Turn2God at the Union Buildings was…

Turn2God at the Union Buildings was…A Call to a Christian type of Shaira law

Line up:
Angus Buchan * Keke * Soweto Gospel Choir * Graham Power * Elza Meyer * Zane Maes * Retief Burger * Jackson Xhosa * Lionel Peterson * Bennie Mostert * Joe Niemand * Louis Brittz * Rhema South Worship Team *  Marlon Van * Nedine Blom * Soekie and the Radikids, etc.

It was your typical Dominionist fashioned, Apostolic and Prophetic, stake your patch of kingdom earth before it’s too late, unbiblical nonsense.

Elza Meyer had a vision from God one morning to host Turn2God.

They expected 40,000 people to show up and pay +/- R100 for seats.  (These things are no longer for free).   But instead her god only managed to get 15,000 paying people to show up, or less.

The rest of the day there was this echo from the stage where the speakers constantly reminded us how terrible it was that people actually took their invitation to sit on the grass for free.

There also seemed to be terrible feedback from the speakers; mumbles and grumbles that said “if no one came….they would have carried on worshipping God all by themselves.”   Their constant hinting at the lack of turnout and paying attendees was very sad.   Bennie Mostert told the crowd much later during the day, during a ‘Give us Money’ spree that they (the pastors) were very very poor, underpaid and needed money.

Elza says of the musicians;  Soweto Gospel Choir, a full orchestra along with Retief Burger, Joe Niemand and Louis Brittz who are singing praise and worship tunes, that their music will “usher us into the Holy of Holies“.

Flag bearers came walking toward the stage from the North, the South, the East and the West carrying flags from each country of the world where Dominionist missionaries operate.  These flags were placed in place holders at the front of the stage.  The entire process symbolised countries coming together in UNITY to ask God for mercy.

Before the Turn2God gathering took place there were little spiritual warriors that had strategically moved from each province, going through towns, praying over them, binding them using territorial spiritual warfare, by way of collecting SOIL from each town they stopped at.  This symbolised their ‘capturing’ of that land and ‘reclaiming’ it for God.

Elza Meyer tells us that back in 1999 there was a prophecy about a silver trumpet that would be blown in South Africa.  “The blowing of the silver trumpet will bring salvation to this nation” we were told.  Well to our amazement a guy steps out on stage and starts blowing a silver trumpet.  Wow,  a prophecy fulfilled right in front of our eyes.  How many people fell for that one?

Later a guy comes out (not sure if it was the same guy that blew the silver trumpet) and he blows a gold trumpet.  I have no idea why!   But I am guessing we will possibly find out at the next show that on the 6th March 2010 a gold trumpet was blown and that signified the fulfilment of a prophecy of the silver trumpet being blown.  Errr….

Elza speaks about ‘cutting covenant’ with God and that it was the most fearful day of her life.  I am not sure why.  Because being born again is the most joyful day of ones life.  But if we look at the god she serves (based on false teaching) it becomes horribly clear as to why she is so scared.  Another reason why she had to continuously let us know how fearful this ‘cutting of the covenant’ was (which, by the way is totally unbiblical), was to let us know that she can be trusted, she would never lie and this covenant has her dangling from a thread – any wrong move from her would seriously damage her covenant with God.

Linda Gobodo from Vuka Africa comes on stage and tell us how ‘they’ went around and BROKE UNGODLY ALTARS across the different provinces of South Africa and then stopped in Pretoria and created a NEW ALTAR TO GOD.  Linda gives a message to Elza and says, “God is going to restore Africa, Believe it!”

Up comes Bennie Mostert a pastor at the NGK Moreletapark and runs the prayer ministry Jericho Walls.  He speak about corruption in this country and how bad it is and that South Africa needs to turn back to God.  Just as the government has a bad rep for stealing money, the church has a bad reputation for stealing money too and this needs to stop, he says.

He then mentions Malachi 4 and says that if we don’t tithe we bring a curse on this country.   How’s that for a  solution to sin?   These people speak about repentance of sin, but it’s only said for ‘show’.   Tithing to the church, giving your money away has replace repentance.  So based on what Bennie said,  the model should look something like this:


  • Government is corrupt
    • Church is corrupt
      • Church does not tithe – they rob God
        • God curses land
  • Church tithes
    • God is no longer being robed of his Old Testament LAW of tithes
      • Church becomes uncorrupt
        • Government becomes uncorrupt
  • God blesses land

Bennie speaks about Love and Grace.  He said that if you point fingers at others you don’t have grace. How do you overcome this finger pointing problem?  Well, you pray many times a day not to point fingers he says.  Bennie then points fingers at the people of South Africa and at the Union Building and says “every sin we can point out in government we can point out in the church”.  Sin is not paying your tithes he tries to persuade us again.

