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Emergent: Why Can’t Everybody be Right? 
 Emergent: Why Can’t Everybody be Right?
by Bob DeWaay – April 19th, 2010
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DTW has decided to remove this article because even though Bob DeWaay is correct in his thinking regarding Emergent error - Bob DeWaay is a Calvinist and DTW will not support this heretical doctrine in any way. It was only after posting this article by B. DeWaay that we found out he was full on Calvinist.
So… Why can’t everyone be right? Because if you are not following the Word of God then you are wrong.
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I am not a fan of those “emergents” who seem to have deconstructed christianity completely. However, I am increasingly aware that there are many aspects of faith where there are multiple options within the boundaries of biblical doctrine. The fact is that we all see “through a glass darkly” and so we all have an imperfect understanding of faith. So I’m not sure that there is much point in endless arguments as to what the correct interpretation of the Bible is. I think there needs to be a balance between certainty on the essentials of the faith and flexibility in secondary matters.
Ironic that Bob Dewaay can be on target about some things but Bob is a Calvinist. I even corresponded with him about it one time years ago as I picked up on something in one of his writings. He was kind enough to reply – I am sure Bob is a great guy and he writes some good stuff. He even referred to a conversation he had with Dave Hunt with Dave trying to sway him away from that doctrine but he was not convinced. LHT uses Bob but I don’t even read his articles anymore. Little differences are to be overlooked and grace extended, but this is a biggie. I have lived long enough to see Calvinististic error lead to further error. Look at JMcA, Washer and others I could list. I simply don’t trust them anymore.
Burning Lamp
>> Bob is a Calvinist.
Yes, after I posted this article I went to read some of his other stuff and realised that this is true. Now interesting to see (as with John MacArthur) that they are spot on on 95% of things, but when you get down to the very nity grity of the Calvinistic doctrine it’s a sesspool. and yes, this is what is going to lead people over the cliff in the days, weeks and months to come…
Hmmmm…. *thinking* ok I am going to post my next article I found that will show one what happens when you think the blood of Jesus is just liquid and you are elected, therefore in no need really to be saved by Jesus.
Andrew Smith
Are you back again for round 2?
>> I am not a fan of those “emergents” who seem to have deconstructed christianity completely.
So you are only a fan of those who are deconstructing Christianity a little here and a little there? Pfff
There is ONLY one interpretation of the Bible! if you don’t like it go create your own religion and leave my BIBLE ALONE – thank you.
>> I think there needs to be a balance between certainty on the essentials of the faith and flexibility in secondary matters.
You don’t even know what the essentials are and now you want to be flexible on secondary matters? LOL.
Revelation 22:18-19 “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. ”
Does that verse make your knees quiver?
please check out my website [URL REMOVED] on the subject of apostacy.
amedeo
I have just started to read your first page. I am about …. eerr… 2/5 of the way down. This is great stuff!
[EDITED: I retract my, "this is great stuff" comment. Your stuff seems very biblical, but... I will carry on reading... ]
Amedeo, are you affiliated with the group known as The Way International?
Amedeo
Yes, I saw ‘The Way’ thing and wondered what that was about?
“In our modern world we have many different denominations of Christianity, non of which can actually prove from the bible that they are so to be called. Example: Roman Catholic church. Where is it written that the Christians should so call themselves? Example: Reborn Christians. Where is it written that the Christians should so call themselves? Both these are but titles taken from a certain aspect of Christianity; Catholic meaning universal and certainly Jesus is the ruler of the universe. To be reborn into the kingdom of God likewise is part of Christianity,but the point been that we were not asked to call ourselves by these titles. The only three mentions to describe a group of believers in the bible are:
Originally; Those of the way. Followed by: The Christians, and also the followers of Christ. That’s it!”
BL
Didn’t ‘The Way International’ come out with their OWN translation of the bible? Or am I thinking of another group?
Amedeo
You say on your site:
Impossible. If a catholic is saved they WILL leave this blasphemous religion. If they stay then they have no conviction of the Holy Spirit in their lives.
So… Why can’t everyone be right? Because if you are not following the Word of God then you are wrong. ABSOLUTELY RIGHT DEB!!!!
Impossible. If a catholic is saved they WILL leave this blasphemous religion. If they stay then they have no conviction of the Holy Spirit in their lives. DITTO.
Just wanted to give you a cheer from the cheap-seats.
Blessings,
Alan.
