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	<title>Comments on: Prt 1 &#8211; A Biblical Appraisal of the Mosaic Congress &#8211; Mosaic Church, Johannesburg (4–5 Sep 09)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/22/prt-1-a-biblical-appraisal-of-the-mosaic-congress-mosaic-church-johannesburg-4%e2%80%935-sep-09/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/22/prt-1-a-biblical-appraisal-of-the-mosaic-congress-mosaic-church-johannesburg-4%e2%80%935-sep-09/</link>
	<description>A Genuine Christian Blog for Genuine Christians</description>
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		<title>By: Thomas Lessing</title>
		<link>http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/22/prt-1-a-biblical-appraisal-of-the-mosaic-congress-mosaic-church-johannesburg-4%e2%80%935-sep-09/#comment-4991</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Lessing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 09:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=7301#comment-4991</guid>
		<description>The &quot;stillness&quot; or &quot;silence&quot; the emergents promulgate is not the usual run of the mill meaning of &quot;silence&quot; but the complete passivity of the mind. An inactive or passive mind as opposed to an active, sober and vigilant mind is very dangerous because it sets the stage for demonic delusion, deception and even possession. The Nobel Peace Prize Winner and neurologist, Sir John Eccles, described the brain as &quot;A machine a ghost can operate.&quot; As soon as you let go or surrender your capacity to &quot;will&quot; or &quot;not to will&quot; (as in hypnotism) you actually surrender your mind to any other entity out there somewhere, in stead of having your own spirit (which includes your free-will) control your mind. The same passivity of mind can be induced by drugs, chanting, drumming, trance dancing, hypnotism, mandalas etc. 

The main reason the emergents want to achieve &quot;silence&quot; through contemplative meditation is to enter into the presence of God. Think of it, if we were able to enter into the very presence of God, we would have had no need of a Mediator Who claimed that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life and that no one can come to the Father but by and through Him. Would we have been able to enter into the presence of God if Jesus had been incarnated but not crucified? Never! because the Word clearly states that it is through His shed blood and His alone that we are granted permission to approach God in His innermost sanctuary in heaven (Hebrews 10:19-22). It is pure blasphemy to think anyone can enter into the presence of God through meditative silence or any other contemplative way. It is nothing else but the way of Cain. It is an outright denial and rejection of the cross of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:18).

Anyone who dabbles in contemplative disciplines such as contemplative prayer, silence, labyrinths etc. are playing with fire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;stillness&#8221; or &#8220;silence&#8221; the emergents promulgate is not the usual run of the mill meaning of &#8220;silence&#8221; but the complete passivity of the mind. An inactive or passive mind as opposed to an active, sober and vigilant mind is very dangerous because it sets the stage for demonic delusion, deception and even possession. The Nobel Peace Prize Winner and neurologist, Sir John Eccles, described the brain as &#8220;A machine a ghost can operate.&#8221; As soon as you let go or surrender your capacity to &#8220;will&#8221; or &#8220;not to will&#8221; (as in hypnotism) you actually surrender your mind to any other entity out there somewhere, in stead of having your own spirit (which includes your free-will) control your mind. The same passivity of mind can be induced by drugs, chanting, drumming, trance dancing, hypnotism, mandalas etc. </p>
<p>The main reason the emergents want to achieve &#8220;silence&#8221; through contemplative meditation is to enter into the presence of God. Think of it, if we were able to enter into the very presence of God, we would have had no need of a Mediator Who claimed that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life and that no one can come to the Father but by and through Him. Would we have been able to enter into the presence of God if Jesus had been incarnated but not crucified? Never! because the Word clearly states that it is through His shed blood and His alone that we are granted permission to approach God in His innermost sanctuary in heaven (Hebrews 10:19-22). It is pure blasphemy to think anyone can enter into the presence of God through meditative silence or any other contemplative way. It is nothing else but the way of Cain. It is an outright denial and rejection of the cross of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:18).</p>
<p>Anyone who dabbles in contemplative disciplines such as contemplative prayer, silence, labyrinths etc. are playing with fire.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Anthony</title>
		<link>http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/22/prt-1-a-biblical-appraisal-of-the-mosaic-congress-mosaic-church-johannesburg-4%e2%80%935-sep-09/#comment-2450</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=7301#comment-2450</guid>
		<description>Hrugnir, 

Doing a bible lookup with &#039;still/silent&#039; keywords to try and prove a point... bad, very bad idea. Did I mention that it is very irresponsible too? You must read a scripture in its CONTEXT. Did I mention that scriptures should be read contextually? 

Ok, lemme give you one - Zechariah (2:13), the overall context is Israel and the end times as well as the millenium. This book overall is prophetic (also in terms of the day of the Lord/judgement.) You cannot pull that verse out of that context. 

And the real snoozer using 1 Corinthians 14, most other translations (including the one you used but not so clear) says that the person WHO must keep SILENT is the ONE WHO GAVE THE TONGUE (if there is no interpreter HE MUST REMAIN SILENT speaking between himself and GOD) The scripture can also read as one or more instances of this occurance therefore the &#039;any&#039; and &#039;each of them&#039; definition.  

Dude, please can you try and not impose a meaning on the text? 

