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Depopulation, Concentration Camps, Coffins and Guillotines

7DTW AuthorIcon75 Depopulation, Concentration Camps, Coffins and Guillotines

Terrible things are on the way in the USA and in other countries around the world.  Pray Jesus Christ comes soon.

Obama’s new DEPOPULATION Policy:

Then there are those ominous FEMA concentration camps (an estimated +/- 600 in total)

Then there are the millions of COFFIN liners big enough to fix 3 to 4 people:

THEN THERE ARE THE GUILLOTINES!!!
See how the above coffins are used in conjunction with the guillotines – NOTE this below video is VERY graphic and contains disturbing footage.

pixel Depopulation, Concentration Camps, Coffins and Guillotines

73 comments to Depopulation, Concentration Camps, Coffins and Guillotines

  • Larrys

    This is all very serious stuff. We are truly in the time that the Scripture speaks of. You are NOt to fear man. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. It is only a breath away, we step into the Kingdom. We must get the message out to the young and old. Jesus is coming! Get it! Praise His HOLY Name.

  • Burning Lamp

    Oh boy! Where do I start?

    I have listened to the video of Pamela Schiffer’s comments and have read them. I no longer follow Alex Jones and do not consider him a credible source for Christians. I have no doubt whatsoever that Pamela is a believer and a sister in Christ. Yes, no doubt she is telling the truth and has the best of intentions.

    However, she says she does not want to instill fear. Ironically, she is doing the very thing she doesn’t intend.

    The core of the issue it seems to me is a correct understanding of God’s plan/prophecy for this world, dispensational theology and eschatology. I see so much confusion amongst even Christians who are fundamental in other areas of the faith.

    Pamela obviously does not believe in eternal security of the believer, a precious doctrine that has to be tossed in the trash if one believes the Church, the Bride of Christ is going to go through the Tribulation.

    The Body of Christ is made up of people who are all at different places in their walk with Christ. Some are new, tender believers, some are mature and faithful, others are deceived and walking in carnality. The Bible says that we will not be tested beyond what we can endure. Yes, there are believers who are martyred for their faith even today and there are the heroes of the past of whom we can read in Foxe’s Book of Martyrs. But there has never been a world-wide persecution and true believers will be removed before this happens. Noah and his family were safely in the ark before the floods came. So it will be with the true Church when all hell breaks out and evil is unleashed as never before.

    We are a Church in apostasy, one of the signs of the end times. The only hope for us is in Christ Jesus who promised to come for His Bride in the Rapture. We cannot possibly prepare ourselves for a holocaust. We can’t earn our salvation to begin with and we can’t keep it by any acts of courage.

    Also, articles like this make us think of ourselves instead of reaching out and sharing the Gospel with the lost who are headed for an eternity of suffering in hell. Not a watered-down false gospel but the true Gospel speaking the Word of God, not the reasoning of man. How many Christians are equipped by their pastors to do this? How many are simply pew potatoes, hunkering down, or joining political causes, tea parties, etc. entertaining a false hope for a radical change in government that will honor Christ?

    I am not afraid of martial law or the guillotines. This concerns the unsaved who are redeemed after the persecution starts and all hell breaks loose and the wrath of God begins. They are the Tribulation Saints-those of the Church Age are not in that number.
    This will be the time of Jacob’s Trouble, the time when the Lord returns to dealing with His chosen people, the Jews. A rightly dividing of the Word will reveal this truth. There is so much false theology going around these days and there is much confusion and dueling “Bible bullets”, the Word being taken out of context, etc. Those who have once believed in the Blessed Hope have abandoned it.

    Debs, my dear friend, I mean no disrespect because I know you care about the lost and the true Gospel, but purveyors of these type of messages would do much better by being a walking, talking soul-winner, one who gives the only hope we have no matter what happens.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Larrys

    Very serious stuff. We can not turn our eyes away from JESUS for HE IS OUR SAVOIR and no matter what happens HE WILL LOOK AFTER US even in our darkest times.

    If people out there are not praying, they should; now is the time to get on their knees and SINCERELY accept Jesus Christ into their life – everything the Bible said would come true HAS COME TRUE and what is still to come WILL COME.

    PEOPLE MUST WAKE UP! They despise Jesus for NO reason what-so-ever, except to live the life they want to life without having to feel guilty. Well the NWO does not care about how you live your live either – in fact they don’t care about your life, period! And worst of all, they will burn in the same hell you will burn in for rejecting the only one who can SAVE YOU RIGHT NOW – Jesus Christ.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    BL

    I understand :) I do not follow Alec Jones or Jesse Venture for that matter (they are not credible sources for Christians – I totally agree) – the same goes for Pamela. The only reason I posted this was to show people what is going on out there – an infomercial. That’s all. I wanted their facts, not their theology. And people will post comments and people will read the comments to, and they will read your comment and see exactly what, when and how. If someone comes to this site and the Holy Spirit led them here, they will ask the right questions and they will get the right answers :) I didn’t have time today to do a long article, I just wanted a quick – ‘this is what is happening people – wake up’ kinda article. From there someone can click links to a hundred other articles on my website or this one: 09 – How to Become a Child of God

  • Hester

    I think this is a good reminder as I think sometimes we are so distracted by our own politics, (Julius Malema, et al) our work, families, etc. that we for a moment take our eyes off the rest of the world. Of course, not being ignorant but days become weeks and weeks months, the time goes so quickly. So, when we are faced with this, we can also remind ourselves that Jesus said in John 14:27 that we must not let our hearts be troubled and we must not be afraid. So, whether this is truth or maybe also here the 80/20 rule applies, we do not know, it is still good to remind ourselves why we should put our faith in Jesus Christ alone.

  • Burning Lamp

    Debs. thanks for the clarification especially on Alex Jones who it isn’t clear where he is spiritually and also Pamela. She professes to be a Christian and no doubt influences many believers. I know Christians who are all wrapped up in Conspiracy Theories and their eyes are on man and not on the Lord. I do hope that this will be a lead-in for some folks to get on the straight and narrow and concentrate on the true threats – false teachings and wolves that are ravaging the flocks.

    Many blessings to ya!!!

    Thanks for all the great stuff you post and all your faithfulness and hard work.

  • Warren

    Deborah, just a quick one unrelated to this article but I’m sure you might have picked up – the comments section on the left side of the screen – some of the links that are quoted are going right across the screen and causing difficulty when reading the main article or the comments. Just thought Id let you know.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Warren

    Thanks dude :) I just sorted out the problem.

  • Lourens

    Burning Lamp wrote:

    Also, articles like this make …….

    Ditto! I agree whole heartedly BL… And I also understand why Deb’s has posted this as her comment below yours made it clear! ;-)

  • Sibusiso Cele

    Debs!,this is very painful.When we build our own religion “so we think”(because in reality we don’t have a choice) its either Jehovah/Jesus or Satan/Lucifer and drive away the author of Religion, Jehovah/Jesus… we go astray and those who have more power than others they start to be dictators forcing their ideas on others, those who know better & refuse to be told what to do when they know what is good to done…its a ‘follow us! or die’.The “wine of Babylon” must we all be drunk by the teachings of demons/doctrines of devils?..in order to be safe ?.I don’t think so.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Sibs (that’s what I’m gonna call you for short ;)

    It is, BUT Jesus tells us to REJOICE when we see these things because His return is imminent.

    Here is something I want you to read: There is No God like Jehovah …

    Then you must please download and read Prof Malan’s book :)

  • Eddy

    Allo Allo i cannot help but respond to these posting.I am a believer and also an agent of conspiracy dissemination.@BL Satan is in a conspiracy against Christ,the rise of the NWO is part of it we as believers must be aware of the enemy and his tricks(bible says so)people live in sheeple land and absorb TV.I have told an unsaved client about these horrendous conspiracy and also the Gospel-the gospel he has poopooed,but as he does research in conspiracy i see the change in his demeanor he will soon ask how can he escape this -then back to the gospel.
    Yup Alex Jones is what we call a coadjutator,Jesse i do not know,but they still make great u-tubes.
    No one preaches reality from the pulpit it is don’t look you won’t worry- yes the Gospel is all we need and Gods grace is sufficient.Jesus also exposed the charlatans at the temple.Rick Joiner?warren all part of the conspiracy
    Glad to see activity here again

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Eddy

    I have a little story to back up just what you have said. My brother was not interested in hearing the gospel of Jesus until I gave him a video on the NWO – I told him that the producers of the video were not Christian (all of a sudden he was willing to listen). He watched the video and his eyes nearly popped out his head. Since then he knows more about what is going on out there than me. The GOOD NEWS is, He started to ask my mother questions about Jesus :) Can you believe it. So my mom has been speaking to him about the Gospel. Now he is trying to get his girlfriend saved. I kid you not. I had been trying to speak to my brother forever about Jesus and he was just not interested in hearing anything I had to say, he would get angry and shut me up. Now he quietly listens to me and thanks me for telling him. It’s a miracle.

    PS, yes I r back :)

  • Lourens

    Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Eddy
    I have a little story to back up just what you have said. My brother was not interested in hearing the gospel of Jesus until I gave him a video on the NWO – I told him that the producers of the video were not Christian (all of a sudden he was willing to listen). He watched the video and his eyes nearly popped out his head. Since then he knows more about what is going on out there than me. The GOOD NEWS is, He started to ask my mother questions about Jesus :) Can you believe it. So my mom has been speaking to him about the Gospel. Now he is trying to get his girlfriend saved. I kid you not. I had been trying to speak to my brother forever about Jesus and he was just not interested in hearing anything I had to say, he would get angry and shut me up. Now he quietly listens to me and thanks me for telling him. It’s a miracle.
    PS, yes I r back :)

    Praise The Lord Jesus Christ for that Deb’s… A LOT of people will NEVER listen UNTIL they are first confronted with things such as the ‘conspiracy theory’ stuff… Especially men… suppose men have a “mucho” attitude to get past when it comes to Christ therefore GLOBAL DOOM seems to do the thing to get them to open up to Jesus Christ… ;-)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Lourens

    >> A LOT of people will NEVER listen UNTIL they are first confronted with things such as the ‘conspiracy theory’ stuff

    Very true. It’s like a big slap in the face with a wet fish! LOL. And you are right, it broke down the mucho attitude of my brother, who realized that he can’t stop this, that no one can, and that the Bible was right all along and maybe just maybe he DOES needs Jesus.

  • Burning Lamp

    I think we have to make some distinctions and clarifications here about just exactly what are “conspiracies”.It calls for much wisdom. There are TRUE conspiracies that are exposed by level-headed folks, some Christians, some not. Those can be useful to open the eyes and put a chink in the armor.

    However, there are those that find a demon under every rock and give more glory to the devil than point people to Christ. They are put out by people with bananas for brains. They lead people down bunny trails that lead to dead ends, often over a cliff.

    For example, I saw a Christian website that promoted Texx Marrs, Alex Jones Info Wars, and a video stating that 9/11 was an inside job. That is NOT useful.

    The bottom line we must remember is that in the final analysis, it is the Word of God that convicts the heart, not the words of man. When seeking to lead someone to Christ, stick to the verses in the Bible so the Holy Spirit can convict the heart.

    One would think that just listening to the evening news should be enough to strike terror into the hearts of people to convince them they need help to get through this world and prepare for the next. Yes, be wise and use the right tools – some need a wake-up call and then they will see their need and listen to the Word of God.

  • Eddy

    Fantastic stuff,so the word says ‘mens hearts shall fail them for fear”Nothing like a good study and some analytically thinking into “who’ manipulates the markets and ‘why’Satan does not need money but inspires the greed of the power elite who then control the money through debt intervention and so robs you the citizen- fear -suicide- death – Answer knowledge Jesus saves -comply discerning spirit act wise, no more fear.
    The u tube above u posted about the Guillotines yo yo yo yo better be saved!Conspiracy is the meat of Reverlations

  • Burning Lamp

    One thing I might add – some people need to have their britches scared off to get their attention. Others are hurting and need to know the mercy, love and grace of God and what He did for us. Their hearts are tender, the others have a shell that needs to be dracked for the Light to come in. Different strokes for different folks, and yet they ALL need the pure Word of God to seal the deal.

    And it is good for us as believers to be aware of the stuff that is going on to remind us that our God is faithful and His plan will go forward. We need not fear the future, but we are to be watchpeople to warn others. Not to instill fear, but to remind them of the Blessed Hope and how we are to live our lives in such a wicked world.

  • Christopher Henderson

    Burning Lamp,

    I am a Christian doing my best to live as Lord Jesus wants me to. I am also a conspiracy theorist (hopefully the two aren’t mutually exclusive). I agree with you that we must always emphasize and never lose sight of God’s message of hope!

