Moreleta Park, Bruce Wilkinson and the Amazonic “Jesus”
On 16 May 2010 Dr. Bruce Wilkinson preached at the Moreleta Park Dutch Reformed Church, Pretoria to 7 000 people. He did not preach from the Bible. Instead he exegeted the revival that started in Andrew Murray’s church.
Before coming to Moreleta Park, Dr. Wilkinson prayed that the Lord would set this church free again. He asked Him what is going to happen to this church in the next five years and “I got an immediate sense of an answer. Immediately He said; “Well, they will be onto their third service in five years. This will fill, this will fill a third time. [Applause] But they must break through in ways that they have not yet broken through.”
When Dr. Wilkinson heard that Moreleta Park had started small groups, he did not believe it, because it goes against the tradition of the Dutch Reformed Church to do something less formal and new. [Note: According to their handbook for group leaders page 15, group membership is a prerequisite for membership of the church.] When he overcame his disbelief, he knew that they were in the midst of a growing revival that they have not yet identified. He explained that it is happening all over the world. Once a church has grown to Moreleta’s size, it bursts open into cell groups. And this is God’s doing it with a strategy in mind. The new model is finally here. This is the global new model of what God is doing. Cell groups are the next global move of God.
Not so fast. ‘Moreletas’ should see read The Transforming Church by Tricia Tillin
“Yes, hidden in the fancy rhetoric about the cell structure is the move towards an apostolic reformation of the Church, the leadership of self-appointed apostles and prophets, heavy shepherding, the removal of bible-study and classic bible teaching with a shift towards seeker-sensitive, social programs and self-indulgent “sharing”, and the tracking and databasing of all church members.
It is a shift away from preaching the gospel for individual salvation, and the subsequent teaching, bible instruction and discipline which is needed for individual sanctification; a shift towards “growth” because numbers are all-important in the race to convert the world, therefore anything that does not contribute to numerical growth in your church MUST GO. It is also a shift towards mass conversion of people-groups, and a shift towards what is called “discipling” which is another word for CONTROLLING church members once you have them under your cell roof!
Even the supposedly biblical and attractive proposition of ending the monopoly on ministry that the Pastor and elders have had for many years, transferring power to the people, and showing them the principle of every-member ministry – even this has a sting in the tail, for not only are the members of cells strictly led by shepherds, mentors, disciplers and elders in a pyramid structure to rival that of Rome’s priesthood, BUT the effort being put into the transferal of ministry functions is primarily to “tap the resource” that is in the churches: ie, to train up millions of obedient little workers to go out and harvest “the unchurched”. Put in that light, the “paradigm shift” doesn’t seem so innocuous or benevolent.”
Moreleta Park is committed to achieving results, bring in the ‘harvest’ through their small groups. Their Bible Study Guide for August to December 2009 bristles with instructions on doing just that. As far as I can tell, they only study Jesus Christ as an example and not as Saviour.
In the Bible Study Guide there is a commitment form Moreletas have to sign. Tricia Tillin explains the danger in The Covert Strategies of the False Revival:
“The Cult of Confession: encouragement of self disclosure to members in the group. Often in the context of a public gathering in the group, admitting past sins and imperfections, including doubts about the group and critical thoughts about the integrity of the leaders. This serves several purposes. It provides a ‘release valve’ for the convert to purge the old ways out of his system; and gives the leaders foreknowledge about possible threats to the group. It also gives the leaders a list of sins to hold over the person’s head if there is any threat of withdrawal.”
Here is the first five commitments in the Moreleta Park Study Guide:
My commitment as a care group member
1. Unconditional love – I undertake that I will not allow anything to taint my love for each one of the group members. Even if I don’t agree with someone’s opinion or ways, I will still love him. Even if we have disagreements, I will still care for them and God’s love and grace will take priority. I will lovingly reach out to others who have not yet joined a group and I will endeavour to reach out to them and encourage them to become part of the group.
2. Availability – I will avail my time, energy, insight and gifts to the group. I undertake that the group will be of high priority to me and this will be evident through my willingness to sacrifice and afford my time to the group.
3. Committed intercession – As expected by our loving Father, I undertake to pray for each member of the group on a regular basis. I believe that God hears and answers each prayer and that each person will experience the blessings of God through prayer.
4. Transparency – I promise to share my feelings, struggles, burdens and joy with the group. I will be open and entrust the group with my problems and life goals.
5. Absolute honesty – I undertake to be honest with the group members, even if it is about hurtful and sensitive matters. I will speak the truth in love (Eph 4:15), conscious that the Lord uses us to form one another.