Thank you for your interest Deborah. I am not affiliated to any organization. I don’t know the way international and I prefer the king james and the amplified bible. I’m not interested in starting any new denomination but rather want people to read the bible for themselves.
I will relook ‘the way” and see if it is giving the wrong impression. The intention is to give the reader another perspective to go and look at because often people think you must belong to the reborn class or the catholic class, both of which I clearly am against the theology of.
The statement of catholics truly believing in Jesus as their personal savior is very real. Often these will not go to that church because of their inner conviction and wonder about somewhat confused. My experience is that if I come against harshly they turn away and run.
However your input is highly valuable and I will most certainly look into this.
Burning lamp
I don’t know the way international. Actually I was a catholic and left may years ago. Then attended a year bible school at a charismatic church were I was infuriated every time and not allowed to ask questions. This led to my leaving that church and becoming a spiritual hobo ( as they put it) I’m quite happy and don’t have a clue what loneliness feels like.
All I want I to do is to continue searching for these truths and expose apostasy everywhere. Yet be of help to those who genuinely believe in Jesus who alone is our Christ.
Alan Heron
Thanks for your input Alan. Following the word of God as absolute authority in our lives is surely right. Hence to love even our enemies is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
My entire site is against catholicism not for it. I will have to re visit my comment as I hear your arguement, however what is bugging me from within is that non of us have reached perfection just yet and probably won’t till the Lord returns. That means that the Holy Spirit deals with us individually at different levels. I have seen charismatics come out of false religious systems at very slow intervals until completely set free. What was needed was love and patience because the counter arguements are many.
For example a catholic (or anyone else for that matter) could answer you; The Holy Spirit isn’t seated in the cheap seats either!
Amedo
>> My entire site is against catholicism not for it.
You contradict yourself. Earlier you say: “The statement of catholics truly believing in Jesus as their personal savior is very real. Often these will not go to that church because of their inner conviction and wonder about somewhat confused. ” No, if one is genuinely saved you will get out of false doctrine completely.
>> I have seen charismatics come out of false religious systems at very slow intervals until completely set free.
Agree. But what do you mean by slow? If one hears the truth and then carries on with the false then you end up going backwards instead of forward. You confuse growing in small intervals through the guidance of the Holy Spirit as HE SHOWS YOU THE TRUTH and are convicted of it over and over and over again to abandon false teaching in comparison to someone who abandons false ‘religious systems’ and are maybe ‘set free’ from what they were in, but yet have actually come out of false doctrine.
>> For example a catholic (or anyone else for that matter) could answer you; The Holy Spirit isn’t seated in the cheap seats either!
Hmm… anyone, even a Catholic? So would a Hindu who says they are a Christian and follow Jesus be able to say that too? The Holy Spirit is seated (abides) in born again Christians ONLY. And He does not speak one message to one person and another message to another person. There is only one truth. And here you are defending Catholicism.
Btw I see on your site and I did ask this earlier that you have 3 names that a Christian can call themselves; one being The Way and some other names. Yet to say that one is a born again Christian is totally wrong. Want to explain this please?
While you are at it, please add Catholic to the list as a 4th name ;)
Deborah
I most certainly do not defend catholicism and Jesus knows how many times I have spoken to catholics about the falseness of this belief system.
>> But what do you mean by slow.
certainly for one to come out of false doctrine entirely and into the truth as soon as possible is wonderful and I wish this was always the case. But in trying to help others it is not always the case because already do they know that they were once deceived and are naturally defensive to any one elses beliefs. It takes patience, like the patience like Jesus had with His disciples.They increasingly came to know the truth. jesus didn’t just cause them to know all the truth in a split second.
Paul also spoke about spiritual milk for babes and meat for the more mature. Again it takes patience to wait on the Holy Spirit for truth in agiven situation. Anyone claiming to know all truth immediately remains somewhat suspect.Instead we should be of help to each other as brothers and sisters searching for the truth.
2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season;correct, rebuke and encourage – with great patience and careful insruction.
As such my comment to you was that I “did” appreciate your input and that I “would” look into it.
But suddenly you just attack me. Why? How did I offend you?
Is it that you are having problems trying to fit me into a category? I am neither a catholic nor from the way international (whom ever they are)
Why would I want to add catholic to the list as a 4th name when it doesn’t exist in the word?
So does that mean because I was once a catholic 30 years ago I cannot be reborn?
It seems you are upset about the “born again/ reborn” title issue.