    God’s Word states that those who are friends to the world are enemies to Him. Does this mean that we aren’t to oppose destructive schemes such as depopulation, mind control, and false flag terrorism? As I’m sure you will agree, the NWO who is behind these things acts in the spirit of the father of lies. Therefore, by extension, depopulation for example which according to numerous reports is one of the main goals of the NWO, must be a wicked and diabolical goal. And indeed, insofar as NWO front organizations who want to “save the planet” by “depopulating” the Earth advocate doing away with people en masse, they ignore the fact that God gave His people (all 7 billion of us) dominion over the Earth. In other words, although no sane person would want to see the Earth despoiled, in the book of Genesis God makes clear that people take priority over the environment. Also, there is the Sixth Commandment, which clearly denies the power of life and death to Earthly authorities. (God being the ultimate authority, of course, reserves the right to do as He pleases–and rightly so.)

    As Christians, are we not to oppose the devil, his followers, and their wicked ways? Are we not to expose satan’s works and reprove them? Or in your opinion, should Christians not concern themselves with trying to overcome what would appear to be gross injustices such as the deliberate inducement of famine in Africa–because to do otherwise would make us “friends to the world?” My friend, I am not trying to mock you–I am genuinely in need of a constructive conversation with a fellow Christian to help me sort some things out. I do NOT want to be the kind of friend to the world that puts me at odds with the Lord; and I fervently hope that my research of and opposition to the NWO doesn’t put me in this dangerous category.

    Thanks for listening and God bless you! If you would be so kind as to comment, I would greatly appreciate it. Anyone else who would like to respond, please feel free to as well.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Christopher

    >> I do NOT want to be the kind of friend to the world that puts me at odds with the Lord; and I fervently hope that my research of and opposition to the NWO doesn’t put me in this dangerous category.

    Jesus said, WATCH And PRAY. So I watch and I warn others (as terrible as some of these things are) and I pray. I don’t read anywhere in the bible that we must dig a hole and put our heads in it.

    >> As Christians, are we not to oppose the devil, his followers, and their wicked ways? Are we not to expose satan’s works and reprove them? Or in your opinion, should Christians not concern themselves with trying to overcome what would appear to be gross injustices such as the deliberate inducement of famine in Africa–because to do otherwise would make us “friends to the world?

    As for “friends of this world”: we are in this world not of this world, that meaning partakers of it’s sin. Is a wrong to use the words “friends of this world” if one is researching conspiracy theory, etc , because watching what is going on in the world is not parting of it’s sin.

  • Christopher Henderson

    Thanks for the response, Deborah. Your interpretation of what the Bible means by “friend of the world” makes a lot of sense. After all, in both the Old and New Testaments God repeatedly calls upon the faithful not only to repent of sins/worldly ways, but also to be of service to others. I believe that by raising awareness of the Illuminati’s diabolical depopulation schemes (plans that are actually quite stupid as well from what I understand, given the ongoing global trend known as demographic winter), researchers such as yourself are helping our beleaguered brethren in North America, Africa, and other places. And of course, given the sad state of the mainstream media–TV- and print-based, as well as online–Christians and other interested parties must delve into the arena derogatorily labeled “conspiracy theories.” Therefore to be of service to others, as God clearly wants us to be, and to be appropriately watchful, we must overcome our complacency, conduct research, and do our best to win souls to Christ using all available resources (the primary one being the Word). It looks like you are doing a terrific job in all of these categories. Thank you!

    Deborah, I know I shouldn’t worry because in the end Lord Jesus will make everything right, but after perceiving what appears to be a synthetic, Illuminati-staged, end times scheme–complete with man-made earthquakes, famines, hurricanes, monsoons, and other atrocities–I can’t help but feel despair. Although many people (Christians, those of other faiths, and the secular-minded) seem to be gaining awareness of the current generation of weather-modifying superweapons, and said weapons’ ability to mimic Biblical prophecy (I myself only recently learned of these capabilities, being a little slow on the uptake), there seems to be a divergence of opinion as to whether or not the recent crop of “natural” catastrophes actually qualifies as fulfillment of Revelation prophecy. This is a vital point in my opinion, for if these devastating events were/are actually brought about and sanctioned by the Holy Spirit, then we as the faithful would be hard-pressed to oppose them. On the other hand, seeing as the controllers of the NWO hate the Lord, and that their destruction is of the scientific/technological variety (as opposed to supernatural destruction authored by YHWH/Yeshua and their Holy Spirit), one could certainly argue that we are faith-bound to oppose them.

    To the latter perspective, I just read an article by Fritz Springmeier called “The Armageddon Plot” in which Fritz describes in detail the advantages the luciferian Illuminati seek to derive from mimicking/deliberately inducing Biblical prophecy. In a sense, the NWO seems to be using Revelation as a kind of blueprint with which to solidify their global control–and of course in so doing pathetically attempt to exalt themselves higher than the Most High. (I say pathetic because as we know, satan’s power is miniscule compared to God’s. In fact, even if the NWO had enough power to atomize every planet in the solar system, and even the sun, their power would still pale in comparison to that of the Creator of the entire Universe.) Although Fritz’ article is controversial in some regards, I find his rallying cry for Christians to stand up against NWO tyranny both effective and thought-provoking. If you get a chance, Deborah, and you don’t mind looking up the article and giving me your thoughts on it (assuming you haven’t read it already), by all means please do. This would be much, much appreciated.

    OK, well, I think I’ve typed enough for now. I didn’t mean to talk your ear off! Like I said in my previous post, I’ve been in need of discussing these kinds of issues for a while now. While I really want to bring up some of them with my pastor, I’m kind of afraid I’ll freak him out. However, for all I know he may be open to discussing faith-related items that involve conspiracy research. We’ll just have to see…In the meantime, thanks again for listening! After getting that stuff off my chest I am feeling a little more optimistic. Hope to hear from you soon, and God bless!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Christopher

    >> I know I shouldn’t worry because in the end Lord Jesus will make everything right, but after perceiving what appears to be a synthetic, Illuminati-staged, end times scheme.

    You should not worry, because you have the BLESSED HOPE to look FORWARD too. Jesus promised us that we will escape God’s wrath during the Tribulation by way of being “caught up”. I look to Jesus always and even when times seem tough, just keep looking at HIM and HIM only. Never take your eyes of Him.

    >> To the latter perspective, I just read an article by Fritz Springmeier called “The Armageddon Plot” in which Fritz describes in detail the advantages the luciferian Illuminati seek to derive from mimicking/deliberately inducing Biblical prophecy.

    Do they really think they are mimicking biblical prophecy (trying to create a fake end times scenario) or are they just playing out the end times as normal because God forknew they would try copy the Bible? ;) So in essence, their fake plans are not fake, it’s the real deal. And now you have people out there sowing disinformation telling people it’s not the tribulation – when in fact it IS.

    >> there seems to be a divergence of opinion as to whether or not the recent crop of “natural” catastrophes actually qualifies as fulfillment of Revelation prophecy. This is a vital point in my opinion, for if these devastating events were/are actually brought about and sanctioned by the Holy Spirit, then we as the faithful would be hard-pressed to oppose them. On the other hand, seeing as the controllers of the NWO hate the Lord, and that their destruction is of the scientific/technological variety (as opposed to supernatural destruction authored by YHWH/Yeshua and their Holy Spirit), one could certainly argue that we are faith-bound to oppose them.

    Of course yes they are biblical prophecy fulfilled, it does not have to be a supernatural event in order for something to fulfill biblical prophecy. Satan is in control of this world, but Satan can’t create or destroy, he can only give man the knowledge to create and destroy using advanced science and technology that will be used on his behalf, and that is exactly what is happening :)

    You are more than welcome to discuss anything with me.

    In these last days you need to cling to Jesus more than ever, hold onto Him, make your relationship as strong as ever, pray, pray and pray some more.

  • Christopher Henderson

    Dear Deborah,

    Thank you so much for your kind words, and for your willingness to interact with me. As you pointed out, there is always hope when we have faith in Jesus! Whether this means that we are fortunate enough to be reunited with Him upon the Rapture, or later, upon our enduring on Earth through the Tribulation period, if we are strong in our faith (I am still weak but getting stronger!) all of God’s promises will be fulfilled. Good will prevail!

    You are absolutely right in asserting that God could very well have planned in advance for the NWO to copy the Bible as Mr. Springmeier and others have claimed (with Jesus of course emerging triumphant regardless!). That is certainly possible. As for Fritz’ views with respect to the Rapture, I am still trying to obtain a solid Biblical understanding that will help me better evaluate where he’s coming from in this regard—and more importantly, what the Bible truly says about the Rapture. From what I understand of Springmeier’s perspective, I don’t think he’s arguing that the Tribulation period isn’t already here. And of course, although I believe that he is sincere in what he says, that doesn’t automatically mean he is correct. Putting aside matters such as his critique of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, what I like about his article is that he implores Christians to stand up against the NWO.

    But is it really proper for us to abhor the NWO? Or in other words, and as Springmeier implicitly asks in his article, is opposing the NWO during these end times equivalent to opposing God? Like I said in my previous post, if “depopulation,” mind control, and the other items on the NWO agenda are things that God truly wants to happen (as punishment for the wicked as per Revelation—whether technology-based or otherwise), who are we to object? This is where I am still feeling very confused. My heart tells me to strenuously oppose these happenings—but is this my own ignorance and perhaps even wickedness leading me astray? Or am I reading the situation correctly? It is hard for me, Deborah, not to root against schemes (e.g. depopulation via man-induced disasters) that, whether allegedly Bible-copied or not, seem to emanate from the corrupt minds of God-hating occultists…

    Moving on to the technology itself, it seems somewhat neutral, and as you noted can be used for good or ill. (Like pretty much any other technology, from television to nuclear power to the Internet itself.) For all of the destructive power of EMF-based “earthquake machines,” from what I understand they can also be used to bathe segments of the population in beneficial frequencies that promote feelings of peace and restful alertness (as opposed to the dumbing-down, mind-controlling effects that result from the addition of sodium fluoride to drinking water). From some of the literature I’ve read on the subject, EMF frequencies when properly used on individuals can cure cancer. And finally, for national defense purposes, it’s my understanding that a HAARP-type device could conceivably put up a huge dome-shaped field that would effectively dud any incoming missiles. Pretty cool stuff!

    My perspective on technology is that it’s not magic; and when used properly can be a blessing. As I hope you will agree, all wisdom—whether in the form of positive technological advancements, philosophies that lead to beneficial social reform (such as the US Constitution), the arts, or other forms—comes from God.

    But if we are in the Tribulation period (which appears to be the case), and the time has arrived for the world to be judged and the wicked punished, does that mean that the seemingly positive uses of HAARP would be utilized in defiance of God’s will? If so, this would seem to indicate that HAARP’s destructive capabilities are actually good–which is counter-intuitive for me. And while the Bible states that Christ wants everyone to accept Him or face His wrath (which according to Revelation will include much destruction), I can’t help but wonder if that’s what’s really happening here. Again, Deborah, I’m having some trouble and could use your counsel. The fact that the Lord hasn’t yet directly answered my yearning for discernment in this area tells me that I need to consult His Word and brethren such as yourself, and as you stated, keep praying. Thank you so much for your help.

  • Burning Lamp

    Christopher, I hope you listen to what Deborah is telling you. Dabbling in Conspiracy theories is a very slippery slope. For instance, you mention Fritz Springmeir. There is much confusion surrounding this man. http://www.illuminati-news.com/wes070906.htm

    Christians have much better things to do with their time then to dig into areas of darkness. These things are not edifying and they do not build our faith. As believers our focus should be plumbing the depths of the Word of God and keeping our eyes on Christ, the Author and Finisher of our faith. God knows all and these things are not needful for us to know and they are mere speculation anyway.

    No one, no one can subvert or prevent or counterfeit anything of God unless He permits it. And the key is to trust Him and learn more of Him and focus on going about doing His work rather than giving our attention to dark cospiracies, blood lines, etc. As to earthquakes or natural disasters, the Bible predicts them and that is all that matters.

    I hope you will back away from the conspiracy stuff and make a deep study of God’s Word and devote yourself to prayer.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Christopher

    Last night I thought about your comment and I released I should have added some extra info but I see now that you have spoken about what I actually wanted to speak about lol.

    Understanding the bible, i.e., understanding theology plays a major part in sussing out the good guys with the facts from the bad guys with disinformation. Springmeier is a bad buy with disinformation. His theology is wrong, he is what I would call a false teacher. If your foundation is not stable, if your house is built on sand when the storms come, it will be washed away, but if your house is built on rock when the storms come your house will stand? Do you understand?

    So when I read info from Springmeier I immediately know that he is speaking utter nonsense because I know my Bible and I have spent a couple of years studying eschatology (the study of the end times) and I know what has to happen in the world, what has to come first before the Tribulation starts. I can confirm that we are NOT in the tribulation. We are close yes, but we are not in in the 7 years.

