Interesting that we try to wrap our minds around the mystery Paul talks about – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three in one. We can’t understand this with our puny human minds. The Holy Spirit is a Person. We can talk to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three in one. I’m so thankful for the Spirit of Christ who dwells in me. He lives IN me! I can commune with Him ALL the time. Using is inerrant word guarantees that I’m praying His will and not mine. Again, I’m so thankful. I’m sad how people hate their own brothers and sisters (guess who we’ll be worshiping God for eternity with) to the point of posting these unloving statements. I agree with Dakota – the western church is the only region of the body that doesn’t get the role of the Holy Spirit. Let’s not grieve the Holy Spirit – if He can be grieved, than He must have emotions – because He’s a Person.

You guys are all missing the point. Christianity is not about arguing over small issues within the faith. It isn’t about being prideful over the things we believe. It is about glorifying our Creator God, and spreading His gospel to the ends of the earth. I am only 17 years old, and I’ve seen enough of believers arguing on other believer’s faiths on this one page to make me sick. You’re all missing the point; love Jesus! Just do it! Forget about doctrine or theology issues, forget about so called ‘occult’ practices at IHOP-KC. Yes, for the record, I do believe that the Holy Spirit’s gifts are active in the Church today, but I know for people who can’t get past the idea of manifestations of the Spirit being real, it will never be real! Do you believe God can do miracles? Then let Him. My God is not a God in a box. He is all powerful, and because of His son I have a personal relationship not only with Him, but with His son and His Spirit. IHOP-KC does not have the intention of being a cult, nor do I think they are. They are a body of Christ worshiping their Father and finding joy in the gifts that He gives them. Take a second to look at the faiths of Christians who live in less ‘fortunate’ countries like Africa, and you will see a faith that is a lot more like IHOP’s than your own.

Annunk

Who are you talking too? Are there two Deborah’s here of what? I must be missing something.

I am completely against contemplative prayer. Asking someone to find scripture to repeat the Lord’s Prayer was not because I support contemplative prayer, but because I wanted them to find scripture to prove their point about repetition and I know they could not.

Anyhow, thanks for this great info on Beth Moore and how involved she is in Contemplative Prayer.

“Please go and provide a scripture where it says we are to REPEAT the Lord’s Prayer.”

Great point, Deborah. So answer this: I have Beth Moore on a Contemplative prayer CD saying she’s “unable to effectively touch God without praying Contemplatively”? And on this same CD, we’re told that “To do it, you must control your breathing – in and out, in and out slowly..allowing your mind to enter a state of “nothingness” or a “mental void”.” You tell me: Where is this in the Bible? Where’s the scripture that directs us to control our breathing when we pray, Deborah? Or to enter a state of mental “nothingness”?

I’ve got a good friend whose child fell into IHOP. IHOP advised this young person to completely CUT OFF 100% OF ALL COMMUNICATION with “Mom” when she dared to question Mike Bickle’s teachings. I’m telling you, that contemplative prayer is nothing short of an occult practice. You play with fire, Deborah, you’re going to get burned.

Lolly

So because AA meetings end their sessions with the lords prayer that now makes it correct?

Please go and provide scripture where it says we are to REPEAT the Lords Prayer.

You are trying to condone IHOPS contemplative prayer and that is wrong.

And yet, people repeat the Lord’s prayer all the time. Ever been to an AA meeting? It’s funny to me because they always end with it, at least the meetings I visited with my father.

The Hebrew word Hagah in Psalm 1:2 and Joshua 1:8 tells us to moan, growl, utter, muse, mutter, meditate, divise, plot, or speak…one of the meanings is to imagine. It can also be used to point out negative ways to hagah as stated in Isaiah 8:19: And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

I see this as a good way and a bad way to focus. I don’t take issue with people that repeat the Word over in prayer or even pray the Word, since we seem to not take issue with praying the Word by using the Lord’s prayer. Many songs and hymns repeat the word when we sing them. So, I don’t think the repeating is the issue or even the focusing, but what you are focusing on. What’s funny to me is that many of the people who take issue with this kind of thing have no problem going to the movie theater and “focusing” their minds on movies like Twilight or listening to and singing over and over songs with perverted lyrics.

And yes, Matthew 6 says not to pray with repetitions like the heathen do, but yet in Luke 18 we have the example of the persistent widow?

1And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
2Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
3And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
4And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
5Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
6And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
7And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

So, the widow came and bugged him all the time saying,, “Avenge me of mine adversary.” Seems a bit repetitive, huh? And yet Jesus used this as an example of God avenging His elect on the earth that cry out to HIM day and night.

No matter what conclusion we all come to, may we all come to the conclusion that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life and that no man come to the Father but by HIM.

Be blessed!

Jesus gives us an EXAMPLE by giving us the Lords Prayer on how to pray. He does not say repeat it, not does He tell the disciples to repeat others prayers.

I really appreciate your use of The Word to back up what you are saying =)
I think it’s super important for us as Christians to make sure we are taking The Bible for what it really says and be careful not to just pull out bits here and there to back what we are saying. The Bible is divine truth and ultimate authority and it will be proven in the end.

Just to bring some perspective, hopefully, ihop prays the word. The Bible is full of prayers and ephesians 1:17-21, 3:14-21, colossians 1:9-14 are just a few examples. So why wouldn’t we pray what we’ve been given?
Like Jackson said, it’s taking The Divine Word of The Lord and praying it back to Him, because after all prayer is a partnership with Jesus. We don’t just take the weight ourselves, our place is to partner with whats on Jesus’ heart and join with Him, after all He has been praying and interceding for about 2000 years. I think He’s the one who know what He’s doin ;-)

Praise the Lord we can come boldly before the thrown of grace (hebrews 4)!
In Matthew 6, Jesus is teaching His disciples to pray. And He shows that we are to pray to the Father. John 14, but only through Jesus can we approach the Father because of our sinful condition.

You said “The focus of meditation is not Jesus Christ the Son of God. The focus or starting point of meditation is on anything else but HIM.”
But how else can we know the Son without the Word? We have to be rooted and grounded in The word with the wisdom and revelation that comes by The Holy Spirit.

Lord, grant us understanding and revelation of Your Word.

the typing errors weren’t there when I typed it … your typing box jumped things around from time to time, too! –in case you didn’t know

Prayer : Dear God, I pray for Christians’ witness of our Lord Jesus and His Gospel . May it be in both word and deed! May it be a winsome witness, Spirit- Led, and with boldness, pFlower, agape` love, godly wisdom, and in godly timing . And I pray for believers to overcome any sense of timidity! In Jesus’ name! Amen! (II Timothy 1:7)