The music kicks in and one of the main musician’ Louis Brittz says, “There is a special anointing when you sing African music to the Lord.”

Graham Power steps up to the plate and tells us how Peter Pollock (who publishes ‘Prepare the Way’ magazine) led him to pray the sinner’s prayer with him one morning at a breakfast meeting.  18 months later Graham had 3 visions between 4am and 6am in the morning.

Vision 1

God told him to hire Newlands for the Global Day of Prayer where all churches of all denominations will come together, hold hands and pray and the prayer movement will roll across the world.  This prayer meeting took place and approximately 320 million people around the world prayed in one massive ecumenical prayer day.

Vision 2

He awakes one morning with electricity running through his body, convulsing like nuts, and God shows him a vision of 3 waves:

  1. 1st wave:  The prayer wave
  2. 2nd wave:  The ethics, values and clean living wave
  3. 3rd wave:  The revival, transformation of South Africa and Africa wave

Graham Power never went on to mention his 3rd vision.  Or was it this one:

In his talk Graham again reviewed the vision that he had of transforming South Africa, Africa and eventually the whole world. He devoted much attention to an experience that he had in February 2002 when he attended a prayer breakfast for men in Stellenbosch. The speaker was a 28-year old Coloured man of Khoi descent. He was a former gangster whose whole body is tattooed. The topic that morning was “The Holy Spirit.” Afterwards, the speaker invited the men to come forward and receive the Holy Spirit.  One of them ran away but most remained behind to receive the “blessing” of being slain in the Spirit.

Graham said that when he was touched on his shoulder he fell down but rose again after a short while. He fell down two more times. The third time he lay on the ground for 1½ hours. He felt an electric-like current flowing through his body while having “an amazing experience.” He also heard a voice speaking to him, saying, “I am the spine,” (six times), “I am the head of the spine” (six times), “I am the king” (six times) and “I am the king of kings” (six times).

Immediately afterwards, Graham had an experience outside his body. He saw himself lying on the floor on his back with his arms stretched out in the form of a cross. He then saw Africa forming around his body with his feet in Cape Town and his head in Egypt. His hands pointed toward East and West Africa. He felt a strange sensation of pain rising from his feet and legs through his spine to his shoulders and arms. He interpreted this as a revival and transformation movement that will spread from South Africa to central Africa, and eventually to the whole of Africa. He also saw his arms becoming longer and reaching around the globe. This indicated that the movement that has started in South Africa would ultimately encompass the whole world.   PLEASE SEE HERE FOR FULL ARTICLE  —  Graham Power & Angus Buchan – The Transformation of Africa

The 3rd Wave is what the New Apostolic Reformation with C. Peter Wagner in the USA have been speaking about for a few years now.  And I always wondered what on earth they were talking about.  It was not The 3rd Wave, but 3 waves.

In between all this somewhere Turn2God uses our rugby players to help gain support for their One World Religious cause.  I can’t remember who they were, but they were helping some guy promote ‘Turn2God’ rugby and soccer balls that you can guy and give to family and friends that will somehow lead them to God.  (I think at this point I was trying to find food to eat – so I was not paying to much attention).

Graham Power introduces us to Steve Johnson who pops onto the stage and speaks about an initiative called Unashamedly Ethical who’s logo is the shape of a little rainbow. He challenges the people into signing a pledge that states they are unashamedly Christian by submitting themselves to a new set of 10 commandments. You will then be governed by a Christian Ombudsman (the Christian version of Muslim Shira law).  Graham Power says it only takes 3 to 4% of the countries population to make a huge impact.

Bennie Mostert comes back on and then in typical contradictory fashion says that Chrisitians never challenge each other.  But Steve Johnson challenged the people to sign the form.  He even asked the crowd to stand if they are willing to sign.  Of course 99% stood, what ever are they to do? Keep sitting?  They are all Christians after all.

Bennie Mostert held a ‘Give us Money’ campaign.  He shared that they needed R1.1 million to cover their costs.  But does not mention what costs they need to cover.  A bit of transparency would have been nice.

‘Who will give us R25,000?’ he said.  ‘Please put your hand up.  That’s R25,000.  Thank you sir, in the back.  Who can give us R25,000?  Thank you mam.  Thank you.  Please just stand up. Thank you over there….  Ok who can give us R10,000…. *hands go up*, who can gives us R5000…. *more hands go up*, who can give us R1000?  *even more hands go up*.  Who can spare just R500!” he says.   By now 70% of the 15,000 crowd are standing.

If you don’t have cash with you, don’t worry, there are ATM’s available as mentioned earlier on in the day.