There is no scriptural basis for saying that God speaks if or when we are silent. God has already spoken - through his established word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hrugnir, </p>
<p>Doing a bible lookup with &#8216;still/silent&#8217; keywords to try and prove a point&#8230; bad, very bad idea. Did I mention that it is very irresponsible too? You must read a scripture in its CONTEXT. Did I mention that scriptures should be read contextually? </p>
<p>Ok, lemme give you one &#8211; Zechariah (2:13), the overall context is Israel and the end times as well as the millenium. This book overall is prophetic (also in terms of the day of the Lord/judgement.) You cannot pull that verse out of that context. </p>
<p>And the real snoozer using 1 Corinthians 14, most other translations (including the one you used but not so clear) says that the person WHO must keep SILENT is the ONE WHO GAVE THE TONGUE (if there is no interpreter HE MUST REMAIN SILENT speaking between himself and GOD) The scripture can also read as one or more instances of this occurance therefore the &#8216;any&#8217; and &#8216;each of them&#8217; definition.  </p>
<p>Dude, please can you try and not impose a meaning on the text? </p>
<p>There is no scriptural basis for saying that God speaks if or when we are silent. God has already spoken &#8211; through his established word.</p>
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		<title>By: Deborah (Discerning the World)</title>
		<link>http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/22/prt-1-a-biblical-appraisal-of-the-mosaic-congress-mosaic-church-johannesburg-4%e2%80%935-sep-09/#comment-2435</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah (Discerning the World)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 17:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=7301#comment-2435</guid>
		<description>Hrugnir

&gt;&gt;  Saying God speaks when we are silent does not mean he does not speak to others when we speak. Human being were given two ears and one mouth. While we should preach the gospel boldly and not stay silent when the Truth should be told, we’re not told to just babble all day long.

You’re describing silence as if it was an invention of Satan.

You can&#039;t be serious?  There is a HUGE HUGE difference between keeping quiet, being still, and silence vs practising meditation.  

Here is a good example of silence that has nothing to do with meditation:  &#039;While reading your comment I was shocked into silence&#039;. 

We HEAR what GOD is saying when we READ the Word of God.  And HE convicts us through HIS HOLY SPIRIT that dwells in us when we are born again.  Do you know what I am talking about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hrugnir</p>
<p>&gt;&gt;  Saying God speaks when we are silent does not mean he does not speak to others when we speak. Human being were given two ears and one mouth. While we should preach the gospel boldly and not stay silent when the Truth should be told, we’re not told to just babble all day long.</p>
<p>You’re describing silence as if it was an invention of Satan.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t be serious?  There is a HUGE HUGE difference between keeping quiet, being still, and silence vs practising meditation.  </p>
<p>Here is a good example of silence that has nothing to do with meditation:  &#8216;While reading your comment I was shocked into silence&#8217;. </p>
<p>We HEAR what GOD is saying when we READ the Word of God.  And HE convicts us through HIS HOLY SPIRIT that dwells in us when we are born again.  Do you know what I am talking about?</p>
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		<title>By: Hrugnir</title>
		<link>http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/12/22/prt-1-a-biblical-appraisal-of-the-mosaic-congress-mosaic-church-johannesburg-4%e2%80%935-sep-09/#comment-2432</link>
		<dc:creator>Hrugnir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 15:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningtheworld.com/?p=7301#comment-2432</guid>
		<description>Saying God speaks when we are silent does not mean he does not speak to others when we speak. Human being were given two ears and one mouth. While we should preach the gospel boldly and not stay silent when the Truth should be told, we&#039;re not told to just babble all day long.

You&#039;re describing silence as if it was an invention of Satan.

&quot;For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:... a time to keep silence, and a time to speak&quot;
(Ecc 3:1,7)

&quot;It is good that one should wait quietly for the salvation of the LORD. It is good for a man that he bear the yoke in his youth. Let him sit alone in silence when it is laid on him; let him put his mouth in the dust-- there may yet be hope;&quot;
(Lam 3:26-29)

&quot;If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.&quot;
(1 Cor 14:27-28)

&quot;Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!&quot; 
(Psa 46:10)

&quot;Be silent, all flesh, before the LORD, for he has roused himself from his holy dwelling.&quot;
(Zech 2:13)

I agree there can be an overt focus on silence over speaking, but silence is sometimes a VERY fitting response to God. We do want to HEAR of He actually has something to say, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saying God speaks when we are silent does not mean he does not speak to others when we speak. Human being were given two ears and one mouth. While we should preach the gospel boldly and not stay silent when the Truth should be told, we&#8217;re not told to just babble all day long.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re describing silence as if it was an invention of Satan.</p>
<p>&#8220;For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:&#8230; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak&#8221;<br />
(Ecc 3:1,7)</p>
<p>&#8220;It is good that one should wait quietly for the salvation of the LORD. It is good for a man that he bear the yoke in his youth. Let him sit alone in silence when it is laid on him; let him put his mouth in the dust&#8211; there may yet be hope;&#8221;<br />
(Lam 3:26-29)</p>
<p>&#8220;If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.&#8221;<br />
(1 Cor 14:27-28)</p>
<p>&#8220;Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!&#8221;<br />
(Psa 46:10)</p>
<p>&#8220;Be silent, all flesh, before the LORD, for he has roused himself from his holy dwelling.&#8221;<br />
(Zech 2:13)</p>
<p>I agree there can be an overt focus on silence over speaking, but silence is sometimes a VERY fitting response to God. We do want to HEAR of He actually has something to say, no?</p>
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