Andrew Strom gets it WRONG again…

This is becoming a habit Andrew and very irritating.  Come now, stop it.

This email just came into my mailbox from REVIVAL List by Andrew Strom.  Read and Laugh.

~~~~~~~~

REVIVAL in SOUTH AFRICA

ANDREW:  A couple of years ago I was in South Africa and wrote when I got back how encouraged I was to see how God was moving in that nation – especially amongst the white Afrikaners – which was powerful and amazing. Below is another report of the great things happening in that country:

~~~~~~~~

My name is Jeff Zak, and I am a minister in Nelson BC, Canada.

I just came back from South Africa, and attended the Mighty Men’s
Conference at Shalom farm, with Angus Buchan-  450,000 men
were there – [they only expect 300,000 for the World Cup there] it
was a powerful and incredible time – I know of one other Canadian
who was there at this time… repentance was preached at all
sessions – thousands of first time professions of Christ took place…
we were awakened art 4:30 am by the bugles for prayer at the
camp… I stayed with a group of Australian brothers, and a
pastor from the Congo…  

My father died while I was there, and I could not make it back
for the funeral, and my family encouraged I complete the itinerary
[My wife and I, Marilyn, have six children] – however, I later had
the privilege of preaching in colored churches, and a Congo
church in Durban SA and an Indian church in Petermirizberg -
these people are hungry for God – the Zulus are up at 5 am praying
daily while I was there – one church of colored people in Cape
Town had been on a 21 day Daniel fast when I arrived, and were
breaking it today… so it was easy to speak there in that atmosphere…

So, there is a prosperity message problem in some
churches, but not in the township churches I visited-  God is also
doing great things, and revealing the cross, His sacrifice of His
Son for the sin of mankind, and his love for those who turn to him…
I believe I saw revival breaking out at the camp MAC 2010, and
pray God will move throughout Africa & the earth… a pastor brother
from Nigeria shared that they are experiencing revival in his area as well…

http://www.johnthebaptisttv.com/

YES! – You have permission to post these emails to friends or other groups, boards, etc – unless there is something different written in the Copyright notice above.

———————-

Why are we laughing Andrew?  Because you can’t tell the truth from a lie if it jumped out and bit you on the nose.   You say you moved away from the New Apostolic Reformation and Peter Wagner et al YET Andrew… this is going to come as a shock to you, but Andrew…

*going to give the bad news too you very gently*

Angus Buchan and the whole Revival in South Africa is part of the New Apostolic Reformation.  Yes, your friends :)

Please see here for the truth, if you care Andrew.  And in case you didn’t know, Revival in ‘False Christian terminology” really means a Transformation to Socialism.  http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/04/20/what-did-you-think-revival-meant/

Now that you know this, will you stop promoting Socialism?  Or will you once again prove to us that you are a false teacher supporting the anti-Christ? 

We wait with bated breaths, but we won’t hold them too long.  I think 10 seconds should do it.

The Might Men Conference 2010 was supposed to be the LAST MMC by Angus Buchan (dubbed The Completion).  Their numerology calculations was based on the fact that there were 7 MMC’s and 7 is the number of completion.  Then after Eugène Terre’Blanche’s murder they realised they needed to go back to their numbers so they calculated 7+1 = 8 and that gives them reason to hold 2 MMC’s in Soweto (The number 8 being the number of new beginnings). 

Also the Global Day of Prayer that will be held in South Africa soon has Cindy Jacobs as a speaker and George Otis Jr.   Yes, Andrew… and it’s no mistake on their part.  Angus Buchan is part and parcel of C. Peter Wagner’s NAR.

