Roger

>> And therefore, given that you believe me to be a trickster, what am I left to say?

Not just me, Your friend Nic Paton first referred to you as the greatest trickster he knows and you thanked him for his wonderful compliment on his blog.

So yeah, what are you left to say…

Thank you! I have listened to Understanding the Times before. Solid stuff. Now I see on your link that they have a low bandwidth version of the programs available. Aha! Bookmarked.

I will check out the Prophecy in the News link. Thanks!

If you like Ingrid Schueter here’s another modern day Deborah that you will like. The radio program is called ‘Understanding the times’.

http://www.olivetreeviews.org/radio/mp3/

Also,

http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/

By the very fact that you have chosen to use the term ‘change agent’ reveals naivety on your part and a lack of sensitivity to post-modern terms (and to those that actually study modern trends and cloaked socialist terms). Change in post-modernism means a ‘revolution’ which equates to this.

Thesis (truth) + antithesis (an opposing idea) = synthesis.

Simply put ‘change’ in the modern day church means synthesising clear biblical truths with post-modern thought where there are no absolutes. The result we get is this verbally fantastic nonsense that means whatever you want it to mean. Sprinkle it with words like jesus, culturally relevant, gospel, love, missional etc and you have what sounds like Christianity. The tolerance post-modernism teaches is totally intolerant to those that place the authority of scripture and accuracy of interpretation above all else. (That would be studying to show thyself approved and being led of the Holy Spirit).

More Christ-like? Which Christ? The biblical one that says deny yourself, pick up your cross…? Or the modern, reinvented Christ? (Which one; cosmic jesus, christ consciousness, the only-love jesus, the socialist/revolutionary jesus, the universalist jesus, the dominionist jesus, the soppy, intimate, effeminate jesus, the end-world-poverty-and-eradicate-sickness-jesus…?

We don’t want change!!! We want the old paths. The gospel – by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone. The way, the truth the life.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The emergent church that is busy synthesizing their poisonous nonsense with the true church is Cross-less. And Christ-less.

Kingdom purposes? Can you define that?

Could that be paying with your LIFE for the sake of the gospel??? Like what is happening in north Korea, Iran, China, Nigeria etc? That is the highest ‘purpose’!

http://www.persecution.com/

You need to preach the true Gospel. The true Gospel is not culturally relevant – it will cause you to be hated by all men. It will cause you to influence the culture NOT Synthesize into it.

Isaiah 66:4
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Here in South Africa we also have Sarel van der Merwe and Thomas over at Watch and Pray.

I get told Change Agents are great and wonderful and need to be featured on the up and coming “South Africa’s Got Talent” show. But the stuff I am reading on Change Agents’ associates websites tells a different story.

What a surprise when Peter Veysie shows up. What a surprise when I find an interview he did on emergingafrica with a guy who believes that Satan and Jesus are one and the same. And Peter was not there to preach the gospel to him, repentance of sin through Jesus Christ…. Noooo no…no…

So who needs another reality tv show when you can just come here for the next episode of:

“These are the days of our emergent lies”
…..oh sorry I mean ‘lives’.…

Peter Veysie from Ridgeway Ministries trying to ‘Bridge’ that Gap:

Michael

Ah yes, that reminds me I need to put Chris’ piratechristianradio banner back on my site. It was on my old site and just aint gotten around to doing it on this one.

And thank you for those links. The emergent doctrine is as such – The quick version:

Remove the Word from Jesus. Just follow Jesus. If you need instructions of some sort, come back to the Word (but leave Jesus out of it) sit around and discuss what a certain verse means. When you are all happy with the new meaning of the verse in your life, especially when it comes to concealing sin in your life then, retreat back into the real world to pass on this new mind blowing revelation and invite your new friends around for coffee to hug and dialogue.

If evening was successful invite them to church on Sunday where there will be special guests coming to measure your carbon footprint – If it sounds stressful you should be stressed because we all emit enough carbon to blow this planet into smithereens any second now. But we have a remedy to de-stress: Contemplative prayer and a walk through a labyrinth. Once your mind has been cleared out, you can proceed to the kiddies play room for finger-painting. Don’t worry about tissues to clean your hands, just use the pages of your bible you brought with you.