Soekie (Sandra) Schoeman led a group of little kids onto the stage; they had been practising their ‘onward little Christians soldiers’ song for ages now and wanted to perform it to the crowd.

These children are none the wiser as to the false Christian movement they have been forced into.  They really do believe in Jesus.  Soekie and her Joel’s Army band of brothers on that other hand know EXACTLY what they are following and it’s not the Jesus Christ as mentioned in the Bible.  They are trying to create a ‘New Breed’ of Christian and are using your children to do it.  These children came from orphanages, they are well looked after I am sure, but are being led into something they know nothing about.

After this, a lot of talk went into how ‘Children are the future’ and that children are going to play a BIG part in the end time Latter Rain Manifest Sons of God harvest.

All politicians are called onto the stage.  You would expect the likes of Julius Dilemma to show up (after all he needs the most prayer).  But nope, surprise;  Democratic Alliance leader Helen Zille shows up and Freedom Front Plus leader Pieter Mulder.  Elza makes a very quick apology to the crowd; there were supposed to be more politicians appearing on stage, but they did not show up.

Angus, Jackson Xhoza, Graham, Elza, Bennie and the some others start praying over Helen Zulle. It was a huge display of interfaith in action.

Zille told Rapport she shared the crowd’s belief in the importance of love. Mulder said the Christian faith had to be lived voluntarily and not enforced by law, as some speakers at the event called for.     —

Thank you Pieter Milder for having 2 open eyes.  I hope.

Then Angus Buchan finally comes onto the stage.  My potatoe chips are now really crispy after having to sit in the sun all day long. So what does Angus have to say to us?  Nothing.  It’s the same mumbo jumbo as before.   I must say that he definitely has a fixation with clouds.  As he knelt down to pray he pointed to a cloud gently flying by, being pushed by a normal breeze, that naturally moved in front of the sun for all of 10 seconds.  He declared that ‘sign’ as the presence of God!  Incredible.  Then a gentle cool breeze blew (like it did throughout the day), and he likened that to the Holy Spirit moving over the people.  Oh boy.

Anyhow, to cut a big potatoe really smaller – Angus, near the end of his performance shouts out at the top of his voice, ‘The time is NOW, for the MANIFESTATIONS OF THE SONS OF GOD!!!”

So when the event is finally nearing its end the Apostles and Prophets have gotta do it in style.  A Beautiful white horse is led between the crowd (down the isles) from the front of the stage toward the Union Buildings at the back.  The flag bearers pick up their flags again and follow the horse out of the crowd and move in their designated compass directions as before.

We were told by Elza that if you look really closely you will see Jesus riding the white horse.  No really. That’s what she said!  He is there, you just can’t see him.


I had to do some serious ducking and diving to get these ‘ACTION’ photos.

Elza Meyer, Helen Zulle and Bennie Mostert (Left to right)

Angus Buchan praying over Helen Zulle and for all politicians

Graham Power and Steve Johnson from Unashamedly Ethical (Right to Left)

Angus Buchan declaring “The time is NOW for the MANIFESTATION of the SONS OF GOD”

Little Christian Soldiers – Children recruited for Joel’s Army

Flag bearers walking North, South, East and West (Spiritual Warfare)

Union Building with Flag bearers at North point

Imaginary Jesus sitting on the white horse – If you look closely you won’t see Him

Close up of White Horse and you still can’t see Jesus

Emergent/Ecumenical Minister ‘Deon Forster’ enjoying the Turn2God Praise and Worship Music

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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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Elmarie A

Deborah (Discerning the World)

I thought so. lol lol

I’m just wondering with what will they come up next.oh for goodness sake!!!!

Burning Lamp

Just when one thinks there can’t possibly be something more weird and bizarre conjured up by the deluded, one more thing comes down the pike that trumps the last. At times it is surreal – like out of the Twilight Zone or soon I will wake out of this nightmare. Its like an Invasion of the Soul Snatchers. Maranatha! Even so come Lord Jesus!!!


3D: Dieper-Delf-Diens.
Translation: Deeper-Mine-Service?

It looks like Warrenish-post-modern-contemplative hook to catch the older folks:

Delf dieper in die Woord by die 3D-aanddiens

Deur Wanda Bam

Gedurende Augustus 2009 is daar afgeskop met ‘n 3D-diens (Dieper-Delf-Diens) in die Rubenstein ouditorium. Waar die aanddienste voorheen gesien is as die eredienste waarheen die garde vlug wat die grootte van die Woodlands ouditorium vreemd vind of wat ’n rustiger aanddiens verkies bo die jeugdiens Die waarheid is dat daar egter klein verstellings aan die M@9-erediens (oggenddiens) gemaak is om die iService (jeugdiens om 17:30) en die oggenddiens so bietjie nader aan mekaar te bring. Vir jare het die jeug en die volwasse dienste verder uitmekaar beweeg en het ons besef dat die kerk onbewustelik gesinne uitmekaar “spesialiseer”. Die feit is, ons het nodig gehad om nuut te dink oor kerkwees.