    >> But is it really proper for us to abhor the NWO? Or in other words, and as Springmeier implicitly asks in his article, is opposing the NWO during these end times equivalent to opposing God? Like I said in my previous post, if “depopulation,” mind control, and the other items on the NWO agenda are things that God truly wants to happen (as punishment for the wicked as per Revelation—whether technology-based or otherwise), who are we to object? This is where I am still feeling very confused. My heart tells me to strenuously oppose these happenings—but is this my own ignorance and perhaps even wickedness leading me astray? Or am I reading the situation correctly?

    As Christians our commission is to spread the gospel only, no where in the bible do you see the disciples going out and rallying and picketing against the government of the time, and the same of us. The Bible tells us we are to hate evil, and of course we oppose them – this is why you warn others. Abhorring the NWO is in no way going against God’s plan because God is not in control of this world, Satan is. God knows what is going to happen but He did NOT PLAN IT to be like this. This is a terrible false teaching. God’s FOREKNOWLEDGE of things to come does not mean it is one big game and He planned it this way. Yes He is is Victorious because HE IS GOD and Satan was doomed from the beginning. God does have ultimate control over Satan though so Satan can’t just do as he pleases.

    I have plenty articles on my website on the Rapture and a gazillion comments where I answer peoples questions. Understanging the rapture is not about looking for 1 word in the bible and basing an entire theology around it. You 1st need to understand that there are different dispensations in the bible- we are currently int he church dispensation, there are also 2 different groups of people in the bible, the Jews and the Gentiles and soon Gods focus will revert back to Israel and His people and Gods focus will no longer be on the Gentiles and the church dispensation will end. When this happens the rapture will occur (just before the Tribulation starts). If you do not separate the church from Israel you have a major theological flaw in your belief system and it changes everything and you join the rest of the world including the Roman Catholic Church who expect a rapture after the Tribulation. Rapture-types occurred throughout the bible when God helped believers escape His wrath and he promises to do it again in the last days. There is no ways the true Church will be able to escape the the anti-Christ reign of terror and the WRATH of God during the Tribulation, so God has to rescue us out of this world. When the bible speaks about people running to the Mountains, it is speaking about Jews in Israel only – NOT bride of Christ. Just as everyone laughed at Noah building his ark, we who believe in the Rapture are being laughed at too – the number of people who believe in a rapture are like a drop in the ocean.

    This article speaks about the false Christianity we see today they are called Dominionists –
    Dispensations:
    This explains why the Church is NOT Israel –
    This article links to the one above – because the Church is NOT Israel and explains that Joel 2 and Acts is for Israel not the Church. http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/01/your-sons-and-your-daughters-will-prophesy-but-not-yet/
    Rapture.
    Rapture.
    Rapture. http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/01/06/the-rapture-an-article-to-knock-your-socks-off/
    The tribulation
    Also just throw this one in for interest sake: The Biblical truth about the Nephillim – http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2011/09/06/the-truth-about-the-sons-of-god-the-daughters-of-men-and-the-nephilim/

    I know this is a lot of reading but please you need to get into HIS WORD and understand some theology FIRST, build your foundation on Jesus Christ. Pray and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance and let Him guide you only.

    Also listen to Burning Lamp, she is cool and knows her stuff! :)

  • Christopher Henderson

    Dear Burning Lamp,

    Thank you for your kind words of advice, which are well-taken. I like to think I am aware of the dangerous aspects of conspiracy theories–and, believe it or not, am still somewhat ambivalent attitude toward them. Without a doubt, there is much disinformation out there in “conspiracy land;” that said, some of the investigators I have gravitated toward recently (including Barry Chamish) are in my opinion trustworthy.

    As for Fritz Springmeier, I hope I didn’t give the impression that I view his words and opinions as “infallible.” Only God, and His Word, are truly infallible. (It is my own lack of discernment abilities/lack of understanding that has led to my not being clear about important concepts expressed in the Word such as the Rapture.) Although in my posts here I have put forth Springmeier’s article for the purposes of discussion, again, please don’t take this to mean that I subscribe without reservation to his perspective. I can think of at least two major not-Rapture-related areas in which Springmeier’s conclusions appear to be incorrect: 1) his identification of the alleged “most powerful bloodlines”–which from the additional readings I’ve done seems to be way off, and 2) his adherence to the theory of Jewish/Zionist control of the NWO (when I believe that in this regard especially, all roads lead to Rome–or at least to a certain city-state that resides therein). With these two errors in mind, it is obvious that in other matters (including the pre-Tribulation Rapture), Mr. Springmeier could very well be mistaken.

    I agree with you that there is only so much the Lord wants us to know, and that engaging in speculation can be and often is counterproductive. I don’t blame you for being concerned about my sometimes-obsessive focus on conspiracy theories (although rest assured, said focus is NOT done to the exclusion of prayer, meditation, and the reading of God’s Word). By way of explanation, I can only say that my particular personal circumstances have prompted this conspiratorial focus. Without getting too much into details that you would undoubtedly regard with alarm and perhaps suspicion, let’s just say that my first exposure to Fritz Springmeier resulted from my frantic research into an area that is personally significant to me–the same concept I have mentioned in passing in my other posts: mind control. Perhaps in due time this is something I can talk about in more detail.

    Burning Lamp, while I know that I need to increase my knowledge of God through His Word, and pray more often than I do, I also feel that faith is meant to be lived–that is, to be fused into one’s overall lifestyle. And with God’s help, I feel I have already made progress in this area: more specifically, I’ve incorporated His Commandments and the mindset He wants me to have into my personal interactions. From here, I have much additional work to do, however, because thanks to the strange and painful personal circumstances I’ve alluded to, most of the endeavors or one-time callings I involved myself in prior to my being born again in 2009 (work, school, creative efforts, etc.) are more or less closed off. While yes, this does give me a lot more time to read God’s Word, the extra time is problematic in other ways. I suppose the best way I can sum up my response thus far to the massive changes that have taken place in the last several years is this: more than anything else, I’ve sought the Truth (hopefully this doesn’t sound too cliched!). The most important way I’ve gone about doing so is to accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior and look to His inspiration and Word to help me conduct other truth-seeking efforts you may not find as worthwhile, including conspiracy research. As to the latter truth-seeking category, believe me, I often find myself wondering why I spend so much time on conspiracy theories! This is something I grapple with everyday.

    At any rate, Burning Lamp, thanks again for your response (which I will do my best to heed), God bless you, and by all means, let’s continue our dialog.

  • Christopher Henderson

    Dear Deborah,

    Thanks for all of your valuable insights, and for the links you’ve most kindly provided. I will make sure to follow up on this information.

    Hopefully if you’ve had a chance to read my reply to Burning Lamp, you can see that I’m not necessarily opposed to your categorization of Springmeier as a false teacher (even though I would prefer to ascribe misguidedness to his incorrect teachings rather than a sinister intent). What I am seeing more and more clearly is that in some ways, the large volume of conspiracy information I’ve perused (again, I first encountered Springmeier’s work after trying to make sense of certain things that have happened to me; not for his views on end-times theology) doesn’t give me a day-to-day sense of direction. I’m afraid that for all of the research, and even prayer and meditation that I’ve done, my foundation still isn’t as stable as I’d like it to be. My hope is that as I read up on the Rapture, and thus come to a better understanding of God’s plan of salvation for the end times, this will aid me in trying to figure out what calling I should pursue during this difficult period of my life. Along the way, and as you, Burning Lamp, and my own conscience advise, I should do everything I can to focus my attention on the Lord and His will for my life.

    When you state that you don’t believe we are in the Tribulation period yet, I think I understand what you mean. For if the Tribulation had already commenced, and assuming a pre-Tribulation Rapture, the good Christians whom God favors would have already ascended into the arms of the Lord. Seeing as this apparently hasn’t happened yet, it would seem that the seven-year period hasn’t yet begun. When it does, my friend, I hope that you, Burning Lamp, and all of the good folks on this forum (and all of the other good Christians I’ve had the privilege of interacting and fellowshipping with) are caught up and taken away from the misery that will follow. As for me, well, I can’t imagine that the Lord will find me worthy of such an honor; but if He does I will be thrilled! For all of the terrible sins I’ve committed, I really am doing my best to be the man God wants me to be. It comforts me to know that despite my ignorance and lack of understanding, God’s Will will be done; which again, means that pre- or post-Tribulation Rapture, an obligation to oppose the NWO or not, Justice Truth and Love will ultimately prevail.

    I agree with you that one of our most important tasks is to spread the Gospel (which, judging from your website and your patience with me, you are doing a good job of). Not only does the Bible specifically state this, but I also believe that such an obligation naturally follows an adherence to the two most important Commandments: To love God with all of our hearts, minds, souls, and strength, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. If we love God, then we want to tell everyone we know about Him. Also, if we love our neighbors as ourselves, then we want them to experience God’s love and salvation as we do (if it is their will and that of the Holy Spirit that they should, of course; for as I am sure as you will agree, God wants us to come to Him willingly.)

    When you state that the Apostles didn’t picket against the governments of their time, however, I’m not sure that I entirely agree. Sure, they didn’t make signs and hold protests in front of the Roman regional government offices; but then in a sense they didn’t have to. As the horrible persecution of Christians during and especially after Christ’s time on Earth shows, the Romans regarded the worship of any God (even and especially the True one, our God of Israel) other than their pagan “gods” (including their pharaoh/Caesar) as a heresy worthy of death. Thus, even though Jesus states that we are to render what is God’s to God, and what is Caesar’s to Caesar, and despite the Romans’ relative tolerance of the Jewish faith at certain points (presumably this is because they assumed they were firmly in control–a “tolerance” that changed when they realized the power of Christ and His Gospel to rapidly convert the Jews and Gentiles of the period; thus weakening Roman temporal power and obliging Constantine to allegedly convert to Christianity himself), the Apostles and the Christian leaders that followed didn’t really have to be outspoken protesters to challenge (and be seen as a threat to) the existing pagan order. Also in this line of thinking, I think it’s significant to point out that Jesus Himself WAS quite a protester (in addition to being the embodiment of virtue, wisdom, mercy, and humility).

    In my last post, I mentioned the US Constitution; which although not perfect and not a Holy Writ (and is sadly disregarded these days), brings up an additional, ancillary point to the ones above. Clearly, the upheaval that took place in late 18th century North America was more than a rebellion or protest movement, it was a full-fledged Revolution. Considering the injustices that prompted the then-colonists to rise up, and the remarkable social innovations that followed their Revolution, I believe that just as Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, and other revolutionary leaders invoked Divine Providence to aid their cause, Providence (the Holy Spirit) favored them. Don’t get me wrong, Deborah, I’m not attempting to justify slavery, the genocide carried out against Native Americans, and other stains upon our Republic; I’m just pointing out that sometimes, opposing injustice leads to good results (America’s achievements and legacy being mainly positive in my opinion). On the basis of our conversation thus far, I don’t anticipate that my statements in this regard are unacceptable to you.

    Getting back to the NWO (which could be seen as equivalent to Exodus’ wicked Pharoah, Samuel 8′s ill-advised king, and Revelation’s Mystery Babylon), what you state makes a lot of sense. Because indeed, the NWO serves the god of this world, it follows that God doesn’t frown upon us if oppose it (as we do). I guess my confusion stems from trying to understand whose power it is exactly that smites the Earth during the End Times. After reading Revelation a couple of times, my thinking was that it was the Holy Spirit’s power, not that of satan and his NWO. After all, it is the Lamb who unseals these events, and His Angels who trumpet their progression. This perspective, which again may be incomplete, is in part what led me to feel up in arms/horrified over the NWO’s use of weather-modifying/earthquake-causing weapons in the first place. Still, even after reading your and Burning Lamp’s comments and agreeing with them, I feel confused. Assuming that by exposing what we agree to be the works of darkness (all of the presumably man-made earthquakes and terrible storms that statistics show have exploded since 9/11) we stand some small chance of putting a stop to them, don’t we in a sense put ourselves in Lord Jesus’ way? Or could it be that Lord Jesus wants people of faith to play an active role in curtailing these horrors on His behalf? Questions, questions! I need to find a calling and stop worrying so much.

    Regarding your assertion that God having foreknowledge of what the NWO would attempt vs. His supposedly planning these events aren’t the same thing, you can rest assured that I never saw these matters as a game, and I know that God doesn’t either. Thus I’m afraid you may have concerns over a false teaching that neither I nor anyone I’ve read (including Springmeier) advocate! Clearly, though, you are 100% correct about who wins in the end. There’s no question of that. Hallelujah!