You are more than welcome to add your 10 cents at any time. I usually only add 2 cents cos the other 8 cents got lost somewhere….somewhere..

Chris Roseborough from Pirate Christian Radio was a host on Crosstalk Christian Radio last week.

http://www.crosstalkamerica.com/

This has thus far been the most articulate expose of the emergent heresy and a explanation of what is driving their – well, we cant call it doctrines because they are a constant moving target – call it beliefs.

Bob de Waay from Critical Issues Commentary http://cicministry.org/
has also done a fantastic job at discernment on this issue. He has a book called ‘The Emergent Church, undefining Christianity’

http://www.piratechristianradio.com/

Just my 10 cents

Peter Veysie

>> You said: I am first of all hoping that you are a brother or sister in Christ and that your defence of the gospel is for the sake of Jesus and not because you are a very sad and irritated man or woman. I am also sad that we can’t chat to you because you are anonymous, but heh if you need some healing or someone to chat to you have my email address. I am heading up Change Agents in South Africa and am the Senior Pastor of Ridgeway Ministries and you are so far from the truth of what we do, it is frightening. Speak to me if you are brave enough and I will give you the truth and “the truth will set you free”. Pete

As you can clearly see my stand for the Gospel is for Jesus Christ and to WARN the people you lead astray with your NEW AGE Christian teaching which goes AGAINST the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I don’t need to chat to you face to face to know that you speak a false doctrine. Your smiling face will not hide the feelings you have, or the words that you speak that OPPOSE the gospel of Jesus Christ – unfortunately many will fall for it. But I warn never the less for those who are seeking the TRUTH (there is only ONE truth and that is Jesus Christ the Son of God – not your fasle Christ with many truths). And because they LOVE the Word of God, they will see through you and your new age rainbow bridge where all faiths lead to one god.

See Interview by clicking link below: Peter Veysie is the Senior Pastor of Ridgeway Ministries, Rivonia, Gauteng, South Africa. He is busy with a Doctorate looking at “Bridging the Gap between today’s church and tomorrow’s world in an African urban Context”. His supervisors are Leonard Sweet and Christopher Peppler.

Peter Veysie from Ridgeway Ministries trying to ‘Bridge’ that Gap

Peter

Emergent dialogue is something that is really beginning to get on my nerves. Why must I chat to you all? So you can change my mind? Well understand this now and pass it along to all your friends, I am not going to change my belief in Jesus Christ the Son of God for your New Age Christ. Right, now that we have covered that…read my comments below. The only reason why I am expected by you lot to speak to you face to face is for you to CHANGE my thinking. If we are indeed bretheren in Christ then pray tell why we believe in two completely different gospels???

>> Speak to me if you are brave enough and I will give you the truth and “the truth will set you free”.

the Word of God is the truth, Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life. Only He can give us the truth, Not you!

These are the questions Bert/PGYFSF (same person) asked me and I replied beneath the bullet points:

• Glorifying God in all that we do by submitting to the Lordship of Jesus, obeying God’s word as revealed in the scriptures, being led and empowered by the Holy Spirit, and pursuing God’s Kingdom purposes.

Oh well done, no one really understands what that means. 1 point for a concealed message.
PS, The Holy Spirit is on the INSIDE of a born again Christian, not the outside and does not empower people – He is not a BEE inituative

• Being relevant for our time and context, engaging each subculture effectively with the word of God, modeling authentic Christian lifestyle and community, and confronting cultural values and practices which dishonour God and rob people of their God-given value and purpose.

relevant for our time = interpeting scritpure in a new way for the 21st centuary
engaging each subculture effectively = with the new message that suits them all and tickles their ears,
modeling authentic christian lifestlye and community = oh there is a manual, “how to be good” – are we are still trying to determine what ‘good’ means, ah feed the poor is one of them. Actually let’s discuss what GOOD means and don’t say following Jesus’s way. For HE was SINLESS, mankind is not.
confronting cultural values and practices which dishonour God and rob people of their God-given value and purpose = huh??? I still aint heard about Salvation and repentance of sin…you know, the most important part.

