A last one. Jesus died for all of us. That tells me that we are to care for all and the whole flock and church. We are to blow the trumpet for the whole church to hear, and heed to the warnings.

Ezekiel 33:6-8 (Amplified Bible)

6But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, he is taken away in and for his perversity and iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand. 7 So you, son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore hear the word at My mouth and give them warning from Me. 8 When I say to the wicked, O wicked man, you shall surely die, and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his perversity and iniquity, but his blood will I require at your hand.

Nowhere does it say blow the trumpet to your local fellowship or own house only.

Well said thank you.

Craig

It is the responsibility of the Great Shepherd to guard the general church but I believe our mandate only extends to our local fellowship.

Oh really does it extend only to your local fellowship? So you care only about your local fellowship? Is this what the apostels did or the disciples? Now how is that Biblical, we are All to be brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ. We must become useful and helpful and kind to one another, tenderhearted (compassionate, understanding, loving-hearted), forgiving one another [readily and freely].

And

Take care and be on guard for yourselves and the WHOLE FLOCK over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you bishops and guardians, to shepherd (tend and feed and guide) the church of the Lord ..

We as christians are the church of the Lord and therefore also the WHOLE FLOCK.

Ephesians 4:31-32 (Amplified Bible)

31 Let all bitterness and indignation and wrath (passion, rage, bad temper) and resentment (anger, animosity) and quarreling (brawling, clamor, contention) and slander (evil-speaking, abusive or blasphemous language) be banished from you, with all malice (spite, ill will, or baseness of any kind).32And become useful and helpful and kind to one another, tenderhearted (compassionate, understanding, loving-hearted), forgiving one another [readily and freely], as God in Christ forgave you.

Acts 20:27-29 (Amplified Bible)

27For I never shrank or kept back or fell short from declaring to you the whole purpose and plan and counsel of God.28 Take care and be on guard for yourselves and the whole flock over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you bishops and guardians, to shepherd (tend and feed and guide) the church of the Lord or [a]of God which He obtained for Himself [buying it and saving it for Himself] with His own blood.29 I know that after I am gone, ferocious wolves will get in among you, not sparing the flock;

Where will you be Craig should your flock not be spared because the ferocious wolves will come in ?? Will you be willing to accept help from another flocks shepard? or even help a totally other flock??

It is our duty to warn the WHOLE church of any apostasy. Believe me it is rive. We are indeed in the great falling away times and are becoming fewer and fewer, the flock is getting smaller and smaller.

When you are in a meeting with other teachers do you only care about your local fellowship, then why would you even bother going there.

The shepherd doesn’t worry about any sheep fold other than his own

The Lord is our shepard and he alone are able to guard his WHOLE flock.

Psalm 23:1

1 The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.

I’m not saying it isn’t pervading the local churches, just that I don’t have to worry about what’s happening elsewhere unless I have my own house sorted out first.

Ok Craig then if you think it fair just go and do just that then.

Are you spreading the Gospel Craig? or only to your local fellowship?

Mark 16:15
And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach and publish openly the good news (the Gospel) to every creature [of the whole human race].

I believe the site is spreading the Gospel by what is done here to the whole world.

God bless you Craig

>> I also mentioned two incidences of Jesus “building a bridge”,

You are right I did ignore that. Please supply verses for these 2 occasions of “building a bridge”?

Hmm…ok… can I repeat what I said in my previous comment that got you so rilled up again: “I pointed out the contemplative spirituality the Louie Giglio follows. That was it. I never said anything nasty, I never condemned the man, I never called him names. You either stand for the truth 100% or your don’t and you allow Louie Giglio to lead youngsters astray.”

>> And as a matter of interest, I can’t see anywhere in your article which refers to the question of contemplative spirituality.

LOL, there is not just 1, there are 3 article and all 3 articles are about Louie Giglio delving into contemplative spirituality. I suppose if you have no idea what contemplative spirituality is then you can’t point it out. I understand. Go research what it is, will take you a few months to get a good understanding of how involved and deceptive it is.

Go to January 2010 archives
13: Louie Giglio – Chasing The Experience (Part 1)
12: Louie Giglio – Sometimes Silence is Loud
12: Louie Giglio – A Baptist with an Emerging Agenda

Are you a New Evangelical? Go read this article: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/03/29/the-new-evangelical-evil-fit-for-a-new-dark-age/

As for your comment to Elmarie about “Judgement must begin at my own house, to put it in more Biblical terminology.” So when you gonna start? You can’t come here and have a nervous breakdown and judge me because I pointed out deceitful errors that someone is teaching to people and leading them astray.

Besides we are command by God to test and point out people who preach false doctrine. Being non-judgemental is reserved for sin in people’s lives – we can’t judge people on that as no one has any right.

BUT I WILL, oh YES, I WILL expose Louie Giglio until everyone knows he preys on youth.

The Bible requires that we judge everything by the divine standard (1 Thess. 5:21).