    I’ll go ahead and read the links you’ve provided. I give you much respect for your understanding and advocacy of proper theology (which although simple enough to be actionable, is also surprisingly complex), and gratitude for the time you’ve taken to help me.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Christopher

    >> As for me, well, I can’t imagine that the Lord will find me worthy of such an honor; but if He does I will be thrilled! For all of the terrible sins I’ve committed, I really am doing my best to be the man God wants me to be. It comforts me to know that despite my ignorance and lack of understanding, God’s Will will be done; which again, means that pre- or post-Tribulation Rapture, an obligation to oppose the NWO or not, Justice Truth and Love will ultimately prevail.

    Ahh, I thought so. Dear Christopher, you make me so sad. But there is GOOD NEWS. Now is the TIME to understand what SALVATION means and understand what ASSURANCE of your SALVATION means. (ps, I am not saying you are not saved, I am just saying now is the time you UNDERSTAND what it MEANS :) Living in bondage that you are not good enough to be saved is not right. Please I beg of you to read this: Salvation through Jesus Christ
    : 09 – How to Become a Child of God – play close attention to how biblical repentance of sin works ok? and then please read this: Eternal Security – Genuinely Saved, Always Saved!: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/05/03/eternal-security-genuinely-saved-always-saved/

    One of the biggest things we are NOT taught in church is what is salvation, what does is mean, how does the Holy Spirit work in your life, what is biblical repentance of sin etc. Millions of Christians think they are saved but they have no clue what genuine salvation means. and then because their hearts are really not in the right place they get swept away by false teaching.

  • Eddy

    Allo allo again its smee,@all the above writers, 2 ways to approach conspiracy.1 come across it as unsaved or a non believer,you will be prone to a roller coaster ride of fear and disbelief and perhaps end up running and falling on your knees asking for a God “out there to save you” and he will if it is through Jesus you approach him,or you will merely just die in your fear.
    2. You are a believer and have a mature knowledge of scripture and Conspiracy is a discovery because of access to the internet and a natural instinct to being inquisitive.
    From here its a wow the enemy is really up to some nasty tricks ( remember how the peeps conspired to entrap Daniel because he prayed to God )Well this was fore knowledge but yet Daniel was not fazed and continued to pray knowing who and where his salvation lay,and this i think is the base message of Debbie and BL it is certainly mine.But let me give you an example of what it means to be a professional conspiracy agent,or i could also say “Discerning”.Once you are aware of what the NWO is up to it helps to point out to nonbelievers – example.
    I look after Farmers in the karoo and recently whilst i was up there A jet and then a few more flew over during the course of the day,leaving a white plume in there wake.Whilst the farmers were sheep rating ” quality separation”
    I told them to look up into the sky and i pointed this phenomenon out to them -one farmer said he had noticed this of late but did not understand the significance of the white plumes trailing the planes ” google chem-trails and contrails” so i explained to possible conspiracy – so what do we do about this.well i explained that there is a scientist who developed apparatus to counter the effect of chem trail spraying and if they want they should investigate and implement the solution and also to be aware and as in my instance i am trying to find out who is contracted to implement this weather warfare program. So forgive me i am not able to write my entire explanation all at once as i get frustrated with my own typing abilities.But yes there is a conspiracy to control the water supply in SA and also all over the world,if you understand the Bilderberg as a professional body conspiring to run all facets of Authority structures then you will invest more wisely.-You are able to pass this info on so as to make people aware that God is absolutely serious when says the enemy “comes to steal kill and destroy” why in that order.There are many proponents out there of conspiracy and who do excellent research but are non believers in Christ,beware, But there are a few who are very firm in the faith @ Christopher go boy you will get there “Seek and he shall find”

    Ed

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Eddy,

    Yes, I’ve seen those Chemtrails here were I live. It never dawned on me until now (like right this very moment) that they are trying to control the water supply. So my next question is this, WHO really controls our government? Some days I am sure they put Sulphur into the air, you can smell it and I get terrible headaches. For years I used to see those strange clouds in the sky when I was younger and always looked for the Jet that produced them, but there was none – these cloud trails would last up there in the sky for hours on end.

  • Burning Lamp

    Christopher, I echo Deborah’s exhortation to you – a new believer in the Lord (2009) – we don’t earn our salvation and we don’t earn a ticket for the Great Snatch. One is either among the redeemed or one is not. There is much confusion on this issue and Deborah has done a great job of edification in clearing that up. No matter how wicked your deeds of the past, the Lord takes you as you are when you surrender to Him – forgives sins past, present and FUTURE. This is not a license to sin, but rather a cause to love and serve Him Who gave Himself for us.

    As for your other comments about government, I would encourage you to seek out Chris Pinto and his video on the history of the U.S. I don’t have the link handy, but you should be able to locate it by searching online. You can order it or there is one place where it is available online. It is disturbing, yet well-documented and dispels many a myth and falsehood widely spread by people such as David Barton. This should be right up your alley as a conspiracy buff. It is the only topic in that realm that I recommend for believers because it combats the horrible lies of dominionism and false loyalties of believers to their government. Yes, we are to be model citizens and respectful, but at the same time too many Christians invest their time, money and energies into politics and causes instead of doing the work of the Lord, sharing the Gospel and discipling new converts.

    I take note that you are an extremely intelligent person and your willingness to engage in respectful dialog is refreshing. I am glad you came to this place and are open to what is said here. We only aim to help and your attitude of being willing to listen is encouraging. I hope you will seek out the recommended resources.

    Most of all, make sure you fully understand the bottom line, salvation that you may have full assurance.

    I recommend this for starters: http://www.raptureready.com/resource/ironside/fa.html

  • Eddy

    Deborah the 2 main reason for chem trailing ‘uncorroborated’(and my opinion is because access to info is so closely guarded)
    1.The contractors are pumping heavy metals into the air especially USA and UK-Europe,heavy metals either float down or washed down into rivers and dams or Breathed in Cause; upper respiratory/eye infections when breathed in result increase in Pharma sales-(you need only to have done national service with Artillery to have experienced this in mass- I did)
    Water born heavy metals get into your blood liver and kidneys :Cause weakening of the immune system making you susceptible to relatively minor conditions that then exaggerate.
    Agenda: Population control and Big Pharma profits.
    Solution- USA anti conspiracy agent develop ARGON de-fusses – this acts like a metal magnet and destroys the cloud formation.
    Water born consumption: Colloidal silver is a natural anti metal oxidant and boosts the immune system,since its wide use the USA FDA has claimed that it may not be openly promoted.
    Air craft pump Silver iodide into clouds to cause it to rain excessively and visa verso copper sulphates to prevent cloud formation causing drought,this weather warfare was effectively used in Vietnam.Our government is a token government for the people and is directly influenced by the G7 UN council and its policies
    See agenda 21 and Millennium 2015 goals UNESCO.
    Its all there in black and white no guessing.
    When u and i were younger Cloud seeding in the low veld was popular to protect fruit farmers from Hail now they create drought push up water supply costs also as a population inhibitor.
    Chow chow for now.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Eddy

    And all the time I thought taking that mercury filling out my one tooth would solve my problem. HUH, what a joke. What you have said explains sooooooooo much.

  • Christopher Henderson

    Dear Deborah,

    I think what I was trying to say in the last part of my previous message was that the Bible itself is both simple enough to be actionable (believe and trust in God, repent of our sins, and be saved!), and surprisingly complex (as in the intricacies of the Book of Revelation). A proper theological understanding such as the one you have (and I aspire to) definitely helps make the complexity of God’s Word more understandable.

    On the subject of sin, this ties into the reservations I have about whether or not the Lord will see fit to include me in His Rapture. (And thank you for the links, which, as important reminders of God’s faithfulness, give me hope.) While again, I have committed innumerable sins–all of which are humiliating to me–I know that none of them, except one that I may or may not have committed, are forgivable. That one terrible sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which the Bible states cannot be forgiven. The fact that God has answered my spirit of repentance with the strength to resist sins that trapped me for years gives me hope that perhaps I didn’t commit the unforgivable sin. After all, why would He help bring my sins into remission (which has been a long, gradual, and ongoing process) if He already saw me as worthless/doomed due to blasphemy? Still, I can’t help but feel worried. And despite the soul-searching I’ve done, online research, and personal inquiries I’ve made into what actually qualifies as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, I still don’t feel as though I have a definitive answer. Deborah, Burning Lamp, Eddy, and anyone else on here: if you have any insight into this matter, please let me know. The determination I’ve reached is that regardless of whether or not I committed that terrible sin, I will continue to strengthen my faith and do everything I can to walk in obedience to the Lord. As far as what the future may hold goes, I am comfortable with whatever judgment God ultimately makes with regard to my soul because I know that unlike most temporal authorities, He is just. Until that day comes, again, I will keep on making progress and not let my fears prevent me from doing the right thing. Thanks for listening!

  • Christopher Henderson

    Dear Eddy,

    Thanks for the insights. I agree with you that what we make of conspiracy theories has everything to do with our spiritual grounding and inclinations. It’s interesting that you mention coming to Christ after being frightened by conspiracy theories, because such fear is one reason I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior in the summer of 2009. There were other major factors, of course–some of which would take some time to explain–but in the end, I suppose in a way I should be grateful for the horror I felt after reading of certain conspiratorial matters, because again, this fear helped lead me to ask the Lord to enter my life.

    Prior to 2009, I actually didn’t spend much time on conspiracy theories because I was too wrapped up in doing things “my way”–e.g. running around like a chicken with my head cut off and pursuing often fruitless and relatively wicked desires. Of course, not all of the endeavors I was involved in prior to the summer of 2009 were bad–school, work, and playing music for example probably weren’t. But when my life took some bizarre and troubling twists in 2008/2009, these events, combined with the extra time I had on my hands due to not working, going to school, or playing music, prompted me to get on my computer and try to get some answers. While it could certainly be argued that reading conspiracy theories wasn’t/isn’t the best use of my time (indeed, the good advice I’ve gotten from Deborah and Burning Lamp cautions me not to spend too much time on such research), in retrospect I suppose it was inevitable that such a quest would begin (assuming that I survived the “events” I alluded to, which I did).

    My understanding of why chemtrails appear over our skies is similar to yours. (I see them all the time here in Southern California, where we’ve been targeted by all kinds of covert nefarious schemes for decades.)

    From what I can tell, chemtrails comprise a major portion of the NWO lunatics’ war against the civilian populations of the world, and serve the luciferian “elites” in the following ways:

    1) “Depopulation” via the delivery of finely milled toxic heavy metals, as you have already noted;

    2) Profits for the NWO’s medical vultures due to the increased illnesses and subsequent hospital visits resulting from the release of said toxins, a factor which you already mentioned;

    3) A form of nazi-esque experimentation just to “see what happens” (in addition to being incredibly malicious, hypocritical, and nihilistic, the “elites” who sponsor atrocities such as chemtrails often seem to be motivated by petty boredom); and

    4) Mass mind control (the metals, once ingested via breathing/eating foods grown in toxic metal-contaminated soil/etc. reportedly make it easier for mood- and thought-altering EMF frequencies to take effect).

    Let us pray for Lord Jesus to return soon to put an end to these depravities! Either that, or for his Holy Spirit to awaken and outrage enough good folks for them to act justly on His behalf! Or both!

    All the best to you.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Christopher

    The concept of “blasphemy against the Spirit” is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:22-32. The term blasphemy may be generally defined as “defiant irreverence.” The term can be applied to such sins as cursing God or willfully degrading things relating to God. It is also attributing some evil to God, or denying Him some good that we should attribute to Him. This case of blasphemy, however, is a specific one, called “the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit” in Matthew 12:31. In Matthew 12:31-32, the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that the Lord was possessed by the demon “Beelzebub” (Matthew 12:24). Now notice that in Mark 3:30 Jesus is very specific about what they did to commit “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.”

    This blasphemy has to do with someone accusing Jesus Christ of being demon-possessed instead of Spirit-filled. As a result, this particular incidence of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today. Jesus Christ is not on earth. He is seated at the right hand of God. No one can witness Jesus Christ performing a miracle and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Spirit. The closest example today would be attributing the miracle of a redeemed person’s changed life to Satan’s power rather than to the effects of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

    The blasphemy of the Spirit today, which is the same as the unpardonable sin, is the state of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. Continual rejection of the Holy Spirit’s promptings to trust in Jesus Christ is the unpardonable blasphemy against Him. Remember what is stated in John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” Further on in the same chapter is the verse “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him” (John 3:36). The only condition wherein someone would have no forgiveness is if he is not among the “whoever believes in Him,” for it is he who “rejects the Son.”

