Born Again Christians Compared to Inquisitors of the Inquisitions

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Born Again Christians are Now Compared to Inquisitors of the Inquisitions

This is a very interesting article written shortly after my critique of the Amahoro Gathering where Brian McLaren graced everyone with his presence in South Africa in June 2009.

Steve from khanya.wordpress.com says that my critique of the opening speech at Amahoro by Claude Nikondeha “….reflects the very worst of modernity.”   But that’s no surprise considering the Emergent Church (Interfaith, Ecumenical, One World Religion) is Postmodern – Socialism disguised as ‘good’ works, ‘good’ fruit and the acceptance of a One World Religion.  The fruit they speak of looks nice on the outside but is rotten on the inside for they oppose what the Bible has to say in every way possible.

Post-Modernity opposes the Word of God in that:

– There is no such thing as right or wrong
– There is no such thing as good or evil
– There is no such thing as sin
– There is no such thing as truth.  Truth is a lie.

Because born again Christians prefer to hold onto the Word of God (which is the Truth) they are now saying that we are like the Inquisitors of the Inquisition.  They are now insinuating that wewill most probably physically persecute those who believe in freedom (um…socialism), the idea that everything else is the truth, except the Bible.

The Inquisitions that took place was in response to people who wanted to break away from the apostate or heretical Roman Catholic Church – who dominated and branded those who refused to belong to the Mother Church as heretics.  They needed to be removed, eradicated, tortured, murdered in the most terrible of ways.  Of course many other people of other faiths also received the long end of their stick.   They tolerated no one, no matter who you were, if you did want to accept their god you were branded.

Today genuine Christians are now being called Bastards or Infidels as Francois Arouet De Voltaire (1694 – 1778) put it all those years ago.  And adherents of the Emergent movement in 2009 are now saying the same thing.

Voltaire – ‘a French Enlightenmentwriter’ – opposed Roman Catholicism fiercely which he considered to be Christian.  Quite frankly I don’t blame him for thinking this way; but because of his hatred for what he thought was Christianity, he claimed that the Gospels were figments of someone’s imagination and Jesus did not exist.  The lies of the Roman Catholic church and their insistence that they were and still are Christian has made a very volatile situation for born again Christians.

Voltaire despised ‘Christianity’ / Roman Catholic church for they imposed an absolute truth which was their version of taking the Gospels and applying it to their evil ideals.  They used the Bible and the name of God to torture and murder hundreds of thousands of people who would not believe what they said was the truth.  Their version of the truth was that what the Pope spoke was infallible, not the Word of God, if Rome said the gospel meant ‘this’ then that was that – agree and live, argue and die.  The Catholic Church placed themselves above the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the only ones who could understand what God was saying – and of course that is a complete lie for ALL who are truly born again can understand the Word of God as everyone is lead by the Holy Spirit into all truth, understanding and remembrance of Jesus Christ.

Anyhow, the world is now coming to a very very dangerous pinnacle where they blame Christianity for the evils that have taken place through-out the centuries.  The West have caused nothing but destruction therefore post-modernity is the way to go. The capitalist system needs to be eradicated no matter what it takes to be replaced by a Post-Modern form of socialism under the disguise of good works.  But they FAIL to realise that Roman Catholicism is not Christian.   But this does not matter.  As per the Word of God born again Christians will be HATED not because of the LIE that we cause nothing but hostility, but because we adhere to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and this is something that the One World Religion just can’t handle – that we hold onto the Bible for dear life.

My family line has a history of French Hugenout’s who escaped from France when Christians amongst others were being persecuted.

Huguenots became known for their criticisms of worship as performed in the Roman Catholic Church, in particular the focus on ritual and what they viewed as an obsession with death and the dead. They believed the ritual, images, saints, pilgrimages, prayers, and hierarchy of the Catholic Church did not help anyone toward redemption.  In other words, no SALVATION could come from the teachings of Roman Catholicism, only spiritual destruction.

The Roman Catholic Church fanatically opposed the Huguenots, attacking pastors and congregants as they attempted to meet in secret for worship. The Huguenots, in self-defense against the Roman Catholic Church, at times took up arms, even taking a few Catholic controlled cities.

On Sunday, March 12th, 2002, the Pope John Paul II apologized for the errors of his church for the last 2000 years. 

“… we cannot fail to recognize the infidelities to the Gospel committed by some of our brethren, especially during the second millennium. Let us ask pardon for the divisions which have occurred among Christians, for the violence some have used in the service of the truth and for the distrustful and hostile attitudes sometimes taken towards the followers of other religions.”  [note:  some of our brethren…and sometimes hostle attitutudes?  LOL.  How to ‘apologise and not to apologise’ at the same time.  Hmmm, lets see who ordered these crimes…]

The Vatican’s Papal bulls, briefs and addresses and apologies to the public are nothing but LIES.

We give you a strict command that, by whatever means you can, you destroy all these heresies and expel from your diocese all who are polluted with them. You shall exercise the rigor of the ecclesiastical power against them and all those who have made themselves suspected by associating with them. They may not appeal from your judgments, and if necessary, you may cause the princes and people to suppress them with the sword.   – Medieval Sourcebook, Innocent III: Letters on Papal Policies.  Letter to the Archbishob of Auch, 1198.

Christians were martyred by Roman ‘fake-Christian’ Catholicism – Direct orders from God, sorry I mean the Popes!