M@9 het ’n elektriese kitaar bygekry en die Engels/Afrikaanse verhouding van die liedere is hersien na ’n 30% Engelse repertoir teenoor ’n vroeëre tussen 5 en 10% Engelse kontingent. Die ouer liedere word eenvouding meer modern en eietyds verwerk, maar bly in essensie dieselfde. Ook moes die prediking, beligting en afkondigings belyn word tot ’n eietydse erediensstyl. Gemotiveerd, energiek, begeesterd is ‘n paar van die definisies van hierdie diens se karakter.

Die 3D-diens wat om 17:30 in die mini-ouditorium in die nuwe gebou plaasvind is ’n aanddiens met ’n dieper-delf-karakter. Predikers word aangemoedig om werklik dieper te delf in die Woord, navorsing te doen, leersaam, intelektueel, diep en simplisties te preek. Die gehoor kan hieraan deelneem. Die gemeente kan vrae vra en insette lewer. Die leraar fasiliteer dan die sessie vanuit die gedeelte wat pas behandel is. Daar is ook ’n meditatiewe moment aan die einde van die prediking waar mense net kan stil word voor God en die boodskap kan integreer. Die musiek, lof en aanbidding is ook eenvoudiger met minder instrumente. Die gedagte is ‘n stylvolle, nadenkende, dieper-delf-geleentheid waarin mense juis aangemoedig word om self na te dink, die preek-woord vir hulself ’n leef-woord te maak.

Voor die aanvang van die diens word daar voor die mini-ouditorium op die boonste vlak koffie en tee bedien en word dit sommer ook ‘n lekker kuiergeleentheid terwyl die klavier saggies speel en ‘n gevoel van knus warmte skep. Ons wil later ook die diens uitbou na ‘n gemaklike om-die-tafel gesprek waar dieper-delf-kwessies deurgetrap word! Kom drink saam met ons koffie en delf diéper!


Emergent/Ecumenical Minister ‘Deon Forster’ enjoying the Turn2God Praise and Worship Music

The Methodists strike back:[
Edited [Block brackets are my comments. Amanda]

What makes a blog like ‘Discerning the World’ so popular? It would seem to have such a narrow focus that one would expect it to have limited appeal – but I don’t really know what the ‘person in the pew’ is thinking. The thing that I don’t enjoy about the blog is the spirit of mockery that I find there. [She has no problem with the spirit of apostacy in Brian McLaren’s books apparently.]
As a preacher I have learnt to be very careful about mocking the things with which I disagree. It is is a very easy way of scoring cheap ‘points’. It is quite easy to ridicule something and to get people to laugh and then they are somehow convinced that you are right and that those others are wrong. [Sola laughter is our guide to truth here after all.] But they are cheap points – because we are wired deep down to side with the strong – and let’s face it, those who are being laughed at are the weak. [Absolute flatout lie. Angus Buchan = Mighty Men. Elza Meyer = Hadassa = special priviledge with the King] It is like the school playground where the class wimp has fallen in the mud and the school surrounds him and laughs and jeers. Or perhaps just watches. We know that we ought to go into the centre of the crowd and support him – but if our mockery is validated (we are told that this is appropriate behaviour) then we love to stand in the crowd and jeer. We feel strong, because we are not the one who is in the mud. We are part of the mocking crowd. We belong. [Emergent projection. They are all about taking over the world, mocking Chriatianity and belonging.]
It is also cheap because we can usually find something to ridicule about everyone and their beliefs. We are not all 100% consistent and logical. But one or two silly spots doesn’t necessarily invalidate us or our beliefs. [Has she even read Dion Forster’s An uncommon spiritual path – the quest to find Jesus beyond
conventional Christianity
?] Though, I must confess, that there are Christians who do seem to major in silly points and the ridiculous and these shouldn’t be ignored either.

And so she hasn’t. She has got us covered. Now I would love to see her get into the mud and help defend Angus Buchan, Dion Forster and Elza Meyer.

Mark Penrith stands with her:

Although when I read the articles and comments I agree with much of the bent regarding Scripture (I like Deborah am a Dispensational, Conservative, Fundementalist) I to fail to see the Love component.

There again you and I (and Dion and David and Gus and Angus and John and…) disagree regarding matters of faith and yet the discussion is in Love and for edification.

God’s less interested in web traffic than you might think.