See articles below on who Angus Buchan and Cosmic Christ following friends:

See Related Posts on this Topic

• The Dominionist Faith of Angus Buchan - Faith Like Potatoes
• Angus Buchan and the Promise Keepers
• Graham Power & Angus Buchan - The Transformation of Africa
• National Initiative for the Reformation of South Africa - NIRSA
• Andrew Strom - Trying to Transform Africa with False Christianity
• The NEW but Quite OLD Apostamation and Refopostasy
• Andrew Strom sends his sheep into the 'Unusual'
• Turn2God at the Union Buildings was...
• Dion Forster and The Drive By Rebuking Video
• What did YOU think Revival meant?
• Cape Town for 'Dion, Graham and Angus' 2010

Posted by: Deborah (Discerning the World) | On this date: May 6th, 2010 | Tags: antiChrist, Apostasy, Apostolic, Australia, bible, Canada, Christ, Christian, church, Congo, contemplative, Daniel, DiscerningtheWorld, DiscerntheWorld, Durban, End Times, error, Faith, False Prophet, False Teaching, God, heresy, Holy Spirit, Jesus, man of Lawlessness, Manifestation, meditation, Nigeria, Pastor, Pietermaritzburg, prophetic, Reformation, Religion, Revival, South Africa, Soweto, Spirituality, Theology, township, truth, Youth, Zulus - Categories: Andrew Strom, Angus Buchan, Shalom Ministries, Atmosphere, C Peter Wagner, Global Harvest Ministries, International Coalition of Apostles (ICA), Charity, Social Welfare, Cindy Jacobs, Communism, Marxism, Leninism, Communitarianism, Cosmic Christ, Planetary Buddha, The Christ, Disaster, Murder, Violence, Pandemic, Atrocities, Genocide, Emerging Church Movement (ECM), New Evangelical, Postmodernism, Enlightenment, Illumination, Spiritual Wisdom, Transcendental, Fasting, Feasts, George Otis Jr, The Sentinel Group, Global Community, Humanity, Planetary Citizens, Global Day of Prayer, Latter Rain, Word of Faith, Prosperity Gospel, New Order, Manifest Sons of God, Manchild Company, Law of Love, Law of Grace, Leadership, Social Networking, Mighty Men Conference, New Age, Age of Aquarius, New Dawn, New Apostolic Reformation NAR, New Breed, New Thought, Higher Life Movement, New Wine, New Wineskin, New World Order NWO, One World Religion, One World Government, Numerology, Pythagorean System, Promise Keepers PK, Prosperity, Wealth, Money, Riches, Materialism, Repentance of Sin, Socialism, Redistribution of Wealth, Utopian, Uncategorized |

22 comments to Andrew Strom gets it WRONG again…

• cecilia

  6 May, 2010 at 4:49 pm

  pheeeeeeww! blown away!

  
• Burning Lamp

  6 May, 2010 at 6:20 pm

  I would say read it and cry. Cry out of grief for Strom’s blindness and ignorance. He could be compared to someone with a deadly disease who underwent treatment and thought it was cured but in fact it is still viable. In a twist of irony he is now a carrier of this deadly disease of which he claims to be “cured”. That makes him more of a threat than when he went for it whole-hog and when it was coming in through the front door rather than sneaking through the back as it is now.

  Note my post under the Angus thread – he is now welcomed at the 150 anniversary of the Andrew Murray revival. What a travesty!

  
• Elmarie

  6 May, 2010 at 7:33 pm

  Yikes !!!

  
• Deborah (Discerning the World)

  7 May, 2010 at 1:38 pm

  Burning Lamp

  Yeah I should have said, ‘cry’ instead of laugh. But I’ve run out of tears.

  What amazes me is that there are MANY websites who exposed WoF and NAR and when Andrew Strom said he no longer supported them then they all jumped for joy and now support him. So I went and looked for a common denominator on these websites – they are Calvinists. What shocked me more is that I used to be able to comment on these websites back in the day. When I tried to tell them about Andrew Strom and tried to explain the Transformations movement to them my comments were deleted. Could not even get 1 comment on there. 1 comment would have been fair.

  I then received a nice email from one of the blog owners who I used to respect telling me. ‘Sorry for deleting your comment, I just felt I had to do what I had to do’. Okaayy then… whatever that means. Obviously trying to cover up what they ‘really’ follow.