Steve says regarding my article:  Amahoro – Transfiguration to Take Over Africa and Then the World …

 What makes the critique so boring is that it reflects the very worst of modernity.

John Ralston Saul, in his book Voltaire’s bastards: the dictatorship of reason in the West, writes:

The Inquisitors were the first to formalize the idea that to every question there is a right answer. The answer is known but the question must be asked and correctly answered. Relativism, humanism, common sense and moral beliefs were all irrelevant to this process because they assume doubt. Since the Inquisitors knew the answer, doubt was impossible. Process, however, was essential for efficient governance and process required that questions be asked in order to produce the correct answer.

The writer of the critique on Claude Nikondeha’s paper seems to have a similar attitude. [note:  that’s me]  Because there is a right answer to every question, and the answers are known, [note: yes there is an answer to everything, it’s called the Bible, which you want nothing to do with] there is no need to explain “where he is coming from”.  [note:  coming from the Bible] Anyone who disagrees with him/her is ipso facto a heretic. [note:  of course quoting Latin makes one seem non heretical (like the Vatican) and super-apostle like as ‘intelligence’ detracts one from the fact that they mock, insult and deny Jesus Christ by ripping the bible in half ] And of course if he/she did say where he/she was coming from, and stated his/her unstated assumptions, he/she might reveal himself/herself as a heretic. [note:  um, where did you miss that I am coming from a Bible believing genuine Christian perspective?  Which as you say reveals me as a heretic.]

And it is this kind of oracular authority that represents the worst that modernity has to offer. Read the tale of the Grand Inquisitor in Dostoevsky’s The brothers Karamazov to see where this kind of thinking can lead to.”

[So as we can see genuine Christians are going to be the cause of a repeat of inquisition type horrors.  Which is funny coming from Steve who is an ‘Orthodox Christian’ aka Roman Catholic adherent – Everything has been TWISTED around.  The original persecutors are now the innocent ones and the innocent ones are now going to be the persecutors.]

Source:  http://khanya.wordpress.com

Quotes by Francois Arouet De Voltaire [1]:

“The Eternal has his designs from all eternity. If prayer is in accord with his immutable wishes, it is quite useless to ask of him what he has resolved to do. If one prays to him to do the contrary of what he has resolved, it is praying that he be weak, frivolous, inconstant; it is believing that he is thus, it is to mock him. Either you ask him a just thing, in which case he must do it, the thing being done without your praying to him for it, and so to entreat him is then to distrust him; or the thing is unjust, and then you insult him. You are worthy or unworthy of the grace you implore: if worthy, he knows it better than you; if unworthy, you commit another crime by requesting what is undeserved.

In a word, we only pray to God because we have made him in our image. We treat him like a pasha, like a sultan whom one may provoke or appease.”    “Prayers” (1770)

“If God has made us in his image, we have returned him the favor.”   Notebooks (c.1735-c.1750)

“Where is the prince sufficiently educated to know that for seventeen hundred years the Christian sect has done nothing but harm?”Letters of Voltaire and Frederick the Great (New York: Brentano’s, 1927), transl. Richard Aldington, letter 160 from Voltaire to Frederick II of Prussia, 1767-04-06 [6]

“The best is the enemy of the good.”   Variant translations:   “The perfect is the enemy of the good orThe better is the enemy of the good.”   La Bégueule (1772)

Not only was Voltaire anti-christian but he was a racist too:

“The Jewish nation dares to display an irreconcilable hatred toward all nations, and revolts against all masters; always superstitious, always greedy for the well-being enjoyed by others, always barbarous – cringing in misfortune and insolent in prosperity.”  Essai sur les Moeurs et l’Esprit des Nations (1753), Introduction, XLII: Des Juifs depuis Saül

“It is a serious question among them whether they [Africans] are descended from monkeys or whether the monkeys come from them. Our wise men have said that man was created in the image of God. Now here is a lovely image of the Divine Maker: a flat and black nose with little or hardly any intelligence. A time will doubtless come when these animals will know how to cultivate the land well, beautify their houses and gardens, and know the paths of the stars: one needs time for everything.” Les Lettres d’Amabed (1769): Septième Lettre d’Amabed

Rome, it’s Popes, it’s bishops, it’s cardinals, it’s puppets, collaborators and fornicators with Roman Catholicism, drenched in the blood of the saints who stood up for Jesus Christ will hand their power to the Man of Lawlessness (Beast/anti-Christ) in the coming years/last days.  And the anti-Christ will destroy them.  The Vatican rides the beast in the hopes it will attain more power, but their followers will be shocked and weep for their precious whore (Mary – Goddess of Fertility) when she burns in ruins.

The good works, the fruit they tried to bare, the fruit they thought they produced, rotting for it was not good fruit from a good tree, but bad fruit from a thorn tree. The kingdom of their own desires they tried to create – thrown into the fire

Revelation 17:3-6

3  Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.
4  The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.
5  This title was written on her forehead:
MYSTERY
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6  I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.

Revelation 18:14-17

14 “They will say, ‘The fruit you longed for is gone from you. All your riches and splendor have vanished, never to be recovered.’
15  The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment. They will weep and mourn
16  and cry out:
‘Woe! Woe, O great city,
dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet,
and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!
17  In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!’


References:

[1] http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Voltaire
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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

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Discerning The World

Iggy

>> It saddens me that you claim Jesus yet choose to hate your brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus… and label them so you can justify your hate

Yeah me too. When I read the websites of supposed South Africa Christians (emergents) who mock, insult, hate, degrade,ridicule Jesus Christ it saddens me too.

iggy

Really your replies to Jon and some to me make no sense and irrational…

Do you really love your neighbor as Jesus commands? Does loving your neighbor mean you can lie about them?