I presume that the Moreletas do sign that form before they study their marching orders as set out in the guide. And march they must. Moreleta Park is committed to reach 10 million souls in 10 years in exchange for for their pastor Elza Meyer’s life:
“During the Eastern Cape conference demons attacked my body. We were unable to break the effect thereof until I phoned my son, Pieter, late that night asking him to pray for me. He claimed 10 million souls, saved and baptized in exchange for the attack on my life. It immediately stopped. The Moreleta Park congregation was led to formulate a new goal for the congregation, namely 10 million souls within ten years. The overriding aim is to reach 10 million souls with the Gospel and to make them disciples of Jesus Christ. (Emphasis added)”
And so, back to the sermon:
Dr Bruce Wilkinson says, “Four weeks ago I was at one of the great churches at Atlanta, Georgia and their minister of music is a young man [Note: unnamed] whose father I discipled for about twenty years. And this young man and his wife with four children are just remarkable, like your worship team here. He is the number one worship leader in all of Europe. He has his own label. He goes throughout Europe leading praise and worship meetings. And as I spoke for a week at this conference, the church almost this size, I had lunch with him and I said to him: “You have been all over Europe. When have you seen the Lord the most? Tell me.”
He said: “It wasn’t in Europe. It wasn’t even in the US. It was down on the Amazon River.”
“The Amazon River?”
“Yes. They invited me to come lead worship. It took us two days on a canoe down the Amazon to find the place [Note: unnamed]. There were people from all over that were there.”
He said: “The worship was so intense. The hearts of people were so hungry for the Lord that”, he said “the worship was beyond anything I have ever experienced and we were pleading with Jesus to come Himself.” [Note: When Jesus Christ and Him crucified for the forgiveness of sins is not preached, people do starve, just like Bruce’s Bibleless sermon.]
“I stopped eating and I leaned forward and I said: “Did He come?”
“Yes, He did.”
“He did? What happened?”
He said: “It was when the disciples were praying for Peter in prison and didn’t believe that God answered their prayer.” He said: “Here we were for two days asking for Christ to come and just walk among us and He said ‘yes’.”
“He did? What was that like?”
He said: “He showed up at the back of the room.”
“This man is not a, mmm, this man is very reasonable. Just for those of you who is thinking he is wild eyed or something. “What happened to him?”
He said: “He began to quietly walk down the aisle”
He said: “Everybody on both sides of the aisle fell down. Quietly we stopped singing. Everybody, everybody saw Christ. Everybody! We all got quiet. And as He walked, everybody fell down and everybody was healed. Everybody in the building that were sick, were healed. Everyone. He came across the front. He stopped. He went in the back and He said: ‘Continue worshiping’. And He left.”
[Chuckle.] Oh, may He come. May He come again.
7 000 people and nobody corrected Bruce:
The Bible says:
Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. (Mat 24:23-27)
Bruce asked the people to raise their hands if they had a sense that they wanted more of God. The raised hands were confirmation that the Lord has prepared the place for a miracle. But the only way that could happen is if the church will be more obedient and if they would humble themselves by kneeling and crying out to the Lord that they really want it. Bruce wanted to encourage them to break through and said,
“Tonight will be the first major breakthrough. Tonight will be a night of many miracles in this building. But it must be preceded this morning by something highly unusual, because we’re not here talking to you as an individual. I am not talking to you, Bruce to you. It is Bruce to Moreleta Park church, a great body of believers. And God is inviting the church, as a group of people, to break through in a way that South Africa has not seen for 150 years. God does not want the good old days what we talk about. He wants today to be the day in which He breaks through. But you and I must make a choice as a church…”
“It is the church of Moreleta Park that is asking for a revival. Is it not? …
“And therefor I have a question for you. How far will you go in getting prepared for God to come? How far will you go? How far will you humble yourself? How sincerely will you cry out as the coloured girl did? She shook heaven’s door. One young girl shook the throne of heaven with a plea of sincerity that God couldn’t say no to. He couldn’t say no to the girl. One girl. Will you r e a l l y beg heaven to come? Will you humble yourself? Will you seek the throne of heaven directly, directly in your mind, in your heart, in your imagination? Will you enter the throne room of the Almighty because of the blood of Christ we come boldly onto His throne and will you ask heaven: “God Almighty, I want it. You. I’ll do anything You ask. I will do anything You ask. Just ask, but one thing I will not accept, that You will not come.”
