A while ago I went to watch Ron Martoia an Emergent “Transformational Architecture Specialist” at a Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa. The title of the seminar was the ‘Vertical Development and a Spirituality of Awareness’. Ron Martoia spoke about Logos and Mythos. In order to transcend vertically ↑ (up the Tree of Life and see through God’s eyes) you need to ← move away from the Word (Logos) and → experience (Mythos) God instead. If you are stuck in the Word (Logos) you end up ↓ stagnating and you spiritually dry up.
[DTW notes in green below]
Chase The Wave Maker
by Louie Giglio - 5/7/2001
I’d like to take you back to my college days – to my first journey to Mt Rainier. Having furiously studied the mountain in my geography class, I couldn’t wait until the day Rainier appeared on our agenda as my friend and I drove across North America.
We were headed for an amazing mountain, a place I had come to know quite well – or so I thought. Though I lived 3,000 miles away in Atlanta, and had never seen Rainier in person, I was foolish enough to believe I was an expert on this mountain because I’d mastered the information required in my geography lab.
Being a ‘map freak’, I was really into this assignment and eventually aced the test on Rainier in a big way! In fact, I was totally disappointed in the test because it didn’t even scratch the surface of what I’d learned about this 14,221-foot, snow-covered, volcanic cone.
Frustrated, I turned my completed exam over and wrote on the top of the back page, ‘Things I know about Rainier that were not asked on this test’! I proceeded to write on every blank space available.
Thinking I really knew Rainier, I was completely caught off guard when I finally stood before this majestic giant. I’d planned all along to impress my friend with the information I’d learned, but was shocked instead, and stunned in silence.
Mysteriously, I was reduced to tears and robbed of speech.
“I learned that day there’s a huge difference between information and experience. I knew so much about Rainier, but I didn’t know Rainier. The same is true in our relationship with God.” [Emphasis added]
[DTW note: In other words what Giglio is saying is that there is a HUGE difference between the Word of God (logos) and actually experiencing God (mythos). You can know the Word of God well, but that does not mean you know God. The problem with this statement is that, IF YOU ARE SAVED YOU KNOW WHO JESUS CHRIST IS. Because The Word of God is Jesus Christ - you CAN NOT separate the one from the other. The Holy Spirit is the one who gives understanding of Scripture. If a person is not saved then the Word of God will be meaningless in their lives and will most definitely seek other alternatives / paths to experience God.]
John 1: 1-2
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1: 14
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
It’s not enough to simply have our heads filled up with facts about him. God wants us to experience him at the deepest levels of our souls. [Emphasis added]
[DTW note: Giglio is saying that it's not enough to have your head filled up with facts about God through His Word. God wants us to experience Him instead at the deepest levels of our soul. And how do we do this? Through contemplative spirituality. If it was not so, Louie Giglio would know that he did not need this "experience at the deepest levels of our soul" as we have the Holy Spirit abiding is us when we are genuinely saved.]
John 14:16-27
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but you know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world sees me no more; but you see me: because I live, you shall live also. 20 At that day you shall know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. 21 He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas said to him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world? 23 Jesus answered and said to him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our stayed with him. 24 He that loves me not keeps not my sayings: and the word which you hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.
25 These things have I spoken to you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give to you: not as the world gives, give I to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
John 16:13-25
13 However, when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it to you.
1 John 2:26-27
26 These things have I written to you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which you have received of him stays in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him.]
God longs for us to come to the place where our experience of him transcends information and we see him as he truly is. In such a moment, we instantly know two things are true: [Emphasis added]
[DTW note: What a load of rubbish. Where is this in the Bible? No where. God longs for us to come to genuine repentance through His Son Jesus Christ whereby His Holy Spirit comes to abide in us. He longs that we may not perish due to disobedience and not keeping His commandments - His Word. He longs that we are born again, made new, washed spotless by the blood of Jesus Christ. Transcending information means that we transcend the Word of God. And Jesus Christ is the Word made Flesh. This means we transcend Jesus Christ. This Giglio talk is thoroughbred New Age Spirituality.]
- we know God is vaster than our wildest imagination,
- we know that the very reason we exist is to explore his infinite greatness. [Emphasis added]
[DTW note: We don't need some "transcending experience" to know that God is vaster than our wildest imagination because He says so in His Word, and the Bible confirms itself. The Holy Spirit that abides in genuinely saved Christians confirms it too as He leads us into all truth. (See scripture I mentioned above). And last but not least we were not created and we do not exist to explore God's greatness (universe, creation) within the deepest levels of our soul - this is pantheism. We exist to WORSHIP HIM and HIM ONLY.]
Source: http://www.worshiptogether.com/resources/article.aspx?iid=218129
Part 2 coming soon to a DVD near you.
So sad that this wonderful man is also falling for the emerging movement lies.
Great men will fall indeed!!
Hmmm You guys read far too much into what he is saying….
When I read this my first impression was that he is trying to get people away from an intellectual understanding of the Word of God and into a personal relationship with Him.
Of course that personal relationship cannot be outside the Word of God, but it is true that you can learn all about Jesus, God The Father and God the Holy Ghost and never really know them personally. We have to have a one on one relationship with our heavenly Father, through His Son, Jesus Christ, by the revelation of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost reveals Jesus to us (per the scriptures mentioned above)and if we have seen Jesus we have seen the Father.
I get that it is not biblical to look for experience beyond the Word of God, some kind of mystical draw down from the spirit realm that may or my not accord with the Word of God, but real Christianity must be experienced in our spirits otherwise we will just have an intellectual relationship with God and in reality that is no relationship at all. In fact we’re then walking in death because the letter kills but the spirit gives life
Of course our experience must be one that is by Faith, and in the will of God (ie according to the Word of God), but it must still be experienced by us -otherwise we are in a lifeless intellectual pursuit, appeasing itchy ears.
Craig
Ok, Craig, good stuff. That was so nicely said.
But there is a big difference between the peace, love, joy, and growth and yes experience when it comes to discernment and obedience and repentance of sin that is all part and parcel of having the most wonderful relationship with Jesus Christ vs the false feeling of peace, joy and love and eerie feelings and experiences that a false spirit brings.
So we are not reading too much into this. This is very serious. And people do not understand the difference. They think what what is happening and feeling is the Holy Spirit when it’s not… it’s ‘something’ else.
Being a Sci-fi fan all of my (almost 48 year)life, I can appreciate what Louie is pointing out. As vast as the universe is, God is BIGGER! I used to wish we could find life ‘out there’ and make contact. That would be so cool!! But now, as I have matured spiritually, I have come to realize that anything that takes my affection away from the Lord, and detracts my focus from being a witness of the Gospel to the world is wrong.
Psalm 19:1 Says the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament (the sky? space? the stars?) shows His handiwork, so Louie telling us God might be saying; “Come on! Build a bigger telescope! I have MORE to show you!” makse me smile.
All this being said, I AM leery of word-of-faith people. They focus on things over their Creator, and distort the Gospel, trying to add to the completed work of Christ.
John
>> I can appreciate what Louie is pointing out. As vast as the universe is, God is BIGGER!
But, that is not what Louie is really pointing out. There is another message he is tying to put across. Re-read it and go research contemplative spirituality – then come back and read all my articles on Louie.
Also see the article on Mark Driscoll (partner in preaching with Louie Giglio) who promotes Meditation and see the article on John Piper (Louie Giglio’s mentor) who is now a huge Rick Warren fan.
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