    For example: Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is you as a Christian turning your back on God and actually by mouth denying Jesus Christ and following another religion (god). For instance, I know of a girl who I used to work with who was a Christian, she then met a Jewish guy, she fell head over heels in love. In order to marry him she had to denounce Christianity. So she did, she went through a 1 year program and finally denounced Jesus Christ and was baptized as into the Jewish faith. That Christopher is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

    The fact that you still have conviction of your sin still means the Holy Spirit is with you because only the Holy Spirit convicts man of sin. Be happy, rejoice Christopher. Rejoice when the Holy Spirit convicts you of your sin because it’s God speaking to you telling you that He wants you to repent and change your ways and if you listen to Him, if you obey that gentle whisper He will know that you hear Him and want to start the process of making changes to your life.

    So Christopher, are you going to start to listen to the Holy Spirit in your life who HAS BEEN SPEAKING TO YOU ALL THIS TIME and OBEY HIM and get on your knees and ask Jesus for forgiveness one last time just to clear the slate. And when you stand up, KNOW that you are FORGIVEN – Because when Jesus says I FORGIVE YOU, HE MEANS IT. You need to have FAITH in these matters. And for future sin that you will commit because you are a sinner, just like I am, you when the Holy Spirit convicts you, you repent, you ask Jesus to forgive you Please read this article: Lordship Salvation – Putting the Cart Before the Horse

  • Michael

    Christopher…sinning against the Holy Spirit simply means rejection of God’s saving grace which was Christ’s redemption of the cross at Calvary…only the Holy Spirit can convict a person of his/her sin and see the need to be saved from this and opens the belief in the true Jesus being the only solution for this.
    The fact that it still worries you is proof enough that you are convicted and believe and want Jesus. He has not left you and you need to know that. The bible tells us that He paid the FULL price…not just for some sins.
    Some horrible people have found Christ and been saved…slave traders…murderers etc. But it has to be true and bonafide repentance.
    I remember reading a terrible story about a woman…Carla Faye Tucker who under the influence of heavy drugs and together with a male accomplice hacked and blundered to death two people who were asleep in their bed. They were both sentenced to death row…her accomplice escaped his death sentence because he died in prison of a liver disease but she spent many years in death row and fortunately became a true and committed Christian…she was honest with God and man and confessed her grave sins…she accepted the consequences and bravely persevered…although her change was radical and indeed a completely new person who perhaps had very mitigating circumstances…her appeal to governor George Bush was turned down at the eleventh hour and she bravely faced the lethal injection because she knew Christ had forgiven her. This is a very traumatic ending for those outside of Christ but a very moving one for those who look forward to being with our loving Saviour. Christ conquered all sin and being saved is a free gift to all who truly renounce their wicked ways whether it a small little hidden deceit or a huge crime against humanity or God and accept Jesus as their only Saviour.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    The difference between con-trails from a Jet engine and ChemTrails:

  • Eddy

    To Christopher
    Deborah and Michael have explained it well.i will not dare to add suffice to say this.
    i was born into a Pentecostal home – At age 19 i went into national service and there found drugs of the worst kind and so was enslaved for 10 years.one occasion Goofed out my tree and early hours of the morning and i mean early,the conviction of the Holy Spirit penetrated my my drug induced stupor and revealed the road i was on, that of destruction.(Long story).But from that night when i pleaded for mercy and help from the Lord it was not until one night 4 years later that i fell on my knees repented that i was instantly delivered 1991.I have been repenting since not for that but we sin daily.I live with he consequences ” short term memory loss” but whilst we live the holy spirit tarries with us to a point where He then decides no matter what He does we will deny him,that’s the day He departs and Satan destroys us. So take comfort with your convictions that is the Holy Spirit drawing you to work out your salvation.
    And if you ever make to sunny South Africa you shall be welcome.

  • Michael

    For example: Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is you as a Christian turning your back on God and actually by mouth denying Jesus Christ and following another religion (god). For instance, I know of a girl who I used to work with who was a Christian, she then met a Jewish guy, she fell head over heels in love. In order to marry him she had to denounce Christianity. So she did, she went through a 1 year program and finally denounced Jesus Christ and was baptized as into the Jewish faith. That Christopher is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

    Good example Deb’s.
    She is heading for hell if this continues but even this can be forgiven if she turns around and repents…in order for this to happen would again come from Holy Spirit conviction but she might again resist…the bible teaches that God’s Spirit will not always strive with man.
    If this does happen it will be purely because of His mercy and grace.
    Irreveverance and abuse of God’s costly grace is dangerous game to play and can cost you your soul if you don’t repent and return to Him but I very much doubt if this woman was truly saved in the first place.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Amen Eddy

    Sounds like my story, except replace drugs with the occult. We all have our past, but our future with Jesus Christ is sealed by the Holy Spirit and when you become a child of God, you Christopher, will have your seat in the rapture :)

  • Christopher Henderson

    Dear Burning Lamp,

    Thanks! I take heart from the interactions I’m having with you, Deborah, and Eddy. I am very glad I encountered this website and all of the intelligent, knowledgeable, and caring people who frequent it–yourself very much included.

    Yes, it is true that we cannot earn our way into Heaven. The good deeds the Lord wants us to do on His behalf should come out of a desire to do right by Him, not out of a sense of “earning” our salvation. I totally agree. All we need to do is believe and trust in Him and repent of our sins! While all fall short of the glory of God, He is merciful and faithful to forgive us for our transgressions–past, present, and future.

    As I pointed out to Deborah in one of my recent posts, my concern over my spiritual condition stems not from a lack of faith in God’s willingness to forgive the vast majority of my sins (which I have repented of to the best of my ability–applying as I do the standard of “sins repented of are not repeated”), but of worries over whether or not I committed the unforgivable sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. However, as Deborah has pointed out in her most recent response on this thread (which I will have to respond to tomorrow because it is getting very late), this concern may be unnecessary!

    I will look into Chris Pinto’s information, as I am always interested in history, and furthering the knowledge of the country I call home. Thanks for the recommendation. I note that you also are concerned over Dominionism, a school of thought that although I’ve heard of I’m not overly familiar with. At some point I’ll take a look at it as well–remembering to bear your and Deborah’s warnings in mind. I am aware of the existence of certain church groups that advocate a reading of Romans 13 that demands unquestioning, blind obedience to our governments–which I agree is alarming. In “Common Sense,” Thomas Paine does an excellent job of assembling Scriptural arguments that mollify–not negate–what Apostle Paul states in Romans 13. For indeed, without these Scriptures (including Samuel 8), it would have been difficult for the American revolutionaries to find sufficient justification with which to inspire the citizenry to rise up against injustice.

    Thanks again for all of your kind words and encouragement; this means a lot to me. Over time, and thanks in part to interactions such as the one we’re having, I’m becoming more acquainted with the full scope of God’s miraculous forgiveness. This is exactly the kind of edification I need!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Yay!! :) I love it when a plan comes together (sings the A-Team tune)

  • Michael

    yes I also love it when a plan comes together…not the “A’ Team with Hannibal ( the late George Peppard) but with a saved soul…like me and you…I sincerely hurt and feel the pain of my Christian brothers that are following devils doctrines…I understand this very well as I was a devoted victim of this…Christians! throw out preachers…books…etc…etc…read your bible and be very, very honest and sincere with your honesty,sincerity and integrity…do not follow Angus Buchan, Joyce Meyer, Benny Hinn and even Billy Graham or John Mc Arthur just the simple instructions passed through the ages by the annointed writers…not the modern day charlatans of today.

  • Michael

    Having said this…I believe that there still are helpers to understand the SIMPLE message of the cross…the charlatans however had abused the grace of God and have deliberately abused it to draw attenrtion to their lack of value in their own eyes and the society that diminishes them and have sold by effective selling techniques a way that leads to death…if not death a weakened spiritual poverty that places happiness and security on successful material comfort and financial gain.

  • Michael

    Crumbs kudos to you Debs for the editing …but I am too slow… a few mistakes…must be my Irish blood??

  • Robbie

    Agree Michael.

    If you’re born once, you die twice; but if you’re born twice, you die once. ….
    simple! :-)

  • Christopher Henderson

    Dear Deborah,

    I am really glad we’re having this conversation, because in it you’ve addressed both my recent concerns (e.g. how to understand Revelation in light of all of the chaos that’s been taking place in recent months and years), and a long-running worry I’ve had (whether or not I committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit).

    Regarding the latter concern (which has been something of a nightmare for me), your analysis is much appreciated, and dovetails nicely with some of the other reading I’ve done on this subject. It certainly does make sense that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in its original context refers to the Pharisees’ willful attribution of Jesus’ divine works to demonic sources. And although there are different interpretations as to what this concept represents in today’s world, I feel that you could very well be correct in equating it to a continued state of unbelief. In other words, your interpretation is the one that makes the most sense to me. Thanks! By this definition, for the most part I’m in decent shape.

    You may be wondering, then, why it is that I’ve still had doubt. Well, maybe the answer is that I am still reeling from the blasphemies I did commit, which although they don’t appear to be blasphemies of the Holy Spirit per se are sickening nonetheless. Sure, the worst ones by far happened many years ago when I was completely lost, and I don’t even dream of cursing God these days (I have finally understood that He wasn’t the author of the suffering I experienced), but believe me when I tell you that these blasphemies–one of which was done in public–were terrible. With all of this in mind, and as you state, maybe my continuing to feel ill at ease (although not discouraged enough to abandon my faith) has been the Lord’s admonition to never do such a thing again! Because he still cares and hasn’t rejected me.

    And you know what, Deborah, I think He does forgive me for my blasphemies, which in all fairness happened under a great deal of duress anyway. I am going to take your advice to heart. What I’ll do to close this matter out completely is talk it over with my pastor, get his thoughts, and assuming he’s in concordance with our viewpoint, let go of my fear and guilt over sins that believe me, I have gotten on my knees and asked for forgiveness for. In all aspects of life, this one particularly, I need to do more letting go and letting God!

    Thanks for the link you provided, which I will certainly read, and don’t worry: I’m not done asking for forgiveness by any means! Many blessings to you.

  • Christopher Henderson

    Dear Michael,

    Thanks for joining the conversation! I really appreciate your insight here, especially seeing as it corroborates Deborah’s perspective. The worrying I’ve done over my blasphemies has been very dispiriting at times–but again, not enough to make me abandon the spiritual progress I’ve made through Jesus Christ. As I stated in my last post, I think I’ve just about arrived at the point that I’m willing to relinquish my fear and doubt in this regard.

    With respect to the sad story of Carla Faye Tucker, what she did sounds absolutely horrible, but I am glad she accepted Jesus before her execution. For my part, I have never been in favor of the death penalty. It’s ironic that out of all the executions that Bush Jr. oversaw while governor of Texas, the only pardon he saw fit to issue was to Henry Lee Lucas–one of the worst serial killers in US history. Could it be, as some have suggested, that this was because in Lucas Mr. Bush saw a kindred spirit? This kind of mentality would do much to explain W’s inevitable involvement in or at the very least tacit sanction of the 9/11 mass murders. (Remember the book he was reading at the time he was informed of what happened? “My Pet Goat”–and it was upside down!)

    But that’s a digression back into the realm of conspiracy theories. I really admire the evangelists who do prison outreach, and help inmates receive comfort and salvation during difficult times. Sadly, although our prison system is nominally meant to be rehabilitative as well as punitive, all too often the former role is completely nonexistent. This is where Christian evangelism gets to shine however, in the form of outreach. In fact, there’s a great guy I met last year who does this very sort of thing, and one of the these days I need to get back in touch with him and see how he’s doing. Maybe one day soon, I can accompany him on one of his expeditions. Every soul is precious to our Lord!

    I will do my best to be judicious about which faith-related books I read, remembering to always focus first and foremost on the Word itself. The message of Calvary is indeed simple, which is one of the reasons it works.

    Many blessings to you my friend.

  • Christopher Henderson

    Dear Eddy,

    I am glad the Lord led you out of those circumstances, and that you were amenable to His will which speaks very well of you. I was an alcoholic for many years so I can relate. Daily sins indeed…we are sinners! But blessed, forgiven, and saved.

    “So take comfort with your convictions that is the Holy Spirit drawing you to work out your salvation.”

    I like how you put this! Muchas gracias.

    And I would love to visit South Africa! If I ever get the chance to do so, I will let you know. Please do likewise if you’d like to visit SoCal. The great thing about the Internet is that in a sense, we ARE visiting each other by conversing here!

    Many blessings to you!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Michael

    I fix dem pesky errors

  • Christopher Henderson

    Dear Deborah,

    I just read the article “Lordship Salvation–Putting the Cart Before the Horse.” Some serious food for thought! Thanks again for all of your help; I really appreciate it.