Is your truth so fragile it needs you to protect it? Is your God so weak that He needs to hide behind you for protection?

My God does not need my protection nor is His truth fragile… He protects me by His truth…

If that is mocking your God, then I wonder… is your God really the God of the Bible or is mine?

I am not meaning any of that as a put down, but sincerely hope you prayerfully consider the questions and search them out in the bible for yourself.

iggy

Discerning The World

>> false claims

I just quote form the horses mouth…I took the whole article from Steve’s blog where he quotes Volaitre and then says this is what WE, genuine Christians are going to be the cause of…go take your false claims and tell that to Steve!

>> meanwhile here is an emerging guy on your blog speaking and fighting for Biblical truth

Really? Biblical? Oh yeah…I keep forgetting that the bible can be interpreted and applied to all faiths, and that all religions lead to the same god.

>> I am saddened by your false claims against people I know and I know love Jesus.

You know or heard of Cobus van Wyngaard? If not go read his HORRIFIC, DIGUSING, HORRIFIC articles on his blog. Do you think this is nice? Do you think this edifies Jesus Christ in ANY WAY? Who do you think Cobus is MOCKING here?

How unique was the suffering of Jesus? Not unique at all! –

In fact every one of his articles are so blatantly anti-Christ… Cobus was at Amahoro to and love it!

Amanda

itodyaso

Amanda, If your question was to Roger in the way that meant that he is denying the Holy Spirits working in unbelievers coming to Jesus, I apologize, yet the question itself did not lead me to see that you were asking that.

He did not and I was not.
Roger wrote:

So your hope for Muslims is what, exactly? What about those ones who won’t become Christians? You wash your hands of them and don’t care what happens to them.

and

The Emergent teaching (whatever that is) is not about all faiths leading to one God – I don’t know where you get that. I don’t know enough about the internal tensions with Islam and Buddhism to comment about them, but I know to judge them on the fruit they lead to, and one of the fruits of the spirit is peace. If a religion does not lead to peace, the Holy Spirit is not working within it. If your Christian faith does not lead you to be a peacemaker, same thing.

I asked him:

How do you justify from the Bible your belief that the Holy Spirit is at work in other religions?

Iggy took issue with my question to Roger.

iggy

I read the article you mentioned and see that you missed the point completely or that you disagree with bible when it states:

“Romans 8: 17. Now if we are children, then we are heirs–heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.”

I think you totally missed what was stated in the article and miss part of our salvation is sharing in the sufferings of Jesus. Was Jesus’ sufferings just unique to Him? If so then we could not share in his sufferings… This is what the bible is teaching… do you not agree with what it teaches? There are other verses that back this up but this one is clear enough…

Discerning The World

Oh the fruits thing again – Geeee, it’s like I am stuck in the twighlight zone and keep hearing the same words over and over and over again. Emerging Zombies: Fruittttt….Fruittttttttttt…..Fruitttttttttttttttttttt….Must produce goooooodddddd Frooootttttt.

Good Fruit only comes from a FIG TREE vs bad fruit from a THORN TREE – this what Emergents produce; fruit with thorns.

And of course my verses mean nothing to you because you turn a blind eye to the Mary statues and statues of the Eucharist Christ permenently nailed to a crucifix.

I LOVE by holding onto the bible for dear life and warning others out there of what’s coming soon….the last days right here

My faith is to stand in the face of adversity and continue to problaim Jesus’ name loud and clear – which is the BEST FRUIT THERE IS – All good fruit comes from the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. False teaching looks like it produces good fruit, but in the end, people will suffer for listening and taking poisonus fruit from liars.

itodyaso

Actually it is “Fruit” of the Spirit not fruits… and you keep saying that the Emergents produce bad fruit… I am emergent/emerging (which you seem to not know what either these are as well as the difference) without really giving proof. Good fruit is what God produces in and through us by His Holy Spirit and is not of our own works… bad fruit is legalism and anything that man makes… so since you are steeped in modernism, modernism being man made is contrary to God’s will and purpose..

I keep pointing out verse after verse which YOU do not work through… I agree that much of the symbolism of Catholicism is not good… yet not all is bad. Calvin himself pulled from Augustine and St. Bernard (both considered mystics by the RCC and it seems if Calvin was alive today you would attack him also!)… so maybe a good historical history lesson about the church would help you greatly. Funny most of the emergent/emerging people I hang with proclaim Jesus loud and clear also… as well as love the people they are proclaiming to! You say you love to give warning… yes that is PART of the Good News… but you are missing the important part of love… Jesus stated that his disciples will be know for their love… right? I see love everywhere in emergent/emerging… is all good… no. But so much is unlike you say it is. Maybe you do not see it as you are blind to the ongoing conversation God started and continues in Christ Jesus.

My faith is to totally trust in Jesus in all He has done and is still doing. We are to fight the good fight..that fight is of faith… of walking and abiding in Christ and not fighting against others. (1 TIm 6:12) It seems you have twisted that verse in such a perverse way and cannot see the damage and harm you do as you fight the fight for God instead of with God in YOUR OWN faith.

So, Deborah, it seems you do not know what fruit is about and what the fight is agaisnt and for… Jesus told Peter to worry about himself and not others… and that Jesus would deal with others. THat is not out terriroy… but again that is a verse that must be missing from your own bible.