  So what were these so called discernment blogs really against? Prosperity. They had no clue about Transformation and don’t want to know about it because they can’t see how ‘being nice to someone and sharing’ is bad. When it’s not about that – it’s about the underlying false doctrine that accompanies it.

  That reminds me. There is a blog I used to comment on a lot that I need to speak against now. I have been convicted for a long time by the Holy Spirit about this, and the only reason I have not done it, is because I am embarrassed to say I was caught by the owner of this website because I WANTED TO BELIEVE they were legit. See, what I ‘thought’ and what God was telling me all the time were 2 different things. Oh boy… can you see why I have run out of tears? lol What a disaster.

  
• Geoff Pick

  7 May, 2010 at 2:28 pm

  Good for you in exposing Andrew Strom.
  He is damaging the unity of the body of Christ
  and hurting the leadership that is being raised up by God
  teaching the whole Gospell that displaces the denominations who have given only half measures and are full of teachers that deny the power of the cross.

  Strom’s so called discernment is well off, pure prejudice.

  See below

  Stroms own writings show he lacks real discernment.
  http://www.revivalschool.com/toronto.html

  THE “TORONTO” CONTROVERSY – DISTURBING NEW FACTS FROM HISTORY
  by Andrew Strom.

  Strom misses real deception and fails to reveal the key facts.
  He quotes in the article Jessie Penn-Lewis as an authority on exposing deception.
  If Andrew is really discerning he would realise that she was a very questionable influence on the Welsh revival and a major source of damage?

  Please read the below – it is the most chilling example of deceptions ever to touch revival,
  I quote from:

  http://www.sermonindex.net
  War on the Saints by Jessie Penn-Lewis and Evan Roberts

  J. Penn – Lewis is thought by some to be the primary reason the Welsh Revival was quenched. In it’s height, Roberts quit leading, and moved to her estate. Evidently there were some issues with unruliness and “order.”, and the manifestation of devils in the meetings. Penn-Lewis influenced Evans to see it her way. This book, WAR ON THE SAINTS was written there. 6 months after the revival, which had a strong social impact…in that the Pubs shut down, and the jails empty and arrests were Nil…not counting a general repentance from the coal mines to the fabric mills…everything reverted back to it’s former realm of unbelief. Evans tried to make a comeback, but it could not happen. He never returned to ministry of any kind. He never married, and became a poet…mired in general obscurity.

  Mrs. Penn-Lewis continued as a speaker, and was well known in her circles and at various conventions.
  She Prophesied, and recorded them, and believed that her prophecies held the same authority as the Word of God, and God himself spoke as she did.
  One of the phenomena of the Welsh revival was worship; the singing of hymns and songs, for hours and hours during their meetings. There was not , in general , anointed Apostolic preaching and instruction as it’s base….and in my opinion was the core reason why it crumbled. Eventually, as I see it, it was turned over to a controlling woman , who saw fit to discredit it; and Evans Roberts was culpable. It is a very sad testimony in the annuls of revival, but one that we should glean from.

  Revivals must be stewarded by mature and holy men who cling to the Word alone, and have the authority to prune it when necessary, and to nurture it…by allowing the Lord the Spirit to rule alone.

  Considering Penn-Lewis? Maybe it was her who was warring against the Saints.
  http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=25727&forum=13&7