“I believe, therefor, that the first step, that the purpose of this service was simply to one thing. It is to prepare the way for tonight. It is to humble our hearts together this morning and then it is to watch God tonight do the first miracle that He is going to do at this church. And it is going to be a big one.”
At the end of the sermon he coerced the people to come forward, to kneel down and to cry out to the Lord. Soon he had to stop the people in the aisle, as there was no more space left in the front and the crying out commenced. According to his own estimate, 6 000 people threw of the restraints of their heritage and did as they were told to do, with the tantalizing story of Jesus appearing on the Amazon still ringing in their ears.
In Moreleta Park’s June/July Newsletter page 4 we learn that miracles happened all over the place [wonderwerke oral heen]. One person is quoted as saying:
“Wow… Jesus was verseker daar, dalk nie in die vlees nie, maar ek het Hom so ervaar dat daar nie regtig woorde is nie.”
My translation: “Wow… Jesus was surely there, maybe not in the flesh, but I experienced Him in a way that words cannot describe.”
I find it incredible to believe that Jesus Christ would turn up if He were not preached during the sermon or that their newsletter would not report on the big miracle of that night as prophesied by Bruce.
I also find it curious that Bruce Wilkinson chided the congregation as if they were a staunch Calvinist church. Moreleta Park is a platform for Elza Meyer, Stephan Joubert, Angus Buchan, Dion Forster, Tony Campolo and Bruce Wilkinson himself.
No, getting the Moreletas to kneel in the church and to cry out for Jesus Christ to appear bodily, is not pushing the boundaries at all. They are ready to go much further in their blind obedience to their pastors who insist that they need to be like Jesus. That is a pretty tall order, considering that on their mission page, they only have Law, obedience and works, but no Gospel.
[Note by DTW: Bruce Wilkinson is also best known as the author of the New York Times #1 bestseller The Prayer of Jabez. Contemplative prayer at it’s best, Bruce Wilkinson teaches people to recite this 33 word prayer from 1 Chronicles 4:10 every day to receive great blessings in their lives. He apparently has been reciting this prayer over and over and over again for the last 35 years and can report a great blessing in his life as he sold over 22 million books on telling people to recite the Prayer of Jabez over and over and over again. There have been no reports from other people who bought the book and helped make Bruce Wilkinson a fortune.]
Fiona
Phew ! you have some homework to do from myself, Deborah and Amanda. 🙂 Please take your time working through it all. My prayer is that you find the truth and learn to test and prove all things.
You must also go and read this post please. From Darkness to the Light… by Prof. Johan Malan, Middelburg, South Africa. You can read it here:
fiona
This writing will stay here forever, but will move down as more people add comments of course. Nothing is deleted.
fiona
I really do pray you sift through everything slowly and more importantly I urge you to open your bible and start studying it. The best place to start to look at topical references and study the bible that way. It’s long and hard work! It’s not easy. But if you love Jesus the way you say you do you will want to learn, and baby steps will lead you from one little bit of truth to more truth to more truth and so on and so one and soon because of your obedience to listen to the Holy Spirit He will open up and show you a whole world of understanding on the Bible unlike you have ever imagined.
Nonsense. Total Rubbish. Ask them for the proof and you will not get it. In fact go and read the fantassssticccccc episode of “days of a profit’s life” here: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/11/06/what-a-tragedy-prophet-kobus-van-rensburg/ read all the comments and see how when we ask for proof, the excuses are enough to make a grown man cry.’
PS, also take note of the lovely curses they throw our way.
More on Kobus here: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/05/06/kobus-van-rensburg-self-anointed-prophet/
hellO Deborah, I really thankyou for all the stuff you have posted and written for me. Especially that excellent article by Johan Malan is very helpful. But I think we are getting our wires cossed now! I was getting the impression that you all do not believe that the Lord heals at all- and never in public in a revival type church, and that if healings do go on in a church like that, it can only be demonic or this kundalini spirit.
But I think the Lord DOES heal in some churches. In the church near me, in the midlands in the UK has a very good bible believing church where scores and scores have been documented as being healed, with the result being that people have given their lives to the Lord. No barking or funny behaviour or toronto funnies! But more and more come to the church because the healings are documented and are genuine and people from other faiths are becomming christians.( also they refuse to advertise; people only come by word of mouth!) I know about 5 years ago that 19 sikhs had cut the turban and been baptised to follow the Lord. and many muslims also, a great miracle!! Ive gone to the tuesday evening “Ministy of power” healing service for about 5 years and seen people be healed. My own father in law was an atheist at 79 but he was so unwell he came to the church- at our insistence! – and the ulcers which he had had for 2 years and which the doctors said COULD NOT be healed were prayed for on tuesday night. He came back from the front of the church with tears in his eyes ( very unusual for him as he was quite a violent and angry atheist!) and by thursday his two rather massive ulcers on his legs were gone! The result was that he gave his life to the Lord and made peace with those he had fallen out with. When he died a year and a half later- he was a believer! I have other christian friends who were healed and are still strong believers, reaching out to others.