Mark fails ‘to see the love component’. The Bible says:

Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. (1 John 2:9)


And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
(Matthew 22:39)

So if we lack the ‘love component’, we cannot be Christians, can we? We are on our way to hell. Other than ‘love your neighbour’ they have nothing to offer us. Brian McLaren even boldly stated that we worship an idol.

The visible church is sharply divided between those who would kiss the wolf, lest he be angry and those who will not ‘edify’ those who lead sheep into apostacy.

Mark also failed to notice the 15 000 potential recruits for Joel’s Army and I wonder if the doctrine of the Manifest Sons of God counts as one of the ‘matters of faith that he and Angus disagree about, but what they can discuss ‘in Love and for edification’.

Jenny Hillebrand, Jesus Christ is the One who is mocked by your beloved emergent New Age religion. Repent and receive forgiveness of sins, including your lack of love, in His Name.


Short Bible study
2Pe 2:1 But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their lascivious doings; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And in covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you . . .

Lets look at verse one
We can learn from this verse that you will be able to “discern” false teachers by their “destructive” teachings (heresies) which in this case is the dominion-ism taught by Angus, Elza, Graham, …etc.
Verse one also states that “they” will deny their master.
Well, these prophets/teachers say that they don’t need Jesus to bring His kingdom… NO, THEY will usher in their kingdom, their way, and then rule their kingdom their way !

Verse 2 states
“many shall follow their lascivious doings”
The word lascivous in Greek is -apoleia- and means: fatally destructive heresies.
The teachings of these people will lead to hell.

and then verse 2 continues:
“by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of”
These people and their followers don’t like the Truth and they will “attack” the people who warns people, follow and proclaim the truth. Have we not seen this ?

Verse 3 states:
“And in covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you”

Hey ! How many of you forked out money for these people because they spoke “nice words” or maybe they “threatened” you or made you feel guilty ?
Yep, for these people you have become milk producing cows that will produce milk when they pull your . . . uuuhm, let me rephrase that…
They know what buttons to press to get you to produce milk money for them…

Fellow believers, we are truly a people being persecuted. Apart from being persecuted by fellow so-called “believers”, the unbelievers are also making fun of Christianity.
Below is just another example of how Christianity is being ridiculed by others because of what so-called “Christians” do…

This was sent by a non-religious person to a church website.
I saw a bumper sticker on another car in traffic this morning, it said “Durban and the New Millennium belong to Jesus” on it. All I could think was that if that’s true, Jesus is doing an even worse job than the South African government because things are shit.
I don’t get why people feel the need to advertise their religion (beyond obvious recruiting) using things like bumper stickers and badges. It just doesn’t make sense to me, cause it doesn’t work.

Hey, this man knows more about the truth than the False teachers and prophets of this blog ! ;-)


Okay, team. It is official. We have been written off as ‘cranks’. That’s it. Judge Thomas Scarborough, a minister of an urban, cosmopolitan Church in Cape Town delivered the verdict. None of that Priesthood of Believers apply to us. So don’t think we can sneak into the renewing church under the guise of cultural diversity. They only reach out to ’embrace every class, every culture, every historical and social situation’. Cranks, on the other hand, they won’t touch with a ten-foot pole.

Rev. Scarborough lists and links to In Via as a local church. Ron Martoia recently spent some time there, as well as at Elza Meyer’s church, Moreletapark. Here Dr. Ron Martoia and Dr. Dion Forster have a pleasant chitchat. Dr. Ron: “If we can break the textual addiction we have the relegates formation to bible study we are going to be dead in the water in the postmodern world”. Dr. Dion: “I agree wholeheartedly. I too love reading the scriptures, but always as a means towards a deeper connection with God and a more informed and sincere connection with others”. Do go read it in context yourself. Don’t expect a crank to do your work for you.

So, Team Crank, I hope nobody is too disappointed not to be accepted in the visible church where Ron Martoia, Rob Bell, Brian McLaren and Stephan Joubert worship their gods.

And Deborah, have you ever considered that your lack of ‘critical openness’ is very discouraging to a man like Rev. Scarborough as well as the mighty henchmen who threatened your life?


Listen, team. Over the last couple of weeks we have been condemned at least three times and, because we mock, we have no credibility according to Jenny Hillebrand.
1. PPP called us Pharisees. The Bible says:

You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? (Matthew 23:33)

2. Mark Penrith says we do not love. The Bible says:

Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. (1 John 2:9)

3. Steve Hayes said we bear all thistles. The Bible says:

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. (Matthew 7:15-20)

This is our condemnation. We are outside the visible church. And I agree wholeheartedly with them.