We are to judge righteous judgment (Jn. 7:24).
We are to judge all things (1 Cor. 2:15-16).
We are to judge sin in the church (1 Cor. 5:3, 12).
We are to judge matters between the brethren (1 Cor. 6:5).
We are to judge preaching (1 Cor. 14:29).
We are to judge those who preach false gospels, false christs, and false spirits (2 Cor. 11:1-4).
We are to judge the works of darkness (Eph. 5:11).
We are to judge false prophets and false apostles (2 Pet. 2; 1 John 4:1; Rev. 2:2).

My background is not Calvinist.

For eg I don’t believe in “once saved always saved”, and the only predestination the Bible speaks of is “in Christ” ie we are pre-destined, but only once we are in Christ. I also believe that the preaching of the Word generates faith in the hearer which enables even an unsaved person to have the choice to become a child of God.

In particular, I want to respond to your comment re the sheep fold. What I mean by this is that we are only called to guard what actually impacts on our own local church. The shepherd doesn’t worry about any sheep fold other than his own and that is the example we have been given. It is the responsibility of the Great Shepherd to guard the general church but I believe our mandate only extends to our local fellowship.

I’m not saying it isn’t pervading the local churches, just that I don’t have to worry about what’s happening elsewhere unless I have my own house sorted out first. Judgement must begin at my own house, to put it in more Biblical terminology.

Hi Deborah

You are behaving in a very defensive and aggressive manner. I felt that I was quite fair in mentioning the few things i did and in no way meant to judge you. However your spirit is clearly contentious and your sarcasm not only unChristlike, but also uncalled for andcertainly not appreciated. I took the time to deal with some things whihc I thought would be taken seriously, but clearly, while you have no problem correcting eveyone else, you yourself do not wish for your character or motives to be questioned. That is a serious disparity which the Word of God warns against. No matter how mature we are in the Lord, we must all still be teachable, because none of us have “made it”

And as a matter of interest, I can’t see anywhere in your article which refers to the question of contemplative sprituality.
All I see is some semi-funny remarks about some people and their beliefs and a reference to the fact that others have been hangin around with others who have a less than glowing reputation. This is nothing more than gossip? Or am I misreading your statements.

And, of course, Jesus never hung around with people who had less than glowing reputations did he?

I also mentioned two incidences of Jesus “building a bridge”, which you seem to have conveniently overlooked in your response. Perhaps rather than ridiculing me, you could take the time to seriously respond to my comments

Your doctrine seems to be the Calvinist. Do you perhaps fall under Babtist or Grace Christian Church of John Macarthur?

My question is based on having a little knowledge about them. They are the only group I know of in my area who I still feel safe with in their biblical teachings.

>I just feel the Lord provokingIn fact the teaching is quite clear that we only have a mandate to oppose falsehood that actually enters the “sheep fold”, i.e<

Do you realize how much and at what speed the falsehoods has all ready entered the "sheep fold"

You know Craig the fact is we do not have to go and look for false doctrines any longer it is out in the open and rife . But I carry these verses very close to my heart.
Matthew 24 :4-8 (NIV) 4Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,[a]‘ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

I don’t agree with you on the devil here. The context is we are talking about believers who stray and have itcy ears. Teachers who go after money and more money and who lead the flock astry. Jesus was clearly talking about believers that will be blinded by His Father at the end times, as Isiah was given this prophecy by God and it will be fulfilled. Therefore it is not satan but God passing judgement the church who stray by blinding them for, they have not passed the test to remain true to and hold fast to Him and His Word.

as we read and understand.
Paul to Timothy:
1 Timothy 1:18-20 (Amplified Bible)18This charge and admonition I commit in trust to you, Timothy, my son, [a]in accordance with prophetic intimations which I formerly received concerning you, so that inspired and aided by them you may wage the good warfare,19Holding fast to faith ([b]that leaning of the entire human personality on God in absolute trust and confidence) and having a good (clear) conscience. By rejecting and thrusting from them [their conscience], some individuals have made shipwreck of their faith.20Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan in order that they may be disciplined [by punishment and learn] not to blaspheme.

Jesus to Andrew an Phillip and the crowd of bystanders:
John 12:35-42 (Amplified Bible)
35So Jesus said to them, You will have the Light only a little while longer. Walk while you have the Light [keep on living by it], so that darkness may not overtake and overcome you. He who walks about in the dark does not know where he goes [he is drifting].36While you have the Light, believe in the Light [have faith in it, hold to it, rely on it], that you may become sons of the Light and be filled with Light. Jesus said these things, and then He went away and hid Himself from them [was lost to their view].37Even though He had done so many miracles before them (right before their eyes), yet they still did not trust in Him and failed to believe in Him–38So that what Isaiah the prophet said was fulfilled: Lord, who has believed our report and our message? And to whom has the arm (the power) of the Lord been shown (unveiled and revealed)?(A)39Therefore they could not believe [they were unable to believe]. For Isaiah has also said,
40He has blinded their eyes and hardened and benumbed their [callous, degenerated] hearts [He has made their minds dull], to keep them from seeing with their eyes and understanding with their hearts and minds and repenting and turning to Me to heal them.41Isaiah said this because he saw His glory and spoke of Him.(B)42And yet [in spite of all this] many even of the leading men (the authorities and the nobles) believed and trusted in Him. But because of the Pharisees they did not confess it, for fear that [if they should acknowledge Him] they would be expelled from the synagogue;

We can only watch and pray, and warn others of the deception. The choice still remains with the individual to listen to warning bells.