Jesus is where we get the Life that saves us… not by works or by our beliefs. THe Holy Spirit guides us in all truth and so many want to be the Holy SPirit and do His job of convicting others. WHy do you want to usurp the Holy SPirit in His job?

You have stated many slanderous things against people and mock GOd by using the world’s tools to do what God is doing… you stand in hte way of salvation for others and in that keep Jesus from others.

My prayers are for you not against you… that you grow in the Grace and Kowledge of our Lord Jesus,

iggy

Rebecca

DAVID LETTERMAN’S HATE, ETC. !

David Letterman’s hate is as old as some ancient Hebrew prophets.
Speaking of anti-Semitism, it’s Jerry Falwell and other fundy leaders who’ve gleefully predicted that in the future EVERY nation will be against Israel (an international first?) and that TWO-THIRDS of all Jews will be killed, right?
Wrong! It’s the ancient Hebrew prophet Zechariah who predicted all this in the 13th and 14th chapters of his book! The last prophet, Malachi, explains the reason for this future Holocaust that’ll outdo even Hitler’s by stating that “Judah hath dealt treacherously” and “the Lord will cut off the man that doeth this” and asks “Why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother?”
Haven’t evangelicals generally been the best friends of Israel and persons perceived to be Jewish? Then please explain the recent filthy, hate-filled, back-stabbing tirades by David Letterman (and Sandra Bernhard and Kathy Griffin) against a leading evangelical named Sarah Palin, and explain why most Jewish leaders have seemingly condoned Palin’s continuing “crucifixion”!
While David, Sandra, and Kathy are tragically turning comedy into tragedy, they are also helping to speed up and fulfill the Final Holocaust a la Zechariah and Malachi, thus helping to make the Bible even more believable!
(For even more stunning information, visit MSN and type in “Separation of Raunch and State” and “Bible Verses Obama Avoids.”)

Discerning The World

The links at the bottom of the article for Steve’s website the writer who says that ‘absolute truth’ will lead back to inquisitions. This should give you a good place to start searching for the real truth of what is going on.

I do not read conspiracy, left behind rubbish. I read the Word of God. Everything you need to know is in there…go read it. It’s ALL in there.

Steve

The book, Voltaire’s bastards was a critique of Western modernity’s obsession with reason and rationality, and in a way a plea for ways of knowing that are non-rational, which is one of the things that postmodernity is about. But this post seems to be merely irrational, raising up one straw man after another in order to knock it down, and for what? What is the point?

Amanda

Iggy

I asked Roger:

How do you justify from the Bible your belief that the Holy Spirit is at work in other religions?

You wrote paragraphs about that one sentence including doubt about my salvation, the teaching that I am under, my rejection of the Word of God and my lack of maturity. All that from one sentence. I quoted three times what Roger actually said, yet to cannot or will not discern that. I do not understand this.

Now you are quoting the Law. Is keeping the Law works or Gospel? Do you keep that Law?

Help me out here, Iggy. Clearly we are not on the same page.

Discerning The World

Rebecca

I totally agree. Jews were also a major focus of inquisitions. Since the beginning of time actually Satan has been trying to wipe out the Jewish race – the line of Jesus Christ. And it wont stop. The world speaks about the horrors of the holocaust and at the same time try to eridicate Israel and say it’s in no way anti-semetic…pffff.

But I have a bit of a shock for you Rebecca – what is also horrendus is the New Apostolic Reformation movement (of which Sarah Palin is part of) along with the Word of Faith momement are doing the exact same thing. Except they want Israel for themselves. Hence they believe the church is Israel and Israel is the church. They are creating an Army of God or Joels Army – they use Joel 2 to try back up that they have the right to take Jerusalem for themselves. They broadcast from Israel, they host trips to Israel, they even use Jewish Mysticism in their ‘prophecy’, they build tabernacles, they end their conversarions with shalom and so some extent are going back to keeping the law.

It not only the Roman Catholic church who proclaim themselves to be Christian when they are clearly not. But the New Apostolic Reformation / Word of Faith / Latter Rain movements who proclaim to be Christian too but are not.

Oh the disasters to be fall Israel soon….attacked from all sides. I pray for the Jewish race in ernest that they come to accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour.

I pray I am not around to see multitudes of different armies marching towards Jerusalem to try claim it for themselves.

Amanda

I am with you there, Steve. The emergents are changing Christianity and it gets a bit tedious when they pretend that they are not. They are welcome to promote any kind of political system. They are welcome to change their theology. They are free to do all that, but they do not get to set the rules for fundamentalists, meaning those that hold to the fundamentals of the Reformed faith. I have no idea how they could ever think that the other side should remain silent or that they would simply become emergent, too, because some young theologian has better ideas on how God is supposed to operate outside of His revealed Word.

Amanda

Sorry. Should read:
yet you cannot or will not discern that. I do not understand this.

Eugene Roberts

Deborah,

Where do you get this information from? It appears to me that you are reading conspiracy theory blogs and Left Behind type novels and then interpreting the Bible from that perspective.

I’m not being sarcastic, I really want to know.