  Second account http://www.jonhamilton.org
  Many people became associated with the revival as it grew. Among these was a well-to-do woman named Jessie Penn- Lewis. For years Penn-Lewis had considered herself a Bible teacher, but she had never found a broad acceptance for her teachings. She had largely been rejected or ignored by most church leaders in Wales. At first, Jessie Penn-Lewis appeared as a friend and financial supporter to Evans Roberts. She gained his confidence, and began speaking into his life.
  Long time friends of Evans Roberts expressed concerns that she appeared to isolate Roberts too much, but Roberts trusted Penn-Lewis completely. She began to minister certain messages to Roberts, which appeared to him to be profound corrections from the Lord. These filled him with condemnation. He was convinced her deep “truths”were things he needed to hear.
  Mrs. Penn-Lewis began to express her“concern”to Evans that with the revival’s great success, perhaps too much glory was going to Evans Roberts instead of to God. The thought of stealing God’s glory horrified the sincere young man. He began to think that perhaps others should lead for a while.
  Penn-Lewis convinced Evans Roberts to withdraw from public ministry, and to move into the Penn-Lewis home. Evans Roberts never returned to the ministry. The Welsh revival ended quickly and quietly.
  After a short time in the Penn-Lewis home, Evans Roberts began experiencing severe bouts of depression. Often he was unable to leave the bed for days at a time. He appeared nervous and anxious. By today’s standards he was in severe clinical depression. It took a toll on his health.
  Meanwhile, Penn-Lewis began writing articles and letters in Evans Roberts’name, and on his behalf. These were published in both Roberts and Penn-Lewis’name, and eventually, in her name alone. According to many former close associates of Evans Roberts, some of the works attributed to him could not possibly have had his approval.
  http://www.jonhamilton.org/The%20Nature%20of%20Our%20Enemy.pdf

  By aligning himself with Penn-Lewis, Strom enters the very place of association with deception.
  This is one of the most chilling example of deceptions ever to touch revival, yet self appointed arch heretic hunter Strom totally misses it
  (giving Penn-Lewis his implied approval).

  Can Stroms discernment really be trusted ? I think not.

  Geoff

  
• Deborah (Discerning the World)

  7 May, 2010 at 3:57 pm

  Hi Geoff

  Quick question, what do you mean by:

  ‘He is damaging the unity of the body of Christ?’ and ‘hurting the leadership that is being raised by God’?

  I have split your sentense into a two part question.

  Thanks

  
• Burning Lamp

  7 May, 2010 at 4:02 pm

  Deborah, I share your sentiments – I am weary of all of it. Did you intend to name the blog? If you did, I missed it. My computer is dong weird things and the print has turned tiny and I haven’t figured out yet how to fix it. I have been told that Berit Kjos is Calvinist but I haven’t verified that. I know Tim Challies, Apprising Minidtries, Pirate Radio, Mike Gendrum, Ingrid Schlueter are all Calvinist. Oh, forgot Bob Dewaay. Not sure about Bud Press.

  It seems that the truth and sound doctrine are not important to the discernment community anymore either!

  I have run out of tear also, but am just angry at the hypocrisy. You seem to be the last “man” standing – this blog has become a snactuary for those still clinging to Truth. Of course you will be hated, but you are strengthened by the Lord to
  hang tough.

  What is frustrating is that no one wants to hear and they look at anyone with their head on straight as if they had 3 heads. Please Lord Jesus, come quickly!!!

  
• Deborah (Discerning the World)

  7 May, 2010 at 7:48 pm

  BL

  >> Berit Kjos is Calvinist but I haven’t verified that. I know Tim Challies, Apprising Minidtries, Pirate Radio, Mike Gendrum, Ingrid Schlueter are all Calvinist. Oh, forgot Bob Dewaay. Not sure about Bud Press.

  I know :( I thought they were ok too until recently. There are stacks more. We can just pray that they change their tune and see what they have been caught up in – we all make mistakes and when we realise our mistakes we… change our ways and get back onto the narrow path with Jesus.

  The blog I was referring too where they support andrew strom is pjmiller. wordpress .com – they also link to Early church fathers that links to links on the Blessed virgin Mary etc. When I asked about this too my comment was deleted. Also some other strange stuff on PJMillers site.

  The other blog I will write a full article on as I need to get the article from their website with my comment and show it to the world and then apologise for being a CHOP! I tried to retract my comment by apologising there publicly and they deleted it, so they leave me no choice but to apologise here. Their mistake.

  
• Justin

  23 May, 2010 at 1:05 pm

  This is what I see.