• Developing Bible-based discipleship communities that are contextually relevant, incarnational, and transformational.

Speak English! contextually relevant? What hogwash is that? incarnational? oh…yes, and transformational – spoken like a true Emergent, nothing like developing a bunch of people into thinking this is the gospel of Jesus just because somewhere you mentioned the name Jesus. Well sorry for you, but I don’t buy it, cos I actually read the Bible.

• Helping leaders reach their maximum potential in Christ by building intimacy with God, growing in Christian character, developing and exercising their spiritual gifts, and discovering and pursuing God’s purposes for their lives and church communities.

Highest maximun potential in Christ? How many levels are there? 7 levels by any change? Does one stop when you have reached god level? (Or Alchemist level?)
All this stuff you speak of is pureply from a human works perspective. You can’t do any of this without being born again and having the Holy Spirit abiding in you.
You will never be like Jesus Christ or even close…we will remain pathetic little humans until we die and hopefully before that you have repented of your sin and realised that YOU need GOD. He doesnt need you.

• Cooperative efforts in the Body of Christ to proclaim the gospel more effectively, serve and uplift our communities, and address critical issues.

It’s the Holy Spirit who proclaims the gospel, not you. It the Holy Spirit who saves, not you. And you wont believe it, but the Word of God is the most EFFECTIVE tool to proclaim the gospel and address critical issues. Especially in situations where people come along dressed in sheeps clothes trying to hoodwink people into thinking that their little camps are there to teach the gospel when in fact it’s been rigged up for the sole purpose to preach lies DISGUISED as Christianity.

• Serving as role models and mentors for emerging leaders

eeeee-mmmmmmmmeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrgggggggeeeeeeeennnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyyyyyy – Men serving as role models? Men born into sin who try walking a good life based on worldly principles and values.

• Practicing true Biblical leadership modeled on the person and practices of Jesus and informed by God’s written word.

And pray tell where is being born again, and the Holy Spirit in any of this?? NO WHERE. So, you fail. Sorry – minus 1 point

• Equity and fairness in all interaction with emerging Christian leaders, regardless of denominational affiliation, gender, race, age, and socioeconomic status.

Oh yessss, gotta be equal and fair. Tell me do you think homosexuality is a sin?
In fact let me ask an even easier question. Do you believe that it’s discriminatory to preach repentance of sin, wrath and hell for those who disobey God’s Word?? I mean it’s only God’s Words after all. We are not making this stuff up as we go along.

• Moral and financial integrity in all that we do and say

Oops, we are missing the most crucial factor here; Being born again and having the HOLY SPIRIT abide in you – The Holy Spirit is the only ONE that can convict one of what is right and wrong.

• Sustained excellence and quality in our training, resources, and administration.

Yes, we have to throw in some advertisting, without advertising you can’t hook new fish. By the way, what do you measure your excellence and quality against when you don’t use the bible as your plumbline?

• Wise stewardship and a high level of accountability

Wise? says who? Accountability? to who?

I hope this rectifies your perspective. Sorry to disappoint you, but we are basically straight down the Biblical line when it comes to our beliefs and praxis.

No, sorry to disappoint you, and no you are not in any way biblical, you are emergent, new age, with one world views.

We encourage Change Agents participants to be like the Bereans and ‘examine the scriptures’ to see if what we teach is biblical. But more importantly, it is our desire that God’s word be practiced, especially by those in Christian leadership.

The bible COMMANDS that ALL be like Bereans and examine the scriptures. You can’t practice anything without God’s Holy Spirit in your life. If you have no conviction, then what guides you? Your fleshly worldly self? And what’s the point of following the wrong gospel? Well… kinda silly really is it not.

You want directions and when the Word of God tells you what they are you decide that it’s not culturally relevant for our time and go another way.