The visible church lives by their gospel of ‘you shall love your neighbour’. This means everybody has the right to their own truth. The only time that you are wrong is when you insist on absolute truth. They can easily accept Brian McLaren, Nic Paton, Cobus van Wyngaard, Rob Bell, Rick Warren, Joyce Meyers, Ron Martoia, Dion Forster, Angus Buchan and Stephan Joubert, but not us. We are the untouchables, the outsiders. I rejoice in that.

Let me explain. Christianity is not ‘love your neighbour’. That is a lie from the pit of hell! Jesus Christ said:

“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22:37-40)

This is Law. This is not good news. It is very bad news indeed. The penalty for breaking God’s Law, even once, is eternal damnation. Good deeds do not cover your evil deeds. The Bible says about us:

as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:10-18)

If you think you have kept the ‘you shall’ and the ‘you shall not’ thundered from Mount Sinai today, then you are lying to yourself. God will hold you accountable for every single thought, word and deed. It does not matter how many good deeds you pile up by saying nice things to your neighbour. You are going to hell. The Law cannot save you. It is to show you your guilt and your desperate need for a saviour:

Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:19-20)

Christianity is about the Good News that Jesus Christ bore our punishment on the cross and He gives us His perfect righteousness. It is done. It is finished. It is outside of us. We cannot save ourselves, but we have the perfect Saviour who died for us.

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it– the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26)

Yes, we are Pharisees when we self-righteously parade our good deeds in front of God. He sees them as filthy rags anyway! Yes, we do not love our neighbour as ourselves, because we do not love God with all our heart. If we did, we would not sin in thought, word or deed. And we do bear thistles. Lots of it.

Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. (Romans 7:24-25)

We have a Lord and Saviour who died for us, not because we are good or worthy, but because we are not.

Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
(Romans 3:27-28)

We have faith in Jesus Christ, because He alone is worthy. He is the King of kings and Lord of lords. He is not Nic Paton’s trickster or Stephan Joubert’s Sage from heaven.

Jenny Hillebrand is dead wrong when she says:

We feel strong, because we are not the one who is in the mud. We are part of the mocking crowd. We belong.

We are the ones who do not belong, who do not have fellowship. Her article and every single comment testify to that fact. We are out. We have fled the transitioning of churches [Dan Southerland: church is not for you, but for the um, seeker] and the revivals of repentance without forgiveness and the deconstruction of Christianity. And we laugh at empty horses. And we laugh at emergents who interpret salt to mean Christians should be the roast for the world. And we laugh at those who find our filthy rags does not compare to theirs. And I laugh at Brian McLaren who pretends to listen to the objections to his book and then tells the church to do as he says anyways. And I laugh at those who think they can bring us under the yoke of works and call it ‘good news’. And we cry for all the opportunities lost to tell sinners the Gospel of Jesus Christ who died for them for the forgiveness of their sins.

And check your numbers, Jenny. How many in our pitiful ‘congregation’ and how many in yours and Stephan’s and Cobus’ and Elza’s and Dion’s and Mark’s and Thomas’ and Rob’s and Angus’ and Joyce’s and Rick’s? Why bother with this little zoo, which have no credibility?

Thomas wonders if this site will endure. Probably not. It has been deleted once before because of the abuse and threats from WITHIN the church. But I can tell you one thing. No matter how many false teachers you embrace and affirm and edify, Jesus Christ is still building His church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Now, Jenny, if ‘one or two silly spots doesn’t necessarily invalidate us or our beliefs’ [DTW excepted], how many silly spots does it take for one to go to hell and how do you determine the answer?

Mark Penrith

Hi Amanda,

Yes, my point exactely.


Hi Mark

That numbers are meaningless? Or irrelevant is just that?

Elmarie A


Well said thank you!!

This link is a very Biblical sermon done on Signs and Wonders by pastor Dries van As. Tekens en Wonders. I have to mention it is in Afrikaans and If at all possible good to listen to. I just again confirms we are indeed way far into the falling away and not a revival as told by these false teachers.



There, there. Now, stop it. We already have slobber on the floor. And we do not want to mess up the fur, wool and feathers around here, now do we?


And scales! I forgot about the scales. Sorry, Jen.

Elmarie A

<<<Now, stop it. We already have slobber on the floor. And we do not want to mess up the fur, wool and feathers around here, now do we?<<<

Who's slobber is that: I hope not Olaks, he will have to cough up this time, he he lol ha ha I will leave it at that.

<<There, there<<
so toughtfull of you, en tog te oulik. You need to teach me some of that please one day. If I could I would do the There, there one on some scales had a perfect one in mind. he he lol

Elmarie A

A article that clearly states :

True and Deceived Followers of Jesus
Prof. Johan Malan, Middelburg (August 2008)

Scripture quotations are from the NKJV unless otherwise stated.

