are and what the heck you are doing! (and those who are bound like this, KNOW, oh yes, they KNOW, they are in the wrong!!)

I did (for once doing the right thing! removing myself from the system, from the pedestal I’ve put myself on whilst falsely and foolishly believing that “God called me there”), then I met you and because you present The Bible as measuring ‘unit’, I surprisingly very easy grew out of the old stuff – thanks again Debs!

Burning Lamp

Many people are not what they seem or represent themselves to be. Too many so-called discernment ministries fall short of calling out those who should be called out because they don’t want to step on the wrong toes or are afraid to offend.

We can’t be looking for demons under every rock, but that is not necessary. They are lurking everywhere and usually in plain sight if we will just take off the blinders. Most are content to wear blinders and be satisfied with the status quo. That was certainly not the attitude of the early Church and those who were martyred for their faith.

Thank you Deborah for your courage and your resolve to speak the truth at all costs.

Burning Lamp

BTW, is that a bandaid over my mouth? :-)

Bob Johnson

Below is a link to the latest You Tube clip showing Macarthur affirming Billy Graham. Listen to Macarthur’s explanation at 2:00 where he explains the unbiblical nonsense of children who transition somehow from God’s protection to an age of accountability and the domain of darkness. Tell me if you find any of this biblical.

It may be of interest that Mohler’s fellow “founding fellow” of the ERLC (UN-NGO) who is also the ERLC’s president, Richard Land, is a CFR member.

Elmarie A

Deborah &Bob Johnson

Is there anyway someone can get a transcript of JMA Youtube clip in words? The video is very unclear on my side.I can only hear bits and Pieces.

Elmarie A

Can Christian Organizations Remain Christian in a ‘Tolerant’ Age?
By R. Albert Mohler, Jr.
Mon, Mar. 22 2010 09:17 PM EDT

Can a Christian organization remain Christian in a culture of postmodern “tolerance?” That question is the focus of a case soon to come before the U. S. Supreme Court.

Like most colleges and universities around the nation, the University of California Hastings College of Law recognizes certain student organizations within the life of the school. Until recently, the Christian Legal Society had been one of those groups. But, controversy arose about five years ago, when leaders of the CLS chapter at Hastings asserted the national policy of the organization, which states: “In view of the clear dictates of Scripture, unrepentant participation in and advocacy of a sexually immoral lifestyle is inconsistent with an affirmation of the Statement of Faith.”

READ MORE HERE: http://www.christianpost.com/article/20100322/can-christian-organizations-remain-christian-in-a-tolerant-age/index.html

Elmarie A

Deborah (Discerning the World)

Mine streams upto 39 seconds and then stops. Can’t go further. Bob would you be able to transcribe video.

Yes Mine did that couple of times!!

Elmarie A

Thomas Lessing


Cannot open page?? on your link. Thomas please check an re-post if possible. I also tried to google it???

Many thanks

Bob Johnson

Here is the transcription of the video as best as I can manage. Notice Macarthur’s affirmation of Graham and notice his unbiblical nonsense regarding children and accountability and domains of darkness.
The tape is of a Q&A session at an unknown church.

Question from woman to John Macarthur:

“I have a friend whose 16 year old daughter goes to Christian school. And they had discussion about who is saved and who isn’t saved. And knowing it was not her place to judge who’s saved and who isn’t saved, the 16 year old said, “But mom, nobody wants to talk about it.” They’re all Christians, but no it’s just they don’t want to talk about it doesn’t mean they’re not Christian. What would your response be?”

Macarthur’s reponse:

“Well yeah—it’s such a general statement. I think it pulls up an issue of Christian parents assuming because their kids are not rebellious: they go to church; they go to Christian school; that they have really regenerated. I guess I would say if they were really truly Christ’s, they would want to talk about it. And I think we got to assume folks listening—we all know sad stories of 2nd generation, 3rd generation, 4th generation Christian kids that grow cold to the things of Christ. You’ve go to realize that. Your first responsibility as parent is the salvation of your children. That’s your mission field. And you start with reprobates. They’re coming into your house—unconverted reprobates. The Devil’s in your house. They’re the children of the Devil. They are. They’re the children of the Devil. They’re the children of the one who was a killer and a liar from the beginning. He’s their father. Once they reach the age of accountability, then they transition from being under the protective care of God into the domain of darkness. And your task isn’t to make good hypocrites out of them. Your task is to unmask the reality of their hearts. People ask me how you do that. First of all, you pray continually for them. And secondly, you live that life before them. It was wonderful to hear Franklin [Graham] last night say that the same Billy Graham that everyone in the world knows is the same Billy Graham he knew in his house.”


If you go to http://www.thewatchmanwakes.com and go to the video section, then you should see this 3 minute Macarthur reply.

Thomas Lessing

John MacArthur: “Your first responsibility as parent is the salvation of your children. That’s your mission field. And you start with reprobates.”

MacArthur is actually saying that reprobate children are beyond any hope of ever being saved, unless his interpretation of the meaning of “reprobate” differs from that of John Calvin. On page 112 of the “Calvin Memorial Addresses” we read the following:

He asserts that all persons who are not the subjects of God’s saving grace will finally be lost, but he explicitly, and throughout, teaches that all the reprobate “procure” — (that is his own word) — “procure” their own destruction ; and they procure their destruction by their own personal and conscious acts of “impiety,” “wickedness,” and “rebellion.”

Now reprobate infants, though guilty of original sin and under condemnation, cannot, while they are infants, thus “procure” their own destruction by their personal acts of impiety, wickedness, and rebellion. They must, therefore, live to the years of moral responsibility in order to perpetrate the acts of impiety, wickedness and rebellion, which Calvin defines as the mode through which they procure their destruction.