  • Christopher Henderson

    If anyone is interested in learning more about conspiracies that have negatively affected the people of Southern California–i.e. the “covert nefarious” activities I referred to in one of my previous posts–I encourage you to research the following items:

    -The 1940s/50s-era Great American Streetcar Scandal, which involved Los Angeles as well as a number of other major American cities. Basically what happened was that several big companies including Rockefeller Standard Oil, GM, and Firestone Tire teamed up to buy out the electric cable car-based mass public transit systems in major US cities for the purposes of dismantling them. The idea was to phase out these inexpensive, efficient, and relatively environmentally friendly systems in favor of the then-nascent freeway system, which of course was very much designed to accommodate Standard Oil, GM, and Firestone products. And the rest, as they say, is history. In the decades that followed we very much became a car culture.

    The problem with this of course (and believe it or not I say this as an auto enthusiast!) is that it is very expensive to own a car; ownership of which opens one up to a number of different liabilities as compared to relying upon mass transportation. Also there’s the issue of smog and what to do about broken-down/unwanted older vehicles, both of which are seriously taxing to the environment. And finally, and perhaps most ominously, the car culture has over time forced us to become much more reliant upon foreign oil, which as we are seeing now has major national security implications. Thus in a very real sense, those who want to point the finger at Americans as wasteful (which we certainly can be) and eager to help ourselves to other countries’ resources should understand that it is our “elites” such as Rockefeller (who now has the guts to fund the environmental movement–how’s that for hypocrisy?) who time and time again have led us down the consumerist path. The public good was sold out all those years ago, and this has come back to haunt us in a number of ways.

    (Sidenote: I recently learned that these events are referenced in the film “Who Framed Roger Rabbit.” Interesting! For all of the complaining I do about Hollywood, they do give us a heads up every now and then. I should also note that with the addition of the Metro Blue Line system over the last fifteen years or so, LA’s public transportation systems aren’t that bad.)

    -The deliberate introduction in the 1980s of cocaine to the Los Angeles area via the CIA’s massive Iran-Contra arms smuggling/drug-running operation for the purposes of destabilizing our communities, securing public approval and funding the so-called “War on Drugs” (a war that could be won in short order if honest FBI, DEA, and ATF agents were allowed to continue their investigations; see Carman, John), making money via drug convictions for the prison-industrial complex, and funding further covert CIA activities. As you will see if you read the Chip Tatum Chronicles and Gary Webb’s outstanding investigative work (efforts that cost Mr. Webb his life), the crack cocaine epidemic that has since the ’80s swept through the entire country and affected people of all walks of life was a deliberate creation of the Central Intelligence Agency. As such, the subsequent loss of life and livelihood that has followed was thus both entirely preventable and a diabolical testimony to the ruthlessness of certain elements within our so-called national security establishment.

    -The deliberate poisoning of the Los Angeles water supply via mandatory fluoridation. Sodium fluoride, as a potent neurotoxin, component of rat poison, and byproduct of uranium enrichment has virtually no health benefits–quite the opposite, in fact. After taking the time to read some very credible independent analyses of the long-term effects of fluoride, it’s clear that fluoride advocates are either willfully ignorant of the facts, or even worse are paid shills of the NWO “elite”–the latter of whom are hell-bent on bringing about their goals of “depopulation” and mass mind control (fluoride reduces cognitive abilities–a fact that the “elites” are presumably well aware of and elated about). (Fluoridation is a national conspiracy as well, and one of grotesque proportions, affecting approximately 2/3 of the US population.)

    -And finally, and as Eddy and I discussed, the deliberate introduction of finely milled toxic heavy metals such as barium into the atmosphere for the purposes of mind control, “depopulation,” profits for the medical industry, and, one can only presume, “fun” for the depraved monsters/would-be gods of the NWO. (Chemtrails being a national and global problem as well.)

    Due to the research I’ve been conducting over the last several years, I am well aware of the unfortunate fact that people all over the world are suffering. Therefore in lieu of asking you to pray for the people of Southern California (although certainly, feel free to if you like with my thanks!), at this time I ask for you to do as Deborah suggests and pray that Lord Jesus returns soon. That, or for enough people to become aware and outraged as to bring down Mystery Babylon (the NWO) on Lord Jesus’ behalf. Or both!

    Thanks for hearing me out and God bless you.

  • Christopher Henderson

    I have a feeling I may have gone a bit overboard on the conspiracy information. I apologize for this, and in the future I will do my best to limit my comments to theology-related matters.

    Before I move on, however, I would like to make a few points for anyone who may be reading this. First of all, despite all of the criticisms I’ve made pertaining to conspiracies, I love my country and am hoping for the best. In regard to the Great American Streetcar Scandal, I understand that there are alternative ways of looking at this. For example, it could be argued that the implementation of the freeway system led to much more economic growth than what would have happened otherwise. Indeed, I can see the truth of this. As a person who believes in the beneficial power of private industry, I only wish that a little more thought would have been put back in the ’40s and ’50s to the long-term strategic implications of making America more dependent upon oil. Also, as someone who has spent many, many hours stuck in traffic jams, it seems to me that slightly more emphasis should have been put on public transportation from the get-go.

    Being a believer in the power of free-market economics, however, doesn’t mean I am a fan of the prison-industrial complex. I am not and make no apologies for this.

    Moving on to the scornful words I lodged at “our so-called national security establishment,” I think that anyone who takes the time to understand Iran-Contra, etc. will feel both horrified and disappointed by these abuses. This I feel is a normal and natural response. Also, I am anti-war (except in the case of an actual, physical invasion/bombardment of one’s home country, a scenario that of course demands vigorous defensive measures), another stance for which I make no apologies; and one that can occasionally lead to the expression of some frustration. That said, I am concerned for the well-being of all of my countrymen, very much including our troops who are currently deployed in the Middle East theater. If I had my way, I would bring these wars to a rapid conclusion via 9/11 Truth or other peaceful methods, bring our brave men and women home, and give them lavish benefits so that even those among them who are in good health and don’t have much in their savings accounts could live comfortably without having to work for 5-10 years or more. Excellent health benefits would necessarily be included as well, of course; with even more benefits/monthly income and the best care available given to those who have suffered traumatic injuries.

    Where would all of this money come from, you might ask? Well, first of all, caring for our veterans should be a funding priority regardless of how said funds are made available. That said, there is a way to obtain a large volume of funds: by implementing the long-awaited Wanta Plan. With these trillions of off-balance-sheet dollars added back to the Treasury, we could easily take care of our troops, pay down a substantial portion of the national debt, and perhaps even use the funds to bring stability to the troubled regions we’re currently engaged in–that is to say, buy peace if we have to (e.g. by supplying substantial funds for the affected nations’ governments, their infrastructure projects, and for other forms of compensation; with additional “bonus” funds made available for the successful implementation of US and internationally agreed-upon democratic objectives). Also for the soldiers who may want to work right away after returning home, we could give them the option of working for a Wanta Plan-boosted Army Corps. of Engineers and pay them good salaries to help rebuild America’s decaying infrastructure which is in desperate need of assistance. Alternatively, these veterans could work for private corporations endowed by Wanta Plan funds to bring about the same goal–said corporations also being in a good position to provide numerous jobs to private citizens as well. I could go on and on about other massive benefits that could be conferred via the repatriation of the Wanta funds, but in the interest of brevity I’ll go ahead and stop here.

    The last couple of points I will make before signing off involve a reference I made to Apostle Paul’s authorship of Romans 13, and one other matter. While yes, technically Paul did write Romans 13, as well as numerous other Scriptures, I am well aware of the fact that he was Holy Spirit-inspired to do so. Therefore in a very real sense, and as I’m sure most if not all of you will agree, GOD wrote the Book of Romans, as He did all of the Bible. The reason I brought Romans 13 up in the first place was to comment on what I regard as the questionable interpretation some make of it that leads to a “never, ever, question temporal authorities” mindset.

    Finally, I’d like to comment on the prayer I encouraged people to make: for Lord Jesus to return soon; or for enough people to become aware of the NWO’s abuses and outraged to act on Lord Jesus’ behalf; or both. Seeing how strict some folks are about exegesis on this forum–which I totally understand and respect; for God definitely wants us to understand Him correctly–this prayer may have been viewed as improper. (If anybody even read it that is! LOL.) To such a perspective, I can only say that my understanding of the Scriptures is as I said, somewhat limited–especially in areas pertaining to eschatology. Actually I can say more than that: I believe that Christians need to do more to stand up to injustice. While it could very well be true that only God’s direct manifestation in the form of Jesus’ Second Coming will be sufficient to correct the injustices that proliferate on Earth (please Lord Jesus, return soon!), I don’t view this as a license to be apathetic to the suffering that’s taking place. And although I know that many Christians aren’t apathetic, I can’t help but feel frustrated at the continuance of a status quo that is destructive to the interests of the vast majority of the people on Earth, as well as to the planet itself. If I am misguided in this regard, then I trust that in due time the Lord will correct me. In the interim, I must find a way to grow my mustard seed- or even grain of sand-sized faith to the point that I just don’t worry as much.

    I appreciate your patience, and much love in Christ Jesus to all.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Christpher

    No worries, I didn’t answer you because I was busy doing other stuff – trying to help Judy and Renjy. AND Friday’s are usually quiet…

  • Burning Lamp

    Christopher, it is good that you seem to be coming into a balance on the conspiracy thing. However, may I be so bold as to make some suggestions and some references for you to check out? For starters, here: http://www.realtimefellowship.com/id12.html Please read this short commentary as a basis. Then as I recommended previously, get Chris Pinto’s documentary on America. It will be a mindblower, but should be right up your alley.

    Trust me, there are more than enough true, bonafide facts that are documented that should keep one occupied and never have to pay any attention to conspiracy theories and remember, they are just that, theories, speculations.

    I could see you really sinking your intellectual teeth into the subject of eschatology, but be sure to form your mindset arm yourself with your Bible in one hand and a good commentary in the other. I highly recommend H.A. Ironside’s expositoy notes. You can order them online, you will not find them in a “Christian” bookstore.

    Every social problem has a spiritual root cause. For example, abortion is a horrible evil. But it is driven by ignorance, selfishness and greed. It is not that the churches fail to stand up against social evils, it is that the churches fail to present the true Gospel message, make true converts, properly disciple and teach the sheep and equip them to go out and share the Gospel and make disciples. We are to be about God’s business first and foremost and that does not include picketing abortion clinics alongside those of apostate religions simply because they agree on this topic. Well-meaning, moral folks can stand up and rail against social evils, but it does nothing for their eternal destiny or the eternal destiny of those who are seeking the abortions.

    May the Lord guide you in your walk and lead you into all truth.

  • Christopher Henderson

    Thanks Deb. It wasn’t my intention to make you or anyone else feel guilty about not getting back to me right away. I guess I’m just a little bit “needy” due to my personal circumstances. Maybe part of it is liking to hear myself talk as well…I dunno. Trying not to be too much of a blowhard!

    You’ve really helped me with your guidance, and I know there are others in need of your insight as well; so please help out whoever else is in need, and feel free to converse with me anytime! Your thoughts and kind wishes are much appreciated.

  • Christopher Henderson

    Dear Burning Lamp,

    Thanks for the kind words! As for me, I’m not altogether convinced that I’ve got a good balance with the conspiracy theories–not yet at least–but I’m doing my best to be the man God wants me to be. Certainly there is room for improvement, which I hope will be forthcoming.

    I just read the Realtime Fellowship article, which I found very thought-provoking. Thanks! Being a conspiracy researcher in addition to a Christian, I understand the concept of the Vatican extending its hegemony to America via the ecumenical movement–as well as their subversion of US Protestant denominations via Scottish Rite/Jesuit “illuminized” Freemasonry (remembering of course that many of our Founding Fathers were Masons…gulp!). I agree with Realtime’s analysis in this regard, although I haven’t given up all hope on American Protestantism; and, their possible occultic beliefs aside, I find much to admire about our Founding Fathers. (Some of whom were quite aware of the Vatican’s temporal aspirations, and spoke out vigorously against them. Perhaps unsurprisingly, these quotes have been largely scoured from the annals of history. From the Vatican’s perspective, it wouldn’t do to have Adams’ blasting of the Jesuits included in modern-day American textbooks, would it?)