I do very much take your point that there is a counterfeit spirit ( the devil loves to beguile and deceive) but I have seen these miracles and the devotion to the Lord in this church abd the way they reach out many many broken people in out community and overseas. I believe there is a need for discernment, but why shouldnt the Lord reach out to the lost in a world of such darkness and hopelessness. I do appreciate your prayers but my concern in coming on this website was that I heard it said that ALL healing and words of knowledge were from the devil. I think its far more like likely that there is a little of each, which is why there is such a need for discernment.
also, I would add that I have learned a lot from this website and am grateful for the good work you do!
I do have one more question- do you believe that when we pray for people and they are healed, that if there is anything not good in us, that that is the thing which does the healing? Because I have seen healing! Cannot the Lord override what is going on, if His name is used??
as happened with my friend who was definetly healed at a benny hinn meeting years ago.I agree that Benny hinn is probably in error, but She is still healed and still believes in the Lord and goes to a bible believing church to this day- and gives glory to God for her healing! so what is going on there? This is where the confusion comes in! Is she saved or not? She believes she is and walks closely with the Lord Jesus. But IF (IF!) a kundalini spirit healed her then, why is she still healed, why is she still at peace, why does she still believe? Or, because of her own personal BELIEF in the Lord Jesus and because she went with faith to that meeting, was it the Lord who healed her, inspite of Benny Hinn, because He, the Lord, is sovereign, and responds to prayers in the name of Jesus when real faith is used.?
fionafiona
I think you need to understand what the kundalini spirit is first before we go further.
What Is The Kundalini Spirit? Please follow link : http://www.thebereancall.org/node/6100 you can listen mp3 to what Dave Hunt says or read the transcript at the link.
and more info :
Holy Spirit or Kundalini?
By Mishel
Record numbers of Christians have been flocking to Lakeland Florida to experience the supernatural. They yell for fire with all the exuberance of a college football game, however nowhere in scripture are we admonished to seek a supernatural experience or demand God’s presence. Certainly the Holy Spirit was not given for our entertainment, nor was He given to fulfill our lust for fleshly thrills. Fire Fire! More Lord! We have become a people so driven to seek after the experiences of God ; to make Him real to bring Him down to us. However, God has called us to live by faith. Remember Jesus said that it is a “a perverse generation seeks after a sign.”
In the book of Revelation at the time of the end, in the last few years of Satan’s dominion, a charismatic religious personality will arise and deceive the whole world by means of miraculous signs and wonders. If signs and wonders are the fruit by which we judge whether a ministry is from God, then we are indeed on very shaky ground, and ripe for deception. So how are we to know? Revelation clearly tells us that the false prophet will be able to call down fire from heaven! However, Elijah, who was a true prophet of God, called down fire from heaven! So how is one to know the real from the counterfeit? The end time is prophesied to be a time of great deception; however Christians seem to feel that they are somehow immune to it. I have to ask myself why any blood-bought Christian would want to indulge themselves in supernatural experiences that have no Biblical precedent but yet parallel occult experiences in every way. Most alarming to me personally, are the unmistakable similarities between this fire they are calling down, and the fires of Kundalini.
One can read about some of these manifestations here http://www.deceptionbytes.com/Todd-Bentleys-Fire-of-Kundalini
When New Agers, Gnostics, Mystics and Occultists refer to a “Baptism by Fire” they most surely do not mean what the Christians mean when they use that same term. However, there are striking similarities- so again, how are we to know? The esoteric meaning of “Baptism by Fire” is the moment of arousal of the Kundalini power, or simply “the awakening” as the mystics call it.
Kundalini is an Eastern concept of enlightenment in which, through meditation, electrical energy moves up 7 chakras and impacts the pineal gland bringing forth spiritual enlightenment. When the Kundalini awakens it causes certain manifestations. If you compare the manifestations of the rising Kundalini with the manifestations in Lakeland Florida you will find that they are identical in every way. When we openly accept manifestations that have no biblical precedent yet mimic those of the Eastern religions in every way, we have to seriously re-examine our doctrine.