While, therefore, Calvin teaches that there are reprobate infants, and that these will be finally lost, he nowhere teaches that they will be lost as infants, and wvhile they are infants; but, on the contrary, he declares that all the reprobate “procure” their own destruction by
personal acts of impiety, wickedness and rebellion. Consequently, his own reasoning compels him to hold (to be consistent with himself), that no reprobate child can die in its infancy ; but all such must live to the age of moral accountability, and translate original sin into actual sin.”

Wow, what great wisdom! What Calvin actually said, was that God in His unfathomable mercy will never allow a reprobate infant to die in infancy but allows it to grow to an age of accountability so that they may have a fair chance to “procure their own destruction.” Well now, that surely is a great comfort for parents who have reprobate infants. At least they know that their little reprobate kiddies won’t die in infancy.

The million dollar question is: How can parents be held responsible for the salvation of their reprobate toddlers when they have no hope of ever being saved because God in his unfathomable mercy has decided to allow the reprobate children to grow to an age of accountability at which time they will be able to procure their own destruction?

Calvinism is a vile and merciless doctrine.

John MacArthur says that your little reprobate infants are all children of the devil. Now, that’s really nice of him because next time he takes one of his own newly born grandchildren in his un-reprobated” arms, he may say with passionate love: “You little child of the devil. Thank God, you are not going to die in infancy but by the grace of God you are going to grow to an age of accountability so that you may procure your own destruction.”

What did Jesus say?

Mt 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

The word for “children” used here is “paidion” and refers to an infant, a recently born child. Are little “paidions” going to inherit God’s Kingdom as children of the devil?

Calvinism is a vile and merciless doctrine.

Thomas Lessing

John MacArthur says that your little reprobate infants are all children of the devil. Now, that’s really nice of him because next time he takes one of his own newly born grandchildren in his un-reprobated” arms, he may say with passionate love: “You little child of the devil. Thank God, you are not going to die in infancy but by the grace of God you are going to grow to an age of accountability so that you may procure your own destruction.”

Oh! I’m so sorry. I should have known that all the children and grandchildren of the elect are automatically elected by God for heaven.

Thomas Lessing

Hi Elmarie,

I cannot understand why the link doesn’t work with you. I have no problem opening it. Try clicking on the cache.

Thomas Lessing

Mt 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Please take careful note that Jesus did not say “the Kingdom of God belongs to them.” He said “the Kingdom of God belongs to such as these.” In other words, He specified a particular age – “paidion” or little babes in arms.

Thomas Lessing

I grieve when I read about well-known pastors who have missed the bus (or is the mark?). Really, I grieve because it is not the will of God that any of them should apostasize from the faith. Jesus shed his blood for each and everyone of them and it is sad to see and hear how they have denied the Lord. It is very sad.

2Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

One of the most horrendous ways of denying the Lord is to associate with people who are God’s enemies and are bent on the destruction of biblical Christianity.


Bob Johnson, thanks for the transcript!


ok. I asked a question on another post. Then was referred here by a friend and this article pretty much answers the previous question. It was: What if the Chuck Missler’s and others are infiltrated into the churches to build a data base to hand over to AC. So many R now in deep w/CFR UNESCO, etc. that this question seems elementary. So. We know they are on to us. They’re probably watching this site. I don’t care really. I’m not afraid. But I think the coming persecution is much closer than we know. Especially as it seems the 5 sleeping Virgins are waking up again, trimming their lamps, and filling their flasks. (that’s code for only real Christians will get)

[EDITED: Moved your previous question right over here:

“I just had a really disturbing thought. What if, the Chuck Missler’s and others who have entered into the Churches are gathering a Data Base of ppl to whom they will hand over to AC once AC is clearly identified? I mean this guy has distribution lists,names,addresses,credit card info, tons of info on ppl all over the nation where he’s spoken at Calvary Chapels. We saw Chino Hills run into a problem when their treasurer was found ’stealing’ a false conversion from Islam…there’s too much 4 a comment-but Just a wonder, what if..scenario. Am I off?”]


amen d! I ecco the last paragraph!

do you know you’ve got a way with words? you could have written several books by now, making looooots of goooood money! but you chose to warn… keep standing then!


Everywhere I look around, there is deception. My eyes are wide open while prophecy is being fulfilled. Even as I am thanking God for his indwelling spirit of discernment…my heart is soo heavy for my professing christians friends that are asleep while switching to another wind of doctrine. I have been crying non-stop this week because of the vileness of this doctrine.
Evil is on the increase and it’s moving with velocity. If you are not rooted and grounded in the word of GOD, you WILL be carried away by the resurgence of, Or the emerging new wind of doctrines that’s waiting in the wings.


Just checking back on this article, because, I was on Twitter and a lovely discerning woman posted a site “Solid Bible Teaching” so I clicked on it…and weird! It does look awesome. I went to an article posted on the Church’s blog entitled,”How to pray for the president.” And I tell you I struggle with that so I clicked on to read…wow, the pastor is quoting guess who: Albert Mohler and John Piper Here’s the link:
Now. It’s obviously teaching submission to the most diabolical Anti-Christian, Anti-American, Anti-Life, Anti-Israel president we’ve ever had and it’s sad that well meaning Christ Loving Christians are truly afraid of their government. We have no need to shrink back! I know this govt. is wicked and Satanic, it’s members worship Atheists (Sal Alinsky et al.) and we are on a mad dash towards End times prophesies! Whoa! And to add one more thing, another friend sent me a link RE: health care. in the bill HR 3200 the Sec. of Human Services will implant chips into us! yeah…in 36 months from now. Nice huh. Looking up! Thanks Deborah 4 this site. U Rock.


[EDITED by DTW: RThorne; I moved this to the NEWS SECTION:

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