  1. Andrew Storm has left the Kansas City Prophets. NAR. He seem to have sympathisers in the calvinist ( another false teaching) that now has Paul Washer as their flag bearer.

  Either way he has yet to go into the wilderness like Paul, Abraham or Jesus and learn the truth for himself. If he had done that he would quit the speaking circuit and just share real truth he learns each day.

  I see 2 false revival
  1. False lying signs and wonders.(JOhn Chowder, Todd , NAR etc)
  2. False holiness – by scare tactics. Big difference between conviction and condemnation. Holy Spirit convicts not condemns, the devil condemns. The gospel convicts and provides the Good News. Not usescare tactics to produce a bunch of instant calvinist like Paul washer.

  Justin John

  My question?

  Do you have evidence this is so? That he has aligned himself with Calvinists and running his own show. Thank for this post. I put on my Facebook Page.

  
• Deborah (Discerning the World)

  23 May, 2010 at 1:55 pm

  Justin John

  Can I just add a bit to No.2 What is really meant by revival is Social Transformation. http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/04/20/what-did-you-think-revival-meant/

  I don’t remember saying that Andrew Strom has aligned himself with Calvinists. But I see you say that he has. I am confused. lol. Who are you asking this question too?

  
• Justin

  23 May, 2010 at 3:58 pm

  I am asking if Andrew Storm has aligned himself to calvinist. Not you. Do you have evidence if he has. Now that you mentioned. You (deborah) are you a clavinits? lol. Justin

  
• Deborah (Discerning the World)

  23 May, 2010 at 5:14 pm

  Justin

  No I am not a calvnist. I just exposed Calvinism and have a hard time because did. See here: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/04/20/paul-washer-practice-the-presence-silence-and-meditation/ and http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/05/16/john-macarthur-the-blood-of-jesus-is-just-liquid/ and
  http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/05/16/ingrid-schlueter-celebrates-holy-cross-day/

  Re Strom aligning himself with Calvinists. Well that is something I can alwaaaaays find out :)

  PS, If Andrew Strom replies to you on this blog then consider it to be a sign and wonder lol.

  
• ELIZABETH WRIGHT

  26 May, 2010 at 7:37 pm

  My son ran off with Andrews group and said he could have nothing to do with us because we were materialistic…Andrew Strom is a pied piper youth pastor who wants no Adults in his ministry because they are a threat! My son has since left the group and we are waiting for him to come full circle…we still see lingering false beliefs…

  
• Deborah (Discerning the World)

  27 May, 2010 at 5:14 pm

  Elizabeth

  Goodness. Does Andrew actually have a church group? I’ve never really bothered to check. Are there many of them or just one? You know it’s difficult responding to comments like yours because when you hear things like this it’s shocking.

  I see he is now going on about a new thing called the Emergent church that is gaining ground. Oh my word… this guy is so in another time zone.

  
• M'Kayla

  3 June, 2010 at 9:51 pm

  Hi. I’ve wondered about Andrew myself. Sometimes he says things that seem right and other times he sounds just like those he claimed to have separated from. I also get the impression he writes about things that others have already exposed, in a way that makes them sound like they are his own “revelations”. I know we all learn from each other but there is a pattern I have been seeing with him. I also cannot stand it when anyone who refers to themselves or their ministry as John the Baptist. It was either Dutch Sheets or Lou Engle who just recently did the same thing, and when I saw Andrew’s new endeavor with the same name it really bothered me. They are not preparing the way of the Lord; He has already come. ugh.

  Having come out of charismania – healing rooms – false prophetic – the supernatural – myself I am still working through what I believe. I have a blog in which I warn others – mostly in what I personally experienced, but sometimes use the experience and teachings of others. Some of them you have named here. I guess we all need to pay very close attention to who we trust and take teaching from.

  I appreciate your time and focus. Thanks for the work you do.