The following quote came from a website that supports a world wide awakening of Kundalini. It shocked me that even the Mystics see it clearly! “So if you call it Kundalini the people in Christian circles will run from it. If you call it the Baptism of the Holy Spirit the same people will run to it.”
read more here: http://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2008/06/02/holy-spirit-or-kundalini/
Once you clearly understand what the kundalini spirit is it will become clear that it is a false spirit and not the Holy Spirit. One thing I can say it is dangerous for any Christian to even think that he or she could be healed at a Benny Hinn crusade !!!!
fiona
Fiona can you supply us with one medical proof of one of these healings that took place please ?
Fiona have you read my posts to you about? : “Are faith healers for real? Does a faith healer heal with the same power as Jesus?” and also “What does the Bible say about healing?”
by only reading these two articles you should by now understand that you are being lead around by your nose by false spirits in believing that heallings takes place when man says is does. GOD DOES HEAL IN HIS OWN TIME AND AT HIS WILL NOT MAN’S WILL. Please understand this clearly. Sorry but you are asking the same Q’s over and over and i’m getting a bit frustrated and wondering what is the real point to your Q’s. One should test everything to see whether it proceed from God. Fiona it is my prayer that you Pray and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance in these matters you are having problems with. The Holy Spirit will always reveal the truth to us as true born again Christians He will never never leave us with doubt about anything we question in our live. A wise thing to remember is that when you have doubts about something it could very well be the Holy Spirit prompting you to move away from something that is false.
Another question: Please give me one Biblical reason as to why faith healings should take place today? please don’t provide me with an opinion but Scripture to this question.
Luke 8:8 (Amplified Bible)
8And some seed fell into good soil, and grew up and yielded a crop a hundred times [as great]. As He said these things, He called out, He who has ears to hear, let him be listening and let him [a]consider and understand by hearing!
fiona
I will post this again for you :
“What does the Bible say about healing?”
Answer: Isaiah 53:5, which is then quoted in 1 Peter 2:24, is a key verse on healing, but it is often misunderstood and misapplied. “But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.” The word translated “healed” can mean either spiritual or physical healing. However, the contexts of Isaiah 53 and 1 Peter 2 make it clear that it is speaking of spiritual healing. “He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed” (1 Peter 2:24). The verse is talking about sin and righteousness, not sickness and disease. Therefore, being “healed” in both these verses is speaking of being forgiven and saved, not physically healed.
The Bible does not specifically link physical healing with spiritual healing. Sometimes people are physically healed when they place their faith in Christ, but this is not always the case. Sometimes it is God’s will to heal, but sometimes it is not. The apostle John gives us the proper perspective: “This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of Him” (1 John 5:14-15). God still performs miracles. God still heals people. Sickness, disease, pain, and death are still realities in this world. Unless the Lord returns, everyone who is alive today will die, and the vast majority of them (Christians included) will die as the result of a physical problem (disease, sickness, injury). It is not always God’s will to heal us physically.
Ultimately, our full physical healing awaits us in heaven. In heaven, there will be no more pain, sickness, disease, suffering, or death (Revelation 21). We all need to be less preoccupied with our physical condition in this world and a lot more concerned with our spiritual condition (Romans 12:1-2). Then we can focus our hearts on heaven where we will no longer have to deal with physical problems. Revelation 21:4 describes the true healing we should all be longing for: “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
http://www.gotquestions.org/healing-Bible.html
fiona
Just an excerpt posted please read complete article at the link provided.
Instant Conversions and the Absence of Sanctification
Prof. Johan Malan, Mossel Bay, South Africa (July 2010)
Superficial conversions
During short mass-meetings, and also on television, solutions are offered to successful modern people for their moral and spiritual problems. A good life on earth, as well as eternal life in heaven, is offered as a bonus to the “good people” of modern times. These blessings are easily obtainable by merely raising their hands and praying a short prayer after the preacher. Following that, they are declared to be saved and are ensured of eternal security.
At times, instant conversions of this nature are accompanied by the confession of sins, but very few preachers insist on that. In Rick Warren’s non-offensive gospel, for instance, people are not branded as sinners, as the emphasis in the gospel message is directed towards the big advantages of being a Christian. The crowds receive it with joy without counting the cost of repentance. The things which people have to abandon are not highlighted – only those things which they will receive towards a happier and more prosperous life, as well as improved self-esteem.