Discerning The World

Iggy

>> (which you seem to not know what either these are as well as the difference)

Oh PUUULEASEEEEEE….Jon Trott said “Emergent. Good grief, I don’t even think the emergent folks know what they mean by that term.” …..I know exactly what it means. ‘All faiths lead to the same God’

>> without really giving proof

Why must I give proof of what Emergent/Emerging is. I know what it is, if you don’t knowwhat it is, then…go find out. I can quote many Emergent Leaders who CLEARY say and GIVE CLEAR meaning to what the Emerging movement is all about. That all faiths are to come together as one. Really…Iggy….come now…stop hiding what you REALLY believe.

>> Good fruit is what God produces in and through us by His Holy Spirit and is not of our own works… bad fruit is legalism and anything that man makes… so since you are steeped in modernism, modernism being man made is contrary to God’s will and purpose..

Do you drive a car? Do you watch TV? Oh my you use the internet. Please I urge you to delete your blogs as fast as possible!!! You modern person you lol. Anyhow are saying that the bible, Word of God is man made and not completely and fully God’s word, inspired by God, given to man through the Holy Spirit where man wrote down God’s word? Because I am a born again Christian who believes 100% in the the Bible and what it has to say and nothing else. Brian McLaren however says the Word of God is not final..that man can add to it. Jesus was a carpenter, Paul made tents to sell, Jesus wore man made sandles.

>> I keep pointing out verse after verse which YOU do not work through

What verses? Where? Oh you mean this 1, one, ONE verse you quoted below. I’ve looked through your other comments and can’t find other verses you quoted.

>> I agree that much of the symbolism of Catholicism is not good… yet not all is bad

Please, oh please tell us which parts are the good ones?

>> Calvin himself pulled from Augustine and St. Bernard (both considered mystics by the RCC and it seems if Calvin was alive today you would attack him also!)…

John Calvin bowed to the Roman Catholic church and even sent a man to his death via a Roman trial for disagreeing with him.

>> Funny most of the emergent/emerging people I hang with proclaim Jesus loud and clear also… as well as love the people they are proclaiming to! You say you love to give warning… yes that is PART of the Good News… but you are missing the important part of love… Jesus stated that his disciples will be know for their love… right? I see love everywhere in emergent/emerging… is all good… no. But so much is unlike you say it is. Maybe you do not see it as you are blind to the ongoing conversation God started and continues in Christ Jesus.

Yes, they says Jesus name loud and clear and then deny him the same day by agreeing with people who speak nothing but hate against Jesus Christ.

Do you consider it to be good fruit when people mock, insult, ridicule, degrade Jesus Christ?

If not, then why do you have anything to do with the Emergent Church who speak the name of Jesus Christ and then say the most hateful things about him?

And if your answer is NO, surely people saying degrading things about Jesus Christ is not good fruit AT ALL!! So now please explain to us how the Emergent Church can produce good fruit as a whole when they are a THORN TREE.

>> (1 TIm 6:12) It seems you have twisted that verse in such a perverse way and cannot see the damage and harm you do as you fight the fight for God instead of with God in YOUR OWN faith.

Oh goodie, let’s go read Timothy 6. As we will see YOU ARE THE ONE WHO PERVETS the Word of God.

1 Timothy 6:1, 3-5, 11-12, 20-21

1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered.
3 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
4 he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
5 and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.
12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
20 Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge,
21 which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith.
Grace be with you.

Ok, firstly the entire context of chapter 6 is actually about greed and money, but let’s put into the context you charge me with. A letter from Paul to Timothy. Timothy was having a bit of a problem with people who refused to listen to the Gospel of Jesus; who want to create their treasures on earth. In doing so, these people were slandering the name of God.
Paul then tells Timothy that if anyone teaches false doctrine and does not agree with sound doctrine and Godly teaching as Jesus Christ COMMANDED; then these people are conceited and understand nothing – this means the Word of God, hence they use little verses here and there to mislead people with their evil plans.

Paul says that corrupt men, who refuse the sound instruction of Jesus Christ to preach genuine teaching, are only interested in controversies and quarrels about ‘words’ that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction. Paul says that these men who refuse sound teaching have NOT Truth in them and think that godliness is when you try to produce good works on earth (which means nothing). They think that trying to create ‘heaven on earth’ makes them special and godly.

Paul then tells Timothy to run away from these people, FLEE THEM, and pursue those who are righteous, who have godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness for they are truly born again of the Holy Spirit. Paul tells Timothy however to NOT STOP FIGHTING the GOOD FIGHT (good fruit) of DEFENGING the FAITH (the true gospel of Jesus Christ – good news).

Timothy is instructed to hold fast onto Jesus’ promise of eternal life when Timothy made a public confession that by accepting Jesus as his Saviour he will hold fast onto the truth and proclaim it at ALL COSTS. But at the same time, STAY AWAY from wicked people who refuse to hear the Truth. (Eternal life is not on this earth, but in Hevean, and this earth WILL not become HEAVEN. Emergent’s along with every other movement/religion out there are trying to create God’s Kingdom on earth (man’s kingdom) which is useless and ungodly)

Paul tells Timothy to take care of the instructions that Jesus Christ entrusted to him. To not find himself ensnared in godless chatter with people who OPPOSE the Word of God. Who come along with NEW knowledge that is completely false (like good fruit that is actually bad fruit). Timothy (and ALL genuine Christians today) are NOT to try build relationships with those who are no longer following the gospel of Jesus Christ, but have wondered off the track and now follow new teaching/false teaching, which sounds biblical, but it not.