  
• Meg

  3 July, 2010 at 9:03 am

  Thank you for exposing Andrew Strom. I was on the e-mailing list and I didn’t know about his false teachings until I run into your page. I did have a facebook link of him and his group, but something was telling of my back of my head when I see the word ‘Revival Teacher’. I only see the word ‘revial’ and I begain to qustion it, but I bush it off. After I read this article, I go ahead and remove him from my facebook page and I send a e-mail to remove me from the mailing list. I did not know the word ‘revial’ is not found in the Bible. I need to check these people out before I know if they are really preach a Biblical truth.

  
• Tom

  7 July, 2010 at 6:40 pm

  Meg,

  Just because the word “revival” isn’t in the bible doesn’t mean that it’s unbiblical. God has revived the church many times throughout it’s history.

  Deborah,

  Just because someone is what you call a “Calvinist” doesn’t mean they’re a heretic. Some of the men that God has used the most in the history of the church have held some of these beliefs.

  
• Ian Armstrong

  6 September, 2010 at 1:23 pm

  Calvinism is the teaching of the reformation and is a true interpretation of sound Biblical doctrine. No other body of teaching adequately explains salvation by grace alone and revelation through the Bible alone. If I had known these things earlier in my walk with Christ, I would have avoided the errors of Pentecostalism and the Charismatic movement.
  http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm

  
• laura

  6 September, 2010 at 10:50 pm

  Andrew Strom was not allowed to enter the US – he has now gone back to Australia/New Zealand. Maybe this will be his wilderness experience and by GOD’S grace, will find Truth.
  We all were in error some time or other. none of us were born with truth.
  Grace AND Truth to you all in Christ Jesus
  http://www.johnthebaptisttv.com/2010/08/29/our-next-move-andrew-strom/

  
• Burning Lamp

  7 September, 2010 at 4:23 pm

  Ian, you think you have found the truth, but you have bought into yet another lie.

  Read the info exposing the errors of TULIP and Calvinism on this site and then do your own research. It is a heresy of the worst sort because it guts the true biblical Gospel.

  
• Elmarie

  7 September, 2010 at 8:05 pm

  Ian Armstrong

  Subject: Troubled by Calvinists
  Question:

  Dr. Craig,

  I am troubled at the mass amount of calvinists I see who are incredibly intelligent and trustworthy christian leaders. What I mean is that, So many seem to be capable of great analysis (far beyond myself), but seem to stick their head in the sand when it comes to the problem of evil. If they don’t, then they tend to make God a self-contradicting being. Why do you think this is so?

  Im also personally troubled at how few leaders I see subscribing to molonism. It seems to me that it answers the most questions and creates the least problems. I understand it can be complex, but I wouldn’t think we would just rest with the problem of evil not being satisfied. I don’t base what I believe on the beliefs of others, but we can’t ignore the influence others have in our lives, or the desire to have a home with others when it comes to these thoughts.

  Anyway, I would enjoy your thoughts… as I always do.

  Thanks,

  Gordon

  Dr. Craig responds:

  I think you’re right, Gordon, that a great many intelligent and godly Christian leaders are Reformed, or followers of John Calvin, in their theology. I’m currently participating in a four-views book on divine providence along with a pair of Reformed theologians. It is evident from their contributions that, despite the intellectual puzzles raised by the Reformed view, they both embrace it because they are convinced that it most faithfully represents the teaching of Scripture on the subject, Scripture being the only authoritative rule of faith.

  Actually, I have no problem with certain classic statements of the Reformed view. For example, the Westminster Confession (Sect. III) declares that

  God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

  Now this is precisely what the Molinist believes! The Confession affirms God’s preordination of everything that comes to pass as well as the liberty and contingency of the creaturely will, so that God is not the author of sin. It is a tragedy that in rejecting middle knowledge Reformed divines have cut themselves off from the most perspicuous explanation of the coherence of this wonderful confession.