The Lord Jesus described false conversions of this nature when He said: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away… He who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles” (Matt. 13:3-6, 20-21).
These instant converts received the word with joy and consequently regard themselves as Christians. But joy is a positive emotion which the Bible does not present as the first reaction of salvation. A person who repents is under deep conviction of sin and experiences remorse because of his sin (1 John 1:9). “The Lord is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit” (Ps. 34:18). Only after the sins which were dragging a person to hell were confessed and forgiven, a feeling of relief and joy will be experienced by the saved person.
If the matter of sin, as well as confession thereof and being cleansed from it, is bypassed by only emphasising the advantages of the Christian life, the door is widely opened for false conversions. Many people would like to hear that they will go to heaven one day and rule with Christ if they only raise their hand, join a church, and regularly offer contributions to one or other preacher. The problem is that the lives of such “converts” did not change fundamentally and permanently. Subsequently, they again yield to temptations to sin and then continue with their old life. They don’t make any spiritual impact on society or on their churches, and everything just continues as always. It is highly deceptive to refer to situations where hundreds or even thousands such instant conversions occur, as revival. The Bible does not do it.
Conclusion
Very few Christians live holy and victorious lives under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is much easier to seek after supernatural experiences, or to sit back in an easy chair and hide behind the excuse of positional sanctification which you allegedly received with your salvation. Such people do not know what it is to be a co-worker of God through Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit.
Because this power is absent in their lives they later reach the point where they reject the doctrine of sanctification as a second work of grace. Then they try to serve the Lord in the power of the flesh. That is a futile exercise as they cannot really edify other Christians and build them up spiritually if their preaching is not in the demonstration of the Spirit and of power. They first need to be endued with power from on high (Luke 24:46-49). Carnal preachers offer instant solutions to salvation and sanctification, without any emphasis on counting the cost of a complete surrender which the Lord expects from us.
We should not be followers of other people, as the chances are good that we will be deceived. Rather do intensive Bible study and allow the Holy Spirit to be your Tutor. Spend much time in prayer, so it can become quiet in you heart to hear the voice of the Lord. The Spirit of God will guide you into all truth – not only about salvation but also about a pure, holy and fruitful life in His service. “For this is the will of God, your sanctification… He who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit” (1 Thess. 4:3,8).
“Pressing into Jesus”
I have not read any of the above posts with care as yet. While simply just scrolling down through the above, I noticed the use of the emergent term “pressing into Jesus” . Please, could we refrain from the use of that term as it is simply belittling of our Lord Jesus, it makes absurd claims and displays irreverence for the sacrifice which was made by Jesus.
While I do know what the term intends to portray, the very nature of the intent is questionable. We can humbly go onto our knees and beg Jesus to accept us, forgive us and keep us from further error, but we certainly do not have the ability to press into Jesus. It’s like saying we can put God into a box and from similar sources.
These are among the most irreverent terms coined by mostly non-Christians. We can press into a queue, but not into the Lord.
Fiona
I am curious. Does your friend encourage other sufferers to attend miracle healing crusades to receive their healing?
I was healed at a miracle crusade
Fiona, explore the links at the bottom of the article linked to.
Grant, thank you for pointing this out. I am always glad to see your postings. I think that the intent of this usage is well-meaning, but we should examine our words and expressions to be sure they line up with Scripture. I do like the exhortation to “press on” in the midst of adversities and disappointments.
Philippians 3:12 NKJV
[ Pressing Toward the Goal ] Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.
Philippians 3:14
I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
Your comment got my curiosity up. I found this reference to “pressing in”.
Luke 16:15-16 (New King James Version)
15 And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
16 “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
I am not sure what is meant here by “pressing into the Kingdom”. Do you?
Burning Lamp
Likewise, it is always a privilege to share thoughts here with you. As you mentioned, I also presume that the usage of the term here, had good intent at it’s root. However, used in the manner for which it is intended by the New Agers, it assumes a surreptitious motive.
I think you have attached the precise scripture in Luke 16:16. Here Jesus is warning that, since the advent of the New Covenant, ever increasing numbers of those who had formerly been under the Law and now were aware of the fate awaiting them, were using any and all manner to force their way to salvation. His discourse was particularly directed at the Pharisees and the like, who were covetous of any form of godliness. They assumed that they could to press their way into God’s favour, force God’s hand, by means of self justification and self importance.
It is interesting to note the various translated versions of the word “pressing” in Luke 16:16.