There are many views about Jesus among the millions of His followers. These diverging opinions form the basis of a wide range of relationships with Him. Included among those who regard themselves as Christians, is a large group of deceived ‘believers’ who are convinced that they follow and serve Jesus. He, however, does not recognise or accept them as His own (Matt. 15:8-9). Among His true followers all is not well either, as many of them only have a limited knowledge of Jesus and will one day be ashamed before Him because of their unfaithfulness and half-hearted dedication – they will “scarcely” be saved (1 Pet. 4:18). It is of the utmost importance to know exactly where each of us stands with the Son of God since there will be no opportunity to correct poor or non-existing relationships after the time of grace has ended.

From a spiritual perspective the following groups of people who all regard themselves as Christians may be distinguished:

Please read further here :http://www.bibleguidance.co.za/Engarticles/Groups.htm

I just had to share this with you all.


Thank you, Elmarie.

Back at Jenny’s, Thomas Scarborough deleted his comments. He said:

Incidentally Jenny, the reason for removing my posts here is that responses suggested that they may fall prey to mistaken interpretations. In that case, it would seem to make eminent sense to take them down.

In one of his comments he said that calling us cranks was intended as humour.


Team, it is not so early on a Monday morning and I have been volunteered to mop the floor. So while I am busy over there, I leave this sticky mess over here for you to puzzle over. Just tell me in short sentences what it means in light of her article and the previous comments. I don’t get it. Jenny Hillebrand said:

Well, this could be a very interesting discussion. I wonder if we don’t see in it (amongst more serious things) a battle of worldviews:

Pre modern – what I believe is true, because what I have been taught is true and I won’t question it. Modern – let’s try to understand, let’s look around and ask questions, does this make sense in light of both faith and logic. Postmodern – I will interpret what I read in a way that makes sense to me – you may not challenge my interpretation based on the intention of the author. Logic and study may well be irrelevant.

Of course, there’s much more to those worldviews and I’ve been a bit ‘black and white’, but it is interesting.

Thanks for all comments.

She does not mention a Biblical worldview. She does not mention the Bible fullstop. I am sooooo confused. Help!

Elmarie A


Do you think he watched the movie Crank. Now that was just a very funny movie as I can recall. ha ha lol lol

Well done on that post.



The Methodists strike back Part 2. With compliments from Jenny’s:

Anonymous said…

Ineteresting is a trace that is being done on Discerning the world, but traces take time. he/she/they are on an AFricNIC server , WebAfrica subscribers, located in JHB. Afrikaans language, connected with Win98. No name/s yet .

Nice going, Jenny. Or does my worldview obscure the humour?

Elmarie A


in conjunction with GLOBAL DAY OF PRAYER
with special guests – Michael W. Smith & Michael Coleman
Cape Town Convention Centre 19th – 21st May 2010

May be they got the title of this conference here?? What da ya think.

Mediation and other methods are a very quick way to be introduced to a new world view and it will certainly not be a Christian one. In fact one new age practice leads to another as one pursues spiritual growth by these methods. That is my personal experience, you see it has to, for one to go DEEPER and to the next level of intimacy.

Why has all this become popular in our day unlike any other? We need to understand the enemies intent to water down the church and have it look no different than the world, but still have it look spiritual. The more we seek these new methods the less we will be effective in answers and explaining or even presenting the gospel. As we watch these things taking place we need to be aware of those who are holding to the faith that is presented to us in the Bible and those who bring in something very different to have us change.

People will always chase the new thing[s] down wherever they are not holding to and practicing the old thing accurately- God’s eternal word. Ancient it may be, but it is the truth that stands the test of time, to all cultures and all generations, and that is what our focus should be on. http://www.letusreason.org/current86.htm


Nah, me don’t think so Elmarie…… this is NAR and new age language… this is the trend in these last days – to go “deeper”, to experience “deeper”…..

in spending time in the Word last night, I wrote down this:
you actually CANNOT go deeper!
Why not?

Colossians 2:8-10 (KJV)
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
10And YE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power:
(my emphasis)

Ephesians 3:19 (KJV)
(my emphasis)

so I believe we have the FULLNESS of God IN us by the indwelling of His Holy Spirit. Because of our sinfulness, we don’t perceive all aspects of what it really means yet, and it varies from individual to individual.

Rom 12:1-2 actually gives us the answer how to discover this fullness, but most people find it easier to run to all the buildings / churches where “things are happening”. Then they ‘receive’ anointings and get ‘imparted’ with all kind of ‘spiritual things’ which were not first TESTED and therefore not DISCERNED, and the result is, you will for ever run from place to place and experience to experience, trying to fill this “void of not understanding”. Where one could have well just took some time and waited on the Lord at home, and He would have, through Holy Spirit and the Word, revealed this “mysteries” to you.