  By rejecting a doctrine of divine providence based on God’s middle knowledge, Reformed theologians are simply self-confessedly left with a mystery. The great 17th century Reformed theologian Francis Turretin held that a careful analysis of Scripture leads to two indubitable conclusions, both of which must be held in tension without compromising either one:

  that God on the one hand by his providence not only decreed, but most certainly secures, the event of all things, whether free or contingent; on the other hand, however, man is always free in acting and many effects are contingent. Although I cannot understand how these can be mutually connected together, yet (on account of ignorance of the mode) the thing itself is (which is certain from another source, i.e., from the Word) not either to be called in question or wholly denied (Institutes of Elenctic Theology, 1: 512).

  Here Turretin affirms without compromise both the sovereignty of God and human freedom and contingency; he just doesn’t know how to put them together. Molinism offers a solution. By rejecting that solution, the Reformed theologian is left with a mystery.

  There’s nothing wrong with mystery per se (the correct physical interpretation of quantum mechanics is a mystery!); the problem is that some Reformed theologians, like my two collaborators in the four-views book, try to resolve the mystery by holding to universal, divine, causal determinism and a compatibilist view of human freedom. According to this view, the way in which God sovereignly controls everything that happens is by causing it to happen, and freedom is re-interpreted to be consistent with being causally determined by factors outside oneself.

  It is this view, which affirms universal determinism and compatibilism, that runs into the problems you mention. Making God the author of evil is just one of the problems this neo-Reformed view faces. At least five come immediately to mind:

  1. Universal, divine, causal determinism cannot offer a coherent interpretation of Scripture. The classical Reformed divines recognized this. They acknowledge that the reconciliation of Scriptural texts affirming human freedom and contingency with Scriptural texts affirming divine sovereignty is inscrutable. D. A. Carson identifies nine streams of texts affirming human freedom: (1) People face a multitude of divine exhortations and commands, (2) people are said to obey, believe, and choose God, (3) people sin and rebel against God, (4) people’s sins are judged by God, (5) people are tested by God, (6) people receive divine rewards, (7) the elect are responsible to respond to God’s initiative, (8) prayers are not mere showpieces scripted by God, and (9) God literally pleads with sinners to repent and be saved (Divine Sovereignty and Human Responsibility: Biblical Perspectives in Tension, pp. 18-22). These passages rule out a deterministic understanding of divine providence, which would preclude human freedom. Determinists reconcile universal, divine, causal determinism with human freedom by re-interpreting freedom in compatibilist terms. Compatibilism entails determinism, so there’s no mystery here. The problem is that adopting compatibilism achieves reconciliation only at the expense of denying what various Scriptural texts seem clearly to affirm: genuine indeterminacy and contingency.

  2. Universal causal determinism cannot be rationally affirmed. There is a sort of dizzying, self-defeating character to determinism. For if one comes to believe that determinism is true, one has to believe that the reason he has come to believe it is simply that he was determined to do so. One has not in fact been able to weigh the arguments pro and con and freely make up one’s mind on that basis. The difference between the person who weighs the arguments for determinism and rejects them and the person who weighs them and accepts them is wholly that one was determined by causal factors outside himself to believe and the other not to believe. When you come to realize that your decision to believe in determinism was itself determined and that even your present realization of that fact right now is likewise determined, a sort of vertigo sets in, for everything that you think, even this very thought itself, is outside your control. Determinism could be true; but it is very hard to see how it could ever be rationally affirmed, since its affirmation undermines the rationality of its affirmation.

  3. Universal, divine, determinism makes God the author of sin and precludes human responsibility. In contrast to the Molinist view, on the deterministic view even the movement of the human will is caused by God. God moves people to choose evil, and they cannot do otherwise. God determines their choices and makes them do wrong. If it is evil to make another person do wrong, then on this view God is not only the cause of sin and evil, but becomes evil Himself, which is absurd. By the same token, all human responsibility for sin has been removed. For our choices are not really up to us: God causes us to make them. We cannot be responsible for our actions, for nothing we think or do is up to us.