    Now let’s proceed to Realtime’s assertion that freedom of religion (stipulated in our 1st Amendment, which, interestingly enough, some credit to the principles of Protestantism) is a wicked doctrine. Honestly Burning Lamp, I have some difficulty with this. It’s not that I agree with ecumenism, or that I view the worship of “gods” other than our God of Israel as OK. Certainly the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments makes clear that there is only one path to salvation: and that is through the worship of our Triune God YHVH/Y’shua/Holy Spirit. However, to state that in declaring freedom of religion our Constitution advocates apostasy/heresy is a bit of a stretch in my opinion. As you will hopefully agree, God gave us Free Will–which means He wants us to come to Him willingly. (Although I agree with the Calvinists in some aspects of their Free Will doctrine, for me the fact that God in His omniscience, even knowing ahead of time that Adam and Eve would make the wrong choice, saw fit to give them Free Will anyway speaks volumes as whether or not He intended/intends for us to have it.) Therefore, for the US government (or any other government for that matter) to “mandate” an adherence to Christianity, they would in a sense overstep what could be viewed as an important boundary. (Now, would said “overstepping” be a greater error than possibly allowing souls to be lost to other faiths due to freedom of religion protections? That is an interesting, and debatable, line of inquiry.) As for the Illuminati plot to destroy Christian faith, an agenda that can be seen advocated in a number of ways in our “modern” society, rest assured that I oppose this wholeheartedly! Look at our unemployment. Look at our mental health statistics. Look at our debt levels. Look at the divorce rates. Look at the abortion rates. By any number of measures, as we become more “modernized” and apostate, we sink deeper and deeper into misery. I for one don’t view this (which I attribute to the Illuminazi lunatics’ war on faith, NOT to our 1st Amendment) as a coincidence.

    Moving on (and it looks like this is going to be another long-winded post; I hope you don’t mind!), I think it’s also important to answer the question of whether or not our separation of church and state/advocacy of freedom of religion is proper by looking at a variety of Scriptures. Realtime has cited the First Commandment as well as other Scriptures to back up their position. Fair enough; I can understand and respect that. But what about Matthew 22:21 and Mark 12:17? Couldn’t these be interpreted as supportive of a separation of church and state? I believe so; and indeed, pro-Establishment Clause theologians have been citing them in support of their position for centuries. Who’s ultimately right? Well, God is, of course! Whether He stands with the good folks at Realtime or those in favor of freedom of religion AS A GOVERNMENT POLICY is a difficult question. I can tell you that as an American who’s proud of the Constitution, a Christian who understands and agrees completely with the truth of salvation only coming through Jesus Christ, and someone who believes in the critical importance of Free Will, I don’t see the First Amendment’s freedom of religion provision as an inherently bad thing.

    Finally, on the topic of America’s freedom of religion allegedly being a Trojan Horse for the Church of Rome’s ecumenical movement, I would just like to point out that as of the late 18th century when the Constitution was written, the Vatican wasn’t promoting ecumenism. Quite the opposite, in fact: at that time, the Jesuits’ counter-Reformation (which very much denies freedom of religion, by the way) was in full swing. It wasn’t until the 1960s, with Vatican II (which completely and totally conflicts with the still-in-effect-to-this-day Council of Trent–one of many holes in the absurd doctrine of papal “infallibility”) that the Vatican began promoting ecumenism. Therefore I find Realtime’s assertions in this regard a bit strange. (Charles Carroll’s somewhat troubling influence, which I am still trying to piece through, notwithstanding.)

    Burning Lamp, I am well aware of the perils of the ecumenical movement, and how ecumenism conflicts with numerous Scriptures. As such, I am not in favor of ecumenism. However I do believe that there are God-given rights and freedoms, and that the US Bill of Rights does much to preserve them. (I like the Declaration as well, but technically it isn’t a binding legal document like the Constitution is–or was, that is, before the advent of legislation such as the wicked so-called “Patriot Act.”)

    Now, is Realtime correct in asserting that the American Dream itself is satanic? That is a frightening thought. Certainly materialism/consumerism, which America’s critics often associate with the American Dream, is misguided (at best). Although there is plenty of blame to go around for the proliferation of material desires in American society, I for one feel that not enough attention goes to the “elites” themselves, who have promoted consumerism for the purposes of enriching themselves. Indeed, we here in the States are barraged with thousands of advertising messages every day–messages that are designed to make us feel insecure/worthless/”left out” if we don’t buy the featured products. Many of the ads use sexual overtones to bring said feelings about–which is degrading to both men and women. Without getting too much more into this well-documented and tragic trend, I’d like to take a moment to point out one of the “elites’” most diabolical hypocrisies: as they conspire to saturate American “consumers” (a word that I’ve grown to hate) with their “buy now!” “buy now or you ain’t nothing!” propaganda, and reap the subsequent profits, they then have the guts to turn around and, through various “foundations” and “thinktanks,” label Americans as materialistic and wasteful! While the shamelessness and depravity of this would be bad enough in and of itself, said “elites” then proceed to use their misanthropic and hypocritical categorization of Americans to declare that on the basis of our “elite”-encouraged consumption levels, there are “too many people on Earth” and “we” must “depopulate!” In other words, first they need us to fund their lavish lifestyles (via our purchase of their products); but once they’re rolling in dough thanks in large part to us, we become nothing more than “useless eaters” to be killed off! That’s gratitude for you, huh?

    (One might ask the likes of rabid “depopulationist” Ted Turner why he bothered having children in the first place, if there are “too many people on the planet.” Or why these morons continue to ignore the internationally acknowledged, worldwide development known as demographic winter–a phenomenon which completely invalidates their idiotic, nihilistic, anti-Christian, and misanthropic so-called worldview.)

    (For the record, despite my angry words I don’t hate rich people; I only hate the warped perspective that some–certainly not all–of them have. And while without a doubt, we need private companies to make products and provide employment, the advertising has gotten way, way out of hand.)

    After having made that long digression, I’d like to return to the American Dream and state that in what I regard as its original meaning (i.e. life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness), there was and is nothing wrong with it. Yes, there is the ugly fact that in some ways, a happy life for the “privileged few” in centuries past (and some would argue up to the present) came at the expense of others’ freedoms and even lives. In a 300+ year genocide that has very few parallels, tens of millions of Native Americans were murdered right here in North America. Also to America’s shame, African slaves were forcibly brought here against their will and brutalized by supposedly “freedom- and equality-loving” white folks. And unfortunately, there have been many other infamies that have taken place on our soil (the treatment of Chinese-Americans, Irish-Americans, Japanese-Americans, and Italian-Americans come to mind). Nowadays there are the horrors of “COINTELPRO Redux”–a covert war against the domestic American population that involves brutally sadistic field agent- and directed energy weapon-based tortures that are often done to the death, with no due process or human rights whatsoever extended to the victims (of which I am one). And then, of course, there’s the specter of “elite”-mandated materialism that I’ve already discussed here in some detail.

    But you know what? I said it before and I will say it again: there is nothing wrong with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, provided that 1) they are truly upheld with equality; and 2) “happiness” isn’t automatically equated with how much one owns or what status they possess. Yes, obviously we have failed miserably on both points at various times throughout our history–but that doesn’t mean that the American Dream, at least in the pure form in which I like to think of it–is satanic. We have strength in diversity; great cultural achievements in the arts; many inspirational political, civic, and military leaders; and our achievements in business, warts and all, are unparalleled in world history. Therefore I can say that despite the sad shape America is in these days–which has been many, many years in the making–and despite the fact that I can understand certain aspects of Realtime’s criticism of the American Dream, I can’t agree with their categorical statement in this regard. America is a great country–and if it isn’t, it will one day be again.

    Whew! This is turning into a long, long post. But I like the discussion we’re having, and I think I’ve already addressed the most complex and perhaps difficult aspects of what I’d like to say/blather on about (LOL).

    Abortion is evil. There is no doubt in my mind about this. Of course, coming from a purportedly “left-wing” family, I always had feminism shoved down my throat; which wouldn’t seem to be necessarily sinister except for the fact that unfortunately, in addition to their understandable interest in promoting equal rights, feminists often fiercely uphold “a woman’s right to choose.” I believe the foundation for this goes back to Margaret Sanger, the notorious eugenicist who some claim advocated the sterilization of minorities on the basis of their allegedly being “inferior”/”not fit to reproduce.” Really I wish that feminists, many of whom are probably well-meaning people, would do a little research into Sanger; as well as the CIA’s and Rockefellers’ covert funding/advocacy of their movement, and see that they’ve been hoodwinked into supporting an agenda that the freedom-hating NWO has used for their own nefarious purposes for quite some time now. There was an image I recall seeing a couple of years ago in which Gloria Allred grins creepily while wearing an “I had an abortion” t-shirt. I mean come on! It’s bad enough to have an abortion, but I can’t help but find the idea of advertising having done so appalling.

    On my end, and in all fairness, I have to carefully reconsider my recent advocacy of the purported civil rights group the ACLU, because sadly, in addition to the litigation they undertake for the purposes of putting the police state in check (which largely accounts for my support thus far of their organization), the ACLU also insists on promoting abortion rights. This is a difficult admission for me to make; and, Burning Lamp, I hope you won’t judge me too harshly for having made it.

    As for your statement that “Well-meaning, moral folks can stand up and rail against social evils, but it does nothing for their eternal destiny or the eternal destiny of those who are seeking the abortions,” this is a tough one for me. I understand that we are saved through grace and not through works. However, that said, would we even have Protestant freedoms and indeed Reformation-based theology in America and other places if people hadn’t fought to preserve these things? If those people hadn’t laid down their lives in Europe, America, and other places over the course of centuries, would we even have the freedom today to read and advocate the Word the way we want to? If the answer is “no,” then it would seem to follow that all of the soul-winning God wanted His people to do in the years that followed those costly military and spiritual victories wouldn’t have been possible. Why wouldn’t God look favorably upon those whose sacrifice helped preserve our freedoms and faith?

    I’m not necessarily disagreeing with what you state here; I just thought I’d give you a little food for thought. And yes, in due time I will check out what Chris Pinto has to say. Meanwhile, and until I hear from you again, may God bless you and thanks for the dialog! Christopher Henderson, signing off.

  • Christopher Henderson

    One more thing.

    I tried to make a quick edit to the following statement, but was cut off before I had a chance to do so. Instead of saying:

    “Whether He stands with the good folks at Realtime or those in favor of freedom of religion is a difficult question.”

    What I meant to say was:

    “Whether He stands with the good folks at Realtime or those in favor of freedom of religion AS A GOVERNMENT POLICY is a difficult question.”

    All right! Hopefully that little clarification helps. I really wrote a lot, huh? Wow!

  • Christopher Henderson

    Dear Burning Lamp,

    After all that, I guess I didn’t quite write enough; because there’s one more matter I feel I should clear up.

    In addressing your statement of “Well-meaning, moral folks can stand up and rail against social evils, but it does nothing for their eternal destiny or the eternal destiny of those who are seeking the abortions,” in which I referenced the victories of the American Revolution, the English fleet’s triumph over the Armada, the Thirty Years War, etc. as examples of standing up to injustice that I would hope God would look favorably upon, I did not mean this as an endorsement of violence against abortion clinics. While I am against abortion and would support those who speak out against abortion, I don’t advocate the use of violence against abortion doctors and their clinics.

    Just thought I’d give that additional $0.02. Hopefully it helps.

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Christopher

    I fixed the mistake. Do you think I should make the editing time longer? If so how much longer do you think? Did it carry on counting down when you had the editing window open?

  • Burning Lamp

    America is a great country–and if it isn’t, it will one day be again.

    Christopher, thank you for your thoughtful response. However, I can’t agree with you on this statement and the Bible does not support it. That is why I urge you to get your eschatological ducks in a row. It changes your whole outlook and also I sent you a link to dispel the whole notion of idolizing America. Unless you check these things out and digest them, there is no further room for discussion. You need to get up to speed on these topics of the Lord’s soon and imminent return and also the fallacy of looking to America, that it will be redeemed. We sing “God Bless America” and God HAS blessed America far beyond anything we have deserved – but times are changing – we have reached critical mass and the prophecies of the Bible are coming to pass. America has refused to bless God and this is only escalating.

    Best wishes to you and I pray God will enlighten you and guide you!!

  • Christopher Henderson

    Dear Deborah,

    Thanks. Sure, it wouldn’t be a bad idea to make the editing time longer. Yes, it appeared that the countdown continued while the editing window was open. Actually if I’m not mistaken, the editing window closed before the countdown completed (while I was in the middle of making some changes). I could be wrong about that, but I don’t think I got a full 10 minutes…

  • Christopher Henderson

    Also, there are some other clarifications I’d like to make.

    When I stated that the counter-Reformation was still underway during the time that the Constitution was written, I neglected to mention the fact that the Jesuits, considered to be the heart of the counter-Reformation, were still considered technically non-existent due to the Bull of Extinction that had been issued in 1773. Therefore as of 1787, the counter-Reformation probably wasn’t “in full swing;” or at least wasn’t being carried out as overtly as it had been in decades/centuries past. However, the Council of Trent was still very much in effect at that time, as again it reportedly is today despite Vatican II–meaning that although the counter-Reformation had probably receded somewhat, it was still an ongoing concern. This correction doesn’t change the fact that ecumenism, which Realtime claims was the motivation behind the First Amendment, was NOT being preached by the Vatican during the time of the Constitutional Convention.