****

So Iggy…as we can see your perverted interpretation of scripture is false, and as we can see the Word of God tells born again Christians to not engage in godless chatter with people who refuse to accept the truth. In fact we are not to engage with people who oppose the Word of God in any way. This includes those who quote verses from the bible as they try desperately to back up their NEW Kingdom knowledge and accept ideas from all religions around the world as well as being compatible to the Bible –which GOD also COMMANDS you NOT to do- because if you do, you deny Him.

Hmmm…in fact, this ends my chat with you. You have the Word of God, the Bible. There is no excuse for you to follow people who have corrupt minds, who hide behind coffee and hugs.
God speaks very clearly His message to you, via the Bible. Choose to follow what God says and stop twisting His word to suit your friend’s ideologies, or choose to follow your friends and the world. The bridges you try to build are built on false teaching and will crumble.

Oh regarding ‘all’ those verses you quoted, I have only found the Romans 8 verse which I already answered.

>> My prayers are for you not against you… that you grow in the Grace and Kowledge of our Lord Jesus,

Lastly, please do not pray for me….I do not worship your god(s). I worship the God spoken of in the Bible, the God’s whos Holy Spirit abides in me. The God who sent His Only Son to die for me. The God who gives me strength to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ always.

Discerning The World

Ahhh then Steve what was your point then of writing what you did above? Insinuating, but quoting Voltaire that ‘Christians’ who he has confused with Roman Catholics who could not obey the commandment of ‘thou shalt not kill’ to save their lives. You have insinuated that those who hold onto the gospel are causing hostility. But you did not distinguish between genuine Christians and Roman Catholics. You lump us into the same category.

Let me re quote you: “And it is this kind of oracular authority that represents the worst that modernity has to offer. Read the tale of the Grand Inquisitor in Dostoevsky’s The brothers Karamazov to see where this kind of thinking can lead to.”

As Iggy said, modernity opposes the word of God, and I am the very worse of modernity, hence my thinking can be compared to Inquisitors of the Inquisitions.

Pfff….go pull someone elses leg why don’t you Steve…you can’t hide you true feelings towards born again Christians.

iggy

Emergent does not mean “all religions lead to one God” unless you understand that all religion is WRONG even “religious” Christianity that denies Jesus and places works as the means of salvation.

So once again, as an “Emergent” I know what I believe and you are stating out right lies about me. Jesus is the ONLY way of salvation. All religion is man’s way of appeasing and angry God while true Christianity is God being please with man by the finished works of Christ. So please stop lying about people like me. Do you not understand that you are doing this to ME and persecuting me with lies and slander while bearing false witness against me with such statements? In the end you only show ignorance and that you would rather love lies and spread them than understand and know truth and reality… so in that sense you are “the worse modernity offers” and I agree…

But why represent modernity at all? It is as bad as Post-modernity and both are contrary to the bible in their raw form… so the emergent call is for people like you to come back to the REAL of the Christian faith and forsake the garbage of modernity and other things that have been allowed to attach themselves to the Christian faith… and that is what you are fighting against. People who desire to worship God as God intended in the purest form. Yes there is experimentation out there and things I am not happy with. Yet, not all is as bad as you represent it and it makes it harder for those like myself to address the issues in-house as I must also address the lies from outside like the ones you are stating over and over without any real facts to back them. That was the power of Nazism BTW. I am not calling you a Nazi, but hoping you see that the tactic of telling a lie so much that it become truth in people eyes is a tactic of Nazism and ultimately Satan… so you are becoming Satan’s pawn by spreading hate and lies.

I know that may sound mean, but it is truth… and if you desire to know God and follow Him then I pray you will take time to pray about that…

I know that most likely you will be angry and now tell me I am Satan’s pawn as “Emergent is blah, blah blah…” but then you will be doing Satan’s bidding once again… SO I PLEAD THE BLOOD OF JESUS WITH YOU THAT YOU PRAY AND SEEK HIS VIEWS ON THIS and not lean on your own understanding.

So far I have proven most things you stated here as a lie that you state about Emergent as when you state something I have stated it is not true as being one myself, also not believing in what you stated…. do you not see that my very existence proves you a liar? That if I am Emergent and do not believe as you state you lie about me? So please stop lying about people like me for your own sake and for Christ Jesus’ sake.

iggy

iggy

BTW Eugene is a friend of mine and you are also lying and misrepresenting him… I really suggest you take a comprehensive reading course to be able understand what you read as you read things and see them and twist them to be what they are not… so either you need to learn how to read with more comprehension or have allowed Satan so so blind you with hate against your brothers and sisters in Christ that you cannot see. If so I ask God to do as He will be it blind you completely or open your eyes so you can see the damage you are doing. Either way I place you in God’s Hands and that He deals with you.

iggy

Discerning The World

Iggy

You said: Emergent does not mean “all religions lead to one God” unless you understand that all religion is WRONG even even “religious” Christianity that denies Jesus and places works as the means of salvation.

I’M FLABBERGHASTED!! WOW!! YOU FINALLY ADMIT THAT ALL RELIGIONS ARE CORRECT AS PER YOUR BELIEFS. Took a while but you got there….AWESOME, Thanks for FINALLY being honest! I know you have tried so hard to wangle your way out of this one, and written in riddles and said one thing that sounded biblical and then another that was a complete contradiction, but FINALLY I am glad (for the purpose of everyone else reading this blog) that you came clean….great stuff!!