Thanks for coming to judge me. Would you like 1 or 2 sugars with that.

I pointed out the contemplative spirituality the Louie Giglio follows. That was it. I never said anything nasty, I never condemned the man, I never called him names. You either stand for the truth 100% or your don’t and you allow Louie Giglio to lead youngsters astray.

Cheers

Firstly, I am mindful of the fact that I may be falling into the same trap as you are by responding to you, but I just feel the Lord provoking me to make a comment.

I belong to a little church in South Africa, that is joined in fellowship to a larger group of fellowships who believe the same doctrine and have agreed to fall under the same apostolic oversight. We do not believe that there is any new doctrine out there waiting to still be revealed except as may already be found in the Word of God. However, we don’t claim to know every thing and continue to seek God for more revelation within the confines of His Word.

I am a little concerned about one or two things I have noticed on this website.

The first is that the scripture is clear that we should not judge men or women, but rather discern their doctrine. Thus, personal attacks are not promoted or permitted in the Bible. Yet I see this often in the tone and content of some of the comments on this site.

Secondly, the Bible does not teach that we are to go looking for Doctrine or principles that are false. It does teach that we should know the truth because that will make us free. However, in knowing the truth, we are sometimes faced with false doctrine that comes our way and we are then called to defend or stand on the truth. In fact the teaching is quite clear that we only have a mandate to oppose falsehood that actually enters the “sheep fold”, i.e. the local Body of Christ where we are placed as it has pleased the Lord.

Thirdly, Paul writes that women are not to teach as she being like Eve, is more prone to being deceived, and yet there is teaching and correction being given by ladies? That just doesn’t add up

Fourthly, the scripture refers to the attitude with which our “brother” should be corrected – i.e. a spirit of meekness, considering ourselves, lest we also be tempted and fall in the same matter (pride comes before a fall) Furthermore, the intention should not be to write off the person, but to actually see them restored before the Lord. This is not the attitude here, which swings from mocking to aggressive, to accusatory, to sarcastic ridicule to outright rudeness and offensiveness.

I’m all for standing for the truth, but doing it like this is not how the Scriptures teach us it should be done.

Lastly, I am opposed to the false gospel that preaches that salvation is all about the needs and wants and desires (lusts) of the individual and not much about repentance from sin, forgiveness, the work of Jesus on the cross, and God’s love, mercy and grace for an unlovely undeserving world.

However, I disagree that worship does not involve works. Provided, however, they are works that are born of faith and not born of a desire to earn favour with God. Likewise, worship is not something that we do when we sing, but rather the lifestyle we live in service to God by obedience to His Word and i submission to His will. Which is not to say that we live right so that God will bless us – having done all of these things we declare that we are unprofitable servants who have merely done that which is our reasonable service before God.

Furthermore, Jesus did build a bridge to sinners. He was just much better at it tha we were and so didn’t need to spend so much time on it as we do. Take for example the women at the well. Why do you think he sat there? Why do you think he asked her to draw him some water? Why do you think he engaged her with conversation about her life. She actually thought he was flirting with her. Of course that was not his motive at all. He wanted to reach her in her desperate situation, but He did it by firstly catching her attention. That’s just one example. There are more.

There is a lovely principle displayed in the raising of Lazarus. When Jesus got to the tomb, why do you think he asked the people to roll away the stone? Could he not just have commanded it to move, or got Lazarus to appear on this side of the stone? After all he was about to raise the dead, it wasn’t as though that would have been a big deal to Him,

The truth is that there are some people with whom we have to do that come with baggage that “blocks” out the voice (Word) of Jesus and they have mental blocks that have been placed there by the Devil to blind their minds. We need to draw near to them, as did Phillip to the Ethiopian eunuch and “roll away the stone”. How do we do that? Is it by being super spiritual and sending them even further away from the Lord, or do we behave like them to make them feel more comfortable.

Actually I believe neither of these is the right answer. We still have to maintain our testimony, but sometimes we have to sup with sinners as did Jesus with Zaccheus before they can be won by the Gospel. I’m not saying we do anything but preach Jesus to them, and certainly psychology and social projects won’t heal the venom of sin, but sometimes you need to do those things so that people will listen to you for long enough to realise that you really have the answer. Sometimes you need to stop the bleeding before you can heal the underlying cause. Ultimately it’s about reaching each person in their specific situation, just as Jesus reached each one of us in our specific situation.

However the answer – Jesus – who is the way, the truth and the Life – will never change!

When you are finished send it my way and I shall post it. :)