Lest you be born again ye shall not inherit the kingdom of God. This is a fact not a call for naming and branding. When it comes to naming Jesus said call yourselves brothers and sisters …. not reborn or born again,catholic ect. That is my point on the fact that the early christians were called “those of the way” by some and simply christians by others.
The point more over is that the title is not what makes one saved – it is the fact that makes you saved.
To belong to a born again church and call oneselve a born again christian is not a biblical command, it is a title. In fact many are there who call themselves reborn and are not but rather are deceiving the entire world to believe that theirs is the only church of Christ when in reality they are drenched with apostasy.
To be born again is an experience when the inner spirit dies in the death of Jesus Christ and is regenerated into the life of Christ by the same Spirit that ressurected Jesus to life – the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit will want to lead that person then from within their spirit but can only do so with the consent of that person. And often what happens is that the person becomes excited and goes off on a tangent believing to be led by the Holy Spirit when in fact they have reverted back to useing their soul power and left true spiritual discernment that they started with far behind.We all do that more often than we would like to admitt.
To gaurd ourselves from this mistake we should remain humble and remember what it is all about to start with – love.
What does it help if we have such great minds and can show everybody how wrong they are and how right we are – but we have no love?
Christianity is not about titles it is about what Jesus did and Is – LOVE.
Perhaps what I can do from my side is re write my comments on the “the way” as it was not my intention to make it sound like some belief on it’s own or some kind of subcult method.
To be sure if I understand your view on a catholic not been saved;
I seem to think that you are saying that one cannot be saved and continue with ritualistic behavior and belief. I am in full agreement.
If you have read my entire site you will find that I come down quite hard on the catholic belief system. Yet my heart is sore for them as much as those sitting in reborn churches following false apostles and prophets believing they have it all worked out.
And I still believe that the Holy Spirit can speak to these people “anywhere” like He spoke to us. Do you remember where you were when the Holy Spirit spoke to you for the first time? Was it heaven? Or were you just as lost as everybody else believing a lie?
Honestly Deborah, I’m not interested in fighting. I’m interested in becoming equipped to help others. Again, useful comments can help to do this.
Let us both remember that (Zephaniah 3:15)The Lord your God is with you, He is mighty to save.
amedeo
As you said, you asked for my advice in the very beginning. So I am now questioning you on things on your website which will hopefully make you see there are things that are not right. Use it don’t use it. I do not force anyone to listen to me. You do what you want. AND I am not attacking you.
No if you read what I have said, I said if you were Catholic and are now reborn you will come out of Catholicism completely and will never tell someone that there are catholics who really do live Jesus. See my point where I agree with you on the Holy Spirit speaking to us. BUT you can’t just generalise this. There are many people who really ‘love Jesus’ yet it’s another Jesus and they don’t know it.
I agree totally. But you place huge emphasis on this title thing and I don’t agree with this. I am a born again Christian. It’s not a title I give myself, I am expressing that I am reborn.
I never said He does not. There is a difference between Him speaking to us and vs the person actually coming to accept Jesus Christ and having the Holy Spirit come to abide in the individual because the person listened to what the Holy Spirit was saying. As you stated above.
There are many who call themselves Christian and are not Christian. There are many people who say they are ‘followers are Christ’ yet they follow another Christ. And I have read of cult groups where the members call themselves ‘The Way’. This is what I am trying to say.
This is the third time I am asking this question. Explain where you get your 3 titles from. But now I want scripture that says a Christian must call themselves ‘the way’. I say that I am a born again Christian because this is what I love to tell people; that I am born again. Jesus is the one who is The Way.
Thank you for your comments.
I did not tell you that I rewrote article on the way. Sorry my fault. It is on the same link at [URL REMOVED]
In short Acts 9:2 and 24:14 points out that the early Christians under persecution where referred to as “those of the Way.” the Way of Jesus.
I certainly do not say that Christians must so call themselves and fail to see where you get this from. Perhaps you might be concerned that I might be from a cult called “The Way” which you said exists. I assure you I am not. In fact if such a cult does exist I will even change the link name.
You are right in saying Jesus is THE WAY and He is likewise the reason for us been REBORN. hence my point with the title issue.
You see most of modern day false apostles and prophets hail from the REBORN/ BORN AGAIN churches. It is from these churches that dominionism, earth governing heaven, the kingdom of God on earth by force, and the preaching of another Jesus also comes from by way of soul power instead of the spirit of truth.