    Also, after taking some more time to think about Realtime’s questioning of our separation of church and state and American Dream, I find myself feeling puzzled. What would they rather have, the Council of Trent, inquisitions, and people being burned at the stake? I repeat that I like the Bill of Rights and every provision in it, as well as the American Dream–even having knowledge of America’s failings. The idea of God-given rights IS a Judeo-Christian principle, and recalls the second of God’s most important Commandments as expressed in the New Testament: to love our neighbors as ourselves. (No offense BL!)

    Now, when I stated that “if [America] isn’t great, it will one day be again,” I didn’t mean this as simply an expression of general optimism. There are some very powerful, non-partisan, moves that we can make to bring this about–and soon. One such move would be, as I said, to implement the Wanta Plan (which if some of the reports I’ve read are accurate, President Obama is in favor of); which would lead to a variety of beneficial outcomes for the people of the US and the world. Another one would be, again, for the government to allow a real 9/11 investigation; which in addition to revealing the complicity of Bush administration officials (seeing as even the most brutal punishment imaginable wouldn’t do a thing to alter the horrific impact of Bush’s/Cheney’s actions in this regard, I for one am not really that interested in punishing them), would more importantly give our military every reason to withdraw from Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. It’s not that I want us to lose these conflicts, mind you; it’s just that based on 9/11 lies we shouldn’t have been there to begin with. We need to get those men and women out of harm’s way, and back home where we can care for them. With a simultaneous implementation of the Wanta Plan, we can do this very thing, create a bunch of new jobs in the public and private sectors, and provide financial incentives for peace in I/A/P at the same time.

    (If energy-related concerns account for “why we really went,” well, we’re supposed to have about 1.5 trillion barrels of oil right here in the US. Even better than that, there are all kinds of free/renewable energy sources that can be rolled out to make us both energy-independent and easier on the environment.)

    I repeat: despite our failings, America is great. As with any temporal institution, however, there’s always room for improvement.

    I’ll get off my high horse now and go back to watching baseball!

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Christohper

    >> the editing window closed before the countdown completed (while I was in the middle of making some changes).

    oh crikey….

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    Christopher

    >> Now, when I stated that “if [America] isn’t great, it will one day be again,” I didn’t mean this as simply an expression of general optimism. There are some very powerful, non-partisan, moves that we can make to bring this about–and soon.

    Sorry I gotta laugh at this. LOL ;) You are sooooooo not looking at the BIG picture. Ordinary moves on a chess board are not going to stop the final check mate at the end Christopher. Get your ESCHATOLOGY sorted out and then you will understand the BIGGER picture.

    >> despite our failings, America is great. As with any temporal institution, however, there’s always room for improvement.

    You look at things from a worldly position where as a Christian you SHOULD be looking at things from a Christian BIBLICAL position and you are not doing that. BL is absolutely right.

  • Christopher Henderson

    Dear Deborah and Burning Lamp,

    I’m sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I’ve been giving your recent posts a lot of thought, and I wanted to make sure I had some time to collect my thoughts before responding. With sufficient reflection time having elapsed, let’s begin!

    In terms of “idolizing” America, with all due respect, I don’t think that’s what I’m doing. I hoped to make that clear by conceding a number of dreadful things America has done over the last few centuries. Indeed, being the victim of a grotesque, lifelong mind control experiment and a seemingly never-ending litany of COINTELPRO/Stasi terrorist attacks (no, I am NOT joking; although I wish I was), and a conspiracy researcher as well, I am in a somewhat unique position to witness firsthand the depravity and corruption that sadly appears to be prevalent in our society.

    Are said problems the be-all and end-all of America’s fate? Well clearly, upon Jesus’ return, everything will be sorted out. The check-mate at the end, which will be against our enemy Lucifer Satan (the “god” of the so-called elites who have led us so far astray), and an event that I pray happens soon (something we all can agree on!), will certainly be orders of magnitude more powerful than any move that could be made by whatever leaders are in power at the time. You’re definitely right about that.

    However, should being certain of what the Bible states will happen, and even believing that the time in which humanity’s Redemption is at hand is now (an assumption that’s very plausible, if not iron-clad; for after all, 1) no one knows the day and hour of His return; and 2) again, the cataclysmic events that many point to as signs of the End Times are arguably man-made, using high-tech superweapons), prompt our leaders to do nothing to help their constituents–or even worse, to partake in further corruption? In other words, should having faith lead them (and us) to be complacent, or even worse, apathetic? You might respond to this by stating that no, Christians who partake in soul-winning/evangelism aren’t apathetic at all; a point to which I agree. However, what about elected officials, military leaders, and the like? Whether they are Christians or not, they aren’t private citizens like we are. Their job is to promote the safety and well-being of the people. What do you suggest that they do–nothing? Just sit back and let injustice thrive? I’m sorry but I have a problem with this.

    ALL citizens/residents, whether in the government or not, and whether they are Christian or not, have a moral responsibility to do the right thing. For Christians, I believe that this imperative is even more pronounced due to the Parable of the Faithful Servant (Luke 12:35-48). Again, for private individuals such as ourselves, the kind of diligence the Lord requires includes obeying Him at all times in all that we do–from our professions to our family lives to spreading the Gospel. Although we don’t make big decisions affecting others on a national scale, I’d argue that any reasonable definition of civic duty ought to include our becoming aware of the issues that the decision-makers who represent us end up deciding on (a perspective that, based on my understanding of their worldviews, American Founding Fathers such as Washington, Jefferson, and Madison would have agreed with wholeheartedly). As for the decision-makers themselves, again, I feel that on the basis of loyalty, professionalism, and adhering to God’s Word (Luke 12:35-48, for example), they are obligated to act in a manner that promotes the overall well-being of the people. To do otherwise would be not only to betray the public trust and their oaths of office, but also to betray the Lord (a kind of malfeasance that brings harsh consequences, as the lazy and drunken servant in the parable discovers).

    What I am stating here is a point that you hopefully don’t find unreasonable: that the leaders whom the Lord will look favorably upon when He returns are the ones who are wise and faithful. That is, the ones who live up to their responsibilities and the trust we give them. With this in mind, why wouldn’t US leaders implement the Wanta Plan? Why not initiate a real 9/11 investigation? These two moves, if done wisely and judiciously, could do wonders to improve the lot of the American people. It doesn’t matter if you or I think the American people aren’t living up to what God has in mind for us, our leaders are sworn (on a Bible no less) to do right by us! On another level, our leaders are our neighbors; and as such are bound by God’s Word to treat us as they want to be treated! Seeing as without doubt, they don’t want to be lied to and defrauded, it follows that again, as God’s Word and common sense decree, they are duty and honor-bound to not commit those offenses against us!

    Deborah, please don’t get mad at me, but I feel like when you say “You look at things from a worldly position where as a Christian you SHOULD be looking at things from a Christian BIBLICAL position” you’ve pulled a bit of a bait-and-switch. Whereas before you stated that being a “friend to the world” means to embrace a sinful lifestyle (an interpretation that I thought we agreed on), now you seem to be implying that to care about anything or anyone in the world is to go against the Bible! While yes, we aren’t to care about anything or anyone more than the Lord–I understand that and totally agree–sorry but I don’t see wanting to see people’s plights improve and advocating on behalf of them as a bad thing. Indeed, isn’t doing so being a wise and faithful servant to the Lord?

    I agree with both of you when you state that I need to work harder to understand eschatology. After all, I am still a relative newcomer to the faith. And you could very well be right in asserting that my interest in improving the lot of the American people isn’t healthy. Then again, we’re supposed to have a government that’s by the people and for the people; and maybe, just maybe, I’m doing my civic duty in doing due diligence on what steps could be taken to improve matters. In this line of thinking, hopefully the Lord sees me as a wise and faithful servant (especially since thanks to His help I gave up alcohol a few years back :). Perhaps He might even view my hope and optimism as admirable, given the nightmarish existence the luciferian NWO has subjected me to via the lifelong mind control experiment I mentioned. In all seriousness, it would be very difficult to describe to you how much pain I undergo on a daily basis. I may not idolize America–as I stated, there are probably relatively few people who understand our weaknesses as well as I do–but let me tell you: just as I liked saying the words “liberty” and “government” when I was little, saluted the American flag as a youth in St. Louis, Missouri, and have lived the vast majority of my life here, I WILL NOT relinquish my hope and patriotism. The rogue alphabet soup agency punks who torture me on a daily basis and have been doing so for 30 years don’t have enough in ‘em to bring that about. (I was going to go on a rant about these cowards and how much I hate them–or at least what they do–but upon further review I don’t think that’s worthwhile. I just have to trust in what I know to be true: that God in His all-seeing, all-knowing, limitless power will hold them accountable.)

    In closing, I would like to thank both of you for taking the time to interact with me and for sharing your valuable opinions. Although I would like to converse more with you on this thread, I understand if you don’t wish to further discuss eschatological issues with me. Even though we may have different perspectives on certain points, I know that each of us in our own way is doing our best to serve the Lord. In other words, what we have in common is more important than our differences. Here’s hoping for Lord Jesus to return soon! May He bless all of you always.

  • Burning Lamp

    Dear Christopher,

    Thank you for your thoughtful discourse and charitable manner in which you express your views. The way you describe your private and personal suffering and struggles cannot help but generate empathy and compassion.

    If I may I would like to address several of your comments:

    You said, “a perspective that, based on my understanding of their worldviews, American Founding Fathers such as Washington, Jefferson, and Madison would have agreed with wholeheartedly).”

    I must ask you if you ever went to the site I recommended to learn the documented truth about the founding fathers? This should greatly interest you in your research. Until you take this step and digest that information you will continue in your faulty thinking. May I again respectfully ask you to look into this and then come back with your comments about it.

    You said:
    “that the leaders whom the Lord will look favorably upon when He returns are the ones who are wise and faithful. That is, the ones who live up to their responsibilities and the trust we give them.”

    The Lord will not “look favorably” upon anyone, regardless of their station in life unless they are trusting in His Son, Jesus Christ. Their good works, no matter if they are good leaders, kind, loyal and have all those good human qualities will count for nothing because there is no way to please God except through the sacrifice of His Son. If there
    was a way, Christ would not have needed to be sacrificed.

    You said, “I WILL NOT relinquish my hope and patriotism.”

    Christopher, our hope is NOT in any country, our hope is ONLY in Jesus Christ. No country on earth is worthy of our devotion – our true citizenship is NOT here – it is in heaven. Any good deeds we do here are not to honor our government, they are to honor our Lord and Savior. Yes, we are to care about the poor, but if we only feed them physical food and leave them spiritually bankrupt we have done a terrible thing. We are to live for God in all that we do, to glorify HIM and serve HIM. That means that we live by Biblical principles and keep the laws unless they are in conflict with the Bible.
    Yes, we are to be aware of what goes on in the world, but we have to acknowledge that this is a fallen world and the road is narrow and few will find it.

    If your hope is in a government or a country you WILL be disappointed. Christopher, here is the definition of “patriotism”. devoted love, support, and defense of one’s country; national loyalty.

    We are to love the Lord our God will ALL of ourselves. He is the ONLY One Who is deserving of our love and devotion. Anything we do is supposed to be done with Him in mind first and foremost. God has blessed this country despite the fact that we have spit in His face, killed His creations and legalized immorality. But His patience will not last – no country can retain greatness when materialism
    is their god and self reigns. Again, you will better understand all of this if you take a hard look at the origins I mentioned. Until you do that, you will not understand.

    I too wish you well and sincerely hope you will grow in your faith and understanding of eschatology and receive healing from your wounds. You are obviously a very sincere person who desires truth.

  • anon

    I was just wondering: is Pamela Schuffert a reliable source (she is mentioned in the last video about the guillotines)? I don’t know much about her but there is some weird info about her on the internet….

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    anon

    The info in this video is reliable, Pamela Schuffert however is not reliable, for instance she preaches that the church will go through the tribulation… which is not true.

  • anon

    I wonder why Greece is considered to be the safest country in Europe? (this is mentioned at the end of the video)

  • Deborah (Discerning the World)

    anon

    Errrr, that is a GOOD QUESTION.

  • Sharon

    Burning Lamp wrote:

    Debs. thanks for the clarification especially on Alex Jones who it isn’t clear where he is spiritually and also Pamela. She professes to be a Christian and no doubt influences many believers. I know Christians who are all wrapped up in Conspiracy Theories and their eyes are on man and not on the Lord. I do hope that this will be a lead-in for some folks to get on the straight and narrow and concentrate on the true threats – false teachings and wolves that are ravaging the flocks.

    Many blessings to ya!!!

    Thanks for all the great stuff you post and all your faithfulness and hard work.

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