You said: “Unless I understand that all religion is wrong?” YES, all religion is WRONG except for Christianity based on the Bible. TRUE CHRISTIANITY, that is. As for your comment “even “religious” Christianity that denies Jesus and places works as the means of salvation.” LOL, you are seriously one special character…you don’t even know what you are saying half the time…but let me answer you in the hope that you GET IT: YES, “even “religious” Christianity that denies Jesus” – becauseeee THEY DENY Jesus Christ…pfffff….really….

*********
So again, as per Emergent thinking, ALL FAITHS can fight a good cause and produce god fruit and COME TOGETHER under the name of their God, which means that the Bible is compatible with all of the religions out there
*********

This will lead into a One Word Religion based on a new type of socialism. Where the human race and creation are now god and we can worship ourselves, God is all and all is in God – we are no different from God, this is why mankind can try create ‘heaven’ on earth. But this can only be a reality when we are all connected (and we can only be connected via occult practices like contemplative prayer, labyrinths etc). Everything and everyone will be equal (socialism) as we all transcend to a god level where we take dominion over earth. We need to go back to the past, they way they did things, because the capitalist system did not work. A new plan needs to be pushed onto the world, the capitalist system replaced with? A One World Religious Socialism.

This is why Iggy you can say ridiculous things like, “all religion are the same as they are wrong” because the Emergent One World Religion will take the best from each Religion and merge them together to make a new religion that is acceptable to the entire WORLD. You can even be an Atheist, where you can deny the existence of any God. But even an Atheist will not deny himself if he finds out that is actually god!

— Panentheism: All (pan) is in God, yet God is transcendent over everything. (Notice the difference between panentheism and pantheism). Some would assume that as everything in the universe (positioned in God) evolves, this unbiblical God would also evolve and grow in knowledge and complexity.
— Pantheism: Everything is God and God is all. Since God is everything and everything is God, everything is sacred and interconnected.

You said in a previous comment: (1 TIm 6:12) It seems you have twisted that verse in such a perverse way and cannot see the damage and harm you do as you fight the fight for God instead of with God in YOUR OWN faith.

REPEAT OF PREVIOUS BIBLE SCRIPRUTE, because you I know you are not reading what I am saying….

1 Timothy 6:1, 3-5, 11-12, 20-21

1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered.
3 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
4 he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
5 and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.
12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
20 Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge,
21 which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith.
Grace be with you.

Ok, firstly the entire context of chapter 6 is actually about greed and money, but let’s put into the context you charge me with. A letter from Paul to Timothy. Timothy was having a bit of a problem with people who refused to listen to the Gospel of Jesus; who want to create their treasures on earth. In doing so, these people were slandering the name of God.
Paul then tells Timothy that if anyone teaches false doctrine and does not agree with sound doctrine and Godly teaching as Jesus Christ COMMANDED; then these people are conceited and understand nothing – this means the Word of God, hence they use little verses here and there to mislead people with their evil plans.

Paul says that corrupt men, who refuse the sound instruction of Jesus Christ to preach genuine teaching, are only interested in controversies and quarrels about ‘words’ that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction. Paul says that these men who refuse sound teaching have NOT Truth in them and think that godliness is when you try to produce good works on earth (which means nothing). They think that trying to create ‘heaven on earth’ makes them special and godly.

Paul then tells Timothy to run away from these people, FLEE THEM, and pursue those who are righteous, who have godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness for they are truly born again of the Holy Spirit. Paul tells Timothy however to NOT STOP FIGHTING the GOOD FIGHT (good fruit) of DEFENGING the FAITH (the true gospel of Jesus Christ – good news).

Timothy is instructed to hold fast onto Jesus’ promise of eternal life when Timothy made a public confession that by accepting Jesus as his Saviour he will hold fast onto the truth and proclaim it at ALL COSTS. But at the same time, STAY AWAY from wicked people who refuse to hear the Truth. (Eternal life is not on this earth, but in Heaven, and this earth WILL not become HEAVEN. Emergent’s along with every other movement/religion out there are trying to create God’s Kingdom on earth (man’s kingdom) which is useless and ungodly)

Paul tells Timothy to take care of the instructions that Jesus Christ entrusted to him. To not find himself ensnared in godless chatter with people who OPPOSE the Word of God. Who come along with NEW knowledge that is completely false (like good fruit that is actually bad fruit). Timothy (and ALL genuine Christians today) are NOT to try build relationships with those who are no longer following the gospel of Jesus Christ, but have wondered off the track and now follow new teaching/false teaching, which sounds biblical, but it not.

****

So Iggy…as we can see your perverted interpretation of scripture is false, and as we can see the Word of God tells born again Christians to not engage in godless chatter with people who refuse to accept the truth. In fact we are not to engage with people who oppose the Word of God in any way. This includes those who quote verses from the bible as they try desperately to back up their NEW Kingdom knowledge and accept ideas from all religions around the world as well as being compatible to the Bible –which GOD also COMMANDS you NOT to do- because if you do, you deny Him.

Hmmm…in fact, this ends my chat with you. You have the Word of God, the Bible. There is no excuse for you to follow people who have corrupt minds, who hide behind coffee and hugs.

God speaks very clearly His message to you, via the Bible. Choose to follow what God says and stop twisting His word to suit your friend’s ideologies, or choose to follow your friends and the world. The bridges you try to build are built on false teaching and will crumble.