  4. Universal, divine, determinism nullifies human agency. Since our choices are not up to us but are caused by God, human beings cannot be said to be real agents. They are mere instruments by means of which God acts to produce some effect, much like a man using a stick to move a stone. Of course, secondary causes retain all their properties and powers as intermediate causes, as the Reformed divines remind us, just as a stick retains its properties and powers which make it suitable for the purposes of the one who uses it. Reformed thinkers need not be occasionalists like Nicholas Malebranche, who held that God is the only cause there is. But these intermediate causes are not agents themselves but mere instrumental causes, for they have no power to initiate action. Hence, it’s dubious that on divine determinism there really is more than one agent in the world, namely, God. This conclusion not only flies in the face of our knowledge of ourselves as agents but makes it inexplicable why God then treats us as agents, holding us responsible for what He caused us and used us to do.

  5. Universal, divine determinism makes reality into a farce. On the deterministic view, the whole world becomes a vain and empty spectacle. There are no free agents in rebellion against God, whom God seeks to win through His love, and no one who freely responds to that love and freely gives his love and praise to God in return. The whole spectacle is a charade whose only real actor is God Himself. Far from glorifying God, the deterministic view, I’m convinced, denigrates God for engaging in a such a farcical charade. It is deeply insulting to God to think that He would create beings which are in every respect causally determined by Him and then treat them as though they were free agents, punishing them for the wrong actions He made them do or loving them as though they were freely responding agents. God would be like a child who sets up his toy soldiers and moves them about his play world, pretending that they are real persons whose every motion is not in fact of his own doing and pretending that they merit praise or blame. I’m certain that Reformed determinists, in contrast to classical Reformed divines, will bristle at such a comparison. But why it’s inapt for the doctrine of universal, divine, causal determinism is a mystery to me.

  So why do so many intelligent and faithful Christian leaders buy into Calvinism? I think that the sort of Calvinism represented by the statement quoted above from the Westminster Confession is a fair summary of Scripture’s teaching and therefore should be believed. It’s only when one goes beyond it to try to resolve the mystery by embracing determinism and compatibilism that one gets into trouble. So insofar as these Christian leaders are content to remain with the mystery, I think theirs is a reasonable position. The vast majority of them have probably little understanding of Molinism and so are just insufficiently informed to make a decision. A few years ago I spoke at Westminster Seminary in San Diego on middle knowledge, and half way through the Q & A period following my talk, one of the faculty said, “I’m embarrassed to say, Dr. Craig, that we aren’t even able to discuss this with you because we just are completely unfamiliar with what you’re talking about.” He was embarrassed that as a professional theologian he was so ignorant of these debates. By contrast, some theologians who belong to the Reformed tradition have moved toward Molinism. When I gave the Stob lectures at Calvin College and Seminary, I was shocked when the theologians at the seminary told me that they were all Molinists! I increasingly encounter people who are moving in the Molinist direction (both from the Calvinistic end and the open theist end of the spectrum!)

  So don’t be too hard on our Calvinist brethren. Offer them something better, and hope that they will embrace it.

  http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=8111

  
• Burning Lamp

  7 September, 2010 at 10:21 pm

  I don’t think it is being hard on someone to address damanging error – one should do so in love, but love for them and love for the truth and defense of it should be the motive. The Reformed Gospel is a false gospel, plain and simple.

  Reformed doctrine is an affront to our Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross. I am referring to the doctrine of Limited Atonement. Also, the notion that one has no choice in their salvation insults the precious Holy Spirit and the conviction of the sinner. The other petals of the TULIP are equally heretical, but for the sake of brevity, I focus on these two. It doesn’t matter if one is a 5 pointer or less, all of them are poisonous. I respect our well-meaning Calvinist friends for their zeal in refuting Romanism, and other discernment activities but they need to acknowledge the error of their own ways.

  Too many believers are willing to chew up the meat and spit out the bones with popular Reformed and Calvinist authors who mix truth and error. Such authors’ sincerity is not in question, but their biblical position is.

  

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