NIV: “..and everyone is forcing his way into it”
ESV: “..and everyone forces his way into it”
NASB: “..and everyone is forcing his way into it”
ASV: “..and every man entereth violently into it”
Douay-Rheims: “..and every one uses violence towards it”
Weymouth: “..and all classes have been forcing their way into it”
Bible in basic English: “..and everyone makes his way into it by force”
I am in full agreement with “pressing on” in terms of perseverance. “Pressing into Jesus” however, is hard for me to type and weighs heavily on my conscience…
Burning Lamp
I forgot to add the first version which I checked, which puts it into even clearer perspective:
Luke 16:16 (Amplified Bible)
Until John came, there were the Law and the Prophets; since then the good news (the Gospel) of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone strives violently to go in [would force his [a]own way rather than God’s way into it].
Enlightening – coming into the Kingdom of God by our own efforts – man’s way. In reality, we come to God’s Kingdom in surrender, knowing there is no righteousness in us. What a twisting of truth. Thank you for ripping the mask off of this.
To all
Jesus said on that day many would come and say,’Lord didn’t we cast out demons in your name didn’t we heal in your name’ yet He shall say depart from me you workers of iniquity I never knew you.
Based on this my opinion is that it doesn’t matter that one prayed for you in Jesus’ name and you got healed, it doesn’t count one bit that the person is a christian.
Paul
Are you saying that it doesn’t matter whether the person doing the praying is a Christian or not, or are you saying that it doesn’t matter whether the person being healed is a Christian or not?
It is important to remember that in Matthew 7: 22,23, which you mention here, Jesus is speaking about people who are not true Christians, but those who falsely try to cast out demons or heal using His name. Among these are the multitudes of false preachers and false healing ministries who will be turned away from the presence of the Lord.
Therefore, you are correct if you are saying that a Christian cannot cast out demons or perform healings, and claims by people to these things are false or attributable to their false gods. The circumstances and instances where these things actually do take place, are exclusively through the mercy of God, by His hand alone.
Jesus would never turn away true Christians. True Christians would also not be the workers of iniquity, who would be trying to cast out demons or perform healings on behalf of the Lord.
If this is what you are saying, Paul, then of course, you are in agreement with Biblical teaching.
Just for interest sake -google Peace Palace Astana or `Palace of Peace and Accord…..`The World interfaith movement meets there in a perfect pyramid!
Moemsie
Did an article from the link you provided. Thanks.
http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/09/11/palace-of-peace-and-reconciliation-located-in-astana-kazakhstan/
I cant believe the rubbish spoken about Angus Buchan he is a true man of God I dont see anyone else going out in faith to reach the men of S.A Shame on all the peole who spoken negatively about him,thank you Jesus for men like this who preach the gospel the truth .Go to his farm and see what he lives in yes the same house that the zulus helped him build no mercedes no porches just a humble man .If it were not for Jesus giving this man the ingenuity to make a film on how he was saved and the miracles he performed i would still be in a deep dark pit the Holy Spirit touched my heart and now i belong to Jesus Christ Hallelujah we love you Oom Angus continue being an instrumen for God.
Leon Williamson
Oh there are more articles if you would like to read them: https://www.discerningtheworld.com/category/pastors-teachers-speakers/a/angus-buchan-shalom-ministries/
Leon, I suppose you follow Angus on all the wicked networks he is involved with such as TBN, God Channel, etc. Yeah, that really edifies you and helps you in your Christian walk. If he cared about the truth he would not be in bed with all those false teachers.
You obviously don’t know what the Gospel truth is, only his version of it. How about getting out your BIBLE and just allow the Holy Spirit to teach you?
Oh by the way, it would be fine for Angus to have some porches on his house down on the farm – that would not be too extravagant.
Please open your mind to what Deborah is trying to warn you about – don’t follow blindly – and it sounds like you are more thankful to Angus than the Lord drawing you through His Holy Spirit. God has used many instruments to reach people – it does not always mean that they are those He would prefer.
We are truely greatful for this website and your wisdom! I hope I am not too late for a comment on this topic. I forwarded this article to a friend in Moreleta to warn them, but they were furious to say the least. They said that they are definitely not studying Jesus only as an example, but as true saviour. I know them well and I know that they completely believe in Christ as their Saviour. I am however concerned that they will fall for anything that is dished up in that church as that is their tradition and she is so afraid to break with the NG Church as we grew up in it. On the other hand, I also know that she is very much afraid of going the wrong direction and that is why she is not willing to try other churches. She sees clearly what the other cell group members are trying to follow incorrectly and she has lost against them and now just keeps her mouth shut. She is not a fighter and would rather go alone to her room than to debate something, which is very dangerous for her own salvation as she is only holding on to our teachings in the NG Church and that is it. I do not know if this is really good or bad.