Discerning The World

Iggy

Where did I misrepresent him and lie about him? Oh wait….I didn’t just like you have lied about everything else…and can’t remember what you said where and when. Is lying part of your baskets of ‘good’ fruits the Emergents are presenting to the world…

>> If so I ask God to do as He will be it blind you completely

Woahhhhhhhhhhhhhh you have the power to ask God to do that? Wow. Must be that Emergent god-being in you that can say something like that. Oh hang on. As per New Age when you ascended to a higher level you will be able to see through God’s eyes. Which means you will have transcended to that god-level spoken so much about at Amahoro. Where y’all can be little gods in your man made kingdom on earth…

Opps I keep forgetting what I said at the end of Timothy 6 that you wanted me to read and explain to you: REPEAT OF PREVIOUS BIBLE SCRIPRUTE….1 Timothy 6:1, 3-5, 11-12, 20-21

Read through comments..I think I have now posted this three times now. Not going to post the whole thing again.

iggy

I see you are willing to twist everything I said to meet your own twisted and perverted pleasure…

So you think all religions are good? As I said all religion are the same as they are wrong… even Christianity if presented as works and as a vehicle of hate as you are doing. You have proven me right in every comment about you and also have shown you lack of knowledge of the bible you claim as believing so strongly…

So in a very sad way I will say thanks… and continue to pray for you that you find your way out of religion and into the arms of Jesus…. Jesus came to give us Live and not the religion you are preaching. Please, in the Name of Jesus stop abusing the bible and Jesus and using them as worldly tools of hate.

I wish you well on your journey and pray you find the Living Christ Jesus and that He will dwell in your heart for all eternity.

iggy

Discerning The World

Iggy

YOU SAID TO ME. “unless you understand that all religion is WRONG”

See you lying again… I did NOT in any way insinuate and never have during this entire conversation that all religions are correct….YOU AGREED THAT THEY ARE, and and then you go and say it again with: “As I said all religion are the same as they are wrong…” Bwwahahahahahhahahaha on my. And Nic backs you up on that one, with his latest comment.

REPEAT OF PREVIOUS BIBLE SCRIPRUTE: 1 Timothy 6:1, 3-5, 11-12, 20-21

iggy

Edited by DTW because:

Iggy refuses to read and quote people accurated and insists on lying. Therefore comments will now be deleted. You have had ample space to air your views here.

itodyaso

Edited by DTW because:

Iggy refuses to read and quote people accurated and insists on lying. Therefore comments will now be deleted. You have had ample space to air your views here.

Amanda

Iggy

I am sure that everybody here are sick of me quoting Roger’s actual words. Why don’t you set the example by reading my previous replies to you and demonstrate the reading comprehension standards that you advocate.

One more time. Roger said:

So your hope for Muslims is what, exactly? What about those ones who won’t become Christians? You wash your hands of them and don’t care what happens to them.

and

The Emergent teaching (whatever that is) is not about all faiths leading to one God – I don’t know where you get that. I don’t know enough about the internal tensions with Islam and Buddhism to comment about them, but I know to judge them on the fruit they lead to, and one of the fruits of the spirit is peace. If a religion does not lead to peace, the Holy Spirit is not working within it. If your Christian faith does not lead you to be a peacemaker, same thing.

I asked him:

How do you justify from the Bible your belief that the Holy Spirit is at work in other religions?

Can you recall what your response to my one line question was? Why don’t you use your discernment on Roger’s statements and tell us why my question to him provoked you to such an extent?

Amanda

Iggy

What do you make of emergent/emerging/merging Reverend Cobus van Wyngaard’s writing on his blog: the day universalism knocked on my door:

This [universalism] was a doctrine to be feared, some had to go to hell to legitimize the God we prayed to (if you find yourself within this approach, and distance yourself from fundamentalism, wouldn’t you please leave a better understanding in the comment section).

Some had to go to hell to legitimize the God we prayed to?

Am I willing to also say that those Lutherans [German soldiers] would go to the metaphysical place called heaven as well while their Jewish victims go the Dante’s hell?

Can you answer that question from the Bible, Iggy?

I don’t think Universalism is the answer, so please don’t quote me for saying so. But I do think the system that I had (and whether this was an accurate understanding of Reformed doctrine is highly debateble) wasn’t addequate, and that it has to be modified.

I added the bold for fun.

This is some of the questions that we really need to look at somewhat more seriously.

Ds. Cobus is a fully ordained minister in the DRC in South Africa and he does not except that the unbelieving Jew will go to hell and the Christian soldier will go to heaven. What do you say, Iggy?

Discerning The World

>> SO I PLEAD THE BLOOD OF JESUS WITH YOU

No No….your ‘Jesus’ is not MY JESUS CHRIST the Son of God. For you deny Jesus Christ over and over and over again in this entire thread. And your friends back you up by saying similar things.

Discerning The World

Nah…no one can twist what you say Igyy; “all religion are the same as they are wrong”

Also no one can twist what Nic said; “Matthew Fox believes that the persepective of “panentheism” – God is IN all, all is In God, is the one which will endure. In fact, he states it is preferable to be an atheist than a “theist”.

How about this one from Nic: “I know there will be those who will disagree, but as I see it now, to quote an age old adage, “God is a circle whose centre is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere.”

Or this one from Nic: “I want you to know that the carrot and stick – the promise of heaven and the threat of hell – is not the only way of seeing the gospel.”

****
I think y’all need to have coffee more often, and plan how to keep your story straight.
****

Eugene Roberts

No No….your ‘Jesus’ is not MY JESUS CHRIST the Son of God. For you deny Jesus Christ over and over and over again in this entire thread. And your friends back you up by saying similar things.

WOW!!! :roll: WOW!!!

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