Just to bring some perspective, hopefully, ihop prays the word. The Bible is full of prayers and ephesians 1:17-21, 3:14-21, colossians 1:9-14 are just a few examples. So why wouldn’t we pray what we’ve been given?
Like Jackson said, it’s taking The Divine Word of The Lord and praying it back to Him, because after all prayer is a partnership with Jesus. We don’t just take the weight ourselves, our place is to partner with whats on Jesus’ heart and join with Him, after all He has been praying and interceding for about 2000 years. I think He’s the one who know what He’s doin ;-)

Praise the Lord we can come boldly before the thrown of grace (hebrews 4)!
In Matthew 6, Jesus is teaching His disciples to pray. And He shows that we are to pray to the Father. John 14, but only through Jesus can we approach the Father because of our sinful condition.

You said “The focus of meditation is not Jesus Christ the Son of God. The focus or starting point of meditation is on anything else but HIM.”
But how else can we know the Son without the Word? We have to be rooted and grounded in The word with the wisdom and revelation that comes by The Holy Spirit.

Lord, grant us understanding and revelation of Your Word.

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You leave me very confused, on the one hand is IHOP-KC with very scriptural teaching, plus some rather questionable mystical things. On the other is you, the complete opposite in almost everything beyond basic catechismic beliefs, with some really good scripture points, but also some rather twisted ones. I believe that both of you are genuinely seeking God from your speech and actions, yet you come to such different ends. There are other things, the deep unsettledness I feel from your rather to-common il-logical statements and conclusions, yet for all the hype and seeming longing after God and working of the Holy Spirit at Onething ‘09 the rather poor (musically, vocally, and enthusiastically) worship at youth group touched my heart so much more with Truths of God’s Word. (“He sees the depths of my heart and He loves me the same” -Isn’t that amazing, God sees us fully, yet he loves us wretched things.)

Anyway, I’m still starting on that responses to the comments leveled at me, and maybe later will have the time to go through your dialouge on pre/post trib rapture.

A wondering sinner Saved by Grace:
Jackson
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I have edited and replace the word ‘through’ with to. Make sense? Great.

>> But we do not “pray through Jesus Christ to our Heavenly Father.”

Sorry I meant to say TO not THROUGH. We pray TO JESUS CHRIST as HE is our mediator to our Heavenly FATHER. That was a typing error and a bad one at that, my apologies.

>> “26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27^ And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will.” (Romans 8:26-27)

So yes ‘in the same way the Spirit HELPS US in our weakness” on what to pray when we just don’t know what to say at times. He abides in us and searches our hearts and gives us words to say that at that moment in accordance with God’s will. We do not pray to the Holy Spirit.

Right…next

Now this one I am correct on with no typing errors.

>> Jesus Christ is the Word made Flesh. John 1:1 “1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
The Word is Jesus.

Absolutely

BUT the concept of meditation is not Jesus Christ the Son of God as the focus on who they pray to, so repetition of words from scripture is not correct (the words, the scripture, the texts, the prayer itself, becomes the ‘mediator’.) Jesus is the Word yes, but we do not pray through the Word.

>> IHOP is right (I think they are) but that your discussion is meaningless.

And no they are NOT and neither is Mike Bickle and the history of IHOP and the rubbish that they preach and who they have accosciated with over the years is more than enough proof. What you ‘think’ and what the evidence shows makes what ‘you think’ meaningless.

Again sorry for confusion.

Now you can apologise :) Thank you.

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I agree when you say “The Holy Spirit will ALWAYS point us to Jesus Christ the Son of God for repentance of sin”

But we do not “pray through Jesus Christ to our Heavenly Father.” We pray (or can pray when we know not what to pray for) *through* the Holy Spirit. Not *to* but *through* the Spirit [of God] to God.

“26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will.” (Romans 8:26-27) (http://bit.ly/4CMcl0)

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Now I’m not even sure what point your trying to make about praying through the Scripture. . . The Scriptures are God’s Holy and Divinely ordained Words, it is God. (Jn 1:1 “1^ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”) The Word is Jesus, (So in a way you could say praying through the Word is praying through Jesus, something you seem to agree with that I disagree with for the reason given above.).

I’m not completely sure how IHOP defines “through” but I would guess it simply means praying Scripture, as in taking a verse or praise or a promise and repeating Gods words back to Him. Would you say that is un-Biblical or wrong?

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Signed:
a sinner, saved by Grace, struggling for the Truth: Jackson