Watchman
Thank you for your comment and it’s never to late to comment.
Moreletta is a lost church; they have been preachiing New Age teachings for quite some time now. It would be better to leave, or better yet OPEN your EYES to what is really going on there and let the HOLY SPIRIT guide you 🙂 You can NEVER go in the wrong direction if you listen to the Holy Spirit.
As for her personality. We all have different personalities, she might not be a good fighter because confrontation scares her – she gets stuck trying to search for the right answers, but if she is meant to debate the Holy Spirit will find her an aveneue in which to do it. Maybe the she is not meant to say anything. However, staying in false teaching for the sake of not wanting to cause an argument is dangerous. Rather just leave, in fact run!
Deborah, I am on your side. I cannot find any person at Moreletta NG Church who can forward me the news letter reporting on this incident. Could you PLEASE forward it to me?
Deborah, I keep returning to your site and it’s a really great work you’re doing.
I despair at friends of mine who have followed some of those “Christian” charlatans–such as Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland and Todd Bentley. I mean, they do not even come remotely near to being biblical.
I had a sister who went to a charismatic church. My wife and I occasionally went there too. It astonished me the drivel that people there believed. Though, I have to admit, some of those deceivers are quite credible. I swallowed the guff of two or three of them myself because I didn’t believe anyone would dare to represent the true God knowing they were ripping people off.
Naive or what? The Bible makes it clear that such people will make MERCHANDISE of us [2 Peter 2:3]. Jesus warned us more about deception than anything else.
I know people who think they themselves are soundly biblical and yet they believe stuff which is anything but biblical. They are signs and wonders seekers thinking by being so that they are seeking Christ.
Anyway, my sister contacted a particularly virulent cancer and ran after all those so-called healers, virtually throwing money into their ministries. She raved on to me especially about Jesse DuPlantis who I thought, by her constant praise of this man, had to be some great Christian. That was until she gave me a video of DuPlantis in action.
When I saw it, I was dumfounded that any half-sane and quarter sensible person could believe a sentence of what that ridiculous quack was “preaching.”
One friend of mine became furious with me when I ridiculed DuPlantis’ teachings. Even now, I am at a loss for words at how an intelligent person could defend such a blatant rip-off merchant. How can people who believe in Jesus Christ, and in the inerrancy of the Scripture, fall for the bilge that comes out of the mouths of these charlatans?
Anyway, my sister not only ploughed money into the DuPlantis ministry but she did so into other equally wacko groups.
A couple who were called Rory and Wendy gave one of their shows at the charismatic church we were attending. Though my sister told Wendy she had cancer, Wendy told her (after “listening to the Lord”) that she was going to be okay. Yeah, right. My sister’s cancer got much worse and she died in terrible agony. Had she not been listening to those healing merchants and listened to the doctors when she could easily have been operated on, she may have lived to be with us today.
I know a lady who truly wishes to follow Jesus Christ–or so it definitely appears to me–who, when I was telling her some easily checkable facts on Billy Graham, told me that she didn’t want to hear them. But this hero worship is not unusual. If people would just heed 1 Thess 5:21 and I John 4:1 rather than make gods out of men, they would have less chance of being deceived.
Sadly, when people put any man or woman above the Word of God, they are virtually making a god (even God) of that person. That means they are idolaters.
I once read, “A man who makes a god out of his religion won’t have God in his religion.” It, of course, is true but the same applies if he makes a god out of a person or anything else. And it will cause him to stumble.
We all make gods of things in our lives (at least I have). But as long as we realize that we do and keep on our spiritual toes by constantly going to the Scriptures and asking God for guidance, we don’t have to worry too much.
You honour God, Deborah, by contending for the faith as you do. Keep fighting the good fight.
Understand that Dr. Bruce Wilkenson is a Freemason of the highest order. Google him in this respect and you will be amazed at what you uncover. His “prayer of Jabez’ is an attempt as a substitute to Christ. Remember that “anti Christ’ means instead of Christ, not just against Christ…..very subtle and very dangerouse……looks so innocent on the surface….but fraught with deception. Don’t be fooled by this pridefull wolf in sheepskin clothing with his hidden agenda. The Lord warns us that in the last days even his own elect will be deceived by satin appearing as an angel of light. As the word says, be as wise as a snake but as gentle as a dove.