But the buzz word today is NOW. I want it now, I want to know now, etc. God’s “buzz-word” (if I might call it that, and no, it’s not in Scripture!), is WAIT on the Lord ….

so I will sum this up as:
ALL of God was in Christ and still is. When we know Jesus Christ, we don’t need to seek God by means of religious cults, or un-biblical philosophies (as the Colossians were doing).
If we say we can go deeper, experience deeper, worship deeper, etc. we kind of deny the fact mentioned in Col 2.

This, just my thoughts…. many might differ from me, but aren’t we supposed to check it in the Scriptures?

Elmarie A

Biddag wys Kaapstad is slaggereed vir skouspel
2010-03-23 00:04
Theuns van der Westhuizen en Jana Breytenbach


Die sowat 43 850 Christene wat gister die Kaapstad-stadion volgepak het om na die evangelis Angus Buchan te luister en ook vir die stadion te bid met die oog op die Wêreldbeker-sokkertoernooi, het gewys Kaapstad is slaggereed vir dié skouspel.

Duisende Christene het van 11:00 na die Kaapstad-stadion gestroom vir die Jesus vir Kaapstad-saamtrek – een van verskeie biddae in Wêreldbeker-stadions landwyd – waar Buchan die groot trekpleister was.

Onder die hooggeplaastes was me. Helen Zille, die Wes-Kaap se premier.

Alles, ook die vervoerreëlings na en van die stadion, het glad verloop en daar was geen misdaadverwante voorvalle nie, het die burgemeester, mnr. Dan Plato, gesê. Gister was die stadion se derde en grootste proeflopie vir die Wêreldbeker-toernooi.

Buchan het Psalm 37 as teks gebruik en gesê verskillende geleenthede klop tans aan Suid-Afrika se deur. Suid-Afrikaners het nou die geleentheid om aan besoekers te wys hoe God mense se lewe verbeter en ook hoe verskillende geloofsgroepe in vrede kan saamwoon.

Die tweede deel van sy preek het gehandel oor die rol wat die man in die gesin speel. Mans is die leiers in die gesin en as hulle ’n dienende gesagsposisie inneem, sal gesinne makliker herstel.

“Kinders sal dan na God gryp en nie na dwelms nie, want hul pa doen dit nie.”

Mnr. Graham Power, bekende Kaapse sakeman en organiseerder van die eerste groot Christen-byeenkoms in Kaapstad nege jaar gelede, het bely hy leef sedert die eerste saamtrek in Februarie 1999 vir Christus en het innerlike vrede.

Die saamtrek het sedertdien gegroei tot ’n wêreldwye biddag waaraan 350 miljoen mense verlede jaar deelgeneem het.

Dít was die eerste golf van geloofsherlewing. Die tweede golf begin nou onder die vaandel van “Onbeskaamd Eties”, wat onlangs van stapel gestuur is. Daarna kom ’n derde golf wat ten doel het om Afrika te hervorm tot die “Lig vir die Wêreld”.

Power en mnr. Steve Johnston van die “Onbeskaamd Eties”- veldtog het gesê hulle daag alle Suid-Afrikaners uit om hulle in die openbaar te verbind tot die veldtog, wat ’n etiese samelewing bevorder.

Vroeër het kom. Mzwandile Petros, Wes-Kaapse polisiekommissaris, ’n beroep op Christene gedoen om betrokke te raak in die stryd teen misdaad in die Wes-Kaap.

– Die Burger

Elmarie A


Just wondering if that “third wave” did not hit SA?

They are spelled out clearly 1 , 2 and 3 . You where right!!!

1. Dít was die eerste golf van geloofsherlewing.

2.Die tweede golf begin nou onder die vaandel van “Onbeskaamd Eties”, wat onlangs van stapel gestuur is.

3.Daarna kom ’n derde golf wat ten doel het om Afrika te hervorm tot die “Lig vir die Wêreld”.

My oh my :-)

Elmarie A

Oh my see what I see on Unashamedly Ethical partners.

[New Heart Foundation] “The New Heart Foundation works toward the recovery of essential values and norms within the South African context. Schools, business, communities of faith, local government and the media need to incorporate honesty, compassion, responsibility and self-control in all it does and advocate. We gladly network with any ministry that has a burden for a restored nation”

Jannie Pelser


Elmarie A

Can anyone see the Buzzzz words?

What is Unashamedly Ethical?

Understanding the purpose – Building Community

Our goal is to form local communities of signatories all over the world. The forming of communities is our goal, because community relationships are the heart of transformation. Click HERE to read testimonies from all over the world about how people have benefitted from starting or joining an Unashamedly Ethical local community.

Joining in RW Purpose driven world !

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