So to say that catholics cannot love Jesus is to say that neither can those from reborn churches, for both are proven to preach another Christ.
But my heart will not allow me to say this yet. It is a hard saying.
I am in agreement that the best would be for people to get out of false churches altogether. And where would that leave a person from a reborn church?
Likewise why would a person come out of a catholic church and into a reborn church when both are drenched in apostasy.
What I do like is your explanation of useing born again christian as form of an expression rather than a title.
Your site is a good idea for those wanting to find out the truth by way of discussion and I thank you for this. It could be used positively as an edification tool for people at the various levels of their spiritual walk. Let us beat the devils intentions of wanting to mess things up by remaining calm and patient with each other. After allthese are notthe easiest topics to talk about.
Amedeo
Cool :) One thing to remember. The church is the TRUE Body of Christ not a building or system. They are individuals scattered all over the world) that will be raptured by Jesus Christ shortly.
Nah nah, understand this. You have no idea which Jesus Christ they really love until such time as they come to genuinely accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour. After this they will want to abandon all false teaching and grow as the Holy Spirit shows them the truth and leads them out of all this rubbish.
Don’t worry about what people call themselves. It’s not important. Unless of course it’s some really weird name. What is important is; are they genuinely saved.
Deborah
Agreed.
The church is the TRUE Body of Christ – not a building or system. They are individuals scattered all overthe world that will be raptured shortly!
Yes, yes, yes.
I could print a T shirt that says “please Jesus hurry … I can’t take anymore!
But instead I suppose we must pray for more strength to hold on, and try our best to make other people see exactly this.
And if that is your bottom line ….. then I have a genuine sister in the spirit of Christ.
Keep up your good works
You Said:
“DTW has decided to remove this article because even though Bob DeWaay is correct in his thinking regarding Emergent error – Bob DeWaay is a Calvinist and DTW will not support this heretical doctrine in any way.”
So Bob is correct in his thinking on Emergent, but since he is a Calvinist I’m removing his article…..
It appears you agree with Bob on Emergent thinking. I believe Bob is opposed to this theology, this is seems apparent in his writings, so it appears you agree with him.
I see you have links to Rob Bell, yet Bob is removed because he is a Calvinist = heretic?
So can we assume Rob is not a heretic because you have links to his writings?
BTW, I guess I would consider myself a Calvinist, am I lost? I also believe in eternal security of the believer, since God choose me.
Just saying…..
Please disregard my above comments. After reading many posts and esp. the replies it seems this is a site under the thumb of a few who if you disagree with the response is snide and answer is you are lost. Calvinisim, Armenianisim, what ever. It’s Christ who does the saving. I don’t merit it, I cannot earn it, it’s free. If I could lose it, I never had it…… Nevermind, have fun arguing with yourselves.
No Body
Um, Bob De Waay is a Calvinist, just because he is correct in his thinking regarding Emergent teaching does not make the doctrine of TULIP all of a sudden OK.
And if you READ PROPERLY you will see that the articles I have on Rob Bell are articles where I QUESTION his teachings.
You know if you are a Calvinist or not, you know if you follow all 5 letters of TULIP.
Just saying…
No Body
After reading many posts? I doubt it. Did you READ PROPERLY? No. So go take your sarcastic comments elsewhere.
No I just looked at the responses. God Bless.
I still cannot grasp your logic. So you just wont link to anyone who is a “Calvinist”, but everything else is OK?
No Body
No, it’s not about the person. It’s about what they teach. I’ve had countless headaches linking to people only to find out later that the stuff they teach (in this case, SALVATION) is based on a horrible false teachings.
Read this article and then tell me you still think anyone who willingly follows Calvinism (someone as intelligent as Bob deWaay) is truly a Christian or not. http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/10/13/unconditional-election-and-total-depravity-are-gnostic-teachings/
The crux of Calvinst teaching is very simple. They believe that God pre-chose certain people to be saved and the rest he pre-chose to go to hell – so no matter what you do, if you are Chosen you will go to heaven and to bad so sad for you if you were the unlucky one to be chosen by God to go to hell. So Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross is completely in vain. This is NOT the Gospel of the Jesus Christ.
No Body
You can’t just read the responses on this article and come to a conclusion. There are conversations with people that span across multiple articles and some of the comments get very heated because of previous comments made. Read the articles and understand the articles and only then make your conclusion.